#30: Do THIS to generate revenue from your podcast with Melissa Guller

Instead of thinking of your podcast as a revenue channel, something that you get paid for, think of it as a marketing channel, a way to build your business and build your relationships with prospects who will eventually buy from you.

Hey coach, my name is Lindsay and I'm here to help heart-centered women like you build the money-making coaching business of their dreams. I've been coaching since 2019 and this pod is about So much more than building your business. It's about using your gifts to build a life and business you're 100% obsessed with. I went from working 50+ hours a week as a first grade teacher to building a sustainable business that replaced my job salary and gave me back 30+ hours a week of my time. Tune in to join the ride and learn from other coaches and experts along the way. Okay. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Aligned Coach Podcast. I have an awesome guest here today. We have Melissa Guller. She's a coach and CEO of Wit and Wire. Melissa's going to be talking about her journey today and talking about what it was like to start her own online coaching business and becoming a course creator and how you can get your podcast off the ground. So I know that like we literally just had a guest talk about podcasts and I think that it's so important that we talk about this again because we have several of you. I've got a lot of responses back that several of you are thinking about starting your podcast or that you've already started your podcast. And you're not really sure what to do with it. So I think that this will be a great supplement to the episode that just came out like 2 weeks ago, I think. So welcome on, Melissa. I'm so excited to have you here.

Yes, Lindsay, thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, yeah.

Awesome.

So I will let you just sort of open up, Melissa. Let us know anything about, anything about you, where you're from, kind of what you do in this space and how you got here.

Sure. So I started my business, Wit and Wire, a few years ago, but it was hardly my first step into the online business world. I kind of fell into having my own business, not by accident, but just by saying yes to opportunity. So I was teaching at General Assembly here in New York City where I'm based, and I was teaching Excel classes. I'm a huge spreadsheet nerd. I love them. And I do love to teach. And then after class, people would come up to me and say, oh, do you Tutor. And I would say, oh yes, let me get back to you with my rates. And then I would go home and furiously Google rates and then email them the next day. And then same thing with consulting. Somebody came up to me and said, hey, do you do consulting for businesses? And I said, sure, let me get back to you with my rates. And then the next day, sure enough, Googled it, came up with some rates and sent them a package. And I love to talk about how I got started because I think all of us have such amazing skills and often don't even realize how marketable they are, how much value they have to other people. And so you can go ahead and say yes and be in business just by giving somebody a quote. So that's how I got started. And then kind of fast forwarding through my career in 30 seconds, I have been working with big name course creators like Ramit Sethi. I've worked for Teachable, which is a software that people could use to create and sell their own online courses. And I've had my own online courses through my site. And of course I do use Teachable, but I have a unique perspective, I think, on the online course space, having seen it from so many different angles. So I'm always happy to help other course creators and coaches along their journey. With Wit Wire, I help creators launch podcasts so that they can become more visible, get their message out there, and of course, book more clients and sell more courses.

Wow. That is awesome. So basically using your podcast as a way for visibility and as a way to ultimately like, like to be monetized and to grow your audience and to really become profitable, right?

Exactly. I think podcasting is a unique medium because you get to build such deep relationships with people. There are hardly any other platforms where people will be willing to listen to you for 50 minutes. I mean, 50 seconds is too much for some platforms, let alone 50 minutes or an hour. And no matter how long your podcast episode is, I'm not saying it has to be a 50-minute episode. It's just that you're able to build relationships in a deeper way. You're able to share your expertise. If you're interviewing guests, just by association, by curating who comes on your show and providing that knowledge to your audience, you also elevate your own authority in that way. And I found that there's this huge misconception that you have to have a huge audience in your podcast in order to make money. And I think really what people are seeing is that yes, you have to have a huge audience if you want to make money from sponsors. But if you're an online business owner, let's say you have a coaching package for roughly $1,000. If you just get one person to buy that from you, you only needed one person to make that money. You didn't need 5,000 people to make that kind of money. And so I think that people would maybe especially our listeners today, you guys have businesses or you're aspiring online business owners, instead of thinking of your podcast as a revenue channel, something that you get paid for, think of it as a marketing channel, a way to build your business and build your relationships with prospects who will eventually buy from you.

