The Missing Piece of Health? Your Money Mindset

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Welcome, synergy listeners. Today we are bridging wealth and wellness with Jason Woodall, founder and financial strategist behind Woodall Wealth Management, and his assistant, Ellie. With over two decades of experience helping families and business owners build lasting financial legacies, Jason is passionate about more than just dollars and cents. He he's on a mission to help people create lives of purpose, peace, and prosperity. We often talk about physical and emotional health, but what about financial health? In this episode, we explore the profound ways that money mindset and long term planning intersect with our stress levels, our relationships, our career choices, and even our physical well being. Jason brings clarity and compassion to a topic that's often overwhelming, helping us understand how financial empowerment can become a cornerstone of overall wellness. We are so glad you're here. Grab a cup of tea and lean into the conversation.

Well, welcome back, synergy listeners. We are so excited that you are here to join Lori and I again for another fabulous conversation. Last year, we had the privilege of having Maddie on. She was the author of Ageless Aging and the co founder of Age Wave. And Maddie shared with with us some insights about aging. She shared some good news, she shared some bad news, and she shared some really encouraging news. So I wanted to kind of recap that a little bit, encourage you to go back to September 2024 when we released her podcast, because that'll set the stage of some of what we're gonna talk about today and why it's so important for Lori and I to get this message out. So the good news that Maddie shared with us is we're in the middle of a longevity revolution. We're living longer, and that's amazing, right? I But the bad news is that oftentimes we're living longer in poor health. There's a disparity between our health span and our lifespan, and we want to figure out how to close that gap. We want to live long and be vibrant and vital and enjoy our lifespan as much as our health span. Then the encouraging news is a lot of what we've been led to believe that's just genetic is completely modifiable. Your lifestyle does matter, and Lori and I believe that part of your lifestyle is your financial health. You know, how you view your finances, how stressed you are about your finances really matters in the overall health picture. So we have with us today some experts that we want to dig into this concept of financial wellness and really give you some inspiring things to take home, some nuggets that we can really implement in our lifestyle starting today. So, Jason and Ellie, thank you so much for joining us and giving us your time today.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you. Excellent. So, Jason, we got to start out with you and Ellie asking you what inspired your journey into financial planning. Like, was this something you always thought you would be doing or you were surprised when you landed there?

Yeah. So I don't think there's any kid that sits around and goes, yeah, I'm going to work with numbers all day long and, you know, money and that, that's, that's my goal. Normally it's, you know, I want to work with animals and whales and all those fun things, and it just didn't, didn't quite work out that way. So I started my career working for a national bank. And I realized that as I was helping folks come in and do a variety of things as it related to their finances, that I started to get a lot of satisfaction personally out of helping people. So, you know, when someone would come in and they would need help with budgeting something or planning something or trying to figure out retirement or, you know, where they can, they can find more money, you know, to, to go on a trip or whatever the case may be, helping folks achieve those goals really had a huge impact for me. And over time I realized that that's important, you know, on top of a livelihood and, you know, whatever the, it is that, that the money that you're, you're making or those things being, being happy with, with what you do makes, makes a huge difference. And that's why I wound up sticking with it for so many years, which has been about 28 years now, so that it was really unexpected, to be honest.

So what exactly do you do right now, Jason? Like, how do you work with your clients?

Yeah, so it's a pretty wide scope. So we are registered investment advisors as well as general brokers through a broker dealer. So basically what that means is financial planners and investment advisors. So depending on the client, the age, the goal, all of those things would depend on what role we're taking in that relationship. It could be something as simple as education planning, putting a plan together to help parents figure out how to send their children to school. It could be in depth retirement planning for someone who's in their 50s, where they're not quite there yet, but they really need to buckle down and get some hard numbers on paper to see where they're going to achieve their goals. So in general, it's overall financial planning that encompasses all facets.

That's excellent. And then, Ellie, you work alongside of Jason. What is your role with Him, Yes.

So I am on the client services, administrative side of things. My background is actually, like he mentioned, I didn't end up on this path originally, but my background's in nonprofit and customer service and so was able to connect a lot of those passions into this field as well, which has been really amazing. So I'm, I focus on the administrative, like I said, client services side and really building those long term relationships with clients and being able to take care of their needs and help them, you know, pursue their goals. So it's been very fulfilling.

Absolutely. It sounds very, very rewarding. So I'd imagine that there are times that you both are. You have that person in front of you that didn't necessarily plan on being sick. Right? They didn't plan on being sick. And they're now faced with what that's like from a financial perspective. Are you seeing that more these days? The same less. What are you guys seeing?

