When Learning is Trauma: Jake Sussmanm Lois Letchford, and Lisa McCarty

Hello, welcome!

Hello!

Take, take what?

Perfect.

I'm Lois Letchford with Lisa McCartney and our guest today, Jake Sussman. Since we've been talking for 5 minutes, Jake, introduce yourself.

Hello everybody, hello, hello. My name is Jake Sussman. I'm a dyslexic ADHD changemaker, uh, founder of Superpower Consulting, which is a mentorship firm for kids and young adults with dyslexia and ADHD, and also the author of The Forgotten Child poem. So, so happy to be here and get in discussion. It's gonna be good.

Jake, you've got to start with your poem.

Okay, done, done. So, uh, before I get into my poem, uh, I just feel like this is going to be really good for us to, uh, kick off our conversation It's called The Forgotten Child, and here we go. I kindly ask you to please shut your eyes so you can fully understand the story that has left me so traumatized. Imagine yourself as the child that always smiled. You were wild and beguiled until the day you were profiled. This is the story of The Forgotten Child. What I am about to tell you will truly make your stomach churn. They said, I have major concern, Mr. and Mrs., but your child simply can't learn. The child was labeled disabled. He was told face to face that he should stop his chase to a higher educational place because he couldn't read any book in the bookcase. This is an absolute disgrace. Those words should never come out of anyone with a knowledge base. From that point on, he was taken out of the classroom all day long, from homeroom to 3 hours past eating in the lunchroom. He became paranoid, full of anxiety, and scared because he was told he was impaired. It felt like nobody cared. He was misunderstood as a result of educators thinking he was no good. He just needed someone to think that he could. You see, negative labels are destructive, counterproductive, and obstructive. Now, I'd like to ask you to please open your eyes to some surprise. That forgotten child is standing— well, sitting— before all of you guys. He defied the lies of this public educational enterprise. You see, what they didn't know was that this forgotten child had an epic thirst for knowledge. He refused to acknowledge, you will never go to college. He took those words and turned them from frustration into motivation. He was lacking that academic foundation, so his parents pulled him out of this cultivation they called public education. Let me bring something to rouse. Just imagine your academic journey like the construction of a house. Without the proper support, that house will fall short. He was finally put in a place where his mind was no longer a disgrace. It was a place that built his academic base as strong as an iron case. They saw him for everything he This isn't no school of thought. It is something that the public educational system simply did not. And it was the first time that the forgotten child actually smiled since the day he was profiled. Let me mention one of the most notable individuals in all of mankind with a mind that was also defined like mine. Let's take someone like Albert Einstein, a man of credibility that had a learning disability. He was lacking much value, really, despite educators much Much acuity, but that didn't stop Einstein's journey to discovering the theory of relativity. So take a minute while I spit some poetry. What's the difference between you and every person the eye can see? Truth is, there's nothing, because each and every one of us have our own unique ability. Einstein said it perfectly, that everybody is a genius, but if we judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree will live its whole life thinking that it is stupid. Don't you see? A wise man once told me that the power comes from the young people knowing that they could change the world. Don't ever give up your shot. Your mind is all you've got. It's time we changed this public educational melting pot turning your mind into a robot. You get my gist? In this world craving to coexist, It's time that we work with the kids that are missed, with those who fit the mainstream schools perfectly, and then those who learn differently. Together, I insist.

That's fantastic.

What do I do, clap or cry?

I know, both.

Thank you, thank you.

Where can we find that, by the way?

Um, I will have it available for download soon on the website.

Yeah, because I would love to like peruse that several more times. It was just fantastic. You hit on absolutely everything. That's terrific.

You know, Lisa, I wrote that in a time of my life where I was confident in who I was. I was in college. I was a junior in college, but it wasn't always like that. And, and I also want to mention for the teachers that are watching this, in no way is this a finger-pointing to you. Okay, what you heard, what you felt, whatever the emotion you have, is the feeling of a child that's in the back of your class that you can't reach. That's the feelings that they feel.

Yeah.

Right? The emotional feelings, the things that we don't really see, but we may see from the behavior or whatever. So that's the forgotten child, you know, and like, The forgotten child I've seen is— we all have it, and it's just what society doesn't accept. Everyone has the— there's a forgotten child in you. That's who you are, your truest identity, and that's really who you are. That's it right there.

Well, it was in that first line you said— would you repeat the first line again? The first 2 lines, I think it is, of your poem.

So the Imagine yourself as the child that always smiled. You were wild and beguiled until the day you were profiled. This is the story of the forgotten child.

And then the next line.

Okay. What I am about to tell you will truly make your stomach churn. They said, I have major concern, Mr. and Mrs., but your child simply can't learn.

Yeah, because I thought there was traumatized in there. Is that in the next line?

