#22 How Sean Casey Turned His Life Around and Built a Fitness Empire

I feel like there's a, a wave of content creators that are coming along now, and they've seen people like you, they've seen people like me, and they want to do the same because they want followers or they want money, not because they're passionate about fitness or the gym. A lot of them aren't even into the gym. That most common mistake is your reaction to when you have periods of imperfection. No one is going to be perfect all the time, but if you go 500 over your calories for the day and your reaction is to think that you've ruined everything, you may as well binge all weekend. That's when you actually lose progress.

Sean Casey on the podcast.

What is going on?

Here in Marbella. How you feel, man? How long you in Marbella for?

I'm here for 2 weeks, but it was just then before we hit record there. Might stay a bit longer. You know, you go, the sun's here. I've been used to being at home in Banbridge with my dog and my family, which is great, but you get a bit of sun and you're like, I could stay a bit longer.

Like, yeah, exactly.

And so you're doing like a business event here?

Yeah, so I'm running a Social Circle event on the Tuesday, which is like a speaking event. We got a couple of different speakers, a bit of networking, and actually just going to run events all week. Like little fun things like nights out and beach days and stuff. But we got about 30 or 40 coming over from the social circle, which is good because it's a broad event. So usually people don't make the trip. We got people coming over from America and all sorts. So it's really cool. It's a really nice community.

Like, yeah, that's wild. So I did a business event last week myself, and you know, the majority of the attendees were Irish, of course, but there was a few like from America and shit. And you're just like, you're blown away. You're like, oh my God, thank you so much for making the effort. But like, I am— so the event was on Saturday, but we had like dinners and nights out and everything on the Friday and Sunday. And I think when you sandwich an event in with all these cool little extra bits, it just makes it so much more engaging and fun.

I think that's the best part is the networking and the dinners and stuff like that because talks are good, they're really good, but sometimes people can zone out if it's like talks all day. Whereas when you're around people that are doing the same thing and communicating with them, and you don't always necessarily have to take like a gem of wisdom from them, sometimes it's just about being around people that are doing well to see like, fuck, these are people are quite normal. I could do the same thing. Like, I used to put people on pedestals, like, oh, they've got a massive following, they're running businesses, they must just have something that I don't have. There's no way I could do that. And you meet everyone, you're like, everyone is just so normal. Don't get me wrong, like, they're— everyone's high achievers, and you take things from different people. But I think just normalizing people that you look up to, like, because I feel like so many people won't get to where they want to be because they always look up to people and think that they're something better than everyone else. Everyone has their own characteristics, and that's what I love about social media and Social Circle, because I've just seen so many normal people just blow up. Yeah, maybe change Lives.

Like, man, you, you give them the recipe, and I, I see people now in their kitchen with, uh, you know, with the road mic, and they're just blowing up, dropping knowledge. You've got the formula.

It's crazy.

So before we get into everything you do, you know, again, we touched on Social Circle, uh, that we're going to dive into as well. But so first of all, who is Sean Casey? What's your mission?

That's a— fuck, Rob's hit me with a deep question.

That's it, man, you're in for a good shot. This is therapy.

I, I'm honestly like, I don't know, I feel like Sean Casey's evolved over the past few years. Yeah, Sean Casey 4 or 5 years ago was a university student that took loads of drugs multiple times a week and loved partying and didn't have much else about me apart from the fact that I loved going out and drinking. And Sean Casey now has this multiple businesses, traveling all over the world, hundreds of clients, thousands of clients, my own app, millions, 6 million followers across my socials. So when I said out loud like, then you're like, whoa, this is a bit mad, but it's all It's just happened gradually, and it's happened— it's been like a natural progression. But my, uh, my, my lifestyle has changed. But I feel like as I've changed and as I've evolved, the person that I am in terms of someone that just loves the crack and is quite laid back— I'm so laid back, some people say, what is it if you're only— if you're any more laid back, you'd be lying on the grass. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Um, but yeah, it's— I've maintained the same characteristics that way, but business and travel and this, all of this. Like, we're sitting recording a podcast. I remember 2 years ago, before I came to Marbella, I was doing my cotton. I used to be in the bike watching your YouTube videos, like Marbella Vlogs. Like, now we're sitting recording a podcast together, that's just normal. So yeah, it's been, it's been mental. But I suppose my mission is to help people solve problems that I once struggled with, whether that's with fat loss, business, or social media, and also do it in a way that's fun, that's light-hearted, and that doesn't lose who I am in the process of growing and building businesses and apps, always maintaining the same person, the same characteristics, as I try and make a positive stamp on the world.

Mate, that was a, that was a bang-on answer.

I thought, yeah, there you go, man.

There's gonna be clips all day. But I love that. And so many people, they're struggling with what to make content with, you know, what, what do I talk about? And just, I often zoom back, like, so right now at the moment, I'm like developing, like, you know, a business course, kind of similar to your Social Circle, just something that, you know, I would give to my 21-year-old self. And so sometimes when you're thinking, you're like, what do I make it based on? What do I make that on? Just strip it back and you know, what would I just hand and tell to my younger self?

What did I used to need to hear?

Exactly. And so going back to your younger self, what was it like growing up in the north of Ireland? What was your family life like? And tell the people about the Holy Lands.

The not so Holy Lands.

The sinful valley.

My family life was absolutely unbelievable.

I couldn't be any more grateful for my family, everything that they've done for me. I would say I almost have the perfect family in terms of my upbringing and everything that they've done for me. But I was just a curious little fucker. Like, I wanted to see— when I was younger, I used to look at people that smoke cigarettes and I was like, I wanna, I wanna smoke just to see how hard it is to quit. Like, I wanna drink, I wanna smoke weed, I want to do everything. And like, I got that all out of my system from at a very, very young age. I didn't have any mad problems. I wasn't like a troubled I just really wanted to try everything. I wanted to do as much as possible.

Guys, smoke and drink, like, just get it all out of your system before 18.

You know what, I think that's what Americans don't do. They wait till they're 21.

That's where they're getting it wrong.

Gotta get underage drink like Irish.

Come on. But on a serious note, what I hope that young people can learn from the mistakes that I made— so like, I always think it's better to learn from other people's mistakes instead of to make the mistakes that you have. The mistakes that I made in a younger age with all the the drink and the drugs and everything like that, like, almost could have been the ruin of me. But luckily I learned from them. But then when I come on podcasts, I can laugh and joke about it. But on a serious note, I see so many people that do drink and take drugs and just completely takes over their life. It almost ruins their life, which is scary. And it's the reality in Ireland and the UK too. But the Holy Lands is, um, the Holy Lands is a student area, um, beside Queen's University in Belfast. And it is the least holy place on planet Earth. Um, so my— much of my university days were spent in the Holy Lands. Um, it's just a, it's just a session. Like, so I say I went on 3 holidays that summer. I went to Ibiza and then I went to Creamfields, and I considered the Holy Land's Freshers' Week as a holiday as well. It was just unbelievable. But yeah, I think that it's one of them things where it's great to experience it and it's great to go through it. Like, we literally lived in a shithole, like the, the biggest shithole in the world, and just drank all the time. Um, but some people, like, that, that is the ruin of them.

Some people go to university, they don't, and they don't really get out of that university.

Whereas like, for me I, I'd done that so much, I got it out of my system, and lucky I learned from it, and I'll never go back to being that person again. Um, but yeah, yeah, university and just growing up in Ireland and all that stuff, it was, it was an experience to say the least.

Yeah.

Did you finish university?

I actually did. Oh shit, you did?

Oh, that betters me.

I got a, I got a 2:1 in business. Like, I never used it, but—

well, like, I'm sure you're schooling a lot of people who were in your business course now at this stage. I actually, I tried to study business management myself. I did year 1, failed it. Like, I am If anyone's listening to this, you know, I'm so bad academically. Like, I was just typical meathead. All I could do was go to the gym. That's, you know, how I got into fitness really, as it's the only thing I was ever consistent at. But yeah, I failed first year, repeated the year again, felt like Billy Madison. I'm like, I was already old for the class.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now I'm even older.

And then failed that again. And then that was the turning point for me when I was so stagnant in my life. Going nowhere, failing and everything. And I just had to look myself in the mirror and say, Rob Lipsett, you need to just focus on something you're good at. Okay, we know what it is. It's the gym. It's the only thing you can be consistent at. How do you make a living out of bicep curls?

Yeah, yeah. And I made it work because I had no other option.

But what was the turning point for you? How did you get into fitness? How did you go from drink, drugs, and rock and roll and Holy Lands to being, uh, you know, a fitness content creator?

