0239 | How to Create and Maintain Strong, Values-Based Cultures in Business with Author, Speaker, Daughter of Sheraton Hotel Co-Founder & Widow of Frank Perdue, the Poultry Magnate Mitzi Perdue [ Part I ]

I'm Mitzi Perdue and My website is mitziperdue.com and I have another website that I'd love you to visit also. It's called winthisfight.org you're listening to EA interviews.

EA interviews, episode 239, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week, join Mario Facini for today's expert authority effect interview. Have you ever wanted to build a ginormous company or help a lot of people? I know I have. And when I say that, I don't say it lightly because I have. Mitzi Perdue here today. And her father founded Sheraton Hotels and she was married to Frank Perdue from Purdue Chicken. She has an extensive wealth of knowledge and she definitely has a heart of gold. She started a charity and she's going to be talking about all of this and more. Author, speaker, CEO, Mitzi Perdue. I'm gonna bring her up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's free businessbook publishingcourse.com Here she is, ladies and gentlemen, Mitzi Perdue. Mitzi, how are you feeling today?

Stunned, Shocked, Humbled, Amazed. Wow. Thank you.

Yes.

I mean, I've never seen anything like that before.

So you liked it?

How about. Well, it's a little embarrassing to say how much I loved it, but I loved it. I mean, I'll share with you something. I'm 79 and watching that makes me think, you know, maybe it's all worth.

Is you have a heart of gold and.

I know what you're trying to do and all the people you're trying to help. So.

I really appreciate that. And don't ever back down from anything you're doing. Like I said prior to this, if there's anyone I can introduce you to, you're doing the right thing and for the right reason. So it's an honor and privilege for me to have you here today.

I feel so honored and privileged. I don't know what to do with myself. But we'll all soldier on.

So I want to ask you about.

The uniqueness of your background. You know, your father started Sheraton Hotels, you were married to Frank with Purdue Chicken. Tell me about, let's start back when you were a young girl because what was it like just growing up in that type of family and environment where you know, you Have a standard of excellence, and you get into doors that most people don't get into.

Well, first of all, it was fabulous because both father and mother were very big believers in family life. And father used to put enormous amounts of effort into making sure that we children learned values and that we've learned what my mother used to call recipes for living. And just as an example of that father, you know, he was a captain of industry. He employed 20,000 people. But even so, he would spend every Sunday there would be what we called Family Hour. And he would spend it in one way or another, like educating us. It might be something as simple as explaining stocks and bonds. Or if he was interested in astronomy, he'd tell us his latest enthusiasms about that. We had something called Family Bend, where there were five siblings and mother and father and would all play something, and this would happen every Sunday. So he put a huge amount of effort into what he called the next generation.

I want to ask you about that because you're just so nonchalantly, you know, he taught us something simple, like stocks and bonds in astronomy. I don't think those are pretty simple subjects.

I see why it's important to start at a young age, and I'm glad he did. But would you say that's a pretty normal thing to learn?

Well, of course, there's a question of how deep you get into it. But he did want us to be as educated as possible. And one of the things that is perhaps more accessible to everybody is he'd tell stories about his parents or his grandparents. And these were just so important because there's research. There's a woman named Robin Fifes, whom I totally admire from Emory University, Georgia, and we're talking the state of Georgia. She studies what makes a family high functioning. And by high functioning, you know, the family, the kids are mentally and physically healthy. They like each other. They. They do well in school. They aren't in trouble with the law. They don't do drugs. So what makes a family high functioning? And her research at the Family Narratives Laboratory says, know your family stories. That there's just a perfect correlation between how well you know your family stories, which is what gives you your identity. Because after all, we are the stories we tell ourselves.

She encourages families to do things together, whether meals together or trips together. So I admired my parents no end for, you know, they didn't know that they were doing exactly the right thing. But according to modern research, they were.

I'm so happy to hear that. And I don't. What age are you talking about specifically, are you talking, like, 7, 8, 9, 10, or in your teens?

For me, it began when, you know, I could barely walk. The instrument I'd play in family band was a recorder. And, you know, you can play one or two notes and sort of keep up with the others. But another thing that he did that I just loved, he did tell the family stories, and I'd love to share one about how Sheraton got started.

Please do.

Thank you.

As a little girl, I discovered that I could get parental attention by asking Daddy stories. And so, of course, I asked. I asked him all the questions about business that I could think of, because that was just guaranteed way to get Daddy to pay attention to me. Yeah. With five siblings, everybody has their way of doing it, and mine was asking questions, so, Daddy.