Oh, I'm sorry, that is at the very beginning. So I kindly ask you to please shut your eyes so you can fully understand the story that has left me Yeah. Yeah.

I'll tell you again how this series came about. And my son failed first grade, but anyway, he failed first grade and supposedly told he has a low IQ. 25 years later, he receives his PhD in applied mathematics, and I start asking him, I said, and I'm thinking, you know, now Nicholas will be able to tell me what happened in grade 1. My son sat there and he cried and his tongue went round and round in his mouth and not a word came out when I asked him what happened in first grade. And that's when I realized the trauma of what had happened during— 25 years earlier. And that's exactly what you're talking about, that absolute, you know, loss of person really, isn't it? Which is what happens when you don't learn within the normal range.

Yeah, you know, it's, uh, when you don't— when you're made to believe that you are actually— when you're made to believe that you're less than others because you don't quite fit in the mold very well.

Your words, made to believe.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's, you know, that's incredible.

So Jake, you do a lot, you interview a lot of people, and recently you've been interviewing some people that have to do with your, the business that you started. Do you mind sharing a little bit of your story, your personal story, if you would, and then how that morphed into this business that you, you have now?

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it's funny because I do a lot of interviews, and to be on the other end, it's kind of interesting. So, appreciate it. Thanks for the invite.

Tell me your story.

Yeah. So for me, it really started in 3rd grade where I was a behavioral problem, kicked out of the classroom all the time. Buddy teacher and the principal were my best friends, AKA archenemies. And it all happened during independent reading time, right? And I didn't really know this until a year or so ago. I was looking back on my report cards during elementary school. I actually don't have a lot of memory of my elementary and middle school years, and I'll explain why in a little bit. Mm-hmm. But I started to realize that I was different, and I was taken out of the classroom. I was bullied by different kids. The school itself, this elementary school, That's not where it got really bad. You know, I was a behavioral problem, right? Because I was being kicked out of the classroom, all that. But it really started to develop into my— into 6th grade.

Hmm.

And if you look at it, we have to dig beneath the surface in order to grow, right? You have to dig the— go down in order to go up when you're building a house, right? So When I hit 6th grade, that was the lowest point of my life because at this point I was 3 grade levels behind in reading, forced to read out loud in class, told that I would always struggle with communication and social skills, which is ironic. And I know, um, college wouldn't necessarily be in the question for me. And I was told this to my face.

Yeah.

And that's when My parents made a decision to just pull me out on a random Tuesday in December. You're not going back. Because at this point, I was filled with fear, anxiety, and stress.

Yeah.

How do you expect someone, anyone, to learn when they're filled with fear, anxiety, and stress? The expectation was way, way too high because the school wasn't willing to look beneath the behavior and realize why. So looking back, What I realized was that starting in 3rd grade, if the only— the kind of— it was a 2-paragraph analysis of my 3rd grade year. Okay. 8 of those sentences talked about my behavioral problem.

Yeah.

There was no solution.

Yeah.

There was only, Jake needs to be more in control of his behavior as a 3rd grader, mind you.

Yeah.

And This only happened during independent reading time, but during group discussion and all that, I was fine. So the question is, why during independent reading time? And looking back, I can now say confidently it's because I'm an auditory learner. If only they put headphones on my ears, it would be a totally different story. But they were only looking at the behavior.

Yeah.

Okay, so I, I actually was pretty like, to see that now, if I'm happy my parents never showed me that report card because You know, if you think about the difference it would have made, if only I had headphones, if only they looked past everything. But it was, it was quite interesting. Now, actually, the one piece on this report card that stood out, then I'll go into more of the story. The last sentence of this report card was the most mind-blowing. It said, just like not directly quoting it, but it was something like, While Jake loves to share his bizarre, interesting facts he likes to read in nonfiction books, he needs to be more engaged in fictional books.

Okay?

And when you hear that, what's the priority? It's like I found something that I was really passionate about, but the school wanted me to read what the curriculum had, and that was fictional books. And I hate fictional books because I couldn't relate it to my life.

Yeah.

I love nonfiction. But my teacher didn't accept that, and therefore I never properly learned how to read in school. I actually taught myself how to read by reading model train books. Thomas the Tank Engine taught me how to read because I was passionate about trains. Yeah. But they were they were telling me to read other books. So long story short, yeah, I pulled out of school in sixth grade. I end up you know my social confidence wasn't there, and my parents needed me to be in a safe place. So I ended up going to a school that my cousins were at. And it was okay, but the most important thing was that my cousins were there. I had family. That was important. All right. Then after that, I actually spent 6 years in a private LD school, high-functioning learning disabilities, one called the Southport School, which was formerly Eagle Hill in Southport, Connecticut, and then high school, the Foreman School. But here's where it's interesting, okay? Because the Southport School built my academic foundation for my— for who I am as a learner. And then the Foreman School helped me kind of sprout, right? But it was— it wasn't a straight line. It was lots of ups and downs. And this is only me looking back. When you're in it, you don't realize it, obviously. You know, I end up wanting to go to college. And again, going— I wanted to prove them wrong. I want to go to college. I end up going to the only school, uh, that didn't have an academic support program. Okay, I, I went to— I wanted to go to a college that didn't have it because I needed to prove to myself that I can coexist with neurotypical people.

