The New Food Pyramid: The Good, the Missing and the Hopeful with Reed Davis, HHP, DNT

Welcome to The Perfect Stool: Understanding and Healing the Gut Microbiome. This is your host, Lindsey Parsons, and today I'll be speaking with Reed Davis, double board certified holistic health practitioner and doctor of nutritional therapy. He's a globally recognized expert in functional lab testing and holistic lifestyle medicine. As the visionary founder of Functional Diagnostic Nutrition, Reid has pioneered the FDN certification course, which has empowered over 5,000 practitioners across 50 countries to take charge of their clients' health. With more than a decade of experience as health director at a Southern California wellness center, Reid personally guided over 10,000 clients to optimal wellness, giving him the experience and foundational knowledge needed to teach others to build their own health careers. But before our conversation, if you haven't yet followed or subscribed to the show, be sure to do so. And if you want to get transcripts of the podcast, pop over to my website, HighDesertHealthCoaching.com, and sign up for my newsletter. You'll also get my recently updated free ebooklet, Finding Your Root Cause Through Stool and Organic Acids Testing, when you sign up. And if you haven't yet done my quiz on which stool or functional medicine test would help you get to your root cause, you can find a link in the show notes and take that. Now on to the show. Welcome to the podcast, Reed.

Oh, thanks so much for having me here, Lindsey. It's a pleasure. I was looking to see where we could do some good in the world.

Always good to do that. So I had you on episode 115 and we focused on the effects of stress, sleep, and food sensitivities on the gut barrier, on gut barrier function. But today we're gonna be talking about the new dietary guidelines. So as somebody who deals with gut health issues and often suggests people try dramatically different diets given the current state of their gut, I'm curious what your 50-foot view is of the new dietary guidelines.

I'm happy to talk about that. You know, diet's one of the most important epigenetic factors there is as far as affecting one's health goes. We put that right up at the top of an all-natural drug-free solution is eating right. And so it's about time they did something, right?

Definitely. So what was your overall feeling about the new dietary guidelines?

I'm ecstatic. I mean, it, it's not gone as far as it could and, you know, it could always be improved. But the old dietary guidelines for Americans, let's say for the last number of years, decades, uh, has been completely upside down. And I think it's largely because the, those who would put the guidelines out there, in this case, uh, Health and Human Services Secretary and USDA, you got in cahoots to reveal these things and it's better for Americans. It's better for kids. It's gonna focus on more high-quality, nutrition-dense foods and things like that. Like, you know, they say eat real food. What a concept. And so, you know, I mean, you've been in this game a long time, right? How long have you known that that wasn't right?

Yeah, I don't think that's a big secret. It's not that people don't know they're supposed to eat real food. They just really like processed food.

It's true. And it, it's gonna take some new habit forming for some people. You know, so many stories over the years of people just, their entire health changes when they eat right for their bodies, for their, you know, genetics and what we call metabolic type. So it, you know, I'm happy to break it down for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll definitely get into those details. So one of the biggest changes in the new dietary guidelines was demoting whole grains to the bottom of the pyramid, which where they used to be at the top or the largest section. So I'm curious if people were actually eating whole grains as opposed to white flour and white potatoes and white rice, do you think that would've been a necessary step anyway?

Yeah. Even the so-called healthy breads and things like that and pastas, if there is such a thing, would be too much, you know, and not enough, not enough protein and fat. So absolutely. It was upside down. And the results are what you get in America. I have a friend, Tom O'Brien. He's really famous for some books on health and things like that. And he says that out of the top 30 civilized countries, America, in terms of health, in terms of health, top 30, America was ranked number 2 from the bottom. You know, like we're one of the most unhealthy countries, uh, out of civilized countries. And it's because of, I think, diet, because of who's been in charge of recommending diets. And I don't mind saying that it's those who would have monopolies and sell what's good for their companies. Bottom line, not what's good for our kids to eat. And I've got story after story. If you're interested in me telling a couple.

Sure.

But yeah, I want to make sure we answer that thing that the, you know, there's people who do perfectly well in America, uh, who don't eat any breads or grains or, you know, they're not really required.

I'm aware, of course, of, of, you know, things like the Paleo diet where you're not eating grains or even legumes. Is that That is accurate for paleo, right? You're pretty much just eating vegetable, fibrous vegetables or so. But I do find that when I look at people's diets, that it's very hard for people to get enough fiber if they're not eating some grains. They, you know, unless you're a very, very purposeful paleo person, you know, and you're getting those winter squashes and those sweet potatoes every day, or, you know, those kinds of things that, that if the typical person who's not super diet focused, that it's hard to get the quantity of fiber that we really need.

Yeah, definitely. The fiber's still a big thing and you can't eat just meat. Like no one says just eat meat. In my world, there's, there's the Paleo diet and there's even diets that do focus on that. But I think they, they still get their fiber from, cuz they, they always would sort of, if you, if you're on an all meat diet, carnivore diet they call, they still cheat and eat fiber or they're gonna get either, they're gonna get digestive problems if they don't. So it's really important to get the fiber, of course. And I prefer the green stuff, vegetables, roughage, my mother used to call it. Gotta have your roughage.