It's so it's pretty consistent and has been for some time. And what you tend to see is where the folks that we wind up helping tend to run in extremes. And what I mean by that is you'll see where there are some clients that are very goal oriented. They have their own game plan, they have a plan already in place. They know kind of what they're, where they're trying to go. And then you have the other side where, you know, sometimes life throws curveballs and that, that's just how it works. And they're needing help, keep working their way through those challenges. And those numbers, if you will, have actually been pretty consistent throughout my career. What we have been seeing though, is a heightened level of just general anxiety and stress, specifically as it relates to finances. And it seems to have spiked more certainly coming out of COVID which in my opinion, I believe that the whole Covid experience, if you will, kind of drove home the uncertainty around what can happen financially in a very short period of time and if you're not properly prepared, how much of an impact that can have. And I think that that, in my opinion, I think that just really spiked, you know, folks, folks, stress levels in general.

So it sounds very similar to that in medicine. You have people that are very, very proactive, right? Kelly nodding her head Absolutely right. We see that proactive approach to their health, doing everything they poss right now to do their very best to avert those things that could happen. And then the reactive, which are like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm good until we're not. And you know, we see that in medicine just like you are seeing and saying now in mental health.

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We can't wait to walk this journey with you. Now back to the episode. So, Jason, how do you speak about that aspect of stress that happens with financial stress and how it impacts their health? Like how, how do those conversations go? Is that well received when you're talking about that, or is that something that they don't typically recognize or want to talk about?

Yeah, and so the, the, the variance is as wide as the personalities, right? So it very much depends on the person. Their experience, their background, their upbringing has a huge impact on it. Where they happen to be at in life certainly has a huge impact on it. What our goal and our primary mission is is we have to figure out where that balance is. So we have to try and adapt and modify ourselves to be able to have comfortable conversations, regardless if they're rah rah, great ones or maybe not so great ones. Right. But you still need to have that conversation. And through the years and just through experience and working with so many, a variety of so many people, we've been able to tailor ourselves to where we can sit down and have those conversations. Really try and get the person in front of us comfortable with having those conversations. And that's a challenge just depending on the circumstance because we have folks that may be in front of us because we have a gentleman who was diagnosed with cancer, beat it. But the backside of it was really tough for him from a financial standpoint. We have folks sometimes that are coming out of divorces. All these different things that could be happening and we're here to help them. It's just guiding them through it. But starting the conversation and that part of it can be uncomfortable. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

That's where I'm sure Ellie's personality, she has just, you can tell just by her demeanor probably a little bit sometimes easier to connect or just having the time too to connect with them. You know, when it comes to money, I can imagine that trust. Some people just like in healthcare have had bad experiences too. And it probably takes a little bit of time to develop a trusting relationship where you, you can have those conversations with them and they know that you're there to not judge either the decisions that have been made, but really to help them.

Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of times people come in and they are aware of the toll that that stress is, is putting them under. And so we can meet them with empathy in that and validate that experience. And then something that I love about our role is that we can come in with a solution focused approach as well and come alongside of them and help them really make up, develop a plan to move forward and alleviate some of that stress that's having that negative impact. So it's amazing to see meet them where they are, but then also be able to walk with them forward and not stay in that place that's really having that adverse effect on their mental, physical health, whatever it may be.

What do you think are the biggest factors that keep someone stuck in their current financial position?

So I would tend to say fear is the biggest one. And it's, it can be overwhelming certainly. And that is the biggest struggle that, that we have seen with anyone. You know, just really taking charge of their, their financial well being. And what tends to happen a lot of times is it becomes a negative feedback loop. Right. So you know, let's say someone so a little later or farther in life, you know, let's say fifth is just pick something and they're getting closer to retirement. Maybe they think or feel they haven't done enough to prepare for that and they start to have Feelings where it's going to be difficult for them to. To catch up, so why bother? Or they're uncertain as to who to talk with because they're embarrassed. You know, all of those types of feelings. And that is one of. One of the biggest barriers that we run into. The irony of it is when we do wind up interacting with those folks, many times they're actually closer than they think. And the relief that they have after going through a planning process or developing a retirement strategy is it's very satisfying to see because you can just see the weight lift off them. But those initial steps and reaching out and overcoming those initial fears is certainly the biggest struggle that we've seen.

So Lori and I often talk about all or none thinking, and that's what you're describing. It's kind of like, I don't want to look at it. I'm afraid to look at it, and there's nothing I can do about it anyway. Instead of really being able to look in the mirror and see where we are, take some logical steps to make some changes, which is, to your point, oftentimes they're not as far away as they think they are. So I love that.

Yeah, correct. And the other part of it, too, is we see where folks get comfortable with being uncomfortable, meaning that they're just used to thinking or believing a certain thing where they have the ability to affect change as it relates to that, and. But because they've done the same things for so long or they thought the same thing for so long or whatever the case may be, that it just becomes comfortable in doing that. And those are things that folks can certainly change and change very easily. And I think that's missed a lot.

Of times, and we see that a lot in healthcare as well. There's this slow, insidious decline in overall health, and they become. This is their new norm.

Right, Czar.

What's that?

It's just aging, right?

