How to calm the chaos, with Lisa Woodruff

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Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good morning.

This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast Podcast. Today's episode is going to be a longer one. It's part of my interview series where I talk with fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome, and they share tips that will hopefully help the rest of us have better days as well. So today I am excited to welcome Lisa Woodruff to the show. Lisa is the owner of Organize 365, A company that teaches people how to make their lives better. She is the creator of the famous Sunday Basket method of life organization, which we will talk about. And she also has all sorts of great other projects going on in her life. So Lisa, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for having me, Laura.

I'm excited that you're here. Maybe you could tell our listeners a little bit about you and how you wound up in this line of work.

Well, part of it was reading your books. They really helped me conceptualize time differently. I've always been a person that has wanted to squeeze every second out of every day, very creative. And when I turned 40, I decided to start my own company that someday would hopefully employ people. So I've been doing this 13 years, podcasting for 10, and I've really dove about as deep as you can get into as to how do we manage our households, how do we look at that Both from a business lens and as a homeowner or somebody who lives in a household, but also from an academic lens. And how can we create operational systems that make it easier for everyone instead of everyone having to reinvent the wheel and create their own systems inside of households?

Yeah.

And to that end, you actually went back to school to research organization from sort of like a psychological, you know, organization management perspective. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that. What, what led to that?

Yeah, so in 2021, I hired someone who had a PhD, and we did academic-level research in order to figure out how much housework are we doing, or what is housework. And I didn't know much about academia. And as we were doing our study, we stumbled upon the fact that there is no definition of housework anywhere, not in academia or anywhere. And after we did our study, we found some significant results. And I realized that if I wanted to keep researching this, I wanted to be the researcher who did it. So at the age of 51, I went back to school and I'm getting my PhD. I'm at the end of my second year and getting ready to start my dissertation. And I'm so glad I did because there's so much amazing, awesome research and literature out there already, but we have not truly defined a lot of our household management roles or operational definitions. And so the studies are not really comparable. And The studies talk a lot about the problem, but we aren't doing a lot of applying, where we're applying a solution and then seeing if that solution is significant. And that's what I really want to do.

Well, that's really exciting. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. It's an area that just people have not done a whole lot of research into. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of sort of feminist writings back in the day of housework being something that people spent time doing. But I doubt it has been approached from a very systematic perspective in that. And I always love studying time use. And so just even seeing how people spend their time in their homes, it's just this area that everyone does. And yet it wasn't deemed worthy of study. I mean, probably because it was mostly women doing it. I mean, I guess that would be one of the reasons.

Yeah. And to your point, there are so many studies. And instead of looking at how we Utilize households when we move from our childhood home to our own home, like from 18 to 80 years old. Almost all of the studies strip away people who are single parents, strip away people who are not married, and they narrow all of their studies to married couples with children. Because you're right, it's all rooted in feminist literature coming out of the late '70s and early '80s. And so we have a lot of theories about why women do more in married couples, Do you realize that only 40% of the United States is married and less than that even have children? So there's 60% of the adult population that really has not been studied at all.

Yeah, no, fascinating. And I know you're going to come up with some great stuff on that, but let's talk a little bit about how Lisa organizes her days. So tell us a little bit about your morning routine.

Oh, it's so simple. And I like that it's so simple. And I talk about that all the time because I think often we can think that our morning routines have to be really elaborate. It's very simple. I, I take a shower, I either curl my hair or I don't curl my hair. That's a 20-minute decision right there. I wear the same makeup every day, 7 days a week. I'm one of those always has makeup on. I grab my protein bar and coffee and I'm out the door.

Awesome. And then what do you do once you get to work?

So this is what I realized. I have a morning, afternoon, and evening routine at home, and I have a start of the day, midday, and end of day routine at work. And those 6 routines really create a scaffolding for me. So when I get to work, I like to say that I'm going to jump right into work, but I never do. I always make a coffee. I walk around and I talk with the other team members that are here. I check Instagram too many times. I check my email, I get everything situated. And it's usually about 30 minutes before I actually hop into my first meeting or whatever I'm going to work on for the day.

Yeah. So tell me a little bit about Organize 365, the business, um, because you said, you know, one of your goals starting it, you wanted to employ people and obviously you have a team now. What exactly does the business do and what does that team look like?

