How to Ask for a Raise and Actually Get It: HR Insider Tips

Welcome back to the podcast. Today's episode is dedicated to all of my W2 working ladies out there. If you want to make more money in your job, this episode is for you. Today I am thrilled to welcome Briana Johnson to the show. Briana is an incredible HR strategist and a career coach with over 15 years of experience in human resources and corporate communication. In this episode, we are diving deep into a topic that I know so many women struggle with, we which is negotiating a raise. We are going to talk about when and how to ask for a raise, what to say during that conversation, and how to brag the right way without feeling awkward. Briana will also share insider tips from her HR background on what managers look for when deciding to approve a raise. She's also going to tell us why you should never accept the very first offer you receive when interviewing for a new role and when it might be time to start looking for a new job. So. So whether you are planning to ask for a raise soon or you just want to feel more confident advocating for yourself at work, this episode is packed with actionable advice that you will not want to miss. So let's go ahead and get started. Bri, welcome to Busy Getting Better. I am so excited to have you on podcast today. I think this is going to be a conversation that is going to benefit so many of my listeners as we head into the new year. We're recording this at the end of 2024, which I think is such a fun time time to have this conversation that you and I are going to have all about how the heck to make more money. Your job. Bri is the industry and she's really going to serve as our HR BFF in this conversation and give us all of the tips and tricks we need to be able to navigate the world and getting better, make the most money possible. So welcome. So excited to have you here.

Thank you so much for having me. I think this is going to be such a great conversation. I love this topic because I think there's so much that feels scary about asking for more money, asking for more responsibility, promotion, any of those things, and it's so much easier than you think it's going to be, especially if you take a little bit of time to prepare for it.

Yeah, I think that's so true. It feels scary and intimidating to walk in and oh, am I just like demanding more money if I'm asking for a raise or like, what's going to happen? And there's so much confidence that goes into that. So hopefully from this conversation, everyone can feel prepared and armed and like they are deserving of what they're asking for. I'd love to hear, give everyone a little bit of an introduction about your path because you were in corporate for over 15 years, you're now running your own business where you're doing this. So give us a little bit of the inside t of that journey and how you got here and ultimately why this is something that you're so passionate about.

So my corporate journey, I think looks a lot like what many people experience in corporate in that you stumble into an area that suits your strengths and you may find that you're really passionate about something that you've never considered. I went to school for public relations and communication and I got a chance to do that in my HR role. I knew that I wanted to get my MBA because I love an academic environment. I love that structure. I tend to be when I'm writing, especially a little bit more on the formal side. I was just putting together a report for some clients and when Microsoft Word is giving you suggestions, it actually told me you're a little formal in a few places. So Microsoft Word thinks I'm up. It means I'm going to be conservative enough to do things the right way. But so much of what I get to do, both when I was in my corporate role and how I was trained in HR and what I get to do with my clients now is really focusing on the human side of it. There's a saying that pops up in HR all the time, that your company's employees, your team, is your most valuable resource. And I disagree. People are sometimes surprised when they hear that I disagree with it, but it's because when you think of what you do with a resource, you use it. And more often than not you use it up. And there's a much better way to treat people. So my approach to HR is always instead of thinking about it as humans, as resources, it's gotta be humans and resources. And that's everything from how have I trained you when you started, what was your onboarding look like? What is your relationship with your team members, your direct supervisor, other leadership in the company? Depending on if you're a 500 person company or a five person company, you can answer those questions really differently. But not only is it the resources and the tools that you need at work, but how am I supporting you when you're not at work? How am I supporting you to live your best life outside of the office so that you're energized and excited and you want to come in compensation, it's that salary.

Yeah, that's so true. And I feel like work life balance is something that's so important. But at the end of the day, people work to make money. People are there to bring an income home and provide for their family. So it's such an important conversation. How did you end up wanting to have this conversation and bring this to light? Specifically about empowering women to ask for more and push their confidence almost upwards when just trying to capitalize on making more money? Like, how did that become something that you're so passionate about?

