#25 Paul Daley: The Reality of Building an 8 Figure Business

And when I got out to Scottsdale, every day felt like I'd run 50 workdays in one day. Ty told me this, he said that billionaires, and I think Iman will be a billionaire, every billionaire that Ty has met has a natural disposition to just to go further and to go longer. Iman says he's kind of like mentally broken.

Yeah.

And I would, in that regard, I agree, because he takes that stress and he looks at it and he's like, nah, I'll keep going.

Yeah.

And I just, I look at it and I'm like, let me slim down a little bit. How do I do that kind of thing?

Paul, we are back now. First of all, I don't like to have a conversation before a podcast.

Really? So I was—

when I came in the door there, I was making some small talk.

Okay.

No, I was reserving my energy.

I actually thought for a second Rob liked me less than the other guys.

Yeah, no.

I was like, man, he's not very talkative.

Bro, I always wait because when you're doing a podcast, the whole goal is to talk. So now put it there. All right, we good?

Good seeing you.

Okay, so we had a great week. This is not the first conversation we had. I was in this exact spot at about 4:00 AM the other night, full of red wine, full of Aperol, full of whiskey, but we were having great chats. So we were just watching back in the footage there, but now it is time for a more sober discussion and we're really gonna be going through your journey through your whole life, the beginning, the start, the middle, the end, all that good stuff and what you do as an entrepreneur. So tell me, First of all, before like getting into the actual business stuff, like what were you like growing up as a kid?

Oh, I was a bullied robotics kid nerd. My high school sport was frisbee, Ultimate Frisbee.

UFC champion, Ultimate Frisbee champion. Not the Dana White UFC.

That was really off the cuff. That's a good little joke.

I'm gonna have some bangers.

Okay, I'm waiting for it. Yeah, very different version of myself than I am now. The one thing I can say is I was always a thinker. And so I think that's the part that helps me now.

Yeah. Okay. And so what were you like in school and college? Did you plan? You like sports? Academically, how were you?

Bro, I was so insecure. I've never said this on a public forum, but like, I am— number one, I have the torso and leg build of a swimmer. I should like— short torso, long legs, long arms. And I'm an amazing swimmer. I grew up in the water and everything.

Have you done an Ironman?

Bro, I haven't yet.

Okay, man, the swimming part is what scares me.

Yeah? Well, we can do it together. The other parts are what scare me. Bro, I didn't even try out for swimming because in middle school I was scared of wearing a Speedo. And like, what if, you know, like just what if kind of thing, you know? And I was scared of not making the baseball team. I played baseball for like 12 years. I was phenomenal at baseball looking back. And so no, I was just a super insecure kid.

Okay, and so how did you turn that around into becoming the person that you are now? Because the person that I see is a boss. The person that I see is chilling in this big-ass villa, you know, dressed to the nines, and you have people listening to every word you're saying. So when did you become the person you are now?

I don't, I just think I'm becoming still, you know? I don't know, man. I just put my head down for like 6 years, 7 years and went through a lot. You want to know what it is? We were talking about like our rock bottoms and everything. And going through that, I realized like when you hit the lowest point, insecurity comes from like pride. And I guess being scared of, you know, if everything crashed down. And then you hit that crash down part. And then I feel like insecurity just goes away at that point. And really, I just don't care. You know, and so that alongside building myself to the point where I saw people actually start to listen to me has given me— I don't want to say confidence, but a lack of insecurity.

Yeah, for sure. And so what was the first entrepreneurial thing you ever did, be it the first product that you sold or the first business that you started?

Sales consulting. Yeah. So I went from like 10 years of sales experience, had a friend in the online space that I saw him crushing it and I was like, dude, if this guy can do it, I know, I know I can do it. Really good friend of mine. Still say that to him all the time. We laugh about it. And my apologies to anyone listening, by the way. Well, I actually, one little side note. So I was watching the footage of us the other night and you sound, I love your voice, bro.

Oh man.

You have a great voice. My voice sounded like a pipsqueak compared to you. So at least I lowered down a little bit in tone, which I'm happy about.

So you know what I actually get like a lot, James will know this, I get like a load of shit about my voice from Irish people.

Really?

Like a lot of Irish people say it's like super posh, like super South Dublin. Firstly, I like it. I like it as well. But a load of people give me shit about my voice, but it's definitely like a loud booming voice.

Oh yeah, when you meet Rob, you can hear in his voice the energy that this man brings to the table.

Absolutely. Appreciate it. But so going back to your first business, okay, so you wanted to be sales consultancy. Why did you start that? Like for example, when you're growing up as a kid, like we want to be astronauts, astronauts, you know, we want to be athletes. What made you say, hey, the first thing I'm going to do is sales consultancy? You saw your friend, you want to do that, but like, did you really have a passion for it?

No, it's just the only thing I knew. Okay. And so I'm big on— I think, I think of like a world if heaven came to Earth, right? And I think there'd be a lot less big corporation. I think it'd be a lot more freelancer, one-to-one peer help, etc. I think there are so many things that people are really, really good at that they should probably help coach people on. Personal trainers are a really good example in that one little niche. Then you can get a nutritionist and such. Then you can get— in the online world, there's operators and there's sales reps and there's leaders, teach management, culture management. I think realistically that not— I'll talk about me in a second, but so many people have a skill set that they could probably leverage to make money for the rest of their lives, but they don't even know it. And so for me, that one thing was sales and it's the only thing I knew. And so that's the only reason I got into it. It's not like I love— I'm still known as like a sales guy.

Yeah. Yeah. I was doing some research for this podcast and like, there's like, you know, you go on the Educate YouTube thing, which is the production quality is insane. And it's like, you know, you're the sales guy.

Yeah. I haven't sold for like 7 years, 8 years now. It's been a while. I've led some sales teams over the last few years, of course. But I— it's just the thing that I knew. You know, and so that's why I started and that's kind of what helped me develop my entire career. But I am way better at teaching sales than I am at sales.

Okay.

I'm way better at other parts of business than I am in sales.

Yeah. Do you know what, like, so when I jump on a sales call, I'm actually really bad at it as well. I'm good at like, I'm good at explaining the offer. I'm good at explaining the value of it, you know, and I can get the person excited. I can get them pumped up and going, but when it comes to the very end, the close, you know, getting, getting the credit card details. I get like a little bit like, because this is always someone like for they want to sign up for a fitness, you know, lifestyle business coaching. It's someone that like really fucks with me and really like loves me in a way and really like I love them as well. And then I'm like, I feel like, oh, I want to give it to them for free. Yeah, you know what I mean? So I always, uh, so I end up having to hire like a sales team, a sales guy who can kind of like do that part for me. So, sometimes I'll like jump on the call as well and then I'll be like, all right, look, thanks so much for that. You know, I'm gonna leave you with my, you know, onboarding team now and then go. But like, it's funny with me, like, it's people, like, they're good at certain parts of it and then like there's some bits that they just can't do. So, when you were doing sales calls, when you were selling, bring me through like the beginning, middle, and the open to close.

The first thing I'll say is that like any skill, number one, you could be phenomenal. And so sales—

I've been told. I've been told I need to work on it. Yeah.

It's not that you're like good at talking or such. Everyone thinks that's it, but you have a certain level of emotional intelligence, obviously, because you're a great host. If you ever meet Rob in person, you're a phenomenal host and you're a great communicator. And the two of those together give you really good sales ability. And so one of the things I've learned is that like any skill in the entire world, some people are naturally dispositioned to be great at it. Some people are always going to suck at it no matter how much effort that they put into it. I'm kind of pessimistic in saying that, which I know— like, I'm not the kind of guy to tell people you can do anything. I think—

That's me.

I think we're created in the image of God, and what that means is that God made you with one skill set that you probably have that you're better at, literally, quite literally, probably than anyone else in the world. I think every human probably excels at one thing more than anyone else ever could, and it's finding that one thing. And then when you're really— and you'll enjoy that one thing too if you're created and made that way. And so if you find the one thing that you excel at, that you can spend hours doing it and having fun while everyone else hates those hours, and you're just so good at it, you can create a really cool life. A lot of people try to get in the world of sales. And I just don't think that that's their one thing, right? But in short, I mean, we can make this sales technical. I feel like for us, that's boring. And I feel like we can talk about so much more fun stuff.

