Why Getting A DIVORCE Isn’t A Failure In Your Love Life! | Esther Perel

And what's your thoughts on divorce? You know, you said over 50% are divorced the first time, then over 65 the second time. Do you believe that or do you think it's, you know, that people should experience divorce, they should go through that, or they think. Do you think they're being lazy, or do you think that they're just not committed to it enough or that they haven't tried all the different things to become better themselves and to see the good in their partner?

I would start differently. I. I would say.

Is that a bad question?

No, no, no, no, not at all. But I would say differently. I would think that the first thing that has to happen with divorce is to take away the concept of failure. As long as we still think that it is marriage for life, till death do us apart, when de facto, for the majority of couples today, it's still love dies, not till death do us apart.

That's when we divorce. We break up when love dies. Yes.

And then we think it's a failure. I think that a relationship that has lasted for 15, 20, 25 years, sometimes that's not a failure.

It's a huge success.

It's a long time. It's a good success. And they may have done certain things poorly and other things very well. I think a lot of people who divorce don't have the chance to actually appreciate how many good things they had in their relationship and to. And to what I like to call, you know, a Lagunette Paltrow, the conscious uncoupling. Meaning.

You have Catherine Woodward, Thomas. You know her?

Yeah. Goodbye. This is what I really am thankful for that we had together. This is what I take with me from what we had together. This is what I wish for you as we move forward. This is how I hope our children will remember us. That is a very different departure. And when you do that departure, you also have a very different continuity in your next relationships later than carrying bitterness and victimization and resentment and all of that. So I think that many people, something ends, you know, but they moved in together. They helped each other through school. They helped each other in the beginning of their careers. They helped each other when their parents were sick. They helped each other when their parent died. They helped each other with raising children. This is a lot of what marriage is about. They've had good marriages for all sake and purposes. And maybe other things have come in. And they were not necessarily always that nice to each other. And maybe they hurt each other and maybe they abandoned each other. Maybe they betrayed each other. Lots of Other things come in too, but this stuff all disappears because of the negative that then sits on it, making it look like their marriage didn't work out. It failed. Why? It failed because it ended. The only time it's successful is when they meet in the funeral home.

Interesting. So you think we should redefine or look at it differently?

Yes, I think that marriage has to be disentangled from the concept of death do us part. Yes. I think that divorce as the proof that the marriage failed is the wrong conclusion. It's not right. And it takes away from people decades of enormous endeavors and constructive stuff. It's not because a company closed that a company failed.

Right. They closed all the time. Interesting. So are you saying that since we're evolving and growing and having different needs and desires and things like that, that we should expect to start a family and then get divorced? And how is that going to affect our children's lives going forward? Should we be expecting more of that and be okay with just, well, now I've got a new partner and a new stepmom or stepdad, and this is how we have multiple families now. How is that going to be moving forward?

Listen, when there was no divorce, basically the ones who took the brunt of it were the women. The supposed stability of the family basically rested because the woman stayed put, made sure that the children had taken care of, were taken care of, and the.

Man went out and did whatever.

Many times. Many times. If they had the possibility, they certainly would. So I think that we definitely have a model today that is more focused on the adults. When you divorce, it's for the well being of the adult. It's not for. Unless there's real egregious issues in the family, it's not for the benefit of the children, it's for the benefit of the adult. A divorce is not the end of the family. It's the reorganization of the family. It's the end of the couple, but it's not the end of the family. And if the couple can disentangle with more integrity and more respect and more real thoughts about the children, not manipulation for the good of the children, then the family can actually reorganize better. And this is where it's going to go. So we can bemoan it, but the fact is we better think about a better way of doing it so that the children, the children of today, look, the millennials of today, 50% of them are either the children of the divorced or the disillusioned.

Yeah. Parents are divorced. Yeah.

And half of Them. Half of you men grew up with single mothers. So you've come out with a very different kind of emotional intelligence.

Right.

Because you actually were speaking to those mothers at the table the whole time. And they engaged you in conversations in ways that often did not take place if the father would have been at the table.

Right.

So you come. I think it's a very, very beautiful new generation of men, actually, that emerges out of this, that we don't think of it. They were at a table with mom, and when mom said, how was your day? She was not content with just, it was good or it was all right. She said what? She had another question and another question. And you've developed a kind of an emotional literacy that most boomers don't have a clue about. Men.

Sure.

That the millennial man really has available.

Interesting.

You understand. I don't think you've ever thought of that. Yeah.

That's great. That's great.

You see it. I mean, watch yourself at the table at breakfast. You know, there was a whole. That conversation did not happen when dad was at the table. Not that there was no conversation. It was a different conversation. So I think families are reorganizing and that's okay. Yes, yes.

It's not failures. It's not bad. It's not wrong.

We have blended families. We have single parent families. We have gay families. We have accordion families. We have long distance families. We have. The fastest growing model of couples in America today is the LAT Living apart together. That is the fastest growing. And it's a boomer model. It's the people after 55. Okay. Who are in relationships but don't live with their partner.

Partner. Interesting. Why?

Because they often have their own families, because they have their own living arrangement. Because one of them is still working. One of them is already preparing and downsizing. Lots of different reasons for why they prefer to have the benefits of the connection and of the relationship and their own space.

Interesting.

Or because they want to stay closer to their children or grandchildren while the other person has their grandchildren elsewhere? It's millions. Millions. Of course, the question of the LAT is what will happen when they get older. Do you have the same commitment to a person who is aging and getting sick when you have not lived with them and you have maintained so much of your own life? Because I meet you in my 50s, I have a whole life, and I'm not willing to let go of that life.

Yeah.

I'm willing to be with you and create a relationship and connect things, but I don't want to let go of my. I have a whole world of my own, you know, so that's the lat model. And we don't know what the lat model will do for public health. We know that men live better in older age when there is somebody next to them. They don't take good care of themselves.

Yeah, of course.

There's something really interesting about this country in relation to sexuality. There is an enormous taboo on sex education, rather than the understanding that it is actually the repression that will unleash a kind of sexuality that is often about smut and titillation. I think there's a number of things in a relationship that.