Hmm.

Because I was 6 years out of the public mainstream school system. Failed me. So how am I going to survive in life if I'm always going to get extra time, special extent, all this stuff, if I don't learn how to do it myself? Yeah, right. And it's scary. My parents are freaking out. My parents are freaking out. But at this point, you know, I built— I was captain of the cross-country team. I was speaker of the student body. I was like doing these different things. So I was really confident socially, academically. I found my niche. And I can tell you when exactly I clicked, you know. But as I began to learn about myself in college— now I went to Roger Williams University, and then I graduated from University of Hartford. So I went to 2 colleges. I got into 2 colleges, not just one, right? I learned that communication is the most important skill to know. Out of— reading is important. Yes, we want— everyone needs to learn how to read, 100%. But it's to communicate and articulate the way you learn to those who don't understand. That's power. And, and that happened right at the— it was like in my first class, and it was— it just all clicked for me. Right? And then this kind of stemmed to this, this passion to writing The Forgotten Child, which is what I just shared.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Now Superpower Consulting, which is our mentorship firm now, didn't happen until last year. Okay. So in between that point, when I graduated, okay, which I did graduate, it was amazing. There's this picture of me. I, when I got my diploma, I screamed, I did it in front of the entire audience. There's a picture of me on Facebook doing it. It was so awesome. Um, and I realized that again, how come this is still happening with our kids?

Yes.

You have the Richard Bransons—

Yes.

Of the world who say the same stories that when they were kids. Oh, I was misunderstood, I was bullied, I was told I couldn't do this. Our kids— I went through that.

Yes.

Our kids today are going through that.

Yes.

So how come nothing has changed?

Yes.

Okay.

So when The Forgotten Child launched, it was meant to be this— to launch this conversation of, we're actually— there's a whole demographic of people, which is the majority, the silent majority, that's not being talked about. Because 1 out of 5 people have it. Yeah, right. So when, you know, I'm kind of jumping around a little bit, but, you know, I was working for another company, I was really doing great in that company. I was, you know, building out new territories in different cities. It was a startup. It was awesome. I quit my job last October randomly on a random Thursday afternoon. I quit when we launched the Forgotten Child video to pursue my passion to give kids a voice because I found mine, right? And that's where it led to the creation of Superpower Computer consulting, which is designed not just Jake Sussman doing this, but everyone, where we have mentors all over the world who will mentor, who go, who can relate to others through shared emotional experiences and connect in ways many can't. Okay, I went to like 7 different professionals when I was younger. I, I could, I honestly Some I even— I fell asleep in their office. I don't know what was more weird, me falling asleep in their office or them letting me fall asleep in their office. So like, regardless, you know, I never connected with any professional or teachers. Oh, just kidding, I did connect with certain teachers, but more the professionals made it feel like I was broken. Okay, so the— to have someone that can say, I've been there, I actually know the pain in your stomach, what you want to just throw up when you pick up a book and want to read. I know it because that also happened to me. Yeah, that's really important because you're building a relationship that's not designed to fix someone, it's designed to be with someone. Yeah. Okay, so we've— over the past year, we've worked with over 75 kids now from around the world. Yeah, 7 to 23 years old.

Yeah.

Right. And it's been It's been an incredible journey and we're not stopping anytime soon.

Yeah, that's fantastic. And I just— just an observation, when I've seen you interview other people and you're just this like happy-go-lucky guy and big smiles and everything's grand, and then when you tell your personal story, I can feel the intensity of the emotion coming through there. I can feel it. Maybe others can't see it, but because I have family members that have been there and I myself as a parent have felt that, I'm very in tune to that and I can feel that tension that's in there talking about that. But I think it's that tension that sort of propelled you into this next journey in your life. It's so, so huge for so many people.

