Colleen Tralongo, Lois Letchford, & Lisa McCarty "When Learning is Trauma" and dyslexia.

Well, if your husband wanted to do a construction project, I'd hire him.

Well, yeah, I would too because he knows what he's doing. There you go.

Yeah, we got a few people who are all of a sudden everybody's doing home improvement right now.

It's gotta be Colleen. Colleen T. I've got to get my name right. T-R-A. Where are my details?

No, you need to click.

There we go.

So, oh, thank you.

Where are you at in Pennsylvania? Do you have a name or city?

Oh, I'm in southeastern Pennsylvania. It's near Quaker Hill or Montgomeryville.

Have you heard of Oil City?

I've heard of it, but I'm not sure where that is. I have to look that up.

Southwestern Um, near Seneca. Um, that's where my grandparents— Have you heard of Grove City College?

What is it?

Grove City College.

Hmm, Grove City College. Not ringing a bell, really.

It's very small. That's where my mom went.

I have both of my parents are dyslexic. They're both artists, professional artists. My father was a photographer. My mom was an art designer, and I can draw a pretty good stick figure on a good day.

So I'm not.

I don't have that talent. Are we live?

We are live. We are live. We have one minute before four o'clock.

We have.

I've made our changes. We— there's a lot of little fiddling that has to be done.

Sure.

Once you go live, you know, and it all takes time. And I don't know why you can't do it prior to going live, but who am I? So welcome, Colleen. I'm so pleased you've joined us.

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Yeah. So I'm going to start. It's thank you for joining us for our seminar series, When Learning Is Trauma. Before I begin, I have to acknowledge my son Isaac and his buddy Chris for their input because none of this would have happened without them. I am Lois Letchford. I'm the author of the book Reverse Dilemma and Literacy Problem Solver. Lisa, tell us about you.

And I'm Lisa McCarty. I am the wife and the mother of a couple of dyslexic boys and a husband, and I'm an RN. I work in the drug and alcohol industry and the mental health field.

And today we welcome Colleen. She's your Chief Matchmaker of Trilongo Talent Advantage, mum of a dyslexic, and educational advocate. Colleen has run her own talent practice in Silicon Valley for 18 years and has been a CEO of an edtech startup, and she's a warrior mum of a dyslexic son. She holds an MBA in finance and credentialed HR professional, in addition to advocating for understanding dyslexia, diversity, and inclusion in hiring. Thank you for being here. And so we'll talk about it. Colleen, tell us a bit about your story before we start.

Okay, well, going back to my son who I showed up at his preschool one day and the preschool teacher pulled me aside. I need to talk to you, okay? She said, you know, I think your son is going to have a really hard time reading and he's going to have a super hard time in school. And I was like, what? I had— I was stunned. I was like, oh, okay. I started processing that and that day began the beginning of our journey. with trying to understand what was wrong with him. It took me another 3 years to get him formally diagnosed, 3, 3 and a half years, and 3 IEPs in the public school system, which showed absolutely nothing related to dyslexia. So we paid for professional testing.

Right.

And I remember the exact day, where I was at, what was going on. I was looking at my son. I got a call from the testing person, and before I had gone on the trip, we were on vacation, she said, I think he's probably a little dyslexic, you know, dyslexic-like.

Right.

And she called and she said, oh, I'm sorry to let you know, but your son is profoundly dyslexic. Heart sink, you know, just shock of what that meant, what, how that was going to impact my life or my family's life, my son's. And, you know, that's kind of how the story begins.

What struck me You know, when you're in preschool, the first thing you all thought was, what is wrong with him?

Exactly. I mean, listen, I come from PhDs, doctors, everybody's college educated on my mom and dad's side, and for somebody to just say your son's going to have a hard time reading, I didn't even know what dyslexia was. I didn't— nobody used that word for several years, right? And it was a long, slow, painful process to get to the point of acknowledgement of some professional saying, this is what's going on. And then beyond that, of course, you know, throwing yourselves into what that is. What it isn't, what it means, all of those things.

What year was that?

Colin was formally diagnosed in the middle of 2nd grade, and it was almost too late. You know, the school that he went to, we chose to send him to a small private parochial school, which was a wise decision for the fact that he was not Like, not horribly bullied, right? But it was— the downside was they didn't understand what dyslexia was. They had some help with resource specialists, but not really. And so we had to kind of attack it on our own outside of that school at that time.

