#50: How to make more sales using your email list

Make your email sound like you. It doesn't, it's not a formal essay that you're writing. It is, you're having a conversation. So like imagine that you are emailing this directly to your ideal clients.

Hey coach, my name's Lindsay and I'm here to help heart-centered women like you build the money-making coaching business of their dreams. I've been coaching since 2019 and this pod is about so So much more than building your business. It's about using your gifts to build a life and business you're 100% obsessed with. I went from working 50+ hours a week as a first grade teacher to building a sustainable business that replaced my job salary and gave me back 30+ hours a week of my time. Tune in to join the ride and learn from other coaches and experts along the way. All right, welcome back everyone to the Aligned Coach Podcast. Thank you for tuning in today. If you're a new listener, welcome on for the first time. I know that you all are going to enjoy this interview. I certainly am. I have Bev Feldman here with us. She is a marketing technology consultant, really focusing on coaches and small business owners who are working on getting their emails set up and set up right. So welcome on, Bev. I'm so excited to have you here.

Thanks for having me, Lindsay.

Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited for today's chat. My ears like lit up whenever you were like ConvertKit, and I'm like, oh, that's my service provider. Like, let's talk today.

I love talking about ConvertKit.

Yes. Yes. So we are going to dive into all things email marketing, what that looks like, why it's important, how to start, what to do, all the good things. So go ahead and introduce yourself, Bev, and let's jump right in.

Yeah. So my name is Bev, obviously, and I have a business called Your Personal Tech Fairy where I help online solopreneurs to get their email marketing set up and fully automated so that you you know, you know that things are working the way you want them to. You have more opportunities to make money and also have that energy to focus on the work you want to do with your clients.

Yes. It's all about focusing that energy, like where it needs to be, right?

Exactly.

Yeah. It's such a learning curve to like, and we'll dive into this, I'm sure, but such a learning curve with like your email marketing, because I don't think it's necessarily I mean, obviously I'm not an expert. I don't think it's necessarily like hard, right? Like it's not like coding. It just takes time to learn. And like sometimes we just don't have time, right? Like we—

Exactly.

We just don't have it. And we're like, yeah, I'll just put it off. Or yeah, I'll do it next week. And then next week turns into next week into next month. And then before you know it, it's the end of 2021 and you're like, I've sent out like 3 emails this whole year.

Yes.

Yeah. This is going to be super juicy. Okay. So tell us, let's just go ahead and dive straight in. What is the importance of having our email marketing? Like, what is the big jazz about email marketing anyways?

Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. And I think, I mean, most, I would say everyone has email in this day and age, or at least anyone who's an online business owner. And I think we recognize that we are all inundated by too many emails. And I think for that reason, it makes us say, well, maybe I don't want to do email marketing. But the thing is, is unlike social media, which is I think what a lot of business owners use for finding clients and connecting with people is we are completely at their mercy. We don't have any control over the algorithms, which change constantly. They could decide we have violated some of their terms of service and either— it's happened to you before.

Yes, it has. Yeah.

And then that happens. And then what? Then you have no access to any of those people you've been connecting with. Versus email marketing. If someone gives you permission to take their email and show up in their inbox, it's a couple things. One, they're signaling to you they want to hear from you. And whether or not they actually open up their email, you know, they're guaranteed to at least show up in their inbox. You are guaranteed to show up in their inbox. You may not show up in someone's Instagram feed or Facebook feed, but you will show up in their inbox. So even if they don't open your emails, they're still likely to at least see you and be, you know, kind of have that visual reminder of you and your business. And that is why I think email marketing is just so important as a business owner.

Yeah, 1000%. We have— we don't have any control over the algorithm, right? Like we can do the videos or the Reels or the hashtags. But we're still not guaranteed, like you said, to go across someone's feed. Right. However, like whenever we send an email to someone, I know 100% that it will go to their inbox. I I don't have to worry about, oh, the algorithm, or oh, it didn't go through or whatever. I know that it will be there, right? Whether it's in their inbox or in their promotions tab, like it's going to be there. And then it's up to them and to my marketing skills if they open it or not, right?

Exactly.