Yeah, so I was a school teacher and a former stay-at-home mom, so I do not have any business training whatsoever. So when everybody said like, oh, you could have products, I was like, okay, you can create courses, okay, you can have a podcast, I'm always like, yes. I said yes and to everything. So we do a lot of things here at Organize 365. We have trademarks, patents, copyrights, but basically we're an adult school. So if you want to learn the skill of organizing as an educator, I've created wraparound services. So you mentioned the Sunday Basket, which we'll talk about. Every single product that we have has a physical component, like you're getting your school supplies or your office supplies. It has an online teaching component where I have courses and lessons that you— that go along with the physical product. And then we have a community aspect. So there are coworking times for all the different products so you can get online every week and literally do that activity with someone live.

And many of those activities are about organizing the household, organizing paper, things like that.

Yep. So we have weekly for the Sunday Basket, which is planning your week. We have weekly for the Work Box, which is planning your work. We have weekly for our Productive Home Solution, which is organizing your home. And then we don't have weekly for the paper. We usually do those in weekend retreats, or we have certified organizers. So we'll walk you through Taking your file cabinet and turning it into binders.

Awesome. Well, we're going to take a quick ad break, and then I'm going to be back with Lisa talking a little bit more about how you might organize yourself with some of her tips.

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Well, we are back. For those just joining us, this is Before Breakfast, but this is a longer version of the show. Once a week or so, I am interviewing interesting people about how They take their lives from great to awesome and the tips they have to help us as well. So one of Lisa's great products over at Organized 365 is called the Sunday Basket. And obviously you can get an actual basket, but it's also a method of organizing your life. So tell us what the Sunday Basket is and why people find this useful.

So as I mentioned in our last part of the episode, you know, one of the things that I've realized inside of households is that there are no operational systems. Like you move into a household. You literally have no furniture, you have nothing, like you have to build everything from scratch. And that includes your operational systems. And so the Sunday Basket is a kindergarten simple, easy way to take all of the decisions that come at you during the week, save them for Sunday, and make all of your decisions at one time and plan out your week. Many productive people already have a similar situation or process that they do that they have created on their own. The difference to the Sunday Basket is that you literally could just buy it and it comes to you in the mail. And I walk you through how to do this in a very simple And at its basic point, it's just taking your mail, your decisions, going through your text messages, your email on Sunday, making all your decisions and planning your week. However, the longer you use the system, the more you realize that you can organize all the things we do as household managers. Like if you do have kids, their school things can be in there. We have slash pockets for any ongoing household projects that you have going on in there, anything for yourself personally. Because often our projects at home can't be done in one week. Like if you're going to do remodeling, you're going to have to save money for that for years. And then it's going to take months to do it. Where do you put all of that stuff while you're doing it or while you're waiting? And that's the problem that the Sunday basket solves.

So it's a physical spot where you corral all the things that you need to deal with. So, um, you know, as an example, I spend time signing children's permission slips. Presumably those would go in the basket. And then I sign them. But you said corralling like your text messages. What does that even look— I mean, because we have a basket, my text messages are on my phone. I assume most people's are there. How does the basket interact with the text messages on your phone?

Yeah, so this is, um, you know, and I am going to be doing my dissertation on the Sunday basket. I believe that it improves your working memory and reduces task switching and opens up your capacity during the week and reduces your cognitive load. And it does that by not having to remember everything in your head. So part of the Sunday basket process is you literally go through your text messages over the last week and make sure you replied to everything. You go through your email or you get to the point where you're used to going through your email and realize, oh, this is something I could do on Sunday. You literally print it out. And then most of my Sunday basket is notes to myself. Like if we were on video, you would see tons of notes around me. I've written 6 to myself this morning of things I need to remember to do, but don't have to be done immediately. It's kind of like a to-do list, but they're all on individual pieces of paper. That way you can write notes anywhere, and you can also toss them when you're done with them.

Yeah, so you're actually— if you think at some point during the week, you know, I should reach out to Bob to see, you know, about the neighborhood association thing for X, like, you write that on a piece of paper, you stick the paper in the Sunday basket, and then on Sunday when you pull that out, you Call Bob. Exactly how that works.

Yes. And that's what we all do, except for we write it down on a piece of paper, or we text ourselves a message. But we don't trust that we're actually going to do that. So then our brain is like, call Bob, call Bob, finally, like, forget it, I'll just stop everything I'm doing right now and call Bob so I don't forget to call Bob. And so once you create a better system for having thoughts, or getting requests at any time and delaying those decisions to Sunday and knowing you'll actually do it, That's where the increased mental capacity comes during the week.

