How To Travel For FREE with Megan Lanford (Credit Cards, Points, VIP Treatment)

Foreign. This is Busy Getting Better, the podcast for women who are committed to prioritizing their own personal growth. I'm your host, Madison J. A mindset and money coach, a first generation wealth builder and a woman on a mission to help you master your finances and live your best life. Money is not all we are covering though, because in order to live your best life, you have to become your best self. So we are diving deep into all things personal development and bringing you the mindset set shifts, money, tips, and inspiration. You need to go out there, be bold, and build the life you can't stop daydreaming about. It's time to get busy, babe. Busy getting better. Okay, you guys, I am really excited for today's episode. Today we have a guest on talking about a highly requested topic ever since I started talking about the travel that I did this summer. So we have got Megan Lanford, who is a travel and points and credit card expert and. And she is here to answer all of our questions about how to utilize credit cards and points to our advantage to travel more often and to save more money. So, Megan, thank you so much for being here today. I'm really excited to have you here on Busy Getting Better.

Yeah, I'm so excited. Hello, everybody. Let's talk all things travel.

I love it. Okay, why don't you give us a quick introduction? I'm so curious, like, how did you get into this space and how did you get to a point where you were like, wow, more people need to know about this. This is going to be my thing. I would love to hear a little bit of backstory.

Yeah. So I always love to travel. We were like the typical family struggling to afford one vacation a year, doing all the budgeting, all the things. And I just, I felt really restricted and I didn't like it. I was pregnant with my daughter. I wanted her to have a better life than what we had. My husband didn't fly till he was 18 and it was to go to the Marine Corps and fly overseas. So we just wanted so much more for her. I came across the word travel hacking and I had no idea what that was. I discovered that it was traveling on credit card points and I thought I was a genius. I had one cashback credit card and I thought I was so smart doing that, and I had no idea what was out there. I then just dove straight in, did all of the research I could, Blog posts, podcasts. I even took an online course just trying to learn everything I could about travel points. And then we went from that barely Affording one vacation a year to the next year after I learned this, to taking over six trips that next year and saving $20,000 on our trips, they were all practically free trips. And everyone started asking me how the heck I was doing this and to teach them. And so the business was born. Points to paradise. And now I teach women how to do the exact same thing.

I love that. And I love, from the perspective of, like, just wanting to see more of the world, but wanting to really provide that life for your own family and your kid at a really young age to be able to start getting that exploration. I think sometimes when we think about, like, all this, like, luxury, like, travel card credit stuff, and it's just. It feels like this, like, big world. And I love that. It's like you're bringing it home for a family just to be able to travel more often and be able to, like, have those core family memories and. But not add to your financial stress.

Yeah, exactly. And that's what it comes down to is, like, I just want to create more memories with my family because we aren't into, like, all the presents and all the things. Like, we take my daughter on a trip every year for her birthday because we know she's going to remember that, but she's not going to remember the toys we bought her when she was 5. And so making those memories without that financial stress really is, like, everything.

Wait, I love that. How old is she now?

So she just turned two. So, yes, I know she's not going to remember her first two trips of her life, but the thought is, like, as soon as she's old enough to start asking where she wants to go, then every year she'll get to pick where she wants to go for her birthday.

Okay, that was my next ask. Like, is she getting any sort of input into where she wants to go? And are you guys, like, feeding into that or are you, like, we're going to pick the trips?

Yeah. So we started with San Diego for her first birthday and then Phoenix for her second one. Just close because she's younger. We went to the beach and hung out at the pool. But three, four years old, when she's, like, able to ask, she'll get to ask every year where she wants to go for her birthday, and we'll tell her she can go wherever she wants.

I love that. I love that. Okay, so it sounds like you're obviously, like, pushing the narrative of being able to travel more often, but also, you know, you and I have talked about, like, traveling in first class and all of that. So I'm curious, like, if you're talking to somebody who wants to get into this, like, what's a good place to start? Like is it just trying to add another trip in based on your travel? Is it trying to like hack the system to get first class flights? Like someone who really wants to understand like how to utilize this world to their benefit, like where would you tell them to start?