Right. Well, Lisa, I mean, I'll tell you, the feeling you feel, that feeling is the feeling that a mentor has with their mentee. Because you're like, wow, I can relate to you because I know exactly your story. I feel it. Like this Young individual, this kid or young man or young woman with their mentor is going to have the same feeling you have of like, oh my gosh, this person knows me more, more honestly than their own parents may and more than their own therapist may. Yeah, right. And that's that is what we're talking about. And we're not just mentoring; we're teaching these individuals, the next generation, how to self advocate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's also some other things, like in the beginning when you talked about the reading, what you preferred to read versus what the school wanted you to read. And I get it, like the schools have their agenda and it's hard for the teachers to break outside of that box, of course. But Lois has always said like the, the kid has to have some sort of buy-in to this, like it has to speak to them. It should be fun, as always, learning should be fun. So that was So that was one of the things that I took away. I know that that's Lois's passion. But the other thing is that you went to a school that specialized with learners that were similar to yourself. And in my own house, I think I'm a perfect example of a couple things. So my middle son, we didn't know he was struggling in this way. So his own parents were labeling him as the kid that wasn't paying attention, the kid that was the behavioral problem. He was the class clown. But then my younger son, by this point, we knew what the problem was, and he does go to a specialized school, and the difference between the way they see themselves is huge. So I think that for what you're doing for people is huge. I always use the term unsupported dyslexic learner, but we can throw other, other types of learners in there as well, or non-neurotypical learners. I think it's so important for these kids to have that support, as you're saying, to understand, hey, I know how you feel, but then also to know That you're not broken. I think that's a really important thing for people to know. And why we haven't gotten there in the schools yet, I don't get it. I don't understand.

Right. And I can tell you that there are 2 pieces to your point. There's the willingness to learn.

Yeah.

Which is the journey that happens before learning takes place.

Yeah, yeah.

As a society, we think learning happens when we start learning. We pick up the book when we start learning. Yeah, but what's the thing that happens before that? Every program that's out there, I don't care if it's a structured literacy program, if it's balanced literacy program, I don't care if it's— it doesn't matter. And look, I am a— I believe that kids have, kids have the ability to learn But getting them to want to learn is a whole nother ballgame. So what we create is the willingness to want to learn, right? That's it. That's it. And I think too, even if you go to a school that specializes in LD, okay, because there may be parent families watching this that they can't send their kids to a specialized school, right?

Yeah.

Let me tell you, It doesn't guarantee your child is going to graduate college. It doesn't. It really, really doesn't. 30% of U.S. college freshmen drop out of school every year.

Yeah.

30%. And if your kids go to a specialized academic school, even more so, we have to ask the question, how prepared are they to go into a new environment without the safety net for them to then on their own self-advocate for themselves. That takes someone who's strong-willed, who knows what they need, and knows how they learn. Not a lot of students, even coming out of these schools, know that.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

So you're looking not only at learning, but how they learn, and giving them words for that, the people you're mentoring.

Yeah, it's— there's 2 things. Okay, so if our ultimate goal is self-advocacy, yeah, you can't self-advocate without having confidence. Yeah, you can't have confidence without having a high self-esteem. Yeah, you can't have a high self-esteem without understanding how you learn. But what does that even mean?

Yes.

Okay, because how do I learn? That's so broad. Okay, and it goes through a few different ways that we're able to have our mentees understand how they learn without— and we, we've dyslexia, ADHD, it really, we don't, it doesn't matter what the label is in this case, because at the end of the day, every human being learns differently regardless of what you have. Every— even if you're neurotypical, whatever that means, right? Yeah. So like, you know, so everyone learns differently. So we want people to understand you have strengths you have challenges, okay? And also you have outlets. Everyone has outlets. Everyone, okay? Whether it's a sport, writing, art, dance, music, it could be anything, okay?

Oh my God.

And there's also toxic outlets that are destructive, okay? So the combination of understanding your outlets, what you need when you feel in control, and understanding your strengths and challenges Can be the winning formula that helps kids understand. Okay, so let's say I let's say I say talk to a mentee who's dyslexic, and I say, "What's what's one of your challenges?" Oh, um, dyslexia in reading. Okay, um, is dyslexia is reading a challenge? Okay, let's let's dive into this one. Reading that's so broad. Is reading the challenge? Or is it decoding the words? Is it deciphering the words and being able to visualize the sequence in your head to put two and two together to create a story? Is it visualizing it in your head? Okay. Is it listening? Are you visual auditory? What are you? So there's so many other things that come into play of saying, "Oh, just reading." Kids say, "I can't read." The amount of kids that I hear say, "I can't read," I I can't even count out my fingers. And I ask them, I say. Can you actually not read, or is it just really challenging? Because there's a huge difference. And then they— I would say 100% of the time so far I've found, 100% of them say it's just really challenging.

Right.

And it takes too much effort.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I was always told math will be one of my life's biggest challenges. And guess what? I never properly learned math. I told myself, and look, you have to embrace your weaknesses, your challenges, sure. But I told myself forever that I can't do this because of my disability. And that's where we start to say, okay, like, what about math? Because 2 plus, you know, you can, you can add things up fine. But you know what I'm saying? So I think it gets— the way we label is huge. The way we label is huge.