Oh, no, no, I wanted because a lot of people that follow me, like there'll be a lot of trainers and people that want to get into the world of business and They want to know how to make a sale.

Okay, I'll tell you the easiest way, the easiest 3 things that you have to do to sell. Cool. Or 4 things. So first we'll hit frame and then there's like the— I made a YouTube video on this the other day, the 3 sales you need in every sale. So number 1 is you want to frame every call. Most people don't start this or don't do this, but it'd be super short. It'd be like, hey Rob, today, dude, I want to keep it super short and sweet. I just want to find out where you are right now with your fitness goals, where you want to go with everything, what your goal weight is.

He's in the zone. I can find a way to actually help you get there.

Then I'll break everything down for for you. I'll walk you through it A to Z, answer your questions. And if you like what you hear at the end of this, then I'll make you an offer. Is that fair enough? So I've said that like 10,000 times, bro. And so that you frame that and then that gives you the ability to lead the call. A lot of salespeople have trouble leading the call. People are asking questions to them and like taking them out of frame. Framing the call will help quite a bit. And then the 3 things that you really need in every, in every sale. So you need to sell number 1, on making a change. I'm sure you know this as a trainer more than anyone, but people think they can keep doing the same thing they're doing and still get where they want to go. And you have to actually get them to admit out loud that they need to make a change to their ways.

Right.

You do that by asking questions. So the first sale is sell on change. And if you want to interrupt me at any point—

No, you— I'm loving this. Please, please. I can tell you're on fire.

Sell on change. The second thing you have to do is sell on the methodology of the change. And so there are a lot of ways to lose weight. Let's say you were specifically a nutritionist. You could sell specifically on selling a new— the new nutrition is where you have to focus in order to lose weight. If you were a running coach, you could sell the method of using running to lose weight, etc. There's a lot of different ways to, you know, eat less and do more.

Yes, exactly. Because that's essentially what it is. Yeah, we got to package it up differently.

But it's important because the methodology is actually where you get the alignment. Because if you— let's say realistically you don't sell them on the methodology. A lot of people try to sell their program as the methodology. But then the methodology has a price tag. So what you actually do is you sell the methodology for free, right? You get them to say that this is the way they have to do it, and you get them to agree with that because there's no price tag on it. If you say, hey, listen, I really think the way you're going to get to where you want to go is by doing 3 things. You have to eat less, but still do it in a way that, you know, is sustainable. Most people try to not eat for a week and then they go back to their old ways.

Yeah, that's the most common fitness mistake.

Yeah, I know a little bit about that.

Yeah, I see them pipes.

And so you do, you sell them on the methodology and get them to be like, that's exactly what I need to do. And then the third is your solution. So you align your solution to the methodology you sold, which is, hey, do you wanna know how it would help you do exactly that, which you just agreed is like the way that you need to do this? And so you get alignment without price tag. After that, you get alignment and meaning yes, then you put a price tag on it and you'll get a lot less objections. That's like the core easiest way to describe a sale.

Okay, love that. Like that was like, that's a clip right there. Like I'm telling you, I'm crazy interested in all this. So is my audience. So please, please don't think otherwise. And so, okay, you make your sales consultancy company. What's it called?

I don't even think I had a name, bro. I think I used Paul J. Daly. I think that was like the name that I used 'cause that was my Instagram handle.

Okay, nice.

It was, I only did it for 2 or 3 months before I started my agency.

Yeah.

But it was like bare bones, just getting in Facebook messages all day.

Yeah.

I remember my first sale. I'll tell you my first 2 sales ever.

Okay, good.

And you're starting in the world. This is like the best story of like compared to where we are now, this is the opposite.

I got one as well.

I'm excited to hear yours. So my first sale ever was I spent like 2 hours selling this guy on one coaching call for selling him for a coaching call, like, like trying to get him to want to learn sales from me. And he bought it for $50. And so I did an hour-long coaching call with him, but I spent like 2 hours after everything on the sales, sales call itself. So I made $50 for 3 hours, which is like $15 an hour.

McDonald's wage.

Exactly. I was so happy, bro. I was like, that was the world can actually do this kind of thing. The second one ever was that I sold someone and I took— this is why I hate PayPal now. It's like PTSD. It was an amazing call. He was so excited. Like, I thought we were going to do amazing things. I take the payment. It was $500. My first time ever getting like a little more.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I hang up the phone. I remember I just have this like, oh my God. And I refresh the page and he had disputed the $500 within 3 seconds. And PayPal's instant. It's not like Stripe where you have like a lag time. Instantly was gone and red flag and everything like that. I remember calling back and he didn't answer, didn't call another number, the whole thing. And, um, anyway, so my first sale, real sale ever, was just gone in a second.

Oh my God, my first one wasn't even $50.

No.

So it was when, like, I was still working at full-time 9 to 5, but I had a little RobLipsett.com fitness website and I had like these ebooks on it that were— I think they're like still there to this day.

Okay.

And so you could buy, like, it was each one, there was one on training, one on nutrition, and they were each like €30, and you could buy them both for like €50. I'm like, oh, that package deal. I'm like, strong. Yeah, strong upsell. They didn't even buy the €50 one. But so someone got that. It was like the nutrition one. That was always more popular because I think, personally, I think nutrition is a more interesting topic. I think it's more nuanced as well. And there's like emotional aspects to it and psychology. So my audience always liked the nutrition side of things. But I bought that anyways, and I was in work at the time. PayPal again, shout out PayPal. As much as we hate on you guys, it's where everyone starts. And that notification came in on my phone and I was just like, you get that feeling that you're like, whoa, this is the internet money. Yeah. I'm like, there's something here. And I was in work at the time and I was earning €1,800, which is like, it was the minimum wage in Ireland at the time. And so when I was like, okay, I can, I can do this.

Yeah.

And really, that first sale really gives you—

I tell people, the first sale, it doesn't matter if it's for $10, man, it changes your perception of everything because it's the first time you weren't paid by paycheck to make money. And it really does reprogram you, just like you're saying. Same thing happened with me for that $50 one, man. I was like, oh my God, like, this is possible.

Exactly. And I love the word you just used there, reprogram. And I think we spoke about this the other night, and it's about how do you change your perceptions to that 7-figure, 8-figure mindset? As I think that's something that I currently need to do next.

Yeah, I think, um, I told you that even for a while this is something I'm still, I'm still working on it, but some people reprogrammed me a bit.

By the way, you nailed this ratio.

It was me, man. It was Ollie over there. Hey, nice. Um, I think, okay, so my favorite example of this, dude, is actually— and I'll use speed instead of ceiling for a second.

Yeah.

But so I worked with a company in Scottsdale for a couple of months. I'm working with Iman and I'm working with a company in Scottsdale running a big offer. And I remember that when I went, I start— I just— to show you and then to really show you, I'll break down how it all happened. I got a DM from this guy who watched one of my Instagram Reels back like years ago. I put a couple of sales Instagram Reels up and he was like, hey, you want to have a call and see if you can help us? And I knew about him and I wanted to see if there was something I could take from that. To Iman's team. And so I hop on a call with him. Within half an hour, he's calling me back. Do you want to be doing this, this, this? And I talked to Iman. I'm like, I think we could probably benefit from this, bring stuff over, and totally did. But I remember that within another 45 minutes, I was being onboarded on team meetings. I didn't even know what they sold. I had no— I was like, what am I doing here, bro? I remember it was moving so fast. And then within another 20 minutes, I had tickets to Scottsdale. They booked me tickets to Scottsdale, and I was going out for a week. And I was like, what the— and when I got out to Scottsdale, every day felt like I had run 50 workdays in one day. It was cocaine times 30 energy. I've never seen speed like that. And it actually became my new barometer for how fast I work. So, if I don't feel like even half as productive as I was there, then I just— everyone thinks they work fast until they see what actual speed looks like. Speed is a variable. And like the analogy I use is imagine we took We went back in the 1940s.

Yeah.

