Are Peptides Foundational or Optional?

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Welcome, Synergy listeners. On this episode of the Synergy Podcast, we are diving into one of the most exciting frontiers in functional and regenerative medicine. Peptides. Joining us today is Michael Antonelli, founder of healthgevity, a cutting edge health optimization company specializing in longevity, hormone optimization, regenerative therapies, and of course, peptides. With a mission to help individuals unlock their full healing and performance potential, Micha blends clinical expertise with the latest science to support patients with customized protocols for energy resilience, metabolism, sexual health, and more. If you've heard the word peptides, but you aren't quite sure how they work or how they differ from other therapies, this episode is your deep dive. So lean in, get your favorite writing utensil, and take some really good notes. We are so excited that you joined us today.

This is not necessarily a new topic, but it's kind of a hot topic right now. And I've had lots of people calling into the clinic asking the question, do you guys do peptides? And when my team first came to me with that question, I'm like, silly girls, we've been doing peptides for a long time. Glutathione is a peptide, Insulin's a peptide. Like, what is, you know? But peptides, we're going to dig into what they are, what they do to the body, how our body naturally makes peptides, how we can use peptides as a tool to improve vitality. And so we're super glad that you're here today for this conversation.

So, Michael, we got to start with the story, right? The story behind the story. Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to be here with us today. So tell us, how did you land in this peptide space? Did it all start here or did it start in healthcare? Where did it start?

Great place to start. And thank you for having me on today. It's truly a pleasure to be here and to be able to impact your community. But the journey started about two decades ago in the nutraceutical world and started with the company Metagenics and rubbing elbows and learning from people like Jeffrey Bland and Mark Hyman. And at that point, really saw what the power of natural therapy can be or should be, especially when you layer in eating right, moving right, thinking right. And I was like, okay, I'm all in. What do I do from here? And you just start networking and learning and educating. And you almost get angry at the same time because you're like, well, what do you mean? A doctor's visit is supposed to be more Than five minutes. Or wait, why didn't I just leave with five prescriptions? I'm leaving with natural opportunities. I got a dex or an inbody scan or a blood chemistry that revolved around more than a CBC and a cmp. So at that point, I knew that I wanted to end up starting my own company to help more people. And over the last 20 years, I had different leadership positions with a variety of nutraceutical companies. And also I dabbled in the bioidentical hormone world. That, at that point, is where I was seeing firsthand the power of peptides. So when your hormones are optimized, when you're utilizing things like peptides and the right nutraceuticals, I saw transformations right before me. And then Covid hit, and like so many of us, took that time to really reflect on, where do I want to go from here? What do I want my legacy to be? Do I want to keep working for these big companies, collecting a nice paycheck, or do I want to really disrupt what's happening? At that point, I had developed some really good contacts all over the world with different unique bioactives and ingredients and emerging technologies where I could easily start shifting the conversation around health span optimization and harnessing the hallmarks of aging through the very best of the very best. And that's where I saw the opportunity of peptides, because at that point, the FDA was starting to get their hands on the 503A and B compounded versions. Where I saw an opportunity open up was, wait, there are peptides that can be done orally? Not all of them, but there are some. And at that point, I started seeing, on the R and D side, companies that were already creating these research centers where they were identifying peptides naturally occurring in nature and ramping up human clinical studies. So all the knocks on peptides before that were, you can't do them orally, and there's no human data. Very quickly, I was able to disrupt that, but also blend peptide therapy with classical conventional nutraceutical therapy under one brand. And so that's where healthgevity was born, where we started shifting and started not talking about lifespan so much, but about health span and things that we could be doing and incorporating every day that can make tremendous differences in our quality of life, how we're feeling and how well we're aging.

And I love that you talked about how we think, how we move our body, what we're feeding ourselves matters. And I see peptides kind of as the cherry on the top, right? And we're doing all these things to make things work better. So for our audience, let's back up and talk about what is a peptide.

Great place to start. And peptides are small strings of amino acids. So you have amino acids, peptides, and then proteins. So peptides are chains of amino acids ranging from two to around 40amino acid chains. There are some peptides that are more up to 50. But in our sweet spot, especially on the oral side, we like to go for smaller chains. But peptides are there to help communicate, fix some of the wiring within our body, similar to what power lines are doing in our neighborhoods. Right where you'll see we'll lose power. But only a block's affected or a town's affected, not usually the whole state. Peptides are there to actually fix that cell to cell communication. So you hit on it earlier. Insulin, glutathione, these are peptides. You might have also heard about the GLP1s. These are also peptides. So there's so many different things happening from injection to oral to topical, that the listeners are starting to be like they're perking up. They're okay, what's going on here? Why aren't I on a peptide? And they're coming to you saying, what do I need? Tell me, guide me. But it's a tremendous time in healthcare with the power of peptides to elevate a variety of protocols.