Yeah.

You know, 'cause it, and, and the Italians would call it antipasti, you know, and these kind of things. So you, you, you're definitely gonna throw a bunch of that in there. And that's way up in the pyramid. But the big, the big picture that changed is that the top, which is also the biggest section, is protein, dairy, healthy fats alongside your vegetables and, and some fruits, which, you know, there's some nuances in that. The bottom section, which is now the smallest, is your whole grains.

Right.

So yes, some would be okay. I, I have a little bit of like wheat free, you know, gluten-free toast sometimes around breakfast. You know, it gets me some, some of the fiber that I'm looking for. I put a lot of protein with it, but definitely you gotta have, you, you made a good point.

Yeah.

I mean, I just, it's, it's one of these things that like, yeah, in theory it would be great if everybody just ate You know, vegetables, beans, lentils, that kind of thing to get all their fiber, but that's just not how people eat, you know? So the inclusion of whole grains, I think, is important for the average person. Anyway, that's, that's, that's my opinion. But thinking about that, think about grain question for somebody with a family tendency towards increasing blood sugar as they age, not necessarily somebody who's pre-diabetic. What amount of actual grains, you know, meaning things like whole grains, like brown rice or quinoa or brown rice pasta or whole grain flours or whole wheat bread, if you tolerate wheat, do you think is a safe amount for an adult man or woman to consume without running into blood sugar issues?

Well, everyone's different. So what I recommend overall, before we even get to the food pyramid, is that people look at the amount of protein, fat, and carbohydrates on their plate at each meal and make sure it's balanced for their, let's call it oxidative rates, you know, for the way they burn fuel. So people burn fuel, some burn it faster than others. It's just the way you're born. You have your fast fuel burners, we call 'em fast oxidizers, you know, and traditionally You think of native tribes, they could be one way or the other. I have a cousin that lived up north with the Cree Indians. They were almost Eskimos, very, very fast oxidizers. If they didn't eat all like fish and game that they were eating for tens of thousands of years, or at least thousands and thousands, they would get sick. As soon as they went to Western food, they got sick. They all got obese, diabetes, prediabetes, and they They also got depressed, became alcoholics, and have the highest suicide rate in all of Canada, the Cree Indians. And it's because genetically speaking, they're supposed to be eating fish and game, which is plentiful up there still, by the way. Plenty of caribou and all kinds of fish and things. But when the Westerners came in, they brought with them By the way, for mining, gold mines, copper mines, things like that, they brought in their food with them, fast food. So if you're a Cree Indian and you're eating Tim Hortons donuts, you're gonna get sick. And so that would be the same for any fast oxidizer. You get sick if you eat too much of the breads and things like that, especially when it gets really highly processed. The more processed the worst. So, and it's really, really unhealthy. Not to say there isn't tribes in the world, the Quechua Indians come to mind from South America. They live their entire lives above 8,000 feet in the mountains and they eat corn and potatoes. Those things are very abundant there. And if you've eaten them for thousands and thousands of years, then they're perfectly fine. Your body has adapted to that kind of diet. It goes much deeper than what I'm telling you, even in terms of the minerals and things that are in the soils and stuff. So you need what you're born to eat. Problem is we're all mixed and no one knows what they're born to eat. You know, that's something that we help people figure that out, but it's really important. And, you know, with the, The current administration figured out we're really unhealthy. Well, let's look at what we're eating. And oh, it's a bunch of junk. You know, it's literally an upside-down pyramid. So they flipped it on its head and we'll see what shakes out. I'm very hopeful.

Yeah. Yeah. No. So clearly there are people. Yeah. Like same thing, indigenous people in Australia also same, same scenario, you know, they came in and fed them a bunch of flour and corn. Cooking oil and the fried breads and the, those kind of things. And they all got super sick and diabetic and yeah. But yeah, most of us are some sort of mix of some amount of European or some amount of Asian or, you know, Latin American or in the US or African American, you know, so, so we're all, we're all a mix in this country. So what you were talking about, the, the fast oxidizer, these are based on HTMA, hair, hair tissue mineral analysis, or?

It's one way to do it. An online test, people go to Root Tea Diet, they take a, a test there. It's, uh, a lot of questions about dietary habits, physical characteristics, and even psychological traits. 'Cause there's, there's other elements that get in the right diet. And so they don't have to do any testing. There's some, a lot of discussion about HTMAs and how close does it get to true oxidative you know, you can always do it and eat that way and see what shakes out. You should have more energy. You should have a higher sense of satiation. You should feel well-fed. Oh boy, what a great meal. I've got lots of energy. I can make it till my next meal without snacking. You know, your cravings go away and you even have a sense of well-being in some respect. So you feel fully satisfied. Nothing was missing. You have lots of energy to work or play, whatever it is, to get to the next fuel stop. And then, of course, some sense of well-being would be icing on the cake. And actually very appropriate. A well-fed person, fully satisfied, not craving anything, should be happy. If you're not happy, go soak your head. No, I'm kidding. You know, I'm just saying like, then you need to work on that. You know, there might be some other reason.

