#24: Do you really need a personal brand as a beginner?

The more helpful answer is, I think when you've figured out what you're doing, that's the right time to get a website up because it will grow and change with you. But once you start something, you've actually got it out in the world. It's public.

Hey, coach, my name is Lindsay and I'm here to help heart-centered women like you build the money-making coaching business of their dreams. I've been coaching since 2019 and this pod is about so much more than that. So much more than building your business. It's about using your gifts to build a life and business you're 100% obsessed with. I went from working 50+ hours a week as a first grade teacher to building a sustainable business that replaced my job salary and gave me back 30+ hours a week of my time. Tune in to join the ride and learn from other coaches and experts along the way.

All right, welcome on the show. I'm so excited to have you here on the Aligned Coach Podcast. Podcast. Thank you for joining us today.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

Yay. So Michelle, tell us a little bit about what it is that you do, where are you located?

Uh, give us, give us all the juice here.

So I'm a branding and web designer and I work with mother and baby businesses. So businesses that serve moms and babies. And I am in Paris, France. I'm actually Australian originally. I've lived in the States for 10 years. My dad's British, so my accent is all over the place, but this is home now.

I love that.

I am a citizen of the world.

Exactly. My dad loves that phrase.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

It sounds like something that a dad would say actually. Super cool dad though. Definitely. Oh my gosh. I love that. Um, okay. So tell us like what that, what does that mean as like as a brand designer and website? Like tell us a little bit more about that.

Yeah, so I always start with strategy. I dive into the sort of why, who, wherefore out the brand, kind of meaning your business, meaning kind of you, especially if it's a personal brand. I really like to dig into your values, your mission, who it is you're working with, really specifically get a handle on what the business is so that I can then help you visually represent that to other people. Sometimes it's really helpful to kind of get that concrete down so we can build on top of it. And then once we've got the branding piece in place, then I can work out the website piece, which is actually where I started website. I added branding later. And the website piece, I also like to take a strategic approach. And there we really focus on what the main goal of the business is and filling out the website around that goal. To also serve those specific customers and what they're looking for. So it's kind of finding the balance between those two things and making for a really easy-to-use site that speaks to them, achieves the business goals, all of those pieces all at once.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that like in our community, like, you know, I'm a coach and I work with a ton of coaches and mentors and a lot of service providers. So some A lot of times it's so, it's so, I don't know about funny. I don't think funny is the word, but I see this sort of like thing that happens is either like a really hard left or really hard right where either A, they're like, I need to like have everything on brand and like, it's gotta be perfect. And this is my color schemes. And like, this is the aesthetic of everything. And then, and this is, of course I'm speaking about like beginner coaches really. And or, or on the very other side, it's like, man, none of that stuff matters. Like I have no coordination, everything is fine. So can you kind of like go in and tell us like, what is it really? Because I know, I know that like branding is more than like color palettes. I think at first I didn't realize that. But can you just sort of like tell us about what that's like to find your brand, what that even means, and really like how to find the balance in between the two whenever you're starting out?

Yeah, so branding is essentially how other people perceive you, and the work that we do through your visual branding is to help them perceive you in the way you want to be perceived. So for example, if we're working with— I work with a lot of moms— let's say we're working with a parenting coach, we'll really dive into really specifically how they coach, what are their methods, what are their values, what is the mission behind all of this, to then kind of Anchor everything in that. So the tone of voice that they use in their messaging, in their copy on their website, on all their social media is based in that, and then the visuals support it. So if you are, say, a parenting coach, having probably something really aggressive and dark wouldn't feel aligned with those kind of people. So it's about matching that energy, matching those sort of expectations so that the people who are looking for you can easily identify like, ah, that's you. And build that sort of trust, the know, like, trust factor. That's pretty much what we're building.

Yeah. And I'm thinking about like my own business journey.

I feel like my brand has almost like created itself, if that makes sense.

Like I've never worked with like, it's on the vision board to do this, but I haven't worked with like a branding professional.

So, but I feel like there are like my tone and like some of the things that I talk about, like I feel like it's like accidental branding.

Does that make sense?

Oh yeah, and I think particularly for personal brands, that can happen a lot and it becomes more of a kind of compromise amalgamation of your personal tastes, what you feel comfortable putting out there, and the feedback you get from other people, you know, especially when we are in this online space. If you're putting out something and you get good feedback from the people you want to get feedback from, you're going to do more of that. So it sort of shapes the brand as you grow it too, which is awesome. I mean, your brand and your website are a living piece of your business and they need to grow and expand with you as you expand too. So I think that's perfect.