What made you a success? And it was real clear to me that he was a success because you would always stay at Presidential Suites when we traveled to the 400 hotels. So it's a question that would make sense for a little girl to wonder. And one of the stories he told me was that whenever he'd take over a new hotel, and he started Sheraton in the 1930s. So, yeah, there's really tough economic times, and a hotel would usually come up for sale if it was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. So the day he took possession of a hotel, he'd invite all the hotel workers, and there could be 400 of them, there could be 800 of them, because hotels have lots of employees. You don't see. Anyway, he'd invite all of them into the hotel ballroom, and he knew ahead of time that those people were a really demoralized bunch of people, because they're thinking, if I get fired, it's the breadline. Because at the height of the Depression, it's hard for us to imagine, but 25% unemployment, okay, so he knew that he's facing, say, 400 people. Every one of them was probably just as.

Uncomfortable and demoralized as could be. And he knew that. So the first thing he'd do when he's standing up in front of his new employees, he'd say, I want every one of you to keep your job. And I have a reason for that. It's because you know your job better than anybody else in the world. And. And my job is to give you the resources and the encouragement to show the world just how good you are. And you're going to see in just a few months, this is going to be the most popular, the best served, the most financially sound hotel in the city. And together we're going to be an example that even though times are tough, that things can turn around. Can you imagine how an employee must feel with that, his welcome to his new job with or the new owner?

Pretty darn good about themself, I would imagine.

But that's not the end of his story. He told me, and we're now getting to a part that's more important than the words, although I think the words are certainly important.

He said, yeah, it's a good start to let everybody be assured that they're going to keep their job. But the next part was the following day, the employees would see just hordes of, like, plumbers and decorators and.

I don't know, mechanics. Whatever it takes to refurbish a hotel. But those. Those people who were upgrading the hotel, refurbishing it.

They didn't go to the areas that. Where the paying public would see. No, they're going exactly to the areas where. Where the employees spend most of their time, like the lockers, the showers, the employee dining rooms. And so I asked him, why wouldn't you be spending the first money in the places where you'll get money back from the paying public? And he said words that really resonated with me to this day. He said, people have a compulsion to live up to or down to your expectations. And he wanted to show them that he really believed in them and how important they were.

That's a great expert authority insight. Do you feel he carried that through with the family life as well as the employees?

Yeah, I think in everything I ever saw him do. The idea that.

You act and show and demonstrate that you believe in people.

That sounds fantastic.

And there's even a little bit more to that story if you've got the patience for it.

It's not the patience. We got the time. And I want to bring out the best for the expert authority world. I'm enjoying listening myself, but I'm just thinking about that because for me, there's been so many situations where it's like, I'm trying to do the best. And this person here, that person here, whether it's school, family, friends, relatives, you know, when I was starting my business, people are like, you know, just everyone's got their own thoughts on everything. And it's like, wow, it would sure be nice to have it. You know, here's the right way to do it, unequivocally, because I was taught and I learned about stocks and bonds in my 12, 13, 14, right after I started my first company. I would have loved to learn sooner, but it was, you know, you do this, you see something working, but then everyone cast all this doubt. Then it's like, I don't know. And it just, it's this flip flop for a while. And I'm glad you're sharing this because while it may not be the norm, it should be the norm.

And.

Well, I think believing in people is a fantastic untapped resource because, like, did you ever have a teacher say, I believe in you, and it just turned things around?

Yes, some of them.

Well, I think father somehow tapped into that. But that isn't even the end of the story because, you know, I was asking him, how come you just told everybody that they could keep their job? Why not make them earn it some way? Why do you just give it away free? And his answer was that in his world, there were three ways of getting people to do what you want. And I'm sure there are a million others, but in his world, and the first one is intimidation. He said, I could have stood up there in front of everybody and said, shape up or you're fired. He said, you can get people to do what you want with intimidation, but how about it's short term and people do it grudgingly and yet basically it's a rotten way.

Possibility number two, bribery. He said, I could have stood up there in front of them and said, do a super job and there's a race in it for you. Do a super job and there's a bonus in it for you. He said, the problem with bribery, again, it's just not a good way of getting people to do what you want.

Because the motivation may be misplaced.

Yeah, it's too transactional. They're going to work on. Well, I guess you said it better than I could. The motivation gets misplaced. You work for the bribe rather than for something bigger. So what's left if bribery and intimidation aren't what he recommended, A bigger cause? Yes.

His term for it was inspiration. And yet we're right back to people live up to or down to your expectations, but if you inspire them that they're part of a team, that they're building something that's going to be valuable not just to themselves, but to their team, to the whole hotel, and eventually to the whole city. And the way he put it was, the maid isn't making beds and the bartender isn't just serving drinks. No, they're together building something wonderful and exciting. And you want to come to work because your work is meaningful and. Oh, and which brings me to another phrase that I copied from him. And maybe it's the most important thing that I can share with anybody. A leader's job is to give people a better vision of themselves.

Cool.

I like it. Because most people don't have that vision. I would say most people don't have that vision for themselves. And even the people who do, it's a constant battle to go, you know, to stay in that vision. Because, frankly, I could be wrong. But it feels like the world is just out to just bash you down every chance you get, even if you are winning.

