Buyer Beware: All About Supplements

Wellness is a practice, not just a word.

Welcome to the Synergy Podcast, where myself, Kelly Engelman and Lori Essery shed light on powerful tools and topics that nourish.

Your body and most importantly, feed your soul.

Welcome, everybody, to the Senergy Podcast. I am so excited to be back today with you guys. We have the delight of having Joelle Daniel's today with us in studio. We're going to be interviewing her. And listen, it's buyer beware. We're going to be talking about all things supplements. The reason why we need to have supplementation in our lives. What they can do, what they can't do, how they're made, what we need to be aware of as buyers. Y' all listen in.

Welcome to the show. We are so excited to have you, Joelle. So tell us a little bit more about you.

Well, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. I do work for a company called Zymogen Whole Scripts. Both companies. We own them both. And I've been with the company since 1996 and was there at the inception when the team started Zymogen. I've worn many hats over the years, but my primary responsibility is educating health care practitioners on our formulas and how they are best used to increase positive outcomes in patients. I'm really passionate about what I do. I got into this field of work because I was a sick patient. I think I'm like many of the patients that walk into your clinics. Unfortunately, it took me a long time to get to a functional medicine practitioner who looked at root causes versus trying to put out fires in the forms of symptoms all the time. I approached my job altruistically, and then I really want to have patients not get into some of the holes that I fell into on the way to health.

I can honestly say, knowing you for as many years as I've known you, that passion comes through. You know, Lori and I are geeks. We absolutely love education. We're constantly learning and growing, and you've been a big part of that for us. You've been a big part of putting things in front of us and giving us opportunities as providers to spread our wings and to provide for our patients. Quality supplements that we know 100% for sure are top quality and top grade. So thank you. Thank you for being here and sharing with us today.

Yes, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Joel, I've just got to ask you, why is this conversation today that Kelly and I wanted to have for our listeners? Why is this important for you?

I'm passionate about what I do because I want to save patients from falling into the same holes that I fell into as a sick patient back in the 90s, 1990. I was very sick and I went the conventional medicine route and really they were just doing symptom control. They weren't looking at root causes. So I did filter my way into a multilevel supplement company who spent thousands of dollars with and didn't get well. I had no result whatsoever. And it wasn't until I went to a functional medicine practitioner who did diagnostics with me and took me through a pretty rigorous, difficult program that was part of the onus was on me to make changes in my life and to take supplements. I took a lot of them, more than I really wanted to, but I'm better and. And I haven't had to hear the S word, which is what I call surgery. I haven't had to hear that word for some sort of ailment since. So that's my goal, is to get people the access to people like you, practitioners of care and practice, good medicine.

Absolutely. So we know that it can be a journey of finding your way as a patient. You know, most of our patients are seekers most of the time. By the time they get to us, they've been many, many places. We're not their first stop oftentimes. So we hear that story over and over and over as it plays out in real time even today. And I don't know if the Internet's made that more problematic or less problematic. I mean, I'm thinking back in the 90s, we didn't really have the Internet to lean to, to find access to resources. So I'm thinking you were kind of walking in the dark a good bit. And today I think we're walking in the light of the Internet. But it's oftentimes down paths that lead us nowhere. And I can imagine what that feels like as a patient. You know, we've all been there as patients ourselves, trying to find our own way.

And we need to be smart consumers because of that. Right. Not just believing everything that we see and making sure that we are educated to filter. Right.

So why in the world do we have the need for supplementation today? Right. Shouldn't we just be able to eat our way out of a problem?

I mean, that's what we learned in school.

Right.

Most of our medical programs, you know, we don't. We don't need to take nutrients, so we don't need to take supplements.

It was just very expensive urine. That's what I was taught.

Yes.

Very expensive urine. Don't waste your money on those supplements. Right.

And then sometimes, you know, we hear, well, it's just another pill, right? We're sick. It's just another pill where. And you know, we're trying to get them to understand that it's really a supplement that fills in nutritional gaps. So let's talk about nutritional gaps. Like why does our food or why does it not meet our nutritional needs?

So they say today that 10 cups of spinach today would be what one cup of spinach would have been about 10 years ago in nutritional density. In nutritional density.

And who can eat 10 cups.

Who can eat 10 cups of spinach every single day? Right. And I'm challenged myself. We say we need nine cups of vegetables a day as an adult to meet our nutritional demands. I don't have that much chew time in my day. I mean, I've tried to make it work, but I just don't have that much chew time. And even with juicing, which I do daily, and even with my smoothies, I'm still not meeting that quota oftentimes at the end of the day when I look up.