Excellent. Yeah, I talk about this some with, um, one of my favorite tips for people is to batch the little things. Um, and I tend to create what I call a Friday punch list. Um, for me, Friday is when I process a lot of these things. It's just a time that works for me, but I can see that Sunday would work for other folks. Um, and I create a list of all the little things that are Non-urgent, but I need to get to. And the idea, which I think is what you're getting at as well with the Sunday basket, is then I don't have to devote mental space to calling Bob the rest of the week because Bob is on the list for Friday. And I have a time when I know I will attack everything on the list that I have delegated, the little things I'm batching for Friday. So is that the same mental process there?

Yes, definitely. And you're a very productive person and you're so far down on your productivity journey. How you got to the point where you knew to do that and then had a cadence for that, the Sunday Basket is the kindergarten version. Like, how do you get from having all these thoughts and being so overwhelmed and so far behind you don't know what to do to living an ultra-productive, organized life like Laura? How do you even learn that? So it also teaches that skill. You can do the Sunday Basket any day of the week. We don't choose Friday because we do all that for our work stuff on Fridays. We do the exact same thing for the Sunday basket on Friday with a Friday Work Box.

So Sunday, the Sunday basket, I mean, at least in the way you're teaching it to people, it's more for household management, right? So that's not where you're processing the work stuff necessarily. So for people who are maintaining that strict separation between work stuff and personal stuff, the idea is you do Sunday basket for personal. But then you also have a Friday idea for your work stuff, right?

Yes. Again, this is kind of based on an idea out of your book, um, 168 Hours: You Have More Time Than You Think. When you said that if you start at 8:00 AM Monday until 8:00 PM Thursday is half of your week, and then 8:00 PM Thursday until 8:00 AM Monday, I was like, mind blown. Like, are you kidding me? Like, that's really half? And I was like, you're right, it is half. And so while I still work on Friday, Friday is definitely my flex day where my housework and my work come together. But Monday morning until Thursday night, like I am strictly work, work, even in the evenings. Like I don't do housework Monday through Thursday evenings because I know that if I really focus on my work Monday through Thursday and Fridays kind of flex, then I tend to focus more on my family and my house Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And so I actually have a better work-life balance when I actually divide things out this way. Laura, I've taken it so far that we send out our weekly newsletter at 7 o'clock on Thursdays because that's when I want people to start transitioning into thinking about your household management role because it is a full-time role. Like, you've got a work role, a household management role. I, of course, also have a full-time student role. So I have so many hats that I'm wearing that I'm very, very strict with these times. And these boxes allow me to have all the thoughts I have. So Friday, before I leave work, I touch everything and make sure that I've got it. So that I can fully transition over into my household management role, run my household management role on Sunday, make sure I got all that done, fully transition back over into work.

Yeah, I mean, it definitely seems you'd get organized and, and, you know, know what's coming in and not feel like things are slipping through the cracks. I wonder when people first hear this, if they're like, this sounds like, you know, I could spend my entire Sunday dealing with the stuff that's in the Sunday basket. I mean, your promise is that it does eventually save you time, correct?

So, I mean, kind of. So the Sunday basket is going to take you 90 minutes on Sunday, but you also spend that time during the week. I'm just changing when you do it, and it actually is faster than doing it during the week because you don't have the task switching. But what I've realized is, you know, every 4 to 6 weeks I'll spend 3 hours on the Sunday basket. I know you guys have all just tuned out. Don't tune out. Here's the thing. We have a lot of CFO management that we do in our households that can't be done Monday through Friday in 5-minute stretches of time. And even when you're processing the regular weekly stuff on Sunday, you're going to need another 90 minutes to actually call the IRS and do whatever that is. Or our insurance guy retired. I had to get a new insurance guy. Like, when do you do all that? Where do you schedule all that? It just takes a little bit longer time. So doing those CFO tasks take 90 minutes about every 4 to 6 weeks in addition.

Yeah, well, that's one of the reasons I do a lot of my organization on Friday is because then I can make those calls on Friday because, you know, presumably the prospective insurance people are at their desk on Friday, whereas they may not be on Sunday, um, which would, would make sense. But you have to assign a time for things that, um, come out of something like the Sunday basket then.

Yeah. And I mean, I work full-time, so I don't— I can't do it on Friday. So I do it on Sunday. And then I do absolutely everything I can do on Sunday. And then the few things that you can't do on Sunday, I then schedule on my calendar to do, you know, first thing on a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, or in a lunch hour or something like that.

Awesome. So Lisa, I mean, you're obviously a very organized person. What is your biggest time management challenge right now?

The PhD.

The PhD. Well, that little thing.