So I think that's so, so key. It's so simple, right? But it's so key to that. So when would you say it's like the ideal time for a small business owner or a new solopreneur to start their email list? Like when is the right time?

Yesterday? I would say like, I mean, I tell people, so I used to have a jewelry business and I was very much in the handmade world. And I always told my fellow makers, like, I don't care if you don't think you have anything to email your list yet, start collecting those email addresses. And by collecting them, I mean, you know, get people's permission so that when you do feel like, okay, like, you know, I think part of email marketing is mindset. Like there is kind of this little hump of, oh, what am I going to send? Or no one wants here for me and I'm going to annoy people. But like once you have, you're in that place, you're like, all right, I'm going to start emailing people. You have that versus if you, you decide to wait, you're like, oh, I'm going to wait till I'm a little more established. Well, then you've missed out on all those opportunities. So I look at it like you should just start. Like you don't necessarily have to do anything with it right away, but just have a way to capture people's email addresses with their consent, of course. So it could be, you know, if you're big on Instagram, having a link to it in your bio where people can sign up for your list. Actually, you know, as we had mentioned ConvertKit earlier, they started creating forms that are specifically tailored towards your Instagram bio. So they're kind of like a substitute for using Linktree or something like that where you can still include links to things that maybe you talk about, but there's also a form like embedded right there.

Cool.

So yeah, and you don't have, I think you don't have to have anything fancy yet, even if it's just like, you know, sign up to get updates. I do recommend having some sort of more formal or not formal, but like something that's a little more enticing than just sign up for my newsletter, because let's be real in 2021, no one that's, no one's just going to sign up for the sake of signing up for, usually they're like, all right, well, what do I get in exchange?

Yeah.

So I really—

What life-changing advice or life-changing resource will you get in exchange for this email address? Yeah.

And that can always change later, but just having some way to capture email addresses, I just think is so important.

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I didn't know that ConvertKit offered that. You know, I use ConvertKit and I, um, I didn't know that. So I'm definitely gonna have to check that out for sure.

It's funny. I only, I didn't realize it either, but then a client of mine, I happened to look at it in her Instagram bio and I was like, oh, She made this on ConvertKit. I'm like, well, obviously I should be doing that too.

Obviously, right? Yes, obviously. Yeah. Okay. So we know that we should have started our email list yesterday. We know the importance of email marketing. So like, but once I start my email list, like what do I do with it? Like, should I be like selling to them? Should I be selling like a, or sending like a monthly newsletter? Like what do you recommend to kind of like find your flow or like how do you know what to say in those emails?

Exactly. Yeah. So it's one of those things, like there's not a, this is how you should be doing it. At least that's not how I look at it. I do though recommend at the very least, in addition to the, you know, whatever the incentive email is, you know, people sign up for your list and then they get that freebie. You should obviously have that set up so that they get the freebie. But on top of that, I always recommend some sort of automated welcome sequence. And what I mean by that is it's just a series of emails that automatically go out after that initial freebie that they signed up for. And it's a way to build a relationship and connect with your subscribers so that, you know, no matter what you have going on in your life— and let's be real, like, you know, sometimes we forget about email marketing and, you know, we have the intention of doing maybe a weekly or monthly newsletter and then for whatever reason we don't. But you know that no matter what's going on, people will automatically get a series of emails from you right out, right off the bat. And it doesn't have to be anything super complex. Like, I do recommend having some sort of email where you kind of introduce yourself a little bit more about maybe a little bit about your journey and why you're qualified to be the person that they listen to. So, and you're, And then you can have a few more emails. The purpose of the welcome sequence isn't to be selling necessarily your product or service, but to kind of like get them to know, to signal to your subscribers that I'm in the right spot. So I highly, highly recommend that you inject personality into it. And what I mean is like just write in your voice. So it doesn't have to be, I think, let me back up and say that a lot of us, I think, get really caught up in the content of our emails and expect them to be perfect, which they don't. Like, we are all human. We all make typos. We all like accidentally put the wrong link in our emails. Like, yeah, these things happen. So make your email sound like you. It doesn't, it's not a formal essay that you're writing. It is, you're having a conversation. So like, imagine that you are emailing this directly to your ideal client. So imagine one specific person and that's who you're writing to. So just think about like, Okay, if I'm just writing to, you know, this great, you know, my, this amazing client, Sarah, that I've worked with for months and we knew, know each other super well, I'm going to pretend like I'm writing to her so that it doesn't like, you don't have to feel so, ah, what am I going to write in my emails? So, and I recommend with those welcome emails to not focus yet on selling. It's really about relationship building.