I was almost pushed into it, and luck has to fall in your favor sometimes. Hard work goes without saying, and you need to take action, but you have to have certain bites of luck as well. And I was getting to a stage of university where I was like, my mental health wasn't great from all the partying and stuff. Like, it catches up with you, anxiety and different things like that, and you just, you just don't feel great on a day-to-day basis. Like, you just don't feel like yourself, you feel like you lost yourself. So you want to make the change, but it's still hard to make the change because all your friends are going out drinking, taking drugs, partying. But then luckily it was January 2020, I started doing more self-development, reading and stuff. And then COVID came along, so we got put into lockdown, so I couldn't drink and take drugs. So I was like, fuck, I need to find something else to do.

Um, no fun when you're locked in the house, you know.

So, um, I started reading and then I decided, right, I'm gonna make a YouTube channel. I want to make a YouTube channel, make a video on fat loss for people in my local area, friends and family. Shared that to my personal Facebook. That was May 2020. And then from there I was just addicted to this process of creating content. I love creating content. A lot of people here creating content, it's my favorite thing to do. Yeah, I love, I love sitting down thinking of a piece of content, bring it to life, add my personality into it, posting the video. I love editing the video too. I love adding zooms to emphasize certain points. I love the full process of it. I love the creative process. And I love when you post that video and you see you sat at your kitchen table and created this video, posted it online, and you're seeing your audience come to life saying how much 'Oh, that really makes sense. Now that helps so much.' Or sometimes it just said, 'That was funny.' Yeah, got a laugh of it. Maybe they're having a bit of a shit day, they've seen your video to give them a laugh. So the full process of content creation, a lot of people complain about it and say, 'Oh, I don't want to make videos, I don't want to do this.' I love every single part of it, and that's why I've done so well. So certain bites of luck with getting pushed into lockdown and then getting on the TikTok early and blowing up and stuff like that. Yeah, but I think the ultimate thing is a passion for something and a love for it, which leads to hard work and and consistency. If you, if you love something, you're passionate about it, consistency and hard work isn't even really a question. It's not something that you, it's not something that you have to be motivated to do. Don't get me wrong, sometimes you need motivation, sometimes you don't want to do it, sometimes they go through periods of not posting as much, but for the most part I just do this because I really, really enjoy it. Same with fitness too, you don't really need motivation to go to the gym.

No, I need motivation not go. I'm like, I'm gonna feel like shit if I don't go. I'm gonna be like, if I don't go and lift weights like at least a few times a week, like minimum 3, I, I feel like this. Yeah, I'm like tensed up and I'm like you— where do I put all this anger and frustration? Yeah, where do I put this energy? So for me, and again, it sounds like such a gym head response, but oh, I'd need motivation not to go. It's actually kind of true. And I think a lot of people, if they made that flip in their mindset of saying this isn't something I have to do, it's something I get to do, you will find you don't need motivation anymore.

I've, I've went through a bit of a, like, a mindset shift recently of just extreme gratitude and gratefulness. For being able to— like, simple things. Like, I used to— like, don't get me wrong, I want my business to do well. I want to grow my business. I want to make more money. I want to grow my following. But I watched a video, um, it was an Irish guy actually on Instagram the other day, and he was in a wheelchair, and he was so grateful because his wheelchair could stand up now. He was like, my life has changed forever because my wheelchair can stand up and people don't look down at me now. He was so grateful for that. And I'm like, fuck, yeah, he just is happy that his wheelchair enables him to stand up. I mean, I'm able to sit down, stand up every day. I take it for granted. I'm able to go out for a walk. I have my family, I have my dog. So like recently I've just been like, I have everything I need, I don't need anymore. So then getting more becomes a byproduct of— I love growing my business, I love working, and I love posting content, but I'm not actually thinking about what I'm going to get from it. I'm just so grateful for what I currently have. And sometimes people say that and it sounds a bit wishy-washy, but like I genuinely mean it. Like, I don't know, over the past few weeks or months I've just been like I've seen so many stories of people my age, like, like just crazy stuff, like being told the worst news in the world. Yeah. So even just to be sitting here, to be able to go on holiday, to be able to walk— like, I was walking this morning, it's just like, I fucking love just walking. I just, it's just, I have my earphones in, I was like, I'm so glad that I'm able to do this. Like, I don't know, something's just really came over me in the past couple of months. But like, but I still love growing my business, I still love it, but it's, it's a byproduct that I'm I am much more grateful for the, the simple things, so to speak.

Yeah, there's actually a Greg Plitt quote that I always mention on this podcast. I always go back to it, and it's, it's pretty much the exact same as that. He was like, there's kids in the burns unit in hospital who would just give anything to be able to go run around and hit the gym, and you know, you're complaining about, oh, I have to go do this. And so once you have that shift in perspective it's kind of— it makes things a lot easier. It's absolutely crazy. And so in terms of— what's your total audience at now, actually?

It's like over 6 million. Yeah, you don't really—

does that ever freak you out?

Is that a little bit like— yeah, it is. It's impossible to comprehend that many people. You can't imagine 6 million people.

It's more than our population of our country.

Um, it's just gradually happened. Yeah, it's gradually happened.

So, so what— but was there You know, I know we all gradually grow our following, but was there any moment or a video or a post where you were like, oh shit, here we go, this is heating up?

Yeah, fucking right, there was. There was a few different ones. Like, there was like— so I started in May 2020, was posting on TikTok, and I was getting a bit of traction here and there. But it was the following January, January 2021, I had a few— like, it's January, everyone wants to lose weight— I had a few big headers on TikTok, gained 100,000 followers in a week. And I was like, fuck me, I was literally chinned in Ordeillons this time last year, and I gained 100,000 followers in a week. Yeah. Um, and then like the year after that, the January, I think the record again, 800,000 followers in a week once.

That's disgusting. That is absolutely insane.

Zero sense. Makes zero sense. So there's been a lot of like rockets, like jumping up and down, like weeks like that, and then it's just been gradual from there. But yeah, I think I'm definitely like the fastest growing personal trainer ever in the UK and Ireland.

Yeah, no, you fully are. It's absolutely crazy.

And so how do you— like, I'm sure when you see these, these massive rockets and these viral videos go off, you get a lot of haters. You get a lot of— it hits the Explore and people that don't know you start commenting. How do you deal with that, you know, haters online? And also, I think this will help a lot of people. How do you stop— how did you make yourself stop caring what other people think?

To make yourself stop caring what other people think, you have to be so sure of yourself and your mission and what you're posting. If you're posting stuff that you're not 100% confident in and someone calls you out on it, you're going to second-guess Yeah, you'll be like, they're probably right. Yeah, sometimes people get, get heat and criticism, and sometimes I've got criticism that's actually just been constructive criticism, especially with my recipes. I'm not a cook. Some of my recipes have made mistakes, especially at the start. The chicken's overcooked, you're not meant to do that with the pasta. If I said it, every single person here is a hater, like, fuck them. I would have never got better at cooking and making food. But at the same time, sometimes people are just being mean and nasty for no reason at all. They're just vile people online. And for that, you have to be— you just have to be sure of what you're posting. You have to be sure of yourself. So then no one can really say anything that's going to offend you or annoy you. But you're human, you care what other people think, you care what other people think too, so you just have to get, get on with it sometimes.

Yeah, I, I love that thing about constructive criticism. It's so easy to just call everyone a hater.

Yeah, but there's so many people do that about too many people.

There was one, um, comment, there was a few in particular. I think it was like around maybe 2017, 2018 when I, I started getting a little bit of success and I was like partying and I beat it too much. I was like, you know, going too long without uploading, not, not being like— my whole thing is fitness, you know. I absolutely love fitness. Like, that, that is the thing I can answer a question on everything. Like, I can answer any question on fitness. And I was just partying too much and not being true to myself. And there was a comment that was like, hey Rob, I'm starting to not recognize you, you're starting to lose yourself a little bit, you need to get back to doing what you do best, which is, you know, teaching people about training, nutrition. And that, that comment like really got to me. And I was like, that is constructive criticism. And I was like, it's time to go monk mode for a little bit. And you know, just get, get back into the gym and the run of everything. So I love that about like, yeah, just not calling everyone a hater.

Yeah, you need, you need to be able to take that on because when you start, especially if you have a following and stuff, a lot of people start to think that they're invincible and everything that they say is right. And anyone that's like to get them is just, uh, it's just negative. And people said like, oh, people, people only punch up, people only punch up, they never punch down. And that's true to a certain extent, but what you— what I begin to understand as well, then people that are supposedly punching up are my audience, the people that I care about, the people that I'm creating content for.

Yeah.

So just because they don't have followers or a super business, like, doesn't mean that their opinion doesn't matter. So I do really value the opinion, but you need to be logical and separate someone's opinion that is valuable from someone that's just being a hater that's just giving you criticism for absolutely no, no purpose.

