https://www.listennotes.com/e/610e275997644f269725e05e7b1b18fd

Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another Women to Women podcast series. We talk about hormones, we talk about weight, we talk about adrenals and trauma. And today, I'm so excited because I've been waiting to talk to you for a long time, Deb, who's really, in my opinion, one of the best experts with regards to the emotional components to kind of our lives in a different way, talking about betrayal. So let me introduce you to Dr. Deb Silber. She's the founder of Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and a holistic psychologist, as well as a health mindset and personal development expert. She's the author of number one best-selling book, the Unshakable Woman. I love that title. Four Steps to Rebuilding youg Body, Mind, and Life After a Life Crisis. which we all have. And her newest book, Truth Again: Overcoming Betrayal and Regaining Health, Confidence and Happiness. Her recent PBS study on how we experience betrayal made three groundbreaking discoveries that changed how long it takes to heal. And I'm sure we'll be talking about some of that today. In addition to being on Fox, CBC, the Dr. Oz Show, TEDx, and more, she's an award-winning speaker, coach, and author dedicated to helping people move past the betrayals, as well as any other blocks preventing them from their wealth, health, work, relationships, confidence and happiness they want. I added another word in there. Anyway, thank you so much, Deb, for being here and talking about some of these things no one ever talks about.

Yeah, this is a heavy topic, but I'm excited to chat with you and thank you so much for having me.

Absolutely. The more we can get the word out, the better. Let's start with why This betrayal hurt so much for people, you know, what does it do and how, you know, how do we understand that we can actually change that ourselves?

You know, but and and I'll get into why I'm studying betrayal because I don't think anybody wakes up and says, oh, you know what? I think I want to study betrayal. That's the topic that's interesting here. Of course, I've been through betrayals myself, one from my family and then I thought I did what I needed to do to heal and then my husband. So just to back up, I was looking at those two experiences and I was like, what's common here? And I realized I never had boundaries in place. It was never about me. And so here I was, I had four kids, six dogs, and I was 50. And I was like, that's it. I'm going back for a PhD. Something has to change. And it was in transpersonal psychology, the psychology of transformation and human potential, because I was changing. I didn't quite understand it. He was too, but I wasn't interested in looking at that right then. And then I did a study. I did a study on betrayal. What holds us back? What helps us heal? And what happens to us physically, mentally, and emotionally, which is the part you're gonna love, when the people closest to us lie, cheat, and deceive. So that study led to three groundbreaking discoveries. Anyway, to answer your question, it hurts so much because this is the person, these are the people who gave us a sense of safety and security. So when this is the person, these are the people to shatter. that very sense of safety and security, it's terrifying. It's terrifying. You know, when this is the person you trust the most and that person becomes untrustworthy, who do you trust? When this is the person you run to and other people are causing the harm and they're the ones causing the harm, where do you go? So it shatters all of it. The good news is you can heal from all of it.

So, I mean, I think the piece that no one really talks about is, putting the puzzle together with regards to how it affects our health, how it affects our mental health, but also how it affects what we choose to do with that information, because sometimes we slow down.

Yeah. And you know, that was one of the discoveries we actually found that there's a collection of symptoms, physical, mental and emotional, so common to betrayal, it's now known as post betrayal syndrome. We've had about 25,000 people take our post betrayal syndrome quiz on our site to see to what extent people are struggling. And every couple of months, I pull the stats. just to see where people are at. So this is every age group, almost every country is represented. And I have some stats to share for you, and I feel like your audience is going to really appreciate these. So now this is out of 25,000 people. Ready? 78% constantly revisit their experience. 81% feel a loss of personal power. 80% are hypervigilant. Think about how exhausting that is. Right? 94% deal with painful triggers. Here are the most common physical symptoms. Ready? 71% have low energy. 68% struggle with their sleep. 63% have extreme fatigue. They're your adrenals totally shot. 47% have weight changes. So in the beginning, maybe you can't hold food down. Then you use food for comfort. 45% have digestive issues. That could be anything, constipation, diarrhea, IBS, Crohn's, you name it. And what I love about this so much, what's so interesting is think about what the gut does. Absorbs digestive processes food. Well, isn't a betrayal difficult to absorb digestive process? Is there any wonder why the gut is off? The mental, these are the most common mental symptoms. 78% 70% are walking around in a state of disbelief. 68% unable to focus. 64% are in shock. 62% are unable to concentrate. So just take, let's say you're unable to concentrate. You have a gut issue and you're exhausted and you're still trying to get through your day. Work, manage your kids, whatever you need to deal with your kids, whatever you're doing. Here are the emotional ones. 88% extreme sadness, 83% anger. Anger and sadness, when you bounce back and forth even between those two, that's exhausting. 82% feel hurt, 80% have anxiety, 79% are stressed. Here's why I wrote the book, Trust Again. Ready? 84% have an inability to trust. 67% prevent themselves from forming deep relationships because they're afraid of being hurt again. 82% find it hard to move forward. 90% wanna move forward, but they don't know how. Crazy, right? Whoa. Yeah.

