Redefining Aging: Blueprint for Health, Longevity, and Purpose

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to today's episode. We are thrilled to have a truly exceptional guest with us today. She's a trailblazer in understanding the fascinating world of aging and longevity. And she's making waves with her insights on how we live, work and thrive in our golden years. Meet Maddie, the co founder of Age Wave and a mastermind behind some of the most groundbreaking research on aging. From shaping the Future of Fortune 500 companies to championing women's roles in the longevity revolution, Maddie is redefining what it means to age gracefully and powerfully. But that's not all. As a prolific writer and a member of the Wall Street Journal's experts panel, Maddie's thought provoking insights have graced the pages of Bloomberg businessweek, Forbes, and Time. She's also the author of four incredible books, including her latest release, Ageless A Woman's Guide to Increasing healthspan Brain Span and Lifespan. Whether she's the complex relationships between women, money and power, or inspiring us to think differently about our futures, Maddie is a force to be reckoned with. So grab a cup of coffee, get cozy, and join us as we dive into the world of longevity and leadership with the one and only Maddie.

Welcome back, synergy listeners. We are so excited to have Maddie here today. This is a real treat for us. Lori and I met Maddie at a 4m a few months ago at a book signing. And I knew from the moment I saw her that I want with her again. And then when I got her book back home, Ageless Aging, I think I even read it in the airplane on the way home. I couldn't put it down and I was like, this lady is incredible. She's a pioneer in the world of aging. She's a researcher, she's a curator of research, and she's just a fabulous person. And we're so excited that she decided to join us today for the podcast and just be prepared to be enlightened and encouraged and inspired. So thanks, Maddie. Thanks for being here.

Well, thank you for inviting me. It's an honor to be joining you guys. I've been on this beat of aging, longevity and retirement for close to 40 years as the co founder of Age Wave. And Age Wave is a think tank. We are literally focused. We drill down deep doing research projects, doing consulting projects for God. We've worked with almost half of the fortune for 500. So we've been, and we've been doing this for a really long time. So you do the math. I started when I was in my 30s. I've been doing this for close to 40 years. I am 74 years old and still working and enjoying what I do, and I feel like longevity is finally having a real moment.

Yes, you just said a mouthful. So one of the things that you talked about in your book was this disparity between our health span and our lifespan.

Yeah. So for women in particular, but for all humans, there's some good news, there's some bad news, and there's some hopeful news. So the good news, the good news is that we are in the midst of a longevity revolution that's never really happened before. I mean, we saw in the 20th century what we at age wave identify as a longevity bonus. And so what is a longevity bonus? Well, we saw an extra 30 years of life in one century. So on the first day of the 20th century, average life expectancy was 47. On the last day, it went all the way up to, on average, 78. That's remarkable all by itself. But here's the good news for women, which is kind of bad news for men, and that is that we women, we've won the longevity lottery. We live an average of five to six years longer than men. And so men, you need to figure out what are we women doing that's better? But there's some really bad news. And that's, Kelly, what you were sort of alluding to. And that bad news is that women, on average, spend the last 12 to 14 years of their life in a cascade of poor health. I mean, things like Alzheimer's disease, arthritis, heart disease, stroke. I mean, the list goes on. And that's not good news. And by the way, there is a real gender gap. Men, actually, even when you correct for the fact that women have these longer lives, men do better when it comes to their health spans than women do. So, you know, go figure. But. But here is the hopeful news, and it's so nice to have some hopeful news. And that is that we used to believe it was pretty common practice that 70% of our health and wellness had to do with our genetics. And so it was kind of out of our control. It was like, whatever. And I don't know about you, but I have a really bad genetics package. My mom lived a decade of her life with Alzheimer's disease. My dad died at age 60 with two different kinds of cancers. So, oh, my God, no. To hear that genetics were not my destiny, that was like the best news ever. And the most recent science, out of Alphabet's Calico Labs, they tell us that more than 80% of our health and well being have to do with our lifestyle and our environment. I mean, literally, our destiny is not in the stars. It is in our hands. And that, wow, what great news is.