Exactly. Like, if someone just is cursing you out, like, wanker, shit, bollocks, you're just like, all right, this is a bot. Like, this doesn't make any sense. But if someone's leaving a thoughtful comment, you know, keep it on board. And what you said there as well, like, judging people— there's two, two things, signs of a bad person, right? If you're rude to the waiter and if you treat people with followers differently.

Yeah, that's the, that's the two things that are just like the worst character traits ever.

So Right, you're starting to get, um, crazy views on videos, gaining a lot of traction. And now, you know, I'm not slagging them off, but they're not— they're just done on your phone. They're very like off the cuff.

They're fucking shit.

They're terrible.

No, but seriously, um, what is, um, what's your formula? Bring me through the hook, the content creation, everything. How do, uh, me and the audience, how do we all get some bangers like that?

It firstly stems from being really, really good and knowledgeable in what you do. I feel like there's a wave of content creators that are coming along now and they've seen people like you, they've seen people like me, and they want to do the same because they want followers or they want money, not because they're passionate about fitness or the gym. A lot of them aren't even into the gym that much, but it's like a trend that people jump on. Yeah, they're just creating content. So firstly, you need to be really knowledgeable in what you do. You need to understand the nuances of what you're talking about so you can actually hold— like, if someone, if someone challenges you on something, you're going to be able to hold a conversation about it. But then of course you need to structure your content in a way— like, there's a lot of really smart people and their content's shit, Yeah, because the first 3 seconds of your video, you need to say something that captures people's attention and makes them want to stay. And it can't be like, here's a fat loss tip, because no one, no one cares about that. Yeah, you could probably get away, or I could get away with doing that because people know and trust us. Yeah, but if you're like a new personal trainer and you're like, here's a fat loss tip, they've heard it over and over again. So fat loss is a section, but a subsection to fat loss would be something like appetite control, and a sub-subsection would be something like meal timing. So instead of your hook being about fat loss, or the subsection. It needs to be about the sub-subsection, and you need to make it so specific. The best hook is not just the one that's the most attention-grabbing, it's the one that's most unique, because people want stuff that they haven't seen before. So if you want your hook to do well, it needs to be something that people haven't heard before. Now everyone talks about the same things, but you need to find a way to talk about it in a different way, put your own spin on things. Yeah, so you need to hook people in. Once you hook people in, they're looking for an answer. You don't want to give them the answer until the mid or end of the video. As soon as they give the answer, they're, they're aware. But at the same time, you don't want to stretch it out and feel like they're waiting for an answer. You want to give them important information that's actually valuable, but then give them what they need here, and then what they want is at the answer is at the end.

Okay, so that's how you kind of do the beginning, middle, end.

Yeah.

Okay, that, that's a really good way to think about as well, like not putting the answer at the very last minute. It's just going to piss people off. But of course, not giving it away. If people watch a video for longer, does that like put it on the Explore more.

If you think about it this way, what do social media platforms want? They want people to spend time on their app. They don't care if people are just liking and then scrolling off. So the way in which videos get pushed is by watch time. You need people to watch as much of your video as possible, watching from the start to the end. Like, share, saves— they don't matter that much. It's watch time that matters for social media views and for your videos to get pushed out.

Okay, right, because I knew that was true with YouTube. You're, you're literally paid on not views, you're paid on watch time. So if you've like, uh, podcasts, like, kill it on YouTube because people are watching for 3 hours. I don't imagine Joe Rogan's revenue on YouTube is probably like the highest there is, but like, so you can have a video— that's why you don't get paid much for Shorts on YouTube. If you have a, like, a Short with a million views, it doesn't actually get that much. So I knew that was true for YouTube, but I actually didn't know that for short-form content. So that's very interesting. And in terms of video ideas, how— what is your process on brainstorming and coming up on video ideas? Because this is something I struggle with as well. What I try to do is like I'll look at, you know, my last 100 pieces of content. I'll just literally click, like, sort, sort from top. You have your top 10 and then do more of them. But, you know, that can get a little bit repetitive. So what's your process for coming up with new ideas as well?

See, if you— have you ever tried to sit down and come up with video ideas? It doesn't work. Like, you just sit down with a notepad and you'll just fucking stare at it for hours on end. I've got notes on my iPhone. I'll be— it'll be like 2 o'clock in the morning, I'll be like— I don't, I don't sleep at 2. Why am I saying that? I sleep at about half 11, 12. But regardless, I'll be falling asleep, just about to say content out of your fucking to get up, jot this down. So, um, it's, uh, it's, it's notes in your iPhone that come to you at the most random times. Jot them down and then go from there. See, if you just try and sit down and come up with content ideas, it never ever works. Yeah, so they come to you at the most bizarre times. And then often I'll just walk around the kitchen and then set a camera down and just hit record and go. I often don't plan— I don't script content, I don't plan it that much, um, but I've done it for so long that I can almost get away with doing that. But definitely at the start, notes in your iPhone and like a rough structure with it.

Okay, nice. I, I I like that simple approach. I thought you were gonna like give some—

there's no mod approach for that. There's no mod. It's just, you just— it's repetition and getting good at what you do. Like, I just recorded a video yesterday and I didn't— I was just like, oh yeah, I'll talk about that, and just hit record. Got someone— actually got me to record it for me. Just record this, record this. And then I just— I don't know what I'm gonna say until I hit record.

Okay, nice. Because I was gonna ask, do you ever script videos?

Never. But I think a lot of people should. A lot of people benefit from scripting. But I think that your, your personality— and there's a lot more depth to your content if you can just sit down and, and talk from the heart instead of scripting. A lot of people sound quite robotic on the script.

Yeah, that actually kind of happened to me yesterday. I like was recording videos just outside in the back garden, and there was one I like scripted it totally, and I was like, I watched it back and it was just so robotic, no flair. And sometimes you throw in these like random funny bits that only just come to you, but if you stick to script, you're like, oh, I can't go off this, and it ends up just sound a little bit robotic. So I think the best thing to do is just speak about a topic you know and maybe have like some bullet points to it.

Bullet points. And record too much rather than too little oftentimes, right? See, when I have a minute and a half video, yeah, I have 30 minutes of footage. I just let it roll the full time and then I'll cut that 30 minutes down to 4 or 5 and then be like, right, I said that there and then I sort of repeated it there. You want the most amount of information, the least amount of time possible. So if you say something there and then said in a different way there, that's basically unnecessary information taking up time in your video. So cut that out, cut that out. But I always say too much rather than too little, so then I can cut out and change the order of it so it works well.

Okay, very nice. And now, so in terms of actually growing a following, subscribers, like getting the audience up, what is the most important factor there? Because I noticed as well, and I used to— I was used to be kind of against this, but then you changed my mind on this. You're like, hey, you know, you openly say follow for more. In the videos. I used to be kind of against that, you know. Does that really work? You know, what's your best tips on actually growing followers?

Yeah, that—

not views, like followers.

Yeah, that definitely converts the most amount of people. So there's that, and then there's just creating quality content that people really, really connect with. It's probably the best way. But a subtle CTA— that, um, the thing is, CTAs can be what I describe as stingy. They're not providing any value. CTA is a call to action. They're not providing value. And sometimes when someone does a CTA, you're a bit like, that just sort of ruined your video.

Yeah.

Whereas like, I'll usually add a bit of humor and personality to my CTAs So I'm like, uh, if you want to be a bit less fat without hating your life, hit the follow, join the movement. So it, so it's like, it's fun to listen to, whereas a lot of people are like, hey, make sure to hit follow for more content. Like, you're like, oh, fuck off, mate, would you? So like, there's a way in which to do it, but they definitely do make a massive, massive difference. There's, there's no doubt about that for sure.

And so I actually got this question, and they're like, hey, is there— I'd like to hear your take on it— is there any way to get big in the fitness industry nowadays without like going all in on social media? To be honest, my answer was not really.

I don't have a way to do it because that's all I know. I'm sure there's, there's probably ways in which that you can go about growing a fitness business, but in my opinion, it's not going to be as fun. You're going to have to cold DM lots of people and run ads and stuff, whereas like, see if you—

I've never run an ad.

No, either have I. See if you're passionate about your message.

That's me anyways. I pay this guy like 10 grand It's too— I got no returns.

Yeah, I've— no, I actually— I did do ads a few years ago and I just didn't see the hype. I was like, why? I, I could just do like organic and get 10 times more and not have to pay for it.

Exactly.