Yeah. You said that website was MT Diet, like mtdiet.com?

MTdiet.com. Yeah. It, it's, it's really, it's very scientific. It's been around for 40, 50 years now, and, and we've just been using that as a guideline. It won't tell you exactly what your percentages are, but it would tell you if you're fast or slow or somewhere in between what we would call a mixed oxidizer, which case you just adjust the proportions of your macronutrients on the plate. It, it, me, I'm a very fast oxidizer. So I can eat a lot of protein at every meal. And as long as you don't, you have to eat clean and there's all kinds of other factors, but a lot of protein and the protein I like already has fat built into it. So that because I eat meat. And so whether it's, you know, salmon or whatever it is, I don't eat chicken, but eat a lot of really good high-quality meats. And so I get my protein and my fat from that. And then I will also add the right amount of carbohydrates, usually very nutrient-dense. I love dark green vegetables and I can eat a lot of 'em. And if you do that, you'll find, let's say you did that for breakfast tomorrow, you know, some people just don't eat enough protein and fat in the morning. And so they're craving and they're drinking a lot of coffee and by lunch then they go, they overdo it at lunch. Different things can happen. But if you do it right, you will have, again, the 3 criteria are lots of energy, satiation for sure. You're not missing anything, you're not craving. And then of course, the sense of well-being. You know, I try to be happy every day no matter what, but eating sure Makes a difference.

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You've heard the word hangry, right?

I have.

You're hangry, you know, because you're, you're not nourished, right? You're just something missing. And, you know, it isn't just low blood sugar all the time. It's also has to do with what your body really needs. And so the macronutrient ratios are really important. That's what's missing from the food pyramid. They don't say anything about how much protein, how much carbohydrates, how much fats.

Right.

That that's a place it could go eventually, maybe. But at least it got protein and fat up at the top of the list for these kids. Kids are just at the mercy of advertising and eating garbage and parents too. It's what's convenient. No one wants to take the time to prepare meals. You know, when I'm cooking on the grill, I grill enough for 2 or even 3 days sometimes. So my leftovers are good as the meal. And I can eat them for breakfast and lunch and dinner because it's the same ratios. Try it. Everybody should try it. Get on a ratio that feels good and eat that every meal. Don't say, well, for lunch, I'm just going to have a salad. You know, if you're a fast oxidizer, you'll end up craving and hungry. Again, you think of those Indians. My cousin was a, was a priest and he went up north, like really far. And I asked him one day about what, what do the people do there when they get sick? Do they go to see a medicine man? And he goes, well, I'm their medicine man, you know, because he's their priest. I said, no, like if they get sick, like the flu or something. He goes, oh man, they're all sick. They're all sick. Because they quit eating their native diet, period. Obesity and diabetes and alcoholism, he said, were the most common things. And then, you know, what that can lead to.

Yeah.

Really bad social behavior and so on.

Yeah.

So you mentioned the fast oxidizer should be eating more protein or healthy fats. What about a slow oxidizer?

It's the opposite. You know, that's again, the Quechuan Indians down in South America. And there's many more, with that kind of bloodlines. Now we gotta go back to get to the original. You'd probably have to go back 500 generations. Well, no one can track that far back. You know, you have two parents. You didn't have a choice. You have four grandparents. You have eight great-grandparents, 16 great-great-parents. Now go back 500 times that and look at the top of that pyramid. It's a couple thousand people all contributing to your DNA. The nose on your face, the hair on your head, if you have any. Yeah. And the diet, what's the right diet for you? It's bread in the bone. And you can eat that way, or pay the piper. And look how sick we are.

Yeah.

We're not eating that way. And so, can't, it's too hard nowadays, unless you're tribal. If you're a Ketchum Indian, you could probably know what great-great-great-great-great-great-granddaddy ate. Same thing you're eating if you're healthy. You could go to the Bantu Indian tribe in Africa, very, very, very dark-skinned, very healthy people with straight white teeth, 'cause they still eat what their great-great-great to the 40th power great-grandparents ate. They eat the same thing. And it applies not only, we're not talking about the pyramid now, but kind of the concept, um, Not only would that give you the right percentage of protein, fat, and carbs, but the right sources, the, from indigenous foods, what was available all those years ago, and then whatever was in the soils. So the, we have vitamins, minerals, we have essential fatty acids, we have antioxidants, we have trace elements, phytonutrients, and really important constituents that were designed to use all of our bodies don't have to be taught anything. They, and so then you'd have that kind of a, the micronutrients would also match your genetics. So if you want to live to your genetic potential, be the best that you could be, then you got to eat like that and you have to figure it out.