And took a Lamborghini. Oh, the '40s, right? The top speed at the time was like 40 miles per hour. And now you're doing 200-something miles per hour. They would have thought that the 40-mile-per-hour car was fast. Now they see that much faster exists. Now it's slow, right? It's the same thing that happens with work. You see what's possible for speed. What you do is now slow and you want to get faster, but you don't even know faster exists until you see it. Yeah. It's the same thing with like sizing and thinking, right? When you're in a bubble of like everyone's doing these numbers or making these offers and making these packages, then that's what exists and that's the barometer you hold yourself to. But when you start hanging around guys that are doing $5 million a month, $10 million a month, then spending $10,000 a night at their places, etc., that's when it's very different and you reprogram to realize money is like way— it's a different game than I realized. And so I forget who says it, might be Grant Cardone or like Tai or someone, but realistically you're just solving bigger problems with the skill sets that you have and it's no harder than solving the small problems. So the things you do, it's not like you have to do more, be smarter to make more money. It's just that you start to play a slightly different game.

Okay. So you almost have to kind of see it to believe it, really.

I personally think that's the only way because I've never seen anyone. So you know that your network is your network, etc.?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

I think.

True. It is true.

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if these are going to fuck up the audio.

I know. I haven't even, I haven't been listening to them. Yeah. No, I think, I think it's super like. Like it eliminates all that.

Yeah.

So, it's ambiance. We're up in the mountains. The workers are doing the quarry and they're, you know, making mines. Life is happening.

It's beautiful up here. So, you think you have to see it to believe it. Network net worth, I think, is BS up until you're making like actual money, right? And then realistically, the group of guys, like the fact that I'm here with you, man, like you're a big, big, big dude, you know, physically, but also like bad ass. And so, I don't think if I was, You are an anomaly of where you— I've seen you, you'll talk to anybody, bro. You are a really good guy. But most guys are not that way and you know that, right? Yes. There's a barrier of entry that you have to meet. And so realistically, I don't think most guys, if you're brand new to the space and trying to get in, will ever get around in proximity with guys unless they meet that barrier of entry or unless they work for them. So the two things you need to do if you really want to change your perception of money or speed or anything is either work with faster people. That's why I wanted to work with Iman. I knew I kind of hit my cap of what I thought was real and what I thought I could to do. So I wanted to work with Iman to see what was more. And I learned, my perception has changed for the rest of my life. But the other thing you can do too is you can build yourself to where you meet that barrier of entry to meet higher qualified people. And then when you see what other people are doing, that's when you start to realize, bro, I'm playing stupid, right?

It opens your mind. And now you mentioned, I call him Iman because I'm Irish. Iman.

It's fine. You would say you can pronounce it however you want.

Yeah. It's a compliment for me to call him Iman if he's watching this. It's like my, how I speak, my authentic way pronouncing it. But so how did you guys meet? You know, I think he's an amazing individual, but I'd love to kind of hear more about it from a personal thing. Like, how did you guys first come in contact?

The first thing I'll say, I told you this off camera, but I'll say it on camera in case Iman does watch this, is if he sees this, he'll call me a fraud because he knows that in Italy, I could not drink an Aperol Spritz to save my life. They were terrible.

Cheers to that.

Cheers to that. These are delicious.

I'm not, I'm like nearly sank mine. The Irish in me is like downing it. We'll have to get a refill.

Yeah, but Iman was looking for— it's super simple. There's nothing fancy to the story. He was looking for a sales manager. It was on a story. And then I interviewed and then Iman was the second interview. I still remember he was a much smaller brand at the time. He was in his apartment in Dubai before he had the villa. And he texts me. He's like, hey, bro, this is after the first interview with Iman. So 3 interviews in now. And he's like, do you have a second to chat? And so we hop on Zoom and he's He was kind of cute. He was like, man, I want to give you the opportunity and stuff like that.

Nice.

Yeah. And so within a week, I think I got like a massive care package of Gadgi clothing. I mean, bro, like big box comes to the door and there's hoodies, there's sweatpants, there's windbreakers, the whole— it probably felt like awfully when you—

That's what I was about to say. That's what I was literally about to say.

And it's cool, bro. It's like, oh my God. And his stuff, credit where credit is due. I don't think he does the clothing at all anymore. It was really, really nice.

Yeah.

I was like, wow.

The sunglasses and everything. They're dope. I haven't done the sunglasses.

I have all the Gadgi blue light blockers and such. And he decked us out kind of thing. And then of course, hanging out with him in person as many times as we did, I went to learn what I didn't know and I learned a lot, a lot of personal stuff from him. The one thing I joke about with people is that I also learned how to dress from Iman.

Yeah.

And he would take that as an insult because I don't dress nearly to the standard that he has. But there's, yeah, I learned a lot of small stuff like attire, but I also learned a lot of just big stuff about how to hold yourself, how to think and such.

Yeah, that's what I enjoy his content the most as well. Just like, for example, random one, like he walks well. Like, you know, I like the way he carries himself, you know? Like, 'cause there's a lot of stuff that is, that I, yeah, I can apply to my own life business-wise, but I just think he's a cool dude, you know? And just like watching stuff. And so where did you guys like first physically meet, Dubai or something?

Miami. So we had a sales manager getting married in Guanajuato, Mexico. And so we met in Miami, had a really, really good night in Miami. And one of the nights in Miami, do you know the Versace Mansion?

Yes. Yeah. I stayed like right beside there last time.

I was one of the few people to jump in the pool at the Versace Mansion. So I remember we're having dinner. It's a team dinner. And I will try to find the B-roll or like put this in the— Yeah, yeah, of course. But we're at the Versace Mansion having dinner and someone says, like, bro, you think anyone jumps in there? And I was like, go do it. And they were like, no. And I was like, I would do it. And they were like, okay, then do it. And I looked at Iman and I was like, do you want me to do it after or before Bill? Because like, it'd be weird that, you know, if like, you know, we have to pay after.

Yeah, you'd just be like.

He's like, bro.

You'd be like, I'm at your mercy. Yeah.

He's like, after. And so pay the bill and I go in and I just like backflop into the pool. I'm soaking wet. Everyone, it's like two floors in there.

Yeah.

Everyone's clapping for me, like applauding.

It could have gone either way.

Yeah, no, I will never forget how I got kicked out. So I walk out of the pool and the maître d' is standing there in a nice suit. I'm drenched, right? And I look at him, he looks at me and he's like, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. That's kind of nice the way he's like, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. I totally get it. We walked out. I said, how many people do this? He's like, like one every 2 or 3 years.

Okay. Why 2 or 3 years? Nice. Nice.

Yeah.

Good going.

Yeah. I'm among a few. Like, you know, if there were plaques Yes, you'd be up on the wall. Yeah, Iman and I joked about it like 6 months ago or so because he got invited back or something was happening there. He got invited and I texted him. I was like, I'm surprised you're even allowed back after that incident.

We got to hit up the Versace mansion now for dinner or something. And so does— last one on Iman. Does he really like work as hard as people kind of see he does or how he portrays?

Absolutely. Iman, if you use the word portray, which I'll just touch on. Credit where credit is due. Everyone, most people on social media glorify what they do, right?

Yes.

So they'll 10x what they're doing on camera too. And normally it's 10% of that. Iman's the opposite, if and bigger ratio. So whatever you see on camera is 1% of what he actually does. Most of the stuff that he's doing that actually moves the line or is fun or whatever, it's off camera. And so he is an incredibly hard worker. He, I mean, or sometimes I would hear from him at like 2 in the morning and he was still going for more hours kind of thing. You know, never stops. He is also the one guy I've probably met in my life who just can outwork me. I can work profuse hours for days and weeks on end, but he can just, he's a diesel engine, bro.

He can just go. The person I know most like that is probably Christian Guzman, who owns Zero Athlete. I've just like, well, he does openly have sleeping problems. Like he does not sleep. Like it's crazy. And it's just one of those people that just keep going. I don't know. I openly say to him, I'm like, I don't envy that.

I don't either. Ty told me this. He said that billionaires, and I think Iman will be a billionaire, and I would assume Christian will be too with the brand value. Billionaires have a natural, we're talking about disposition for sales. Every billionaire that Ty has met has a natural disposition to, there's a word for it that I can't recall right now, but just to go further and to go longer. And you see it sometimes and you're like, bro, I can't do that. And I don't want to do that.

Yeah, I compare to an athlete who like, so you know, like for example Tiger Woods, people which is a golfer, like you wouldn't even think that's like that hardcore. It's like dude has like arthritis from just practicing so much, like 1,300 or 1,000 or something shots a day. It's the same as like an entrepreneur at that level. And it's like people will look at athletes at the very top of their game, they'll see the Swedish girlfriend and they'll see the lifestyle. And they don't look at the practice. And it's like literally like grinding their bones to dust. Like, and it's like, and if you lived a week of their life, you actually would not want to do it.