Yeah, 100%. So I like to say that you, like your stories, like the things that you've been through, especially as a coach, like speaking from your experience, experiences and like the stories from your past, like that is your brand, right? Like what is the personal, like the personal stuff that you bring to the table, like you said, personal brand. Like that's what people remember about you, right? Like people only remember your font and the colors so much, right? Like ultimately it's like, how do you make people feel, right?

Yeah. It's the connection. You're trying to say, you know, I understand you and I can help you from that place of understanding. And, you know, brand story is a big piece of, I think, successful copywriting, and that's part of all of this world. So I very much agree, and I think in many ways the fonts and the colors are like the last layer that goes on top to just support everything. It's kind of like the facade on a building. It's pretty and it helps you get more excited about it. Ultimately, that's not what the building is, it's just the way you perceive it. So it's, it's a nice thing to get figured out, but I think Basing it on that structure is so important. Otherwise it's just random choices that don't necessarily support anything. Yep.

Absolutely.

100%. What do you, and I heard in the beginning you said, um, I mostly work with those that are ready to scale.

So not necessarily beginners.

Can you tell me, okay, so if a beginner, uh, business owner was trying to find their voice and they were trying to really like find, um, that consistency. What type of advice would you give them for that?

Yeah, so I think when you're really starting out, diving into who you want to serve is always, I think, the strongest place to start from. You will discover more and more your part of the business as you grow. Your values, your mission, that will become kind of part of you as you grow. But figuring out who you want to work with, who you're serving, who your products are is basically going to give you a direction in which to go. So I would say start with that homework and market research. It's really kind of boring to say, but like go talk to people, go ask them what they want, go see if your idea has weight and get it out into the world. I know it's really scary, but just start trying to be out there and get feedback because ultimately, this is the stuff that you will build your brand upon and we can't invent it out of nowhere. For other people. So we can only know so much until you've actually asked the other people what they want from you.

Yeah, absolutely. That's funny that you say that. In Aligned Coach Academy, which is like this 12-week mastermind that I have for new coaches, instead of doing market research, because I have found you're like, oh, it's so boring. It is boring. So we have put like a spin on it in Aligned Coach Academy where we call it brain picking sessions. And yeah, and it's so different. Like the, The students and the girls in there, they're so excited. They're like, yeah, I'm working on my brain picking session.

Because you branded it well, you know what people—

Exactly. And I'm like, this isn't market research. And it's not, right? Because I don't want them to look at it as like validation for their business idea, but it is key that they put it out into the world, right? Like it's key that they get feedback on it and that they, you know, kind of like get those ideas in order and start talking about it, right? So you're so right. It's like, market research is like, but if we can brand it in another way, right?

It's the packaging makes the whole thing easier to swallow.

Yes, I love that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you're so right. And it's like people, how do you make people feel? What is it that you want people to feel and think and experience when they're on your website or even like on social media? So speaking of websites, Can you tell us about like when is a good time to start a website or like what you recommend around that? There's like the million-dollar question, right?

I know, that's my favorite one. So the unhelpful answer is it depends. The more helpful answer is I think when you've figured out what you're doing, that's the right time to get a website up because it will grow and change with you. But once you start something, you've actually got it out in the world. It's public. And it can start doing small things for you even when you're not quite ready. It can start, you know, building your SEO authority, which very boring, but the longer you have your website up, the more time Google and other search engines have to scroll it and find you and make you findable. But it's also a place that people can kind of verify your real business, verify that, you know, you are someone to trust. And even if it is a one-page landing page and you are not ready for anything more than that, I think that's still, you know, a good place to start once you know who you're serving and what you're offering. Yeah, I say platforms, pick whatever you can maintain, you know, especially starting out. I think if you're DIYing, pick something simple. I love Squarespace because it's really easy and they have great customer support, and I actually build a lot of my client websites off of it because I can then go in and like custom code things so it looks gorgeous., but they can still edit it and maintain it like the DIY website that they were coming from. So that's really important to me that the websites can still grow and shift with you as you shift and change. And that's how business is, I think, in this day and age. Yeah.

I think that's a beautiful answer.

Like, as soon as you know what it is that you're doing, I think that that's wonderful because as a business owner, it will change, especially in the beginning, right?

Like you start out with one thing and then you're like, nope, let me just like jump ship and go to something else in this entrepreneurial journey. So I think that like once you have, and that's a good answer, like once you have at least like a pretty general idea that you're going to be in this place, then you can start working on that and let it be simple, right?