Honestly, it's really whatever you want. If you're looking for more of that luxury and first class tickets, five star resorts that is completely possible for you. Or if you're just looking for like visiting your family once a year and seeing them more often if they're on the other side of the country, you can do that too. But really just starting with like a beginner friendly travel points credit card, my favorite is the Chase Sapphire Preferred. It's a low annual fee of $95. And just starting with those flexible point cards, which just means you have a lot of options on how to transfer those points out. So I know you've talked about Chase before. You can transfer to Hyatt hotels or Marriott or Southwest. So you don't really have to have this like big plan of how you're going to use it. And you can just have those flexible points for when you decide where you want to go. Then you have those different. Just kind of starting slow with that one credit card, seeing how the points work. And then when you feel comfortable opening up that second card and just start accumulating a large amount of points so that you have lots of options on where you want to go on vacation.

Yeah, I love that also. Yeah. Shameless Plug. Absolutely love Chase Sapphire. I have the reserve card and we've talked about it. It's like one of my absolute favorite hacks because you get so many benefits from it. So definitely a great place to start because as you mentioned, they have transfer points. Will you elaborate a little bit more about like what that looks like and like what can we be doing with the points? Right. We talk about like accumulating points, but like what are all of the things that we can be doing? Because I don't think everyone has like a good perspective. I know, I didn't. I thought it was just for flights. Right. But there's so much more to the world. So give everybody a picture. Like you accumulate these points and then like what can we do with it? How can it help us create these vacations?

Yeah. So there is so many different things that you can do with your travel points. Everybody automatically goes to flights and hotels. That's the number one thing you can do. The number one thing I see people make mistakes on is when you have a Chase card or an American Express card. All of those banks have a travel portal within their banking system. And so when you log in, it automatically shows you that travel portal. And a lot of people just use their points straight in there. When you do that, it's at a fixed rate. And so let's just say you have 60,000 points that is going to accumulate to about 6 to $700 depending on the bank. When you transfer those points out to, let's just say Hyatt Hotels and then you book directly with Hyatt, you're always almost doubling or tripling the amount of value. So you can turn that $600 sometimes into $2,000 with a hotel, a five star luxury resort. So that is the number one tip that I have for you. Like transfer your points out when you can because you're going to get so much more value for it and stretch your vacation. So like Instead of taking one vacation with that 60,000 points, maybe you could have taken two trips with it or gotten a first class flight instead of economy or something like that. So that's really where I think everybody should start.

Yeah, I think that's so good because I totally was that person that was like just utilizing it within the portal and didn't understand necessarily like the transfer partnership and the power, the power behind all of that. I'm curious because I think this is somewhere like I definitely get overwhelmed and I think other people probably do too. You've got all these points, right? You've got 60,000 points in there. How do you strategize and figure out how to get the most bang for your buck? Right. You're looking at, okay, it could, it could go towards a flight, it could go towards a hotel room, it could go towards these activities. But how do you advise people to figure out like how to actually figure out what the best use of those points are to get like the best value? If there's like deals going on or if there's like a way to just kind of like assess all of that. I'm curious what your advice is there.