We talked about this the other night with Elon. You know, people say, exactly, I want— I wish I was Elon, blah, blah, blah. And Elon talked about it on a quote and said, most people want to be me, but if they lived in my brain for 20 seconds, they'd probably shoot it.

Yeah.

And, um, yeah, dude, like, there's— and then you see the stresses that those people have too. Like, I'm sure Christian, like, the amount that they carry me. Yeah, I don't want that.

Yeah, I'm pretty chill. Yeah, I've got that happy medium.

Yeah, you see this, like, you almost— when you grow, it's— sometimes you don't make the decision, you just think you have to. But then you always, always have these introspective moments where you're like, why am I doing all this?

Yeah.

And to, to be at that level, for Christian, for Iman, for anyone like that, uh, they have those moments and then they just— Iman says he's kind of like mentally broken.

Yeah.

And I would— in that regard, I agree, because he takes that stress and he looks at he's like, no, keep going.

Yeah.

And I just, I look at it, I'm like, let me slim down a little bit, how do I do that kind of thing?

And so do you think that guys like Iman or even Christian, because now we had a little go on social media today, do you think they would be as successful as they are without social media or without their platforms?

100.

Oh, you do? Yeah. Okay, all right, all right, I disagree, but go on.

Okay, I think so. So there's two arguments here, three arguments. Number one is timing, because they both started early. And so you can get into timing, but the main thing that I think realistically is that before social and before the internet, what was a lot of money was less to an extent, right?

Yes.

And so realistically—

The new $10K per month is like minimum wage. It's like social media wage for the daycares.

I just think they would have found ways ways. I genuinely, like, I wouldn't be surprised, like, if social wasn't a thing, newspapers were still fucking there. I'm sure that Iman and Christian would've found ways to sell athlete or whatever.

That's so true.

On fucking newspaper or mailers or what? Like, I think about real estate agents, dude. There are real estate agents making millions of dollars a year using mailers, like actual just direct mail, you know?

Like physical.

Physical mail, bro. The companies that sell for the most in the States, not the most, but companies that sell for deca millions, hundreds of millions of dollars, are door-knocking companies. You know, that like social is one means to grow a company. And I think realistically, smart guys like the two of the gents that we're talking about would have found a way in any way. The leverage you get from socials, inarguable. But at the same time, that's just what they saw. I think they would have found other ways to do it.

That's made me change my mind. If you were to put them and Guy billionaires, Elon, whatever, back into like the '80s, '90s, if they would just use whatever is the best media platforms then.

It would've been great.

Yeah, yeah. But, but fucking, it's helpful now.

Social's helpful.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so, okay, we need to go into a little bit more about your time at Educate, something I'm really interested in. So you become CEO. Is this like you at a big desk in like a corporate office in a skyscraper, you know, wearing like a suit? Or like, what is your like day-to-day? Day look like as a CEO?

My favorite part about that role was that no day felt or looked the same. So number one, no, I, a couple things I'll say on this. And I had, I have an agreement with Iman, where his business is his business, and mine is mine. And so I keep a lot private. But I don't think any of this is anything that would be, would be wrong here. So number one, I was the COO for a long time, I should never have been the CEO. Because Iman always was the CEO. A CEO is thinking long down, down, downrange, very, very visionary role, which was always Iman in that business. I definitely consulted a lot with him there and had conversations with him, but he should have always been the CEO. I should have always been continuing the COO role because the COO role was really what I did was it was embodying like everything outside of marketing and content, everything in the day-to-day of the But so, day in the life, office, remote. So it was all remote, but a lot of travel, and we can get into that. I remember I got an office, and Iman and I actually talked like 2 months ago, and he told me like the team meeting prior to, they were talking about my office and how jealous they are of the office. I have an awesome little historic office where I live. And Iman, at first he was like, bro, you don't need an office. It's overkill kind of thing. And then I sent him a video of it. He's like, "Ah, that's pretty fun." He's like, "All allowed." Now, apparently, they still talk about it in like a joking, envious way. But no, it was sometimes team meetings all day long. Sometimes it was looking at Looms all day long. Sometimes it was just voice memos back and forth. It was very relaxed. There was no day that was ever like— sometimes it was traveling out and doing lunches or dinners with Iman and someone else or such. There was nothing that was ever the same.

Yeah, you know what? Like sometimes I'm trying to like film like a day in the life and like I'm literally at my desk all day like on Zooms and just like texting and stuff. And I'm just like, it gets the end of the day and I'm like, bro, this sucks. I like to leave.

Bro, that's what, so our new YouTube videos, that's what we're like now, half the videos are Zoom recordings because, and I'm actually moving it over to Riverside so the quality is even better, like podcast stuff. But I— that's, that's all I do, you know? And so like, this will have 4 or 5 Marbella videos. Yeah, but this isn't like a normal day in the life. I know, a couple weeks of every quarter or so I'll go around, I'll travel, I'll try to meet people like yourself and such. But, um, you know, my, my life is in— at— I, I was telling someone who's here earlier, I saw a video of someone at their desk and I felt so envious at that second. I was like, bro, I want to be back at my desk in my boring office drinking my black coffee at 8 AM. Lies! No way! I 100%, dude. I love that. Oh my God, I love that, dude. That's— that to me— I mean, don't get me wrong, this is beautiful, and you, dude, you're so much fun to hang out with, and you're great company, and it's like, it's fun. But I am— I love just zeroing in on a problem or something and just going, going at it. And, uh, our best videos to me have been the videos which is Zoom calls and team calls and such. And I just love that stuff. Yeah.

And so you're going in on the content a little bit more now.

Yeah. But even on the content, you're doing a speed run. Mateo over here, the videographer you've met, talented guy.

Yeah.

He doesn't even know what we do. He doesn't know what package or offers we have.

Okay. Okay. Break it down like an idiot. What do you do? So like, if I was to say what I do, like super easy, like, you know, I help dudes get in killer shape. That's like my quick one-liner. And then And so, you know, I was a guest on a podcast earlier today. So, we broke down like my sources of income. So, for example, we have the Gameplan app that's low ticket, you know, €39 per month. We got, you know, a few thousand people on that. I have a team in Cardiff and New Zealand who pump out the programs. They're personalized. They update depending on what stats you put into the app. Everyone's happy. Everyone gets killer results. That thing runs itself. Then I do the high ticket. So, it's kind of like the upsell version of Gameplan where I work with like 20 guys. Usually, and that's me one-on-one. And like, and it's funny because like, I'm like, you're getting the same program with each, but the other one is just extreme accountability. They want me, they want you on their ass. Exactly. And then so we've that, then we've, you know, YouTube sponsorships, Ghost, Alphalete, then we got side quests like Fuel Cakes, Protein Pancakes. But that's the, that's the bones of what I do. So I'm like, super easy to break down. People sign up online, get Got it. So what's the super easy version of what you do?

I make guys like you more money.

Okay.

That's the easiest way to say it, right? I work with songs. Let's talk, baby! We talked about it a little bit the other day.

Oh, I know, I know.

We had a fun conversation, dude, because there's two ways— oh, it's Grant Cardone, I think, would disagree with me here— but there's two ways to make more money. There's either working with higher leverage people and being more expensive, doing less, but working with higher leverage people. Or, and what Grant says is you get rich by selling to the masses. There's, you know, having the biz op, very cheap, like real world with Andrew Tate kind of stuff, like anyone can get it and creating massive awareness. I just want to do that right now. You know, maybe one day, but I like problems and puzzles. Yeah. Finagling. I just told you I like working on my computer. And that is why I love working with higher level guys.

So So let's say you, uh, there's like this jacked Irish guy making about like 50K a month, you know, take-home. What would you do to, to get him like to 3x his income?

There's a lot. The first thing I would say, and there's no right or wrong, but I think that the— I think your high ticket— I'm sorry, this guy's high ticket would definitely need to, to be with because yes, there's no way that number one, you should be doing anything one-on-one for less than $25,000. Like even me, bro, my one-on-one mentorship, which is one call a month, is $25,000. And people would pay that all day long for you if you just knew how to position that and they knew what they got out of that. Yeah. Because the other thing is like you're way, you're way more than a fitness guy at this point, man.

Yeah.

A lot of people would follow you for business advice.