That is so good. I just want to like say that again. So instead of thinking of your podcast as a revenue channel, think of it as a marketing channel. So good. I think that that is like so good. Because you're right. There is no other platform. Like if you are on Instagram or even Facebook and you see someone's video come up, like you're not gonna honestly, like who watches like all of the videos, like the IGTVs or even the lives, you know, we're popping in, we'll stay for a few minutes, then pop out. A podcast, like you're literally driving with someone to work, right? They're listening to you while they're folding their laundry or cooking, cooking dinner. Like it is such a great way to build that trust. They get to know your personality. You share little details about yourself and you're serving your audience, you know, like we're genuinely serving and they're taking away so much valuable information from, from a podcast. So that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. So I would love to touch on your experience with like working with online courses and how you said, so someone just asked me what my consulting rates were. So I went home and Googled it. And yeah, just kind of like came back with it. I love that story. Can we talk about that a little bit?

Sure. I mean, for the Excel example, I think that tutoring somebody in a skill or providing kind of that one-to-one time is a great place for anybody to start. If you are thinking about creating an online course, I do strongly believe in either starting with a one-to-one offering or a small group offering, because not only is it more attainable, I think, to get just one person or just a few people, but to me, that's you getting paid to test out your potential course idea. I think that's a huge mistake a lot of course creators make is that they know the power of scalability. They see that online courses is a great way to build your business big picture. But the mistake I people, I see people making is they jump all the way from I'm starting today to let's make a big course. But instead, what you could do is just get one client. So for me, I worked one-on-one with people to help them launch their podcasts. And then after you do even just a few, you start to see that there's a pattern. You have a process, whether you know it or not, you have a signature method. And the way that I help somebody launch a podcast might be different from how somebody else does it, but you can start to take note. Like, what are the questions people are always asking me? Like, no surprise, everyone wants to know what microphones do I use? All these other very common questions I get asked, but then there are more nuanced things like, okay, I've got the mic, but how do I make an episode that hooks people? How do I actually make great content? And as you help people one-to-one, you'll start to realize what those things are. And you'll even maybe templatize the way that you work with one-to-one people. And then you can say to yourself, you know, I think this is a course idea. And even beyond that, let's say you're kind of in phase 2, you've done it a few times, doing a small group. A lot of people call it a beta program. I think that's great too, because then you don't have to have this super polished course. That's something I think that holds a lot of people back. You think you have to have super professional looking videos and you have to have the full course ready before it goes live. I don't believe in any of that. I think that you have to have the method. You have to have the track record to show that you've helped people get this outcome. But from there, you can take it week to week. You can hop on for 8 weeks and do a Zoom training and then upload those for people. And that is so valuable because they have the thing that they're really paying for, which is your knowledge. They don't need to have professionally edited, high-quality production videos, at least not the first time around. So I think that's some advice I would give anybody thinking about creating an online course is start one-to-one or ask yourself, what is the minimum viable course idea that I have? What's like the smallest effort that I could put in that doesn't detract from the value, but maybe that does simplify the production of the whole thing. Yeah.

I love that so much. I like, Sometimes you hear, I'll talk with people and they're like, yeah, I'm just going to finish my course. Then I'm going to promote it. And I'm like, no, don't do that. Like you could be getting paid for this, right? Like you could be getting paid to do this work right now. So I definitely agree on that front. I think that a lot of times though, like just like the beliefs behind it is that they think that it does have to be perfect, right? Or they compare themselves to, you know, like the big, the big people, the big, you know, the, multimillionaires that have their courses all laid out. They've got professional photos, professional videos, all the works. And so they're looking at that. But what we have to remember mindset-wise is that everyone starts from zero, right? Like everyone starts from the beginning. I don't have professional videos in my courses. Like it's literally just me on Zoom talking and uploading it. But the information in there, it's freaking gold, right? Like it's life-changing. And of course, Yeah, we can all sit around and, and try to perfect it and, you know, trim it and like make it perfect. But like how— like you're like, you're literally like stopping someone from changing their life, right? Like the more that— this has been such a big theme this week. Like the more that like you worry about being perfect and the more that you worry about trying to make it just right and have everything just the way that you want it, like you're actually stopping someone else's transformation from taking place. So that's a really, really great point.

