Nurturing Relationships Through Lifestyle Changes with Karen Stange

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Welcome back to the Senergy Podcast. Today we are honored to have Karen Stange, a licensed marriage and family Therapist with over 25 years of experience joining us. Karen specializes in individual, family and couples counseling addressing a wide range of issues including mood disorders, relationship challenges, and addiction recovery. She is also proficient in eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing EMDR therapy, effectively helping clients overcome depression, anxiety, unresolved grief, and past traumas. A graduate of the University of Central Florida, Karen is dedicated to fostering respect, empathy, and understanding in her therapeutic relationships. She believes in empowering clients to discover their own solutions and implement necessary changes to realize new dreams. In today's episode, we'll delve into Karen's extensive experience in mental health, her approach to therapy, and her insights on personal growth and healing. Let's welcome Karen Stange to the Synergy Podcast. And don't forget, like and share. We really appreciate more people getting the opportunity to hear this content. Kelly and I love doing what we do. Please share.

So welcome back. Lori and I are excited and thrilled to have you here listening today as a guest and we get to have a special guest with us today, Karen. Karen is a mental health counselor and she has extensive knowledge on helping people navigate lifestyle change. And it's such an important topic when we dig into this as it relates to relationships. You know, relationships are important, community is important, and oftentimes when we're starting to make these lifestyle changes, life can feel a little lonely. So we're gonna talk today about how to nurture those relationships, how to make those relationships stronger in the midst of making lifestyle changes. So, Karen, thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom with us. I know Lori and I get into these conversations oftentimes with patients and. And these are tender conversations. Right. We want to nurture relationships. Relationships can be important. So thank you for being here.

You're welcome. I'm so glad to be here today.

So tell us a little bit, Karen, about your backstory. What led you to a profession in being so intimately intertwined with helping others improve their overall mental health and well being?

Well, you know, in my 40s, I went back to school and got a master's degree in counseling and started doing counseling. I was working in an addictions treatment facility for 16 years and just found a lot of passion in helping people. Helping people overcome challenges, struggles in their own lifetime and then, you know, how to turn that around and make that something positive for themselves and promote their own personal growth. It's just always been very rewarding and fulfilling. To me as well as my own health journey led me into more of a functional medicine type situation where I was looking for a root cause, any kind of health or illness or unwellness that I might have. And let's root out the root cause and treat that deeper part of yourself so that you can have more success in your outcomes.

Most of us in functional medicine or integrative medicine or in this space really have had our own story. Right. And I think that's honestly what really makes us more passionate about what we do and taking a different approach. And I've had the unique benefit of knowing you for a long time and being able to ask you to come alongside of patients healing process. So they're not just working on the physical health, but really working on their emotional health and well being. And so I thank you for you turning your, your story into your passion to help others. It's definitely made a difference.

Great. I'm glad. It's very rewarding for me as well. So.

Yeah, so oftentimes we hear we become the average of the five people we hang around. Right. So choose wisely guys. Choose wisely. I'm lucky because my best friend is a functional medicine provider and you know, she, she's always challenging me to do, to level up how I'm taking care of myself, how I'm talking to myself. But a lot of people don't have that, they don't have that person. I'm also lucky in that my husband's a really good supporter of lifestyle change. So what do we say to people that don't have their top five people that are supported in their health and wellness journey and they're just getting started, right?

How do you create that support network that you need? You know, and part of that is you're here listening to this podcast. You're already on your health journey, you're already looking for positive outcomes. But you know, in, in creating that supportive. Let's say you're in a primary relationship. The here you come home with a new way you want to eat, a new way you want to supplement your health. You know, can they join in? You know, is to ask them, will you join in? Oh no, I'm sticking with my burger and fries. Okay, well how about we add a salad to that, you know, and you slowly integrate some of your new ideas or the new things that you're doing. And if you get like a 70, 30 buy in, 70%, you know they're going to do their thing. 30%, they're going to buy it. You're going to feel more supported, you know, education, involving them in some of the meetings that you have with your primary care people, involve them listening to some of the coach meetings that you have so that they get an idea of how well rounded this lifestyle change is. It's not just I'm changing my diet, I'm changing everything. I want everything to get better. I want to age healthy and I want you to age healthy with me and then ask them to buy in, you know, as much as they can.