So much of that comes from my own experience and the experience I see with my friends and my clients now. And so much of it is we're, we're all raised and taught this idea of, oh, your work will speak for itself, your work will show what you're capable of. And to an extent it does. But whether it's directly said, the implication with that sort of message is that you shouldn't ask, you shouldn't speak up. And I, for the first 10 years of my career, didn't do that. And I definitely found myself playing catch up towards the end of my time in corporate because I hadn't pushed or I had said no too quickly or I hadn't negotiated. There were managers I worked with who would actually, it was then negative for a candidate. If we offer Madison a job and we're going to give her this offer, we're going to give her this number, I'm so excited to see how she counters. And then if you accept it right away, we're not going to rescind the offer. But there is that moment of, oh, I really hoped she was going to ask for more. We had more in the budget. There could have been more. And it's this whole concept of being that nice girl, being that people pleaser. I don't want to ruffle the feathers. I don't want to come across as bossy or like braggadocious or any of those things. And if you don't ask for something that you want, there's a very good chance that no one knows you want it. And the people who would be willing to advocate for you in the rooms that you're not in don't know to do it.

Okay, I'm obsessed with what you just said here because you are saying that people in HR want you to ask more money. The money is there for you. So I was sharing with you before this, but my past job in corporate was. I was in tech sales. I would Go and win projects and then come back and staff them. So I'm very familiar with recruiting, I'm very familiar with negotiations and totally love that you're bringing this up because I think this is so important and it's not common knowledge where if you're not going to ask for it, then nobody's going to offer it to you. And it's so important to understand that you don't have to accept the first offer that comes your way. And something that I think I would love to have a conversation about too is you didn't ask for a raise. You weren't empowered to do that for a really long time. And one of the key things I really want everybody to hear in this is if you are not asking for a raise every single year, if you're not trying to increase your income every single year, you're essentially losing money. Because what we need to think about in this is inflation and the way that everything's going to get more and more expensive. And so I'm sure you can validate this. But my understanding is that the average raise inside of a company is 3% every year. And what we know is that inflation is baked in. The goal of inflation every year is also 3%. So if you're not making more money every year, you're essentially losing 3% of your purchasing power. So your goal absolutely needs to be, how can I increase my income? How can I start to move the needle at least 3% to keep up with how much things are staying? Or blow that out of the water and start to actually take home more money at the end of the year?

Absolutely. And there are things that you can do. If you go into this meeting with your boss and you're asking for this raise and they say, no, we can't do it, is there something else that's not the salary that you can get? Can you get more of a vacation time? Most companies will list that under the benefits, which is appropriate. But you need to think about that as also part of your compensation. So if you're one of those people, my dad is this guy who, when he was, before he retired, when he was working, he would be so excited to lose vacation days. Cuz he'd be like, oh, I'm such a good employee, I'm such a good worker. And it's. If you lose vacation days, you have essentially paid your employer for the privilege of doing your job. I don't want to do that. I really don't. I don't want anybody to do that. But that may Be a nice middle ground. Something that shows you're open to the conversation. You're open to negotiating, to say, okay, I get it. I'm gonna get the 3%, not the 5% that I'm asking for. I would like an extra floating vacation day to just put wherever I want it to be and see if that's something that's possible. If you're interviewing for a new position as well.

Yeah, I like that. Thinking of it as, like, the whole compensation package. Where can you pull some different levers? It might be vacation days, it might be stock in the company. It might be all of these different things that you just need to know how to look at it as a whole package versus just one. There might be some other levers you can pull. Okay, I would love to talk about this prepping for asking for a raise, because I feel like people. Oh, like I'm so nervous. What do I do? How do I best prepare? So if you are listening to this and you're sitting here, okay, I want to go ask for a raise, but where do I start? What should I do to prepare for asking for the raise? And what should I be thinking about heading into that conversation with my manager? What would you tell someone?

So the first thing I would say is, there is nothing about this conversation. Conversation that is personal. This is just math. So as you're prepping, think about it from a very curious place. You're not trying to justify the work that you do. You're not trying to increase your own sense of self worth. You're just curious. So you need to see what else is out there. One of the first things that I would do is consider, okay, how has my job shifted over the past year? What new responsibilities have I taken on? What are the things where I can clearly see? And maybe I have some statistics to go with it. Maybe it's anecdotal and that both are okay, but where can I see that I've made a difference? Where can I see that I led a team, that we had a successful project. It was our very first time doing this, and we took something that was a cost center for our organization, and we made it profitable. That's definitely something that you would want to highlight. Have you taken on added responsibilities? Were you training a new team member for a portion of the year? What are those things that you can say, this is big enough that we might need to update my job description. That's the first place that I would look. I would then also get a sense for what's out in the Market marketplace for your role and look at sites like Glassdoor. I have a handful of others that I use when I do this. Report for clients, see what other people are paying, what are they offering for a similar role? You may even have the ability, depending on what your company is doing, to see if they're hiring for a role that's similar to yours. And where does your compensation fall in compared to what they have listed as the salary or the hourly rate for the person who's coming in. That can be a great way to start the conversation as well. So I start with those two things and then I think about, how have those things shifted? Is this the type of, of thing where I haven't gotten more than that, 2 to 3% every year, and it's been five years and now I really need to think I might be falling behind. Do that research, and if you find that you're in a great spot, that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask. It doesn't mean you can't put the question out there, but it does help you prepare. If you're right at the median of what someone in your role might be getting paid for your area, maybe you need to lean a little more heavily on the way your work has changed. And the more strategic aspects that you can point out you're involved in, the more likely it is that your boss gets to say yes. Because we want to make it super easy for your boss to say yes. Depending on how big your company is, the structure that you're in, do they need to go to their boss? How well armed and well informed can your boss be to go in and say, okay, Madison needs this raise and we need to do this for cool.