I'm just.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

And so they get. They get stuck in that. And I'm glad you qualified. The fear side of things. You know, when you first said fear, I started questioning is, is that, you know, fear of, you know, making a bad choice or fear of choosing the wrong person to align themselves with? Fear of, you know, fill in the blank. I would imagine that fear probably takes numerous multifactorial reasons why people fear, you named, you know, one or two of them. But are there any other, like, fears that. That they. That they would commonly have that would stand in the way of them reaching out for help?

Well, Again, in my opinion, I think it primarily leads back more to a feeling of embarrassment or a feeling of not accomplishing what, what they feel they should have, you know, up to this point. And there are millions and millions of people in. And what I always tell folks is you're never going to be at the best spot that you may think you should be at. You're certainly not at the worst. It's somewhere in between. Everything's always somewhere in between. And that's okay, you know, where our job or advisor's job is to get you farther along in that process. And the challenge is getting clients to, quite frankly, just start by reaching out and asking for help, you know, and having those conversations and just starting the process and taking that first step.

And I've seen that a lot just in the conversations we have in relationship to health care, because too often in even the examination room, working with our clients, you know, finances come up because they are trying to figure out how they are going to economically manage what needs to happen. So it happens a lot. Would you say male versus female? Is there a difference between the. To in respect to willingness to ask for help? How often is it the wife or the female that reaches out versus the husband or the male?

So that. Let me be careful here.

I mean, you are underrepresented in case.

My wife happens to watch. You know, let me structure this answer very carefully. That what I would say is as far as the first step in reaching out, it's about the same, however, how spouses or male or female approach finances. Historically, what we see is completely different. Females are more conservative. In my experience, that's just what we've seen through many years. They quite frankly, want more detailed planning. They need a lot more input and, and they want their, their feeling of security to be significantly higher than what we see historically with, with males who tend to kind of freewheel it more. Right. And that, that's pretty consistent and has been throughout my career for sure. The, the trick is getting the balance. And this is again, another thing that kind of goes back to creating a formal plan where, especially with spouses, if you, if you have one. And a lot of times this can also be related back to spenders and savers. Right. If you have a spouse that, that's an aggressive spender and the other spouse is aggressive saver, there's a lot of conflict in that relationship as it relates to finances. And, and one of our jobs is to help find a balance and help find a middle ground and, and develop a hard plan where they can Both be held, you know, hold each other accountable and, and help to, to develop that balance which will u help them financially overall achieve their goals.

Yeah. So Jason, can we talk about why that is why women would be the ones wanting more, more of a conservative approach? You know, I think women live longer than men, right. And oftentimes we're concerned about being left behind and then we've got to figure it out. Right. I just had this conversation with my husband a few months ago because he's a little bit older than me and then statistically speaking, I should live longer. Right. And so I'm like, we need to make sure that I'm going to be okay if that happens.

Right.

And I think we just have a higher need for security in general. I think that's, you know, baseline. We all, we want to feel secure as a female. And so I think there's layers of reasons why we would want a more detailed plan and more, you know, more assurance that things are going to be okay. And we probably, you have more needs, financially speaking, like getting our hair done and our nails done.

You know, all.

The girl things that we want to be able to do.

And it's, you know, that's a really good point as it relates to what we've seen from generations, generationally and unfortunately we still have not gotten to a point in this country where the male, female pay is equalized. So what you tend to see is where the husband tends to make more, you know, historically through, throughout a marriage. And that's one of, one of the driving reasons is because of the fact that, you know, the women will outlive the husband by quite a bit. And our planning, we tended to start with a 10 year number. Normally it winds up being a 15 year number, which is a huge variance from a longevity standpoint. And if you are losing that, that primary breadwinner, even if you are in retirement, it does have a significant impact. So security changes pretty, pretty significantly. If there's a pension, that changes pretty significant. So, you know, there's a lot of things that feed into it, but ultimately it does come back to the longevity certainly.

So how do you guys objectively measure financial wellness?

So it is subjective certainly. And one of the, one of the things that we are able to do is, are able to quantify certain aspects of it. So as an example, you know, let's say we're doing retirement planning and you're, the goal is to hit a specific number. Well, we can, we can rationalize that based upon numbers. So we can say, hey, you're in great shape or, you know, we may need to play a little catch up here. So a lot of times the numbers can definitely quantify things. There are things that you aren't able to quantify. So some of those things are actually directly related to health. One of the biggest gaps that we struggle with as a society is filling the health care gap. Certainly if folks are retiring early and waiting to hit Medicare and how do you fill that gap? Or even if you are on Medicare, if you do have a significant medical setback, what does that mean from a financial standpoint? And a lot of those things are definitely unknowns. And you do have to, you know, quite frankly, just kind of guess at some things. Now they're educated guesses certainly, and you can use statistics and surveys and, you know, things that, that historically have happened and all of that information to make those educated guesses. But that is one of the struggles is as it relates to, to the, the medical side on the planning process.