That oftentimes in our fork. Right.

And I think one of the things you said in your book that really hit me is that longevity is malleable, I believe is how you said it. And that word just. I think it really. It hit me kind of deep in that because, you know, Kelly and I are in it every day in functional medicine practices, which is. Which is amazing and we love what we do. But that word really is a strong word to say you do have control.

It's fixable, it's changeable. It's a game changer. I mean, it really is. Now it scares some people. They're like, oh, no, now I'm in charge. One more thing I have to think about and do. But, yeah, it is one more thing you have to think about and do. But once you can create those habits, and Kelly and Laurie, I know you help with women and men to do just that, then it becomes second nature. And when that becomes your second nature, you have the ability to impact your epigenetics. And your epigenetics are really what can turn on the good genes and turn off the bad genes. So that's what makes this whole thing, longevity and healthspan malleable. And by the way, also brain span. And from studies we've done at age wave, what we've learned directly from older adults, people over the age of 50, is that the number one fear that older adults have in terms of their health is getting Alzheimer's disease.

Yeah. I would think that's a pretty profound fear because losing control is loss of control at that point. Yeah.

And becoming reliant on other people. And, oh, you know, my mom, as I mentioned, had Alzheimer's disease. Disease. And she really struggled with it. And she was this bright star of a person. I mean, funny, charming, witty. I mean, she was. She had it all going on. But, you know, her personality completely changed. And on her 85th birthday, we gave her a birthday party with all her family and friends there to help celebrate. And it was a joyous occasion. But the next morning, we sat down to kind of like, let's debrief that. See what, you know. Who did you talk to? And my mom. She didn't remember the party.

Wow.

I know. It's a loose. It really hit me hard.

And we have to work so hard, you know, I think, first of all, believing that we have that power, right. To control it because the message around us for so long is that we didn't have control. So we have to work hard to intentionally remind ourselves that it is in our control. And to your point, sometimes that can be overwhelming. But you mentioned something else in your book too, about you have this, like, what is it? If you do one thing feature, you do one thing right. And you said that it is not, and I have to quote it, not incremental. It's exponential.

I know. Yeah. Doing one thing can make a huge, huge difference. Just let's use sleep as an example. I am naturally not a great sleeper. I have become much better, but I'm not a great sleeper. And so when I started looking at the science behind sleep, when I was doing my research on the book, what I began to realize is, well, wow, it used to be sleep science. And by the way, there is not one study that includes people over the age of 65 in their sleep studies. So, wow, they're just not included. So who knows what it's really like. Because we know sleep becomes more bothersome as one gets older. But anyway, putting that to the side, sleep science has really been morphing into circadian rhythm science and circadian rhythms. I mean, it controls every part of our body and mind, which is so super cool. So what I learned was what you do in the morning is as important to your sleep as what you do at night. And learning that, that was so life changing, I gotta tell you. So I started pulling up my shades in the morning and spending like, as the Experts tell you, 10 minutes, sort of worshiping the sun. And my sleep improved. I started getting great sleep. So, I mean, you can just do one thing and start to see the impact. So by getting better sleep, when I woke up in the morning after that, I wanted to exercise. And wanting to exercise gave me so much energy that when I came home, I wanted to put something healthy in my mouth and so on. So you can see the ripple effects.

Yeah. So one of the things that Lori and I use in our practice, and we use it personally as well, is the Oura ring. Do you use the aura ring yourself?

I don't because it was. First of all, I think it's great. I really do. I think it's terrific. But I actually have an apple watch that monitors sleep. And when I was using it all the time, I started getting very neurotic.

Okay, okay, fair enough.

Sleep. So I figured, let me just relax it a little bit and take it as it will come. And I actually take all my electronics, including my watch, and Put it in the other room.

Now when you sleep.