Okay, so I'm making like solid bullet points. Sit down, reflect on your year and just try and go through all the highlights that you've had and be able to bring that to the conversation. How do you approach that? I know you talk about bragging without bragging. How do you go into that conversation and not just be like, okay, here's why I'm a star. Here's all the things I did this year, look how fabulous and great I am. Like, how do you approach that in a professional manner that is highlighting your worthiness, highlighting your hard work and your effort in a way that might be more palatable and less braggy to your leadership?

That is such a good question. And that is, I think, one of the pieces that hold women back so much, because we don't want to brag my pushback on that word. Specifically is. And we all use it, we all think it to ourselves. It's not bragging if you're telling the truth. If this is something that you can show, you can document it. If you've got charts and graphs, you probably don't need them for this meeting, but maybe you have them somewhere else and you can point to what you've done in that impact. It's not bragging, that's just stating a fact. The way I would approach this with my boss is I'd like to talk about some shifts I've noticed in the work that I'm doing. My priorities, my focus. I want to make sure that you're seeing what I'm seeing and I'd like to talk about what that means for the future. Being able to go into the conversation and approach it from a future planning perspective is really nice in a couple of ways. It gives you a chance to, to not necessarily give your boss an out, but it leaves you open to if they say no, it's more going to be not right now as opposed to a full on no. It shows that you are thinking about your long term career and where you want to go and how this company that you're in supports getting you to where you want to be. And I don't know a single manager that I've worked with directly or indirectly who has said I really want somebody who's just going to be with us for a year. I really want somebody who's going to be. People want to see their team grow and develop and succeed and approaching it from a. Here's what I'm seeing. I'm curious about what you're seeing and what this might mean for my next step in my role on our team, in our company gives you a chance to be collaborative, which I think for most of us feels better. So you come in a little bit more relaxed, you come in a little bit more confident and it gives you a chance to set things up for your boss where it's we're on the same side doing this together as opposed to I'm going to just rapid fire bullet points at you and say now I want my raise.

Yeah, I think you hit on something really good there that I think people probably don't think about often is attrition, which is essentially when we lose employees at work is a metric that managers get graded on and their goal is to minimize attrition because employee turnover is really expensive. Expensive. So their goal, they're going to be way more motivated to find ways to keep you happy. To keep you challenged, to keep you motivated than they are the flip side, because also if you're in a leadership role, if you're managing an office or a team and you have really high attrition because you're not being that person, then your job is going to get looked at. So they're motivated to keep you around. So I think that's something you've got to think about too is it's not just you asking for more money. It's hey, this is the work and effort that I've put in. I think it's worthy of a conversation to talk about that they're going to be just as motivated to pull those strings for you if they can, if it's something that they have the power to do, but they got to know that you want it. And they're not going to go ask their bosses for it if you are not going to ask them for it.

Because there's going to be somebody in your company who this year, in six months, in nine months, maybe on a monthly basis, somebody else is asking for something and if that person is visible, that's how they wind up getting those things. It's so often we see that it's not the most skilled person who gets the promotion, it's the person who's loud about wanting it. And if you can be both, amazing. There's no reason not to say I'd like more. There's no reason not to have that conversation.