Can I ask a quick question? Did your son at that point, what was he feeling like? Do you remember? Talking to him?

Oh, you know, this boy, he's something else. Um, he had to go to kindergarten, right? This little guy. Uh, I remember the teacher pulling us aside and saying, you know, Colin's just gonna need a little bit more time. This was before the diagnosis. And for me, heartbreak, like sadness, heartbreak, fear, you know, all of those things that we all feel when we have a kid that doesn't fit in, right? So, going through that process, he was very fine with it. He was like, well, you know what, I'll make some new friends. So, Colin was great. When he got to 2nd grade and we got the formal diagnosis, he was definitely feeling anxiety and stress about falling behind, having, you know, fallen further and further behind in terms of being able to read. And so when this all happened, in some ways I think it was a relief for all of us. And, you know, God bless his heart, the best decision, the absolute best decision that we ever made, and we made it jointly, Colin, his father, and myself. I remember pulling him aside and I said, well, this is what's going on. You want to out yourself or do you want to like And he's like, well, it's what I am, it's who I am, so yeah, let's let everybody know.

What staggers me is, you know, we're not even talking in the 1990s. Your son's not 20 yet.

He's 21.

So he's 21, so he was born 1999. So we're still in the 2000s and we say the child's dyslexic, We don't know what to do.

So the conversation of trauma, right? What happens when you find this new self? You're in shock. You're in fear. You are dealing with a multitude of different things all at once. by the way I work, I mean, I'm, you know, working, husband's working, I've got another kid.

Yeah.

You know, it's just like all of these things going on. And there wasn't a lot of— I think for me, I mean, what happened to me is I went into action.

Yeah.

That was my, you know, my— the mama lion, right? We're like, My kid, you know, is going to be okay, and I'm going to do everything in my living, breathing power to make sure that he's going to be okay, but not really knowing. Yeah, that's— that is wrong right there.

You don't know, you know.

If you don't have resources, if you don't have access to knowledge, if you don't have Why waste money, you know, to go to professionals that tell you probably everything is going to be okay, you know? And who could tell you at that point, right? Nobody can tell you that.

It reminds me of what Raja said last week, and that was it just takes over your life.

So I— this is the story I want to tell you. I appreciate this. Caitlin, Colin, and dyslexia.

Yes, which one takes the most— which one takes up the most thought power?

So the thing I find so frustrating is that, you know, you are in a system where you're surrounded by people who have no idea what this is. No idea what to do. And I would say that you were— your family was lucky that you found out what the problem was, because how many kids don't know that? You can't own up to something that you don't understand or you don't know. And I feel like— Well, a lot of people know my story, but we— I had 3 boys. One was not diagnosed, and, you know, it was really hard for him. And my youngest son was, and he's in that— I think you had said the last time— safe environment. So he's with kids that are sort of like-minded, and he's able to talk about it. The public schools are really hard for these kids because nobody knows what this is, and the kids don't know, and they feel very unusual.

I think there's also a pressure in the public school that children have to meet meet these benchmarks at this. And so we're pushing on those who can, and those who can't, well, it's just too hard.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Public schools are, you know, depending on your public school district, if you're in a, you know, high-income district— I think it still happens.

We're in a high-income district.

It's hard. It's just hard to fish out of the You're dear to me. And I am— I mean, believe me, oh, when I was writing a letter to my son's university, we were asking for additional money for college because, believe me, we stopped saving for college when he was diagnosed. We couldn't afford it. We had to choose. It was, um, him So, you know, when we went through the application process, I wrote my story. I actually analyzed the costs. And, you know, there's some debate about how I came up with those numbers, but I'm telling you, it changes your trajectory in life. Dyslexia changes a family's trajectory in life unless you have unlimited resources.

Yeah.

Access to And we are one of the lucky ones. I am married to a man who was bringing home the bacon, right? And he was working a second job, and I was trying to run my consulting practice. And it's hard. And nobody knows. There it is, like, oh, it's just getting your P's and your Q's mixed up, right?