Ooh, yeah. Focus on relationship building. I like what you said about the credibility, like establishing why you're credible, who you are and why should they listen to you, right? Like, what can they expect going forward? I remember signing up with someone's email list who I had met in like a Facebook group and then I like signed up for one of her freebies. And from her welcome sequence, she— and it was like just so, it was so her, like I could just tell it was so her. Like I was sad like when the email ended. I'm very first email, I was like, oh my God, this was so good. Like I just felt like it was so friendly and conversational. And I was like literally waiting until I received the next email. Because because it was that good. I'm like, oh my God, like, I just can't wait to read the next one. Well, turns out she was like launching this new, like offer or whatever. And as soon as she sent like the marketing email for that, because I was on her list, I got it. I was like, I've got to work with her from that one email, like literally, just because I could like feel her energy and like her vibe in it. I knew she was credible. I knew what she could offer from that one email. And then it was like Boom. All right, like, let's work together. And so we worked together for 3 months. It was beautiful. So like, that is the power of email marketing.

Exactly. Yeah. And it's not like you have to go into it thinking, okay, well, I have to sell to everyone on my list. The whole point of it is that you are kind of through your emails, like, not weeding out, but like really helping people understand that this is a good fit. And just like you talked about with this person, you know, there was something in that welcome email that you're like, I don't care what she is selling, I want to work with her. And like, she was writing those emails to you basically.

Yeah, it was so good. I was like, I could not reply to that email fast enough to tell her that I wanted in on that offer. Like literally, I was like, I'm in, like count me in, you know, it was so good. Okay, so that's so awesome. Alright, so we definitely need an email sequence or a welcome email sequence. We want to include an intro, who it is that we serve, what it is that we do, what they can expect, expect. And just really building up that rapport and credibility. So then what do we do, right? Like, then do we like just send like weekly updates? Like, hey, like, this is what's going on in our biz. Like, what does that look like? What are like maybe some dos and don'ts of like, you know, newsletters or weekly nurturing?

So I really think it depends on you and your business and what you think you can realistically do. If you like love giving weekly updates and you look forward to writing like a weekly newsletter, then totally go for it. I, you know, if you know that you're going to do that consistently, I would say do it. I do recommend though, if you are going that route to find a way to make sure people in your welcome sequence finish the welcome sequence first before they're entered into your weekly newsletter. So If you're using something like ConvertKit, you could add— ConvertKit's very big on tags. You could tag someone who's currently in their welcome sequence, and then when they are done with the welcome sequence, you could have that tag removed, but have an email segment that removes people with the welcome tag. So basically people come into your newsletter, they get their freebie, go into your welcome sequence, but they're identified so that if you're sending out your weekly newsletter, they're not also getting their welcome sequence and the newsletter at the same time because A, can cause some confusion, B, you don't want to overwhelm people by sending them multiple emails in the same day. So, so that's one way. I personally, and I've gone the newsletter route in the past, and I think it's a couple things. It depends what's going on in your business. If you're doing like a live launch, then yes, you should absolutely have emails about that. If you're kind of have a business where it's just things are kind of ongoing, like you have clients on a rolling basis kind of thing, I personally like to have set up like months worth of content. So it's, you're constantly like, no matter again what's going on, I'm nurturing those relationships in the background, providing a lot of value. Periodically mentioning like, you know, yes, here's, here's this product or service I sell. Here's how we could work together, but also like making it so that they see that I have something to help them. I have— I'm providing value.

Okay.

And what's nice about it is it can be a little time-consuming doing that at once. I think people are like a month's worth of content written out, like what? But the good thing about that is you spend, you know, couple hours getting it set up and then it's just, it's just going on in the background on autopilot. You have to do it once and maybe periodically go back in and check your stats, especially look at click-through rates. Open rates nowadays, thanks to the iOS update, apparently not super reliable stats to look at, but definitely look at your click-through rates and see, you know, especially if you have emails where you're trying to get them to click on like to book a call or to watch a video or read like a blog post you've written, see if people are actually clicking those links to see if they're engaging with your content.