And I think, you know, I've seen Ellie as she's delivered and both of you delivering reports to people where they can actually tangibly see that on paper too. And so that kind of brings me to that question of, you know, we're talking all the time about wellness plans as a whole. And one of the things our language is around, what are you doing daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly, to live well. So from a financial wellness standpoint, do you guys ever, you know, sit down and are your plans called financial wellness or do you have rather than like the in between when you lay out a plan, do you have strategic meetings in between to really check back in on that plan? Are they working a plan?

Like Jason was saying, it's so customized to the individual person's goals. So what we would be measuring and looking at would be in direct relation to those goals. I think practically speaking, though, yes, having a plan that has consistent and regular points of contact is really beneficial. It helps the client know where they're at. It helps, you know, just keep everything cohesive as far as if there's questions, if there's changes. There's a lot of practical things we can do as well. For example, having automatic contributions made into your retirement account so you're not having to think about that bi weekly contribution. It just goes automatically. Things like that, where you can hit those weekly, monthly kind of those habits help those habits become so automated that they don't add a lot of extra mental load to your busy day already. So things like that, quarterly reviews, semiannual reviews, whatever, again, customized to the client's goals, needs, but regular check ins to touch base with them and evaluate progress and all of that and help assist them. If there is something that we're not seeing, the what the. If you know, you're not seeing the progress you're hoping to. How can we adjust things? How can we make it more, more functional?

Is that standard though in the industry or is that just something that you all do in your practice? Because here that are listening that may not be in reach of you all and we want them to be able to walk away and go is this something I should be expecting?

So yeah. So in my opinion I do think it's something that certainly should be expected. The delivery of it varies widely, right? So depending on the firm you're dealing with, the advisor set that you're dealing with, some firms have set time frames where they, they just do two reviews a year and that's just what they do. Some are more fluid where it just depends on what's happening in the marketplace or the, the client's personality type and that will drive more of how often those check ins happen and, and that we tend to fall more on that side of the ledger versus a very structured, you know, two, two times a year and that's it. As an example, earlier this year the markets got, got, got a little, a little haywire right? As, as some information was coming out around tariffs and things of that nature. And we were doing a lot more communicating and checking in during that time period certainly because it was needed and, and the reassurance was needed and, and that that matters certainly. The other thing I did want to mention is a lot of times when, especially when you're looking at finances and retirement planning and investing and all of those things, a lot of folks will have an image of like their financial plan is kind of a stuck plan and it's not, it is extremely fluid and it's more like a living document and it is constantly being updated and adjusted. And because it's life and you know, things happen and something could happen medically, a surprise kid could show up, right? I had that happen in my life. I mean there's just so many things that happen that you need to have the flexibility built into whatever the plan is and not have stress or worry when things happen because it's assumed things are going to happen and that's okay. But you know, don't ever go into any of these plannings or when you're projecting things and think, you know, this is going to be it and if I do xxxx I'm going to get here because somewhere along that path, the path is going to take a hard right and you'll just have to adapt to that. And that's okay. And that's normal.

And that's why you have people in your life like yourselves that you can come to and really hash it out, work through it, talk about it. Because oftentimes I believe we, in that thinking when we're, particularly when we're stressed, we can't see the forest for the trees. We have to have someone who knows our big picture, who knows where we want to go. Same thing with healthcare, knows where we want to go and can come alongside of us in that when we really can't see it, to help navigate through those tough times. So I would imagine, and I'm going to make this assumption that it could be very dangerous to not have a financial plan. Would you agree with that?

I would. And it's mainly based around just the uncertainty and what that uncertainty brings. And I, I cannot stress enough that, that having some form of a plan, preferably a very detailed plan, takes a level of uncertainty, which ultimately leads to a very high level of stress over a long period of time, and it removes that. And it can be so uplifting and it does have just a huge physical impact over the long term. Certainly we have seen. I have dealt with clients who have stressed to the point where they've come in the office and they're literally losing clumps of hair because they're just so stressed and their anxiety level is so high based around their fear that they're not going to be able to retire at some point. And that's very unfortunate because it's not needed and it's very easy to do these things. And even if you feel that you're not ready or wanting to work with someone, there are so many tools online that everyone has access to where you can really do it yourself, but at least do something because it makes a world of difference.

So what you're talking about, Jason, is setting up some financial discipline, right? Setting up some ways of putting away money. Whether you do that on your own or whether you, you reach out to an investor, but starting some type of practice. If we're talking to our listeners that are young and they're, you know, they're just getting started, they're trying to figure out what is the priority. Are there some rules of thumb of how much they should be putting back or investing on a monthly basis?