No, you're absolutely right. Nobody knows, and they just, they just sit there and frown and nod and, and give us no options, and they don't really understand what's going on because, you know, it was the reading specialist who left us in the lurch. You didn't have a clue.

Well, I mean, I will tell you that between 6th and 7th grade, we were getting ready to We'll call out because— And, um, a reading specialist came in that summer and they had a change of heart. And I— she called me and during the summer and she said that Colin's gonna be fine. And I was like, okay, tell me why he's gonna be fine. Well, I went to a dyslexia conference and I learned all of this information about dyslexia. You know, I know what we can do. He's, you know, we're going to work through this. He's going to be fine. So that was a titanic shift at the school. And then in addition to that, we found a resource specialist who did the full-blown, like, math testing. And it was, you know, it was his Feedback to us as parents on, on the phone that gave us that glimmer of hope.

It sounds almost trivial to say he's going to be fine, but it actually is really important.

When we were getting the results back from this gentleman, who's a lovely, lovely gentleman, very innovative in his approach and the way he thinks about remediation and advocacy and all these things. You know, there was a lot of feedback that was negative, not good, not good enough. And then he read the one study report and he was like, oh, Colin's gonna be fine. He's super smart. And, you know, you can imagine, we all know, you know, we're all like in the same chair, right? You're just like, okay, somebody's telling— and then it took another, you know, 3 years for me to actually like go, okay.

He's gonna be fine.

Yeah. He's going to be okay. He's gonna make it.

Yeah.

And that was right before he went into high school. He worked so hard in middle school to get his grades up, to get, you know, everybody came together, all the teachers, the principal, his resource specialist, his educational therapist. We all like, you know, created this circle for him. And that got him into a college prep high school. Where he continued to be challenged. I mean, dyslexia doesn't go away, right? But it changed his trajectory in life.

You have written here, you know, when you were talking to me, that you as a mother became a symphony conductor. Tell us about that, because that sounds like what you did in middle school.

When you are having— thank God my brain is wired the way it is— um, when you're having to deal with all of this stuff, there are a lot of moving parts, right? You are first trying to figure out what's going on, then you get the, the, okay, now here we are, then you've gotten into the word meaning amongst all of the different In and around the circle of what's going on with the child. Or your school, your teachers, your— all of the things that happen in and around schoolwork, the educational therapist. Maybe your kid has, you know, like some physical therapy they have to do, occupational therapy. Colin did that for a little while. Um, tutors. You know, you're trying to integrate the child into normal school, normal friends, life, you know, and you're juggling all of this emotional turmoil inside.

Yeah, yeah, yes.

And, you know, it's funny because I must be pretty tough because, you know, I don't know, maybe people really knew, right? Like, you're holding it together, right? So like everything looks like, oh, not that big a deal. It's like, you know, they're handling it with nobody really knowing or understanding the absolute turmoil that is going on inside the family unit, inside the next layer out, all of these Parts, like a symphony conductor.

Yeah.

That you're having to manage. And then the finances, your family. Some of your family members don't get it either. First line blood, they don't understand.

It's very isolating.

It is incredibly isolating. And, and when you're in it, all you're doing is you're just swimming upstream.

Yeah.

You're just swimming upstream. You're gasping for breath. You're managing all of these, juggling all of these different balls, trying to, you know, manage things. You know, you'll get a reprieve and then something else will happen, right? It'll come back. And It is a job. Yeah. I don't know how I worked and did it at the same time. I mean, I look back and I'm like, yeah. And then there was this family dynamic stuff that was fun too.

And it's so isolating for the children. Um, it would just be so nice if in school we had people, a lot of people who understood what this is. Who are able to, you know, talk to the children and maybe even connect them together so they don't feel so abnormal. You know, that's the thing that I struggle with. My younger son is in a fancy private school with a lot of like-minded kids, but that's not where he came from. He came from a public school where he had to feel like the odd man out, you know, surrounded by adults who had no idea what this was. Didn't know how to talk to him, didn't know how to explain to him that he is a normal kid. You know what the nature of the issue was, and it wasn't until he was in eighth eighth grade when we found out or he found out. I knew he was dyslexic, but I didn't want to label him, and that's you know that's a mistake that I wish I had told him flat out sooner. He asked me, "Am I dyslexic?" And I said, "Yeah, you are," and we talked about it, and he said, "Well, that explains it." You know, it just would have been nice if he had. Pride of kids that understood this as well, because it is isolating for parents. We go through a lot. We feel like we don't have support. Who do you talk to? How do you manage your own stress? And then you have to remember that our poor kids are surrounded, you know, in a, in a, in a really tough environment. Being a kid is just tough in general.