Yeah, that's just to know. I. Here's the thing. It was affecting my stress levels and my cortisol levels would go up and then that would keep me awake.

One of the things.

Very neurotic.

Yeah.

And I love the fact that you recognize that. And that's one of the things that we talk a lot with our patients about too, is that it is important. There are different seasons in your wellness journey. And what worked for you for a time doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work for you long term.

That's right.

So using devices may be good for awareness, but they may create that anxiety and recognizing that and being consistent about evaluating what's working and what's not working.

Yeah, there's no one size fits all solution. And you know, that's good news and bad news. It's kind of like you love to be able to do a cookie cutter kind of solution, but sorry, that's not possible anymore.

Well, things have definitely gotten more complex. Right. Our environment's more complex, our schedules are more complex. And with that comes the nuances of how do we navigate that, how do we make decisions around food, how do we make decisions around how we spend our time, what our purpose is in life? All of those things add up to how it affects our health.

Yeah, that's right. You know, our health span and our brain span, as well as our lifespan. I think all of those things are very much impacted by the various. By our life journey, by where we are in our life journey and how we can pivot at different moments in time.

So how has your life journey changed as it relates to the research that you did for your book? Like, what were things that you uncovered doing that research? Sleep was one of them. Were there other things that you're like, oh, wow, this is an area.

Honestly, I felt like as I was learning, I would make some changes. I didn't realize how much the health care system was designed for and by men, honestly. And with that in mind, you know, we think of women's health and we think of, oh, that's reproductive health. But in fact, women's health is like a whole spectrum of different things having to do with our hearts, our lungs, our everything. And yeah, just as an example, heart disease oftentimes shows up in women very different than men. And they're often misdiagnosed because, well, meaning physicians, I mean, it's not like they're not trying their hardest, but they don't recognize the fact that women show up with different symptoms of heart disease than men do. And you know, it's truly tragic. They can show up in the ER having a heart attack and it can be diagnosed as something that's a gastrointestinal, excuse me, a gastrointestinal type of issue. And that's, that's really wrong.

Right.

So that really surprised me. It surprised me also that the FDA not until 2016, I mean that just happened. It's less than a decade ago that they suggested, they didn't even insist that various pharmaceutical companies in fact test their products on women as well as men. So many of the prescription drugs we're taking today and non prescription as well, they're not tested on women at all. Learning that was just life changing for me. So those are two, you know, those are simple examples.

Yeah. So we're not just little men. Right. We can't extrapolate that research. And I think to your point, that may be why women show up in the ER with cardiovascular symptoms and get misdiagnosed, because the studies weren't done on women primarily.

That's exactly right.

You know, the training hasn't been gender specific, so to speak.

No, it really hasn't. You know, I, I think it's really kind of tragic. I was trying to experiment as part of my job with longevity drugs. And so I asked my doctor if I could try taking metformin, which you probably are well aware of the fact that that's like all the biohackers are like, oh, I'm doing metformin, it's a longevity drug. So hey, I wanted to try it. My doctor stood behind me and said, sure, give it a try, but let's be sure that you're tested pretty regularly. Well, I tried it for a week and I got so sick from this drug, gave me such bad gastrointestinal issues that I could barely believe it. It took me a couple weeks to get over it. And you know, metformin has forever, but it was never tested on women.

Right. So just one more example.

Just another example.

So we have our work to do.

Yes.

In regards to women's health.

Yeah, yeah, we do. It's, it's little. And what about with hormones? I mean, I'm sure you guys deal with that all the time. Most of the, I mean most of the information out there, it's starting to get better. Which is great news by, you know, some of the so called whistleblowers, women who are at celebrities like Halle Berry, who was misdiagnosed, she was going through her own perimenopause didn't know what was going on. It was misdiagnosed. And she ultimately was able to find out that it had to do with her hormones and, you know, simple solution to that. But she was misdiagnosed by a very well meaning, I'm sure, very expensive. Expensive and high end doctor. So this can happen to anyone.