Yeah, and that's, that's true because I work with adults who have substance use disorders. That's what we say these days. And, and it's a shame because a lot of them had a lot of struggle in school. And when you, when you talk to them, you find out that they had similar experiences I don't know what their diagnoses are. A lot of them are not diagnosed, but they have very similar stories. And one fellow just told me, well, he had trouble reading, you know, regular things, as you said, that you didn't like to read the fictional books, but he loved poetry. He's a very creative— he has a very creative mind, so poetry made sense to me. I hate poetry. I mean, unless it's Dr. Seuss and it rhymes, I don't really understand it, but I'm not really creative that way. So he sort of spent most of his— schooling years feeling like he was bad at reading, and here he wasn't bad at reading. It just sort of depended on what he was reading, as you're saying. But he had an awful time in school. And again, I don't want teachers to think that we're coming down on them. Of course we're not. But I do want any teachers out there to listen to some of this and say, hey, I have a kid like that who's, you know, acting up in class. And then you do find oftentimes that their reading scores are low because of the way that the school systems are testing them. And then the trick is, what do you do with those, those kids and how do you reach them? I think the mentoring program is, is, is terrific.

Mm-hmm.

You mentioned also outlets. And again, my profession, the outlets that they chose were unfortunately, you know, you know, drugs, alcohol. They're trying to make a connection to other kids. You mentioned that you felt Well, you know, that you were bullied in school a little bit, and a lot of these people are. They're bullied by their peers, they're bullied sometimes by teachers, and they— everybody wants to feel a connection. So these kids, sometimes their outlet is to feel a connection with other kids that are struggling, and maybe they are the guys that are going out after school doing things that aren't as healthy. And that's, that's a problem because they don't understand themselves.

Right.

You know what it is?

It's, you know, like, for example, with ADHD, you have a lot of times you have impulsiveness. Do things without thinking, and your mind you think it's right. This happened to me. It got me in trouble a lot of times when I was a kid. Like you think you have, you think you're doing the right thing, but you're really not doing the right thing, and it's impulsive. So to and to understand your how your mind works is is so important because to be able to reflect back and say okay. So I know that I need to run every morning. I know that I need to build my model train set because that's what helps me feel in control versus something that could be toxic. And by the way, any outlet you have, even if it's a healthy outlet, could become toxic if it's used as escapism. So again, it's just having a conscious awareness To your outlets, to— everyone has it. Everyone does. You have— everyone has to have one. It's just a matter of, is it toxic or is it healthy?

Yeah.

And yeah, because it's what you fall back to when, when, when, when everything's kind of hitting the fan a little bit. And not necessarily that, it could also be when things are going great. So, yeah.

Yeah, we have a couple of questions and comments. And Wyatt says, what's the most common way that you see people learning in a way that brings out their best learning abilities? That's a big question.

That's from Wyatt? Wyatt, nice to meet you. Okay, so the question is, what are some ways, some strategies he's asking for, to what brings out the best ways in people's learning? Yeah, I would say This is a great example. I have one of our mentees is obsessed with Alicia Keys, loves Alicia Keys. And this is a kid who for like is so behind in reading. It's it's really bad. It's really not good. It's really not good. And all of a sudden, when we started, we printed out the lyrics because we found the thing that he loves. which is interest, music lyrics of Alicia Keys. Okay, that's an outlet. Yeah. To then utilize the outlet as a strategy.

Yeah.

To then say, why don't you read these? Let's practice reading some of these lyrics, which he already knows.

Yes.

But at the end of the day, those are words.

Yeah.

They're still words. It's not— who cares about the story? Who cares if it's a book or a piece of paper? Like, Their words. So he started to learn these words and understand the words, and and that's how he is now teaching himself how to read. He's eleven. Yeah, he's eleven. And the excitement of wanting to do that versus when all of us when we talk about a book, and I'm not a tutor. I don't teach kids how to. I don't teach them how to read. I get them to want to do it, right? So whenever we would talk about school or his homework, he would he would like like shrivel.

Yeah.

But now when it comes to looking at his, you know, when I say let's go get another lease, let's go find another song, he's excited to do it.

Yeah.

So what I would say is let's think about— let's think outside the box. It's not— it doesn't take that much energy to, okay, let's think outside the box. Let's look at what do your kids love and why. It could be soccer. If they like soccer, go find soccer books or go find something on soccer. Or you know what I used to do? I used to watch movies with, with, uh, subtitles on to get used to following along the words and hearing it. So I would start to just see the words everywhere, but I would do it in different ways. And guess what happened? It started to become more familiar.

Yeah.

I'd be like, oh, I've seen that word before. Oh, that word makes sense. Oh, okay, cool. And that's how it— that's how we get learning to be interactive but also exciting, because who wants to learn anything if you're not interested in it? I don't. I definitely don't.

Right?

So I hope that answered your question. If it didn't, just ask again in a different way, please.

I'm taking notes as I, as I listen, as I do. And I, you know, the 2 things you've said just now is thinking outside the box and get learning to be interactive. And we forget that. We forget learning's interactive.