And there's a complete amount of, I would say, misunderstanding or miseducation. So hence the reason why we do things like this is because it is so important for them to understand not only what it is, is it's the uniqueness of the individuality of each of them. And I know we'll get there. But also what your company does in combining these peptides with nutraceuticals as well, nutritional support inside and the nice synergy and the blends of them too. So I love how you explain that. I think they're getting a bad rap in some respects for those people that are. There's this polarization that's happened, particularly in the area of GLP1s, right? They're either good, bad, or they're bad. And I think what we're here to dispel today and maybe demystify in some ways and talk about more and encourage, is that they're not good or bad. It is, again, unique for the person to specifically repair and heal. So let's go to the regenerative piece of that. So how do peptides actually repair? How do they work?

Yeah, great question. Because when we think about some of the peptides that are more well known, specifically some of the thymic peptides in BPC157 that are known for their regenerative and repair mechanisms. What peptides are doing, again, getting back to that analogy of the wires, right in our neighborhood, when communication is impaired, so is our ability to heal and repair more efficiently. So I always like to say when we're younger and we get that paper cut, we're able to bounce right back. But we think about that older person that gets the paper cut and they're bleeding longer, they're bruising longer, their healing is longer. That's what's happening because signaling is impaired and what our body's naturally producing to facilitate resolution is impaired. So peptides are going back in and fixing the communication, fixing the message to allow the body to naturally thrive on its own or back when we were in our prime. And this is why when you start looking at where the regeneration properties were shining, it was bodybuilders, it was athletes who were looking for that edge, were willing to take more risk. When it's more animal studies versus human studies and we saw that population be enhanced, be changed, and these are people that are already on so much. I always like to say when you're already a high supplement user, you're doing a lot of things both, some approved, some not approved. But you could take and pinpoint that one thing made a difference. And you're seeing a lot of peptides be used for that reason. When we could heal more efficiently, we're healthier, we stay on the field better, we're regenerating in between workouts. That allows our foundation, our structure to be in a better position to bounce back or get more reps or whether it's pre surgery or it's the bone fracture, there's so many instances that the utilization of these peptides are enhancing the healing process dramatically.

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So let's talk about the person that's having challenges recovering, like recovering from exercise. So they exercise and for three days they're just super, super sore. They can't make it work or they injure themselves. Every time they start working out, they get into a good routine, then they're injured, and then they can't exercise because they're injured. What? Peptides are typically used in a situation like that to promote the ability to exercise and recover.

Yeah. So the ones that are going to come up a lot, whether in literature or listening to a podcast like this, or going to Reddit, or going to a healthcare provider, BPC157 is going to be one that comes up a lot. And the Thymosin Beta 4 or TB500, these are going to be ones that continually come up for its ability to be making a dramatic difference. The nice thing is some of these are injected. Some of these could be done orally. So you have an option depending on what your comfort is or what the availability is. I think the biggest X factor that you hit on before is that there's the good and there's the bad. But what we do know as a consistent is that when you're under the right supervision and care of the right provider, that's where we see the most efficient outcomes, regardless of all the noise outside of this.

Yeah. Would you agree that working on the foundation that we talked about earlier is a big part of that picture? Like without the foundation, peptides don't do a whole lot. Right. Or they may cause miscommunication within the body.

That's right. Or they're not going to be as impactful as they could be. So absolutely, all this needs to happen. This isn't going to be a magic bullet. But what We've seen in bigger protocols that this can be the X factor, the icing on the cake. And that's where we see patients that might have hit that plateau or have seen several other providers end up in front of you. And then you've got them results that no one else has. I'm sure this is probably just a daily occurrence with both of your offices. Peptides are certainly part of that toolbox for that efficient outcome.