Yeah, so first thing, if you're a beginner and you don't really know where to start, I always recommend starting with Southwest Airlines and Hyatt Hotels because they're kind of the cheap. One of the points world. You can get flight to Hawaii on southwest sometimes for 6000 points. Like crazy deal. $7 is the taxes you pay. So it's a really good entry level. Same thing with Hyatt hotels. You can get really nice resorts for 20,000 points a night, whereas if you were to go to, like, Hilton, a lot of the times it's 100,000 points. So those are kind of the beginner steps and where you should use your points within them before you start branching out with some of the other brands. I also recommend just kind of sticking with one airline and one hotel program to kind of stay loyal, to build that loyalty up, and then you get perks within them for upgraded seats, upgraded suites, free breakfast, things like that. And then really just focusing on those two brands before you really start branching out for more. Some of the other things, like you said, you can book activities, you can buy your Disney tickets with points. You can go on a cruise ship, you can stay in Airbnbs. Like, each bank has their own unique way of using your points. So, for example, like Capital One, you can buy Disney tickets and get your entire Disney trip for free. So there's all these little nuances and ways to use your points, but really it can cover anything that you really want to do.

And is there a, like, centralized location where one might be able to go in and, like, look at, okay, I have this many points with this partner. Like, here's what I could get. Or do you have to go individually to, you know, this hotel website, into this airline website and kind of figure out what the transfer would be and then decide from there what the best use of your points are?

Yeah, so the banks really don't want you transferring your points out. They want you using their travel portal. So they tend to hide the transfer section of that. And because they're wanting you to use that. And so there really is nowhere to go to find all of the different deals you have to go to, Like, Southwest Airlines, look up your flights, go to United, look up your flights. So when you're looking at spending your points and maybe you have a destination like Hawaii, look at all the different airline partners and all the points for those flights, and then find the cheapest one and then transfer your points to them. So it does take a lot of research once you're ready to use the points, but it's totally worth it, love.

Would you recommend, like, do you typically find better deals with hotels or with flights? Or, like, what would you recommend to start with if someone's trying to figure out where to go?

So definitely, like I said, Southwest and Hyatt hotels are going to be the best bang for your Buck, you're going to get way cheaper. If you were to go to Delta or United, they're always, almost always going to be more expensive. The other thing to look out for is sales and transfer bonuses. So Southwest always has sales. The other great thing about Southwest too is if you, let's say you booked a flight for 20,000 points and then two weeks later they put out a sale and that flight now is 10,000 points, you can get those points back and then we'll give you that discount. So you can constantly be going in and checking your flight and getting either your cash back or your points back. So that's one of the big things that I love about Southwest. The other thing is that the banks will give you transfer bonuses. So for example, right now there's a transfer bonus with Marriott from Chase Bank. So if you're looking to book a Marriott hotel, or maybe you already had that in mind, if you transfer, let's just say 20,000 points from Chase to Marriott, they're going to give you a 50% bonus. So you'll get an extra 10,000 points on top of that just for free. So those transfer bonuses can really add up. When you're transferring like hundreds of thousands of points. You can get a lot of bang for your buck.

Wait, I love that. And the fact that you can even like recoup some of your funds if you're noticing that a different sale is going on.

Yeah.

How does someone find out about these deals that are happening? Are they keeping up to date in like a Chase app? Are they registered to Marriott? Like email newsletters? Like, what's the best place to kind of keep up with these different sales and deals that are going on?

So Southwest definitely is a good one to be on their email list because they will email you every time that they have a sale going on. The transfer bonuses aren't always very publicly known by the banks. Again, because they're not wanting you to get free points from them, I will send them out in my email newsletter every single month with the transfer bonuses. So if that's something you want, definitely get on there. But yeah, those, those transfer bonuses are a little more hidden than the like airlines and hotel sales that they'll put out.

Okay. But you'll do all the dirty work for us. You'll compile it. We just got to subscribe.

Yeah.

Okay. That's amazing. Let's talk about sign up bonuses because I know this is definitely a big factor when you're recommending different cards and obviously like a really great perk. So can you share a little bit with us about what makes a really good signup bonus for a credit card and how do we know if it's something that we should jump on?