So the, the average opinion that, that you will hear, that's Pretty consistent is, is your, your work journey. If you're able to save anywhere between 15 and 20%, however combination you're able to do it, then you will be very secure by the time you, you reach retirement. Now, of course those numbers are going to adjust depending on where you're at in that journey. Right. So, so someone who's in their mid-40s, you know, May need to adjust that a little bit, just depending on, on where they're at. But especially if you're young, starting out, 15 to 20% is a great number. And the, the other misconception is that doesn't mean that you may, may be having to save that 15 to 20%. If you have an employer plan, a 401k plan where an employer is matching 5%, well now you're only saving 10 because your employer is kicking in the other five. Right. So there's a number of ways that you can accomplish it, but that is certainly the, a great way to start if you wanted to. Kind of just some easy numbers.

Yeah, I just sat with one of our new employees, 27 years old, just joined us and going over her 60 day review, I was like, have you started your investment plan yet? And she's like, no, I just haven't. I said stop right now. This is what we're doing next. Set it up. It's matched. There's no reason why you shouldn't be investing in at least getting the match piece to that. And you're saying 15 to 20%. And if that, you start your life that way, that just becomes what you do and you learn to live on the rest.

Right.

Instead of getting all of your expenses in place and then having to figure out what do I have left? That's typically how we do a financial plan at that age.

So yeah, most times at that age there is no financial plan. Right. Because there's a lot of other thoughts going on that's not related to that.

And 15 to 20%. Just to be clear, is that on gross or is that on net proceedings that they.

So it would wind up being, usually it would wind up being gross because the vast majority of folks are doing it through a retirement plan. So even though it is gross, it doesn't have as big of an impact as a net number because you're getting the tax savings if it's a traditional type of 401k plan. So you know, normally you would want to use something around your gross number, assuming you're going to get some tax relief as you're going through the process.

So you know, we work with a variety of different client ages. And so how do you advise people to balance their saving for the future while living well today?

Yeah, so this comes up a lot, right. And I'll hear couples talk in our office and one will say, well, you know, we have a lot of fun on this boat. And the other will say it's a complete waste of money. And then the debate begins. Right. And that's certainly a difficult balance to achieve because we ultimately do need to live our lives and have enjoyment while still trying to secure our future. So what we always recommend to folks, this is where budgeting has a huge impact. Regardless of what stage you are in your life cycle, if you don't have some semblance of a budget or have looked at some semblance, you know, to create a budget, you're missing out, quite frankly, because what it can do is it can provide a structure where. And it's also a relief where at the end of the day, once you, you tick mark all, all of your major goals, which you. Which again down the road is going to relieve just a ton of stress and anxiety. But at the end of it, it'll give you the number that you can spend and be, be confident in spending and have fun spending because you know, it's not going to have a detrimental impact over your long term goals. So we really encourage folks to definitely do a budget. If you're married, we very much encourage to do a budget together because that does also help again, bridge the gap between the spenders and savers and kind of force couples into compromising on paper and then they can hold each other accountable. So really starting with that budgeting process is how you begin to balance saving enough for your major goals while still being able to live your life and have fun and do things that you want to do.

Today I had to laugh because for a moment. Sorry. I got this picture of you and Ellie having to be mediators.

There's a lot of mediation going on, certainly now Ellie is certainly the best in our office at this certainly. But there's definitely a lot of mediation going on. And that's okay because that's part of the process. And I think that's one of the other things that a lot of couples will get stuck on is sometimes if there's not an agreement, it's just not ever addressed. And that can be not so good from a financial standpoint. So there are folks like us out there that can act as mediators and help bridge that gap.

And that's a really Good point and I'm glad you brought it up. Absolutely, Lori.

And I believe that your health is your largest asset because without your health you really can't do much of anything else. Right. If your brain's not working well, if you're not mobile, that creates its own set of challenges and expenses. And so is there a rule of thumb about investing in your health, health through your lifespan? That would be helpful for our listeners to understand a little bit better.

So it's very much individual driven because everyone's health is different. Right. Where you're at in life in general, age also has a huge impact. One of the things we do encourage is if it is going to have a positive benefit physically health mentally, then it moves higher up on the priority list. And one of the main reasons is because the trickle down effect has an impact in every other aspect of your life. So as an example, let's say you are having some health issues and it's affecting you mentally and your anxiety is increasing significantly and you're starting maybe to have, maybe it's triggering some periods of depression or whatever the case may be. Well, those feelings and effects trickle down and impact all decision making. So you know, as an example, let's say you're trying to make a financial decision. Well, if you're having those feelings and you're feeling very anxious and all of those things, it could impact how well you make that decision, which again could have a huge impact down the road, feeding again negative feedback, feeding back into just a continuation of high anxiety or depression or whatever the case may be. So it certainly has a huge impact and we would very much encourage clients to prioritize their health, both physical and mental.

Is there a set dollar amount though? I was kind of thinking about and I'm so glad Kelly you asked that question because we do talk about it a lot and I do think that the generation right now that are coming up that I think there's more of a mindfulness around doing things for self care because they're seeing it all over social media. I'm just curious if there is or maybe there's some speak in the area of the financial world around a particular percentage that should be put aside specifically for whether it be proactive or reactive healthcare expenses.