I do these Pure Insight Reports with people's genes and, and they do spit out some results, you know, certain genes saying, you know, you're gonna do much better with a high protein diet. Your glucose is gonna be much better managed if you exercise regularly, or you have, you know, the genetics of an endurance athlete or things like that seem to pop up a bit. I mean, it's, it's obviously not complete, but it's a little bit of information that people get. So anyway, but yeah, people can go to that website and look at what their ideal diet might be based on what they answer and, But let me move on to, uh, talking about fats a little bit. So one of the stark changes of the new dietary guidelines feature is a change in the recommendations on fats. Can you describe what those changes are and what you think of them?

Yeah, sure. More fat would be more energy and better balance, but it's not so much just fat as the type of fat. So the recommending now, of course, very high-quality fats and not the crappy oils that we're being fed. You know, if you go to a hospital today and look at what's on the menu, it's atrocious, the amount of seed oils. My wife and I use a, it's called Seed Oil Scout, SOS, Seed Oil Scout. It's an app you can get on your phone and it doesn't have every restaurant, But you can go to it and it'll, it'll know where you are. There's a GPS in there and it'll tell you the good restaurants that have, are pretty much seed oil free. Some restaurants are seed oil free. They'll use only avocado and coconut and maybe some tallow and things like that. They're, that's a good kind of fat that really your, your body knows what to do with that. When it comes to seed oils, it not so much, you know, you're not, that's not bred in your bone. And so when it comes to trans fats, we don't even want to go there. They're just toxic.

Yeah.

And there's other ways to break down oils, you know, omega-3, 6, 9. Omega-3s generally anti-inflammatory, omega-6 more inflammatory. So seed oils, mostly omega-6, are inflammatory. So if you have joint pain, just you bloated, you know, on your face and just whatever, you have aches and pains from inflammation, seed oils make it worse. I guarantee it. That's how it works. So I'm glad you mentioned fats. There's, uh, just, we're up against what's convenient, what's cheap, what has longer shelf life. Things like that. It's gonna be a long time before, for instance, any fast food restaurant starts using good oils. They use what's cheap and what has the longest shelf life, which is what? Trans fats. And even if they're using seed oils, they're using the wrong ones, you know?

Yeah.

Avocado is really good. Yeah, coconut. Those are both seeds, avocado seeds, and coconut is actually a seed, and you know what I'm saying?

Right.

So I think it's really important, as I said originally, the right percentage of protein, fat, and carb, and the right sources.

Right.

So very important.

I deal with a lot of clients with hydrogen sulfide, SIBO, who react badly to saturated fats. And I also have seen a lot of gut tests from people on high fat and high saturated fat diets like ketogenic diets. And honestly, their gut microbiomes are pretty terrible. Like mostly dominated by pathogens and opportunistic pathogens. So I'm just curious if you've seen the same thing.

Yeah. Again, you need, you need the right kind of fats and some are not only inflammatory in terms of the joints and muscles and other tissues, it would include the lining of the gut. And so there's another thing that made the cut when it comes to, you know, the gut made the cut. They, they mentioned in the new pyramid, that considering gut microbiome is really, really important. And the previous dietary guidelines never mentioned it. And you know, we run tests. It's what I do. I teach a course in, um, so we look at these mucosal barrier assessments. So that's not news to us. In 2 and a half decades, I've seen all kinds of gut dysfunction and everything that can turn into, which is worse. And helped correct it using the right diet. It's just not even a question. You can live yourself out of whatever you've lived yourself into if you have time and dedication. You know, if it hasn't gone too far. There's some people, I mean, they've gone so far as to really ruin receptorship, all these different things that are involved, the ability to digest, the ability to actually break down and absorb food properly. And of course, once it gets in the body, how do you detoxify the body? All kinds of things come into it. But again, I've got concerns about the pyramid, but it's definitely going in the right direction. You know, not once do they mention testing. I think it's a big mistake. Or at least it's an improvement that we're still waiting for. They don't mention food quality. They just say, they don't mention organic versus conventional. Big mistake, or at least, again, a room for improvement. They don't mention grass-fed versus grain-fed when it comes to meats, beef especially. That's an area for improvement. They don't mention wild-caught fish versus farm-raised fish, which is really, I think, incredibly important. So these distinctions matter. The fatty acid profiles, for instance, is horrible. And, and with farm raised fish and with grain-fed beef and with conventional non-organic vegetables, the presence of pesticides and antibiotics, and that, that's all yet to be widely distributed. I don't see the government getting too involved.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely room for improvement there. So let's talk about protein for a bit. So, you know, I listen to a whole variety of podcasts and hear a range of protein recommended. What is the, what do the new guidelines say and what would you recommend for minimum, maximum protein consumption?