Yeah. So what typically people do is they'll have one travel credit card and they'll have that open for a year. So let's just say you get 1x on your points and you spent $30,000 that year. You're only going to get 30,000 points. So what the banks do is they incentivize you to open up credit cards by giving you a large chunk of points, which is called a sign up bonus. So these can look from anywhere from like 60,000 points to 150,000 points, typically. And you have to meet a certain amount of money spent on that card within the first couple of months of opening them. So they all look different. For example, Chase Sapphire Preferred. That card is you spend $4,000 in the first three months and then you'll get 60,000 points. And so this is how, if you're really wanting to maximize on getting free vacations, is getting these sign up bonuses because you're getting way more points with a little bit of spend. So it can be anywhere from like three to $10,000. And that's the great thing about it, is that there's something for everybody's budget. So figure out what your family spends every single month and stick to that budget. So if you spend $2,500 a month on your gas, your groceries, your bills, don't go open a card that is 10,000 in three months because you can't spend that. And we don't want to spend any extra money than what our family is allocated for trying to go into debt to earn these credit card points, that defeats the whole purpose of free travel. So looking at your budget and then sticking with card that you can definitely hit the sign up bonus is very key.

Okay, I love this. Let's talk about this for a second because this is kind of the danger of credit cards, right? Like, you can get so excited and you're like, hell yeah, I'm going to go hack all the points. I'm going to go get all the things on the credit cards. But what you really want to make sure of is that you are doing exactly what Megan just said and you're not just maxing out these credit cards or finding new ways to spend money on them just to benefit from the points. The point value is never going to outweigh the interest on a credit card. Is that a fair statement?

100%.

Okay. So if we are just getting free flights, you're paying for it in your interest on the credit cards if you're not paying off the balance. So, so this credit card hack game is a really fun game to play if you are really cognizant of your spending. And I love what you said there is find something that's going to play into what you're already spending money on. Right. And I know there's different like benefits of like, okay, if you spend money on the grocery store, if you spend money on gas, if you spend money on travel, like there's all these different credit cards out there that could help benefit. But what you don't want to do is just be like, oh, I have to hit this spend value this month. What can I go buy that wasn't already on your list? If you have things that you've been like waiting to purchase that you have the money for, like that could be a really great opportunity to go make the spend. But I love what you said about just like making sure it fits within your family's already dictated budget and aligns with your spending habits.

Yes. We're definitely using these cards for just your everyday spending. Your gas, your groceries. We're not buying anything extra than we would normally would buy. And then we're paying that card off in full every single month. So we're not accumulating any debt. And no interest rates, no late fees, nothing like that. So that when you do take those trips with these points, it actually is free travel. And I liked what you said to like if you have a big purchase coming up, like let's say you need to buy a new couch or you're remodeling your home or Christmas is coming up and you know you're going to be spending more money on Christmas presents. Those might be times where maybe you can open up one of those cards that have a little bit bigger minimum spend to get those points because you already are allocating for that expense.

Yeah. But yeah, common comment there is. It should be money that you're already planning on spending and we're just utilizing these credit card systems and these points to our benefit versus getting ourselves in more credit card debt.

Yes, we do not want any debt.

No. Okay, can we talk about this idea then? Because I think that, you know, there's this thought or fear or like overwhelming feeling when we're talking about opening up multiple credit cards. Right. There's a lot of beliefs there about how this might impact your credit, about how overwhelming it can feel to have A lot of credit cards floating around that you are or aren't using for different things. And I would just really love to hear your perspective on how to approach that from a mindset perspective and also like a strategic perspective. Like if you're utilizing this card for three months to rack up the these points and then I know what you do is you'll go then and open up another credit card and start utilizing that to benefit from those points and kind of just hop around. I would assume you have a lot of credit cards. So I just want to talk about like what does that do from like a mental standpoint and how do you stay on top of that and if there are any like myths you want to bust about opening up a multiple credit cards, like lay it on us.