So yeah, that's going to be the next pivot. It's gotten to the stage where— so I've been doing this for like 10 years.

Yeah.

And my audience has grown with me.

Yeah.

And so I started at 22 and now, you know, when I did like the version of what James did the other day, you know, like a meetup seminar event, I looked at the crowd, everyone's jacked. They don't need it. They don't need it. They don't need a game plan, you know, like they're telling me what to do. But these guys, what they do need is they want to know how to live a lifestyle of freedom. Exactly. And they want to improve improve every other aspect of her life. Because that's the thing with fitness folk, you know, it starts with improving your fitness, then it falls, you're like, I want everything, you know? It's that like macho mindset, you know? And so that's the next thing that I need to do.

So how would you like— So Iman started out with agencies, but then eventually he outgrew that. He also got bored of it. I don't know if you're still having— you probably do because you're such a good guy. You probably do enjoy talking about fitness and health. I can tell it's a passion of yours. But you probably want to start talking about other stuff.

Yeah. I feel like I can kind of get a little bit more excited about it or something a little bit more like, oh man.

You can only talk about the same thing for so long.

Exactly.

There's only— we talked about this. There's only so many ways to remake the same stuff because kind of what we said earlier, eat less, do more like that. And so how do you package that into 10 years worth of content and still be versus just changing what you talk about?

Yeah.

Because that you're changing parts of your life, especially if you're documenting your story like we talked about at the— we spoke at— we did a Q&A for a little mastermind and we talked about documentation. That's your thing.

Yeah.

And so if you're documenting, that means you probably want to start documenting the new part of the journey that you're on. Yeah. You know, so anyway, I would say a couple of things. Number one is I think the app is an interesting move. I would want to look at that because I think, I think most people don't know why they get— I would call apps a software. Yes. And the only reason you would get into software is for enterprise value. It's not a cash flow model. And then at enterprise value, if something is tied to your brand brand really doesn't give you enterprise value.

And so I think enterprise value, meaning exitable cash. Okay.

Selling the company. And if it's tied to your brand, there are ways to do it. Like example given, Christian Guzman could eventually sell Alphalete because Alphalete is now creating its own brand of its own, etc. What you would see, like I think we were talking about the other day, you were talking about power of brand and you're talking about The Rock and tequila.

Yes. McGregor and his whiskey.

The Rock already sold his tequila.

Okay. Yeah. McGregor sold his whiskey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that's my point. So what you do with, with product— and Iman, I'm sure I, I can say this because I've never talked to Iman about it, but I'm sure this is the plan— you correlate Big Day to Iman, you correlate the whiskey to McGregor and such. Yeah. And because of that, George Clooney did this with Casamigos. You, you know, people—

I'm like, oh, interesting.

Yeah, people correlate that, and then you get that, you can get the value. But the product is correlated. When it's a software from you or something, coaching from you, it's really hard to get out of that.

I know. Yeah. And so actually, a guy that he like, you know, coaches trainers how to scale, I had a chat with him. And so I've actually gone through like kind of two rounds of like my high-ticket fitness program. And like the first time I did it, I marketed it as like, okay, it's really one-on-one with me. Like, you know, this And my God, people signed up and if I was not on their beckoning call, they get pissed off. And that, which was the nightmare.

I think, see, there's two, one thing you keep saying about yourself. Okay, so let me phrase, to one thing earlier than what you just said. So everyone at your level, I sound like shit right now, bro.

Oh man, that means you've been working hard. I like it. I'm like, if a man doesn't have a hoarse voice, I'm like, what the fuck you been doing all day?

Everyone at your level should have a cash flow business enterprise value business. Like, that's, that's the— yeah, right. If not multiple of each. And so anyway, you have the app, which is supposed to be enterprise value, because it's not a great cash flow machine, but you're using it as a cash flow machine, which is why I think it's broken. Your high ticket's fucked up. Yeah, there's a lot of work. And so we would talk about stuff like that, and we would, like, it would start high level and then get very nitty-gritty. But that's how I work with guys like you.

Okay. Looking forward to it.

For what you just said though, I also— bro, I'm— so you are huge on mentality. I am huge on words and communication, but especially, you know, Tai Lopez taught me this, and then the Bible teaches it to the best. But you just called yourself a trainer, and I think that's— I think that's stupid.

Yeah, sometimes it's me trying to be a little bit humble.

I hear that. Yeah, but like, if so, I, um, I realized one of the biggest things you can do in, in the world of business, one of the big, the biggest fuck-ups most people do is they, they bring on people and they make them a CMO or a COO or a president of blah blah blah when the company's like 4 or 5 people, right?

Yeah, it's like it's one guy and I'm like, I'm the CEO.

Yeah, but what I learned, bro, I love that.

Like, yeah, me too.

Yeah, um, what I learned is, and And Dan Martell has stuff on this. And then there's a book called— it's— I forget, it might be Work Rules or it might be Multipliers. But I don't want to quote books because the other day you talked about, you know, those book snobs that quote books.

Yeah, but there's only you.

But there's a concept essentially that the title you put on people will not only change what they do for work. Like, bro, you can take an employee, give them a different title, and you'll see them actually transition what they do because people will try to match what their title is. And so titles and job jobs or titles in business are incredibly important. Title you put on yourself, incredibly important. So if you call yourself a trainer, even to be humble, you're putting yourself in the caliber of someone who's not really making money. You know, you are a business person.

Yeah.

And we're like, I know, I know fitness offers doing $500,000 a month with no brand, $600,000 a month, no brand. And so the fact that you have an amazing brand, brand is like potential energy. So essentially, like when you create brand and we can get into squeezing brand and all this, all this different stuff.

Yeah.

But when you create brand, it's like climbing. It's like taking a ski lift and you got up at the ski lift, right? And there's like snowboards and there's skis. By the way, I want to have a cigar in a second.

Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. There's snowboards and there's skis and like all these tubes that you can go down the hill with. So you're up here and they're like, yo, what do you want? And you're like, no, I'll just walk down, bro. That's the route that you chose. And so anyway, like calling yourself a trainer is just not being efficient to the potential.

That you have. You know what, so I read again, uh, book snob versus book normie. Read Atomic Habits, uh, Corey, you know, it's like fucking most read book in the world. And he said, they said exactly that at James Clear. He was like, uh, it's about what you label yourself as. Because so if you label yourself as a smoker, you're never going to quit. Yeah, because you're, that's me, that's my personality. And the people, if it's like, if you label yourself as a fit person. Like, you identify as that. I think like that's the person you're going to be.

I've never read that book.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's solid. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure you've heard it. Now we are— I, I haven't even looked at this thing once. We are— we're yet to get into things. Cigar, toilet break.

You want me to light for you, or do you want to?

What would you advise?

It's your choice.

Okay, I'll light. All right, yeah, I'll teach you. Okay.

So in short, this is, um, you see there's a blue flame, right? And everyone thinks you have to put that blue flame up to the cigar. You actually want— all you want to do— I'm going to start for you a little bit, but you can be kind of far away and you're going to see that you're still lighting from all the way over here. And all I want you to do is slowly get the cigar to the point where it gets black, give it a second, try again, and then play with it. There's no— there's no rules. There is a right and wrong, but there's no expectation on your first ones for how you light.

So you do— you do a little bit of this beforehand. Yeah, there you go. Okay, just play with it for a sec.

Just my favorite part of a cigar, dude, is lighting the cigar and enjoying the process of lighting. I've never had what we're about to smoke, so if they're terrible, then we can trash them and get more. I have HOMMs in the, in the back.

I think, I think, I think we're going.

I feel guilty, man. Rob Lipsett, fitness guy, health.

Oh no, no. So my whole motto that I kind of like built my brand on. Oh wait, my—

Yeah, you want me to— I'll finish your point.

Yeah, yeah, fuck it, you do it. My whole motto that I built the brand on was fitness should improve your life, not take away from it. So like some of my most viewed videos and how I kind of like built my cult, my audience is showing the trips to Ibiza, you know, showing the calorie challenges, doing videos on how to drink, go out, like growing up in Ireland. And now like I'm way more— less wild now, but like, I don't believe, maybe not, I don't believe in like these like chicken, broccoli, and rice guys that just, they spend their whole 20s just in the gym and they have no stories to tell.

I would have 100% thought that was you.

Yeah, yeah, no, no, not at all. Your physique, bro.