Yeah. So Kelly and I had the unique opportunity years ago to embark on the formal education around peptides years ago with anti aging and restorative medicine, which we're so thankful for, that education. And that's what we really try to help other providers understand is how important it is to be educated. But in that we got so excited walking out of our module of like, yes, we can initiate some of these. And literally the next day after the class, there were no more peptides. Right. It was like this mass shutdown. So I just wanted to take a few minutes and talk about what has happened over the last few years in this area of peptides and is that still going on and how is that impacting us now?

Yeah. And I'm no expert on the 503A or B Pharmacy World, but I'll speak on how I'm interpreting it and we'll see how that goes. But during that time before that, peptides or many peptides were in this gray area. The 503 as and Bs have outlined substances that they have the ability to compound. And many of these peptides were not on either list. But it was a gray area. Right. Where were they falling? Where were they categorizing? So pharmacies, especially the ones that were disruptive and innovative. Right. They were going about formulating this. And even years before this, the leading peptide pharmacy got hit from the FDA because they were doing a lot of this. But it was really them being isolated. It wasn't a trickle down effect to other pharmacies. So they continued to compound. Then around that time, you were at that training and they put their foot down and said, here's a list of peptides that don't have the safety data we'd like them to have. So we're saying they're not safe until proven otherwise. And with that resolution or outcome, 503 as now had a stance, right? Do they keep pushing the needle or do they stop fulfilling these prescriptions? And that left a lot of providers on the front line, like, what do we do? Where do we go from here? This also had this trickle Effect because many of those peptides on that list had to be injected in order to be utilized and bioavailable. That was the unfortunate part. But with that opened up this door of which peptides can we deliver orally and classify as supplements? And so that's where you're seeing this shift of things like BPC157 also the discovery and utilization of peptide fragments like the thymosin beta 4 fragment or even bioregulators. Right, the two to three amino acid chains. All these things started happening. And then in the background where these research companies who we're partnering with that are utilizing artificial intelligence in other lab settings where they're identifying peptides naturally occurring and going through the steps to certify as grass or generally regarded as safe, get the human data that some of these organizations are seeking. And so we've been kind of tapping into the best of all these options, but under one brand, identifying peptides that can be delivered orally and safe and identifying the doses that they're recommended at. While this was all happening, a lot of the 503A compounding pharmacies were coming together, raising money, lobbying against what the FDA was saying. And since then some of these peptides have been overturned and now approved or back to be utilized with some clearer guidance and guidelines. So again, we haven't even talked about the black market and research only compounds and chemicals and peptides. But what we do know is that there are a handful of 503A pharmacies doing the right thing with very high quality standards that are offering peptides through practitioners like you. Then there's companies like me that for those that don't want to inject or like what they're seeing about the oral utilization of certain peptides, we're in the mix as well.

So you mentioned Michael, the bioregulators. So what is the difference between a peptide and a bioregulator? Because that's a relatively new term even for me.

Yeah, there's a lot out of Russia. These bioregulators are usually two to three amino acids. A lot of these are occurring in glandulars. They were researched. Actually Professor Kavestein is the main research behind a lot of these bioregulators. And you're starting to see these European companies bring in product here. Like Nature Marvels for example, is one of the main bioregulator companies. They're their more wide ranging and its modulation in the body. So where peptides are going to be more pinpointed in what we think it's doing or what it should be doing. The bioregulators are more generalized. So like a thyroid bioregulator or vascular or for eyes. Right. It's more condition or organ specific. So you're having this as another tool in that toolbox. And there's some companies that are combining bioregulators with peptides or putting bioregulators into bigger supplements. So you're going to start seeing that become more and more popular, although similar shortcomings to some of these peptides. A lot of animal data, not a lot of human data yet. And that may change, it may not. So you have to really, I think just think about what's important for you and where you're at in your healing journey.

So with that being said, are there certain disclaimers that are needing to be on certain bottles? Like what is the speak around that? Like are they having our companies like yourself having to put that out there, that, that there is only, you know, not enough human research right now, but only research with animals?

Yeah. Well, I think it's up to the company to share what they want to disclose because with our brand, for example, we're only going through healthcare practitioners. So there's already that buffer, that layer where practitioners are doing a workup, an advanced assessment to identify what you should be on, how long, how to dose it. And so what we do is we invest in practitioner education and that peer to peer community mentorship environment so we can talk about best practices. We could talk about this fast changing research world and more importantly, how does it translate into real world outcomes? We're trying to do our part, but it takes a whole ecosphere and environment because we're just one piece of it. But yeah, I guess you're right. There's a lot out there and there's a lot of options. So we made a decision very early on that we wanted to go through practitioners to be the ones to say here's what you need and why.