With respect for the metabolic typing and genetic requirements, I would say at least half of your plate should have some kind of protein and some fat. And then what would be really cool is if everyone would just start there. If you're not sure, like, you know, we test, we go to emptydiet.com, we get, they give you the starting percentage. Wherever you start, if it's 50/50, 50% protein, fat, 50% carbs, all high quality, you'd want to use organic and all the things that we just mentioned. But what you'd know from, you start to feel better, start to lose a few pounds, your brain fog would clear up, your cravings would go away, your sense of well-being may return potentially if you then, from that 50-50, start adjusting it up or even down. Not too many Quechua and Indians around here that could live just on potatoes and corn, but, you know, maybe you've got some slow oxidizer genes in you, but you would then go, let's say you start at 50-50, then go up, go to 60-40. If it works even better, ah, you're onto something. This is your own test. If you go from there to 65-35, you might find you do even better. Boy, I've really got a lot of energy. I can get all the way to my next meal with no snacking in between. My brain feels good, feeling good. You might try 70%. All these things would be adjusted, by the way, depending on the amount of activity. Work on a farm, you're probably gonna eat some more potatoes at nighttime. You know, you need, you need that store of the carbs, but you get my point that it, it's really an individual thing. Their recommendation, the new, um, HHS guidelines, which was backed up by the, the Food and Drug Administration, says something like 1, 1.5 grams of protein per kilo. So I don't know why they use kilo. So for a 150-pound person, you'd be looking at 85 grams of protein a day or something like that. Yeah. So, I mean, we don't use formulas like that. We use what it looks like on the plate because it's much easier. And then you can judge. We do give people, matter of fact, with that website I just gave out, you would get your diet, some, some menu advice. You know, you'd find out if you're fast, slow, somewhere in between, and you would get the percentages. They give you the percentages of each plate. They give you some DietCheck record sheets, which you can track. They're just pieces of paper that have breakfast, lunch, dinner, and what'd you have? You just write it in real quick, a little, and then over on the right-hand side is how you feel. Negative, things like tired, unfulfilled, craving, cranky, well, that wasn't a very good meal for you, was it? But if you feel solid energy and a lack of cravings and sense of well-being, then, well, that was better. And you can actually fine-tune it. This is why health coaches are so important these days, in my opinion. They can help you, walk you through that stuff.

Yeah.

What do you think about that?

Yeah, no, I mean, I, I was always worried, like, am I getting enough protein? 'Cause you know, I keep hearing these recommendations, like minimum, it's like 1 gram per pound of body weight, I think. But then I heard some—

it's a little more, it's like, it's up to about 1.2 to 1.6, something like that. So I would, that rounded off about gram and a half.

Yeah. I mean, I, I weigh 130. 130, and I couldn't even begin to eat 130 grams of protein in a day. Like, if I ate that much protein a day, I would be, I mean, it would be, I'd be eating nothing else.

No, no, it's, it's, I'm sorry, it's 1.2 to 1.6 per kilo, which is 2.2 pounds. Yeah.

So, right, right. Okay. Yeah. So it was like more like 0.7 to 1 or something like that grams per pound of body weight. Yeah, I don't know. I, I, I, I took somebody's recommendation and I think it came out to something like 90 grams and I thought no way I'm even getting 90 grams of protein because I might only have one meal with like a really solid portion of protein and maybe lunch is like a little bit smaller and breakfast is just like one egg. So that's 6 grams, but I couldn't even eat 2 eggs and I, I just get stuffed and gross with what, what else I'm eating. But anyway, I added it all up. I went into Cronometer and I added it all up. And I was like, oh, I actually am getting like 85, 90 grams of protein a day. I was, I was worried because I wasn't counting. There's a little bit of protein in vegetables. There's a little bit of protein in grains. Like, it's not like there's none. It's just, you know, a gram or two here, a gram or two there. It added up. So I was okay. I was glad to see that.

Good. How did you feel doing that? I mean, and how was your weight and how was your mental clarity and, and things?

Yeah. I mean, I don't have issues with weight. I don't have issues with mental clarity. But I have post-infectious IBS, so like I don't always feel great after eating because I, there are periods where I'm, have recurrent SIBO and I bloat. So, you know, it's not the kind of thing where I'm like the best test case for anything diet-wise, but, but energy and all that. Fine. Yeah, no, no issue.

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You might, you might be the perfect test case because not, see, your body doesn't have to be taught anything. Every cell and tissue and organ, you know, knows what its job is. It just needs to be fed right. Again, the macros, protein, fat, carbs, and the micros, vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, antioxidants, trace elements, and so on. And it'll know what to do. So, but when we have, say, negative influences, whether it's the environment or the way you think or trauma, accidents and things, bad things happen. So you get out of balance and demands are different. And then what you said about the grams, if you're, if you lean towards fast oxidizer, a few more grams of protein. If you lean towards slow oxidizer, It would make you sick. You wouldn't feel well at all. It's like this. If you have a bonfire, a big fire, you're fast oxidizing. You're burning up the fuel. You're burning up the fuel. Well, carbohydrates are like paper. You can't throw paper on a bonfire.

Oof.