Um, but what was the question? Oh yeah, there's probably ways to do it. But see, if you're actually passionate about your message and you care about it, why would you not want to create content? Yeah, why would you not want to get that message out to— because everyone thinks that their message is the best. Yeah, no one's message is the best. Everyone does their message because it's what's worked for them. But we need different variations because different people are going to connect with different people. So in my opinion, if you, if you've changed your life, why would you not want to help other people to do the exact same thing as well? So I think content creation is a beautiful thing as long as you're doing it for the right reasons.

Yeah. And the answer is always like, okay, yeah, you can build a physical gym and coach people there. Will your gym do better if it has 50,000 followers? Obviously.

Yeah.

Yeah, the answer is always it's better. You know, nowadays with social media It's the king platform. It's better than radio, TV, magazines. It's the king. So my answer to that person was, no, you can't really get to the top. And everyone at the top has like 10 million followers because they're really good at what they do. It's like the expertise comes first and then the following will come with that. Another one I always say, like, you know, like footballers or athletes or something, they have like 15 million followers or something. It's because they're really good at the thing. It's not because they're really good at social media. So instead, like, become really good at the thing instead, and then the rest will come.

A lot of people skip that step. A lot of people want the followers and they forget that in order to gain the followers, you actually have to be good at what you do. They're like, oh, I— what, what's wrong with my hook? Or what's wrong with my CTA? Mate, you're literally just shit. You've done your PT qualification like 2 weeks ago, like, and you think that you're that you're going to be unreal from the start. But yeah, at the same time, embrace shitness. Yeah, embrace that you're going to be bad at something at the start, because the only way that you're going to get better at something is through repetition. Yeah, that's the only way. Like, I was shit at the start, but I just kept going and going and going. A lot of people aren't amazing content creators after like 2 or 3 months, and they're like, I'm just going to give up.

Yeah, it's like, uh, it's the same with anything, you know. When people don't see these immediate returns, they just— especially in today's world, everyone's lost patience. I think it's because of TikTok.

It's your fault.

You've killed everyone's attention.

I'm just a fan. But when they don't see these immediate results, they end up just giving up. And so back to the fitness industry, what are some problems that you see in today's world, in today's fitness industry?

People that are too stuck in their own ways and have a definite answer for everything, for everyone, thinking one person should do the same diet or the same approach. The answer with nearly every single fitness question should always be, it depends. 'Should I do intermittent fasting?' It depends. 'Should I track my calories?' It depends. 'Should I follow keto?' It depends. Some people might do keto because they've got epilepsy and then that can help them with it. Some people genuinely like it. The answer to almost everything is usually 'it depends.' And don't get me wrong, you have to have bias towards something. For me, I got a bias towards calorie tracking. I got a bias towards resistance training. Calorie tracking, resistance training, and steps. I think that's the best way for the majority of people.

I just dropped a reel on that. They're like my top 3. I think we we come from the same camp.

Yeah, so that's my bias. Um, but I don't come on and say everyone has to do that. I understand that there's multiple different ways to get this one, like, different results. And the issue is as well, a lot of people selling that, that's as the principle, you have to intermittent fast to lose weight. It's like, no, you don't. The only way you lose weight is through a calorie deficit. There's umpteen different things that you can do to create that. So I think too many people being stuck in their, their ways and black and white thinking is the biggest issue because it just confuses people.

Yeah, there's like, uh, you know, the carnivore diet. I think that's probably the biggest fitness diet trend of 2024. It's like, it has so much good things about it, like sticking to whole nutrient-dense foods, lots of meat and protein. It gets so many things right. And then when they just start fearmongering over oats and vegetables, I'm like, oh, like, you have to go ruin a good thing.

I'm like, I'm really interested to see the long-term, the long-term evidence on that. Because it is such a new thing. And like, like, don't get me wrong, I see people that do the carnivore diet and they completely— they transform their health and stuff like that.

Yeah, because they're eating high protein and they're in a deficit, which is great.

But almost all of the evidence like points towards eating plenty of color, eating fiber, eating protein, and just not being silly, like helping balance with it. And even there was your guy, the Carnivore MD, who was full carnivore and then he changed up, started introducing carbs and stuff, even though he wrote a book about how you shouldn't do that. And yeah, it's all like, I was having these health issues, so So super interesting to see in the next few years. But if someone does a carnivore diet, it works for them, you're running the risk of potential long-term effects, but it's going to be better than the standard diet most likely. Um, but I just think for the most part, if people can just apply a bit of common sense and have some balance, it's going to be a much better way to go about the full situation.

Yeah. What do you think about veganism?

You know, I, I don't mind veganism. Like, I don't— I'm not— I'm not— I couldn't do a vegan diet myself personally, and I think a lot of people that do vegan diet start to lack nutrients in terms of protein. But there's certain people that are like, like based on the vegan diet.

Yeah, but they're the genetic outliers.

But there was your guy that went on Joe Rogan and he rinsed your other guy. Did you ever see that?

Which episode?

It was the Game Changers one. Um, he actually like, he, he won that argument. But I, I think the vegan diet can be done wrong. Lots of diets can be done wrong. It can also be done right. Like, there's certain— like, some of my clients and stuff like that are vegan. So I'm very much, uh, each their own. Find a diet that works for you, and as long as you can sustain that long term, and as as you're actually— you need a lot more knowledge to successfully do a vegan diet. Yeah, the nutrients and get the protein and stuff like that. But if you can do that, I have no, no issue with it.

Yeah, I've had a few vegan clients before and the things that I just like do straight away, I'm like, okay, you know, as long as you're hitting your calories and macros, that's absolutely fine. Let's perhaps get a vegan protein powder in there to make things a little bit easier. Let's have, you know, some B vitamins, whatever kind of else you need to supplement things. And when you kind of just tick all the boxes, then, then it's fine. Yeah, yeah, and that's it. And so you've got The Social Circle, which is your kind of social media business coaching in a way.

Yeah.

And then what are the other projects that you've got?

I've got Clean Up, which is my brand new app. So, so I built that from scratch, uh, this about a year ago. Yeah, um, me and Evan Daly went in a business together to do that. So it's basically everything that I talk about in social media put into one place. It's a really, really cool app, really cool community. We had our first in-person meetup, um, a few weeks ago in Bray actually, uh, which is a lovely spot. I've never, I've never actually been.

Right, Marbella.

Yeah, basically that's the thing, choose your fighter. Um, but yeah, so that's going absolutely unbelievable. And then I've got 4 recipe ebooks. I've done like, I went through the rankings. I've done in-person coaching, one-on-one online coaching, group coaching, and then I launched my own app. I've done recipe ebooks, I've done the Social Circle, I've done one-on-one business coaching. So I probably had about 8 or 9 businesses in total, but I've got 3 main active ones at the minute.

Okay, so wait, what is the 3? You got Gleane, uh, Oh, the ebooks. Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's actually what I started out on in my whole fitness journey. I like made a website on WordPress, you got some graphic designer out in Brazil to design it for me, and then I put 2 ebooks on it and they were about— I think you could buy both of them for 50— both of them for €30 and then individually one for €20 each. So I was like, yeah, package deal, get the 30. And I remember when I made my first I was like so ecstatic. I was like, I've escaped the matrix.

I've escaped the matrix. And back before it was a thing.

And it's just, it's a crazy feeling. And so look, I'd say you're clearing a lot of money per month, right? You're doing very well. What does a young lad, what age are you now actually?

24.

That's crazy, man. What's a young lad at 24, what do you spend your money on?

I like to spend my money on experiences, and I like to spend my money on things that make me feel good, other people. I bought, I bought Mom a Tesla first, and then I bought my little sister a car for her 17th, and I bought my other sister a car. So we've got that and the other sister waiting on cars. I paid off my parents' mortgage, and then stuff like this, traveling, traveling to Marbella. But I'm not, I'm not that materialistic in terms of like my clothes and stuff like that. I have got like one watch. Yeah. So I don't spend a lot of money. Apart from on experiences and other people. I like to do a lot for charity and like, like the GoFundMes and stuff. I'll usually give to them because I'm like, if I'm in a position to do so, I would like to do that. Um, but I think that a lot of people would be fucked if they had the money. If I only discovered cocaine now, it would be an issue.

It would be an issue.

Like, I'm glad that I got that all out of my system.

Finally, he's been waiting just so long to get it off his chest.

Um, but no, honestly, I just couldn't afford enough of it back in the day. But, but, but in fact I was taking it, I'd be fucked. Like, um, so thankfully not cocaine. Um, but, uh, yeah, just other people's experiences. And I think it's just nice to be in a position where you never have to worry about money, but at the same time you don't let it go to your, your head too much. And, uh, like, I'll get into property and different bits and pieces like that too. And because I want to set myself up, like, social media, everything's going well at the minute, but you're at the mercy of the algorithm. Like, I could get cancelled next week. Like, yeah, you never know.