Yeah. So why do you, I'm curious of what you just said. Why, how did the iOS update affect open rates for emails? I know that it affected like ads and how like your targeting would work, but I have not heard about how it affects opens.

Yeah. I don't, I'm like not that into, I don't know enough about that tech to fully understand it. I know that ConvertKit had written an article about it, but I think it has to do with because of the privacy settings, that iOS now has. From my understanding, you can kind of turn off the feature. It is so— I really wish I could answer that.

It means we can't like see if they're opening it. Like iOS users, if they turn it off, we can't see if they've opened it. Opened it.

Yeah.

Potentially our rates could be higher. We just don't know.

Exactly. Yes.

Oh, that's so good to know. That makes me feel better.

Yeah. And I mean, I would say if your, if your open rates are, are pretty good to begin with and like it doesn't really matter in terms of like assessing if your emails are doing okay. If they seem very low though, it might be worth considering.

Yeah. What would you consider like a good open rate? Like, I know that this is probably like the million-dollar question, right? Um, but I'm just curious, like, what would you say? Like, what's like a range?

So I know that I've seen that, I think it's through Mailchimp actually. They have a chart and it really depends on your industry. Um, I think I'm trying to remember. I should— I wish I'd thought to look this up before. I want to say for kind of like this online business-based coaches, it's probably like minimum you'd want to have 25% open rate. I could be quoting that completely wrong, but definitely I would say if you're below 10%, then something is— you really want to reevaluate your email. And for that, it's just something as simple as looking at your subject lines and making them more enticing. There's actually Oh God, I wish I could remember. It's a headline analyzer tool. And I, I, oh, who makes that? They have like a plugin for WordPress. Ooh. Um, but they have a whole website, like a, I think if you just put subject line analyzer. Yeah.

Like Google it, like Google subject line analyzer.

Something like that. And then you can put in, it's technically for writing blog posts, making sure that they're like enticing, but you can kind of apply it to writing your subject lines a little bit to see if you know how, you know, they give you tips on words and how to make it stronger.

Okay.

That's one thing to look at.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. One of the things that was causing my, my, my rates to be lower. So I pivoted from relationship and intimacy coaching, into business coaching last year, so in 2020. So I still had a ton of people. I mean, my list is small, but like, you know, relatively speaking, a ton of people who were on there from like relationship coaching. And so whenever I made that pivot, I was like, why? Okay, what's going on here? Like, I'm talking about business. These people aren't like listening. They're not opening up, like what's happening? And then, and then it hit me. I'm like, oh yeah, like they don't care about that. Like they don't care about building a business. So I did, I went through and I like manually removed like over 100 people, I would say. And I still do that. Like I will still, if you've not opened up my emails in like 5 months, like you got to go. Sorry.

Yeah. I, I'm, you know, it brings up a really good point. Like I'm a huge proponent of keeping your email list clean. And I typically for myself do a clean out a couple of times a year. Ideally I would do it quarterly, but It's probably more realistically like twice a year. And if you're using something like ConvertKit, they have what they've defined, what they call cold subscribers and doing a re-engagement campaign. So sometimes again, like because of the iOS update, it may, someone might look like they're not opening your emails when they actually are, which is why it's good to have some sort of call to action, like click a link, respond to this email in your emails so you can get more accurate information. But definitely, keep that email list clean for a variety of reasons. One, if you, you know, I know for ConvertKit, if you're under 1,000 subscribers, you're at one price point. Once you hit 1,000, it's like 1,000 to, I don't remember where it breaks off, 3,000 or 5,000, it bumps you up in price. So especially if you're getting close to that next price point, you don't want to be paying for people who are not engaging in your list. So definitely do a list as you see yourself getting to that next point in whatever email platform you're on. The other thing is it can impact your overall deliverability. So if you— people who are just not resonating with you, not engaging with your emails, you really don't want them on your list because it might impact the people who do want to see your emails. You— it could impact them showing up in their inbox, your email showing up in their inbox. So another great reason to keep your list clean.