I'm mind blown.

Thank you, there's still, and there's always guys that are just like 10 times the size as you and the condition, you know, there's always a genetic freak out there.

Random question. So I used to watch Max Tuning. I told you this the other day, right? And he's the only, I think the only guy on YouTube that I ever actually spent like more than a couple weeks watching stuff of. Does he, have you ever partied with him?

Oh, massively. Probably one of the most. Okay.

Does he go hard?

Oh yeah. So I've seen, we call him Lizard Max. Cause I've one time and I beat that, it was me and Mike Thurston. And like we just went on a crazy night out, and it was like, we were, we were all so fucked up. We had this big villa, and he was just, just full lizard mode, going crazy, but like in, in a really good way. Like, just like, he just said, kept saying, I'm the Lizard King. It's like a quote from The Simpsons. We didn't make any sense, but he's a wild guy. And yeah, he's even like, when we're not going absolutely nuts, like, he's just good to like go out for dinner with. I believe that Max is one of the best guys you'll ever and like he comes across like real jokey on his social media and like, you know, wacky, but he's like so smart and so switched on and a businessman. Like, he— you name it, have a really good conversation. Oh shit, you should go on Don't Be Sour, his podcast, you know. It's like, uh, yeah, yeah, and it's like, it's really big and it's really high production quality. And yeah, you know, he loves, he loves business and finances and everything, you know. So yeah, you guys would have shop.

Cool.

All right, where am I with this?

So I'm going to tell you it again because we'll say it on the podcast.

Okay.

When you learn how to smoke a cigar— I thought you were recording the whole time.

Oh, we are.

You are?

Yeah, yeah, now it's going. Yeah, yeah.

So, um, my first, my first cigar ever is the coolest. I think I, I think literally in the world I might have the coolest first cigar story. So we had just spent Iman and I and the crew were recording that sales program. We had just spent the entire week in Lake Como. We were going from Lake Como to London, and we're flying in a private jet above the Swiss Alps.

Ah, ah, ah!

Imagine being in a jet looking down, seeing the mountain peaks, and then the cigars come out, the Trinidads, the Cohibas. I actually forget what my mom And Alex is trying to teach me how to pull it. So Iman lights it for me and teaches. Iman has this thing where, you know, he taught me how to essentially start a timer when I'm starting to learn how to smoke cigars. And we did this a little bit the other day, set a timer for 60 seconds so that you don't pull too often, get lightheaded and nauseous, etc.

Yeah.

Last place you want to get sick is on a plane.

Oh, yeah. It's like in a container.

Exactly. And so I remember actually smoking the cigar and I can't get any smoke in my mouth. And Alex is like, dude, I don't know if Alex would be upset that I said this.

No.

He's like, pretend you're sucking on a tit. That's the best. He's like, just like that kind of thing.

What? How are you sucking on tits? I'm doing mine, don't have sound effects.

So I told him, I told the gentleman smiling over there off camera the other day, the same thing. Like, pretend you're sucking on tits. And he was like, I don't do that. And I was like, uh, and he was like, bro, And I was like, he was like, why do you think I would do that? And I was like, I'm sorry, dude, are you gay? I genuinely asked him, I'm sorry, dude, are you gay? Like, I didn't know. And he was like, no. And he was like, bro, I don't suck dick. And I was like, no, suck on a dick.

You know what it sounded like there, you were saying it.

Yeah, but then I realized, like, why do you think I've sucked dick before? It turned into this whole little thing.

Those words are just too close together for things things that are like completely opposite, you know? Like, we need to reinvent the vocabulary. So, right, sucking on ti— tatas, sucking on some milkers, right? That's, that's how we do this. Okay, so, right, and do you, you grab with your teeth?

I, I do. There's no right or wrong on that one. See, that's better. Yeah, it's almost like a muscle that you have to kind of develop in a way. You want to ash as little as possible.

Okay, right. I'm always like, you know, because it's a nice house, I'm like, I don't want to—

no, bro. I, the amount of times I actually have pants that I've ruined because I'm too bad at not ashing and I'll just have ash fall over me, all, all over me.

But so, right, we're smoking cigars now. There's something that you said the other day and like I really picked up on it, caught me by surprise. You said the B word, bankrupt. Oh, what the hell? So we, one minute we're earning, you know, $200K a month And now we're bankrupt. Tell the people like what's going on.

So this is like the go-down story.

Yeah, yeah, which is the best part.

So this is before all the real money. When I was, so you asked about when I was like as a kid, when I was 20, so I would still call that kid, but like not a kid anymore. When I was 20, bro, I feel like I'm smoking a cigar and now I can speak better.

I don't know if you can hear me. Yeah, you're probably, it clears you up. You're like that, you know, John Daly. The fucking golf player that smokes.

I'm right now realizing I might have a problem. So I worked at a car dealership. That was my first main role. And this is for the most part before internet money was really a thing. And I was 20, 22, 21 making $250,000 a year, $20,000 a month. That's killer money when you're that young. And car dealership? I was the finance manager and then the finance director. And so I was running the backend in department, which is the most lucrative department outside of servicing a car in the dealership. So they— side note, dealerships don't make much money on the front end of the car. So when you buy a car, there's not much money on the front end, front end being the sales price and such. But there's sometimes trade value. There will be. But it's the interest rate that you get from the dealership. It's the different programs. It's like, oh, it's— that's— and we might lose $400 on the front end and make $8,000 on the back end.

Yes.

But anyway, so that's the department I ran. I was making good money. And even funny stories to how I got into that, that the guy who got me into that, quite literally, like your gold Rolex, gold chain, like sales guy, GSM. I'm not exaggerating, snorting coke off Bibles. Like he was as car salesman as it comes.

That's like a meme.

Seriously, legit. Anyway, so I was doing that and then I got an offer to work in the government and I got a clearance and everything and it took 2 years and finally popped up. Opped, and I got my offer, got a contract, and I was going to take 1 month off. So I took 2 weeks, and I also— this is context I've never said on camera, but I had a 5-year relationship at that point, and I took 2 weeks to go to Hawaii and 2 weeks to chill afterward, and then I was going to start on contract. So we go to Hawaii, the 2 weeks come, and then the contract— this is right when Trump gets hired— hired, elected.

Hired. You were right the first time.

He starts draining the in the swamp, right?

Yeah.

And he genuinely does. All the contracts got furloughed and there was no new payroll for a little bit. And so my one month of vacation, if you will, and then there was this whole thing with contract adjudication and clearances where I was scared to get another job because if I got another job, that would have the background check would then have to go into that. And that could be as long as you, who knows kind of thing.

Yes.

And so it turned into 14 months of no work. And in that 14 months, I had Context before this is when I was making money as a kid, it corrupted my character. I was prideful. So we talked about the fact that I was insecure and then you'd give an insecure kid money and that becomes the thing that gives them security. I've actually never even come to, to with that before, but that's like, that's a new realization. It was this insecurity with money and I was just a, like a prideful person because I made money. Right.

What were you buying?

Uh, I had, I had 2 cars, one S7, like $180 grand in cars or something.

Yeah.

Nicest apartment I could get.

What type of cars?

Come on. S7. I love Audi and I was working at Audi dealership. So I had an Audi S7 and Audi Q7. I was the guy who— you really had $20 grand, you can't do this. But I was buying every single dinner for every person we went out with.

Yeah.

And you know me, it's still this. I don't like splitting checks.

By the way, Paul did that the other night for everyone. But now it's different.

But I was buying like, and bro, I was 20 and my overhead to live was like $8K a month or $9K a month, which is, it's dumb. And there's a lot more to this, but I found my pride in money. Because that's the only, before insecurity, add money to insecurity, that becomes the thing that you have security in. And then I started to find God.

This, so this was what I said. This is the thing I wanted to speak about. And this is it. So this is flowing perfectly.

So when you find God, there's scripture in the Bible that talks about this. I'm not smart enough or verse enough to quote it, but in short, he will burn away other idols that you have. So the first commandment is, you shall have no other gods beside me. When he says other gods, you can break that down like Zeus and Poseidon and such, but what he's really saying is other idols. And everyone's god is money. And so there's a line, there's a really important line that people need to understand, you cannot serve two masters. I'm pretty sure the Aramaic in that is actually translated in other ways too, but you cannot serve two masters. You cannot serve God and money. And so my thing that gave me security was not God, it was money. And he burned it, bro. Burned that idolization out of me. The way God teaches you, he's not gentle.