It's gone. You know, you throw big logs on a bonfire and they burn for a long time. Very solid, that would be protein and fat. So you look at those Eskimos, they're super fast oxidizers. You gotta throw big logs on the fire. They can eat just blubber and some meat. And the only carbs they get would be seasonally and eat some of those, put on a little weight for the, for the winter, you know. If you just gave them, doesn't matter how good the bowls of fruit and vegetables you gave them, They'd always be hungry, you know. And the same thing, those South American Andes natives would, they couldn't eat like that. They would, they wouldn't be able to move. You know, they couldn't burn it. You know, they do well on paper diet, tubers and corn and low-hanging fruit, I guess, you know, whatever. And milk, they do pretty, actually pretty good on goats and llama milk and stuff like that.

Yeah, let's talk about milk and dairy cuz you know, as a gut health person, that's one of the first things that I'm, you know, gluten, dairy, those are the two sort of most inflammatory, shall we say, or irritating to the gut, difficult to digest things. So a lot of the people I work with are, are dairy-free. I'm dairy-free for the most part because I'm lactose intolerant and with recurrent SIBO, dairy is literally the worst thing I can eat. I feel bloated, I feel terrible. But obviously, you know, they're, they're high in the dietary guidelines. They're, you know, one of those things you can't even get a school lunch without putting a thing of milk there. What do you, what do you think about dairy in terms of people with gut issues versus regular people who don't have gut issues and, and everything in between?

Well, dairy for cow dairy for a lot of people is gonna create a lot of mucus and problems. And so that's besides the ones who are also lactose intolerant. Which means they don't have the, the lactase enzymes to break down the milk sugars. But milk, you know, milk can be irritating. It has protein. Casein is fat, you know, milk fat. And it has carbs as well. The, it has the sugars, the lactose. So there's, there's 3 different ways you can be eating wrong just by, it depends how you handle that stuff. I do agree with the, New Pyramid's idea of higher fat content milk. Because if you're going to drink it, you might as well get something decent out of it for energy. And, you know, so full-fat dairy, not the low-fat junk we've been fed for decades. There's nothing to say that's any good for you whatsoever that I accept. It doesn't mean you can do unlimited saturated fats either. You don't want to get more than a certain percent of your calories. And again, the fast oxidizers could probably do 20% and slow oxidizers, um, less, maybe only 10% or, but you gotta have some. So saturated fat, milk, milk has plenty of it. It's actually very nutritious for, for baby cows. So it can't be all good, bad, right?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I, also get all mucusy with the dairy. And that is, yeah, the single— I had acid reflux until I stopped eating dairy. I mean, it was the single best thing I pulled outta my diet, but boy, it is really hard to go eat anywhere. You know, restaurants, so many dishes are, they, they're like, oh, they're so happy to mark it's gluten-free, but every single dish has dairy. So, and, and that's the worst thing for me. So it's frustrating if you're, if you're dairy-free and react badly to it, cuz even, even lactase enzyme and It's hard to go out.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's hard to go out. It's hard to eat at anybody's house. It's just, yeah, it's hard.

Well, more and more, the more we demand it from our food vendors, the more you'll find it. There's also some people who seem to do okay on the unprocessed, you know, the unpasteurized.

Raw milk.

That's being sort of bandied about is better for you. Probably is, but I still don't drink milk.

Yeah, it didn't make a lick of difference for my lactose intolerance. I'll tell you that much. 'Cause I tried for a while and there's all sorts of people out there claiming things like, oh, you drink raw milk and you won't have any problem digesting it. I'm like, yeah, no, not true.

Oh, that's silly.

Yeah, of course. Or, or you eat yogurt and that's gonna cure your lactose intolerance. Also, no, that's not a thing.

Yeah, it's hard for people 'cause we do food sensitivity testing as well. Pretty much every single client gets a food sensitivity test. Because everyone has some. Everyone has some food sensitivities. The question is, how much of those sensitivities affecting your health? Are they contributing a lot to your dysfunction, whatever it may be, or are they contributing a little? Well, we test everybody and we find when they eliminate that food that, boy, that was like the major contributor. We call it a contributor to metabolic chaos. And it's really a valid term being used more and more often. What causes metabolic chaos and all the downward spirals and the cascade and resulting in dysfunction and, and disease and symptoms occurring. So, you know, food's huge and dairy's one of those that I don't know too many people that it's really good for that just thrive on it. More dairy for that one. Not, not in America.

Yeah. So I've been thrown though by the whole C15 coming out because that's a fat that's mostly in dairy and some fish. And you know, they've done all this research. It sounds like everybody's supposed to have certain levels of it that they, you know, healthy aging, the whole thing. So now I'm kind of like, are we supposed to be eating dairy fat? Like I'm, I'm okay with ghee, so you know, I could get it that way without getting all the all the lactose and the casein and everything else. So any thoughts on that?

Yeah, ghee. There's a, people use ghee, you know, it's clarified butter. So it doesn't have the other, it's just the fat. And I'd rather use tallow myself, which is what I, I cook in often enough. Tallow and olive oil and some coconut oil and avocado oil seems to agree with me pretty well.

Yeah.

Although none of my ancestors knew what an avocado was, so I don't know how, I don't know how that works.

Yeah. Have you heard of the Zero Acre oil?

What is it?