I think that's well said. And even now my course has evolved and I'm constantly updating it. Podcasting especially, there's so much going on in 2021 that things are evolving. But even now when I add new curriculum, it's still just a basic Google Slides template with some very basic looking slides. And I keep my videos pretty short. That's how I teach is very 5 to 7 minute length kind of videos, not hours long, which helps with two things. It helps me make them and it helps people consume them because it's so much easier to watch a 5-minute video. But the point is that even as you become more successful, I do think it's a misconception that more successful means higher production, get into a studio, do all these things. Like nobody needs that. They're not buying the course. They're buying the outcome that you provide them at the end of the course. And you can do that in a much simpler way than probably you think. And I love what you said too. Like if you're not getting paid to do it, find a way to get paid to create. That's something that I think everybody could think about a little bit. How can I get paid to make this instead of spending all my time up front making something that I haven't yet proven that anybody will actually buy from me?

Oh my gosh, that's such a good point. I have a signature program. It's called Aligned Coach Academy. And this is my second time like recreating it. So technically I have two courses, but like the first one was like me teaching it as we went. And it was like, this is what I, this was my method. This was the signature method. And then we went through the course and it was like, wait a minute. Like, I was like, this is actually how I could better serve these students. So now there's like another one of the courses. So you're so right. Like it's going to change. It's going to change. It's going to evolve. And that's okay. Like that's what it should be. It shows that you're actually like in tune with the people that you're serving. It shows that you're trying to make it better quality. You're trying to make it be easier retained or easier retained. No, that's not what I'm— retainable.

I don't know. Yeah. The information is easier to retain.

Yeah. It's easier to retain. Yeah. There we go. So yes, definitely, definitely true.

And I can throw out one more mindset thing, which is that people don't need your course to be perfect because if they ask you a question and it's not in the curriculum and you say, wow, that is great. You're right. I should add it. And then they see that you are reliable and that you add something and you answer that question that builds trust. That shows that you're listening. And so I don't want people to think that your potential students need you to get it right the first time. What they need is to hear that you are listening to what they need and that you're taking action.

Yes, yes, absolutely. 100%. All this is so good. You're just like a plethora of like good information. Very good.

I'm trying to, I mean, I really love to help people. That's why I went into business. I just felt like so many more women needed the permission to know that their skills had a monetary value. And then just help breaking down all of the things that feel really complicated, because I really do believe anybody can have an online business. Anybody can start a podcast. It's just a matter of wading through the tech and all the logistics and knowing what to do and in what order. And so to me, those are things that can be taught. But having the knowledge that everybody already has, like hard-earned professional skills, personal life skills, like those are so valuable. And I'm hoping to help break down the barriers to turn that into a profitable business for people.

I love it so much. What would you say was like the hardest part of starting your own business? I know that you've been in business for what, a few years now, right?

I've been in business for probably 7 years in different ways. I was just a freelancer for a while. I had full-time employment and I was doing a lot of contractor work on the side. I was teaching in-person classes. I was doing consulting. I've always had some kind of side hustle for years. And then I started Wit and Wire fully 2 years ago with the intention that this was going to be a business I would pursue full-time. And now I do have my own full-time business. I recently left my job at Teachable, which was terrifying. And I would say that the hardest part is just kind of Knowing that not everything you try will work. I think one of the reasons that I've been successful is because I'm not afraid to try new things. And that when I do, I go into it thinking that the goal is to learn, not that the goal is to be successful because it's inevitable. Like I worked in live corporate events for a long time. And I think that builds a good mentality of things are going to break. Like it does not matter how good you are at planning. Like I'm a systems girl. I live and die by Asana. I love a good project management template. Like that's my world. Professionally, I was in that for a long time and the best laid plans just need room to evolve. And I would also say that strategies that work well for other people won't necessarily work for you. And that's okay. Like as a business owner, you're not going to be deciding between a good idea and a bad idea. You're going to listen to two different podcast episodes and they're going to tell you two completely opposing things. And you're just going to have to decide which one feels better to you. So I would say go with your gut. Do what feels right for you regardless of what other people are saying and just kind of go into it knowing not everything will work, but that your worth is not measured by how your business is doing. And I think that's a healthy mindset. I read a lot of personal development books. That's just what I do, I guess, for fun. And those things have helped me kind of have a healthy mentality about it. So there is a lot of mindset that goes into having an online business. I do not love it every single day. I don't think anybody does. But I think you just have to know, like it ebbs and flows. And at the end of the day, there is no other job I would rather have.