Right. So what I hear you say is including them in the journey early on.

Early on in the journey, yes. And then asking them for repeated support, you know, or make a dish that's all vegan or all vegetables and, you know, serve it to them. I haven't hardly met anybody who wouldn't just eat something that was fixed for them if they like the taste of it, you know, so, you know, include them.

And it sounds like what you just said is, is re asking, right? It's not. Ask them just one time. Because I do think it's so important. One of the things that we have established for a long time, Kelly and I, is uniquely in our practices, inviting and actually asking and at one point mandating even that spouses or significant others would be with them and if they didn't have someone that was their significant other or spouse to bring a dear friend of theirs as an accountability partner as another set of years, you know, I don't mandate that anymore. We talk about it a lot because what I have found is anytime you tell a person they have to do something, what's the first thing they do, I'm not doing it right potentially. So I think when you explain to them why it's so important to have their loved one there, that this isn't just about you and the changes. Your changes are going to impact your family and you want your family's buy in. So I like what you said about starting it out, but I also love what you said about reiterating the ask.

And then also validating the participation. I love that you ate that with me. You know, it's to reinforce it. It's to build bridges between each other, not walls. So I want you to connect to me. I want you to be a part of my life and I want to be a part of yours. How do you feel about all that?

And I think, Karen, even if they don't like it, so you make something, you know, we've all made the thing that didn't turn out so well, right? With good intentions, just Encouraging them, hey, I'm so glad you tried it. I'm so glad you tried it. You know, we'll try it different next time. And so it's not a, you know, we don't take it personally that they didn't like what we prepared and they don't feel like, you know, that they've done something bad by not liking it either. Yeah.

And that emotional connection is when they say, you know, when you say to them, I appreciate you participating with me is why. Because I want to do this health journey. I'm glad my heart is feeling better, I have more energy. How does that feel for you? It feels good for me, you know, and keep bringing it back to the why. You know, not just thank you for that, but thank you because this is why I'm doing this.

You know, oftentimes with couples, we have unique ways of connecting that aren't always so obvious and in your face. So I have a couple that I've worked with for many, many years, and they're kind of a power couple. They're both into health and wellness in their own way. She's really. They both exercise a lot. She's more into diet than he is. He's more into fun. Like, how can we make it fun? And she came in for one of her visits and she was really frustrated because she was really working on body composition. And she said that when they were dating, he would go to the convenience store. And this is when they were in high school. They'd been together over 30 years, maybe even closer to 40, but he would go to the convenience store and buy her M and Ms. When they were dating. And that's something that he'll still do. And so he's buying her these M&Ms. She's trying to work on her diet and her body composition. She was really frustrated, you know, kind of at her wits end. Like he. Doesn't he get it? And I'm like, girl, he's just trying to connect, you know, he's just. That was a way you guys connected. He made you laugh. It was fun. You know, where's the fun? Where have you put the fun in the relationship? And where are you spending the time connecting? So oftentimes I think we forget how much how little things like that are not sabotaging.

Right.

Because we want to sometimes blame and say, well, they're sabotaging me and this and that. Sometimes it's just they're trying to connect.

Exactly. I mean, and she could buy a big one of those big glass containers and drop Those bags down in there. And in a year, she's got a whole bag, containers. Look how much you love me. And she never ate one of them.

You know, that's a really good idea. That's a very good visual, too. Almost like flowers. Right. Almost like he gave her flowers and she could put them in a vase. That's special. I didn't even think about that. That's awesome, Erin.

That's why we love you. Like taking that and actually changing the imagery around. Right. It's still accepting it. It's not. Not declining that. Right. And then putting it into something that you can see every day. Right.

Of looking, love me, even slide in an early dating picture of how when that became such a, you know, something meaningful in their relationship. It's validating to everybody, but we're not doing that anymore.

The backside back side of the car has to have what, skull and crossbones?

Yeah. Or a big old picture of broccoli.

Well, sometimes there's those. Those instances that, you know, that a person comes in and they're just so excited to get started. And I think the natural tendency is for. For us to assume, meaning the patient to assume that. That people love me enough. Everyone's going to be on board. Right. I think that's where the. The brain goes. And I think it's natural sometimes when people don't jump on board. Right. Support in the way we think we should be supported. Right. Then take that. We take offense to that. And that can become a reason why we are sabotaged potentially. So what. How do you coach clients to. You said connect and to have these conversations. But when there is a lot of pushback, when there is a. You're not going to that restaurant we used to go to, and when we sit down, we always ordered a drink. And now you're not ordering that drink. And it really does and can create a lot of tension. How do you coach them?

Well, conflict resolution is a difficult thing for some people. If they're in a power struggle and they're not used to getting out of that power struggle is, you know, maybe you go and you order a drink, but it's, you know, ginger ale with a splash of cranberry juice and a lime. So it looks like a drink, feels like a drink, but not a drink. And then the partner is like, okay, you know, we have this moment before the meal where we're still engaging and interacting with each other. And in that moment, talk about what worked, what was good this week, what was great between each other, or maybe what didn't work, you know, whatever. I wish we had done this differently. How about you asking questions, you know, for me not having the drink, I still feel connected to you. Explain how you feel in the moment without doing the old behavior. I still feel connected when I'm there. I don't need the drink. I don't mind if you have the drink, you know, or something along those lines where you're compromising, feeling supported. You know, we all want to be listened to by the other person, and we want to belong. So when you make another choice and you feel that feeling of like they're not belonging in the partnership anymore, you have to put something out there that makes them feel engaged and like they are still belonging. That's what they're looking for, is that feeling of having that drink and that camaraderie and conviviality at that moment. You know, they don't. They're feeling left out or like someone's not participating with them in what they're doing. Yes, I am. I'm just not adding the alcohol.

Are there times in relationships where there does have to be somewhat of a detachment of sorts, whether that be emotionally or physically?

Yeah, I think to me, that's healthy. You know, it's just to step back and make a healthy detachment.

So, Karen, describe a healthy detachment because what. What does that look like? Give us an example of like, what a healthy. Detach a situation or an experience for a healthy detachment.

Well, let's just say, you know, you've cooked chicken and broccoli in a salad, and they're not happy about that. And then they want something else. A lady said the other day, I cook two meals every night, one for him and one for me. And to me, she's healthily detached. Okay, fine. You want that? I'm gonna fix you this. And she provides that for him. Cause she wants to. She has time and she wants to. They're retired now. A younger couple might not have that kind of feeling about it. They might have. Oh, come on. I already did all this work all day long. How come you're not participating with me? And the healthy detachment would be, well, all right, fine. I'm going to fix this. And maybe you can get your own meal. You know, it might come down to that without resentment.

But not being without resentment, without anger. Right. Healthy would actually appear. I have the time. I don't mind doing it. That kind of thing.

Exactly. And then if you're the younger couple and they could get their own. It's just emotionally detached from, you know. Okay. He's got it. He's worked all day, and he's got to do work. Well, let him. It's okay. That's what he wants. He wants something different. And then it's just how you react to whatever's happening. I'm going to react calmly, peacefully, engaging with you. I'm not going to be punishing or rejecting because you're choosing something different or I'm choosing something different.

So you're not detaching from the person, you're detaching from the emotional experience. Experience of the potential conflict.

Exactly.

That what you're saying.

Okay. Yeah, exactly. We all have reactions, you know, and we tell our kids, time out. You know, and we tell them, take a break and then come back and do it calmer with each other. Well, adults have the same thing. I tell couples all the time in couples counseling, take a time out. Don't keep engaging in. Understand me, Understand me. Well, that might not happen. So detached. Take a breather, come back in. Asking questions, you know, looking for, well, why? Why Are we at odds? What's going on here? Are you unhappy because I'm eating something different from you? Are you unhappy that I've gone to the gym and you didn't go? What is that? And find out. And then you might find out something beautiful. You know, my partner and I, they ask us one time, what are the ways you feel most loved by the other person? And I never knew, like, just sitting over closer to Jim on the couch made him feel loved. I had no idea, you know? And it was nice to know. Okay, well, I could do that for you sometimes.

Yeah. So what I hear you say is also, it's seeking first to understand before trying to be understood. It's approaching with clarifying questions. I'm sure that posture and. And the energy that we're emitting. Right. Understanding that our body language speaks volum too, and not a word. But how important that is. You know, I. I know several couples that, that it. The healthy detachment or the conversation around this comes from one partner who is wanting to have biomarkers, whether it's their lab work or body composition, to be better, to be improved, because they do want to live better. And they hear their spouse or significant other aching and hurting all the time and not willing to. To do it right. And they love them dearly and so badly want them to feel good. Right. But they're just not there yet. And so I think that's where this whole conversation with Kelly and I started, is how often we hear that in our practices. And we're not skilled to the extent and trained to do what you do. And I. So I think some advice to us as clinicians is what do we say in that moment where we do have that patient that is so frustrated because their loved one is, is, is, is walking through that?

Yes. And that, that's happening everywhere. And you know, it's kind of like the will to bear discomfort how, you know, you really need a strong will to bear discomfort in watching loved one either diminish because of a health issue or not feel better because they could make healthier lifestyle changes. You're not, you're powerless over that. You know they're going to choose what they choose and you are powerless over it. That's why I say if you can tweak them 30%, you know, if you just get them to drink more water, you know, fix them a glass of water. When you get a glass of water and that's what I do, I put it, fix Jim a glass of water, put it in front of him, I fix my water and he drinks it. He's not going to go get it because he doesn't care if he has the water or not. So. And he doesn't equate that with later in the day. He might feel less achy because he flushed his toxins. You know, he has no idea. So just little ways that you support them. But telling somebody to watch a loved one suffer is hard. That is a hard, hard thing. It breaks your heart, it makes you feel sad and you are basically powerless over it.

So, Karen, I love what you said because oftentimes having the conversation with them, for some reason it's a tender conversation, right? And they, they tend to get, they can get defensive, right, because they feel like they're doing what they know to do, right. But you, you took action in going to get the glass of water, right? So little things like that, to just nurture and provide healthy things when you can, and then them watching your journey of getting better and staying better. And I think oftentimes in society, especially in our area, it's one diet after another. You know, it's keto, it's paleo, it's intermittent fasting, it's time restricted feeding. It's one thing after, it's one diet after another, one diet center after another. From a spouse's point of view. And when they start a true health style lifestyle journey with functional medicine, getting to the root cause, oftentimes it's viewed as just one more thing. You know, this is just one more kick we're on. It's going to last for 30 days, and we're going to be done with this. So why am I even going to engage with that? And so I think it does oftentimes take time and them seeing sustainable results over time. And I've had many spouses join later, you know, a year into the wife's journey, or vice versa. The wife joins a year into their husband's journey because they saw sustainability and they saw true change. So for those of you that are really sitting in that spot right now where you really want your spouse to engage for themselves and you're not seeing it, I think really taking some steps to nurture that and maybe less with words and more with action is what I hear Karen say to help them be more open to what. What it. What are you doing? What is working for you and how can I engage?

Yeah. And I think what you said, Kelly, is so true, is reminding them that it's the long game. Right. Because, you know, many people that do come have done so many things and honestly spent a lot of money on a lot of good things that didn't definitely, you know, didn't necessarily work. The other thing is, I do believe that our words are very, very power. Meaning that I think in the very beginning, we do have to. Meaning the client. Right. And the providers of care working with our clients have to remind them and ourselves how we speak out loud. Our spouses and significant others want us happy. They want connection, and they want us happy. If we are saying, I really don't want to eat this, I can't have this, or I can't have that, or I have to take all of these supplements or whatever.

Whatever.

I mean, we've. We've all been in that moment, and we can be real and we can be raw with our spouses. Right? Right. And we should be able to have that. We have to remember that we have to change our conversation. We can eat anything we want to eat. Right. We're choosing this because we want to feel better. If they're constantly hearing that we are feeling deprived, we're not liking what we're doing, how are they gonna feel? Are they gonna buy in? And so I do think it is important to change language. Right. And remind ourselves of that. Our words do hold power for ourselves and for the people around us who just want us happy.

Yeah. We've had that discussion amongst our team members, just talking about how we talk to ourselves. Right. In the morning, what's the first thing we say? Are we happy to get up and start the day, or it's like, oh, it's Monday again. You know, little things like that are powerful. And so that's a good, good point to make, Lori, is the how we are expressing our journey to our significant other also is dictating how maybe they would receive it in themselves. Right. Is it a chore or. It is a privilege. I think it's in my mind, it's a privilege to be able to eat in a certain way, take the things that we need to take to get well, move our bodies, get good sleep at night. All of that is just such a. You know, we're blessed to be able to do those things, but we're not talking about it that way oftentimes.

Yeah.

So there are three pieces of advice, Karen, that you could offer. You know, because you've had a lot of experience around people who are really wanting to take a different path in their health and look at their health differently, more proactively versus reactively. What are three. Three words of wisdom that you would give them?

Well, have patience with yourself and with those around you. That everybody's in a learning curve and this is the beginning. So have patience, have the compassion for the other. Develop empathy. You know, compassion for the other person. There's a loss for them in some of this. There's a gain for them in some of this, but it's long term. They gotta wait. Again, back to patience, patience, empathy, and then, you know, giving to each other. You know, gratefulness. I'm so grateful that you're my spouse. I'm so grateful that you're happy that I'm doing all these things. You know, just validating back to others. So, you know, patience, validation, empathy. Empathy.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, those are all more like you were saying, those are the tender emotions. Those are the tender things we should be leaning into when we're trying to be with each other in new ways is the more tender feelings rather than the blocking feelings like you were talking before. We do get empower struggles, but we don't need to. If we practice some of these things like patience, empathy, validation, you know, using the skills and tools of listening and asking questions, you know, then you create that environment of those other three emotions.

And I think another thing I heard you say is also not a assuming that they know.

Right, right.

Having conversations of what your expectations of them as a part of your journey. I had the coolest thing happen last week in a new client visit in which the spouse said exactly that at the very end, as I was laying out the plan he kind of leaned into me. He was a skeptic from the start. And I, you know, I love that. I, I want that. Right. I want them there because I want them to be asking. Able to ask questions. And he leaned in at the end and he goes, what's my role going to be in this Walk alongside my wife as she does this. I was like, wow, that's awesome.

That is right.

So that I think too often we assume that they know what their role is and they don't.

No, they don't.

So not being assumptive in that.

Yeah. Teach what you. How you teach people how you want to be treated. So he wanted to know his role so he could treat her differently, you know, to support her and everything. So that's. Yeah. Found it through a question. He asked the question and that's the thing. Rather than assuming. And couples who've been together for a long time, both partners just tend to think they know and they're answering for the other person and they thought it all out and it's way. A lot of times way off base.

And the other thing, I think what happens is when they don't miss the mark or when they don't make the mark in our minds of our expectation, we expected them to behave a certain way to thing. Then we, our nature is or can be to become offended by that and think that it's intentional. And the reality is, is we haven't done a very good job at setting expectation and having communication. And so I do think that what I'm hearing you say today is how important at the very beginning of the journey it is to have those conversations, bring them on board early, have conversations and reiterate throughout. Like you said, empathy, conversation, gratitude for when they've done well, because particularly the men, I think, well, they really need to hear that. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. And I think as us, as women, there are some of us that really need. We all have different love languages, so maybe it's not a male female role. It really is about our individual uniqueness and what we need to feel loved.

So, Karen, thank you so much for coming on and having this time with us. We want to inspire all of our listeners to carve out space for those conversations, carve out space to really get in touch with what your partner needs and wants as you develop your lifestyle together. You know, it's so much more rich when we're sharing our life with our friends and our family and our loved ones. We all want to be known and to know each other and you know, lifestyle is just a big part of that. So we just appreciate you being here Karen and for our listeners, if you liked this episode, please like it, share it Leave us Comments we really want to hear from you what you're wanting to learn about. Lori and I have a huge passion for just getting in front of you the content that you really want to drive the next best step for your health and we look forward to seeing you again soon.

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