And I have to say we really appreciate that too. That is a hard stance for companies because we do know from a profitability standpoint that a lot of companies have chosen to go direct to consumer because it does leverage the finances a little bit better. But we are thankful because we do know that these are being used as a part or should be used as a part of a comprehensive plan moving the needle towards that health and used, you know, and monitored and regulated. And in many cases, you know, yes, some of them could be used long term, but I would imagine that just like certain foods are used to heal and walk through different seasons of life, there are certain peptides that will be used in the same way. So it's not a forever thing?

No. I always say that we don't look at any of our therapies or solutions as new multivitamins in your journey. These are short term heavy hammers that you may only need for 30 to 90 days to reassess. And you could pulse these in and out. But really our bodies are so unique. One thing for me may not work for you. So it's really just providing what we feel is these huge formulas dosed correctly that you can consider at different points of your healing.

So Lori and I really like to focus on hormone balancing, blood sugar balancing, sex hormone balancing, thyroid hormone balancing. How are peptides different than hormones when it comes to helping create that balance? And is there a place?

Yeah, I don't think it's a replacement. I will tell you, if you have inadequate hormone levels, it's almost like trying to work something that requires batteries, but the batteries are dead. I mean, you can hit that remote as many times as you want, it may not work. Maybe you'll get the ability for one channel to be changed, but everything is in harmony. And so again, we're not a magic bullet. But you want to make sure your hormones are where they need to be. Right bioidentical hormones and doing the right testing. We want to make sure that you're eating the right foods. I get these low grades food sensitivities. You keep creating this inflammatory response. But peptides are there and when used correctly are a game changer to me, it's our unfair advantage. But when you have the right nutrients, you're taking the right vitamins. And this is what's so beautiful about the practices you've built. Because it's not one size fits all. And what your goals are, what your body needs today may look very different 90 days from now or a year from now. And so we got to keep fine tuning and making sure that everything is working and being used that your body needs at that point. So you're right. I think it's right place, right time, right solution.

Yeah. And I want to go back to something that you said very early. I truly believe too, and I've been saying it a lot as the patients have been coming in, my clients have been coming in over the past several months is, I think this is a really incredible time to be in functional medicine. I do the tools that are in our toolbox now that we haven't had. It's also a very difficult Time to be in it. Because the amount of education and knowledge that it takes to practice safely and to do no harm is a lot. It's heavy. But I'm so grateful for companies like you, all that do invest in our education and our knowledge because you speed up our ability to learn. I have had the opportunity to try a few things and I know we'll probably get there, but I just want to say the brain boost for me has been a game changer intermittently. That alpha gpc, I don't know what the combinations are, but I want to know where that particular formula originated from and kind of what, what was the, what's the backstory to that? Because I think it's incredible.

Well, thank you for that. And all of our formulas have that formulation journey. And this is a, this one's important too because we serve the listeners, your patients, right? That's who we represent. And when you look at the data or even you just look at your patient flow today, how many people are complaining about fatigue, whether it's not waking up refreshed, crashing in the afternoon, this brain fog that doesn't seem to go away, the inability to focus or be motivated. If you don't have all those fine tuned again, kind of like the hormone part, everything else we do is not going to be as impactful. So getting this formula right was so important. So when we pulled the doctors that we trust and utilize what they're using and we're seeing what patients are turning to, how many patients are drinking coffee all day, the energy shots, the energy drinks. And we look at the data, around 60% or more of us are slower, fast metabolizers. And so we keep turning to caffeine. And some people, if they know they drink caffeine based beverage past 10am they're up all night. Others they're drinking it all day, but they're metabolizing it so fast they're getting no real benefit. Then you layer in this other group of patients that genetically don't do well with caffeine. So we were one of the first companies globally to launch through our research collaborations an ingredient called paraxanthine. And paraxanthine is the main metabolite that caffeine converts into in the body. But by delivering the downstream form, you're bypassing or biohacking all the conversion issues. So you literally have pure energy the way the body needs it. And it only lasts three to three and a half hours with no jitters, no crash and no tolerance buildup. So that was the backbone of Brain Boost, Alpha GPC organics, lion's mane, N acetyl, thyrosine and low dosal theanine are also in here to balance the brain waves, to give us the alertness, to give us this boost. But without feeling like we're shaking, you literally get the work done or get the task done, you look back like, wow, I got a lot more done today. What was that? Must been the Brain boost. You can also do this as a pre workout. So we think about how many patients are falling short of their goals because they're just not willing to move, to walk, to get to the gym. They won't leave the couch. So motivation is such an important part. What we've noticed is that through this formula, it sets the tone for positive change, which then sets in all the other things in the protocol to be more efficient and utilized. So Brain Boost is a really important place for many to start because of those wide ranging things. When we can rewire the brain, good things will come. And that's what you're getting with Brain Boost. And it works on the first dose. This isn't one of those things where take this for a month and let me know how you feel. We also made sure we were very conscious of doing a two capsule dose because there's a group that responds so favorably at just one capsule, or there may be days where you had a rough night, you need a little extra help, you can go to 2 caps. We wanted to give you that dosing flexibility. So regardless of the day that you're ready to tackle, you have options.