So true. Thank you for saying that. I don't love it every single day. I mean, most days I definitely do love it, but like writing email sequences and like creating landing pages and like those things that do not give instant gratification, I don't enjoy that just to be frank. Like they're not my favorite thing to do. I would rather have conversations and like, teach people and coach people. And now I can, I can write email sequences and I can do those things, but they're definitely not my favorite part. So that's so true. It's, and it is going to ebb and flow and there's going to be 1,000 different strategies out there. I think that that's a huge one. Like whenever you're first starting your business is that like you're looking for like this magic secret, you're looking for the code to like crack, you know, you're thinking that there's like this one size fits all, like these are the steps to make it happen. And ultimately, like you said, the truth is, You can listen to two different podcasts teaching the same thing, but a different way to get there, right? Like there's going to be a different strategy and you have to take what works for you, tweak it, make it your own, and learn as you go. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and I'll also say that it's a good trait as a business owner to decide and commit. By that I mean, let's say you've got five different ideas. You can't do them all at once. Maybe some of them are directly in opposition. Try to just commit to one and then don't immediately switch gears if at the first sign of it going potentially wrong, it doesn't look like you want it to. Like, I think a good example is webinars. That's a strategy that's been in the online business world for a long time. And it's always very spicy to say like, ooh, our webinar's dead or all these things. And I have a webinar strategy within my business because I love to teach. And so it's a great way for me to really provide value. And I think If I had put a webinar out into the world and then just made a decision based on how the first one went, I would have been in a very different position than where I am right now. So if you want to try a strategy, like stick to it for a couple months or a quarter, and then you'll know, okay, maybe I'll try something different next quarter. But I would just say, don't be afraid to stick it out for a little bit. Try not to just jump ship at the first sign that maybe it's not converting at the super, super high rate that you were expecting. Give it a chance. And then kinda go from there.

Oh my God, so good. Yes, it is such a spicy thing to say. Like I get these targeted ads all the time on my social media. It's like, webinars are dead, do this instead, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, actually they're not dead. Like if you're delivering, because I also do webinars, I love doing webinars. Like I love teaching, I love having this interaction. And I think that if you're actually energetically in tune with it and you provide like a really fun experience and a very immersive experience, then they're very lucrative and they, you do get a return from it if you're doing it right.

So just my personal opinion. Any of those articles about like webinars are dead, Instagram is dead, email is dead. Like they're just trying to get you to click on their article. Make no mistake. This is just a good copywriter at work. So it'll work for some people. It won't work for some people. Like even sitting here right now today, any strategy that I could tell you is working amazingly for my business might not be working for you at all. And I think that's That's great. Because if there was only one answer, it would be so challenging for any of us to succeed. So I like to think of it as a good thing that we can all find our own kind of unique business blueprint because it means there's plenty of room for everyone.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, 100%. That it, like whenever they're like, oh, cold messaging is dead, which sometimes I think it depends. But, or yeah, Instagram is dead or, you know, get off of Facebook and do this instead, like whatever, or get off Instagram. Instagram, go to Facebook groups. It does. That is polarizing content. That's, that's clickbait. It wants you to click it. It's going to tell you the secret code to do instead. Very good copywriting. So true. So true. So yeah, yeah, this is so good. Like, I feel like the listeners are going to take so much from this. And like you said, it's a permission slip to just make mistakes, to learn along the way and to really embrace the process. It's like, I don't know about you, Melissa, but I did not wake up and just make six figures in the first 30 days, right, of like being my own boss. And I think that it's, it's easy sometimes to look at the highlight reel, or to look at, you know, the coaches and course creators and all these people on Instagram or wherever and say, wow, well, if you know, success came so easy to them, why is it not coming so easy to me? Like something's broken, something's not working right. But I think that's not the norm, right?