Exactly.

I'm gonna leak all your secrets that you've been telling me before the podcast. He's some crazy shit, honestly. And so in terms of investments, you mentioned property. Where are you looking at buying? Because one thing I think is really cool about you is you can clearly move out, but you choose to live at home with your family. I love living at home. Yeah, that's so nice. Like, that's so humble, you know?

Yes, but I will look back on this period of my life in like 10, 15 years and just be so thankful that I spent time with my family, with my dogs. I really enjoy living at home. Like, I could build my own house right now. I've wanted to, but there's no point in living in my own house by myself and being, you know, like, not with my family if that's something I could— like, I'm only 24. Yeah, I've got time. So I'll buy properties or rent them out. I got— so, like, I'm not, like, I'm not that, uh, like, super interested in property, but I'm like, if I can move money, uh, into that, um, so then I can set myself up for the future for, for if everything does go wrong, you know what I mean? I'm being smart with it. There's no point in me spending all this money now on unnecessary stuff when I can use this to set myself up for life. So then I've got a safety net, so then I can genuinely just do whatever I enjoy. But I'll always run like my social media. Yeah, I'll always do what I'm doing at the minute in terms of work because I love it. But at the same time, I'm not going to be reliant on it. Like if everything went wrong tomorrow, then I'm like, I'm fucked. So like I'm being very smart with money. I'm not spending a lot of it apart from on stuff that I really want to spend on. And then I'm spending the rest on just setting myself up for life, basically.

Nice. There's a villa beside me if you want to be my neighbor.

You want to renovate? Honestly, man, I will. I'm not even joking.

But yeah, one that probably— well, I mean, probably the biggest purchase I've ever made in my life was obviously like the villa here in Marbella and renovating that. And I thought I wasn't into property until you start renovating. And it's— some people, they don't like it, you know, it stresses them. I absolutely loved it. I was like just seeing the progress daily and like I was always in there. Yeah, the Instagram as well. And it was just like a really satisfying satisfying thing. So yeah, property, property is dope to get into. And then going back to Glean, right? So what is the first things— I want to go back to the fitness as well, but the first things that you would tell someone to do when they sign up with you?

Glean actually means— it doesn't mean get lean. A lot of people think it means get lean.

We were— I didn't even think that.

We were, we were originally brainstorming ideas and we had loads of generic ones, but the marketing team was like, you need something a bit more unique. And they were giving us loads of names and different things and like, like random names. We're like, nah, nah, nah. And then me and Evan both heard Glean. We're like, fuck, we actually really like that. But when you look up what Glean means, it means to gather information bit by bit. So when someone joins Glean, we're not overwhelming them with all the information. We're like, right, here's your calorie goal, here's your protein goal, here's steps, and then start with that. Workouts too, if you're in a position to do so. And then as the weeks go on, we talk about fiber, we talk about micronutrients, we, we talk about all the stuff that's important that you need to know, but we start with the very, very basics. So where, as I said, predominantly we encourage calorie tracking. But if not calorie tracking, then some sort of meal structure, some sort of portion control, um, strategy. But it's basically awareness around calories is the most important thing, and then everything else comes, comes from that after.

Yeah, and sometimes, like, I hate to harp on about it, but it's just the truth that, like, the, the amount of calories you eat per day is, like, the most important thing. And yeah, when I'm, like, start working with someone, obviously, first of all, it depends on where are they in the scope of beginner to advanced? And like, if they're like obese, literally starting out, to get someone tracking every single thing in their app can be like terrifying. It can be daunting, you know, it might be quite uncomfortable as well. So like for the first week or two, I might say like, hey, you know, let's just clean up, make better choices, let's just cook more meals. And because the last thing you want to do is just dive into the deep end and as we kind of spoke about earlier, get burnt out and just say screw this. And so you've, uh, coached a lot of people, via, via not only like ebooks and apps, you've probably done some one-on-one and everything.

Yeah.

What are some of the most common nutrition and also training mistakes that you see people make starting out? What's going on, guys? This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Does the year seem like it's going really fast? Well, sometimes it's important to slow down, take stock, and celebrate your wins and what you've achieved so far in the year. Getting therapy can do that. Think about it as going to the gym for your mind. We put all this effort into our physical endeavors, but oftentimes we neglect what's going on in here, which is so, so important. It is completely online and it is designed to be flexible, convenient, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire online to get suited to your ideal therapist, and then you can go from there. It's so easy to do, and I couldn't recommend it enough, especially as guys. Sometimes we need to open up and get some stuff off our chest. So take a moment, go to betterhelp.com/gameplan to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/gameplan. Go check them out.

The most important, or the most common mistake, is your reaction to when you have periods of imperfection. No one is going to be perfect all the time. But if you go 500 over your calories for the day and your reaction is to think that you've ruined everything and you may as well binge all weekend, that's when you actually lose progress. It's never the one event, but it's your reaction to that. So anytime that you do have a bit of a slip up or you do go over your calories slightly, if you can react by just going back to normal, that's the difference between people that get long-term results and those that don't. It's not never making mistakes, but it's your reaction to them. Like, there's 3,500 calories in a pound of fat, so you'd have to eat above that. So if my maintenance, my maintenance is like 3,000, I'd have to eat nearly 7,000 calories to gain a pound. So go a few hundred over for the day, just get back to it.

Yeah. People also forget, like, if they're in, um, they're in a deficit and then they go over that, it's like, not only did you not hit maintenance, like, you're probably still in a bit of a deficit. So people freak out. And an analogy that changed my entire view on exactly that, it was, if you drop your phone on the ground, would you pick it up or would you stamp on it like 10 times?

You got a flat tire, would you change it or would you stab the other 3?

Like, when I— the phone one particularly, because we're all fucking obsessed with our phones. When someone said that to me and I dropped that thing the whole time, I'm surprised it's in one piece.

Screens are way better. It's bulletproof.

It's like a Nokia 3310. But when I drop it, I'm like, you know, it's just the perfect analogy for me. And so if you ever, uh, and then you look at percentages, right? Like let's say you're on cutting calories, 2,500, and you eat like a Mars bar, that's 200. Divide 200 into that amount. It's like a percentage.

It's fucking old.

Yeah. The most common things that I've seen are meal timing, people obsessing over it, be it intermittent fasting, 6 meals a day, thinking that they need to have like the post-workout anabolic window covered. Just people stressing about meal timing so much. And that was me when I was like a college student. I'd be like prepping all my meals, like 6 a day, going into college with them. This is before I dropped out. Like, I remember one day I even brought like a protein shake in in and it spilled all over my books. And I was like, I have to do it. It's just making my life miserable over the clock, being a slave to the clock. Another one is, um, secret eating. There's this show on, uh, I think it's E4, whatever. You can look it up on YouTube if you just search up Secret Eaters. And it has given me more awareness and education than any, like, course or study or anything. You just, um, it basically, it's like a show that follows overweight people that puts like cameras in their house and asks them to report back on how much they're eating. And they report saying like, I'm eating 2,000 calories a day. And then like, if they fact-check it, they see all the clips and they're eating like 8,000. So people, even when they hire a coach and they check in with you, and you're like, you always know when there's something up, you know, people are just not being, being honest with themselves.

And sometimes they're not even doing it on purpose. Just like a lot of people that struggle to lose weight underestimate how many calories are eaten, and people that struggle to gain weight overestimate how many calories are eaten, because genetically everyone's different. Like, it does come down to calories in, calories out, but genetics play a part in your appetite and how much you actually want to eat. Yeah. So that's, that's what it's not— it's usually not to do with metabolism, it's more to do with your genetics and how hungry you are. Yeah. But people do, they massively underestimate how many calories they're actually And the same when you do start tracking, you don't have to track for life, but it just brings so much awareness to it.

Yeah. So one thing, uh, I had like, you know, I do a little bit of one-on-one clients still, you know, usually take on maybe like 20 guys, you know, every, every couple of months. And so one guy, like, we would— if you just weren't seeing results and he was telling me he's eaten this much, and I was like, it just like is not adding up. And I go, can you send me a picture, like on your phone, just snap a picture to me on top of like what you're— you're MyFitnessPal screenshots or whatever. You snap a picture of me and like show me what you're eating. and the meals were just like massive, covered in mayonnaise.

Yeah, yeah, sauce as well.

There was—

I was like, this just looks like a takeaway, and then they'd log it as like, you know, chicken and rice.

So that, that's the second most common thing I see. The third most common thing, and this might piss a few people off, is people thinking they're eating too much healthy foods, and people thinking that these healthy foods have like no calories in them, and they can just like like eat as much sweet potato, peanut butter, you know, steaks and vegetables too.