So our soil is very nutrient poor, right. It lacks in minerals the way that we grow our foods now, right.

Mono cropping. So oftentimes that soil is not nutrient dense because we've grown the same crop over and over. And by the end product, it's not. There's no nutrient value there.

And we're growing anything, anytime, anywhere. We're speeding up the growth, skipping over maturation processes that are necessary for nutrients. And food doesn't even taste like it anymore. I mean, eat a strawberry that's conventionally grown, it doesn't even taste like a strawberry anymore. So just very, very nutrient poor food. And so I had to really rethink how I was trained as well. And I understand, you know, if you're going to. I would say this to our consumers and those listening today. If you're going to your doctor and they're saying, you know, you don't need to take that, it's just going to be expensive urine, I really urge you to dig deeper and look because you're not going to correct your nutritional deficiencies with food alone.

And to the flip side of that, you're not going to correct your nutritional deficiencies with supplements alone. Yes, it really is the marriage of the two that is the sweet spot, I believe. And then we think about supplementation. There's a time and a place for supplementation, for healing. You know, your supplement regiment that you mentioned Joelle, you took more pills than you wanted to initially because you were working through a healing process. And oftentimes that's the case. When they come in, there's a lot of malabsorption going on in the GI tract. Oftentimes more supplementation is needed to get that issue resolved. And then there's a period of time where perhaps you're on more of a maintenance or more of a, let's see how we maintain with the knowledge that you may go through stressors in life where you need to bump up your supplementation. So oftentimes equate that to what are you, what are you asking your body to do? And that oftentimes dictates the strategies behind what we need in the way of supplementation to make that happen.

So, and because of that, when choosing supplementation, it's really important to choose quality, quality supplements to fill in those nutritional gaps that like, as you just said, we create those nutritional gaps.

Absolutely.

We create them ourselves. Whether it's something we like, we don't like. We cook it a certain way, raw versus cooked.

Right. And then we eat that thing, what's it called, sugar, that steals all of our nutrients from us. Because it takes a lot of nutrients to out process sugar. Not that I do that. No, I would never do that. But yes, sometimes I do that. That's right.

So that makes this an even more important conversation about quality nutrients, how to purchase them, how to buy them, where to get them from, and making sure that you have a relationship with a trusted, qualified healthcare practitioner to give you that guidance. So Joelle, do you wanna add anything to that nutritional conversation that we just had?

I think the lives we live now are much more stressful than the lives we lived before. We know that high stress really affects our digestion and our gut health, even if. And it doesn't. The orange that was grown 50 years ago was so much higher quality with nutrients or dense nutrients than it is now. But even if it was still that same orange, our digestion is so screwed up from the stress that we face every day from chemicals in our environment, from a stressful life, and more demands on us that it wouldn't matter. We're still not getting the nutrition we need. But I agree. I would prefer to eat whole food. I think that we need to have a lifestyle that includes exercise and meditation and prayer. But we're not going to get it all from food. We're just not. Not without supplements.

Absolutely.

So I wanted to ask a couple of questions. You know, the question is no longer Are supplements necessary? Because we all know that our nutritional intake is so poor, the quality of our food is so poor. So it's no longer a question of, you know, do we need them, it's now a question of when we need them, what do we choose? So we wanted to kind of dig a little bit deeper with you on what does that look like? What is a quality nutritional supplement look like?

Well, as a consumer, prior to any of my knowledge in this field, I just assumed whatever I picked up on a shelf of a store. And of course, this was pre Internet days, but it's even more crucial now. I assumed that everything was okay. The New York Attorney General's office did an investigation where they took lots of products off of shelves of major retailers and not one of them met label claim, and all of them, except one had contaminants.

So wait, wait, hold on. Joelle, you said none of them met label claim. So what you're saying is what was on the label was not what was in that bottle? That's huge.

That's correct. Wow, that is huge. And even something as simple as vitamin C didn't make the mark. And I think that's the most expensive supplement to purchase is no matter what the price tag is on that shelf, if it doesn't have what it, what it says and it doesn't do what it's supposed to, it's a waste of money.

Absolutely. And it could be dangerous as well. Right. Oftentimes in that study, they found that there were contaminants in the product. Right. Not just that it wasn't what it said it was. Maybe it was something that would be harmful as well.

Exactly.

Yeah.