All right, so the first one is, you said it. Credit score. Everybody is always worried about their credit score. Just for reference, I have over 12 credit cards. I don't even know exactly how many, but it's over 12 credit cards. They are not all in my wallet, so I do put them in the drawer when I'm not using them, but just for reference. So I open up a new credit card every three months roughly because I am chasing those signup bonuses. My husband is also doing the same. So we will open up the same credit card separately so that we can get double the amount of points. I have a credit score of over 800 and it really does help your credit score. So when you're paying those cards off in full and you're being responsible with them, it really does boost your credit score. My husband's went up over 100 points in less than a year. He actually had a really bad credit score when he started and I had to add him as an authorized user and help him build his credit. So don't worry about that. It will actually increase it as long as you're responsible and paying your cards off in full. So yeah, don't worry about that for sure. The other thing I will tell you is to stay organized. You definitely want to have the Travel Freely app. It is a completely free app. It does not connect to your bank account, which I love. And when you sign up for a card, you just put the card that you signed up for. So like Chase, Sapphire Preferred, put it in. It will show the sign up bonus. It will remind you each year when your annual fee is coming up, will remind you of your perks, all of that stuff. And so it really does keep you organized. And for me, what I do is I'll open that card And I'm only working on one card at a time to get that sign up bonus. So I'm not spending on all 12 credit cards. There's no way I would be able to keep up with that. So I have the one card I'm working on and I'll have a few credit cards that I really like to use, like the Chase in my wallet just for backup or if I need something else, for the most part, they'll just go in the drawer and I won't use them for a little while while I'm working on that next card. And don't think that you have to be opening up a new card every three months. Okay. If you're wanting to get started. I only opened up two cards in the first year that I started just to get going. So whatever that looks like for you. The reason I do three months is because that will help with your credit score. If you're trying to open up too many credit cards back to back, it's going to ping and you're going to end up dropping your credit score and getting denied for those credit cards. So you always want to wait around 90 days in between opening up credit cards. And that will keep you on the right track.

I love that. Okay. A couple nuggets. So, yes, you can open up multiple credit cards and it can help your credit score, not hurt it. As long as you're not applying for too many at once and you continue to pay the balance off on all of them.

Yes.

Amazing. And you were like expert ninja level. So in order to get benefits from this, one does not necessarily need to go open up a new credit card every quarter of the year. Right. Like, you could definitely see benefits and get some free travel out of just, you know, one to two new credit cards a year if you're going to utilize this strategy.

Yeah. And I would also say too, like, if you have a credit card now. So like I had that cash back credit card that I had since I was 18, you want to keep that card that you've had the longest open, so you don't want to close it because that really does help boost your credit score because they're looking at the age of your credit limit that you've had and so you want to keep that open. A lot of these cards that I open up for the signup bonus, let's just say two years down the road, it's got an annual fee of $300 for Uber Eats and all these other different delivery services. For me, I live in the middle of nowhere. In New Mexico. And so I don't even have Uber Eats or any of those things. So sometimes I will close a card or downgrade a card so that I'm not paying that annual fee and I make sure that I'm not spending over the amount that I would like to spend on annual fees. So I do keep track of that which travel freely. The app will do that for you as well. So do keep that in mind that you want the benefits to outweigh your annual fee on those cards. So make sure that you pick a card that is going to benefit you.

Okay. Yeah, that was definitely my next question. Like, hey, now you have 12 cards sitting around. Like, do they all have annual fees? When do you decide to cut ties with the card? And then what I'm hearing you say is that closing cards is fine. You just want to make sure you're keeping open the most like longevity card that you've got in your tool belt, which hopefully doesn't have an annual fee. If it's just going to be kind of like a starter card.

Yeah, yeah. So for the most part, you don't want to close a card within the first year of opening it or that is going to ping on your credit score. So as long as it's been over a year, you can close your card down. There's another thing you can also do. It's called a retention offer. You can either call or email the bank and say, I'm thinking about closing my card, I'm not getting the benefits I want regardless of if you are. And a lot of the times they will waive your annual fee or they'll give you another sign up bonus. And so I do this every single year with all of my cards and a lot of the time I'll get my annual fees waived. And then of course that card is benefiting me, so I will keep it.