Right. It's not just interactive, though. It's not just random interaction.

No, no, that's wrong. Yeah.

Oh, let's get us some flashcards and go back and forth.

No, that's, that's not interactive.

Right. It's getting in the student's world interactive. It's, you play Fortnite video games. Well, let's get out that instruction manual and let's understand how to play and like, let's learn different ways, but utilizing Fortnite. I don't know. Right. That's called making interactive.

The word actually is active learning.

Nice, nice.

So that you're in control, you're engaged with it, you're connecting with it, and saying, yeah, this, this means something to me.

Right.

Anyway, yeah, keep going. Um, uh, and Chris Latchell says, I'm aware that most schools have guidance counselors, which can be good for academic support, but I'm not sure how good of an outlet that is for students needing mental support. So that's a statement more than a question. Have you got anything to add to that?

I mean, I can definitely speak to that though, okay? If you want to get the best mental support for your kids, and this— mentors are not replacements for licensed medical professionals. Let me put it out there right now. That is very important. We actually partner with therapists and psychologists and teachers because that's— we are able to tap into your kids in ways that they can't. Okay, so, or they may not be able to. I don't want to generalize everybody, okay? But I will say, based off the testimonials, based off of what we're— the statistics, 81% of those who have a mentor are more likely to get enrolled— not enrolled, but get involved in extracurriculars than those who don't. That's just— those are out. That's not just Superpower Consulting, that's just out there, okay? So guidance counselors are great, but still you're dealing with teacher-student. Okay, if you want like the best person for your kids, that's finding someone who has a similar experience, who's older than them, that they can look at as almost like a big brother, big sister kind of way, right? As, oh my gosh, they went through what I've been through. I can do that. I'll tell you a great story. Um, there's, there's so many of them, but One of them was we had a student who was 21. He lost his mom and dropped out of college in the same year. Okay, severe, severe, severe LD, diagnosed depression, anxiety, you name it, he's got it. Okay. And he all this time, he thought he was stupid. He dropped out of college, right? Because he was failing. He was in the wrong place. And he lost his mom, you know, had this social emotional trauma. traumatizing life experience that no child should ever have, okay?

And means—

meanwhile, he feels like he's not capable, he's stupid, his life is worthless, and all the things, okay? And that's, that's hard. How do you expect to grow anywhere when, when all this happened?

Yeah.

So within 3 weeks of us being together, because we have a very similar experience with— in terms of just how we learn and helping him rethink his— what happened, he got back, he enrolled in a summer course, okay? Just by the conversations, all right? The other story is we had an amazing family. Um, we also believe— want to make sure that we connect our mentors diverse-wise, okay?

Yes.

Um, which is, you know, we have one of our mentors who's a Black mentor, who's a senior in college, plays NCAA basketball, dyslexic, ADHD, okay, great. mentoring a young man who's 13, who's Black, who never thought college was possible until he met his mentor. For the first time, his mom was in tears, was like, my son wants to go to college. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. That only happens though through shared emotional experiences. So for your, for your child, that's what you're talking, um, I forgot who was asking the question.

Chris.

Um, Christine?

Chris—

Christopher.

Chris, okay, so the most important way is to make sure you— whoever's gonna be working with your kids, to ask them how similar of an experience did they have with your kids in their story. Did you struggle in school? Was reading hard for you? Did you get bullied? If so, how did you get bullied? How did you deal with that? Because that's how they're going to relate to your kids. Yeah. Or just give us a call. We're happy to hook you guys up with a mentor.

But what you've just said then applies to literacy and education too. about being culturally appropriate.

Sure.

And sharing that whole— the whole feeling of who you're with. You know, we've all been there.

I've never dealt with racism. I've dealt with antisemitism. That's, you know, like— and I can't— I can't speak on behalf of racism because I never— I never— I never was— I never dealt with racism personally. Okay, I can speak about antisemitism all day. I got many stories about that. But when it comes to relatability, it's not just in the classroom. It's not just how we learn. It's, it's our surrounding. Yeah, it's our socioeconomic background. So the way we match mentors with mentees is much more than just things in common. It's, it goes much deeper than that. And that's where you have the best relationships.

Yes, yes, yes.

And you also then have this for adults, as we were talking a little bit before we started.

Yeah, yeah. So we don't have anything for— the oldest mentee we have that we're going to right now is 23. But we're going to be actually opening up parent mentors as well.

Okay.

Who would be mentoring other parents. And in your case, when it comes to mental health, what we do is we actually not just go directly to families, but we would partner with organizations, we partner with schools, We can partner with school districts, universities, and we will build the mentorship program that will take their alumni to mentor the graduates or incoming freshmen or discharged patients, okay, to then mentor them transitioning into the next phase because now they not only can relate on a mental level, but also they went through the same program.