Yeah, yeah. Such a good reminder for that. It's not about the— I think that used to, like the big gurus used to say like, you want to have this huge email list, you want to put out this freebie, like, and push, push, push and get all these subscribers, right? And would you say that that's kind of shifted? Like it's not necessary?

Yeah. Well, just like a vanity thing, I think, you know, sometimes if you're trying to like participate in something, they're like, oh, a minimum of this many people on your list. So for that, sure, whatever, like technically you have that minimum requirement, but I'd rather have have a list of 100 people where like 70 of them are super engaged, responding, you know, using my affiliate links or booking calls with me, than, you know, 10 times that and maybe like 50 people. So, you know, I could have 1,000 people on my list, only 50 people are actually, you know, engaged. And I can have a list of 100 people and like 70— like, you know, the numbers, obviously. So you do want to pay attention to the stats for that reason.

Yeah. Yeah. That was so good. Okay. So tell us, Bev, now where, where do you come in? Like in your work as someone who actually comes in and like takes this off your hands, when and how do we know like is the time for that? Right? Like if we are like, okay, we can do it ourselves or maybe we need to hand it off. Like how do you kind of help your clients decide like when is the best time for that to happen?

Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's a couple of things. I've found some of my clients come to me because they've been using ConvertKit for years. And they're like, it is a mess. Like, I, I just, I'm trying to do all these things and they're not really working together the way I want them to, and I just don't have the time or energy to get it all sorted out. So that's one way I help people. So, um, the other main way is I have people who are like, all right, I am ready. I've had my business for a while. I get the importance of email marketing and getting out these automation setup, but I just want to hand it off to someone else who will get it all set up for me and show me how to do it.

Yeah.

And then I'm good to go. Because I think a lot of times people who come to me, they're not just starting their business. They've been around for a little bit. And they either, they need things cleaned up, or they just need it set up for them.

Right, right. Yeah. And you would help them get that like fresh start, like they're ready to go, ready to go from there. Right. Yeah. I feel like mine is like I have all these tags and like all these weird halfway like automations and I'm like, I don't even know what to do in here.

Yeah. I will say that everyone ends up with a gazillion tags. Like it's just one of the downsides I think to using ConvertKit is like I want to use a tag for all the things. And then I have too many tags and it's a giant mess and I don't even know what half of these are anymore. Like it happens to all of us. I've definitely been there.

Yeah. Yeah. I did go and I was proud of myself like earlier this year. I went through and I took out like all the webinar flows that I had started and never finished or like things that I would never do again. You know, and a lot of those I was actually able to repurpose as like, oh yeah, content or like launch content. Yes. There's a tip there. Like if you have old content, like in those sequences, like copy and paste them to your Google Docs or whatever, potentially use them for something else.

So yeah. Oh, I've definitely done that. Like I've taken broadcasts with have had a really high open and/or click-through rate. And I'm like, I am repurposing these for my automated sequences.

Yes, yes, absolutely. Okay. So Bev, whenever someone comes to you and they're like, okay, like, I'm ready to do this. What does that— this is something that holds back people that are kind of in that stage or like, all right, I'm ready to pass this off. I've been in business for a bit, like, let's do this. I'm ready to delegate this. What does that communication look like between you and your client? Like, would they write out the copy and then send it to you and then you would do the automation or would you kind of work together on what that content looks like? Um, how does that look for your work with your clients?

Yeah. So I do do some strategizing with, with the emails. I don't call myself a copywriter by any means. So I will gladly read over people's emails and give suggestions on how to make them a little stronger. I think I have more of that skill set than the actually flat out writing someone's emails for them. But it's a lot of like, here's, you know, what you might want to include in your welcome sequence. I give them sample emails that I use and let— and then if they want me to, I can go and edit them. But it's really about taking their content and putting it into ConvertKit and making sure it all flows correctly. And I'm really big on, you know, testing those automations. Like I don't care, like Doesn't— we all make mistakes. Like I do this for a living and I still sometimes like forget to turn on an automation or put the wrong tag. And then so something happens and it sends someone into the wrong automation. So like always, I haven't done it for a client. I just did it for myself once. I was like, oh my God. But like always, regardless if you're going to hire someone to do this, like just test out your, your thing, like pretend like you are a user, go and fill out your form and make sure it's doing all the things you think it should be doing. Like, does it redirect to a thank you page? Does the confirmation email get sent out? If you confirm, if you're doing a double opt-in and you've confirmed, is it then sent to like the welcome sequence? Like, just make sure it's all working correctly. That's a big part of what I do with my clients as well, to make sure and like let them know like, this is supposed to happen. And just so you know, this other thing happened instead.