At Zymogen, we really took that to heart and we built a manufacturing facility from ground up. And we didn't take an old warehouse and repurpose it. And in doing the ground up construction, we were able to control manufacturing that other companies that try to convert an existing building weren't able to do. And they're a little bit boring, but they really do contribute to the fact that every capsule in every bottle is the same dose as all the rest of them. So. So we don't get one capsule with 40 milligrams and another with 200, but they're consistent dosing. And we meet label claim and we don't have contaminants. So what's on the label is nothing more and nothing less than what is shown.

So Lori and I have been able to visit, right. And we've been able to see manufacturing. It was really cool. Walking through there and it's like a real eye opener to see all of that come together from the way that product is brought in and tested and then produced and then tested again. And there's a lot that goes into that process to make sure that, like you said, once you get that bottle, that every single capsule is the same.

That's correct. And we also do things that other manufacturers don't necessarily do, which is we qualify our vendors. So our suppliers that send us those raw ingredients, they have to go through a rigorous qualification process that once they're approved, we receive their product, we make sure that it comes with a certificate of analysis and a chain of custody. A chain of custody is going to tell us that it isn't genetically modified. The certificate of analysis, which is also called a C of A, tells us that that ingredient is active. And I don't remember the movie, but there's a movie that talks about the circle of trust. And even though we've pre qualified that vendor, they're not really in that circle of trust. We verify their certificate of analysis to make sure. And that's important to know because we reject raw ingredients all the time and we ship them to other people that make supplements. When we reject them, the supplier sends us a UPS label and we send them along.

So what you're saying is that, so.

They'Re out there, right?

So you're rejecting that product. Right. And it's being sent on to someone else who is using that product, who then that lands on the shelves. Getting back to your original statement of what's on those shelves, you used to think, go to any store, pick it up, that's a supplement that's safe for me and that's good.

Yeah. I'll have to say, when I first got into functional medicine, gosh, 2004, the last thing in the world I wanted to do was have product on my shelf. Like, I just didn't think that was, you know, something I needed to be getting myself into. But I would send patients with a list of what they needed and they would go to the local store and they would come back. Oftentimes they would come back with not what I asked them to get and something completely different because the person sold them something different for the symptom they were having. Right. But just assume they came back with what I asked them to get. You know, three months down the road, we're not seeing the result. And I'm like, I can't function this way. Not knowing that what I'm giving them is actually going to get them where they need to go. So the ability to bring in quality supplements to the practice and know that they're going to see that result with that product over a period of time has been a game changer for my practice.

Absolutely. And mine as well. And so I think as a consumer going to, whether that be an online platform to order supplementation or to a provider's office or to a store, what are they to look for on a bottle? Is there specific terminology that they should be looking for on that product when they purchase?

Well, there is a stamp on a label that says gmp that stands for good manufacturing practices. And that can be helpful, but it's still no guarantee right now with the current environment where supplies are short, demand is high. It's like the wild, wild west. There are so many supplement raw ingredients out there that we get into our manufacturing facility that aren't making the mark. Also, we receive things that are substandard and our rejection rate has gone up during this last few years.

So what you're saying is that that certification of good manufacturing practices, which historically we have said to our consumers, use that as a guide, what you're saying now is we have to be cautious even with that on the label, Correct?

That's correct. I think you really, the consumer needs to do that and look to their healthcare practitioner who has done the research like you and Kelly have done.

Yeah. So that means digging deeper really, not just to understand again that they got that label right, because that there's a price that comes with that cgmp, Correct?

Right, there is.

So there's a price that comes with that. So it's really going beyond that. And like you said, getting to your qualified healthcare practitioner to dig deeper into the companies behind the brand. That's what I hear you saying, the companies and what the companies are doing.

What their standards are.

Yeah.

Can you speak Joelle, at all to this thing that's going on with counterfeiting of product? So you go online to buy a product, the label looks like a good manufacturing label and you get the product, but it's not the real thing. What can you tell us about that?

Absolutely, yeah. When we first started Zymogen, we were the new kids on the block and we did set the standard higher for everyone. And what we found in a couple of instances where our label had been mimicked and put on a bottle, how we found this is the person who got the bottle, had a complaint about it and we happened to mark all our bottles so we know who bought it, where it went, and These bottles weren't marked and the marking isn't seen, but we have a way to read it. And the products ended up being counterfeit. And if we had those happen 20 years ago, it's even worse now. So we check that all the time.