And you can build upon it.

Always. Yeah. And think about it, even the biggest brands like Apple and Tesla, they redo their websites all the time and they adjust it all the time. So you should not feel bad that you need to readjust and refigure out your wording, refigure out your layout. Cause even the biggest businesses in the world do it too. So there's no shame in that.

Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Um, I think that's really great, really great advice. I personally have my website on, um, Leadpages. So Leadpages is like my favorite sales page, like landing page builder. It's so simple, very, very user-friendly. And then I just happened to see it said sites and I'm like, oh, I can build a website here. It like took me Took me less than 3 hours, I think, to do the entire thing. And it was so easy. And I don't think, I mean, obviously it's not getting a lot of traffic because I don't really push it at times, but it is there, right? So it's like I'm officially Googleable.

Exactly. You're out there, it's public. And I think even if that's not a key part of your sales funnel, it's still important to have it out there. And it's kind of weird to say, but there is a professionalism that comes with having something like that out there. In the world. You can put it on your Facebook profile, your LinkedIn profile. You can put it somewhere that gives people a sense that you exist beyond social media, and I think that that really helps with the trust factor. And as you say, it can take a couple of hours if it's not really something that's going to drive traffic. If it is something that's going to drive traffic, then I definitely recommend spending time to make sure it's, you know, clearly laid out, that you have a really simple but effective customer journey. That is key to making it work for you.

Yes, hire a professional. That's what she means. When you're ready.

Yes.

Oh my gosh, that's great advice. Can we talk about your journey? It's like the online entrepreneurial journey.

Sure. I love when people talk about this because I feel like in this space it's always so different and interesting. I'm Australian originally. I went to school in California and I went and got a master's degree in film production, which is really cool.

That is super cool.

So I worked, yeah, I worked in set design there for a couple of years afterwards and I loved the work, but I just hated the lifestyle. I was working like 14-hour days, driving all the time and I just couldn't keep it up. And seeing the people I most admired, people with Oscars, with unhappy families, or a lack of families. And I knew having a kid and having a healthy, happy family life was super important to me. So I'd already coupled up with my now husband at that time. He's French. So we sort of leapt on the opportunity to move here to France. And I've been here for 6 years and I started this journey of like, how do I translate these skills into something else that supports my motherhood journey as well? And took some time. I've worked in a couple of small businesses in their marketing teams. I, always loved working with women. So I was really gravitating towards small women-run businesses and I kind of fell into working on their websites and loved it. It was like ticking all my boxes of, you know, very design-oriented but also really like logistic, organizational, very strategic thinking, creative problem-solving, all these skills I'd honed my past life in film. And so when I had my son, I kind of came with a crossroads. I got let go from my job during maternity leave and I had to figure something out. So I decided to retrain and learn about UX design. So that's user experience design. Learned, you know, the tech side of things, learning some coding and kind of started my business during a pandemic, which was coincidental, but also good timing, I guess. Everyone else coming online.

Wow.

Wow.

That is so awesome. I love what you said. It's like, I'm checking the boxes and I'm taking all the skills that I had already honed in on And they're basically like transferring, right? So I think that sometimes whenever we come into like starting our own business or we're coming into the online world, quote unquote, like we feel like we're starting from the bottom and it's like, yes, in some ways you are. And you're also transferring like your entire life's worth of experience. You're transferring your communication skills, analytical skills, people skills, like sales skills. Like all of those things are coming with you into your new business.

So, so like, oh, completely.

Yeah. Like you're not a complete beginner. Like look at all the expertise that like you've gained over your entire life.

Right. Yeah. I think that, I mean, I'm sure that's with other careers too, but particularly when we're running our own businesses, we get to decide which bits we focus on and which bits we kind of push forward. And I really love the strategy. I really love design. So that's what I focused on. You know, I could have become an accountant. I hate math. So that's probably not going to happen. But you know, you lean into what you naturally have. And I think as a business owner, that's one of the most liberating pieces of this whole thing. You know, we can do what we want to do and that's awesome.

Yes.

Liberating.

Oh, that's the word.

Yes, definitely.

Um, yeah.

And wasn't it crazy like last year in the past because I also quit my job and went to relationship coaching full-time last year.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And I didn't know like that the pandemic was happening.

Yeah.

I mean, we, I was a teacher and it was like one Friday, they had, we had a faculty meeting and they said, okay, we're going to take a 2-week break. We'll be back in 2 weeks, you know, and everything's going to be fine. See, see you all have a great break basically.