Right. Right. Yeah. Do you have like your own email address in your actual newsletter. And then so then you have like, do you have, are you subscribed to your own list?

Oh yes. And then you show them my list, my client's list.

Yeah. Yeah. Like make your open rate go up.

Oh, that's funny. I do think it's funny. Cause I do think about that when I check my emails, but it's also to make sure like, oh, I just sent this email out. Let me make sure that it works.

Oh yeah. No, I'm like, no, I need the validation. Like let me go and go to all 3 of my email addresses and open up the email. From me, I'm going to get those like whatever percentage. Yeah.

It's funny cause I do that only because I don't want to like hurt myself. Not even so much so I can make the stats higher, but also the more the reverse to like for ConvertKit or Google or whatever to not think that my email is not worth reading.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

That's just, see, I didn't even know that that was an issue. Now I'm definitely going to open it up like really quick. I'm like, yeah, this is relevant. Please keep delivering. Delivering it. Yeah, that's so good. Okay. So Bev, where can our listeners connect with you if they want to come learn more about the importance of email marketing or if they're interested in handing that off or really exploring what that process would look like, where and how can they connect with you?

Yeah, you can definitely find me on my website, which is yourpersonaltechfairy.com. And you will see on that there's a free guide that you can sign up for. So if you want to get on my email list, It is ConvertKit specific, but a lot of the content I send out in my emails is more broadly email marketing automation focused. So some of it is ConvertKit specific, but some of it is a little broader. So I definitely encourage you to grab that free guide. And I'm, in terms of social media, most active on Instagram, which interestingly, Instagram and Facebook were down right before this call.

That's what was going on.

Yeah. I was like, see, another reason why you don't want to rely on I mean, I think it's pretty rare for Facebook and Instagram, and obviously they're the same business, and WhatsApp to all be down, but they were definitely down. I thought my internet was down.

And so did I. I like went in there with my husband. I'm like, is your internet working? He's like, no, it's working fine. I'm like, well, mine is not.

I had the same exact conversation with my husband. I was like, is our internet down? Because we have been having some internet issues.

Oh my gosh.

He's like, nope, it's fine.

The world that we live in, you know, like just think about like all the millions of people who just thought that their internet was down, right?

Well, Well, Facebook's not working, so obviously my internet's not working, right?

Obviously, like, the apocalypse is about to happen.

That's crazy. Oh yeah, years ago I had just launched, um, like a self-published book on Amazon, and Amazon went down that day. Like, Amazon doesn't ever go down. I'm like, of course it would go down today.

What, what was your book?

It's called The Busy Mom's Guide to Creativity.

I love it.

Yeah, it was back when I had had my jewelry business. So I was very much in that like creative world. And I still think creativity is a really important outlet, especially for, for parents of young kids.

It's a lot. It's a lot of work. Yeah.

Oh my God. Yes.

I'm just tired of telling people what to do. Like I'm just tired of telling these little humans what to do all day long. Yes. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on, Bev. I've enjoyed this. I've taken a lot from this conversation and I know that our listeners as well. So anyone listening, if you want to go and connect with Bev, see what it would look like to have someone, have the tech fairy come in and help you out with email marketing in your business, feel free to reach out to her, follow those links, join her email list. And once again, thank you so much, Bev. This has been a pleasure. I've enjoyed our conversation.

Yes, me too. Thank you so much.

Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, we will see you all in the next episode of the Aligned Coach Podcast. Come say hi on Instagram @lindsay.dopodillo. Or we now have an Instagram account out for the podcast at The Aligned Coach Podcast. Um, give us a review, let us know what you want to hear more of, and we will see you next time. Goodbye.