Wow. So I'm just thinking about how many people go online thinking that they're getting a good quality product, because maybe they did look for Zymogen or another brand name that's trusted. But then when they get that product, that product is not even what they think it is. And how do we protect from that? Right. Because everything's going online. Let's face it. The world has changed as we know it. And we are going to see vendors that historically have not sold online be there. And how do we know that we're buying directly from that vendor? What can we do to look for that?

So how do we know, Joelle, what can we do and what can we help? I feel like this is buyer beware. Right?

Right.

Buyer beware.

It's definitely buyer beware. And I think the way to protect yourself is, is to again, go through a healthcare practitioner who's done the research, because you'll even see our formulas show up online. But that's no guarantee. It was interesting. There was a patient who returned product to a doctor, and the reason she returned it was because she didn't see the product on Amazon. So the patient automatically assumed that if it was on Amazon, that it had been checked. And we know people selling on Amazon, Amazon have been caught selling counterfeit products. And Amazon's gotten in trouble for that as well.

Yeah. So directly through what you're saying is through either a visit with your qualified healthcare practitioner in which you're picking that up in their office, or they have given you a direct link to or provided you the proper way to walk through ordering it to know that it is the brand and the product that they have recommended.

Absolutely.

Does Zymogen have codes on the bottles that patients can view to verify that it is a Zymogen product?

No, but we do have our marking that we put on the label.

Okay, so Zomagen can see that.

Yeah.

If you needed to investigate, but the patient themselves couldn't see that. Yeah. So it is tricky. It is buyer beware for the person out there trying to get themselves better. They have all these symptoms that they're dealing with, or maybe they're just trying to optimize their health. You know, they're into fitness and they want to stay well. And it is truly buyer beware when it comes to the purchasing of those supplements online, I think.

So tell us a little bit about third party testing of raw material. You've said we've talked a little bit about contaminants, but what is that third party process look like to help you clearly know what product to reject versus to keep?

So what we do when that wrong greeting comes in and it has that certificate of analysis, we're unique in that. We have our own analytical services laboratory right in our building, a large one with very progressive equipment. And we can do what most labs do. So we test it initially ourselves and make sure that it's within specification. But at the end product or during the process, if there's certain tests that we need to do on an ingredient, we send it out to a third party independent laboratory. So that's a laboratory that has no skin in the game. They don't care whether it, you know, they don't make any money off it passing or not. They make their money either way. And we just verify that our results are true and valid. And it costs a lot of money to do that. And we've been told that we over test things and the owner of our company is okay with that. We want to put out a quality product that makes patients.

Is that even possible?

Right.

I think. Is that even possible to over test? Right, exactly.

From a functional perspective, Absolutely not. Exactly. Right. We love the testing.

But you bring up a great point, is, you know, in the age in which everything is costing more, you know, many of our patients are really thinking about their budgets and they're wanting to trim them down as much as possible.

Right.

But we can't cut corners here. That's what I hear you saying today. We can't cut corners. We gotta be really particular. So what does it cost? I just, I gotta kinda know, like what does it really cost to maybe batch test? Like give us a little bit of an idea of the cost difference between putting just any product on a shelf at gnc, Walgreens, Walmart versus putting a product on your warehouse shelf.

I don't know the exact costs. I would say that it would easily double or triple the price because just the testing that we do with independent laboratories costs about $100,000 per month.

Wow.

And I want to reiterate that the most expensive supplement you buy is the one that doesn't work. So while we're trying to limit and cut our costs, like you said, Lori, this is not the place to do that.

Right.

So I want to, I want to dig a little bit deeper into product labels. And things that catch our eye as a consumer when we shop. NSF is one of the things that my clients will come in and say that they see on a bottle. What does NSF mean?

Well, it's a paid for subscription. So the company pays. The National Sanitation Foundation, I believe is what it stands for. And they pay for that subscription. So it's not any additional verification that happens. It's not like a GMP or for instance, Zymogen is an FDA registered facility and we're inspected every 10 to 14 months. They knock on the back door, they give us no warning and they come in and they stay for a couple of weeks and they verify everything.

So NSF is just something on the bottle to trick, if you will, the consumer into believing there's something better about this formula than maybe one that doesn't have NSF on it. Is that correct?

Absolutely. And it would be like a company that pays for their products to be checked by the Consumer Reports organization or something like that. Those are all paid for subscription.

So is. Is USP the same thing? Because I've noticed a lot of, I would say brands that you see on the shelves at a health food store maybe or even at a grocery store, they've had, there's USP on there. Tell us a little bit about usp. What is that?

I'm not exactly sure. However, generally the USP means United States Pharmacopoeia. And that's a standard of ingredient. And of a raw ingredient, would that.