So when we talk about betrayal, Deb, really kind of, can you give us an idea about what that means? I mean, generally people are kind of like, well, yeah, my, you know, my father or something or other, but really it's something a little deeper than that.

Definitely. So I define it as the breaking of a spoken or unspoken rule, and every relationship has them. The way it works is the more you trust and the more you depend on that person, the deeper the betrayal. So for example, a child who is completely dependent on their parent and then the parent does something awful, that's going to have a different impact than let's say your coworker taking credit for your idea. We had an unspoken rule. I was going to show up, we were going to have a conversation. If I didn't, I would have betrayed you. Now that wouldn't have crushed you, right? But the way it works is the more time, energy, heart, you know, dependency, the deeper the betrayal. and that's why, you know, originally in the study that I did, I was studying the Betrayal of a family member, partner, friend. And I had to drop the friend part. And what I, because what I learned was, while friends can aggravate us, make us so angry, they don't break us. Of course, we're never broken bent. You know what I mean? Like the family member and the partner. Those are the ones that bring us to our knees. When we're betrayed by those people, that's what really gets us. And, you know, and it happened with me, with both of them. So I get it.

Now, when that happens, my experience has been with patients for sure that they then wall themselves off and almost say unconsciously, never again.

Yeah.

I will never, and that then includes relationships, you know, future relationships. which is it's not going to happen to me again. And then they start wondering, why am I having these dead-end relationships that aren't going anywhere? Where's the energy coming from from them creating a new type of relationship? Where have you kind of get that?

And think about the energy it takes just to keep that wall up, just to keep that in place. And here's the thing, I can spot an unhealed betrayal from a mile away. And we see it in health, in work, in relationships. In relationships, that's exactly one of the ways we'll see it. We'll see it where either there's a repeat betrayal, that's an unhealed betrayal. The face has changed, but it's the same thing. And people ask me all the time, what the heck? I go from partner to partner, friend to friend, co-worker to co-worker. Is it me? Yes, it is. Not that you're causing it, but there's a profound lesson waiting to be learned until and unless you do. You keep getting opportunities to learn it. so we'll see it that way. The other way is that big wall goes up, you know, been there, done that, no one's getting near my heart again. And we think it's coming from a place of strength. It's not. It's coming from fear. That's like saying, well, I got burned on the stove, so I'm never cooking again. You know, it's, there's an interest again. I teach a four-step trust rebuilding process. If we have time, I'm happy to go through it. We need to learn that again because otherwise, we're living half a life. If we don't allow anybody to get close to us, there's no intimacy, there's no relationship, what kind of life is that, right? We see it in health too. People go to the most well-meaning doctors, coaches, healers, therapists to manage, and you see this all the time, I'm sure, a stress-related symptom, illness, condition, disease, and at the root of it is an unhealed betrayal. We see it at work too. People want to ask for that raise or promotion, they deserve it, but their confidence is shattered. So they don't have the confidence to ask, they're bitter and resentful instead. or they want to be a team player, but the person they trusted the most proved untrustworthy. How do they trust that boss, that coworker, that collaborative partner shows up everywhere?

So do you have tips for people to kind of number one, figure out if they've had betrayal in their lives? And number two, the notion that they can actually heal from that and how do they do that?