That's huge though. And I know we're talking a lot about college and I know that there's a lot of folks who are into the trades and things like that. What are your thoughts on those folks who, like my own son, for example, he gains a lot of technical knowledge just from watching YouTube videos. He likes, like, motors and parts and things like that. And so what are your thoughts on, on some of those types of ways of learning that aren't just literacy? I mean, I know that's important, but, you know, you have to—

Yeah. We don't necessarily only focus on literacy. Like, that's not our— obviously, there's going to be a result that can help literacy because that is a challenge for many kids and young adults. But if you look at the whole picture, Yeah. it goes much deeper. I mean, I always say, especially for those who maybe not want to go to college or want to find another path or whatever, Our biggest concern and priority is less you have to go to college. It's more, is the decision you're making based off of fear or logic? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. So if you're making a decision based off of fear, if you're like, I don't want to get a job, I don't want to go to college. Okay. Why?

Yeah.

Give me a good reason.

Yeah.

Because if you can't, it's coming from fear. And let's explore that because that's a reaction. Versus a response.

Yeah.

You see what I'm saying?

So now we have to— That's a good point.

Totally changes how they look at conversation.

Yeah.

Because our kids, for like our parents who— here's a great example, okay? There's a story of this mom who brings her son to karate. Son's super excited. It's the next— it's the, it's the test for the next belt. All of his friends go, okay? He's been really— he's been practicing. Really excited. Great. Comes back in the car hysterically crying. Hysterically crying. I hate myself. I hate you. I, I like all the things. Why? He didn't pass.

Yeah.

I want to quit. This is stupid. I hate myself.

Blah, blah, blah.

The whole thing. Okay. Now the question is, does this, does this child actually hate himself? Actually hate Mom or actually wants to quit?

Yeah.

Or is this coming from a reactionary state of fear of social isolation because he's left behind than his friends? All of his friends got a chance, went up. He's now not with his friends.

Yeah.

So you're hearing a reaction from fear of social isolation versus someone who actually hates himself, of which someone says, I hate myself, that's when you get concerned. But in this case Does he actually?

Yeah.

Okay, so a lot of times parents will just hear what their kids say and take it seriously, take it literally, but in reality, what are they actually saying? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

That's brilliant to me. That's brilliant. To look behind, again, looking behind the behaviours and asking the questions.

Well, and sometimes these kids and adults have some trouble with communication communicating their feelings. So you have to, you do have to look behind what's driving those statements and see, like, do they actually, what are they afraid of? Or do they actually really hate themselves? And I think in some cases they may feel that way because of the struggles that they go through, but we have to be better at deciphering that. That's a good point.

Right. And the best way to understand that is to look at, is to reflect on what causes me to react versus What causes me to respond versus react?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's great.

I also have a comment about what you said about, um, I know we're focusing a lot on college, but, um, there was a fellow that I was speaking to who was, um, trying to get his, I guess it's a master's plumbing something or other. They have to take some sort of a test. And whereas he was so great, um, technically with the plumbing, he was struggling with this test. Now, here's a fellow who is, you know, older, who didn't realize the type of learner that he was, and by that I mean dyslexic, and he was really stressing over this test. So it would be so important for someone like that to understand that, hey, yeah, you can do these things. You need some support. But I guess that's my question. What do we do for these forgotten adults? You've got the forgotten child, and we focus a lot on them, but what about these—

Adults.

Excuse me, forgotten adults that struggle with these things, and they don't understand why, and they're afraid to get to that next point. I mean, this guy could get this test and then be a fantastic plumber that gets paid well, but a lot of these people are underemployed or unemployed because of maybe, like you said, the fear.

Right. And, and the only way that is able to reflect on— because look, we— I talked to a lot of dads Um, and a lot of parents that are parenting from a reactionary state because the way their kids are now reminds them of a traumatizing experience they had when they were kids. Okay, so now they're parenting off of fear.

Yeah.

And I'm 25, I'm not a parent yet, you know. But, and that's why we're gonna bring on Parametrix, because I can talk all day on behalf of your kids, but I am not a parent yet. But what I have seen Okay. And just human behavior, especially with dads who have a hard time with dealing with their emotion because they want to be strong, not weak, is that asking for help is a sign of weakness.

Yeah.

Okay. But what we want to help people understand is that there's this idea of working smarter, not harder. You're actually not weak. Okay. No successful person was able to become successful just by themselves.

Yeah.

Okay. And it's okay to ask for help. But the only way that's possible is to open up a safe conversation that can be explored to what actually happened in your past. Why? Where did the fear come from first? To then be able to say, okay, you're triggered right now because you were bullied in school by your teachers and the feeling you have taking an exam is still present today.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

So let's, let's uncover that together.

Yeah.