Zero Acre. It's a high in omega-3. It's produced by bacteria fermenting sugar into an oil that's high in omega-3s and doesn't get badly affected by heat if you cook with it. Like, I think it's good till like 450 degrees.

It's a good temperature. Cook things very fast at that temperature. And it's called Zero—

Zero Acre.

Zero what?

Yeah, Zero Acre, because they're not using any land to create it because they're using bacteria to produce it.

Oh, I see. Yeah.

Yeah. That's something I use for high-heat cooking if I need to.

Yeah, Zero Acre Farms. Very— I'll look it— I'll look that up. Yeah. I'm all for it. I actually just invested in some transformation farms that you can buy conventional farms and turn them into organic farms. It takes 3 years, but the produce is so much higher quality. It sells for more. Organic food is more expensive. It's funny because you're getting less for your money. You're not getting all those pesticides and herbicides and rodenticides and all the other things. But, um, yeah, more expensive, much more creative ways to keep the bugs off and these kind of things. Yeah. So that's, that's really important.

Hey, this is Lindsey here. Just letting you know that if you're tired of dealing with digestive issues like bloating, indigestion, soft stool, diarrhea, constipation, reflux, IBS, IBD, or the numerous health conditions that come about when your gut is off, like brain fog, weight gain, UTIs, fatigue, mental health issues, or complex conditions like fibromyalgia and ME/CFS, that's my specialty. With my 3 or 5 session gut health coaching packages, we'll discuss different stool and functional medicine tests to find out the root cause of your symptoms. I'll interpret the results and provide clear explanations, empowering you to make informed choices for your gut and overall health. And together we'll develop a customized action plan based on your test results so So you can find relief and regain your health and vitality. I come from a functional medicine perspective, trying to incorporate the latest peer-reviewed research and educating you on protocols used by functional medicine practitioners, but devoting lots of time and support to my clients the way a doctor simply can't. If you're interested in a 3 or 5 session coaching package, you can sign up for complimentary 30-minute breakthrough session, or if you can only afford one appointment at a time, you can book an initial 60-minute consultation. Links for those are in the show notes. Now back to the show.

And so your health is pretty good, you would say, Lindsey, since you changed your diet?

Oh, I mean, definitely better. Yeah, definitely better. I mean, it's a, it's always a work in progress, but good. But yeah, no, I, I, I come out well on, on tests for the most part.

And you feel good and yeah, I feel good.

I mean, a familial tendency towards high cholesterol, familial hypercholesterolemia, so Yeah, I think I'm one of those people that doesn't do so well with too much saturated fat. Also just from the, yeah, I don't know, gallbladder maybe doesn't, doesn't handle it so well. I, I tried the ketogenic diet once for like a month and I started having pains, shooting pains in my body. So I was like, this isn't good for me.

Yeah. And well, you know, I probably would recommend some lab work around, uh, liver function and, you know, the gallbladder needs to flow very freely. You can't have any congestion. You do gallbladder. Yeah.

No, I did a little kind of gallbladder cleanse thing.

Yeah. Good. You don't want to lose that.

Yeah. No, I have no intention of losing my gallbladder.

You know, you don't get extra parts, do you?

You don't get extra parts. And some people think that that's a, that's a disposable part, but definitely never seems to solve the problem when people get rid of it.

I had a patient many years ago who said he came in and he had some gallbladder digestion different. And he said that he went to his GI guy and they said, oh, we'll just take your gallbladder out. You don't really need that anyway. And ended up saying something like, that's our bread and butter diagnosis and treatment here is gallbladder removal. And it's, uh, it's kind of insane. I mean, bread and butter. I mean, that's how they make their money is by taking them out. But, you know, we, we tried very hard to, to save his gallbladder. But he couldn't maintain the discipline. You know, he still wanted to eat wrong.

Yeah.

And so he ended up paying the price, you know?

Yeah. I've just learned that I can't eat things anymore like pork belly, like things that are super high saturated fat. Like that's just gonna make me feel absolutely miserable. So I avoid those foods. But occasionally you do happen to find yourself eating a meal that was like just way too high in saturated fat. And, you know, feel miserable.

Yeah. Pork belly's very obviously almost all fat.

Yeah.

Would require a lot of digestive juices from the gallbladder, the bile.

Yeah.

Number one. I mean, if you really love the taste, you could probably take some ox bile with it and light paste.

I could, but I don't, I don't eat it that often that I'm carrying around ox bile.

It's not on everybody's menu for sure.

But you know, if you just had, you know, but occasionally you go to a restaurant, it's good and you're like, oh, we ordered that, but I know I'm going to regret it.

Take your, take your ox bile with you. And lipase, you know, lipase is from the pancreas. They come together in the common duct before they go into the duodenum there to break down fat. And there's signals when you eat fat, your body signals fat's coming and you'll you'll start to release the bile and the lipase, and you'll be able to break it down. So, and if you're not doing that, you could end up with, it's kind of easy to detect. They call it steatorrhea, which is light-colored stools that float. And, and you'd know you're, you know, you gotta watch your fat.