Yeah, well, first of all, you can heal from all of it. We have the proof. And one of the most exciting things is, and this was the second discovery, that while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime, and so many of us do, if we're going to fully heal, we're going to move through five now proven predictable stages. And what's even more exciting about that is we know what happens physically, mentally, and emotionally at every one of those stages, and we know what it takes to move from one stage to the next. So now healing is predictable. and I'm happy to go through the five stages. Let's do it.

Let's do it.

Sure. Okay. And I map them all out in trust again, but here's like a brief summary and it's what we teach within the PBT Institute. But here you go. So the first was, this was like a setup stage and I saw this with every study participant, me too. If you imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional and spiritual, what I saw with everybody was this heavy lean on the physical and the mental. and kind of ignoring the emotional and the spiritual. So what does that look like? Looks like we're really good at thinking and doing and not really prioritizing the feeling and being. But that's where intuition lies and we turn that down. Not to say if you're just thinking and doing, it's a setup for betrayal. It's just what I saw. Anyway, that's stage one, stage two. This is, but if a table only has two legs, easy for the table to topple over, that's us. Stage two, by far the scariest stage, and this is shock, trauma, D-Day, discovery day, and this is the breakdown of the body, the mind, the worldview. So you've ignited the stress response. Now you're headed for every single stress related symptom illness, condition, disease. Your mind is in a complete state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around the information you just learned. It's like a weird time warp thing that's happening now. your worldview is shattered. That's your mental model. These people are okay, don't go there. These are the rules about how life works. And in a moment, all the rules are destroyed. Makes no sense. The bottom has bottomed out. But think about it. If the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You would grab hold of anything and everything you could to stay safe and stay alive. That's stage three. Survival instincts emerge. It's the most practical. of all of the stages. If you can't help me get out of my way, how do I survive this experience? Where do I go? How do I feed my kids? It's so practical. But here's the trap. Once you've figured out how to survive, because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma of where you just came from, you think it's good. So we're like, okay, all right, we got this. And you start planning routes here. You're not supposed to. So a few things start happening. The first thing is you start getting these small self benefits. You get to be right. You get someone to blame. You get a target for your anger. You get sympathy from everybody you tell your story to. You don't have to do the hard work of learning to trust again. Should I trust you? Should I trust you? Forget it, I'm not going to trust anybody. And you start planning deeper roots. And then the mind starts doing things like, because now you're here a little while, well, you know, mine starts doing things like, well, maybe you deserved it. Maybe you're not that great. Maybe, maybe, right? Deeper roots. And then because like energy attracts like energy, now you're calling situations and circumstances and relationships towards you to confirm this is where you belong. It gets worse, I'll get you out of here. Because it feels so bad, but you have no idea there's a stage four in stage five waiting. Right here is where you resign yourself, well, this is as good as it gets. I better find a way to get used to it. So right here is where you start using food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, keeping busy, reckless behavior to numb and avoid and distract yourself from what's painful to feel or face. So think about it. You do this for a day, a week, a month, now it's a habit, a year, five years, 10 years, 20 years, and I can see someone 20 years out and say, that emotional eating you're doing, that numbing in front of the TV you're doing, that diving into work to avoid life you're doing. Do you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? And Marcel they would look at me like I'm crazy. They'd say, oh my gosh, that happened 20 years ago. But do you see all they did was put themselves in a perpetual holding pattern that whole time. That's why that's the most challenging of all of the stages, because that's the one that's so easy to get stuck in. Anyway, if you're willing to give up the small self benefits and everything that goes along with it, grieve more than the last few things you need to do, you move to stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. So here's where you acknowledge, I can't undo my betrayal, but I can control what I do with it. So I always use the example of if you were ever to move to a new house, office, condo, apartment, whatever, you don't have all your stuff there. It's not quite cozy yet, but it's going to be okay. And when you're in this mental state, you're starting to turn down the stress response. You're not healing just yet, but now you stopped causing the massive damage you were causing in stage two and stage three. What's so interesting about stage four also is if you were to move, you don't take everything with you, right? You don't take the stuff that doesn't represent the version of you you want to be in your new space. And what I found so interesting with people moving from stage three to stage four, if your friends weren't there for you, Right here's where you've outgrown them. You don't take them with you. And people say to me all the time, what the heck? I've had these friends 10, 20, 30 years. Is it me? Yes, it is. You're undergoing a transformation. You've just outgrown them. Anyway, when you're in stage four, you're making it cozy. You're making it home, mentally, emotionally home. You move into stage five, most beautiful stage. And this is healing, rebirth and a new worldview. The body starts to heal. Self-love, self-care, eating well, exercise, You didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier. You were surviving. Now you do. Your mind is healing. You're making new rules, new boundaries based on what you're seeing so clearly. And you have a new world view based on your entire experience. And the four legs of the table, in the beginning it was just the physical and the mental. By this point we're solidly grounded because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too. Those are the five stages.