Beautiful. Like, if you're, if you're polishing off one of them every day, like 700 calories, you're, you're fucked.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And so look, the world is currently is facing an obesity crisis, you know, people are more out of shape than ever. What do you think is the root cause of it? It's a bit— it's a big debate, you know.

I think it's, uh, it's way too, it's way too nuanced to say that there's one thing that's the root cause. There's going to be a lot uh, determinant factors. Um, the food, the accessibility to food is a massive one. If you want to overeat, uh, 100 years ago, it would be very hard because you only had access to certain foods. But if you want to overeat now, you can order Uber Eats and all that stuff. So the accessibility to food means that people are more like— look, at the end of the day, obesity is caused by people consuming too many calories. That is not a debate. But the debate is what's causing people to consume too many calories. And I think a lot of it is the accessibility to a lot of highly processed, ultra-processed foods. Ultra-processed foods in moderation are completely fine. They're not harmful. But when that makes up the majority of your diet, you're going to be consuming way too many calories. But then there's genetics as well. There's mental health. There's how people cope with trauma. There's like so much factors that goes into why someone is obese. The house that they were born into. I would be fat too if my parents fed me lots of food. I love food. Yeah, I have an unlimited appetite. I would just eat what's in front of me. So how can you look at a child that's maybe 13, 14 and says, it's, it's their fault, it's the parents' fault for what they've been feeding them. So like the house that you're born into, your economic status, the— like some people only have access to a certain amount of money. Sometimes the processed foods are, are cheaper or more affordable. Um, again, you could probably find healthy, um, foods that are cheap as well, but some people that they don't have much knowledge in nutrition, they're just going with what's cheap. So economic status, mental health, um, like they're— I could probably list about 10 or 20 there's hundreds of things that go into the obesity epidemic, but we just need to look at what's driving people to consume more calories, uh, than they burn.

Yeah, I— all those things I fully agree with. I think if I had to choose one, which like there isn't one, but if I— I think the biggest factor is what you mentioned first, and it's just the availability of highly palatable foods. And so I heard, I think it was like Lay Norton who said that's what he thinks as well. But I was driving through Texas and Every— when I mean like there was a row of shops, 10 rows of shops, and 10 of them were just fast food. Like, it's crazy. I've never seen anything like it.

I think portion sizes in America are ridiculously huge.

Yeah.

So I think that would be like the number one reason. But look, hopefully the world is gonna— it's gonna— the tides are gonna change. And so another trend that I've seen—

Join Glenn and I'll solve it for everyone.

So another trend I've been seeing a lot, kind of on that topic, is Ozempic. Have you heard about that? Yeah. And so what's your take on that? Because it's kind of got a lot of people divided. Personally, I think it's good.

So I think that Ozempic is good for people that really, really need it. I don't think that Ozempic should be taken before a holiday or before you've tried everything else. Ozempic is for them genetic outliers that really struggle with appetite. They've maybe already lost 50 kg.

Yeah.

And from losing 50 kg, they are— they have another 40 kg to lose. But they feel how you or me feel if we just done a photo shoot, like that level of leanness, shreddedness, appetite completely up. So that's why you need to think about it. They have still— they've lost 50 kg, they've got 40 left to lose, and they feel like someone that's absolutely shredded in terms of their appetite and how much they want to eat. So something like Ozempic or a different weight loss drug can help them control their appetite so that they can sustain a calorie deficit. It's not a magical solution just to lose weight, and I think that a lot of people are abusing it. Uh, it's a drug that's used for diabetics as well. A lot of them don't have access to it because there's too many people that don't really, really need it. So a lot of people say, oh, weight loss drugs are cheating, or they're just— they're bad. They're not. They're for people that really need them, because obesity is, is complex. And there is a lot of people that have lost lots of weight and still have more to lose, and medical intervention can be helpful. And it's not— it's not useful to shame these people.

Yeah.

But at the same time, we need to understand that this is not a weight loss drug that's just to be taken by every Tom, Dick, and Harry.

Bodybuilders. Yeah, yeah. As soon as bodybuilders, us meatheads, get our hands on it, we're like, oh, for God's sake, why'd you have to ruin it for everyone, guys?

You don't need it before you go to Marbella.

But I'm actually all for it. Um, I, I watched, uh, Chris Williamson and Johan Hari or something, they did like a full episode on it. And yeah, it's, it's just a tool. And I think if, if it helps people control their appetite, like, and yeah, there may be some side effects, but the side effects are a lot better than the effects of being obese. That's the thing, like, it can come with nasty side effects as well.

So like, the side effects are better than, than dying early from obesity, or all the harmful effects to obesity. But if you're someone that has a little bit of weight to lose, the side effects are not worth taking it. So, um, yeah, like everything, my favorite word is nuance. It's nuanced, and usually it depends. Yeah.

So talk to me about body image. I know you've done a few posts recently on that. What is your own body image like, and what would your advice be to someone struggling with their body image?

My own body image at the minute is actually great. Like, I've went through stages of like getting super, super shredded. Like when I originally done like my first ever cut, like I just knew about a calorie deficit and like I was like, I'm just going to stay on this. This is sick.

Like, look at the shape that I'm getting.

And I just stayed on a calorie deficit for like ages because I didn't know any different and I was getting results. I got absolutely shredded and then I got used to get shredded every summer, even like 2 years ago when I was coming to Marbella. I would have got really, really lean for it. But what we need to understand is for certain personal trainers, that can actually be a good thing to do because this is what I was talking about. Different people have different audiences that are interested in different things.

Yeah, so I actually think our audience is quite different. Yeah, like when you actually break it down. But go on.

Some people doing like a photo shoot or getting super lean or something like that can have a benefit because that's their audience, that's their lifestyle, and that's what they're really, really into. But for me, my audience is mostly sort of 30 to 60-year-old, predominantly women, people that have jumped from—

Yeah, that's interesting. I was about to ask that.

What's the percentage of people that jump from— it's like 60/40. It's not like—

it's not—

but people that have jumped from that to that their whole life, and they get absolutely nothing by watching me do a photoshoot prep or get super, super shredded. So for me, getting really lean has no positives to my business or my social media or anything. And if anything, people like someone that's a bit more relatable, maybe has a slight bit more body fat. Yeah, I'm really happy with the shape. I mean, I'm 92 kg and I'm like, like, I would, I would be shredded at 86, 87. Yeah, I'm only sitting a few kg above that. So my main focus is on what my body can do. I train a lot of CrossFit, which I used to slag off, but I fucking love it now. Yeah, I really, really enjoy CrossFit. I enjoy trying to get fitter, trying to get stronger, all that stuff. So for me, shifting the focus from what my body looks like to what it can do, um, really helped me. But I don't come on and shit on people because they want to do a photo I want to get like most of my— like, I'm living with Owen at the minute, who's literally only after the photo shoot. His appetite's up the left. Like, I think he's doing a 10,000 calorie challenge today. I'm like, lad, you should have watched my videos. But, um, but yeah, um, I'm friends with lots of bodybuilders and people, so I'm not gonna shit on people that get super lean. But I'm just really happy that I'm not— I don't feel like I have to do that anymore. And I like getting a little bit lean. Like, I'd like to be slightly leaner than I am at the minute. I like— because I like around your face too. It's not just about your body. I'm the same. See if I gain too much, uh, body fat. Yeah, like, I don't, I don't like how I look. I don't like how I look. Sometimes I watch old videos back, I'm like, fuck, you took the bulk too far. So there's a happy medium with it. I'm not like anti, like, getting lean, but I'm not going to sacrifice the quality of my life to get super, super shredded.

Yeah, totally. When I, when I've got like, you know, someone sign up and I'm chatting to them and we're setting some goals, I'm like, all right, here's this sweet spot that we need to get to. It's easy for you to answer like, oh, I want to be 8%, but I'm like, you need to get somewhere that you feel good at, that you can sustain like most of the time, you know, majority of the time, and that you perform good at as well. You know, you're— you can still lift heavy in the gym and still have great sessions. So they're kind of like the 3 boxes I tend to aim for, which for guys is usually around— I won't even say 10, I'll say like between 11 to maybe 15%. And but like what we're saying with the, uh, well, maybe 10, 15. But like what we're saying with the demographics, my audience is 96% male. It's great, but it's so good because like for in terms of getting clients and everything. So my— I can spot if someone follows me if they walk down the street.

They're wearing Alphalete, they've got a fade, and they're like pretty jacked, and they're Irish.

So, so I kind of give my advice— I've got, I've got one for you in a minute— my advice is a little bit more tough love, you know, and that's just like our different approaches. So kind of like with your demographic, you need to keep in mind who you're speaking to. And so what is your advice for somebody that, that is struggling with their body image?