So, Michael, when I hear you say that, I get curious about the downstream effect to the adrenal gland. I treat so many people coming into me on Adderall, Ritalin, all of the stimulants because they hit a stage in their life where they couldn't focus anymore and that's all they knew to do. And so they went and got on a stimulant. And then we see them a year, two, maybe three years later, and they completely crashed out their adrenals because they not only didn't pay attention to why they were having the fatigue, but they overmedicated and kept driving and it crashed them completely out. Is there any risk of that happening with this formula?

Not that we've seen. And I'll give you one study again, because I'm not a doctor, I'm not on the front line like you, either of you. But a patient emailed us directly and this was a powerful email. Again, this is what gets me out of bed. Every day. Right. Hearing this. But they were on Adderall since 2008, and they developed an autoimmune disorder. And they're seeing one of the largest functional medicine doctors probably in the world. That's practice. I'm not gonna name the practice. And so this is a PAT. So 2008, Adderall usage developed autoimmune disorder and a prescription that they had to take. They could no longer be on Adderall, and they were going crazy. They were scared. They didn't know what they were going to do without Adderall. Cold turkey. They switched to brain boost and they didn't miss a beat. And they felt so compelled to email the company because they feel like we saved them. And I can't say that's going to be experience that everyone's going to have, but we're all about giving confidence and sharing those stories that there are natural options that hopefully should be utilized as a first line of therapy. But if you already were utilizing prescription options for whatever reason, that you do have something like brain boost or other things within our portfolio that you could, under the right supervision, maybe titrate off and then hopefully eventually utilize.

Yeah. While working on the repair. And we talk about that all the time. There are so many things that we use in the short term while working on what created the dysfunction. Right. And then simultaneously and over time, we can titrate things back out again. So I do see that as an opportunity to really work with our clients that come to us on meds for add, adhd, and. Or those that really are having inattentiveness and poor focus. I had a very interesting story this week in a lady who came to me and I said, just listen, give it a shot. She was heading. Heading out to a conference, real estate conference specifically, and she wanted to be at the top of her game. And I said, just, you know, give it a try. She came back from Chicago after her weekend, and she was in a group class, and she goes, I just have to tell you, like, I had the best weekend. She goes, and look at my handwriting. So her handwriting actually improved in clarity, like, so there was a profound impact in not only how she felt and energy, but also in her stability and her. What translates to handwriting a lot. We see that a lot. So. Yep. Another story for your. For your. For your book, Michael.

Well, thank you for that. Amazing. This is what gives us purpose, and this is why I started the company.

And I do like going back to something that you guys did. And I know we heard, we said it earlier, is the combination of things. And you just said it. It's not just a single peptide. You do have a single peptide. You guys do have that much like others, you know, bpc, kpv, pea, those types of things. But you also have formulas that do blend and create for no better term, because that's why we use the word synergy in what we do. But the synergy, the synergistic effects of those. So I think it's pretty profound what you guys have done with that.

Well, a lot of these areas that we're tackling are major areas and it's not going to take a single bullet to knock down. It's going to take several well researched embedded ingredients coming together to provide value, to modulate multiple pathways. And that's kind of our sweet spot, how we're formulating, how we're translating the research. It's to attack it at multiple angles to get the outcome that you and your patient are seeking.

So which peptides do you consider to be foundational for longevity and vitality? Because you know, we hear it all the time. I'm looking for longevity because that's the buzzword right now, or vitality, to live with energy and live to the fullest. So what are you seeing in that? In the peptide world?