How long does it take for people to be able to kind of do that kind of work?

You know, when I was doing the research, I assumed, you know, as a researcher, you're not supposed to, but I was new with this. I thought, well, you know, the people who were the hardest hit would grow the least because they had the most to overcome. That had nothing in the world to do with it. Willingness had so much to do with it. And what I found was there were also, there were three groups who did not heal. And one was the group who just refused to accept it. They had their story and they were like, these people, that's it. I have my story. I'm sticking with it. Did not heal. Second group was the group that was numbing, avoiding, distracting. May have made the day a bit easier to get through, not without a price. They didn't heal. The third group, this was interesting. This was the group where the betrayer had no consequences. So whether this was out of religious reasons, financial fear, not wanting to break up a family fear in general, whatever, they did their best to just try to put it behind them, try to ignore it, try to overlook it. I only saw two things with this group, a further deterioration of the relationship, and by far hands down this group was the most physically sick. Your heart can't handle that, right? what I saw as far as movement was, it was the ones who put their head down, listen, and I was one of them, I was like, I am putting my head down, I am not picking it up till I am out the other side of this. Those are the ones who healed the quickest and the ones who had the right type of support and who handled it also. Betrayal, we think, oh, let me just seek therapy. That's good cognitively, but this hits us physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually. So if you wanna fully heal, you have to address all of it. When you do, and when you are willing, those are the ones who heal the fastest.

So one of the things that I see all the time in my practice is the unwillingness to understand that our story, one of the things that I say to everybody, Deb, is if we don't deal with our story, whatever that is, our story will deal with us. And there's so many people that are so resistant to it saying, it's not in my head, Marcel. It's like, no, it's not. We know now biochemically that the head and the, you know, is kind of connected to the body with the neck.

So it does affect the body, that.

There'S a huge relationship between how much pain we carry, what we think about all the time, and how it changes our neurotransmitters, how it changes our adrenals and so on. And then effectively it changes our kind of energy, which is affecting who we have come into our lives.

100%. 100%.

As astounding to me how so few people connect the dots. You know, even when I talk about the ACE study and how huge that study was and how much is now I teach for IFM and I do hormone modules. So I always have to keep the most recent information about what stress doing to us physically. Adrenal issues that cause autoimmune issues, more immune dysfunction, cardiac diseases, GI problems, GI cancers. It's huge.

Huge, huge, huge. And what I find too, you mentioned the ACE study. There are so many people coming from this history of family betrayal, even from a very young age or some sort of hardship. And then what happens is, so that's how you're wired. So you move into these relationships, not because they're good, because they're so familiar. It's like, oh, I know that. I know that pain. That's familiar. I get it. And it's like the devil, you know. And here's what I find so interesting as well. When it comes to healing, I find so many people don't, especially when it comes to, let's say, a relational betrayal. They're so afraid of the death and destruction of the old, but it's only with that can you rebirth the new. Like with my husband, that was the deal breaker. That was it. So here I was, I'm like, I don't know what, I wasn't counting on this. I didn't want this, but that was the deal breaker. Now here's what's interesting. I was focused on my healing, having no interest in anything else but I'm going to heal and if I can heal, I'm taking everybody with me. Like that was my own intention. On his own, he did the same thing as well. I mean, if anything has you fall from grace, he was actually the one who told our kids, you know, it's, it's, you're four teenagers looking at you like you did what to, to our mom. And so talk about the wake up and the shake up on that end. But we teach within the PBT Institute. How do you know if it's safe in your best interest just to heal yourself and move on? That's what I did with my family. I wasn't really working with anything. Or how do you know if it's safe and in your best interest, if you're willing, if you want to, if the situation lends itself to rebuild something entirely new with that person? And that's what I did with my husband. So not long ago, we married each other again. As two totally different people, But what I found is betrayal is the setup for transformation because of that death and destruction of the old. But people just try to patch it up, you know, and people ask me all the time when it comes to the shattering of trust, do you think trust can be repaired? And I say no. Can it be rebuilt?