Okay. That is such a hack. I have heard people do this before and also with just like any subscriptions that you have. It is so important for companies to retain their customer base. And so if you're like, I don't know, I feel like I could get a better deal somewhere else. They're like, bet, like, let's find you something to keep you around and then they'll hook you up. So that's such a good strategy. So everyone listening, if you go and like have credit cards or have anything that you have held for a long period of time that especially has an annual fee or even not, I would assume, right. If you're talking about closing it down. Just call the customer service and be just a kind soul and just see what they might be willing to offer you. And just go in with the attitude of like, yeah, no, there's more out there for me. Because there is. And see maybe if you can get a little retention strategy or retention bonus here.

Yeah. And if they. Even if they don't give it to you, a lot of the times there's a card below it that will have like a no annual fee and then you can just downgrade to that card and that won't show anything on your credit score because you're not closing an account. You're just going to a different card. And then when that signup bonuses come around again in like two years, you can go up and get that card again.

Love that. Such a hack. I'm literally going to have to call and see if Chase would like to refund me any money for my really wonderful rewards that they give me. But hi, annual fee. We'll see what they say. What, is there any other, like, major myths, like, when people come into your world and they are wanting to entertain this strategy into their life? Like, what would you say some common beliefs or myths or anything that people might like, it might hinder them from wanting to get started. Is there anything we haven't covered that you feel like is pretty common in the world of credit card point hacking?

I don't think so. Really, the credit score is the biggest one. And then a lot of people just assume that I have, like a ton of credit card debt and that's how I have all of these points or that I have to spend a ton of money to get all of these points. And that's just not true because I'm getting these signup bonuses and I'm only spending a couple thousand dollars to get these large chunks of points. So whatever your family spends every month, whatever your budget is there, I can promise you there's a card out there for you. I've worked with college students all the way up to CEOs, and so there's a card for everyone. And everyone can travel for free, no matter what your income level is or your experience with credit cards. And I promise you your credit score will go up.

Love, love, love, love. Can you share with us what's the coolest hack or coolest, like, reward that you've got from this or maybe like the coolest way you've utilized it to build a trip for your family?

So I'm going to give you one of the best hacks that actually has nothing to do with your credit card. When you go to a hotel and you have your reservation booked the week before you're leaving, find the manager of the hotel's email address if you can, or customer support and email them directly. And you're going to say, I'm really excited to be coming to your hotel. I've never been there before. If you have like an anniversary or a birthday or anything you're celebrating, throw that in. Give them your reservation number, your hotel loyalty number and the dates of when you're going. And 100% of the time I have done this, I have gotten an upgrade to like a VIP suite, an oceanfront room. I've had champagne waiting for me in the room. I've had treats, I got a stuffed animal for my daughter. I've gotten gift certificates, like so many things that they will give you to make you feel special on that stay. It is gold. Wow.

I have never heard anybody say that before.

Yeah.

So simple.

And it's so simple. You don't have to have status with the hotel, you don't have to have any sort of perk. Just a simple email asking for a room upgrade or something. They will give it to you.

Okay, so you're like, hey, I'm coming in next week. I'm so excited. I'm here celebrating X, Y or Z. If you happen to have an opportunity to upgrade or if there's anything special you could do to help us celebrate, we would love it so much. So looking forward to this.

Yep, simple as that.

Amazing. Okay.

I've never been denied.

Okay, I'm stealing that on my next trip. I think that's wonderful. Is there a credit card that you recommend people to get started with? Like if you are looking like what a baseline one. I know we've talked about the Chase card. Like is that typically where you tell everybody to go or is there like different things that you would look at?