Right. So I would say, look, it's the same types of conversations. It's just you're dealing with someone who's an adult who has a lot more, uh, baggage, you know, a lot more experiences that, you know, when you're— the older you get, the harder it is to learn something You, you know, so that's where you have more of like those real conversations saying, look, I know what you're telling yourself, but that's only holding you back.

Yeah.

Right. When are we gonna move forward? When are we gonna finally say I'm not depressed anymore?

Right.

When are we gonna finally say I'm no longer— I don't have anxiety? Like what? Like why? When are we gonna stop blaming everything that we have on ourselves to prevent us from finally taking the scary step forward? It's horrifying because you don't know what's out there.

Right, right.

Yeah, and it's a challenge to, um, to put that behind you and say, I can. It's easier to fall back on I can't, what you know.

It's so much easier. It's so much easier.

Yeah, but that still comes down to people not understanding what they went through.

Yes.

In school.

Yes.

So I think we're starting to change the schools, and we will. I mean, this has been going on for decades, but I think we're finally starting to get— make some progress, you know. But again, there's so many people that have slipped through the cracks, and, you know, they, they have no idea why they struggled. And those are the people that I deal with. That's why I'm always trying to find help for those individuals while also helping the school systems?

I always look to try to find what gets them excited. It doesn't even— like, it doesn't matter what life point they're at, because I talk to parents on this all the time that are in bad places, right? Yeah. At one point, what was the thing in your life that got you really excited? Is it fashion? And maybe you're now in, in real— in, like, in finance. Okay, why did you make that change?

Yeah, yeah.

And and exploring that because look, I have no memory of my middle school and elementary school years up until now when I was working with the younger version of Jake every day. Yeah. So I healed myself. So these parents and adults that slipped through the cracks, okay, I at what point can we can they stop telling themselves I slipped through the cracks? Because this is the chance for them to have this awareness saying, okay, I'm now I'm not in a good place. I know this is not easy. This is much easier said than done. But the outlets are so key because I was talking to this one parent who was she was in accounting, and then we started talking about her passion for being working on working with horses, and she just got a job being an accountant at a horse farm. Oh my God! And now everything's you see what I'm saying? I'm just saying, these are things if we can finally open our eyes.

Yeah.

And get in, get in their world, it, the answer's right in front of us. Yeah, it's right there. Yeah, right there. And I, I really want to talk to you, Lisa, uh, after, after this.

Um, absolutely.

Yeah, on this one.

Yeah, I have a lot of questions and a lot of ideas, uh, for some of this. I also want to say too, I think it's a brilliant idea that you're working, you have mentors for parents, because as a parent This has been traumatizing for me, so much so that when I see an email from the school, my heart rate goes up, my blood pressure elevates, and I don't even want to open it because it's traumatic. And I think that's really key for the whole family.

Yeah.

This is a whole family issue. And I think that's— I didn't even think of that, to have mentors for parents.

It's relatability is the golden— it's this, it's this, it's the sauce right there. That's, that's it. That's it. And that's— we're on this mission. We're on this mission and we're not stopping anytime soon because there are so many kids and young adults out there and parents who need someone that's been in their shoes so they don't feel alone. And sometimes that's all you need.

Yes.

Sometimes it's all you need.

Yep.

That's, that's certainly a huge start to know that we're not alone, because that was my feeling when my son was 6 or 7. Yeah, is, is the absolute isolation you feel.

Yeah.

So yeah, yeah.

Well, it's time's up. We've talked for about 50 minutes on this, Jake. There's so much there to unpack.

So there's almost— there's too much. But you know what, I'll I'll say though, and I want to thank you both for what you're doing because we need more people like you that's out there and having a voice and allowing others to have their voice. And others are listening. Whoever's watching this, thank you for watching because all of us as a collective, the only way we can bring change is through movement, not just through 1 or 2 or 3 people.

Yep. Right.

Doing isolated things. So Thank you both for this opportunity, seriously.

Thank you for joining us, Jake, even though it's on Valentine's Day. And I'll start talking about next week where we're talking to Callan Jennings from New Zealand, whose life as a dyslexic and undiagnosed dyslexic has been very interesting, and how he has the loss, the addiction, and how he's living today, and what he's also doing, which is What— it's kind of what we're doing, sharing that we must accept children and teach them to read. Thank you, Jake. Thank you for joining us. Have a fantastic day and stay in touch.

Yes, Valentine's Day.

Read the book. Grab a copy. Read it. I'm still—

I gotta bring you guys on my show. We'll do a little swap-a-roo.

Love it.

I don't have any books. So sorry, I'm not very interesting.

Oh my gosh, don't even go there.

We just got a passion for, for changing, not having our children, others' children go through what we went through.

Yeah.

You know, that's it. So thank you very much.

Yeah, thank you.

And we'll talk again soon. Thank you.

Let's do it. Bye, everybody.

Thank you. Bye. Oh, incredible. Thank you, Lisa. Have I stopped, Isaac?