For those.

That is a big question. How much time do we have?

But I'll so maybe one or two.

Throw some out there. What I think is really important because you know, we talked about some of the things like BPC and kpv, those are like more shorter term heavy lifting, you know, facilitate some of the healing and then move on. One peptide, or actually I say a couple peptides that I think are long term foundational, are going to be addressing the skeletal muscle and bone density. And that's where I think we think about things. On the natural discovery side, an ingredient comes to mind. Peptistrong Pepti Strong through our collaboration with Noritas, this is the AI finder, they've cataloged over 9 million peptides. We launched Pepti Strong very early on. We were first in the US with it. It now has three human clinical studies published. But Pepti Strong is there to activate muscle protein synthesis, modulate fast and slow twitch muscle fibers. It's going to help reduce inflammation induced by exercise, also improve bone density, improve strength, performance and recovery. Who doesn't want that? And then we're looking at novel ways to deliver oldie but goodies. Leucine is an ingredient that is tr. And true. We have a lot of data on it and through other research collaborations there's dipeptides occurring in leucine. So we were one of the first companies to also launch dilucine as a way head to head. It outperforms leucine. You don't need as high of a dose, it's better absorbed, it lasts longer. And we have it also in combination with the Pepti Strong as a dual peptide matrix. I think these are so important. And we've had. What's really unique about these peptides is that we've had younger patients, both male and female, write to us providers, but even older patients. And so we're seeing the flexibility of these peptides to modulate regardless of where we're at in our age trajectory. And that's what's exciting, is that we're not in a corner with just one demographic. These are wide ranging. And again, both of these are being used in different synergies. We have it as a powder, we have it as a capsule. Depending on, do you have pill fatigue that day? Do you rather make a big shaken smoothie with everything in it? But the foundation of our bones and muscle is so critical. And that's why we called even one of our anabolic peptides Longevity, because we wanted to help that conversation on a provider patient level on the role of muscle mass as being one of the main predictors of how well or how poor we're aging.

Yeah. Our listeners get to hear us oftentimes talk about how important muscle mass is for longevity. You know, we say it's money in the bank, metabolically speaking. So, Michael, share with our audience a little bit more about leucine. Why is leucine so important as an amino acid to help support that muscle development and maintenance over time, the main building block.

Right. So we think about these amino acids or peptides, think of them as Legos. And you'll have, you know, small Legos that you get the little pack. Right. Those are the bioregulators. But the more Legos you have, you build these elaborate designs and that's what you're getting is leucine is the glue for muscle development. But not only that, what I see leucine in the data, it's not only great for age related muscle decline, we even see it with athletes and weakened warriors, or to immune related muscle decline or even prescription related muscle issues. Right. We think about statins or potentially GLP1s not under the right supervision. Leucine is one of those essential amino acids that are critical. That's why you see even some protein powders that that will advertiser Fortifying with even more leucine, because it's the one that's going to do a lot of the heavy lifting. And so what a lot of researchers are doing now is looking for ways, well, how can we improve the absorption? Or is there better forms of things? We already have a lot of confidence in. And that's what we're doing behind the scenes globally as a way to. In the longevity world, there's new things happening all the time. Right. But is there ways to streamline the outcome and improve patient compliance and convenience? And again, it's hard to have a protocol not thrive without sufficient leucine levels.

So specifically around mitochondria and energy going back to that person who is wanting to feel good and get the most out of their workout. Are there specific peptides that you have seen really rising stars in respect to the mitochondria?

So mitochondrial peptides, not so much in our wheelhouse on the oral side, but on the injectable side, you'll see things like MOT C and SS31. Those are going to be two that are being taught on a CME level. Right. About its role for mitochondria. There's some other rising stars that I still want to see a little bit more data come out. But again, oral peptides, we can't do everything. And that's some of the shortcomings. But luckily at both of your practices, you have the ability to source the very best of all of these approaches.

That's a beautiful thing. It's still on this quest always of a lot of questions, a lot of digging in to the pharmacies, education and just, you know, their modes of practice, what are they doing? Are there, and I'm just curious, are there areas or conferences that you guys go to that are creating a standard of care where you guys are being educated as well? Like, do you guys have a group that you can, that you meet with?