Right.

Then to have to feel alone You know, traveling this road. I mean, it sounds like your son was so lucky to have all the support. I just like I can't even imagine that would just be so great if that was everywhere.

In that environment, in that social school, bullying is not tolerated. Yeah. So he was different. Everybody knew it. Like, you know, the thirty kids that were in his classroom, everybody knew Colin was. dyslexic, but he was just like, you know, for him it was hard, you know, the anxiety-producing thing that happens when, you know, it's your turn to read or that you got pulled out into the special reading group, you know. But his personality, his ability to be able to maneuver through things and own who he was, I think, was a Critical, critical decision, and it's, and it's very hard, and I don't judge any parent for making any decision one way or another about what they do. I am not doing that. Everybody is so individual, but for him, keeping him in that, that was the only right thing that we could do.

Well, he wrote a book, didn't he? I actually just bought that book today because I'm going to be working with a little 2nd grader That is distraught. She cries constantly. You know, again, she's in a system that is not supportive, doesn't understand this. So I bought this book. I want you to tell us a little bit about that because I'm hoping that it helps her feel like she's not alone.

Yes.

So I encouraged Colin to write a book, tell a story. About his journey. And in true fashion, it, you know, it took a while. He was in the process of— he started it in his senior year in high school, and he had to find an illustrator. And, you know, it's just writing a book is— Lois, yeah, you can talk to that. It is a lot. And so anyways, it's a story. It's called I'm Just Different. And it's, it's his story through the eyes of Billy. And his journey from, you know, figuring out what was going on. It's written for children. And his, you know, his journey all the way through the educational process, through high school and actually getting into college. And it's written very simply and with sparse And to— he wrote it with the intention of being able to provide hope and inspiration for kids who were like him, because there wasn't a book. I think there was one book at the time. There was no book.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'm Not Different is— it's on Amazon, and it was only written with the intent to give a child, a parent, Give it to a teacher. Show them, hey, here, look, this is kind of what's going on. This is our reality. Like, you should educate kids in your classroom about what this is and what it isn't. Just opening up the dialogue, right, in and around what it is.

Yeah.

And what it means and how, you know, we can inclusively open, welcome people who Think different. It's not a big deal. It's a big deal to get through the education system the way that we've designed it and how we test and judge people, which we're all finding out right now has got some flaws.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's just gaining that understanding and knowledge so that we can all move forward together in acceptance and learning and perhaps even Like learning for what we'll call the neurotypical people to learn, to learn a little differently, to think about learning differently.

Yeah, we, we take so much just on how we see people, and then we perceive, then we make judgments, and those judgments are not always net positive, and that causes our expectation to plummet. Sends us on a really downward spiral. My husband made a very good— made an analogy this week. It's a cookie cutter system and we shove people through it and, you know, various parts get chopped off. Some manage to squeeze themselves through the cookie cutter and others can't. And I thought, you know, well, that happens, doesn't it? If you manage to make your way through it, you're lucky.

It's called unconscious bias. And yes, I mean, I can only speak to the hiring process. That's a whole nother talk. Like, yes, we're talking about diversity and inclusion.

Yes.

Yes.

So that's the best part.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, it's— this is the bottom line. When you have somebody who understands dyslexia, and is an advocate for opening up discussion in and around that conversation. It's a game changer.

Yeah.

So I, you know, I incorporate it into my life as I can, and I educate, I talk for a living. So people, you know, sometimes we go there. Being different is okay. My father has— I can't remember the exact phrase he said, but, you know, Colin's not different, everybody else is.

Yeah.

They're different in the way they look at things, right?

Yeah.

So—

Colleen, were you able to teach him self-advocacy skills?

Oh yes.