Did I also hear you say that? And I, and I, I think I heard this correctly, is even those that are speaking out to longevity, the majority of the people in that space are men, correct?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look at, you know, go to a bookstore or. Well, Amazon is probably a better place and look at titles for longevity and you will see that most of it is written by men. And I wouldn't say specifically for men, but not for women. I mean, doesn't include women. And they don't designate, you know, to Dave Asprey's. He's actually a great example. He's married to a physician. And he began realizing that intermittent fasting doesn't have the same impact on women as men. And, you know, so he acknowledged that. I thought that was great. But many of them are just, you know, they're just not paying attention to the gender differences when it comes to not just health span and brain span, but when it comes to lifespan.

We had a very interesting conversation with our mindshare collaborative most recently about the nuances and the challenges, the benefits and the challenges, if you will, of coaching women clients, because there are unique differences even in how you coach them.

Like what?

Well, you know, I think first of all, and we have both male and women perspective in this mindshare collaborative. And I think one of the things that most of the coaches spoke to was that I think we are wired, if you will, to care for others. Yes, right. Often at the expense of our own selves. And so talking to them about taking time to get their exercise done, taking time to get up in the morning and embrace the sun, and it's like, no, I gotta get up, I gotta get the kids ready, I gotta get this done. And that can be really challenging because you're trying to get them to, you know, to make one change. And they're like, but, but, but. So that was one of the major challenges and the differences. Kelli, do you remember some of the other ones?

And I think to your point, a lot of women are trying to create cohesiveness within the home. And so if the husband is doing intermittent fasting in a certain way, she feels compelled to do the same. And it may not be working. For her, a lot of men are now embracing carnivore eating and, you know, they want to, you know, again, keeping cohesion within the home. Sometimes you'll see them follow along and do what their male counterpart wants to do. So we see those things commonly, you know, when we're trying to coach.

I am sure that that is the case. I mean, we women, we've done studies at age wave that demonstrates that women are willing to sacrifice their own financial well being as they get older in retirement to take care of others, to take care of their children, their parents. And, you know, the sad thing about that is that it puts their future in real jeopardy, both financially and from a health perspective. So, yeah, not a good idea. I mean, we women have to learn how to put up some boundaries.

Yes. Yes, we do.

And you went so far as to say that women need to be the leaders. I think you said leading this.

I do think that, yes. Hey, listen, we live longer than men and we also make 80% of all healthcare decisions in families. So we need to be the ones. Talk about cohesion, Kelly. We need to create the cohesion and take a leadership role. And many of us women are very. We're pleasers. We want to please, so we'll go along. Well, maybe we need to break that habit and recognize that not only are we not helping ourselves, we're not helping our families by doing that. We need to set the example, set the bar where it belongs, which is.

High, and it really impacts generations to come. So it's not just those that are immediate to us. Right? It really is. So we do need to do that. And taking that back and your book does such a good job at speaking to that. It's very empowering. Very empowering.

Yeah. I think empowering is a really important word. I think it's misused a lot. And sometimes I like, roll my eyes, I'm like, oh, empowering. But I do think that as we women live longer, that owning our health and recognizing that there are things we can do to improve it is tremendously empowering.

I have a huge passion for women's health and have my whole entire career. And, you know, I want to get to the place where, as you mentioned, that women are leading that force in the home with healthcare decisions, educating themselves, understanding their body. I feel like, to your point about Halle Berry, she didn't understand her body. She didn't understand where she was to ask the right questions and get the right help. And I feel like if we can educate women on their bodies at an earlier age, and educate them on what's to come with the changes and the power that they do have to navigate those changes. That's truly where the power is. But we need to start earlier.