I want to talk about men versus women in this conversation because I think there's a couple of things that you've hit on that I have witnessed, experienced and familiar with when it comes to men versus women in the workplace. And one of them is women waiting until they are 100% qualified on a job description, until they are 100% hitting a all their stats, hitting all their metrics before asking for more money. You feel like you have to hit 100, 110% capacity before you feel worthy or ready for that next step for that next raise. Where on the flip side, men are often louder. Let's just say it right. I think there's something to be said about how women are usually those people that are putting their head down and doing the work and waiting for their work to get recognized. Men, on the flip side, are a lot more relationship based. So they usually utilize that to their advantage to get to the next level, to get into leadership positions, to get the next raise. Because to your point, they are louder and then we know we'll go for the job. Ask for the raise, go for whatever it Is when they're 50% qualified based on the job description, or they're, like, at their goals, but they're friendly and people like them and they're louder. And I feel like this is something that is a topic of conversation. So I just love to hear your thoughts about that. And what would you say to that woman who, knowing that, like, we fall into this category, like, what would you say to that?

When I was involved in hiring in my corporate role, and we would put together that job description that would go out online, be posted internally, we would describe the list of experiences, skill sets, all the things that go into the requirements section. That's a wish list. It's not a requirement. There is a unicorn candidate out there who does have all of those things, but it is truly a wish list. And even if you feel like, oh, I Maybe only have 75% of what's on that list, if you have the capacity to learn and the interest in learning, you're golden. I can teach a process. I can teach a software. I can teach a program. I can teach all of those things. I cannot teach interest. And if you can show that you have learned things in the past, if you can show me that you're a quick learner, game on. I want to have this, and I want to keep going. I think the statistic that I've seen is that for men, they have to hit 60%. I will tell you, based on a conversation I recently had with my husband, it's less than that. Worst case scenario, I continue to not have it. Best case scenario, I get it somewhere in the middle. I get to have a really focused conversation about my career development and what I need to do to get that job I want. And I think sometimes as women, we're afraid of hearing that because we're like, I'm working so hard. I'm giving 110%. If you're truly giving 110%, 10% for long enough without getting recognized for it, or with a promotion, a title change, a bonus, a raise, all you're doing is setting yourself up for a new hundred percent.

There was something that came out on the Internet recently that was like, oh, we surveyed all these men and they all said that we could land a plane with no training. And I'm like, man, the confidence behind that, like, you've got to. You got to respect it a little bit.

My husband also is certain he could land the plane.

They play enough video games. I don't really know, but I think it's really important to recognize that you don't need to have everything on the list. And I think what's important to talk about with that too is most people aren't interviewing for lateral jobs. Most people aren't like, I want to go do the exact same thing I'm doing right now over there. If you are, then sure, you probably are going to be very qualified for that job description. But if you want to move into something new, if you want to learn a new skill, then there. How could you have a hundred percent of the job duties on there if you haven't done that job before? That is what people, I would love for them to recognize is, yeah, I've got a good chunk of these. And also I'm committed. This company is doing something that I'm really excited about. This project is something that I'm eager about because like you said, coachability and excitement and enthusiasm and personality traits aren't something that are going to be on a resume. Those are going to be just you showing up, being put me in coach, let me show you what I can do.

And you look at a job description and you have a hundred percent of what's on there. You're probably overqualified and you don't know to grow in that position.

Yes.

So you'll very quickly find yourself frustrated and feeling like you're hitting a ceiling or you're hitting a wall and you have nowhere to.

People want. People that want to learn and grow. That is one of the biggest thing when we're talking about teams that are interviewing or looking at people to move into positions. They want people that have that growth mentality that are like, yeah, I could figure that out. People get so hung up on, oh, I haven't used this or I haven't done that. It's like you've probably done something similar and it's not that special software. That's not what they're looking for in most cases, unless you're a very niche software developer. And that's no, we actually need someone with this one weird software.

It's important in whether it's a new job, whether it's the raise to be framing it in that here's where I want to go. It's not just, I've done this, I want this in return for it. It's. This is a part of a bigger plan for me. So let's talk about that plan. And this time of year especially, everybody's thinking about that. That wrap up that review of the year, planning for their annual review. That's going to come up in the beginning of next year. And it's an easy time to start to think about, okay, what is it that I really. If I'm goal setting for next year, where do I want to be? Maybe not January 5th, but where do I want to be by this time next year, By December of 2025, where do I want to be?

Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about that. You're going into your manager and asking for that raise again. Two questions that come up for me are, should everybody just be waiting until this yearly review to bring up asking for a raise for the first time? That would be my first question. So let's start there.

If you've never asked for a raise before, it's a great time to do it.

Okay.