Like, no, I don't think so. And I'll be honest, I actually have a really hard time with social media. Before I got serious about using it for Wit and Wire, I had been off Instagram and pretty much all socials for over a year. Like as a person, as a human being outside of my business, it's really not my vibe. But for my business, it's a perfect fit to be on Instagram. And I do enjoy it in more of a quality over quantity kind of way. But I really can't follow people who promote that lifestyle, not because I'm happy for them. Like I really believe that there's an abundance of business opportunity. There's more than enough for all, but it sometimes is hard for me to see because I'm only human. And if I look at all the hard work that I put in and I look at the money that I made, but then I'm also a numbers person. I look at what I'm spending. People don't talk about that nearly enough. They say, oh, I made 5 figures. And I'm like, okay, how much did you spend? Like how much is that a profit for you? But I think it's hard to look at. And so I honestly end up not looking. And I think that it's healthier for my mental state to not compare myself to others, especially to my direct competitors. Like a lot of people say, do the research. I think there's something to be said for that kind of right at the beginning, but I do not look at what my direct competitors are doing because I don't want to worry that I'm copying them or compare myself to them. I just try to do my own thing. And I get inspiration from people in kind of adjacent categories to what I'm doing. Like I definitely follow online business owners, but I don't follow people who are talking about how to launch a podcast. Yep. Because that's exactly what I do. And so I've found that it's just not for me the healthy right choice. It's hard to not compare. So try not to do it. I try to just kind of focus on what I'm up to and that overnight success is a total myth. Like those people have been hustling for years. And I also think that it's tough if you aren't selling something that earns people money directly, it is hard to compare yourself to people who are. So by that I mean, if you're talking about like how to build an online business, you're directly helping somebody earn money. That's very different from if you're teaching people about how to get their kid to sleep at night or watercolor painting or any of these other topics. And I know from working at Teachable, you can sell courses on anything. Like, I believe that completely. From the watercolor painting example to handpan, an instrument I had never heard of, to homesteading and raising goats. I mean, there are courses on absolutely everything on Teachable. There's an opportunity there. But I would say that it's hard to look at people who are teaching about earning money because it seems like money comes more easily. To them. And so I don't know if anybody else feels that way. I certainly do, but I wouldn't let it stop you. I would just kind of focus on what you're up to, know your audience, know what you're selling, know that your price point or your profitability that month might look different and know that it is a highlight reel. Like you said, like take that all with a grain of salt. That's their best day, not the day that you're having right now. So just kind of, you know, keep blinders on a little.

Absolutely. And like, not, and like, yes, the money that you spend, but also the time that goes into it. Like for me, like I have 2 kids, I'm married, I don't really get on social media on the weekends. I pretty much like, I work like less than like 20 to 25 hours a week because that's the kind of life I want to live. So like, yeah, if I wanted to work 40, 50, 60 hours and be on, be on social media all the time, like yeah, I could probably make more money to be honest, you know? So also taking that into consideration, I remember when I was a fresh newbie and I was like following all of these And hey, I'm not knocking, I'm not knocking anyone's hustle whatsoever. Like, I am, I'm supporting you. Like, I'm cheering you on. Every, everyone that's listening, all the coaches I've ever invested in, like, all the people, I'm sending all my love and light. But like you said, it was, I got caught up in the, oh, well, she's doing this. And oh, she's doing that. And wow, like living this life, like this lavish lifestyle. Why can't I do it? So I did, I had to unfollow or mute people that I knew personally even. And like, I love and I respect them and like, that's great for them. But you're right, like, we're human and we do have those moments where we're like, oh, I feel a little triggered. Or like, let me go and kind of talk about what they're talking about, thinking that it's going to like bring more, you know, reach or likes or whatever. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, that's not what this is about. Like, it's about sharing my truth, you know, and sharing like what I'm an expert on. So yes, yes, so much to be said there.

And I love that you mentioned that you only work 20 to 25 hours a week. I think that's so important. Like it's actually a big reason why I started my own business is because I wanted to control my life outside of work. I wanted to decide when I spent hours. I wanted to decide where I spent my time because I live in New York, but I have family all across the US and I wanted to be able to see them. And obviously we're in a pandemic and a slowly post-pandemic world, things are different. But I started this well before that because I knew I wanted to be able to spend 2 weeks in California with my family and to work while I was there, but then have the work-life balance to stop when I wanted. And I don't think that's something we talk about enough, is deciding how much time you want to be working and what you want to earn during that time of day. Because I don't think that it's all about just, I want to spend all these hours hustling so hard and making all this money. Like, what kind of life will you have if that's all that you're up to. So I don't know, I just think it's so important. It's not something we talk about enough, even with professional careers, even working for other people. I just feel like the way that you spend your life matters. And I hope that people enjoy their job. I'm definitely not here to say you should hate the way that you spend a 9 to 5 at all. There is a better way. But I also think there's something to be said for having a job that does not go around the clock.

Yes, yes. Oh my gosh, that's it. Like, to each their own. Exactly. And all I can do is speak from what I know and what works for my life, right? And, and just put my best light into the world, I guess. So yes, this is so good, Melissa. Yeah, if you could like deliver any piece of advice or any like wisdom, I feel like this, we've already like covered so much, really, you've already delivered so much value. But if you could just give like, you know, people, our coaches, course creators that are specifically thinking about starting a podcast, or maybe they've already gotten one off the ground, or they're trying to, like, what piece of advice would you give them?