So I schedule 25 hours a week for my PhD because, I mean, that clock is ticking and those assignments are due. I'm better at some things than other things. You know, going back to school in your 50s, it was a little rusty the first couple of terms. Last term, I took an extra class, which was great because I have less classes to do, but I really— it was too much. And I was really out of balance and it was the family that suffered during that term. So I have it all blocked out. I actually work Monday through Saturday. I work a 6-hour day on Saturday and 2 nights during the week I don't do household-related things that I work on the PhD. But being scheduled and knowing, knowing it was going to take 25 hours a week and blocking out that time, half day, half day Monday, all day Thursday, 6 hours Saturday, I've been able to do it and still travel and all the things they said I wouldn't be able to do while I got a PhD. I'm still doing all those things. But you have to be like so organized. And when it's time to do the PhD, like, I can't do some random organizing project instead. I have to like start reading, start writing, don't mess around.

Absolutely carving out the time for it for sure. We're gonna take one more quick ad break and then I will be back with more from Lisa Woodruff.

Ready to feel energized and in control again? At Orderly Meds, we have helped thousands just like you take charge of their health with a GLP-1. If you've tried dieting, exercising, and relying on willpower and nothing seems to stick, then it might be time to talk to a licensed provider about your options. That's what OrderlyMeds is for. This fall, choose healthier habits for yourself with a visit to OrderlyMeds.com. You don't need to visit with a physician in person to become eligible. OrderlyMeds has a simple virtual process. Connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether A GLP-1 treatment may be appropriate for you wherever you are. Getting started from the comfort of home online. Change your habits and consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit OrderlyMeds.com to learn more. That's OrderlyMeds.com.

OrderlyMeds.com.

Gain confidence and choose better habits this fall. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

Hey listeners, did you know 3 out of 4 US homes have toxic chemicals in their tap water? Even clear water can contain contaminants linked to serious health concerns, and standard fridge and pitcher filters may not remove them. Meet AquaTru, the countertop purifier certified to remove 84 contaminants including chlorine, lead, Forever chemicals and microplastics. Its 4-stage reverse osmosis system delivers pure, healthy water with no plumbing or installation. Join thousands making the switch. Go to aquatru.com, A-Q-U-A-T-R-U dot com, and use promo code BREAKFAST for 20% off your purifier.

Well, we are back. I am interviewing Lisa Woodruff, who is the owner of Organize 365, a company that will teach you how to organize your life. Um, she studies household systems of how people organize, um, all the work that goes into maintaining a household. Um, so Lisa, I wonder if you could share just a quick tip or two, um, something that you use in your life that has made you more efficient or helped you save time.

Yeah, it's very simple. And you're going to say, oh, it can't make that big of a difference. So I'm— you're going to resist doing it. But I say just try it for a week and see what happens. So my first one is to literally write down everything you think or you want to do on individual index cards. So just grab a pack of index cards or, you know, a small notepad. Don't use sticky notes, that doesn't work as well. But literally, I have to get eggs, I want to get my hair cut, I want to start a 501. It doesn't matter how big or how small it is. Every single thing goes on an individual card. And the reason why is, number one, you'll just record a lot more. If you have to record it on a list, you might be, which list does it go on? Which order am I going to do it? Just the individual cards. If it can wait till Sunday, it goes in the Sunday basket. You process it on Sunday. And I found this writing one thing down on one card very freeing because I just write everything down. And then also you may find they're done. You can just toss them and then you can also group like items together and then they become a project. So, stop trying to use your brain to remember things and just allow it to process things. That would be my first one.

I love it. Got one more for us?

And then the second one is very Laura Vanderkam-esque, which is like record everything on your calendar. So, the thing that you might be missing on your calendar, which people in my audience usually say once they start doing it, they can't believe it, is your drive time. Like how much time you spend driving. And so I have multiple calendars. I have a forward-facing corporate calendar. I have a corporate calendar where I schedule out all the work that I'm going to do that is not meeting work so that people can still schedule meetings with me. And then I have a personal calendar. I have more than that, but those are the only ones we'll talk about now. So every single day, all day long, I am recording how I use my time. Like I have a perpetual time diary that goes back like 5 years in Google Calendar. Because I want to know how much time I'm spending on everything. And with the PhD, I've been really, really purposeful in making sure I spend time with my husband, time with my daughter and my grandson who live with us, so that I'm still making sure that I hit those family components. They think they're not getting enough time. I could tell you exactly how much time they're getting. They're getting a ridiculous amount of time. So everybody's getting time and I know where my time is going. So write it down. If you're not good at scheduling in advance, sometimes it's helpful to schedule after you've done things so you can see where your time went. And then you can start making modifications to how you're spending your time after you see where it's going.