He's not the most perfect analogy ever. He's just fucking burning that money.

He burned it. And so I had eviction notices. I had— yeah, so I remember, dude, at this point the girl that I was seeing was super Catholic. And when she— when I started to actually want to read the Bible and find God, she— I think we need a refill over here. Can someone take— oh yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, James. Yeah, so he starts to burn these out of me, and the girl that I was with, she hates that I'm actually trying to find God.

It's not me. Yep. No, no, if you want to top me up, that'd be great.

Thank you, bro.

Okay, she hates I'm trying to find God.

I find this new girl who I now have a family with, amazing, amazing family. But so anyway, it's this process. And I remember I'm dating this new girl now. This is later. And I was scared. We would come up to my apartment and I was scared of like, I would be like walking in front of her looking over to see if there was yellow paper on the wall for the eviction notice.

Fuck me.

My S7 was repoed. I remember before it got repoed, I'm a mile away from my apartment. It says zero on the gas. I'm out of gas. And so I stopped at a gas station. I pull out my Amex and my Amex was also like when I got my first Amex, I was so proud. I was like, I'm so cool now. Like when I pull out a bill and you pull someone pulls an Amex. Yeah, that says something, you know?

Yeah.

And my Amex gets declined at the gas station, bro. Amexes don't decline. My Amex gets declined. I have to call my dad. I'm like, Dad, can you come and give me $5 of gas? So, oh, kind of thing. Car gets repoed like days later. Eviction notices. I keep selling furniture to keep up with rent and still get behind.

But at one point I remember, dude, Was there any like drugs and alcohol as well? Like maybe, maybe.

So the, the, what I was about to say is because I was getting closer to God, it's the happiest I've ever been in my entire life. So the thing is, the beauty behind this was that most people going through that will turn to drugs and booze because that's where they find security and nurse the pain.

Yeah.

I remember vividly that at one point I had this beautiful apartment and the only thing I had left in there was an old TV 'cause it was, it was actually so not valuable that I couldn't sell it. So there's an old TV. And then my bed, I'd now at this point thrown in the living room, but I'd sold the bed frame. The bed frame was gone.

No, you're fucking joking.

Bed frame was sold. All of the furniture was sold. So like there was nothing I had. Even my desk I had sold. And at this point I'm trying to like use Fiverr to make money in different ways. And so, but like there's so many little nuances, but there's a bed in there and I'm sitting on my bed and I'm praying. And I thought it was like 5 minutes and I look at the clock and I almost missed missed a birthday party 'cause it was an hour and a half and I was just praying for an hour and a half and I thought it was 5 minutes. And it's the kind of prayer where I was like, you know, when you pray now it's Father, Lord, et cetera. But I was pleading genuinely from the heart like, Dad, I was like, Dad, please. And there were so many times where God just provided in the most beautiful ways and he really showed me like, have security in me and I'll take care of you. And so anyway, through that entire experience, the— on this world, the worst experience you can secularly have, meaning like to this world's standards, the worst experience you can have was the happiest I've ever been in my entire life. There are plenty of times— I actually had one the other morning over there. I was praying, and I envy how happy I was. Yeah. Or fulfilled or at peace I was.

That's beautiful.

Yeah. And I'm broke. I was sitting right there looking at the villa. I was like, dude, I would actually go back sometimes to those times. Like, if I could go back, I don't think I took it in as much as I would light.

Yeah.

Um, and anyway, so long story short, that's where I found God, and that's, that's, that's where, you know, the, the ability for me to have security not in money but in who I am— not in who I am but who, um, my heart belongs to, being God. That's where my security comes from now.

3 things, right? So first off, man, perfect timing. So the first one is Americans and credit cards. Y'all are insane. Joe and I in Ireland— James will know this. In Ireland, we, we don't do credit cards. Like, yeah, you can obviously get one, but it's just not a society norm. You just have your, your debit card. Like, you have what's on your, your card and you spend that and it's either zero and that's, that's it. Like, you guys, crazy debt. Like, what is the debt for American people? It's like trillions.

I told you.

Oh, imagine what a noob. What a noob. Oh, look, I'm still, I'm still going on the wide outfit. It comes out easy. But yeah, American Americans on credit card debt, like, it's crazy. I listen to some Dave Ramsey.

Oh, I love— well, so Dave's a great business guy. You know, side note, you know how much he does a year?

Oh, just go on.

Take a guess.

Millions. Yeah, like $5 million.

$300 million.

Oh, fucking hell.

At least in revenue. So I'm guessing profit-wise, I mean, he's big, but he's still— I'm guessing it's deca millions in profit.

Yeah, I love his advice. I really like it.

It's inarguable advice.

Yeah. Some people think it can be argued with, but I'm like, he kind of has like, from an Irish person looking in, like he kind of has an Irish point of view. Like obviously he's very into God, but like he's very against credit and loans and everything. I've never been in debt or ever taken out like a big loan in my life or anything. It's, I mean, it just freaks me out.

It freaks me out. I don't have a credit card anymore.

Yeah, yeah, no, they freak me out. I actually don't really understand them. So that was the first thing I want to say. And then the second is, first of all, what is like a 101 basic for dummies on learning how to pray? And then number 3 is I want to know how exactly you, you got out of being bankrupt, zero, to, to back in the green.

So yeah, so for you and your audience, I'm guessing a lot of Irish, correct?

Irish, English, and I actually, you know what, so it's actually mainly American. Okay, uh, but, but so it's like, um, 30% American, 20% Ireland, 20% UK, or, and then like rest of the world. But when you actually divide up the populations, that Ireland is so— it's insanely dead, like insanely dense. So like, you know, very concentrated. So my Irish is like still my main following, kind of. But no, most viewers, most viewers are American.

I'll speak to, um, to like 3 types of people who would want to talk to God. The person who doesn't know who God is, uh, the Catholic, and then the Christian, right? Uh, if you're Muslim, uh, this is your podcast, so I'll be a little more, um, general.

No, no, please crack on.

Yeah, I, I tell Muslims I'm coming for their hearts on the behalf of Christ because I think there's no religion in the entire world that is stupider than Islam.

Yeah, me too. It freaks me out.

I generally think I'll get killed for how much I'm going to speak against Islam in the next months. I think that's the one thing that'll do me in one day.

All right.

You can speak about Christianity as much as you want, you'll never get killed. Speak about Islam, you're putting yourself in danger. But so for those three, so if you don't know who God is, I think when you start to pray, and Muslims, I will say this too, when you try to actually pray about God, who are you? People will start to naturally see Christ and Jesus because he is God. But to Catholics, 6. This is the— I came from a Catholic background. You can— you come from a Catholic background. I don't know if you still consider yourself Catholic, but I think, number 1, the Catholicism is a terrible, terrible strain of Christianity. I genuinely think it's, it's, it's really evil in ways, because I think that— I told you this line the other day, uh, at night, and I— it was in passing. I don't know if you remember it, but Catholicism is a religion. Religion is man's attempt to reach God. Christianity being the Bible and what the Bible teaches is God's attempt to reach man. And I love that because realistically, the Bible doesn't teach confirmation, for example, giving confirmation is completely Catholic. The Bible teaches that you shouldn't call anyone Father beside God, but you call priests Father in the Catholic Church. The Bible preaches that the only person who can absolve sins is God, Christ. That was a big thing when Christ came, but you can go to a priest and they'll absolve your sins. There's so many things, but the main thing that I don't like is that most Catholics, when they pray, the way there's different prayers. There's the Lord's Prayer, you know, the Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. There's the, the Supper, the Hail Mary, Hail Mary, full of grace. The people pray to Mother Teresa.

Yeah.

Um, there's also some other stuff like Mary being, uh, the Queen of Heaven. And there's all this different stuff in the Catholic worldview that I think is broken. But the way you pray is, number one, you pray knowing that God already knows where you're ask for. And so most people when they pray, they— if they're not rehearsing the same thing over and over, which is not prayer, that's just you saying nothing. Yeah. God doesn't care about the fact that you can rehearse the same thing every single day for the rest of your life.

Okay, that's a nice easy to digest take.

He doesn't care at all.

Yeah.