Oh yes. We, uh, from the very beginning, when you open up yourself to being who you are, um, and, uh, that's the first and most important step. And then beyond that, you know, through the educational journey, you've got to teach the child how to have conversations with their teachers. And about things that are working or not working, or when the homework comes back and it's, you know, there's spelling errors, right? The most important thing that we can do as parents is to help give the child access to accommodations in the educational system and make sure from an advocacy standpoint that those accommodations are being followed.

Right.

And if they're not, then you open up the conversation to why. What does that mean? Like, you have to monitor the child all the way through the education process too, because they're changing teachers every year, right? And then they get to a point where now they have like 5 teachers in one year.

Yeah.

So it's, you know, over and over and over. You know, and through that process, if you as a parent are teaching the child to self-advocate, to participate, to send the emails, to have the conversations— oh, I remember so well all of that. And that's a gift that you're teaching your child. And Colin uses that today in college.

Yeah.

He knows how to advocate for himself. And you cannot survive unless you have those skills. Yeah.

So that's critical. That's critical to their success.

Critical. Absolutely, 100% critical to surviving. And actually, I think that for humans in general, self-advocacy, being able to, you know, help people understand what's going on with you, Is super important in life. You know, we all have things that are going on. To be able to be comfortable and strong and, you know, confident, and that is not an easy thing to do. Not an easy thing to do, but being able to be okay with who you are.

Yeah.

And help educate others about what that means. And learn how to stand up for yourself and what your rights are. And it's critical. Also, mental health, right? I mean, acceptance is key.

Yeah, I love the advocacy, teaching them how to have that self-advocacy. And in fact, the PBIDA just had their fall conference, and we had a speaker Mr. Lederick Horn, who gave a wonderful presentation, and he made a big point to say that those— that leadership opportunity is so important. And when you're teaching these kids this self-advocacy and also giving them other opportunities to be leaders, it does a lot for their self-esteem, and it really gives them those life skills that they can carry into their adult world, and it's so important. But I don't think we do that a lot, especially with the IEP meetings and things like that. It's usually the adults that are fighting back and forth, and that's a mistake. I think we really have to be able to teach the kids how to take control.

Yes.

Practice those skills.

And then what you're talking about is building on their strengths, giving them leadership opportunities.

These kids, I mean, you can't lump them all together, but Oh my gosh, if they make it through the food chain, resilient, determined, compassionate, leaders, doers, thinkers, like the way they operate in life is amazing. Yeah, it's, you know, we need more people With these life skills to— in life, you know, in work, in, you know, at the grocery store.

Like, yes.

The characteristics that a lot of dyslexics have to begin with are wonderful. And I think if they are nurtured and supported and taught to Advocate and own who they are and build inclusivity is like the secret sauce to being able to get through it. And many don't.

Yeah, that's true.

To get through it and thrive, not just survive.

Thrive. Because, yeah, I mean, ultimately it's hard for quote-unquote normal people to be able to— I mean, it's You know, life's hard. You have challenges, you have things that happen in life, and boy, I'm going to tell you that dyslexics, if they make it through, not much is going to stop them. They have a lot of resiliency.

I need to hear that. We have a question from Chris, and he says, Colleen, what advice do you have for students with dyslexia?

Oh my gosh, what advice? Well, how old is— how old is the, uh—

He would be 22, 22 or 23.

22 or 23.

Okay.

Do you know you're dyslexic? I mean, do you, like, do you have an understanding of yourself and Your challenges would be number one, most important. And do you have a support system? I mean, everybody has to have some sort of a support system around them to be able to maneuver with this challenge. And family, friends, school— you have to be able to have people that Can lift you up, be there when you're challenged. And, you know, certainly in life when you're moving through towards jobs, you know, being able to figure out where you best fit, right, is a really important thing. So understanding your strengths and weaknesses and where you best fit in the, in the job market. That would be my advice. I mean, generically.

They do have to understand themselves, and I think sometimes that's a little bit harder than we realise, particularly if they've gone under the radar.

Yeah.

Very difficult. It is amazing to me how many make it through, sometimes to college, and that's where the implosion happens.

Yeah.

Which tells you an awful lot about that person.

Yeah.

Like, that they were able to enable through the system.

Yeah.

And get to that point, it blows my mind.

But then how important is it to, once you're in college, you have to seek out those supports.