Yes.

It's a monster project. and I look at trust like a brick wall. The only way I know of is it gets put up brick by brick by brick. Now imagine the person who built the brick wall shatters the entire thing. You can look at the brick wall and say, I don't have the least bit interest in watching that thing get rebuilt. However, if you do, you have to be willing and that person has to be a really good brick layer. Every opportunity they have to show that they're trustworthy, that's one brick in that wall and it goes back up brick by brick by brick.

So it takes time. Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about the difference between post-traumatic stress and this betrayal concept. How are they different and how do they portray themselves?

Yeah.

You know, is which.

Yeah, well, so like PTSD, that is very common to betrayal. I think we look at, we think of PTSD, it's reserved for the war vets. They hear a car backfire, they're back in war. And with betrayal, we could be triggered and we're right back there to D-Day Discovery Day. So it's very real. This was the third discovery. Originally, I was studying betrayal and post-traumatic growth. Because I like positive, you know, and betrayal is such a dark topic. So I was like, what kind of positive can we get from something like this? And post-traumatic growth, for those who don't know, it's sort of like if you imagine the upside of trauma. How trauma leaves you with a new awareness perspective insight that you didn't have. like you lose someone you love and you realize, wow, life is short, something like that. You know, of course there's more to it, but I was like, you know, I've been through a death of a loved one. I've been through disease. You can appreciate this. I had peritonitis. I was in ICU for 11 days. Miracle, I'm alive, right? But I was like, no, no, betrayal is a different thing. I didn't want to assume. So I asked all my study participants and I said, if you've been through other crises, Does it feel different for you? Hands down, unanimously, they said, oh my gosh, it's so different. And here's why. Because it feels so intentional, we take it so personally. So the whole self gets shattered. Rejection, abandonment, trust, confidence, worthiness, belonging, they're shattered, right? They all have to be rebuilt. So if I were to give you an equation, it would look like this. Post traumatic growth plus rebuilding the self equals a new term I coined which is now called post betrayal transformation. The complete and total rebuild of your life and yourself after betrayal.

One of the things that I see in my practice is for people that are do, you know, having those experiences is the word they cut, they always say to me is, I've been here before. It feels so familiar.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's the piece in which I say, well, you know, let's begin to kind of look at what that's all about because they attract the same kind of partner over and over again or whatever, and they're really right back to where they started. How long does it take for those people to, you know, what do I say to them? How long is it going to take for them to kind of come to the other side of, you know, and we talk about self-care we talk about exercise, we talk about, you know, journaling, we talk about meditation. We talk about, you know, affirmations.

Yeah, there's the biggest, like I said, the biggest thing here is willingness to move through the stages. I mean, now there is a predictable roadmap. We have it. It's the five stages from betrayal to breakthrough. It is predictable. We know if you do, you know, these things physically, mentally, and emotionally, if that's what you're experiencing, this is what stage you're in. We know what it takes to move from one to the next. So there is a roadmap for it now. that's the simplest and it's in trust again or it's within our community, it's what we teach. Having said that, that's the fact, I mean that's a factor, they have to know where they are. They also have to check in with themselves. If something is so familiar, remember I said before a repeat betrayal means it's an unhealed betrayal. And I find with so many people, they're so uncomfortable, they're so sad, they're so There's, they just want this pain to go away. So whether it's with the same person or with someone else, they just try to, it's like, okay, you know what? Instead of me healing, let me just be with you. And you know what that's like, remember the brick wall I just explained? That's like the brick wall gets built, it gets shattered, and the person who's been betrayed says, Don't worry about rebuilding the bridge, I'll rebuild it. No. And that's, it's like, you know, that's why I can't stand that whole you complete me thing. I hate that. Because it's like, I'm a half, so the only thing I can do is find another half, we'll be a whole. Well, what happens if something happens to that half? Right? After betrayal, here is the golden opportunity to make yourself so healthy, so healed, so whole, so strong, then you're a whole, you meet up with another whole, whether it's that betrayer who woke up just as much as you did, Or, you know, at the, you know, the other scenario is you're resonating at a whole different level and you attract someone very different. The biggest mistake I see people, you see this, watch this, you will never forget this as long as you live. We're here, right? And then we have a betrayal, everything crashes and we're so unhappy. We just want to be here. But I encourage everybody to do the work to grow here. But what happens is if we're so committed, well, that's it. I just want to be with someone here. This is what happens. We do this and we're like, all right. And we keep doing this because they're here and we keep doing this, but we like it here. We keep doing this and then, you know, and then we're like, well, why can't they do this? Well, because you signed up for this. That's why. So we do this and then, you know, we get this. You look at them and they're like, you know, and they're like, oh, I didn't sign up for that. And you're like, I'm not really the least bit interested in you. So what happens is, You know, this or you have a few options. You do this, that's your intention. This person on their own can say, I better step it up to meet the strength of this person. They do that. But either way, you do this and then regardless, this shows up. So getting out of this and then just doing this again, no. Then all you can expect is more of the same. You have to do something so drastic. It's so hard. It's so scary. I get it. That's where transformation begins when you tell yourself the truth.