It is definitely not the only time. Having been in hr and companies will do this in a couple different ways, but by the time January rolls around, depending on when your fiscal year is, the budget is already set. So if you ask for a raise and you get it, there's a very good chance that was coming to you anyway. Another thing that companies might do is each manager may get an amount, and then they have to determine how to divide that among their team.

Let's say I have three team members.

And I have $3,000. I could give them each a thousand dol. I could give one person 1500 and the other two 750. And again, that number that the manager is playing with has already been determined. So I like to approach a performance review not as a look back, but as a strategy session. So we want to know what happened. We want to know where things were, where did things end up? What work did we take on in the previous year? But then how does that set us up for where we're going for the next 12 months? That's part of what makes this a good time to talk about that raise is because if the budget is set and there wasn't anything in January, what needs to happen by June for you to have another conversation with your manager about how do I get that dollar, whatever that target is for you, that percentage, how do I get that raise by the end of the year? Don't be afraid to say to your boss, okay, we're talking about this in January. I want to revisit this in three months, in six months. I need to know that if I am seeing that I'm on track, that you're also seeing that I'm on to hit that goal. Hmm.

I love that. Okay. Because my next question was your Manager says no, how do you take it from there? And I think what you just nailed is a no doesn't mean no forever. A no means no right now. And then asking those follow up questions to figure out, okay, why not right now and what needs to happen in order for it to be a yes later. And then making sure that you and your manager aren't on the same page of, hey, it's not there because we don't have the funding, but we might have it later, or hey, it's not there because I haven't necessarily seen the things that make me feel like I want to approve that raise. And I think now that you've had that conversation, you can make sure you guys are working towards the same goals. And also now your manager knows, like if they're not paying attention to that stuff, like their jobs get busy, they have a lot of responsibility. So you have to be that squeaky wheel almost of, hey, this is what I'm working towards and I want to make sure you and I are talking the same talk over here.

Absolutely. Yeah. Depending on, from my perspective, it doesn't really matter if you work for yourself or for someone else. You have to be the CEO of your career going to drive it for you. If it's something that you want to have happen, you have to be able to do that. And some of it too is looking at, okay, what are the other times throughout the year where I could ask and when does that make sense? And if you've had a big win in some way, you launched a new product line for your company, you landed a big client, there are so many different things that it could look like that's a great time right after that success to say, hey, how does this impact my compensation? How does this change my salary? If you've been given new responsibilities, I'm really excited. I can't wait to learn about all of this and start incorporating this into what I do. Will there be a change to my pay that reflects these added responsibilities?

Yeah, that's so true. Another tip I heard to incorporate was to anytime you're getting emails or these requests for new skills, new responsibilities, or you're getting kudos emailed to you like, hey, great job on this. Put it in a folder in your inbox or put it in a Google Drive or do something to save this so that you can one remember how much of a badass you are at your job and to have something to reflect on too. So it's not just all up to memory. When you do sit down at the end of the year. So have some sort of system in place that anytime you have a win, you can just throw it in there. I also was in sales, so I would do that. And anytime I had a really crappy day or my business was just terrible, or my managers were being jerks, I just read a few. I'll be like, okay, I'm good. I can do this. A little mood booster.

Absolutely. I love that. I actually put a reminder on my calendar once a month to go through and make sure that have I added everything? Is that still there? And I would recommend, if you are in a corporate setting, make sure you're sending it somewhere where you can access it at home. Because that can also be really helpful if you do decide you need to find a new job or if you're looking to get involved in, like a local charity, some of those people might be able to make connections for you. And if you are the one sending. Anytime you get a chance to copy someone's boss, because bosses don't, to your point, they're busy, they're swamped with their own stuff. Stuff I loved getting copied on emails about things that my team had done that people appreciated. It was such a nice little moment in my day, even if I had nothing to do with it. With the fact that somebody took their time to say thank you. The fact that somebody took their time to tell me that my team member had done a great job, I loved that.

Yeah, I think that's so good. And that kind of reminds me of this whole do what you would want done to you energy. Put out the vibes that you would want to be put back towards you. And so if you would love to get shouted out by someone for your work and love to have your boss be highlighted and showcased how great you are at your job, and then you're in a situation where somebody else is being a rock star and they do something that's just so awesome or they're just doing a really great job or whatever it was, shout them out too. And make sure that's known be, I don't know, be a little best friend in the office or do whatever you can to just shout people out. Because people really appreciate being recognized for their hard work. And I don't think that happens enough.