I think you're right. I think you're right. I think that, you know, there's two things I would say on that. One is that the younger you can start. You know, My daughter is 37 years old. She's on this journey now. I mean, she's like, yeah, yeah, you're right. I need more protein than men. I need to be eating protein earlier in the day. Just little things like that. But she's starting to own it. But on the other hand, women who are in their 70s or 80s, they need to realize it is never too late to make changes to improve your health, to extend your health span so it better matches your lifespan and, you know, and frankly, your brain span. Yes, we can, you know, that exercise, the impact that it can have. I mean, and it's not just, you know, people say, oh, walk 30 minutes a day. Now, for sure, that is a great place to get started. But, you know, we all know it's about muscle strengthening. It's about. Some of the scientists that I spoke to said that muscle mass should be a new vital sign, similar to our blood pressure or our heart rate. And losing muscle mass can start as early as in your 30s. So you want to do those strength training exercises, and it can actually increase the size of your hippocampus. And that's where we store memories.

So in our practices, Maddie, you'll be happy to know Lori and I both use body composition as a vital sign.

Oh, that's great.

Every single visit, we're looking at that body composition because we know that muscle mass is money in the bank for both men and women. And it does correlate to the size of the brain. And the size of the hippocampus is really important when it comes to memory and keeping that executive function strong as we age. So you said it. It's never too late to start. The other thing that I do, and I know Lori does this too in her practice, is I watch people as they get up from. And if they don't, if they get up from the chair, using their arms, if they have to have support, I'm like, we're working on that. We're gonna fix that. You need to be able to get up.

There are tests in the book that are similar to that. Yeah, you know, the flamingo test, for one. You know, there are a variety of tests that can Be easy to administer to yourself and they can speak volumes to your health and well being.

So, Maddie, describe the flamingo test.

The flamingo test is when you get down on the ground. Now here's the thing. Let me just preface this. I have had a double hip replacement. So doing this is not an easy thing for me. But I have learned to do it by really using my glutes a little bit more effectively. So it's getting, you know, standing cross legged to start with your feet crossed, sitting down cross legged without using your arms as much as possible. Every time you touch the ground, using any part of your body other than your legs, not a good thing. And then getting back up the same way. And it's an easy thing. And you know, practice it for a while and you get better. And again, because I have tight hips from having a double hip replacement because I was born with hip dysplasia, it took me a while to do.

Yeah. So don't give up. If you can't do it the first time, don't give up. Keep trying, right? Work on it. You can gain that strength back.

I know you really can.

And I think loss is such a slow and insidious decline often that people don't really realize the degree to which they lose functionality. Had a very interesting self reflection of that because, you know, Covid really led to a lot of sitting at a computer, looking at the screen and prolonged period of time. And with that exercise kind of declined too at the same time. So sitting more and exercise declining. It's taken me quite a bit because, you know, my nature is to want to exercise, but realizing that, you know, when you only have a little bit of time, you got to find what's right for you. Got back to it and was like, wow, I can't believe I lost the ability to do that. Or I had such. And it's a head game at that point because, you know, my personality is. I want to be good at as many things as I possibly can. So, you know, to go to pilates and to feel really, really weak is hard for me. But realizing again, you don't know what you don't know. So you can do those tests. And I'm super glad that Kelly and I do offer those in the clinic, but those functional where you, a person sees it doing a test just like that. Try it.

I think that, you know, there's two different schools of thought on how to make change happen. And I really. This was not something. You guys are much smarter about this than I am because I'm not a coach. And so I spoke with a lot of different experts about this, and there was a doctor at the Mayo Clinic who, Dr. Stephen Kopecki, who is. He himself went through heart. He had a heart, he had a stroke. And he got really, wow, this is horrible. Now I know I've got to go into a prevention mode. And so he actually switched from being a surgeon, a cardiac surgeon, to being a preventative medicine expert. Anyway, Dr. Kopecki believes, like one, start with one thing, it's going to inspire you and motivate you to try other things on the other hand, and that's, you know, preventive mode, you know, like for you guys and for many of your clients. But if your clients are struggling with a particular set of realities, like let's say they had a stroke or they have heart disease and they want to try to actually reverse that, it is possible to do. But Dr. Dean Ornish, who, he told me, no, you can't start with one thing. Do everything. You need to have purpose in your life. You need to have social connections, sleep, all these pieces of the holistic recipe need to be included. And within weeks, you're going to feel so much better that you're going to want to continue. So those are two different schools of thought.