It's funny. So I've asked this question a lot on different podcasts and by far the most common answer is just do it. And so I believe in that, but I'm going to give different advice, which is to take advantage of being the size that you are instead of trying to emulate course creators and business owners who are 12 steps ahead. Because if you are just getting started, you actually have a couple of advantages. One, people aren't looking at you as much. You can try new things. You can see what works and what doesn't for you. And you're not under very close scrutiny. On top of that, you can do things that don't scale. Like we're so focused on build a business that scales, automate yourself out, blah, blah, blah. I love automation, but to me that can come later. There are some things you can do when you're small that bigger businesses just can't do. As an example, when people enroll in my signature program, the Podcast Launch Accelerator, I send all of them a welcome video. I read their onboarding form. I get to know them. I send this video. That's something that bigger course creators can't do., but it helps me really build relationships with students. And I know what all my students are up to. Like, I can tell you about their podcast. I can tell you why they're launching their podcast. I can tell you with at least some educated guess where they are in the process, if they're involved in like the coaching that comes with the program. Like, I'm really invested. And that's something I can only do while I'm, you know, at roughly just over 100 people in that program over the last year. And so I would say treat your business as the size that you are. If you're smaller, make it personalized, do these like one-to-one, one-to-one things bigger businesses can't do. And then as you grow, you will adapt, but don't try to be a business serving thousands while you're a business serving 10 people.

Yes. Oh, so good.

Yes.

It's the exact same with the Aligned Coach Academy. So I like to say that one of the things that makes it different is that it is, yes, it's a group academy, but it's also one-on-one support. So we have like one-on-one accountability throughout it. We have a one-on-one onboarding session. And that will not always be the case as it grows, right? Whenever I have 1,000 people or even 100 people that are coming through, coming in and out, like I won't be able to do that. Just like me personally, maybe I could have, you know, support coaches that could help with that. But right now, like it is such a beautiful program because you do get that direct support from me. And that's, that's awesome. Like I'm owning that fact, you know, because it is getting off the ground. It is getting that momentum. So that's a beautiful, beautiful point.

Melissa. And a great example. I love that you do onboarding calls because that's so valuable to the new students, but it's also valuable for you as the creator because the more you can talk to people one-to-one, especially right when they join, the more you can learn about what they need, which again helps you serve better throughout the program. So I just think it's so valuable, so important. Do the one-to-one work. I know you dream maybe of automating it and having these courses and making money in your sleep,. But people who are making money in their sleep spend a lot of hours working during the day. Yes.

Oh my God. So good. So true. Yeah, you're 100% right. Behind every overnight success is 10 hard years that have been leading up to that moment. Yes, 100%. This is so good, Melissa. So if anyone wants— okay, so tell us the name of your signature program one more time.

It's called the Podcast Launch Accelerator.

Podcast Launch Accelerator. And if any of the listeners are interested in getting their podcast off the ground, or they just want to connect with you even and learn more from you, how can they do that?

My business is called Wit Wire. So you can find me on Instagram @witandwire. If you are thinking about launching a podcast, but you don't want to deal with expensive tech, you're worried that if you don't have a huge audience that you won't be able to earn money, I do have a free masterclass where you can learn more about my method and my podcast launch playbook. And you can find that at witandwire.com/alignedcoach.

Oh, aligned coach, you say? Oh wow.

What, uh, how serendipitous. Yes. As a pro tip, as the obvious strategy is that I'm doing. I go on a lot of podcasts and so I always use a unique link so I can figure out where my students are coming from.

Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Oh, I love that. And all of you should do it too. I just use Pretty Links on my WordPress site, but you don't need a plugin. If you use Squarespace, you can do the same thing. Just make dedicated links and then you get better data about your business.

So good. Thank you for sharing that. Very good. All right. Um, Melissa, well, thank you so much for coming on. I have enjoyed this. I know that the listeners have, If y'all want to connect with Melissa, definitely check her out, Witten Wire, on Instagram and her website. Go check out her links. And yeah, thank you so much, Melissa. Yeah, thank you for having me.

Awesome.

We'll see you all in the next episode of the Aligned Coach Podcast.