He wants to know what— he wants to talk to you from like your heart, you know? And so Christ Jesus, his disciples asked, how do we pray? And he said, first put your heart in the right place. And so when Jesus wants to pray, which is who we should learn prayer from. He would do it throughout the day, but he would always start in the morning and go to a desolate space, desolate place is how the Bible words it, so no one could see. Prayer is supposed to be private. There is group prayer and such, that's different, but solitude with your maker, solitude with God in private. So I do it over there because that's as private as it comes. I like to do it outside. And the first thing that you do is you say, God, I'm like, thank you. Because everyone starts asking, asking, asking. Imagine if like you had a kid, bro, and they came to you, never said thank you, never said I love you, just said, hey, can I have money? Can I have this?

Yeah.

And so first thing you do is like from the bottom of your heart, you, you meditate for a few minutes to sit still. And I promise, through meditation, when you hear the wind around you and you feel the sun on your skin and you, and you're there, you'll feel God's beauty. God is the light of the world. He breathes air into your lungs. You're As you read the Bible, you find out that every good thing that you see is from God. And you become very thankful and you think and you think, and He knows you're gonna ask because, and He wants you to ask. And He wants you to ask things that He wants to give you. He wants you to be more aligned. So when you ask, allow me to walk in your footsteps better, allow me to be a better disciple of yours. Allow me to get through this world and not fall into sin and such. He wants to help you with that. And so be thankful and then ask. And in the Bible, it quite literally says, he says, don't be too long-winded because he already knows before you say it. The length of your prayer is not how good your prayer is. It's the heart that you have.

The intention behind it.

So praying, like, you'll never see me pray on camera because I would be doing that for the—

for the virtue signaling. Exactly.

It's a private thing and you do it in the right space and you do it with the right heart. And that's how you pray.

That's very nice. And now, so this is like lining up perfectly. How did you get yourself— you found God. How did you get yourself out of this, the bankruptcy? Like, how did you start making money again? How did you start affording food and stop having to sell your bed frame?

So, got some nice bed frames.

Yeah, yeah, bed frame gains.

I have a beautiful bed frame.

Yeah, I say it's fucking dope now.

So I remember I was Because through all that, I could have got a job at how long it had been. And at first I kept telling myself I don't want my contract to expire, to have to be rechecked, etc. And then I remember someone and people kept saying, family kept saying, get a waiting job or something in the meantime. It's not going to, you know, just get something. But going from where I was to getting a waiting job, I fought that for like months. And then I remember at one point Bro, I laugh looking back at this. At one point, and this is going to sound like a fake story, I promise it's not. Yeah, yeah. I just, I was sitting on my bed and we had moved the bed to the bedroom again, but it's on the ground.

All right, we're on the off. Yeah.

Change of scenery.

The bed is in the bedroom. All right.

And I'm sitting on the bed and I'm like, you know what? I think I got to get a waiting job. I think I'll, and I think I'll apply. And the, I'm not exaggerating. I'm quitting. It sounds like I will. And everyone will always think this is an exaggeration, but it's not. As soon as I said that and I meant it, generally it was like, okay, I'm done fighting this. I'll get a job at Green Turtle or something. I got a call within 2 seconds from the contract saying, you're hired or you're on a Monday, essentially 4 days from now. And I was good. And so I started making money. Ended up hating that job, hating working in the government. Got into software sales and got And then from software sales to agency stuff or sales consulting at first agency and then so on. But it was just in the second I let go of my pride, which is, bro, there are so many people, I'm sure even personal trainers where people are like, hey, I'll pay you this much to help me. They're like, ah, it's not worth my time. That one change in belief was why everything was worth my time at that point. I was willing to wait. And as soon as God saw that and knew that I meant that from my heart, He was like, I'm the guy, dude. While everyone else is still sleeping in the villa, I come down, I clean. Every morning I'm cleaning.

I'm a clean freak. I love it. It's my favorite part of the day.

Yeah. And I could hire a keeper and stuff, and I do at home, of course.

But I like coming home, wake up in the morning, just do a little tidy up. No deep clean, right?

A lot of people would say it's beneath you.

No, no.

I was like, no, brother. The owner at the dealership I used to work at, I remember I watched him pick trash off the front lawn. On every time he came, you know. Uh, that— and so anyway, nothing was beneath me because of that. I was willing to take opportunities a lot of people would have thought was beneath them. A lot of those opportunities were a waste of time, but some of them were really, really, really good for me. Because of that, I started doing bigger and bigger things. And then, um, yeah, the rest leads up to now.

So what advice would you give to yourself right now when you're at rock bottom? What would you— if you go back and— oh, bro, he's having a nightmare of the, the cigar.

It's my first cigar ever.

Yeah, it's his first cigar. I'm actually the professional here. Crack an olive.

That's bad.

Love it. So what advice would you give to yourself or anyone who has just hit rock bottom?

Find God. Find God. Lean on God. God will take care of you. God will, um, there's a line in the Bible that says, bro, I'm choking on ash, give me one second.

Oh man, wash it down with Aperol, the good life.

There's a line in the Bible that says He says, look around at the flowers, the trees, the birds in the sky, and see how well they're dressed. Will God not take care of you more? Does he not love you more?

And when you—

this is my favorite part about business ownership too. When you start relying on God to take care of you, he will number one reprogram. You don't need like fancy watches and blah, blah, blah, but he'll take care of you better than you could ever take care of yourself. And it's funny, dude, because you think you want to do a better job than he does. And you make yourself an idol. And if you think about the fact of like, bro, just think about the fact that before the world was made, God designed the world knowing our free will, where we would intersect. I could have never planned that. You could have never planned that. And so when you kind of give your yoke to Christ, and you literally, Jesus, take the wheel, he'll take care of you better than you ever could. And fighting that is what I did for too long. And so I would say fight that less, and I would accept got so much further, so much. If I still take that advice, because it's so human to come back and try to take your own wheel, uh, every time I— we talked about this— every time I take the wheel again, I get lost in life. And so, and then I remember and everything clears up almost laughably fast. And so quite literally, to sound like an Instagram reel, let Jesus take the wheel. That's the advice.

That I feel calm even just listening to that. Now, today is the first day of a new month. And it's actually like pretty much the second half of the year, Q3, Q4, as you business folks say. What's the plan? What's the plan, friends?

I was hoping you would say tree.

Yeah, tree. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I know I'd say tree. I don't want to say it. I'm like, I want to keep saying tree. Someone corrects me. They're like, oh, it's pronounced this way. I'm like, no, Iman and tree. Awesome.

I'll start saying it for you.

Yeah, yeah.

I'll say tree from here on out.

It sounds better.

Literally, for the rest of the time that I ever remember, I will say tree in honor of Rob.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to be watching. So what's the plan? What's the plan for round 2 of the year? Second half?

I have no idea, bro. Yeah, I'm just going to keep working whatever God puts in my path. I had a weird feeling and I, bro, I've loved meeting you. We've hung out a few times.

Oh, I've hung out with you the most in the week. Like, honestly, which is like, Usually, like, um, how do I say, I don't like hanging out with you.

Light a little more. You're going out, aren't you? Oh, are you still lit?

No, I'm sorry, I need to tip it. There you go. Oh yeah, here we go.

Cool. Hey, cool cigar management, bro. Sometimes they go fast.

I, I hang out with people, like, honestly, kind of rarely. Like, I'm kind of brief with a lot of people unless, you know, like, I'm a great host and everything, But, you know, I, I, uh, I don't even see like my friends that often, you know. Like, I spend most of my time with like Linda, but I'm like, uh, man, we've spent some good quality time.

Thank you, seriously. It's been— and I— good vibes. I think, I think God wanted us to meet because for like a month and a half I've felt this need to go to Spain. There was no reason to go to Spain, even to speak at James's thing. Love you, James. But like, there was no real reason. Yeah, but I just— something like in me saying I like, I'm supposed to be in Spain. So if I have a feeling of I'm supposed to be in Kazakhstan, I don't know, anywhere, I'll just, I'll follow that. And so I don't, I don't really want to say I have a plan. I just know that I'm going to work as hard as I can and follow whatever that, that spirit tells me to do and see where that goes.

Yeah. I think if you do that, you're going to be all right.

Great.

Well, put it right here. Fucking smash that. Man, this is the most beautiful podcast I've ever done. I genuinely, I didn't even look at this once.

That's a win.

There we go.

Boom. Over and out.