They are. And that's, you know, what I love about what we do, is the individual nature to which it's not cookie cutters is meeting a patient like ours where they're at, because some of them don't have the bandwidth. You know, they. They are stressed out, burned out and inflamed, and they have very little energy. So we are having to budget their energy in the most important things to make change, and it also changes seasonally. I had an interesting conversation with a coach today. Is that what's easy now, exercise may be easy for you, food may be easy for someone else. Right now, that easy may change. You know, I've gone through periods of time, food was really easy for me, and then it became very hard for me. So, you know, it is. It's meeting them where they're at and really coaching them with that one change or what's going to have the most impact. And I think you kind of laid that out in your book too, about things that had, you know, the greatest impact and maybe gave some, some. Some feedback of where to start. Right?

That's exactly right. Yeah, I think it really. And also, if you fall off the wagon, which happens to all of us, not to get discouraged, to just pick yourself up and get back on because you're, you're entitled to have some missteps.

That's what life's all about, right?

That's right. Learning from our mistakes.

Learning from our mistakes.

Another, by the way, thing that I was a big learning for me was the actual impact of drinking alcohol on your health and well being. I was, I knew that, you know, you don't want to like, binge drink or have, you know, drink a lot every night. But I was under the misguided impression that drinking a glass of red wine at night was actually good for you. And having two, not so bad. But I've since learned that, in fact, I wouldn't go so far to say is that it's toxic, but it's not good for you. And one of the researchers that I spoke to was a neuroscientist based in France, and I asked her, well, how do you deal with this? I mean, it's so part of your culture to drink a glass of wine with your dinner. And I thought her answer was a really cool one. She said, you know, you have to balance things. I mean, I get so much joy out of having just a small glass of red wine with my dinner that it sort of is worth it. It's worth it. So I'm, you know, I think that's a good message to hear too.

Yeah. I don't know that we have any studies that tell us how much alcohol for a female is safe. Right.

They generally say 5 ounces of a glass of wine or, I don't know, wine is what they usually refer to, but. And not to do it more than once or twice a week.

Right. Yeah, yeah.

And we're beginning to see by tracking heart rate variability that you're exactly right. That it is very hard to improve heart rate variability and resilience with alcohol.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's, I mean, that's part two. I'm Italian, so I mean, we grew up.

Right.

With a glass of wine in our table. You know, at 14, it was just juice.

That's right. Yeah.

Breaking the habits.

Yeah. So, you know, so that's a little bit. That was a wake up call for me. I mean, I was at an event a couple nights ago that was being put on, I guess I can say this, by the Buck Institute for Aging and Longevity Research. I'm sure you're familiar with them. And they were serving wine and people were. It was actually quite good wine. I had a couple. What I did is I just had a couple sips, was delicious. But I was talking to some of the people they were a little bit self conscious about it and they were saying, oh, this is going to take three weeks off of my life, but so what? I'm going to enjoy it.

Yeah. So mindset, right, what we tell ourselves that taking three weeks off of my life probably isn't the right message to be telling your body when you're consuming something.

Right, exactly, exactly. You're right. I mean, because one of the things that I love is this whole idea of the positivity effect because it doesn't cost any money and it doesn't really take any time. It's just a matter of like switching your mind into a more positive attitude. And it's all based on research, longitudinal research done in the United States by Dr. Becca Levy of Yale. And she, according to her studies, if you feel more positive about your own aging, it can add up to seven and a half years to your life. That's incredible. And more studies have been done that show it also expands your brain span and your health span. And to me, that's, wow, okay, I can do that. I can feel positive. Absolutely.