Yeah. So I would 100% recommend the chase Sapphire preferred low annual fee, large sign up bonus. If you have a business, any sort of side hustle, network marketing, an llc, you coach on the side, definitely look into the Chase Inc. Business credit cards. There are two of them that have very large sign up bonuses and are $0 annual fees. So it's a no brainer. And then outside of that, I think another really good beginner credit card is the Capital One Venture card because those points can literally be used for absolutely anything from flights to hotels to Airbnbs. So it's just a good like all around flexible point card. As well.

Love that. Okay, wonderful. And how do you work with people? Like, if somebody wants to start getting into this world, can you share a little bit about how? Have you turned this into a way to support other people on their journey?

Yeah. So if you are just new and you're wanting to dive into points and miles, then I have a travel tribe. At membership, it's only 27amonth, very easy access. You'll get a guide on how to get started. There's over 10 guides in there. Disney, Hawaii, all kinds of different things. We do monthly zoom calls so you can ask live questions. You can get help booking your personal travel. And then for someone who has like a big trip that they want to take, like Italy or Bali, and they really want like first class seats, or you're wanting something really specific and working one on one with me is the way to go. And you basically get like a travel agent slash points expert. And we get everything planned and booked for you with points for the best deals. So those are really the two best ways to work with me.

I love and I've shared with you. I'm trying to fly first class to Bali next summer and your girl needs some help to strategize because I would like to be in a first class seat and I would love to do it for free. So we got some. We got some planning to do there.

Definitely.

I love it. Okay, Megan, I've got two last questions for you. One of them is, what is your favorite book? What is a book that you would recommend either in your niche or just totally random that the people need to read?

Mine is Miracle Morning. That one is like one of the first ones that I read. Such a good book there. I don't really have any travel books that I've read. Shockingly minor, like personal development cards. Yeah. Yeah. Miracle Morning is probably the top one.

That's good. We're all personal development girlies here. I agree. That was one of the first books that I read that really kickstarted my morning routine journey. So I think that's a really, really great one. And just side note, maybe if there's no good travel books out there, maybe that means you need to write us one and give us all the tips.

Maybe. We'll see.

And then last question for you. What is one thing that you are busy getting better at right now in your life?

Oh, that one's a really, really good one. Honestly, it's super simple, but I am really working on like budgeting and figuring out what we are spending and what categories and Kind of how we can put more money towards a high yield savings account. That's really what we're focusing on right now, just trying to build some of that wealth. So I downloaded the buddy app and I'm just working on, like, really being like, mindful of the different categories that we're spending in and what can go and what we kind of want to prioritize.

So I love you're talking my talk now.

I know that came out of nowhere, but that's what I'm working on.

I love it. See, everyone's getting better at their budgeting. We love to see it. Say the app again. I'm not sure if I've heard of this one.

It's the buddy app, so I don't like the ones that hook to your bank account. And so this one, you just go in and you put in the expense with the category and you can set your planned budget for each month. And it's just like, it's really visual, which I like.

I love that. Okay, I'll have to check it out and I'll link it in the show notes. For anybody that's looking for an app that doesn't link to your bank account, the one I use does link to the bank account and I know people have security concerns that they don't want their information out there. So I love to have an option that doesn't allow for that. So I'll check it out and thanks for sharing.

Yeah, no problem.

I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on and answering all of my travel questions. I know that everyone's going to get so much value from this. How can they find you after this? If they're interested in your membership, if they want to work one on one, if they just want to follow along. I know you mentioned your email as well that you share all of the little tips and tricks with. So give us a little bit of information about how everybody can find you. Listen to you, all that good stuff.

Yeah, definitely go follow over on Instagram. That's where I like to hang out. It's at Points to Paradise. And then my podcast is also named the same Points to Paradise where we talk about all things traveling with points.

I love it. Okay, wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being here. I will link all that stuff in the show notes for you guys to check her out. And if you have a trip coming up or you just want to get better at this, I definitely recommend going and following along on her journey and seeing how you can start to hack your credit card points and travel for free.