Yeah. What about light-colored stools that don't float?

Yeah, the, I think, I think the floatiness is maybe a better indicator and that light colored could be something else. But you know, that maybe there's just enough going on there where they're not floating. But the, the common symptom of poor fat digestion and breakdown would be, um, the light colored floating stools. You know, it might not even be that light and other things would affect it. These are guidelines. These, those aren't real tests. You know, we have tests. We can do a, a stool test. We can do a urine test and figure out a lot of stuff going on with people. We do saliva testing, of course, and blood work, you know, all the things looking for what's—

What stool test do you like?

You know, I like the old-fashioned ones where they actually had human beings looking at the stool, looking at it under a microscope, you know, good microscopy, trichrome staining. Antigen testing and culturing, where you had to have a person look at the kind of fuzz growing in the Petri dish. They would do like 7 or 8 Petri dishes per stool sample. And so it's really hard and expensive to find that anymore. So everyone now is using the, you know, the DNA testing, the testing by PCR, and which is all done by machines. And it's accurate. It looks for parasites, bacteria, funguses, viruses. It also does functional analysis like elastase and these kind of things that would tell you functionally what might be off here and there. And that's what people are using now, the GI-MAP from DSL. It's a good test. Again, it's not the old-fashioned way, but it's, it's fast and it's cheap. So people are using that. Could tell you a lot, especially on the pathogen side. You can, find people with some serious bugs. That's not normal.

Yeah. I've stopped using the GI Map because I just find it doesn't have as much information as some other tests. Like, like I use Tiny Health Pro now cuz they've got the full metagenomic sequencing plus they have all the GI markers. And then the Gut Zoomer too, the Vibrant test has like, it's a zoomer.

We do a lot of zoomers.

So many more. Area. Yeah. And it has all the markers for gluten intolerance and so many more inflammatory markers. Like it's just so much more information now. So, but I think they just added, added neurotransmitters.

Yeah. Was called Tiny what?

Tiny Health Pro. Yeah, I've been using them. They're, they started with like, you know, microbiome sequencing for babies and moms and you know, they have the full adult test. So yeah, I like that cuz it's, you know, you literally know the percentage of every bacteria in the gut and how it's breaking down. So it really gives you a good picture. Like, yeah, maybe somebody's over, overabundant in this particular species, but that is actually only 0.1% of their microbiome as opposed to this thing that's 13% of their microbiome, which is a whole different way of looking at it than the PCR, you know, cuz you really know every single thing that's in there.

Yeah. Well, thanks for that. Yeah. They do the, uh, vaginal microbiome as well.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's, yeah, that's great.

Yeah, no, I like that one too. Anyway, well, we're, we're, um, running out of time, so tell people where they can find you and about, uh, functional, or the, uh, what's it called?

Yeah, let me, well, you know, I teach this course called Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. You know, you've made it when you have your company's initials on your shirt. You know, that makes you important. So, and let me look at my calendar to see if we created a special link just for your listeners. Yes. So if pe— so it's fdn, fdntraining.com/perfectstool26, and that's in your honor. So if your listeners and viewers would go there, we have a gift. It's a free behind-the-scenes access to the lab methodology we do. It's, it's, it's kind of cool. I don't know what it's worth, but it's free. So per— fdntraining.com/perfectstool26. And, you know, we won't try to sell you anything. We just inform you. You make your own decisions about whatever it is you want to do. Thank you for recommending me to Zero Acre and to that tiny— I, I got that here too. Yeah. Uh, Tiny Health. I, I never heard of him. You just never know. I do see they do beta glucuronidase too. That's a good marker for, yeah, I'm happy to be here, Lindsey Parsons. Time sure went by fast.

Nice to talk to you again.

That's what happens when you're having fun, right? All right. Take care.

Well, I'm glad that we talked a little bit about the dietary guidelines because that was totally the enemy when I was trying to reform the school food in Montgomery County, Maryland, and the absolute insistence on low-fat milk filled with sugar, you know, chocolate milk, strawberry milk, or pink milk as we called it, 'cause there were no strawberries, of course. And now that they've been changed, that will be the impetus because that's really how they have to, the USDA has to base the school foods on is the dietary guidelines. So I look forward to seeing lower sugar foods, which was one of the biggest problems with school food.

Anyway, you can support the podcast by buying supplements at a discount from my Fullscript dispensary, ordering tests at a discount from my Rupa Health Lab Store, or using my affiliate links to iHerb, which is available worldwide.

Worldwide or Amazon.

And just a note to say that you can use my Amazon link to buy anything, so I'd appreciate it if you'd bookmark my link and use it not just for supplements but for gifts and everyday items to support the podcast. If you'd like to connect with me online, you can follow my High Desert Health Facebook page, join my Gut Healing Facebook group, or join my newsletter list at highdeserthealthcoaching.com, as well as follow me on Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, Mastodon, and X. Links for those are in the show notes. Thanks for joining me today, and here's wishing you all the perfect stool.