You're just saying embracing just aging at as a positive thing in and of itself improves healthspan.

That's exactly right. But we know that there's a lot of ageism out there. I mean, it's so pervasive. It's everywhere you turn. The workplace, the pop culture. People call older adults the olds. I mean, it's definitely a put down. And so we need to try to change that, that whole concept of aging.

So what do you think the antidote to that is?

Okay, so I think I try to do one of them, which in the beginning was very hard to do, but it's gotten better. And that is to put my age out there. I think a lot of women, I think women have two things to deal with. They have ageism and lookism. Ageism, we all know what that is. But lookism, we women are. We're judged a lot by how we look. Yes. And, and that just doesn't feel fair. Traditionally and historically, women were valued for their fertility and their beauty. And you know, maybe it's time to change that. Maybe it's time to say, you know, we're so much more than that. We're smart, we're funny, we're savvy, we're empowered. And it's time for us to not only own our own age, but to say, just because I'm 60, 70, 80 or beyond that I'm not over the hill. In fact, I may be just coming into My own. Yep.

Chronological age is just a number.

That's exactly right.

Yeah. And I think we can get stuck in that because, you know, I was the young practitioner getting out of school early and I worked in a male dominated industry, you know, medicine. And I forever heard that, well, you are 68. What do you, you expect or you are? And I just wanted to just backhand them. I knew that was not appropriate. At least I didn't do it. But I did because I, you know, I thought to myself, you know, one day you're going to be that and I mean, are you going to accept that? You know, someone, your doctor telling you that? I wouldn't want my doctor telling me that. I want them to look at me and say, you know, what kind of life do you envision? What do you want? Where do you want to go? What kind of life? You know, what are you pursuing and how can I help you get there versus I mean, what do you expect?

Sad, right? Laurie, you are 100% right. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. How can you help me navigate my life so that I can have one of these holistic ingredients which is have a sense of purpose. And we know that having a sense of purpose actually can add years to our life and make you healthier longer. And you know, that to me is very inspiring. And it doesn't have to be like, oh, I'm reinventing myself or I'm having a second career or I'm just starting a non profit. I mean, it can be babysitting for your grandchildren or it can be, you know, walking your dog. It doesn't have to be something huge. Yep.

And we learned that in the blue zone studies. Right. In centenarians, you know, just that that sense of purpose is so important and belonging and that, you know, now we know loneliness is the, you know, is, is equal to that of smoking.

That's right. Yes. Loneliness is the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Wow, that's crazy.

That is incredible. Honestly.

Yeah. And you know, you don't have to do so much. I mean, you don't have to like, I mean, this is great that we're getting to communicate via zoom, but you know, if we were in person, it would be even better.

Yes.

Because making that eye contact and you know, maybe touching it has a very positive effect on our whole immune system.

I love what you said about women hold the power to change the narrative of longevity and aging. And I just, I mean, I wrote that down in a couple of places. I've even put that up on my wall in the office just to remind me of that. Because we do. We are. I've always said that women are the catalyst of their home. I've always spoke with, you know, my women patients to let them know that they're the catalyst of their home, but to know that they really do have the power to change all of this. And, you know, it's a collective. Right. We all have to do that together, inspire each other and encourage each other to do that.

Yeah, I agree completely. And you know, I think that some women feel, rather than feeling cooperative with other women, feel competitive with other women. And I think that that's, that's the kind of thinking that isn't going to help us move forward.

You're right. Stinking thinking.

I love it.

Yeah.

And it's also a fixed mindset. Getting back to kind of what you said is, I think we do and have grown up in households where, you know, it was just, this is kind of, this is genetically, this is kind of what you are predestined to have. And we get stuck in that untruth, if you will, and, and, and not pursue outside of that. So it's a joy and a pleasure to have, you know, been able to even read your book and took the time. I just want to know, how long did it take you to write your book? I'm curious.