Okay, I couldn't agree more. And yet what I've just been describing from Father, we know it worked because he started with no employees, he ended with 20,000. And he was famous for people staying with him for life and being motivated and willing to go the extra mile. So his approach of.

Showing people that they were important to him and valuing them, it worked.

It absolutely did.

And he had a number of things that he taught me that might be useful. Like I mentioned that I often asked Father how he did it. And he had a variety of answers because he wasn't always just going to repeat the same story. But one of them was what he was like as a negotiator. And I get the impression, I've read books in negotiation, that you really try to bargain as hard as you can. But that wasn't his approach.

His business approach was.

Be so fair that the other side feels good at the end of the negotiation, and that means seeing the other side. And.

His view was, always leave something on the table. Don't go for the last penny. And I said, why not? And he said, the people who drive the hardest bargains, the people. Well, his term for it was the sharks.

They might make the most money on a particular deal. And in quite a few of his deals, he left a lot of money on the table. But he said the payoff for his approach was one of the things that made Sheraton grow, was if a hotel, a nice, important one, came on the market, and typically it would come on the market because of maybe the founder died or the widow wants to sell it in one way or another, there's probably somebody who's not the original owner who's on the other side of the negotiation.

And since he had a reputation, which he carefully nurtured, of being somebody who was fair, he said the big payoff for this is he'd always be offered the best deals first. Because if you're a lawyer and you're representing, I'M being hypothetical as I'll get out. I mean, this is not a real case, but it's a plausible case. An 80 year old woman, suddenly she's inherited a hotel, her kids don't want anything to do with it. Her lawyer advises her to sell and she says, okay, take care of it. And the lawyer hunts around and thinks, where am I going to get the best deal? Sheridan.

I like that approach because, you know, you're giving me a reframe now because a lot of what I've learned on the negotiation and just heard is the typical, you know, you want to be advantageous and maybe not cutthroat, but just you want it in your favor. But if you're tipping the scales, you know, whether it's 20% or 40%, if that's the difference from a shark or not, the net result, like you're saying is the other person may felt like they got, you know, not the best deal, if you will.

Yeah. So your reputation as a negotiator, you know, since he was in it for his entire life, it was really, really important to him to have a reputation of being. He termed it fair.

But he also said, leave things on the table, don't go for the last penny.

That's a really long term strategy. Short term, you're not making the most long term. He got the best offers first.

But if you're thinking short term to begin with, I mean, you might kill it this year, but then you have to redo it next year and the next year and at some point, and I would say in my experience, within about six to nine months of even if you were starting at ground zero right now, today, in six to nine months, you have a pretty good foothold. No matter what the industry is. After a year, year and a half or two, you can be pretty well known in it. And after that it's like now, the reputation, I mean, it's always important from day one, but you know, you have to build it up, you're new, whatever. But after that, you know, I have clients that I've had over 10, 11 years. And.

I appreciate you sharing this because I've always done my best to be fair as well. And you do want to make sure there's enough profit left over. But at the same point, I've always told everyone, I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. You know, I'm always thinking five years, five, ten years down the road, then.

I predict great success for you. Because it's that kind of long term thinking that does work.

Well, I appreciate that, and I'll definitely take it because I'm. My main motivation is the more I can do and the more reach I have, the more people I can help with it. So thank you for sharing that with us because I think so many people are focused on the short game. They're not thinking two, three, five years down the line. It's, we just need to get by today. And that's, you know, I get it. I've been there. But at the same point, you're just basically in a roller. Not even a roller coaster. It's a roller wheel or hamster wheel. Hamster wheel, yeah. Whatever you call it.

By the way, I don't want to imply that he was into giving away the store. I mean.

No, no, I didn't get that one bit.

Good, good, good. Because he was a shrewd, smart businessman, but he went from no hotels to 400.

Yeah, but it sounds like if he could have got another 10 or 20 or 30% better on the deal, he may have said, hey, this is good, and negotiated it to what's fair and equitable for both parties. But clearly it worked. I mean, there's no refuting it. And it's why I love even reading books. And this is just, you know, a real treat and surreal for me because I love going back 100, 150 years going, what were they doing back then before all this fancy stuff came out? And it comes back to just, you know, you're treating people good and you take care of them and you actually serve them and over deliver.

Well, that makes me think of Frank Perdue. Can we talk about my late husband?

You can talk about whatever you want, and I'm excited to talk about Frank. And also what you're doing with all of this in your charity, Win this Fight.

Okay, let's go with Frank, because you said a word that just resonated with me.

What's that word?

Serving.

Serving.

Okay, because Frank, I mean, I'm going to give an example of where he literally served the people who worked with him. Frank was as far. And, of course, I've got a somewhat narrow view on this, but he seemed to have attitudes remarkably like what my father's were.

I mean, all the things that I quoted from my father. I saw traces of that kind of thing in my late husband. But I'll give you one thing that happened right after we married. We married in 1988, and we had a very short courtship. When we married, we knew each other in person six weeks and three days.