So the part I want to reiterate for those of you listening is how important this concept is with regards to your physical health. I am an adrenal expert. I see people with adrenal issues all the time and I see the same people coming back over and over again. and what I talk about, I talk about trauma instead of betrayal, but it's the same type of thing. What's wounded you so much that what's happening now is you've got the same thing you're thinking over and over again. You're creating the same situations. You're not happy about yourself. You're making the same choices. If that doesn't get healed, cortisol gets produced. It affects the immune system, affects our gut, affects our hormones, affects our thyroid.

Makes us sick, makes us sick. you see it every day. And that's it. At the root of it, very often is an unhealed betrayal.

Yep, absolutely. And we call it trauma betrayal. I mean, I love the way that you're putting it together because it's exactly what it is. And if we have parents and we expect our parents to be God, which they are, it's the only thing we know is kids, and something happens in that way, they're very abusive, they are physically abusive, they don't talk to you for two weeks at a time, All of those are wounds that happen that then are doing what you're talking about, which I absolutely adore.

Yeah.

So how do people learn to trust again?

You know, it's, and I, this is, this is what I see so often is they race to trust the other person. And there are steps that have to happen before they get there. So can I share the four step trust rebuilding process?

Please do absolutely.

Are you kidding? Why not? Okay, because what happens with betrayal is we don't trust our betrayer, but we also don't trust ourselves because we're like, I'm a great person. How did I not see?

How did I not know?

How did this go on under my nose? And we lose trust in everybody else. So our foundation is rocked, shattered. So we have to rebuild at the very foundation. So that's where we start. So we start as simple as in level one is you build that foundation again with something so obvious. I'm talking like, will the sun rise? I don't know. I don't trust that. Well, go out and look, you know, and you do that a couple times till you're like, you know what? I can count on that. Okay. That gives me a foundation upon which to stand. And then from there, now you have a. A place to stand. You feel like, okay, if I can't trust in anything else, I can trust that the sun will rise from there. You have to trust in your gut. You have to learn to trust in that wise inner guide, because, you know, we turn that down, so. What we need to do is look at, you wanna come up with a scenario of what does trust, what does truth feel like for you? 'Cause it's different for everyone. Picture two babies laughing, picture your dog wagging his or her tail, whatever. What does that feel like? You know, what is the felt sense in your body, in your heart, in your mind? And you just feel open, expansive. What does it feel like for you? that's what trust and truth feels like. Lock that in. And then you go back to D-Day Discovery Day or you go back to when someone was lying to you, right to your face. What did that feel like for you? Picture it. Feel contracted, small, tight. You felt it in your gut. Where'd you feel that? That's what a lack of trust feels like for you. And what you want to do is you want and then lock it in. And then now this is your measure. And as you're going about your day, and you're interacting with people, which feeling are you getting? Closer to the baby's laughing or closer to that sense of mistrust, right? So you want to strengthen that and you'll feel this sense of safety and security build because you're like, okay, you know what? I can trust that. Or it's like if you're looking at someone and you know how sometimes like the words, the mannerisms, the actions don't line up. It's not congruent. Trust that, trust that, everything should line up. So you want to trust that and when you do, you'll feel the sense of safety and security start to build. So you have your foundation, now you have a beginning of a sense of safety and security, that's level two. The third phase of this is you have to learn to trust in yourself again because we lost trust in ourselves. So to do that, you give yourself little tasks and then you do them. I'm going to drink that glass of water and then I do, I'm going to make that phone call and then you do, I will not talk to my ex and then you don't whatever it is and what you're doing is you're teaching yourself my word is law. If I say something, I mean it. I am trustworthy and that builds a sense of strength and safety and security. So now imagine you have this foundation again, right? I trust the sun is rising. If all else fails, the sun will rise. I trust my gut. I trust my wise inner guide, my intuition. I trust myself. From there, we slowly, cautiously and carefully begin to trust others. But it's when we bypass all that we're like, I just don't like this feeling. It's so painful. It's so uncomfortable. Fine, I'll just trust you again. Nope, nope. That fires every time.