Yeah. So in terms of the provider groups, we're aligned with a few of them. So you were talking about a 4M and the international Peptide Society, that's now headed up by Jim Laval. Right. That's one of them. Then you have the ammg, the Age Management group, and within their peptide, the Clinical Peptide Society, which is headed up by Dr. Edwin Lee and Luis Martinez, were also sponsor of that group. They do also continued education. And then there's the SSRP with Dr. William Seeds. We're a trusted partner with that group. And they put on the clinical, they put on the Peptide World Congress and they have their own Peptide Certification. So those are probably the three buckets that we support and align with. But it's more than just being a trusted partner. We want to be in the room that the providers are in so we see what they're learning, how they're learning, but more importantly, the questions that are coming up, we need to keep our pulse on all of this, whether it directly affects our portfolio. We need to see everything you're hearing and listening to so we can bring the most value to the practices that we support.

And are these products third party tested? And are they, you know, are the rigorous standards of CG, CGMP and some of those things being upheld to 2? Is that a requirement or is that a choice?

So that is a requirement. You just hope that every company you're supporting is doing it right. A lot of people are throwing out cgmps and putting it on the package because it looks good, but what does it really mean? Right. It means that every ingredient needs to be vetted as a raw material when it comes into the manufacturing plant and it's quarantined until it's approved and confirmed for identity and potency and making sure it doesn't have the heavy metals and things like that. Then we want to test several times, right. As a finished product, we want to make sure potency is there, identity is there, and then the expiration date, manufacture date, all that's set. And then there's some optional things like third party testing. Right. Having a third party lab confirm the identity in addition to the labs you're using currently. And so we're identifying this network even on a peptide side, tapping into pharmaceutical labs that have the methodology and certifications to analyze peptides. And, and so we're looking and utilizing all of these approaches for our products. And that's the level that providers are holding us to. And you know, with peptides being such a gray area, there's like the research only what are you really getting? We need to raise the bar and show what we're doing and hoping that other people, other company, other options are doing the same.

So Michael, you mentioned the use of AI and how you're using AI to target what's up next. Right. So tell us a little bit more about how that works.

You know, AI is here whether we like it or not. And so especially on the research side, AI is particularly effective for facilitating direction on where you're spending the funds to research. Right. Clinical studies are expensive. So for example, several of our research partners are utilizing AI. We talked about one group that's doing Peptide discovery, where they've cataloged and indexed over 9 million peptides, and they brought multiple peptides to market with multiple human studies. We have another partner that's utilizing AI to map, using proteomics, breast milk and proteins occurring in breast milk. And then they're able to extract which proteins are responsible for the most therapeutic actions that's intended. So we've launched a few biofunctional proteins utilizing the proteomics and AI of breastmilk mimetics. We're also able to leverage AI and CRISPR and fermentation to do bioidentical or human equivalent protein production. We were the first globally to launch the first ever bioidentical lactoferrin through that CRISPR fermentation technology. And so those are just some examples of how we're able to look at ingredient selection or these unique bioactives that we can scale up megadose and see what it will do in the body. And so it kind of takes a lot of the guesswork out, but we're not just reliant because at the end of the day, it's how do these finished formulas translate into your protocols and your patient outcomes?

Yeah. So you have me thinking about, of course, bpc. I would think that would be a good contender, kpv. But what other peptides do we have in our arsenal for targeting inflammation? Because as we know, that's really what's driving a lot of our metabolic dysfunction and chronic disease states. So as I'm thinking about, obviously we approach that from a very broad lifestyle perspective in how we're moving our body, what we're choosing to eat, how we're sleeping, managing our stress. All of those things are hugely important. But are there other specific peptides that help in that conversation?