I love it.

Well, I'm a big fan of time diaries. Uh, longtime listeners know that I've been tracking my time for about 9 and a half years now. Um, so it's, it's good to see where it all goes. And again, yes, I can show how much time I've been spending with everyone and they may have their own impressions of it. Um, but we can't, uh, claim zero because that is not true. Of course, we can't claim other things that might be over the top because I do not spend my entire life emptying the dishwasher, much as I sometimes think I do. My time logs will show otherwise, even if that is the story I am telling myself. So, Lisa, I wonder if you can share something you've done recently to take a day from great to awesome. I mean, maybe this is something you've done with your family, with your, with your grandson or something like that.

Yeah, you know, as we were talking about tracking our time and making sure that our family gets enough of our time, I would say that now that I'm in my 50s and When I embarked on this PhD, my family was not like, yay, our mom is going to go do all this. And I was like, yeah, that's great. I'm doing it anyway. And I'm doing more of that. I'm doing it anyway. Like, I now do jigsaw puzzling, even with a PhD. I'm doing jigsaw puzzling from like 7:00 to 9:00 PM after I take my long bath. And I have nights where I don't do the PhD at all. And also, I don't put my grandson to bed and I don't empty the dishwasher or do the dishes. Like, I literally am putting myself on my schedule. And my kids are grown, so they're older. But I think that we all should be able to, you know, I scroll Instagram for half an hour, and I don't care. And I put it on my calendar. It's okay. Like, we are worthy of being put on the calendar just for something we want to do. That doesn't have to have a financial or a productivity value to it.

Absolutely. Though I love the idea of actually putting 30 minutes of Instagram on the calendar, because Then it's chosen. It has a start time and an end time. And you know how it will fit with your day as opposed to randomly picking up the phone to look at Instagram. And then, you know, yes, a similar time could go or more, but you feel bad about it because there were other things you felt you should be doing, as opposed to it being what you have chosen for that time.

Yeah, I allow myself now to just have fun time. Another thing I do is I play this silly little game on my phone. When I'm sitting around with the family and we're just kind of talking, instead of just, you know, eyeballs on everybody, I just get out the phone. I'm like, like playing this mindless game while we're chatting and the grandson's running around. Like, the kids play on their phone all the time. Why can't I play on my phone every once in a while? So a couple days a week, you'll just see me like for 30 minutes playing this game until it tells me I have to pay them $2.99. I'm like, oh, I guess I'm done for the day now.

Done for the day now. That's the, that's the dividing line once they start charging you. Exactly. Lisa, what are you looking forward to right now?

I'm really looking forward to the research I'm going to be able to do and to be able to create more systems like the Sunday Basket and also to make them more generalizable and more accessible to everyone. So I am looking on starting a 501. That is one of my little index cards because I am starting to realize how everyone needs operational systems at home. I'm talking to people in Habitat for Humanity here in Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm talking to the Free Store Food Bank. I'm talking to a group that moves people from homelessness into households. And I'm really saying that once we move people into households, or once they graduate from high school and they're on the free store food bank, like, how are they going to run their household? There are some management things that everyone needs that are not being taught. And I feel that's part of how people fall back into homelessness or are not able to be self-sufficient, especially if you're young and you are a single mother, which when my daughter gave birth, 40% of women in 2021 were single women giving birth. And so, you know, you don't have that marriage structure, that, that cohabitating partner with you to help you in the household. There are a lot of needs out there that are not being addressed because they're not being looked at.

Absolutely. Well, I know you will add to the discussion a lot on that. So Lisa, can you please let our listeners know where they can find you?

Sure. The company is called Organized 365. I have a podcast that's been running for 10 years. And I'm most active on Instagram under Organized Awesome.

Well, Lisa, thank you so much for joining us, and thanks to my Before Breakfast listeners for sticking around for these longer episodes. I hope you are enjoying them. Feel free to send me feedback at laura@lauravanderkam.com. And in the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of our time.

Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at laura@lauravanderkam.com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia.

For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, If you're ready to feel confident again, visit OrderlyMeds.com to learn about which GLP-1 you may be eligible for. Getting started is fast, easy, and happens virtually through telemedicine from licensed professionals. Gain confidence, take control, and start living your best life. Choose healthy habits this fall. Check it out for yourself. Go to OrderlyMeds.com. That's OrderlyMeds.com. Taking care of yourself feels great. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

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