But if we think about our society at this point, you know, we have 88% of our population in the United metabolically unfit, meaning they're probably not eating properly or they're drinking too much alcohol or whatever. You know, if we really think about that, I can pretty guarantee you that many people fall into this category and they are so not willing to say, wait a minute, you know, I'm not a bad person. I just need to understand how do I heal this for myself and how do I get better on the other side?

Yeah, that's it. And. And there's so much fear. fear because without our awareness or consent, someone decided to break these spoken or unspoken rules. We were abiding by the rules. We're like, okay, these are rules. Fine. Like, I live so simply, and it's. If it's going to hurt someone, don't do it, period, end of story. And I assume everybody else lives that same way. So it's always a big shocker to me when that's not the case, right?

So.

What does it take? It takes learning to trust my gut, trust myself, because everybody has their own agenda. Everybody's walking their own path. Everybody is doing the best they can from their current level of consciousness. Someone awaken aware wouldn't hurt a fly. Someone sleepwalking through life is unconsciously doing a lot of damage.

Yep, absolutely. And the thing is that the consequences are pretty grave. If we start to understand that there's a relationship between this type of pain that we bury, choices that we make, the lack of exercise that we have, it actually affects how long we're going to be alive.

100%.

We have enough data about that now.

That.

It'S up to us to make those choices so that we actually can be healthy like the blue zones into our 90s and older. There's no question about it. We have the data and the science to show that.

You're so right.

Your point is so important for so many people to bring home and know, number one, it can be healed. And number two, there's ways to do it and it's not going to take the rest of your life, which is adore that. It's fabulous.

I'm so glad.

So if people want to learn more about you and they want to work with you or they want to work with other people, because I think this will resonate with so many people, where, how do they do that?

You know what I really recommend is take the post betrayal syndrome quiz to see to what extent you're struggling. You can find that at thepbt, as in post betrayal transformation, thepbtinstitute.com/quiz. That's a great place to start. Of course, we have the PBT Institute with our certified coaches and programs and live daily classes and so much more, but the quiz is a wonderful place to start.

And one of the things we're going to do is there will be something in the show notes. so you can look at the quiz, there'll be a link to that as well. And if they want to read a book, if they want to kind of follow a blog from you, how do they do that?

Yeah, actually, if they want to get the book Trust Again, they should get check in with the link I'm going to give you because then when you get it from Amazon, come back to the link and I'm going to give you all kinds of bonuses. So they can just go to the PBT, again, Post Betrayal Transformation. ThePBTInstitute.com/TrustAgain. And what that book is, it's actually the PhD dissertation made very reader friendly because I looked at it and I was like, I only have three people reading this and I have about 500 plus hours and 250 studies. So anyway, in TrustAgain, it's well, it's my very personal story. It's all the participants' story. So you can see you're not alone, you're not crazy. It's the five stages all mapped out with experiential exercises moving you from one to the next. The 4-Step Trust Rebuilding Process, it's all in there.

Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous. Well, thank you so much for today. It's one of the favorite things I like to talk about because I think so many people don't address it. And we're kind of skirting all the issues health-wise and everything else and coming down to the bottom line. This is, in my opinion, where it's at. so thank you for the work that you do.

Thank you so much. It's people like you who give people like me a voice. Thank you. Absolutely.

Anytime I can.