So again, it's a moving number and it's a very difficult question to answer because it is such a moving number depending on again where folks are at life cycle wise. One of the things that we do encourage is try and do something around between a 5 and 10% contribution to a Healthcare Savings Account. We personally think that those are going to matter in the future, certainly just depending on with all the uncertainty around health care in general, around what may or may not be happening at a federal government level, that kind of taking control and ownership yourself is going to matter. And Healthcare Savings Accounts are a great vehicle to contribute into. And you can treat those as any other type of retirement account or investment account where while you're putting money into it, you can be attempting to grow that money. So again, you can have the compounding effect. And over time it can certainly have a huge impact on bridging the gap for medical expenses, just depending on what's happening with yourself individually or what may happen in the future.

So I know we're talking dollars and cents, but I just want to encourage our audience and our listeners that, you know, all investments in health don't have to do with dollars. It costs nothing to go for a walk. It costs nothing to go put your feet on the ground and breathe in the air.

Right.

It costs nothing to have a good conversation with your friend to offload some stress. So think about it not only in dollars and cents, but think about it in time. You know, are you setting aside enough time, are you budgeting enough time to truly care for yourself in a way that's going to pay you back? So I love the dollar and cents talk, but I want to make sure we're looking at our health comprehensively too, in a way that is going to, like I said, it's going to pay us back long term. So those little things over time do matter.

I agree with that certainly. And I think that kind of leads back to habits. Right. So, you know, if, if you made a habit of going for an evening walk every day, it starts to have a huge impact. And habits certainly over time can impact tremendously, even though they seem small at the time. And I know Ellie has spoken with a number of folks about what types of habits to start and begin with. And I don't know if you wanted to mention a couple that might help people, please.

Yes, Ellie, we would love to hear from you.

I think making a habit of, of checking in regularly with yourself and where, evaluating where your own priorities are, both in health and financial health. I know that's more of an internal habit, but it helps you kind of, it helps you check in and I think it helps alleviate some stress sometimes on some of these things. You know, when you're spending, when you have an expense, say a gym membership that you know is also, it's an investment into your Health and wellbeing long term. And so it can help to alleviate some of that stress on these decisions when you can compare it back to your values and your priorities. So I think that just that internal checking in on those kind of things can really help practically though. Yeah, I think setting time aside, I think so. Something I run into a lot is people want to do these things. They want to set up the account, they want to start contributing whatever it is they want to do it. They just. People are busy. I'm busy, I'm busy. You know, I think we're all in that, that same boat a lot of times. And so making a habit to set aside a little bit of time on whatever, whether that's monthly or once a year, whatever that looks like, you know, on a personal level, but setting aside some time, making a habit of that to check in on your finances, to look at them, to consult, to look at your plan and evaluate where you're at, I think that can always make a really big difference too.

You know, they used to say that you, to know what a person's priorities are, you would just look at their checkbook. Right. Well, hardly anybody carries a checkbook around anymore. Right. So I love what you just said, but that's where my head went, is really taking some time to take pause and maybe go to the bank account. And where are you spending your time and money and does that align? Our word of the year is congruent. That's something we're speaking to our clients regularly about is, you know, that's that, that's that, that alignment, if you will, of what they want to achieve and what they are actually doing right now is there, that alignment, because that in and of itself can create a lot of discord, depression, stress and everything that goes into that. And another thing you really said, and I, and I love this, Ellie, and I wanted to go back to it, is you had mentioned putting that, that money aside for the gym membership. You know, are we currently using it? Am I using it? And then, then you look at that through the lens of is that really an expense or is that an investment?

Yes.

Sometimes those words are really great. Where they don't they look at. And I don't know if this is a male or female thing. Would love, you know, maybe some banter around that. But looking at those, those monies going out differently, you know, when they do go to, you know, spend money at the gym or spend certain lab work or just different things related to their health, you know, is helping them to discern and Change the verbiage. Just change the verbiage to this is an investment versus an expense.

And what I would say to that is if you're spending the money for a gym membership and you're not going, that's an expense. If you're spending money on labs and you're not doing anything to change what you're doing to affect those labs, that's an expense. So it's only an investment if you use it as an investment. Investment. In my mind, that's how, that's the filter I use for myself. Like, am I going to do anything with this or is this just, you know.

Yeah, but I think, in my opinion, I think it also kind of circles back to where, you know, folks may use that, trying to not have a feeling of failure. Right. So if they have that gym membership, even though they're not going to. Well, they'll get there eventually.

They still could. Yeah, they still could.

Yeah. So once you cancel it, you're like, okay, well miss that one.

Now I'm a real loser. Right?

Yeah.