You absolutely have to.

You have to do that. And you also have to have an understanding, like you said, Colleen, what is your— how do you think? How do you learn? Where are my weak points? Where are my— I mean, that's good advice for anybody. But especially the dyslexic learner, you have to know, you know, where your strengths are, the weaknesses, and seek out those supports because they are out there. But you might have to, once you're in the adult world, you know, really dig for them. Because when you're in a school system, you know, it might be a little bit easier if you've had those supports. And like you said, once they get to college, sometimes it just, you know, it kind of, it starts to fall apart a little because you have to, you have to have those supports.

So all I can tell you is there is so much more information now about dyslexia. There's resources, there's like— the internet is full of information now. Like, research, learn. You know, there are places that you can go to, especially if you're in college, you should be connected to the disabilities department. Even if you haven't been formally diagnosed, like, those are resources that you can access. And there are resources outside of that. There's tons of nonprofits. There's, you know, I think education is empowerment.

I love that.

Education is empowering. If you don't know who you are, if you don't know your strengths and weaknesses, How can you possibly begin to navigate anything?

Yeah, good point.

I just had to write that down. Because as you talk, I thought, well, that was me, you know, undiagnosed all the way through college. And it was only when I was nearly 40 that I realized, hey, this is what's happened. And it leaves you, like me with writing, it leaves you with a huge deficit.

We all have strengths and weaknesses. Dyslexia is, in my view, can be a tremendous strength.

Oh my gosh.

The way the brain works is unique and individual in all of us, and whether you have a neurotypical brain or a neurodiverse brain, who cares? It's really about understanding what that means and not coming to the table with unconscious bias. I mean, it could be reversed. I mean, people could look at neurotypical people as being just sitting in that, you know, middle, like, as opposed to outliers who are just a little different, right? I mean, it takes all of us together to To build unique teams, unique companies, unique cultures. And it just rolls into that whole diversity and inclusion discussion, which we have all the time. I mean, we're doing an awful lot of talking about that again right now.

Yeah. We joke about that in our house now. My youngest son, he's a funny guy. And he'll say— every day, he'll say, oh, Non-dyslexics, like, oh, I have to put up with you non-dyslexics. Like, you know, and it's funny, but it actually helps to build that, you know, it helps to build that self-confidence that he should have. He should be feeling confident with himself, you know, and it's a shame that when you're coming through the system, it doesn't get you, you know. So it's kind of a joke, but it's, but it's true too, you know. I can't think the way they do.

You know, my brain's wired a little differently too, and, and that's okay. You know, I found my niche.

Yes.

I started out in finance and I was fine. Finance was okay. I didn't love it. You know, I love people. I love helping. I love coaching. I love— I found my strength, right, through I did a lot of nonprofit work. That's how I found my strength, right? I listened to what other people were telling me. Hey, you're really good with people. You should go into sales, you should go into recruiting, you should do something with people. And I switched. So I found my path. I found my happy place and my superpowers and where I'm supposed to be in the ecosystem through my own life journey, because I'm inquisitive and curious and listening and, you know, Taking information in, that's who I am. And we all have to have that. You have to be curious about who you are, where you fit in, into the circle, right? Whatever it is, strengths, weaknesses, maybe you're not—

you don't—

not everybody has to go to college.

Yeah.

Not everybody needs to go to college.

We have a question.

Yes.

How do you make the connection with your teachers? If you were slow to connect with the DRC for the current semester.

Okay.

And if, like, you're messing up, but it relates to your mental health, your brain, not lack of effort.

So, office hours, in-person contact. This is something I tell my son all the time. Go see the teacher. Show up at the office hours. Hey, I'm— it's me. Bring them an article about dyslexia. Talk to them. Tell them, this is what I need. Like, these are the things that I'm struggling with. I'm working with the disability department. I'm, you know, I'm in the process of trying to get set up. Oftentimes what you will find is that other humans, when you have human contact, really do want to help. You know, not everybody, but they do want you to succeed. They do want you to learn. They, you know, you have to open up that dialogue. You have to educate them. There's a lot of teachers that don't understand, even at the college level, you know. And, and so having those open, honest conversations, that's— I'd be at those office hours every Every week.

My husband's a professor and he says exactly that.

Yeah.

And, and, and from some of the articles I've read, students who connect with professors are far less likely to fail and they benefit more than just getting good grades. It's for long term that you gain.

Well, not only the dyslexic student, But the teacher gains too.

Yes, yes.

They gain— they get educated, they gain maybe a little empathy and understanding. They actually— Colin was interviewed by— there's a computer science professor at St. Ed's who teaches, um, kids who are a little after grade, and he knows I'm a neurodiversity advocate and he knows about Colin. He actually interviewed Colin to talk about how to tweak his curriculum. Yeah. So that he can incorporate that into his teaching style.

Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah.

I told him, I suggested to him, you should interview Colin because he's going to be able to tell you how to do it a little different.

Yeah.

Which everybody benefits from, by the way.

Yes. Yes, that's a good point.

We also benefit from learning differently. We are in this, like, rote system that's not working. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm excited for what's coming in education. I'm hopeful.

Very— that's wonderful. Well, Xena said thank you. Human contact a little harder during quarantine. But I know, I know that the Zoom calls are working just as well. And they, you know, they're using them. So we have to do Zoom. It's still better than sitting back.

You have to get in the professor's face. Just like we are here. You just, you have to be present.

Yes.

It humanizes you.

Yes.

And it humanises the professor.

Yes. Yes. It brings it— Colleen, thank you. I just wanted to reiterate, when you were saying educate, educate, educate, what are you doing? Build self-advocacy skills for your children.

Yes.

So that they can be successful. And finally, as a parent, you become a symphony conductor. I love that. The director to help kids succeed.

Right.

Is there anything else you want to add?

Well, I would like to thank both of you ladies for doing this and for creating access to information and an opportunity for people to come and share their stories, because at the end of the day, it's It's all about the story, and all about being human, and having the conversations about how we need to all continue to advocate for education about what dyslexia is and what it isn't. And the more we talk, you know, the more— there's stuff happening.

Yeah.

Like never before. I'm excited.

We have a question. We have one One more question before we go. What advice do you have for students— now it's just shifted— what advice do you have for students that have professors that act like they don't want to help?

Good question. That is something that Colin and I both experienced. For a student that's in college that doesn't have a parent resource, you definitely have to go to that disability department. I mean, they are going to be your lifeline. You know, sometimes there are people who are just not going to accept or want to understand what's going on. And just like in life, when you go into a job, into a company, there's going to be people that you want to work with and there's going to be people that you don't.

Yes.

So you have to go back to that Toolbox that you're building, your self advocacy toolbox. Whether it's giving them information, you know, maybe a written document. Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, I could go out on a limb here. You could do a video and send it to them. Yes. Why not?

Yes.

Send them a clip of a story, a YouTube video, a. A little movie short, something that shows them.

Yeah.

Think about introducing the concept of dyslexia and accommodations in a different way. Maybe they're, they're not, they're not intaking it from a written standpoint. Maybe it's a video, maybe it's something that you put together, right? I mean, you have to try and educate them, and at the end of the day, Some, you know, I can think of a very specific situation that happened in Collins High School that resulted in a filming, and there was nothing we could do. So we did the best that we could, and you just, you get through it.

Which is all you can do. We've got one more, another question. And secondly, how do you replicate walking into a teacher's office to talk casually if it's unrelated to course material? What is your advice for maintaining rapport for student teacher?

Being honest.

I would not today walk into an office. I would always make an appointment.

Yes. I would always make an appointment. So, okay, I understand. Yeah, make a Zoom video appointment. I mean, you know, make a formal appointment. Yes. And, and, you know, just open up, open up the dialogue. Hey, this is, you know, love your class. These are my challenges. Hey, I want to tell you a little bit about my learning style. These are the things that are going on.

Say that again.

I want to, I want to tell you about my learning style.

Perfect.

Tell you How I intake information. My son listens to all of his books.

Yeah.

It's all audio.

Yep.

And it's like, it's on like speed dial. I can't understand what he's listening to. He cranked it up to 10.

Yeah.

It goes— somehow it's going in his brain. I don't know how. I have to leave the room.

Yeah.