But that's We. I lived in California, he was in Maryland, and would talk on the phone every night for an hour OR2 for six months. So we knew a lot about each other, even though our time in person was limited.

I would imagine you could even learn more about someone because you're going in depth and you can actually have a conversation because, you know, I know people that meet in person. They go on the dates and everything, but if it's only once a week or once every few weeks for a couple of hours here and there, you know, then all the distractions of everything else, it's like, I think in some ways you could learn some learn about someone better by talking on the phone or conversing.

Well, I love talking about romance, so let's quickly get into that and then get back to business. Yeah, I recommend that because we. We made a promise to each other, which we actually kept, which would tell the good, the bad, and the ugly, and because we didn't want to make a mistake. And when we actually got married, there was no adjustment period because I really knew. I mean, he had been as honest as I think a person can be with me about his good points and his bad points. And I certainly tried to be the same with him, and it was a miracle. We just meshed. We had 17 years of, for me, joy. Because we actually did know each other really well by the time we married. But I wanted to share this story about Frank literally surfing. When we just gotten back from our honeymoon, and it was, I guess, in Late August of 1988, we're walking on a beach in Watch Hill, Rhode island, and it's really romantic. The beach is pretty much deserted, and we're carrying our sandals and the surf crashing, and suddenly I look up at Frank and I say, franklin, I think we should entertain every single person who works for the company.

As you can imagine, that took him aback. And his answer was no. There's 16,000 people who work for the company. This being 19.

Yeah, that's way too many. And I sort of pretended that I didn't quite process that he was saying no. And I said, you know, I think we should have them 100 at a time. And he said, no, that's way too many. And I said, let's start in six weeks. I bet we could put this together by the end of September. And he was saying, no, that's way too soon. And, oh, I wanted. You know, since I grew up in the hospitality industry and I think hospitality solves everything, I wanted to do this. And initially, you know, he was sort of acting as if, who did I marry? What. What galaxy did she set down from? But as we kept talking, which we did, and we went round and round about this wacko idea of Mitzi's, I could tell that he was starting to think, you know, maybe there's something to it. And after we talked, I don't know, maybe half an hour, he said, you know what? I like it. And six weeks later, we did begin entertaining people 100 at a time, often three times a month for the next 17 years. And what made him change his mind is like my father, he wanted people to feel important. And what better way to make people feel important, whether you're a trucker, a veterinarian, an administrative assistant, anybody, everyone, than to come to the owner's house and be entertained for dinner. And to my mind, it was spectacularly successful because people would tell me that it was one of the most meaningful events in their lives to be entertained by Frank in his home. But now the serving part. We had our living room set up with a couple of end to end long buffet tables. And Frank Perdue would stand behind with the waiters, and Frank Perdue would wait on his employees.

I mean, how many heads of Fortune 500 sized companies would invite people into their home and be white on them? Cool.

Probably not a ton. And even fewer for the second part. And you did that for 17 years?

We did. Well, actually, a little less than 17 years because. Well, because by the time he was 85, there were health issues and we couldn't but up until like 83 or so. Yeah, and he loved it because he really. Well, there's a quote that expresses Frank Perdue's feelings, and it comes from a psychologist from 120 years ago. The guy's name was William James. I believe he was a Harvard psychology professor. Don't hold me to that. But I think so. But I do remember the quote very clearly, which is the deepest principle of human nature, is the craving for appreciation. And this was a way for Frank Perdue to show appreciation. And he was just masterful at it because he'd talk with every single person there. And if he were talking with you, you just felt enveloped by his total focus. I mean, you were the only person in the room for that moment. You were the most important person in the world to him at that moment. And.

I made it my business to notice what I'm about to describe. In almost any situation that I ever saw Frank Perdue, it would be 10% him talking, usually asking you questions, and 90% listening. So he made you feel really important. And then at the end of the evening, he'd stand up in front of a hundred or so.

You know, whatever branch of the company, maybe it's the auditors, maybe it's the accountants or the, I don't know, the IT people.

And he'd give them a state of how the company was doing, what was going wonderfully, what was worrisome, what would keep you up late at night, what would make you think, ah, it's really going great. But he'd just tell them as honestly as if he was addressing the board of directors. And then he'd take questions. And there were always loads and loads. And then at the very end was the part that, for me was most meaningful.

Frank would always say, but it would be in different words, but it would. It would always boil down to this. I know the company wouldn't be what it is today without you. Thank you.

So he really had that heart for people and really wanting to not just care for them and make sure they have a good work environment. But, I mean, you were bringing them to your home.

Absolutely. And I've been to funerals where the next of kin. I mean, this happened several times, where the next of kin would tell me that.

One of the most meaningful and important and memorable events of the deceased life was that he got to have dinner at the big boss's home.

Let me ask you, what was the most memorable party from all of those that you remember?

Well, it's memorable almost in a humorous way, but okay. We all know that I grew up in the hospitality industry and that in my family, you win points for being warm and welcoming and make people feel good.

That's part of the family culture. Well, one day there was a party, and in this case, it was for the sanitation workers. That is.

In other words, the garbage collectors, the people who clean up. So this was. The sanitation workers were invited over for dinner. And I thought everything was going swimmingly. People were talking and they were, you know, it was. There were adult beverages and people. It's my purpose for them to have fun. It's not to be a stressful evening. But I noticed that there was a couple sort of off to the side, you know, like in a corner of the living room away from here, where everybody was sort of boisterously having fun. And it sort of looked. They weren't exactly quarreling, but they were sure as heck discussing something. Well, I was, as a hostess, you know, my spidey sense says, yes, something's not right. What can I Do about it.

Did you ask them if you wanted to keep score?

How so?

Did you ask them if they would like you to keep score?

Oh, that would have been great. But here's what I did do.

I asked as gently as I could, kind of what was going on. And here was what was coming on. Going on. This couple, one of them worked for the sanitation department of Purdue, and the guy worked for the Salisbury, which is where the plant was or where our home was, the Salisbury, Maryland Sanitation Department. So both members of the couple were in sanitation. But what was going wrong was the guy who worked for the city.

He was unhappy because he said, if I try to tell my colleagues that I had dinner at Frank Perdue's house, never, ever, ever believe me. So I thought, oh, there's a solution to that. And so I had a Polaroid camera, this being probably, I don't know, 25 years ago. But for those who don't remember Polaroids, these are cameras that will instantly develop, or in 60 seconds, develop a picture and print it out. So I had a Polaroid camera nearby, and I walked over to where Frank was, and he was surrounded by a whole group of people asking him questions. But I said, frank, this is important. Leave them for the moment and come over. And I explained the situation to him. Well, he posed with his arm around Russell, and I'm trying to show it. Yeah, he posed with his arm around Russell. And I took a picture. And then. So there's a picture of Russell, the sanitation guy, and Frank Perdue with his arm around him. And then Frank autographs it. It was so great to have you over for dinner last night, Frank.

That's so cool. Do you still. Do you still. Well, do you still. I want to ask if you still have. Have it, but a Polaroid would only be one shot. Do you have a copy or a scan somewhere?

Oh, I wish I had. I mean, because that is one of my favorite moments. Because, as you can guess, everybody was for everybody. The couple just. They looked as happy as people could be. Because, you know, now nobody could make fun of him that he was lying. Now, here's the proof that is special.

And not just because you were able to capture it, because it was real. I mean, he would have known. But the fact that he just. He still wanted to do it, because he could have very easily. You know, I'm talking to someone. You know, we're having a party, this and that. But he recognized it for what it was.

Oh, Frank totally got how important that was. I mean, because Frank had a lot of empathy and I hope I've got some. And that situation is just so clear cut. Here's a problem and we can fix it.

It's one of the reasons I've always liked photography and videography, because.

One of my original company slogans was I came up with, we can't change the past or predict the future, but we can capture the moment.

Oh, wow, I love that. And by the way, photography is almost my favorite hobby. And if not that, it's videography.

So because I tell people all the time, you know, no matter what the holiday, what the occasion, you know, hey, I'm going on a trip. Awesome. Hope you have a fun time. Safe travels, take lots of pictures and video.

And I'm 79. And those photographs that I've collected over my life, they mean so much to me. Like my kids when they were little or happy times with friends.

You can't buy those.

Life is about memories and keep them.

Well, I appreciate you for sharing that. That is special. And I gotta be honest, I wish he was still around. It sounds like a lot of fun, the parties, him and everything.

But you know, something else that he was. I don't want to run out of time though. Could we. Time for another story. Or I could tell it next time.

I have never done this live, but. Oh, we got plenty of time.

All right.

And I don't think anyone even seen me look at the thing. We're fine. We're fine. Yeah, we're fine. Go, please.

Okay. But just other things that Frank would do that and what I'm going to describe now it's a question of do as I say, not as I do, because I'm going to describe something that I can't do, but I watched him do just all the time. And it's remembering names. And by the way, his son Jim Perdue has the same gift. But one of the joys of my life was that I got to see Frank in action. He'd often allow me to accompany him when would have plant visits. And I'm told that in some companies it would be just almost unheard of for the, the big boss to walk along like the assembly line and talk with workers that generally that, you know, that it might be more typical. I mean, of course there are exceptions to this, but it would be kind of more typical for a group of, of the, I don't know, the executives, the C suite people to walk through the plant floor and not talk with anybody. But not Frank. The most amazing thing to me is we could be in a plant where there were 800 people, employees, or maybe even 1200. And the number of people he knew by name was just staggering. And he'd introduced me to them, and he'd say, you know, I'd like you to meet Delsey, or I'd like you to meet Antonio, Antonia's son, just got into a great college. Or delsey's been with us for 30 years and never had a sick day. He'd not just know the names, but he'd know things about them. And how must it feel? Oh, I have to add one other point to this, which is go for it. Well, when we were walking through the plants, I mean, almost brings tears to my eyes. I'm so impressed by this. But Frank would never give the impression that I'm the big boss. The other person who's known throughout the world, Fortune 500 size company. Never, never, never, never, never. Not even once. Because what his real attitude was, we're all part of a team and I respect your work, and together we're producing something fabulous. But it wasn't that he was better, it was that they were teammates. And. And so it was just the most natural thing in the world for him to talk with the people on the line. And then something else that he did that I just treasure. He would. You know, he could have eaten at the fanciest restaurants in the world continuously, but I'd say almost more often than not, he'd eat in the. In the. Or we would eat in the cafeterias at the plants. And Frank would simply invite people. He'd either sit down next to, there's a table that's nearly full, and he just says, there room for one more, and just talk with people. And he'd ask how their job was going, were they being treated right, what problems are they up against? Or maybe they'd talk sports. But he was so. I would describe him as an egalitarian. There was just nothing puffed up about him.

Super down to earth, it sounds like.

Yeah.

When he was touring the plants, would he always stick to the schedule? Or when he got caught up talking to someone, would he just let it go?

He'd let it go.

Frank had a different relationship with time from anybody I've ever known, because when there was an appointment, he would be there to the second.

So he was terribly conscious of time in many cases. But going through a plant now, if somebody had something to say, he'd just stay and listen.

That's fantastic.

And by the way, I once worked in a plant.

Oh, you did tell me about that.

Well, one day.

I was driving from Norfolk, Virginia, to Salisbury, Maryland, and our Akinbach plant, which is sort of like halfway between the two cities that I just described.

I was hungry, and, you know, it'd be a couple of hours more before I'd be home. So I stopped off at the plant and ate in the cafeteria.

Which I love doing, because, I mean, plants, they can be kind of fun, and you meet really interesting people. But in this case, I was sitting beside an African American woman, and she was just really curious about my life and what life with Frank was like. And I have no trouble spilling the beans. But then I thought, she's asked me all these personal questions. Turn about's fair play. And I wanted to know about her life. I wanted to know everything that I could find out. Because you don't know this about me, but I'm a writer. I spent most of my life writing newspaper columns. So here I am talking with her, and she's describing her job, and her job is.

In the plant. It's what I would have thought. I would have predicted would be like, a really boring job.

When there are chickens that are going to be cut up so that you get, like, drumsticks and breasts and so forth. You put them in shackles. And what that means is they're these.

I'm not good at describing it, but you hang the chickens in these sort of, like, clips.

And I was thinking. And by the way, I knew that she'd been there for, like, 10 or 12 years, and I wanted to find out if that job was boring. And I didn't use those words because that's not a polite question to ask. But would you have the same curiosity? What's it like?

It would be interesting to know.

Yeah. And trust me, I didn't say, is it boring? But I sort of indirectly wanted to find out what it was like. And she said, you know, I can't describe it. I just can't. But if you'd come work with me for a day.

Then you'll understand. And I said, well, if you can arrange it, I'll do it. And so the next week, she had talked with her supervisor and talked to the plant manager and probably got all the way up to Frank. I don't know. But a week later, there I am, Mrs. Frank Perdue, putting on the white smock and the hair net and the bump cap in case you bump into something.

And something else you have to do. If you work in a plant, you have to take off all your jewelry and all your earrings because you don't want them to fall into food. So anyway, there I am, and I'm standing beside her trying to hang chickens. And I really suck at it. I couldn't do it. I mean, I just. I didn't have the coordination. But I did discover what it was like because I did spend eight hours there. And what I discovered was that actually it wasn't a bit boring. Well, first of all, because I was trying to do something that I never did get it right, and everybody was laughing at me. But that's okay, because so what? But what I've learned is, here's what we talked about. We talked about, let's see what various movie stars were up to. We talked about television shows. We talked about.

What a grandchild was doing. It was just sort of like an endless.

I'm not going to say party and gossip session. Doesn't sound quite right. But at every moment there was just talk, talk, talk that was really interesting. So. And I asked my new friend, you know, this seems like a really, really compatible group, and she said they put an enormous amount of effort into having people in groups who will like each other, who will have sort of the same attitudes. And that's one of the big efforts that you have in a plant, to have people who are congenial working together. And I loved it. And I was the butt of a lot of joking because since I couldn't get it right and my chicken has gone by and somebody else has to hang it for me, which they did with no trouble at all. And finally, one guy, I couldn't get one foot using both hands. And a guy I was standing beside was eventually sort of putting his chickens and my chickens.

Just with incredible skill. It's as if he was tossing them in like a basketball almost. And so I ended up with a lot of appreciation for the skill that these jobs have.

Well, I can imagine because the, you know, the belts are going by, I'm sure, at a certain speed. And from a business standpoint, you don't want it to be super slow. You want it to be productive, you know, and efficient. But at the same time, it's got to be enough where people can catch it. So I can imagine that I heard.

From one person later that I didn't need to feel bad that I was just absolutely flunking because he said they all went through it. It's sort of like if I asked you to type a paper and you had never used a typewriter before or a keyboard, it'd take you a long time. But then once you've done it 500 times. It becomes really quite easy.

It's that experience.

Yeah. I mean, you just learn.

It's interesting you bring up typing because English is probably one of the biggest things I've overcame because I failed English seven times. So writing my first, you never guess. Well, thank you. My first book was a real mountain to climb and then the second one was easier. Third, fourth, fifth, and it's been a lot of fun. Doesn't hurt that I've been helping people publish business books for the last nearly years, 10 decade. But when you were saying that, I was like, yeah, I've done real bad at a lot of stuff before too. But if you believe in it, you know, even launching the show, I had no clue what I was doing on the audio side. The video side is beyond confident and those are the saving grace. But I wanted to ask you about that because I can't imagine you being bad at it. Do you think it strictly was just because you'd only done it a few hours?

I don't.

I mean, do you think at three or five days later, a week later, you would have had the flow of it down more?

Yeah, I think I would have. But then, then I'm dyslexic and I reverse Bs and Ds and so I was a little bit of a disadvantage anyway.

But so what, you went for it though? Yeah. You had no need to. But the fact that you had that insatiable curiosity to find out.

I felt at the end of it that I'd made friends. I mean it was. I liked every one of them. And I guess when you're laughing, and I hope what I'm about to say about myself is true, I don't have to be perfect. It doesn't bother me a bit not to be. And yet the laughing was good natured, so I thought it was bonding.

I agree. So I have one more question regarding this and then we're going to go to the Wheel of whatever and I want to ask you, the people you made friends with, were they at your house before or after this?

Because I'm sure it's. I'm sure they would have come to one of the party. Okay. After.

Yeah, it would have been after because this is fairly early on.

Okay, so how did that go? Were you guys talking about it? Was it the whole group when they were there? Because you were saying groups of 100. Was it the core group that you had worked with?

No, it would have been 100 and I would have been. I would have probably said Something. Oh, I'm so happy to see you again. Remember that day?

But then, as hostess, I'm supposed to pay attention to everybody. I can't just go off in the huddle with my new best friends. But it was an odd experience because from being somebody, we're back in the factory again. From being somebody hopelessly incompetent. Not. I mean, I was worth exactly what I was being paid, which is nothing. But then at the end of it, at the end of the eight hours, everybody wants to have their photograph taken with me. And I bet actually in the whole plant show, I bet that there were hundreds of people. And so suddenly I get to be really important after being at the absolute bottom. It was a fun day.

Turn that around. How many? That must have been a lot of Polaroids.

Well, I guess. I don't know why they all had cameras. Maybe they knew I was coming. I don't know. I never, I never examined that.

But have you ever seen the show Undercover Millionaire or Undercover Boss?

I'm deeply aware of it and I've seen segments from it. But this wasn't Undercover. They knew.

Oh, yeah. It's just. Remind me a little bit of that because.

I knew you did it and you had flat out told everyone and it came from your friend you met in the cafeteria. And that's. I think that would be interesting too. I'll do it if you can set it up. I remember you saying that. And you know, she has to ask her supervisor who has to do this. And I can imagine you and Frank having dinner just. Oh, yeah, by the way, you know, you're going to be starting Monday or however that would have panned out. That'd be interesting.

Well, he absolutely loved it because as I mentioned, he's an egalitarian. No one person is more important than another person. And.

I mean, my impression was that he was deeply proud of me. I mean, I think I won a million points with my dear husband that I wanted to.

I can imagine. So here's what we're going to do, because Expert Authority world, we're doing a two parter here and I'm excited about this. I'm going to do the Wheel of Whatever. And Mitzi, I'm also telling you because normally I do the Wheel of Whatever. We do a sponsorship and then we come back for the imperfect action round. And I've been debating, should I ask you those now? No, I'm gonna save it for the end of the second half. So I'm gonna do the Wheel of Whatever and we're Gonna come back for the.

Second half and then we'll finish the show normal. So here it is. So I was laughing earlier when you were talking about being on the hamster wheel, because I'll give you one hint what this thing is.

Does it begin with H? And the next word is W?

It looks more like some kind of photography thing.

No, it's real. It's in my hand. I just spun it.

Okay, what is it?

It's a hamster wheel.

Oh, it really is literally a hamster wheel.

All right, well, for Expert Authority World, it's the wheel of whatever.

That I painted yellow and black. So what was your question? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Treasure Island. Woo. You're on Treasure Island. You lose everything. You have to start over again.

You have $1,000. What would you do in the next 30 days to get it all back?

I'd study.

And let's see, quoting my late father, he used to say, money that you spend on education or tools is always wisely spent, assuming you use the tools. So I'm on Treasure Island, I've got a thousand bucks and I can buy stuff. I mean, I think the first thing I'd do would get some kind of iPad and get Internet connection, and then I'd take courses right and left.

Okay, so you're saying education is the highest resource.

Education coupled with tools. Because my tool is the iPad and the education is the courses that I could take on.

Okay, And I'm going to reiterate this because I don't even think it made sense to me. And I don't know why I called it Treasure island. Because if you were stranded on an island, it sure as heck wouldn't be Treasure. You're on an island, you get off the island, you have a thousand dollars to turn everything around.

So I've got to give a different answer.

No, no, no, you don't need to. But when you said I'm on Treasure island with a thousand dollars, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, That's a stupid name and there's nothing to buy. So that's on me. But that's the whole point of this. This is a fun little area. But you're saying education is the greatest resource.

I do. I do, yeah.

Okay, excellent. Well, I like it. I mean, I'm not disagreeing, but.

Thank you.

Can I turn it around? Is it illegal to ask you what you do?

Holy smokes. No one's ever done this.

Still recording, still livestreaming. No, you can turn it around. We'll throw an audible. So here, I'll Spin it again. What would. Okay, tell me when to stop.

Stop at Treasure Island.

Is that the yellow or black one?

Go with black.

Okay. Oh, matches my hair.

So what would I do?

Yeah.

It's so much easier to spin that thing and just ask.

Well, you copy me. I mean, I appreciate this answer, right.

I would.

I would think of all the people I've helped and people I know.

That are influencers and see what would be the need of. You know.

We didn't put a point in time in this, so this could be in the past and the future. I would find a need, help people with it, and reach out to all the people I already know that I've done stuff with that I know could help expedite it. Because you could spend five or 10 years going from zero to where you're at. But I think all the relational capital.

Would expedite it tremendously. The thousand would be towards if I could get Internet and my. Even. Even without Internet, if I could get my phone.

It's what I started with. I mean, all you need is the right people, the right hearts and the right connections. The rest just makes it. You know, we'll say if this will speed it up three to five years, that might speed it up a couple of months. You know, it's just a convenience factor. But, you know, Sheraton hotels didn't have Internet. They clearly were successful. You know, I didn't really.

Well, they started. I mean, the title of his book was how $1,000 became 400 million.

That's a great title. I mean, when I started off, I had barely anything. There's many times I overdrafted stuff just to get by another 30 days, you know, to that point with the training. And I remember when I took $20 over a decade ago and turned into 20,000. So, yeah, I believe in that education, for sure, but also the relationships. You know, I could rebuild all of this in probably six months. What's taken me the last two to three years.

And that reminds me of something that Frank used to say. He used to quote the great Carnegie. What was. It's not Dale Carnegie. No, Andrew Carnegie. Andrew Carnegie. Andrew Carnegie used to say, take away my plants and leave the people, and I could come back better than ever before. Take away my people and leave the plants, and pretty soon grass will grow in the. On the plant floors. Yeah. So Frank would have loved your answer.

Well, I appreciate that.

I love it. Can we erase the tape? And I want to take your answer because it's a better one.

I don't know if it's better, it's. I literally, I've never asked anyone that. And normally I say who is someone famous you'd like to do business with this and that. And I'm like, what do I ask you? Because you, you are someone famous and you know these people. And I'm like, she's probably been working with them 20 years. That's not even a stretch. That's like normal every day for you. I'm like, oh, I got this one. So when you.

I love the question. I mean it really made me think.

Made me think too.

Yeah. And I would like to revise and extend my remarks and say yeah, that it's the relationships but, but I still think that, that education and tools are for sure. I'd put some of the thousand dollars into that.

Yeah, I agree. And I forgot for a second I'm hosting, I thought it was tomorrow when I'm doing going on other shows. That was a lot of fun. Thank you. No, I've never asked that and no one has ever done that to me. So I don't know if I hope it's a trend but I enjoyed it for right now today.

And I'm thinking bad Mitzi, bad guest.

No, you're a blast. So here's what we're going to do. Two parter.

Oh, we still got plenty of time. Perfect. We are awesome. So here's what we're going to do, Mitzi and expert Authority World. We're going to thank the sponsor and I'm going to come back and we're just going to roll into part two. Sound good?

Sounds good.

You're already the expert.

But.

But have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate and qualify leads while increasing profit for you 24 7? And if so, how well are you promoting it? With the expert Authority effect publishing method, it's easier and faster than ever. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started. Now once again, that's free businessbook publishingcourse.com hey, thanks for listening to today's episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven't done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show and also be sure to check out eainterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned and more Have a blessed day and I'll see you tomorrow.