Make that product any better than one that is labeled as CGMP or nsf? Does it create a better quality or not?

I think it is something to look for in that we know the company's going the extra mile and using a USP raw ingredient. So one that has a standard.

Great question. So I'm curious, you know, when I toured the Zymogen facility a few years ago, one of the things that just impressed me was the humidity control. Because I'm all about air quality control. I'm kind of obsessed with that. If anyone knows me well, they know why. But I noticed that there was a lot of pains taken to really control for humidity in specific areas. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how that equates to better quality product?

I can. And this does make Zymogen unique because again, we built our building, our manufacturing facility was built from the ground up. We didn't take a warehouse and repurpose it. In doing that, we were able to install train car size dehumidifiers. And from the time A raw ingredient enters manufacturing. Till the time it comes out, we can control how much moisture is in the air. And that's important because most ingredients are degraded by exposure to two things, humidity and heat. And by preventing the humidity in the first place, we don't have to apply heat to get things to flow properly. Our humidity control is from anywhere from 15 to 24%, depending on what's being manufactured that day.

Wow.

And in Florida, where you're located, that is even more important.

Right, right.

It is. When we opened our manufacturing facility, we opened it in about April of 2011, and we were able to test it very easily because we had 19 straight days in the beginning of June, that year of rain. And they constantly were checking that because it was new.

So let's talk about shipping practices, because one of the things that we know is that you are shipping all over the United States, Is that correct?

We are.

And are you also abroad? What, are there other locations that you guys ship to as well?

We have a warehouse that we use in Canada that we own and ship in Canada.

Okay.

We also have distributors in other countries.

Expanding.

So we do ship.

Yeah, expanding. So the shipping process, I can imagine, has to be quite controlled to make sure that the end consumer gets quality products. How does Imogen control for that?

Everything is under air conditioned, temperature controlled environment, unlike some major Internet sellers who have big warehouses and don't always do that. And so you can imagine if you're maybe a patient's taking a probiotic and they're ordering it off of the Internet, it might have been stored on a third story rack in the middle of summer somewhere and might not end up the way it was meant to be at their home.

So from the time that a person orders, whether that be, you know, directly through. Again, through a provider recommending a specific link. Right. In which they're ordering directly from you, what is the turnaround time from that order to getting it out the door to them and then receiving it?

Typically, we'll ship within 48 hours, if not 24 mm. And depending on where they're located in the country, it could be one to three days.

Yeah, I was just wondering because I know that there's a controlled amount of, you know, the heat, as you spoke of before, I think one of the consumer questions would be, does the heat of that shipping process like, how is that controlled to make sure they're getting a product that is still, you know, that is. It's still quality.

We have equipment where we put a product in and we expose it to heat and humidity. So we know exactly how it's affected. And for instance, our probiotics, which when we make them, we double fill them. What I mean when I say that is we put double the amount of the ingredient in there and then what is on the label is what the strength of that product is at the expiration date. So another way to say that is if we have 30 billion strength probiotic, we might fill that with 60 or 70 billion when we make it. We have checked it, we know that if it's exposed to 107 degrees for three days, it's still two years down the road going to have and meet the label claim.

Excellent. Right. Which. That's the standards that you guys have put in place to ensure again, the quality product.

And a lot of patients feel like if their probiotic is not refrigerated, then it's not a good quality probiotic. But you guys have been able to vacuum seal, right. That probiotic in a way that keeps it fresh so that it doesn't degradate with temperature changes.

That's true, however, because we control that humidity from the very beginning and we never have to apply the heat. A probiotic, for instance, is brought to life by heat and moisture. And so we've never brought that product to life before it gets in the capsule and before it gets to the patient. It's very stable. And then we nitrogen flush it into a blister pack. So again, works removing any of the unwanted part of the environment that might bring that probiotic to life. And it's only going to live about three days once it's brought to life. We want that to happen after the patient gets it. So we expose it to nothing. That's gonna put that at risk. Parry to that.

That's a lot to unpack.

It really is. I was thinking, baby. Yeah, right.

We gotta go back a little bit to really understand what you just said. Cause I think that's really important when you said that raw product, as I understood, it isn't brought to life until, say it. Until when?

Heat and moisture. Right.

Heat and moisture is what brings a probiotic to life, makes it active.

Okay. And that happens when.

When the patient swallows it.

And you control that how?

By not exposing it to heat or moisture during the manufacturing process. If a company wasn't doing that, that might be when you would need to refrigerate it.

Right.