And like you had mentioned the all or nothing thinking. You know, I think something I tell myself all the time is progress over perfection. We say yes all the time. It's better to work on a good plan than wait, sit and wait for a perfect plan. You know, that progress, progress pays off it, you build momentum, you build it, you gain experience, you get better at what you're doing. Just like with working out, you know, you learn as you do it how to do it better. So I think finances is very similar where if you can get started and start a plan, you'll fine tune, you'll adjust, you'll be flexible for what happens and whatever happens in life. But just getting started and not, not making the goal perfection, I think it can be really helpful.

So, Jason, you mentioned earlier budgeting, Are there some budgeting apps that you like or that you have found easy for customers to embrace and use? I know I use the Smart Dollar app at times and that's what our team has access to through Dave Ramsey. Are there others that you think would be helpful?

Yeah, that's one of the most popular ones is the one through Dave Ramsey and they have wonderful tools on their website. Certainly that, that also lead back to just how to budget. And they even still have the. Where you can print the piece of paper and go through it with a pencil and pen, which a lot of folks still really want. The apps range pretty broadly, certainly there's one through Intuit. That's a great one because what it will do, which a lot of these will do. But they'll directly link to your accounts. They'll bring everything in as an aggregate. That has a nice format where you can kind of see an overview and all those things. To be honest, these days, even at a bank level, so just even the apps that the banks offer, there are a lot of tools that are built into them that don't cost anything extra. You know, you don't have to have to go get another app or keep up, you know, with more information. It's just built into the system. And we strongly encourage folks to start there because they're not increasing their costs. They're looking at it anyway, or should be, certainly. And it's, it's all built in. But the Intuit one, the Dave Ramsey one, are excellent choices.

So can I get a little personal?

Oh boy.

You said you would answer anything.

I treat a few financial planners, a few financial advisors and, and I always ask my patients what they do. I get to know them. They're like my family. And so I would have to say categorically they are the most stressed out people, especially in the last years. It's like a boiling, like a over boiling pot. Right. And so what do you guys do to help dissipate that? Because I mean, it's a huge responsibility. I mean you are in charge of people's money, right? You're helping them make huge decisions about their finances that impact the quality of their life ultimately. So what are some things that you guys do to help dissipate that stress and help you live the best life possible possible?

Well, now that Ellie of course speak for herself, but, but myself personally, my wife is a, a workout fanatic and she has, you know, bullied and drug and got me over the finish line where that is certainly something that helps tremendously. And, and you always hit, you know, it's the end of the day, you don't want to do something, you're tired, you know, you've been stressed all day, you just want to sit it. But once you cross that line and you get yourself moving and you know, get with whatever it is, biking or lifting weights or walking, golfing, whatever, at the end of it, there is a huge relief certainly that that comes with that and that that has helped me. The other part internally at a, at a firm level is we have a lot of discussions about that. One of the things we strongly advocate is we're open about everything across the board. And if it is a very stressful time period, we know it, you know, in between ourselves and what's happening with our clients, what's happening in the markets, all of those things. And we have general conversations about that, about why and where that stress is coming from and, and how long it may last and all of those things. And just going through the process of communicating helps tremendously as well. And I think it's, you know, with Ellie, her, her strategy is a little different, if I remember correctly, because she, she has, still has young children, which adds to. On top of everything else that's going on.

But they're so much fun. I mean, those hugs from those little ones, there's nothing like getting that big hug. Right. That just takes it all away.

Yeah. Mine are at teenage years, so it's kind of the reverse.

These are stinky hugs right now. So, Ellie, what about you?

Yeah, I definitely agree that exercise, in whatever form, I have found to be one of the best ways to help me shift gears, especially if it has been a stressful day. It, it works wonders. I mean, truly, I think another thing that goes along with the, what Jason was saying, but healthy boundaries is something that he's is always encouraging in our workplace culture as well. But I'm really, I'm getting better, I think, at, you know, over the weekend focusing on something different and having, having healthy boundaries where I'm, you know, the goal is always to be. You want to be attentive, you want to be on top of things. But also having those boundaries gives you a break from the stress too, and allows you to come back to it more refreshed and more focused. So I think that makes a huge difference for me personally. But yeah, it's non stop right now with, with my little guys. But that's, that's a great thing in itself too, because it really forces me to get, get out of work mode, into mom mode and, you know, back and forth.

Well, Jason, I want to give kudos for you for really encouraging those boundaries. Boundaries in your workplace. It is so important. I tell my team all the time we're playing the long game, not the short game. And we need to be mindful of the taxing effect that just dealing with other people's lives has on us personally and honor that and take the time and set those boundaries so that we have time to recover and show up our best every day.

Yeah. And it's. And I think one of the challenges is we are all very committed, you know, to what, to what we do. And, and there are times where you take that commitment and you use that as justification to not take personal time. Right. Or not shut it off at 9 o' clock at night or whatever the case may be. And it just, you know, it doesn't work. You need that hard stop to recharge and have the time for yourself and your family. Certainly.