Oh, wow. Well, you know, as I said, I've been in this field of aging and longevity for close to 40 years. I, my aging and I have a great agent. My agent insisted that I write a very in depth proposal that was sort of like a roadmap to the book itself. And that took me like almost, I would say 18 months to two years. And then, but then when I, and I was very lucky and again had a great agent, we had 17 interested publishers.

Wow.

Once I aligned with Mayo Clinic Press and part of the reason I wanted to align with them was that their brand identity was something that I thought would be very useful and helpful and help get the message out there. And, and they've been great to work with. So I'm really, really lucky there. It only took me a year.

Oh, wow, that's incredible. Especially as much work as it went into the, the statistics of the book, all the demographics in the book. That was a lot.

Almost 100 interviews with the cutting edge resources that I could. It was pretty, it was a very fun filled year, but it was exciting.

So, Maddie, before we end our time together, one of the things that your book inspired me personally to do was to have some really Hard conversations with my husband about long term financial planning. Right. Because he's older than me. He's a little bit older than me. And if I'm going to live longer than him in age and he's already older than me, then that may mean I spend a lot of my last years alone. And so it forced us to go back and look at the finances and look at how the investments are and to make sure that those last years, if I do happen to spend those alone, that I'm protected. And so I just want to thank you for that because otherwise I don't know that I would have thought much about having that conversation and looking at that in depth like we have been looking at it in the last few months. So thank you for that.

It's great that you're doing that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, people are sometimes surprised to see that I included finances in this holistic recipe, but it's a really important place to put some energy first. You know, getting financially literate, learning what, all the difference. I mean, there's so much jargon in the world of finance and sometimes I think they put that jargon in there as a barrier to people so that, oh no, this is so complicated. You could never understand this. But you know, learning is step number one and number two, you know, you, Kelly, just, you're on the right track. I mean, having the difficult conversations, which, you know, they're never fun, but once you air them out, you feel so much better. On average, women do live longer than men, often outliving their spouse, partner, and oftentimes put in a position where they are spending those last years alone. And when it comes to the cost of health care, it's pretty dramatically expensive for women because they may end up in long term care for the last, last bunch of years or months or days of their lives.

Right.

So the bouquet reality is I'm, I'm glad that you included financial in there. And it's, you know, we say, you know, wellness at the center. Right. But it's spiritual, it's emotional, it's physical, it's financial, it's all of those. And in all of those areas, you have to talk about financial because we know the cost of chronic disease. I mean, that is, that is clearly researched. We know what it costs to be sick. And so if you're not talking about it, the reality is, is you may not have the dollars available to take care of yourself or be taken care of should that need exist.

And you know, again, worrying about finances, like, can stress your life, be a Stressor.

Yes. Yes. So there's a bouquet of things that we could be doing that Maddie highlights in the book. I do encourage you guys to get a copy of the book. You can listen to it on audio or you can get a copy of the book in print, but I would encourage you to do that because she does talk about the bouquet of things that we could be doing to help improve our overall health long term. And a lot of times the entry point for people is diet and exercise. We've talked about those two things today, but there's so much more that we can be doing on a daily basis. And some of those things are small, little bitty things like being outside, like connecting with our family and friends. Like, they're fun things to do. And oftentimes we let the busyness of life get in the way of doing those things consistently. So I would encourage you to read and then bring those questions back to your functional medicine provider and helping you navigate your wellness plan, because we want you guys to live a life of resilience and be strong even throughout the rest of your life.

Well, thank you so much, Maddie. It was such a pleasure getting the opportunity to talk to you again. I know we met you like we sat on the floor and we were so inspired. We've got to talk to her again, but thank you. I know your schedule is super busy.

Thank you guys for having me and keep up doing the great work that you're doing.

Thank you so much. We look forward to potentially seeing you again at a 4M in the future. Absolutely. The Synergy Podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor patient relationship is formed. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions.