0231 | Building Exceptional Teams & Creating High Performance Cultures with Founder of Ugly Mug Marketing Wayne Mullins

Hey, this is Wayne with Ugly Mug Marketing and you are listening to EA interviews.

EA interviews, episode 231, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week, join Mario Ficcini for today's expert authority effect interview. Do you want more likes? Do you want more interaction with your social media? Do you want your marketing to actually work once, you know, in your lifetime? Because there's that old saying of I, I know my advertising is working, but I don't know which half. You know, I believe that was from Ogilvy 50 50. You know, marketing is something that is absolutely crucial and needed for your company.

But do you have a grasp on it? I'm excited to have the CEO and founder of Ugly Mug Marketing, Wayne Mullins on today's show because we're going to be talking about the only thing that really matters and that's the results. I'm going to bring them up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Wayne Mullins. Wayne, how are you feeling today?

I'm great, Mario. Thank you so much for having me on.

I'm excited for you to be here because marketing is one of those things I feel that everyone knows they need, but no one really knows what they're doing unless you know what you're doing. Would you agree?

I do agree. It's such a simple concept, yet so profound at the same time.

Why do you think so many people struggle with it?

You know, Mario, I think honestly a big part of the struggle has to do with the fact that most people confuse marketing and advertising. They really don't understand the difference between the two. And so until you understand the differences between those two things, you can't do either of those successfully.

Why don't you tell Expert Authority World what is the difference from advertising and marketing?

So advertising and marketing, the differences would be this advertising is merely one small piece or one component of marketing. And when most people think of marketing, they only think of advertising. But we at Ugly Mug Marketing kind of like to define marketing as very simple definition, but your ability to both attract and to keep a customer, that is it in its simplest form. It's those two functions. But when you hear that definition, most people don't think of that last half. Right? They don't think about the keeping part as actually part of their marketing. They only think of the attraction side. So once you get clear about those two things, both attracting and keeping, everything else, then can get easier.

What's the importance of keeping them and not just getting them?

Great question. And, you know, it's obviously easier to resell people who already know you, like you, and trust you. And when you keep a customer and when you do it correctly, what we would say is we can turn those customers into evangelists. Evangelists for our brand, evangelist for our product, evangelists for our service. And when your marketing is working correctly and all in unison and all kind of under one strategic thing, part of your marketing plan will be some very specific ways that you can convert customers into evangelists for your brand.

So you're not talking, you're not, you're not just talking about taking a transactional approach and saying, hey, we got one, we're good. You're talking about finding the right people, keeping them, and then having them essentially do the marketing for you.

That's absolutely it, Mario. Spot on. That's it. All too often I think that as entrepreneurs, as business owners, or even as marketers, we get in this cycle of our job is to find the new customers, bring the new customers in, and then it's the fulfillments team to take care of those people. And we've moved on to finding the next new people. And I think if we will kind of shift our mindset away from just the attraction side, but into the keeping side and we begin working with the fulfillment team, we begin working with everything that happens post sell, we can engineer some very specific things to actually do what you just said. Turn those people into basically advertisers on our behalf.

Are you open to sharing some of that? Because I would love to know what can you do once you get someone? Because there's a million and one different ways to, you know, help. I would like to say help someone, not just get them. And I want to dive into that. But once someone does have someone and they're like, hey, we chose you. We trust you, we know you, we like you. We. We want to go with you. What would you advise someone to be doing to keep them longer term instead of just, you know, transactional.

Yeah. So I've got a few specific things I'll mention, but first, let me kind of step back one step just so we have full context on how do we actually get here. And so we. We use this term called the natural progression. And what the natural progression is, Mario, is it's it's the natural way that every single human being makes buying decisions and possibly becomes evangelist for a brand. So the way we explain this is if you think of an old analog clock, so a circular clock hanging up on the wall, it's got the hour hand, the minute hand, the second hand, and at the very top, you've got the 12 o' clock position. And in the 12 o' clock position, you have what we would call strangers. Those are people that you and I believe may be a good fit for our brand. Okay. At the 3 o' clock position, we have friends. So those are people that at least know about us at this point. They like us a little bit. And then at the six o' clock position, we have customers. That's the point where, you know, the wallet comes out of the pocket, they hand us the money, we fulfill the service or we deliver the product to them. Now, for most people, again, we just talked about this, but that is kind of the end of the marketing cycle for us. We like to teach that over Here at the 9:00 clock position is where you have evangelists. Now, here's the beautiful thing about this. When you create evangelist, you bypass the entire stranger portion, because what happens, all of these evangelists go out and tell their friends about you. So that is the natural progression. And the reason I say that it's the way that people naturally flow through this process is because it really leans very heavily on kind of some human psychology. It leans on selling. And what I mean by that is, when someone's a stranger out here at the 12 o' clock position, what we have to do to get them to become a friend is A, they have to know about us. Common sense. Right.

B, that's where some of that advertising might come in.

Exactly.

Just out there, just so you know. So people know you're out there.

Yep. But again, keep in mind, when we think of the natural progression, we think of this framework. The way we advertise to people in these different positions will change based on where we're trying to move them. What we often find is that people expect too much from their advertising. And what I mean by that is they believe that they can run, go put up one Facebook post, run one campaign, run one radio spot, and magically move people from strangers all the way to customer evangelists for them. And it just doesn't work that way. So we've got to first get them to know about us, get them to like us a little bit. And now they're friend. Right. They're interested in what we're doing, and they're curious to learn more. Now, the next step to move them from a friend into a customer is one big element, and that is trust. So, you know, if you were to think back through your marketing and advertising, the question then becomes, up here, moving strangers to friends. I need to put things out there that one, get people to know about us, which we would recommend, starting with customer avatar. Right? Yeah, you may be familiar with that. But building out, who are these strangers out there? Who is our ideal customers that we believe are out there that we could reach? And then once they become friends, the next step is, how do we move these friends? How do we build that trusting relationship so that they believe our product, our service, our company, our brand will actually deliver more value than they get when they pull out their wallet and give us those things? So, yep, go ahead.

What would you say is a realistic time frame to move someone through all these? You got me thinking. I love the clock analogy. You know, you're moving through it and everything. What is a realistic time frame to be doing? Some of this can, because you're saying people expect too much from their advertising. You know, they're trying to move them through too quickly. I realize it probably isn't two, three years in most businesses case. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. But I doubt it takes that long for most companies, especially now. But what would you say is a realistic time frame where it's like, can you get them through in a few days, a week, a month, quarter?

Yeah, great question, Mario. The answer is it's going to vary based on industry and the product that you're selling. And as a general rule, this is not an absolute. But as a general rule, the higher price or the higher ticket items that you have, the longer that process is going to take, moving strangers to friends and then friends and the customers, the higher ticket price, the longer that transition takes place. But I think a key distinction is that when you think of your individual advertising pieces and components, you begin thinking, okay, this ad, the sole purpose of this ad is to build trust, right? So we're communicating to friends, people who know about us. We want to build trust so that we can move them from being a friend into pulling out their wallet and giving us some money. And so it enables us to begin thinking through pieces and components of our advertising in very specific ways. So if my goal is to build trust with someone, I can then tailor my messaging. I can then think through what. What type of creative should I even be using to move people from that Friend into the customer.

How well do you think people are doing the advertising versus the messaging?

Yeah, I think all too often it kind of gets, you know, I'm here in Louisiana. It gets thrown into this one big pot kind of all mixed together, like we would call gumbo down here. You know, it's a bunch of ingredients get thrown in together, and then we hope that it actually works. And, you know, that's gumbo tastes good. But the reality is you have to be strategic. And the very first step in kind of answering that question would be until you are crystal clear about your market, you have no chance of getting the messaging right until you really understand the pain points, the struggles, the desires. You know, I heard an exercise once that you've got to know your ideal customer so well that you could literally write a page from their journal. In other words, you've got to be in their mind so deep that you understand the things that wake them up at night. Once you do that, the messaging then gets super, super simple because you can speak directly to them where they are.

And that's the avatar you were talking about or I referred to to is, you know, for someone that doesn't know the term, your ideal customer, your perfect customer or something like that, basically, you know, what is the model of the person that you're looking to talk to?

That's exactly it. You're correct.

So now I have a new question because I do want to get in, and I appreciate the context because this is just. I love the watch analogy. The clock just. I've never heard that before. That's fantastic. I do want to know the. What you recommend to keep people longer term. But now you got me wanting to ask, how do you find the avatar? How do you narrow it down to the point where it's not just, oh, we help everyone. Oh, my gosh, if I hear that one more time.

How do you. What do you do to help people narrow it down? Because I know everyone's at different spots and I'll be nice. I'll let you go now.

You're good. What I would say, Mario, is this, that, you know, when we think of figuring out who that avatar is or who that ideal customer is, all too often we kind of brush that aside as like this touchy feely exercise that really doesn't mean anything. Like, you know, obviously we need to sell things. We don't have time to go figure out who's this fake person that we're trying to reach. But what I can tell you is this, that we've now Worked with hundreds of companies, hundreds of industries all across the country. And I can tell you without a doubt, when the business owner, when the marketer takes the time to actually go through and identify that person, it radically transforms everything else that takes place. It makes it so much easier every other step of the process. So that's my, my, my encouragement to those watching, those listening to take the time. It's worth the investment. But the answer to the question is this. Look at your perfect customers that exist now. So if you were to take 100% of your customers, you were to pick out the 20%. So we're using kind of the Pareto principle, the 8020 rule, the 20%, who you absolutely love doing business with, they love buying your product, they love your service, they tell their friends about it. What are the common characteristics of those people? Do they live in the same area? Do they watch maybe the same TV shows? Do they drive the same type of vehicles? Do they all have similar careers? In other words, are they all in a certain career path? Are they married? Do they have children? You literally go through and you ask yourself all of these questions, and what we're looking for are the common characteristics of those people.

You know, you got me thinking, why is Google, Facebook, YouTube, all of them so successful? And it's because we're giving them so much information. They know everything about what we like, every single preference. And it sounds like majority of businesses out there, they don't even want to five. I mean, you just named 10 or 12 different data points, if you will, you know, where do they live, what do they drive? You know, this that, you know, if people aren't willing to figure out five to 10.

I mean, is there a number you strive for? Like, hey, let's see if we can figure out 25 to 50 different things so that way we can. Again, I see it as better serving them because if you're running an ad that says, you know, increase your revenue, well, I personally rather increase my profit along with the revenue. But those are two totally different things. That one word changes the whole game as well as every other word you use in your marketing. So I look at it as actually a disservice if you're not going that deep with them. It's like, maybe there's something you don't know about. Maybe there's something they don't know about that you can help them with. You just never had the conversation because they see you as a. When really you have complementary services.

Yeah, no, you're spot on. And what's so interesting about the analogy or the example that you gave Mario is that you mentioned, you know, revenue versus profit. And if we think of those two things more often than not, when we use those two words, we're actually communicating to probably two different audiences. And what I mean by that is if you were to sit down and you were to run an ad that says, you know, I can help you grow your revenue, that's going to be appealing to probably people who are maybe newer in business and who aren't really thinking all the way through to the bottom line right now. If the other side, you say, I'm going to work with entrepreneurs or business owners and help them increase their profit margins, you're now speaking to a slightly different audience because those words resonate in different ways with those different perspective audiences. So it's a very great example of when you understand the audience. It even goes down to the specific words you use in each of your advertising pieces.

Yeah, there's this great video that I've seen. I'm sure you've seen it too. It's with the blind man and the sign.

Yep.

You know which one I'm talking about?

I do.

I'll actually put a link in the show notes on EA interviews when, when this is all done. But for anyone listening right now, you know what? No. Watch the video. Click the link on the show notes page for this episode. I'm not going to even ruin it because you need to watch it and grab some tissues. I'll say that. So that's fair.

So now that we have some context for this.

I totally just didn't say anything about that. I'm like, wow, I thought I was going to expand, but it's really best to watch it. So now that we have some context about this, what are some ways you would advise someone, okay, you're getting them in, they like you. What are some of the things you do to expand it so they fall in love with you for years to come and get them. Turn them into those evangelists that tell their friends about you. Because I've known a lot of people that do marketing and this, that the other thing. And it's like it really is more focused on just the front end. But the truth is it's always better when you're going long term. At least I say it's what I tell my clients and advise my audience.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, have no doubt that, you know, if you look around and kind of just survey even the brands that, that everyone watching or listening that you interact with on a Regular basis, chances are the ones that you are the most passionate about, the ones that you're willing to tell your friends about, they have done some very specific things, probably some intentionally strategic things to help turn you into an evangelist for their brand. So step one, to answer your question, step one is we as marketers, as business owners must fight this constant battle to always go out and find the next new customer. Right? It's an internal mindset perspective and we have to work on ourselves to shift that mentality that, you know, it's not about always finding the next one, it's about getting the current ones to fall in love with us. I don't remember the exact quote, so I'm going to roughly paraphrase this, but I believe it was Dale Carnegie who originally said that all business problems could be solved if business owners would just spend an hour a day truly trying to understand the problems that their customers are facing. And so that is really what it's about. When we truly understand the challenges, the problems that our customers facing, we can then say, okay, how can we align ourselves? How can we align our products around those things? Now, how do you actually create evangelists? Well, step one is you're not going to create an evangelist if they merely like your product or service your company. They have to love it. So the very first exercise, besides getting your mindset right, that it is a long term, long term game and that it's about more than just the sell is this. Sit down and make a list of all the things that your customers can and should reasonably expect from your product or service. So in other words, if you're selling a product, sit down with a piece of paper and write down all the things that that customer, any customer, can and should expect from that product or service. Step two is what are some small ways to each of those items on the list that we could one up this. In other words, what are some specific ones beside each of those that you just listed? That we could take it from their expectations and exceed those expectations. So it's literally looking for little tiny things that can be engineered into the process that create the love. It's that attention to the detail of I understand you as a customer, I know why you bought our product or service to either solve this problem or to help you get something that you're after or for enjoyment, whatever the thing may be. And we understand you so much that we've also engineered into this process some additional things that are unexpected, things that are going to go above and beyond what you expected of our product. Or service along the way. So that's the next step in the exercise. And then the final one is this. And this is one that there's a lot of simple, great examples, but we often again, we're already back looking for the new customers. We ignore this. And that is we have to create tools that make it easy for our new evangelist to go out and tell their friends about us. So those are the steps. I would, I would say there's kind of three. One is the mindset. Two is making a list of what's expected versus how to exceed those expectations. And then three, making sure we have tools that make it easy for them to share.

Well, I appreciate you for sharing those and I really like that last one because I know I don't know any other CEO or business owner or anyone trying to help people that isn't looking for referrals. And I've seen people put on whole seminars just on referrals, but it seems like so many just miss the ball with it and then other companies who aren't trying to push it. It's just like clockwork. And when you're saying make it easy, I mean there's a classic call to action. You know, everyone's saying, hey, share my stuff. You know, especially with the show, like show like subscribe, click here, sign up. It's like holy smokes, like did, did you even like the episode? The first 30 seconds they're asking them to do all these things. You gave them no value. It makes no sense to me. But the call to action, now they do like you, but is it easy to share?

That's brilliant.

Yeah, that's it for, for you see it often now with a lot of e commerce sites. So as soon as you check out very often there will be a pop up that says, hey, share this. You know, share this with your friends and get, you know, whatever it is, 15% off your next purchase. That's a great example of, you know, you can visually see that. You can visually see how that process works. But the question then becomes for other businesses, what are some ways that you can engineer that? Right? So if you're not an e commerce company, what are some things that you can do that make it easy for others to share? So let me just give you one example that, that we do. And the reason I'm giving this example is not because we're doing something remarkable or great, but it's how we as a service provider created a way that makes it easy for people to share. So when we work with someone and we Build them a website. That process for us usually is six to eight weeks. A six to eight week process. And when we get done with that process, you know, by that point they should absolutely love what we've created. They should be excited about what we're doing created. But the question becomes, how do they actually, you know, tell their friends about this wonderful new website? So one of the very simple things that we do is we actually create a post on our Facebook page that says we're super excited for our friends over at X, Y and Z on their brand new website. You can go check it out here. And then what we do is we spend a little bit of money promoting that. So now we have all these people commenting and liking the post, saying, you know, that's a beautiful website, congratulations to them. And then it gives them, literally they can click one button, share that to their social media if they choose to. So that's one example of one little tool that is kind of indirect. Right. It's not direct correlation to the product they bought necessarily, but it gives them an easy way to share.

And it sounds like you're putting some ad spend behind it too.

Yep, just a little bit. 10 bucks.

Okay. Have you ever done press releases?

We have, yep. Absolutely.

I've. I've used those with my author clients when their book launches. And, you know, that's another. Another way that I wholly.

Recommend. Advise, do it. Whatever word you want to use there. But yeah, that's great because when it's on the Facebook or on the Instagram or on anything, the ability to share it. I've noticed even the apps are making it easier to share their own stuff. It used to be like click, click, click. And I think after two or three, it kind of gets cumbersome. Even though you're literally talking the difference of 2 seconds versus 5, people are just conditioned. Would you say where do you think the break off is? Do you think people are willing to do five or 10 steps?

The answer is yes, maybe. And what I mean by that is the more you have exceeded expectations, the more hoops they are willing to jump through to share on your behalf. So, you know, one thing that's super interesting to think about as we think about exceeding expectations is this, that expectations are an escalator. So what I mean by that is if today we are exceeding expectations by sharing on Facebook and, you know, making a big deal about launching a website, at some point, that becomes expected by every new client who signs with us. So now we've no longer exceeded expectations, that has become the expectation and so over time, expectations are always moving down the escalator. And so if we are going to create evangelists for our brands and for our companies, we must constantly be moving back up the escalator, knowing that today the thing that exceeded expectations, tomorrow will become the expectation.

That's brilliant.

Is there anything you do that you don't tell people about? Like a surprise, so that way it doesn't become part of the just normal, everyday expectation?

Yeah, absolutely. So again, when we think about exceeding expectations, we don't have to think of, like, grandiose, massive things.

The best ways to exceed expectations are in the little things. So I'm just going to throw out a few things that we do because I hope that these will either people can take them and run with them and use them, copy them, or it will inspire other ideas. So when someone comes into our office for the very first time, so maybe they're coming in to meet with our salesperson, we have a little chalkboard sign that goes out front, and we write on there, welcome, and we put their name. So as they're walking down the sidewalk coming into our business, lo and behold, there's their name on the sidewalk waiting for them. Another thing that we do is when we do a kickoff meeting, so they've already signed up the line. They're an official client of ours. One thing that happens is we actually send them a goodie bag. And it actually comes from not far from you, Mario, up in Ann Arbor, Michigan, over from Zingerman's. We send them a big Zingerman's goodie bag. So they get that unexpectedly. And then when they do come in for their kickoff meeting, one of the things that we do is we will actually, prior to that meeting, we will kind of in conversation, ask them, what are some of your favorite snacks? What is your favorite candy? When is your birthday? So we kind of run down these lists of questions, and then when they show up for the kickoff meeting, we have their favorite snacks, we have their favorite candy. We have all of that waiting for them at the kickoff meeting. Another little simple thing that we did is we have one of these wheels, kind of like a wheel of Fortune wheel, but that is. What's that word? Vertical, not horizontal. If I get my directions messed up here. You understand what I'm saying? And on the wheel we wrote down some prizes, like, you know, a $25 Starbucks gift card, a $25 gift card to a local restaurant. And so there's like eight or nine different things on this wheel. And at the end of the meeting, they get to spin the wheel and they win whatever they land on. And so, you know, sure, that costs us a little bit of money, but what it does for them is it creates an experience that they will never forget. Right. How many business meetings have you been to where, you know, you're working with someone and you go in and there's all your favorite food laid out for you, and then you get spin a wheel and win something. Right. It creates a remarkable experience for them.

That is fantastic. And I'm glad you're doing it with people in person because when I first started, when I first went full time in business, I was giving all my clients gift, gift albums. They could pick out, you know, whatever they want from it. And there was 50 to 100 different gifts in there, and the albums were anywhere from 25 to 100 bucks, you know, depending on what was in it. And.

They loved it. You know, I would, I love the idea of getting their preferences before they come in. And then when they come in, they're just like, how did you know? And you may have seen on the form, I actually added people's birthdays on the form for the submission, the application to even be on the show, because exactly what you're saying.

Yeah, yeah, there's a million ways to exceed expectations, but those million ways can't be figured out until you know what the baseline expectations are. So it's impossible to exceed something if you don't know what it is you're exceeding. So as an exercise, you know, sit down and think through what it. What do the people who give us money, what do they reasonably expect from us in this process? And that is, that is the jumping off point to building and creating evangelists for your organization.

You are sharing some great expert authority insights and I so appreciate it. How did you get into this? Because you're clearly good at it. What inspired you to even get into marketing?

So the super quick version of that story is this.

My junior year of college, for whatever reason, for Christmas, my parents gave me some CDs by this man of the name, Zig Ziglar. I don't know why, but lo and behold, I opened a present. There's some Zig Ziglar CDs. I start listening to Zig Ziglar. And Zig Ziglar sold me on the profession of selling. So I knew that I had to go into sales. So I leave college, I get a job in sales, I spend the next few years in sales. And I get pretty good over time at selling.

And what I realized at one point was, you know, I looked at the amount of revenue I was generating for the company I was working for and I said if I devoted the same energy and effort to something on my own, could I, you know, make a lot more money? And at the time, the only skillset I really had was cutting grass. So I left my good corporate sales job and started a lawn and landscape company. And over the next three year period, I took that from startup to a very good sized company and I ended up selling it. But in that process, I had a lot of actual clients of the lawn company. I had a lot of friends coming to me saying, hey, we see how fast your company's growing. What are you doing? How can you help us do the same? And so it was kind of out of that process that, you know, I really fell in love with marketing. I became a student of marketing and, you know, have literally devoted almost the last 20 years to studying and implementing different marketing techniques.

That is fantastic. My first business was, I started when I was 12 was landscape, power, washing, painting, all of that. I did that a few years later, but just saw like you're talking about saw need. One of my sales pitches was I drove up after church, the guy, it's a hot day, you know, grew up on the water and this guy's cutting his lawn. And I'm like, just thinking, he doesn't like look like he's enjoying it. Just walked up, pulled in his driveway and the sales pitch was, doesn't look like you're enjoying that too much. He goes, nope. I go, rather be on the boat? He goes, yep. I go, why don't you go pack a cooler, I'll be back in 15 minutes. He goes, how much? I go, 20 bucks. Had them for a couple of years before I sold that company to start this one. And good on your parents for giving you Zig Ziglar. That's fantastic.

Yeah, I don't know where it came from, but I'm thankful for it as well.

Yeah. When I was working jobs, if you will, back in, when I was a teenager because I started my first business at 12 and went full time in this, started this one when I was 18. So I had some jobs early on, but I always knew I was entrepreneur at heart. And I remember similar to you, we were short staffed one day at this other place and I was like, we just made them $36,000 on half the staff and I'm getting pull out a calculator. I'm like $56. Whatever the math came out to for $6.50 an hour after taxes. I mean, they bought us a sub for lunch. Again. I think we chose the right path, right?

Yeah, it's definitely got its ups and it's definitely got its downs. But.

If you're an entrepreneur at heart and sideways. But if you're an entrepreneur at heart, you know it, you know it kind of deep within and you know there's nothing else that you can be happy with doing is other than, you know, I hate to use the cliche, but quote unquote, controlling your own destiny cliche.

I think it sounds great. And people think it's weird. That's their problem, not ours.

So we got one more fun thing to do. I got a wheel of my own. And that's why I was smirking when you were saying the wheel, because this one's real. Some people thought it was like a visual effect. I'm like, no, it actually spins. And I call this the wheel of whatever. And my question for you is, wow, that one's going real good. Look at that. Sometimes it just looks weird. Okay, enough of that. So my question for you is.

Who is a person and. Or company and. Or both. Nice single question there that you would just love to work with. You know, you could help them with their marketing.

That's a great question. You know, one that I think would be super fascinating and I think that we could actually do some interesting things. Would be Tesla.

Oh, really? That's a great answer. What would you want to do?

Well, they're brilliant in the fact that they actually don't spend money on advertising. And what's so brilliant about that is in order to get to their level of success without spending money on advertising, they have to be brilliant at marketing. And so I think their approach is very much in line with the way we love to approach things in our company. So while I don't necessarily have a specific thing that I would love to do for them, what I can say is where they are brilliant ties into something you said earlier, Mario. And they are great at generating publicity for themselves. So there's lots of leverage points when you shift your mentality away from just having to, quote, unquote, advertise and you shift your mindset into, we can market. And a part of marketing is publicity. It opens up so many doors. And that is one thing that Elon Musk and his team at Tesla are brilliant at.

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Unmanageable.

John Cody I've worked with Mario over.

The phone and online and he's been very helpful in getting me where I needed to go with promoting my books. Rocio there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past, it didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process. Adele if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner. I can't make a higher recommendation than to work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started now and I look forward to hearing your transformation as the next video success story. Once again, that's freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Wayne, are you ready to take imperfect action?

I'm ready.

Rapid fire answers 60 seconds or less. The first question is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Great question. I would say clearly understanding your customer avatar is the fastest path to the profits.

Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

The biggest problem is confusing marketing and advertising and not devoting enough time to playing the long game as you said Mario and converting customers into evangelists.

Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Great question. I'm going to cheat and use understanding your customers needs their desires because when you do that you can open yourself up to whether that's cross promotion of other products, whether that's whether that's developing additional product line service lines to meet and fulfill those needs of your customers and clients.

Excellent. And I wouldn't say that's cheating, that's just being A smart business owner.

All right, what books would you recommend to Expert Authority World?

Oh, that's a dangerous topic for me.

The list could be forever long. A book that I would recommend is Principles by Ray Dalio. Highly recommend the book.

Yeah, I just finished reading who, not how by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. Recommend that one as well.

I read a lot, so it's very tough for me to narrow it down and pick a few. Usually I find the current book I'm reading is the best book I've ever read until I pick up the next one.

Great recommendations and I had Dr. Ben on the show.

That's awesome.

It was very great time. Great book recommendation, and I thank you for those. Where would you like people to learn more where would you like people to learn more about you and your company?

Sure. The simplest place is just ugly. Mugmarketing.com from there we've got links to social channels. We've got email addresses. Hey, if you want to send something in the mail, we've got a mailing address too. So that's the easiest place.

Mail is so great. I love getting stuff in the mail and I think people overlook it nowadays because everything's so technical.

Well, Wayne, what's interesting just to go ahead to tag off of that one statement is I have four kids at home and, you know, just recently we got the Amazon Christmas catalog in the mail. So just keep in mind that just because we have all these tech companies out today, that the smart ones are leveraging all different forms of media and mediums to put their message in front of their ideal customers.

How much did you appreciate that they sent you a catalog? Everyone can look at and tell you what they want.

I didn't necessarily appreciate it, but the kids absolutely love it. And last night I went in the kids room after bedtime and one of them had his little light, little book light up. And he's sitting up on his bed with all the lights out, flipping through the Amazon catalog, staring at all the toys.

Yeah, I think reading is important. I used to do the same thing, you know, sneak in a light. Now I can just leave the light on or have. I don't even want to say her name. She can turn on the lights and everything, but it's nice to get away from all the tech and just grab a book, go sit by the fire, sit in a normal chair, like, get away from the screens. I still prefer something in my hand. Physical books, you know, it's why I love publishing them for people because there's enough screens, like 12 per person. Statistically like we're good. So thank you again. It has been a pleasure.

Thank you so much, Mario. I've enjoyed our conversation.

All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless.

You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate and qualify leads while increasing profit for you 24? 7? And if so, how well are you promoting it? With the Expert Authority Effect publishing method, it's easier and faster than ever. Visit freebusinessbook publishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit freebusinessbook publishingcourse.com to get started. Now once again, that's freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com hey, thanks for listening to today's episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven't done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show and also be sure to check out eainterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview, video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you tomorrow.