I'm treating an engineer right now that has not had a vacation in 20 years. He gets up 3:30 in the morning, goes into the office before everybody gets there because he likes to work in the quiet, stays until five, works on the weekends. And I'm like, wow, how do I even start the conversation of like, how to make this right, right? I'm like, dude, go on a vacation first and then come back to see me. But it is so important we can get into some habits. And those are just habits that we've gotten used to over time. And if there's not someone in our life saying, hey, that's really not okay long term, it can be just becoming a way of life and a way of chronic stress that undermines everything we're trying to do.

It's been so good, we could probably sit here and talk forever. This has been really good conversation and so many other questions that we could raise. And perhaps at some point, maybe doing a part two, just to dig a little bit deeper as we see the evolution of change happening in the world today. Right? Because it's happening so fast. I would like to ask you just a question as we exit. And this would be for Jason and for Ellie separately. But what's one piece of advice that you would give to someone who feels stuck financially but wants to reclaim control as we leave today?

And this is a tough answer because it is individualized internally, right, for each person, but it is getting the confidence to take the first step. Now, that first step could be calling someone like me. That first step could be doing a Google search on how to plan for retirement, could be going to the Dave Ramsey website and downloading a budget sheet. It's different for everyone. But having and building the courage to take the first step has a huge impact because the journey starts with the first step. Once you're on on it, momentum carries you. And I think that that is very true. And it has. It can have a huge impact throughout the course of your life, certainly.

And you're speaking about any age, any age, any age.

And everyone's goals and what they're trying to accomplish. And fears and concerns are different. But the answer is always the same. You know, if you're in retirement, as an example, and you're worried about is my money going to last call, somebody Asks, ask them. That's the first step, right? If you're 20 years old and you're just trying to figure out, okay, you know, I just got a job, what do I do? Do a Google search, call somebody, take the first step. So it always comes back to, to kind of the same answer regardless of where you're at, you know, in your life cycle.

Yeah, I think that's, I agree with all of that. I mean, I think, yeah, I would, I would have, I agree it's taking, taking the pressure off off to make the perfect first step and just take a first step, whatever that looks like for the individual situation. But move forward and give yourself grace. To not know all the answers right.

Away reminds me of a pressure cooker and just, you just have to release it, right? And release it somewhere. So in saying that, you know, of course we want to give some good guidance to, to how to choose. You say go online and just do a Google search. But there's gotta be some qualifications and maybe some things that you would advise to look specifically and someone to, to align themselves with. Are there a few key things to look for?

There are. So you certainly want to look for accreditations, experience. There is what's called broker check through the regulatory, regulatory body finra. If you just Google broker check, you can check anyone's credentials, qualifications, how long you know they, they've been in business, all of those things. That's, that's a great place place to start. Don't be afraid to have conversations with multiple parties that we always encourage that. One of the, one of the biggest things that we recommend is make sure you have a very good personality fit with the person you're working with. Because you could have someone who is providing great advice. But if the communication is lost just because it's just not a good fit, that there's going to, you know, it's going to cause complications at some point or you may not be interpreting it correctly, those kinds of things. So make sure that the personalities are good fits. In general though, you want to make sure that the companies or firms that you're working with are reputable. Certainly Google's a wonderful machine. You can look up, you know, how they do customer reviews, all of those things. But doing your homework in general as you would with, with any service, I think is the most important part.

What I hear you saying is interview and it's okay. Right? And I could imagine that you know someone who's quite tech savvy or maybe doesn't mind emailing. Communication is one thing, but to go back to what was said earlier is, you know, do you want to have sit downs and strategies more often and how many are right for you? Like to feel again that feeling of comfort, comfort and trust. So as we, as we head off of here, first of all, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule today for a very, very important conversation. How do people get in touch with you and can they. Where are you located at? Are you taking new clients? So just give us a little bit of information on that.

Sure. Yeah. We are located in the beautiful city of Wildwood, Florida, which I never thought I would say 20 years ago ago, which is really located in the villages. Our website is woodall wealth.com and our direct numbers 352-750-3051. And we are taking clients. We, we, we have a rule that we will have a conversation with anyone regardless of their, their status or their assets or regardless of where they're at in, in their life. We, we very much encourage to have conversations. If we are not a good fit, we will certainly recommend someone who we think might be or an avenue that we think might be. So don't be afraid to call and just have that talk.

So, Jason, are you guys licensed outside of the state of Florida?

We are. We license. It's what's called a just in time license. What that means is that if we're working with a client and we happen not to be licensed in the state, the license kicks in at the same time we carry federal securities licenses. So it bleeds down into, you know, state specific licenses. I would have to pull up.

The listeners are all over. I just wanted to put that out there so that.

Yeah, and we have clients in Massachusetts and New York and Georgia and Texas. I mean we have them all throughout the country.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

Thank you guys for having us. I appreciate it.

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