And who knew that like we would never step back into our classroom for months.

Yeah, it was crazy. But that's such an opportunity. You were able to like seize that and reinvent yourself. I think that's amazing. I so admire that.

So it's so—

it's actually ironic because I had started my relationship coaching business like 8 months before that and I was like secretly doing it.

Nobody at school knew, like I really didn't talk about it publicly a lot.

And I had given my resignation notice like a week before we got let out on that break.

Wow. Yeah.

Yeah.

And then we got let out on the break and I'm like, okay, serendipity.

Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Oh my God. It was so crazy.

And it was actually confirmation is what it was. It was like, yeah.

Yeah. But I think I had a very similar experience. Like I was let go and that was a really tough blow. But at the same time, I knew I wasn't going to stay in that job forever. I knew I wanted to do something different. And the excuse of that and the reason of my son actually being in the world now was the push I needed to like go take that, you know, kind of scary jump. And it sounds like you had a very similar experience.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So definitely not making light of the pandemic, but also finding, finding the good in it, right? We're not making light, but we're finding the light.

I love that.

Oh my gosh, that's so good. Um, cool. So Michelle, like if you could give any new business owner like advice about about anything, like just kind of finding courage or like getting started or have to do with branding. Yeah, I don't know, like what would your words of wisdom be for them?

I think getting to know who your business is for is going to help you so much. And I think thinking about that person, those people, when you're branding, when you're writing your website copy, when you're building your website, will only serve you as a business owner because ultimately, they're the people you need to convince to buy whatever it is you're selling to make your business a real business.. And putting the focus onto them instead of you is also a great way to separate yourself from the anxiety of like putting yourself out there, because it's not necessarily about you. It's sort of mean to say that like your business isn't just about you, it's about the people you serve. And really putting that focus I think can be hugely powerful, especially when you're starting out and trying to figure it out. If you can focus on that, I think that's a huge like push forwards if you can.

Yeah, absolutely. It's also humbling to like get focus off of yourself and say, well, I'm doing this for, for everyone else, right? This is for the people that I'm going to impact, right? Like it's, it's not all about me. So it is nice. Yeah. It's like taking pressure off of yourself and to say like done is better than perfect.

Right.

And exactly.

Yeah.

I just got to start somewhere and, you know, put it out there.

Right. Yeah, they can't find you if it's not out there.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, that, that's great advice. Um, okay, so Michelle, do you only work— and I'm asking, okay, so like two parts of this question— do you only work with product-based businesses, service-based businesses?

Tell me about that part. I started mostly with service-based businesses because that's what I felt more comfortable with, but I recently opened up to working with products too, and I really love that balance. In many ways it's the same process, it's just different kind of ways of putting things together. So yeah, I'm offering both, and I've recently taken on doing some Shopify sites as well because I do think having the tools that fit the need is important. So I'm really trying to make sure that I'm offering what I think is the best solution out there for these kinds of businesses. So Shopify, Squarespace, and I do Webflow too, but I haven't quite found Everybody needs something that high-end, but oh my gosh, it's an amazing tool if you do need something high-end.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

So if, if any of our listeners wanted to connect with you, if maybe they wanted to come soak up some value or learn from you or even reach out to work with you or get help on their branding or their website, how can they contact you or how, how can they come hang in your space?

Yeah. So obviously my website is my favorite place for anyone to find me. I have a blog there, so there's some really good stuff you can Pick up and Learn. It's michellepontvert.com, and then I actually have a freebie on there as well, which is really handy. It's to help you figure out how to optimize that first part of your homepage website before you scroll down. We call it the hero section because it is the hero of your website. If you can optimize that, you've done like 90% of the work. So I have a freebie there. It's at michellepontvert.com/homepage. Homepage-hero. And that's a really great freebie, especially if you're trying to get past that like DIY phase and really start using your website for sales. So highly recommend that.

That is so good. I think I'm going to go snag that like right now. Please do. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much, Michelle. Um, I think that this is a beautiful reminder to the listeners to like, hey, like you're always developing your branding, but you can focus on it and just think about, you know, who is it that you're serving and, and what it like, what are the things that they want, that you want them to remember about you and your brand. So thank you for this beautiful reminder. And I'm going to link that website in our show notes so any of the listeners can just scroll down under this episode and they can click on that and go get their, their freebie and their resource from you and come and connect with you and see all of your amazing goodies.

Amazing. I'm looking forward to it.

Thank you, Michelle.

Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you.