Well, my advice— I think it's different for everyone and it depends, as usual. But my advice would be start to focus on what your body can do. And don't— I don't, I don't think that body positivity gets it right. What I prefer is body neutrality. See, if you're looking at yourself in the mirror— nice, this is a new one— if you're looking at yourself in the mirror to, I'm trying to tell yourself that you feel amazing even though you're massively overweight. You don't like how you look. You genuinely don't like how you look. Trying to tell yourself that you're really happy with how you look is lying to yourself instead of, of hate. But hating yourself at the same time, that does you no favors. Yeah. So instead, you could feel neutral about it. You could look at yourself in the mirror and be like, I don't hate myself. I'm thankful for all the things that my body can do. I want to take— I want to make moves to get going in the right direction, make transformation, whatever. But I don't hate myself. I'm not going to hate myself because you're not going to hate yourself into changing who you are. If instead feel neutral about it, you don't have to feel good or bad about it. So I think body neutrality is, is the, the way forward.

That's— I've never even heard that. That's, that's a Sean Casey classic right there. And that's so true. And I relate to that from a productivity standpoint. On a day when I'm not productive enough, I fucking hate myself. I'm shouting in the mirror and I'm like, oh my fucking— you need to be doing more, Rob.

Everyone's counting on you.

You've got to do this. And then like I take a step back and I'm like, well, this isn't making me more productive. If anything, I'm exerting more energy on it. So it's the exact same with your fitness, hating on yourself and shouting at yourself in the mirrors, squishing your fat, everything, going nuts. It's not going to help your progress. So take a step back and take a calmer approach and, you know, understand, all right, this is where I'm at and this is where I'm going, you know, and separate those two. And so what's your take do you think on personal trainers who are out of shape? Personal trainers that need a personal trainer.

Yeah, so I think it really depends who they're looking to work with. Yeah, sometimes, right, this, this is the angle that we need to look at it as well. A personal trainer might be out of shape, but they might have been way more out of shape, and now they've got to a place where they're less, but you haven't seen that journey. But then sometimes some personal trainers are just, are just lazy, and then they're just trying to give their clients advice without actually implementing themselves. So I think it might be hard for the client to relate to that.

Yeah.

But I think we need to, we need to understand that we don't know the journey that that person's been through and how good of a coach they are. But yeah, again, there's a lot of personal trainers that are in incredible shape that are shit coaches. Yeah. But I think as a, as a, as a ballpark, you, you— I, I would feel like a hypocrite if I didn't practice what I preach. So for me personally, I like to— like, I'm not trying to be shredded, but I train like 5, 6 times. I'm in the gym like 2 hours a day with a CrossFit and cardio and stuff. Like, so I train a lot. I'm very active. I live, live a really good lifestyle. Yeah. Because that's what I try and encourage for, for my and I'm really, really happy with, with my shape. So I wouldn't, uh, I would feel like a hypocrite personally.

Yeah.

But I understand that it's different for everyone, and some people have, have got to that stage of their journey, or maybe like whatever, and they're still a good coach. So try not to judge people too much. And as a whole, I try and, I try and focus on myself. But I will, like, if I'm just talking about myself personally instead of talking about someone else, I like to stand in relatively good shape when I'm trying to coach other people to do the same.

Yeah. I'm like, how could I stand on my soapbox and be all holier than thou when I'm just not? Not following it myself. Like, I just wouldn't be— you wouldn't have the confidence to do it, you know? You completely lack it. And so what's a day-to-day life look for you? Because you mentioned training for 2 hours there.

That's more than me.

Yeah, yeah, there's always more stuff to do with CrossFit.

Oh man, I do love it.

A bit of High Rocks recently, actually. We should go do a session. It's, uh, it's like right there. Fucking killer. Yeah, you know, like, absolutely love it. Yeah, like, I always come away with One, you have a great pump, you know, you're lifting weights, you're doing something that's close to bodybuilding, and you just feel good. You have that sweat on.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so yeah, we'll do a little class this weekend.

Sounds good.

But, uh, so what's the day-to-day life look at— look like for you? What time do you wake up at?

So usually get up about, um, 7 or 8. It just depends, depends on the day. I'll walk my dog, um, I'll reply to—

dog's name again.

So we've got Photos, the little one that I walk, and then we've got Oisin, the most human dog names ever. Um, but yeah, I'll walk my dog, that That gets me set up for the day. I need to walk first thing in the morning. I'll try and work while I'm walking. So if I'm replying to people, doing different bits and pieces, and then the maintenance work is just being in the Facebook group, replying to clients, creating content, recording podcasts, stuff like that. But that's at the minute. See, when I was on a growth phase, because I launched ebooks in January, Social Circle in February, and then Gleam, so a day would have looked like getting up at 6 AM, being on a call with app developers in Australia to being on a call with my business team, then my marketing team, planning this, building this. It would have been like, it was go, go, go, and it was a grind. And I'm so glad that I've done it, but at the same time, I came out the other end of it and I was like, I just about survived that. Like, I'm very much, I'm very much in a maintenance phase with everything. I'm enjoying creating content, I'm working a few hours per day, and I'm traveling. Whereas like, my day a few months ago looked completely different. It was calls, it was, right, we need to sort this, we've got this problem, we're doing this. So I think it's super important to go through different, different seasons, different reasons, right? So at the minute, I'm in the season of enjoyment of life. I'm really enjoying life. I'm traveling. I work a few hours per day. I've built what I have so I can do this. But a few months ago, the stuff that people didn't see before was traveling to Marbella and chilling out and doing all these nice things, was just in my house all day. Like, as much as I have all these different online businesses, it's just a work-from-home office job. That's what it is. And you're on calls all day. So it depends on the time of the year and what I've got going on, and it varies massively. I could be working 14 hours a day, I could be working 1. It just, it's, it's, it's always different.

What do you mention about calls? Like, there's some days where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do like a sick YouTube vlog saying I'm like, I'm on fucking calls.

Okay, prop the camera up, look at me just talking into a laptop. I'm like, yeah, damn, like, that was a shitty vlog. But, uh, that's absolutely, that's wild.

And is there any other like projects you got coming up that you're working on on.

So I think—

and what's your travel looking like for the summer?

So travel's looking like at the minute was meant to be Marbella and then Vegas for the UFC, but honestly that, that got knocked in the head.

So, McGregor, come on, man, we're waiting.

Um, but Marbella at the minute, and then I'm taking the family to Italy, and then I think I'm going to Greece after that. And then IFS is in Ibiza. And then in winter I want to go skiing, and I want to fit Bali in somewhere too. So everyone's going to see this and be like, look at him living the life. But I was like, I spent 4 years in my parents' kitchen making videos. Let me fucking travel for a few months here.

And so like, on that note, right, I want to get into relationships a little bit because a few times you mentioned on your story— I could be wrong— did you say you've never had a girlfriend or you've had one?

No, no, I never— I've always been single. Like, so especially—

so when I was a little bit better, I was like, how could a guy like you be single? Come on, man.

When I was in my drug-taking era, I don't think I would have been I don't think I would have been like compatible. Like, I wouldn't have wanted to be in a relationship with myself. Like, because I was like, I was literally just love smashing gear all the time. So, so like, um, there was that. And then when I went into, uh, so a lot of people see me and they see like the lifestyle I'm living and stuff now and like quite laid back, but I, I actually was monk mode, like proper monk mode for like literally 2 years, 3 years. Like, yeah, yeah, I didn't do, I didn't go out, I wasn't really drinking, I wasn't doing anything. Obviously done the 500 Days of Sobriety, but But I was just like, I feel like people have this perception of me where it's like, oh, he's just making videos in his parents' kitchen, he's fun. I was just focused and grinding. I didn't really care about anything else. Yeah. But now that I'm coming out the other side of that, one of my biggest values in life will be having a family. And I'm like, right, it's not the business stuff that's going to make me happy at the end of the day. So you have to get to the stage where you're like, right, you need to put yourself out there a bit. But it's tricky when you have like a, like you have got the success and the following because you don't know what someone's true intentions are.

Yeah, do you get, do you get some, some sneaky ones sliding in?

Say so, but it's just seeing you liking some Australian girls' pics.

Like my ass pics. Yeah, what's up? Does he like that glute workout? Does he? Oh yes, it's a great glute workout.

But so what, what qualities, right? So you want, you know, you want a relationship in the— because you're so young, by the way, like you're so young. Like, uh, the girl that I'm engaged now, I didn't meet I think she was about like 24, I was 26 or something. So like, you know, I didn't even meet her at your stage. So you got so much time, and that's still kind of early as well. Like a lot of people just get in really serious relationships on average, you know, at the end of their 20s. So like you're, you're ahead of the game. But you know, what qualities would you look for in a girl if you were to settle down maybe next year or something?