Because I can't understand it. But so everybody gets information in differently. And if there's anything that, you know, after the discussion of what is going on with you and your learning style, if there's anything that the professor can do to help accommodate, right?

Yep.

And, you know, make sure to, if you're in college, mention that you're talking to the disability department. So honesty, openness, follow through, follow up. Follow up, follow up, creating, like Lois said, that personal connection. I agree with you 100%. You're rarely going to fail if the professor sees that you are working hard and you are doing everything you can, right, to be successful in their class. They want to know that. They're there to teach you.

And it's maintaining rapport. And I think what you said there is compliment them first all the time because it makes you like you're even looking and listening.

Yes.

So what other advice have you got for maintaining rapport?

For any relationship in life?

Ah, yes, it works for any. Yes.

Right. Be kind. Try to not be stressed. Try to be open, humble. Acknowledge people's hard work and effort that they're putting into whatever it is they're providing to you. I mean, people ultimately want to be acknowledged, right? So I love Stephen Covey.

Rock on.

And this is my favorite habit: seek first to understand, then to be understood. It's such a simple thing, but think through where the person that you are speaking to is coming from. Take a moment and listen. Be prepared with what you want to say, but listen to what the other person is saying back to you, and that opens up that open, honest conversation. And Sometimes breaks down the wall for other people to receive what you have to say.

So you want, you want words in your phrase box, I'm hearing, don't you? You want a backpack of these things so that when you are in a stressful situation, you've practiced it prior so that you know what to say. The author you mentioned was Stephen Covey, C-O-V-E-Y.

Stephen Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Read it. He is— you're right, that's like my Bible. Those habits are so simple. Yeah, and I have it here, so I've got to read it again. But that's my favourite. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. Yeah.

Thank you, Colleen. Thank you for your time and for all of your advice. And, you know, the building self-advocacy, building inclusion, building education, because it's education across the board. Isn't it? So, yeah. And where can people find you if they want to connect with you again?

LinkedIn. I live on LinkedIn. It says it on the top of my headline, neurodiversity advocate. And I am, you know, I'm a diversity and inclusion advocate, including neurodiversity. You know, we, we need to be talking about that in the workforce in addition to everything else, diversity and inclusion and unconscious bias and all of these things that go on in the workplace.

Yeah.

That's my personal kind of pet project, is to just continue the dialogue about these things. And I do have people reach out to me and, you know, I can tell where they're coming from because they're like, wow, you actually have that on your LinkedIn profile.

Yes, yes.

And when I need—

you know, everyone needs that support as we face this world that we do now.

I want people to know I am Switzerland.

Well, thank you again. Lisa, where can we find you?

Well, I'm on Facebook and, you know, I'm here every Monday except for when I'm working. But mostly Facebook. I haven't done LinkedIn yet. I'm on it, but I'm never on it. So I'm mostly— maybe one of these days. But Colleen, I just wanted to say thank you to you for all the things that you do for that. I think that's so important for these people in the workforce and just in the world in general. And I just think that's terrific work. So I thank you for your hard work in this.

Thank you, and all we need to do is keep talking and educating, which is what we're trying to do with our series.

And with that, we're— next week is our last week in this series, and we talk to Dr. Neil Alexander-Pasey from London, UK, and his book is Dyslexia and Mental Health, which I am reading at the moment, and so is Lisa.

I have it.

And it's really quite a fascinating read.

Right. So I hope that, you know, if teachers, educators are listening to this, that they can know that Colin has a children's book that's accessible on Amazon.

Yes, yes.

It's a good opening to a dialogue in a classroom, if nothing else.

And the title of that again is?

I'm Just Different.

I'm Just Different.

I love it.

Yes, perfect. And my book is Reversed: A Memoir. Check it out. Connect with me on Facebook and Twitter @LetchfordLois. And I'm doing more YouTube videos, and the last one was on expectations. Expectations make a difference. And please hit the like and subscribe button. And my website is loislatchford.com. And my son has to tell me what to say or I forget it. So thank you, thank you all, thank you, Colleen, and we will connect again. All right, thank you, Lisa, and we'll see you again next week. Thank you. Our series, When Learning Is Trauma. End stream. Thanks, Colleen. You're welcome.

I hope that was— so do you, do you like edit it and clip it, or how does that—

what do I do next?