Yeah. So BPC and Capavir are going to be ones that you're going to hear a lot about. Not a peptide, but we use it to also anchor this, which is pea, as a lipid resolving mediator. And there's been a lot of discussion around SPMs, PRMs, these lipid resolving mediators. And I was in a position over a decade ago to be one of the first companies or the first company to launch SPMs. And I actually went to the lab in Harvard with Dr. David Sinclair to even study about these resolvins and things like that. And so SPMs, like the unresolved inflammation, that's gonna be a big story. But pea, not a peptide, but very useful in helping the body bring healthier levels or help the body more efficiently respond on the inflammation side, those are gonna be the ones that come up a lot, right? There's different levels, different degrees of inflammation. Right. The immune system inflammation connection, you're gonna have Things like Thymosin alpha 1 on the injectable side, Thymosin beta 4 on the injection side. That could also play a significant role. We have the fragments on our side that probably aren't as good for the repair mechanisms as the injectable. But for more of the immune resilience, we see that be more beneficial. There's ACE inhibiting peptides for blood flow to help the body better respond. We have that in a formula, actually in several formulas that we're using. We already talked about the muscle peptides, which also impact to a certain degree, inflammation and the immune response. Where we're also seeing is the biofunctional protein, so not so much a peptide, but we're utilizing the breast milk memetics to also modulate the inflammatory response as well. So all these are in the arsenal with a lot of the oldies but goodies, right? The curcumin, the perilla seed, quercetin, Boswellia, acmella, astragalus, all the usual suspects. We create this wide matrix because inflammation is tricky, inflammation is silent. We want to make sure that we're addressing it through multiple pathways rather than the prescription side, which is, let's just shut the lights off, inhibit block, and we'll see what happens.

So many exciting things to come. I feel like this will be an ongoing conversation in the world of peptides and what's to come next, because this is, as you said, how many peptides have y' all isolated? 9,000 peptides. So when you said that number, I'm like, okay, let's buckle up.

What was it again? Say that number again.

9 million. Over 9 million isolated in nature. We look at, and this is a funny analogy, but there's some people that peel the apple and they lose the skin. They've identified countless amount of peptides within that skin. And so food is our medicine. And it's unfortunate that the way we cook or the way we're farming, we're losing a lot of those natural occurring bioactive peptides. And through a lot of the innovation that's advancing now, we're able to mega dose things that are occurring fractional in our foods. And we're seeing amazing outcomes through peptide discovery. So we're just warming up. It's not just a healthevity initiative. There's so much happening globally. You're right.

Right.

This is the time. So if you're listening and you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, the time is now to take action and obviously to become a patient of either one of your practices. I think that the best next step.

Partner with someone that is adequately trained in functional medicine. Right wherever you are listening and, you know, whatever area you're in, seek that out. Make sure that they are credentialed. Well, and not only that, that they're invested in long term study. Because, you know, the things that Lori and I learned in our primary education back 15, 20 years ago, you know, it's a process of evolution. We're constantly at conference, we're constantly learning and studying on webinars, connecting with people like Michael in the industry, Grassroots, what's going on back there to help us understand better what to bring to our consumer, how to help you navigate, how to help you answer these difficult questions. We value your health. Your health is your number one asset. We want to make sure that we're helping you maximize that the best you can.

And I think I want to partner onto that and just add on one additional thing. And I think sometimes we think when we partner with a healthcare provider in the aspect of nutritional supports and wellness, that there's a finish line. And I think we know that there's not a finish line. There's not a finish line until we're six foot under. But I think sometimes in our heads, we think when we get to this point, you know, we, we stop and we raise a really good point right now is this isn't the time to exit. This is the time to lean in. Because the evolution of change, what's coming to market right now is it's mind blowing. And it's even mind blowing for us that are in it, you know, so stay the course to Kelly's point, very much lean into finding the right provider for you who is staying educated and recognize it as a journey, as a lifelong journey. Because as your seasons of your life change, your needs change and blood work and diagnostics and all of that, uncover these blind spots. But we have the ability to repair and heal alongside of the core things that, you know, what you eat, what you drink, how you sleep, move and think. And yes, we should all know them by now. Whether we do them or not is a different story, but we should definitely know them by now. But definitely recognizing it that you're not a failure because you, you know, you know, if you keep going right, coaching is important to be successful.

That's right. So, Michael, how can people find healthevity Obviously Lori and I are utilizing your products in our clinics, but if you're a consumer listening to this that's not currently partnered with a functional medicine provider or in a different area, like what is the best way for them to find out who is is investing in healthevity?

So our website's a great place to learn and explore. There's plenty of references. Every product has, why we chose each ingredient. And so that website is www.healthgev. that's healthgev.com and you can also follow us on Instagram with the handle healthgevity. So you could drop us a note that way. Follow us and those are probably the two main areas to learn more about what we're doing and what we're bringing to market.

And I believe we'll be adding an affiliate link as well in the chat notes of the podcast today too. So if they are looking for more information or to align themselves with either one of us, that's another way for them to contact us as well. So thank you so much and I cannot wait for the rest of the story because it sounds like there are big things on the horizon.

We're just warming up. I really appreciate the invitation today. I hope I'll be invited back so we can continue this evolution together.

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