But we avoid that.

And that part of that process is how you also place it in the blister packs. Right?

Yes.

Which is phenomenal.

It is. And the Nitrogen flushing gets the oxygen out of there. So that product is sealed and viable and every dose. A trick in the industry would be to put a powder in a bottle because every time the patient picks up the bottle, they're going to displace the powder. As it degrades, it gets hard like concrete. Another challenge is that just a plastic bottle allows too much air and moisture in. There's even a website that rates plastic bottles and how the vapor and they're rated. So we just avoid all of that.

Yeah.

So I guess my question would be, when probiotics are supplied in a bottle like that, what is the best way to store them for the consumer? Is it refrigeration at that point?

Probably. Since we don't do that. I never really have to advise somebody on how to do that. Ours are always in a blister pack or they're in a stick pack. So each dose is controlled.

Right. Which I'm sure that that costs. Right. The end consumer a little bit more for the product because of the way it's packaged, but going back to really costing more.

That's right. Let's talk about cost.

Right, Exactly. A cost is something that you spend money on that's not creating value on your investment. Right?

Absolutely. And not contributing to your health.

Right.

So the investment that's expensive. Yeah, yeah. I want to talk a little bit about the delivery system of products. You know, some of them are in capsules, some of them liquid, some of them in the straws that you referred to earlier. Give me a little understanding of what is the most appropriate type of delivery system for different types of nutrients.

Well, obviously there are some things like a fish oil. Zymogen uses a pre digested water soluble fish oil, but those have to be in gel caps. But there's some studies that show that taking a lot of gel caps is not good for you. But the benefit of is a gel of using a gel cap is the disintegration time. And so you're always. A supplement company is always chasing the disintegration time. And we use a second generation veggie cap which equals the disintegration time of a gel cap. It also doesn't disintegrate where it's not supposed to. So these, some of them will be digestive resistant like in a probiotic, but they're digested in the small intestine or large intestine or wherever they need to be at the time.

So sometimes it's very appropriate to have a liquid formulation for better absorption and digestion. Absolutely. Sometimes it's better to have them in a capsule form, sometimes sublingual, underneath of the tongue, based on, again, delivery system. Right. For that particular patient. But as you just also mentioned, and I think we need to also talk about a little bit, is the best way to get it to you is the one that you're going to follow, Right? Well, that's true.

Right. That is so, so true. So many people do not like powders. You know, they want everything in a capsule.

So if they're not going to take it, it's not any good for them.

It's not any good for them. It's going to sit in the bottle and not be contained, consumed.

Yeah, but then the delivery system really is the individual assessment of the qualified healthcare practitioner to determine how is their GI system. Right. Are they going to break it down and what's the best delivery for them. So that's, again, working individually with the client to make sure of that. But so, you know, it's really great to work with a company that offers multiple different delivery systems that allow us to choose what's best for them and.

Have the patient have a voice. You know, they're part of the equation, too. And knowing what they're going to do or willing to do and able to do is also a huge part of the decision making when we do choose a product for them. So, Joelle, you work for Zymogen.

I do.

How can patients connect with Zymogen through you or Lori?

And just to let your listeners know, you are the most amazing women. You're skilled practitioners. I see clinics all day, every day, and I have incredible respect for you. You have gone the extra hundred miles and looked at the science and educated yourselves, and you do think outside the box and you're not afraid to say, I'll find out. And I really respect that. And any patient that ends up in your clinics are in the right hands, and it's really amazing.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

What a blessing.

Sure.

Absolutely. Well, I can speak for myself. I've known you, Joelle, for years. In fact, you are one of the key women who inspired me to take a new approach and look at healthcare delivery differently. And really, you know, back in the day, I like to say, when I was experiencing my own health challenges, you really inspired me to dig a little bit deeper, you know, get more education and look at nutrients. And I'm just really thankful for our relationship, and I really appreciate you sharing your expertise with our listeners.

Absolutely. Joelle, it's a pleasure having you here. And, you know, we're blessed to have you take care of us in Mississippi. You know, I got to know you through Lori, and the only way we got you here was really through that relationship. The relationship I had with Lori and the relationship she had with you brought you to Mississippi. And so we're delighted, as always, to have you feeding into our teams with education and resources. And that goes to our patients. Right. We're able to spread that to our patients. So we really do appreciate you being here.

Thank you so much.

Well, thank you. But I want to say, you know, that really goes along with what we say all the time with synergy, that we really are better together. We're stronger together.

We're stronger together. Yeah, absolutely.

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