I'd say the same wavelength, someone's on the same wavelength, they can have like a laugh because I couldn't, couldn't be with, like, even though I've got all these businesses, I couldn't be with someone that's like too serious. So same wavelength, same sense of humor, and someone with a bit of drive themselves. Not someone that just wants to go out drinking and partying and all that stuff. Like, there's a time and place for that. Like, I'm back in the drink now, I enjoy going out for a few pints.

Like, I do like smoking, like a true alcoholic.

Um, but yeah, some, someone that has a bit of drive. They don't need to be a super successful business owner, but someone that has a bit of drive and a bit of something about themselves. I like interestingness. I don't like surface level stuff, like just shit talk. I like proper depth. So yeah, I'm gonna— I'll be back next year with my woman.

Okay, there you go. Yeah, we're gonna run the bottom.

What are your followers? The 4% females?

Just keep liking the pics, slide in.

In terms of, um, so travel for the rest of the year, are you going on a way with any girl, or are you just doing solo travel?

Just with like different groups of people and different like, uh, coaches and stuff like that.

Okay, nice. And so you mentioned 500 days of sobriety there, topic that I completely forgot about that I really want to touch on. I didn't even realize it was 500. That's, that's extreme. So first of all, like, why did you start that and what did you gain from it? Because I think a lot of people, especially Irish people, could do with some time off.

Yeah, so I, I felt, I felt like the only reason that I'll do something is because the positives outweigh the negatives. So for me my alcohol consumption, the negatives started outweighing the positives. I'd done a period of time, like I probably done about 6 or 7 months off it just by accident with lockdown and stuff like that. And then I built my, uh, my following and the fitness account. So when I went back to drink, I used to try— I was chasing the dragon because I wasn't taking drugs anymore. So it was like, I'm trying— I'm like, oh, I'm not drunk, I'm not drunk, because I was chasing the feeling that I used to get from drugs.

Yeah.

So I just kept blacking out every time I went out. It was like blacking out. I used to wake up the next day people on Instagram would be sending me photos of me with like my top inside out the wrong way around, was all like, you were some crack last night. And I was like, I'm actually paying money here to remember about 10 minutes of my life and then be filled with anxiety the next day. So I was like, um, yeah, I went on one, one night in particular. It was actually, it was boxing night, and, uh, this was 2020, must have been the end of 2022, uh, and I just got so fucked up that like I blacked out and I went, went out in Jura and like they wouldn't even let me in anywhere And I have millions of followers and I was walking around the streets like, oh, everyone, everyone was coming up, 'Is that Chunky?' Like, no, no, it just looks like him. It's just so—

yeah, like, um, yeah, that's, that's one thing as well that like fears me up so much is one, the blackouts. Like, how terrifying when you actually say it, put on paper, like waking up the following day not having an out-of-body experience. Yeah, like literally not remember anything. Never mind if you're someone that is a public figure essentially that gets recognized a lot. Like, that's so fearful.

Yeah, so The negatives were outweighing the positives, so I wanted to commit to a year off it. I feel like if I had just said, I'm going to go off the drink for a while, I wouldn't have done it. So I put the post on social media, I was like, I'm going to do the year off it. Productivity went through the roof, businesses went through the roof. I wasn't— I remembered everything, I remembered all the conversations. It was so good. It was so good in that way. But I've got to the stage now where I'm back drinking and I enjoy having a few pints and having the crack. And I was so hyper-aware and used to being sober that when I have a few drinks now, I really feel it. I'm not like, I need more. I'm not chasing the dragon anymore because I've been so used to being sober. So I think that I'm really careful with how I talk about it because a lot of people go off the drink and they should never ever go back to it. A lot of people are alcoholics genetically. But for me personally, and I want to emphasize so importantly that this is for me personally, going off, spending a period of time off the drink really improved my relationship with it. It made me more hyper-aware of how it affects me. And I'm really enjoying, and I'll just say it open and honestly, I'm really enjoying. I've been out 5 or 6 times. I've had a few pints. I'm usually in bed by 12. To be fair, last Saturday we didn't get to bed till like 4 in the morning. That was a bit of a reveal, but I still remember everything. Yeah. But yeah, enjoying being back. But I think that there's a lot of people that just shouldn't drink at all. Yeah, definitely shouldn't drink again. And that's why I'm so careful with how I talk about it online. But I do think my relationship with it is much better. But if I ever find myself blackout drunk again or making them mistakes again, I have promised that like I will go back off it. Okay. Really big fan of Guinness now. I never liked Guinness. I love a few Guinness. The Guinness is shy out here in Marbella. Yeah, it's usually shine everywhere but Ireland. But, um, yeah, no, I've like— it loosens me out. And like, as much as you shouldn't use alcohol as like a form of escapism—

I hate people saying that. I'm like, as if. Like, it doesn't feel good to have a few drinks with your friends.

When you're a business owner, it's very hard to switch off. You're always thinking about work.

Yeah.

When you're out for a few drinks, you're having a few drinks, you're doing it in moderation, it does allow you to switch off. As long as you're not like trapped, like you're, you're pure depressed and you're drinking every night to escape from that. If you're doing it, yeah, once a week or a couple of times month. I don't see it as an issue. And but it's a delicate subject because a lot of people— everyone, again, it just falls back to— and this is my, my main thing— everyone's different. Everyone's different. Everyone is affected differently by different things. So for me, going back to, um, drinking alcohol has— I've had a lot of positive effect from. I've enjoyed myself. Yeah, I enjoy a good night out. Maybe we'll get away, Ripper, here.

Oh man, that's what I'm edging towards. That's what I'm like, come on, man, what's your plans this weekend?

But I'm the same. I think the sweet spot is like maybe— see, I did— and this time last year I was competing, so I did like 4 months off it. Same effects as you, productivity, everything just skyrockets. But then there's some times in summer in Marbella when it's like 30 degrees, you're with all your friends and your family, you're on the beach, and I'm like, I do not regret this, you know. I am, I am like choosing this. Then there's some times in Dublin when it's like freezing cold, I'm in the dark dark, shivering over a pint, and I'm like, this ain't it.

Yeah.

So I think the sweet spot for a lot of people is like maybe twice a month. Yeah, twice a month. And the odd time, maybe do like 3 months off, or maybe do the entire month off.

Or else drink, drink to the experience. So you might do 3 months often, but then you might have a wedding and then a stag where you're drinking multiple times within the space of a week. So, um, I think it's about drinking when it's, it's something that adds to that night or that event.

Yeah. Okay. And so I have 2 more questions to finish things off. And so one of them is, what is the hardest thing you've done in life on this journey from the Holy Lands to where you're sitting right now? What's been the most difficult part?

What's been the most difficult part? I think it is the sacrifice, like that monk mode of like just sacrificing and not doing anything, not going out. Um, a lot of alone time, a lot of time alone. I'm quite an extrovert, I like being surrounded by people, and there was a period of a couple of years where I just wasn't surrounded by people that much. Yeah, but I'd done that I'm doing that for the benefit of my future self, for the businesses and stuff that I've built. So that was really, really difficult to do that. So that was probably the hardest thing that I've done. But there's been multiple things in terms of building and scaling the business and all that stuff. It's all difficult, but I'm passionate about it, so I don't even think about the difficulties. There's been lots of different road bumps and stuff like that, but I just get on with it.

Yeah. And so I remember my kind of version of that was like 2014, '15, '16. Well, I was broke. I couldn't go out, but I just did. I kind of not cut off all my friends, I want to say that because I still have, you know, my oldest friends to this day. But I did just 3 years where I was like, I have to like make this fitness thing work or I'm just going to be absolutely screwed. And then so on a more positive note, what's been like the best part of the journey?

The best part of the journey is that definitely giving back to people, buying my mom the car, paying the mortgage, being able to like— I just love that, it feels so cool. And for me I always looked at people that were super successful and thought that I couldn't do that. I thought that they had something that I didn't. So to be in the position now to have all that and be able to give back to people, that's, that's definitely the coolest thing. And to build things without having to sacrifice my morals or ethics and seeing how much it helps change people's life. It's it like we've done that in person, made up, and hearing the stories firsthand from people on the app, it was like I was literally nearly in tears.

I was like, it's so good.

Um, so I'm so grateful for the business, but I'm more, more, uh, happy with the way in which I Awesome.

Sean, you're a credit to yourself. You're an amazing young man. Tell people where they can find you, as if they haven't already.

Just, just search Sean Casey. I'll come up. TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, SKC Fitness.

There we go, man. I'm looking forward to Marbella riffer. That's a wrap.