There's so much where we're quick to point out what went wrong. We're quick to complain, complain about something that wasn't perfect. But if you can start to be the person who is lifting other people up, even when you think to yourself, okay, bri was really helpful in that, but that's her job. You can still say thank you to someone for doing their job if they're doing it.

Yeah, I think that's so good. And we need more of that. And then back to the whole doing your work is part of the job, but also culture is so important. And being that team player and being someone that people like to work with and being someone that brings a positive vibe and a positive energy into the office that almost takes you farther than excelling in your job past a certain, certain point. Right. There's so much there where a lot of jobs, people can do them like a lot of people can do a lot of these jobs. So people can sit down and do your job. They can figure it out, they can get trained on it. People want to keep people around and elevate people that are fun to work with, that are easy to get along with, that are really great teammates and collaborators and all of that. So it's another really big component, I think, to succeeding in life, but obviously especially in corporate world.

Absolutely.

So let's talk about. Your manager says no, and now we're years down the line and you haven't had a race. What is the breaking point of being like, hey, I've had enough and I am ready to go look for something else that's going to pay me more money. What's your thoughts on that?

By the third ask by the third time and don't let it be three years. So try and have those three asks, have them be no more than six months apart because if it goes longer than that, it's a brand new sequence, it's a brand new time for your manager. Maybe you've had a shift in the management team in that timeframe and you had an executive who was anti raises for whatever reason and now you've got somebody who's, yeah, I'm really interested in fair compensation, accurate compensation, you know, making sure that our team feels valued for the work that they're doing. But at the point that you've had about three asks and it's been a no every time. If there's been some attempt to meet what you've asked for, let's say you've asked for a 10% raise the first time and you got a five, that doesn't feel like as much of a no as not getting anything. So if for me, if it's that third time and really nothing has happened, somewhere in the hierarchy of your company there is a breakdown and you may be stuck. And sometimes the best Way to move up is by moving out. And as much as we hate to see it happen, I have a good friend and a former colleague who was amazing at her job. She was the best finance person I've ever worked with. But she got to a point in the company where in order for her to move up, the CFO was going to have to retire. And the CFO was not in an age range where that was going to happen anytime soon. I need to get a new job with a different organization so I can continue to build my skills, skill set and grow and have that increase to my salary that I know I should have.

Yeah, I think that's an important conversation to have too because I think in past generations it was so common for people to get locked into one company and stick there for their entire career. And I think nowadays that's not so much the case. We talked about how you can realistically 3% raise year over year in your job, but if you leave and you go somewhere else, you could double your income by that one job hop. There were so many instances I saw where people were making 50k and then went and interviewed at a really great company with great benefits for something that was a little bit stretchy for their skills. They got it and they doubled their income. Now they're making six figures. So you can't always do that inside the walls of your company. And I think it's really important to look at that and be really cognizant of what other jobs are paying in other companies and understand that you might have to make that tough decision at some point. Even if you love your job and you like it, there might still be other reasons for you to leave. You don't have to be miserable. You don't have to identify as working in a toxic environment to feel like, no, I think I'm going to go explore outside of the walls here because I want more money or I want whatever, like that's okay. And I think that's a lot more common nowadays for people to change jobs every couple of years or change companies because you have so much more career advancement and you have so much more financial advancement opportunities for you. So if you're not getting them where you are, definitely feel comfortable and confident in looking elsewhere.

There were so many times where we'd have someone who was early in their career, like first five years of their corporate career, and they would stay with our company for two or three years and then move on to something new. I loved being a part of kickstarting someone's success so if you've learned something while you work with me and you're able to take that knowledge and get a $50,000 increase in your pay by going on to what's next next. I like to feel like I had a little hand in that. I taught you something. We did something in our time together that made that possible, and I love that. My boss used to say, you can learn a lot about the company's culture. Not during your orientation. Don't watch how the company treats people who are brand new. Watch the way they treat people who are leaving. You do everything that you can to leave on good terms to be that collaborator. There's no reason for your company not to do the same. If you left our company because you were going to a new job, we put cupcakes by your desk so that people would come by and say, thank you for the time you spent working with us, all of those different things, and you can leave on very good terms. When I left to focus on my family and start my company, my very first client was my former employer, and they're still a client five years later. So it's very possible to maintain great relationships even when you don't work with each other all day, every day.

Yeah. Oh, I love that you said that, and I love that you guys did that on the way out into your point. No one really remembers the onboarding, but everybody remembers the way that they leave. Right. What's that taste in the mouth that you have when you're walking out? And I think we think about this, like, company loyalty. I feel like this is, like, what a lot of people think, oh, I have to stick around. I have to stay in this job for a couple years. I don't want to be a job hopper. I don't want my resume to reflect that. And I think if you do it right and you're doing it like you said, you're leaving on really good terms, and you came in and you learned and you grow, and you either accomplished and you wanted to move on to something else, or you just found out like, hey, this job, it just wasn't for me. This wasn't where I excel. What I would want everybody to hear out of that is it doesn't necessarily have to say anything bad about you. We're all just learning and growing. I'm such an advocate of every job that we do and role that we step into is teaching us about ourselves, and it's either things that we're really great at or things we're not so good at. And Things we don't want to do and jobs that we don't want to have. So look at it as like a exploration and don't necessarily feel so trapped, like you have to stay there to prove to someone that you're loyal. Like, you've got to do what's best for you, your family, your life goals and all of that. At the end of the day.

And so much has shifted about what would be considered a job Hopper. When my. When I was first starting, my very beginning of my career, if you had been somewhere less than five years, you were probably going to be looked at as a job hopper. I would never consider someone who had spent two years at a company, three years at the next two years. You're not job hopping. You're being strategic. If you are going to be a job hopper, in my opinion, if I'm reviewing a resume and you have seven jobs in two years, then you might be in that job hopper category. But for the most part, if you can show me that your path. Path has been consistently moving in an upward direction when it can be like a big jump and then a not so big jump. But if you can show me that you're moving and you're learning and you're growing, that's just strategic.

Yeah, a hundred percent. And back to what we said, like, people want growth oriented, motivated people that want to learn and want to grow. Okay, I'm going to pivot because I just really want to ask your perspective on this. It's really about moms who take time off. You're a mom. I know you have a special needs kid. And I'm sure there's a lot of responsibility that goes into that. And something that I saw a lot, and that comes up a lot, I think, is hiring moms that maybe haven't worked for a little while or maybe they've had to take a step out of their career and now they're hopping back into job interviewing. In that I just want to know, what would you say to those moms that maybe feel like they aren't qualified or they're not as confident because they had to take some time off? I'd love to hear what you have to say to them.

So that is something that's come up with several of my career coaching clients in the past. I have a client that I've worked with and she was like, I was just a race car mom. And I'm like, I don't know what that mean. And she said, I spent the past 10 years coordinating his travel, doing his Social media, working through all the sponsorship negotiations. And I was like, that's not you being a mom, that's you being a director of operations. And that's how we put it on your resume. And I think for that, when you're thinking about, okay, what are the things that I've done? Have you been involved in any sort of organization? Have you done stuff for the pta? Have you volunteered? I'm thinking about a resume. So I'm looking over here thinking about a resume and instead of having it be work experience, we're going to call it relevant experience. Because the life that you've lived, the things that you've managed absolutely contribute to your ability and the things that you can handle in the workplace. And I think we're starting to see a nice shift. It's slow because it's corporate, but there is a shift in the understanding and the willingness to acknowledge what moms bring to the table. You need a manager who can handle multiple competing priorities and ongoing projects. Moms do that. You need a manager who can empathize with a team. Moms can do that. That. You need a manager who can motivate someone. If you can get a toddler to eat broccoli, you can get a grown ass person to do their job. You can do all of these things.

Have you seen that video going around of like the job interview where the guy's asking, it's 24 7, no days off. You have to be on eat all the time, no sleep, you have to deal with irrational behavior and, and, and all. And also, by the way, it's no pay. And people are like, that's insane. Who would do that? And then it's, that's the role of a mom. And it was, oh, it brings me, it brought me chills. I like teared up when I saw it. But it's so true. Moms are, and I think you're right, it is shifting where people are starting to appreciate the fact that women coming out of that chapter and back into the workforce are badass women and they can get shit done. And also moms find ways to get things done in way less time because they have way less time. Talk about efficiency and cutting crap out.

Absolutely. And it's this really interesting thing where you want someone to be on your team who's motivated, who is more motivated than a woman who has said, I haven't done this, or a man who has stepped out, who said, I haven't been in a corporate world for five years or 10 years and I'm gonna Go, go back, back and make a difference. That's huge.

Yeah, totally. And I think that's important, especially I have a lot of people in my circle that are just stepping into that chapter of motherhood and are afraid to take time away because how are they going to get back in it? And I think it's just important to know that chapter is so important, too, and that you get to go through different phases of life and you can totally be all in on that motherhood chapter. And when you're ready to step back into corporate, you're going to find a place, you're going to find a job that respects your skills. You just have to show up with the confidence of, I'm going to figure this out.

Absolutely. And that is another one of those interesting places where, if I could borrow, for some of the women I know, some confidence from some of the men I know. I've never met a guy who walked into a room saying, you know what? I am not going to make this happen. They may not put a timeframe on it. They may not be specific with, here's my exact plan that I will follow. It's just a. I'm willing to do this. I'm willing to make this work.

Yeah, I think that's awesome. I think we all need to embrace that. The Delulu is. The salulu is a big, common phrase right now. Steal some of that confidence. Be a little Delulu. Yeah, I can feel. Figure it out. I haven't done that in years. You figured out how to be a mom. You figured out how to do your job before that. Like, you're going to figure this out, too.

Anything you have at work is going to come with some sort of a training manual or a video or something like that. Your kids did not come with that. You'll be okay.

Anything else you want the woman to know about asking for a raise? Any final thoughts that you want to.

Leave them with the first time you do it, like so many things in life, it's going to be awkward. You're going to be nervous. You're going to say the wrong thing. You're going to stumble over your words. You're going to want to run out of the room and just be like, okay, thank you. Bye. Take the time to practice. If that means you are saying it in the mirror. If you have a friend who's going to be willing to listen to you, a partner or spouse at home who can do that. If you need to practice this with your dog, do it a couple of times and laugh at yourself. Because if the point that you've laughed at yourself for doing this stuff, it's going to be fine there. You'll feel so much better. You'll feel so much more confident. Just know that you can do it.

Yeah, I love that everything anyone has ever done successfully comes from repetition. Right? It always comes from practice, visualizing it, it, rehearsing it. All of those tools are so important in so many aspects. And that absolutely plays a factor into this, too. I think doing it in front of the mirror is okay. I'm going to look at myself, like, is my head up or my shoulders back? Am I smiling? Am I going in this with a calm demeanor? Am I approachable? All of that stuff is so important. But, yeah, I love what you said. Like, it's going to feel awkward. And the more confident you get with it, all good things are going to come from building confidence in that.

Yeah, nobody starts Expert.

Everybody starts as a beginner, you just have to start.

Start.

Okay. Two questions I ask everybody at the end of the interview. One is, what book should I and all of my listeners read next?

Oh, that is such a good question. I am a complete and total bookworm and will read just about anything that you put in front of me. If you are looking for something that will help boost that confidence. Meredith Feynman wrote a book called Brag Better. It's a couple years old, but it walks you through that exact process. Process of figuring out, what is it that I'm gonna say about what I've done? What do I wanna gain from saying this and sharing this with someone, and how do I do it the right way? So for this conversation, if you're thinking about how do I get, I go in and ask for more money. That would be a great place to start.

Love it. Brag Better. I like the title. Catchy, Straight to the point. Okay, and last question. Bri, what is one thing that you are busy getting better at right now?

I am getting better at writing. I tend to be a fairly academic, academic style writer. There are a lot of people who are like, why use seven words when you can use two? Why use two when I can use seven? I am definitely that person. So I'm trying to get better at that because I have a couple of big opportunities coming up in 2025 that are going to require me to write a lot more. So I'm really excited about that.

Ooh, do we see a book in the future coming our way?

There is absolutely a book getting published. There's a collaborative book where I'm writing one of 10 chapters that comes out in January and then a full book where I get to write the whole thing coming out before the end of the year.

Oh, my goodness. Wait. How exciting. Okay, you'll have to send me all the so I can link it in the show notes so everybody can find it. Bri is also leaving us some really fun tips and tools for you guys to be successful with. Some scripts that you can look at, some checklists that you can make sure you're prepared. So we'll have all that LinkedIn, the show notes, and then where can everybody find you best places to get in contact if they want to follow up.

With you best places, it's LinkedIn. LinkedIn is one of them. But there are also links within the salary guide that is going to be in the show notes. So LinkedIn, Instagram and I have a brand new set of deck that's coming out as well.

Amazing. We will get that all linked for you guys so you guys can go out and kick ass and get more money in your jobs and yeah, make more money because that's what we're all about. Being able to live our lives and provide for ourselves with the funds that we're bringing in. Thank you so much for being here. This was such a fabulous conversation. I just already know people are going to get so much out of this and I hope everybody takes this information and yeah, go get that raise next year.