0243 | Leveraging Copywriting For Profit in a Digital World with Jacob McMillen

Hi, my name is Jacob McMillan from JacobMcMillin.com and you're listening to EA interviews.

EA interviews, episode 243, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week, join Mario Ficcini for today's expert authority effect interview. I'm going to lose my mind. Why isn't this going on? We've been putting so much money into this and nothing's working. Maybe we should go on this newspaper. Maybe we should do that. Have you ever seen people do that or heard that? Or you just run an ad campaign or you run a Facebook click campaign or some sort of ad campaign that you saw was the newest, latest and greatest, hotting and trending, whatever the heck, and it didn't work? Well, I'm gonna tell you the answer to that right now. It's called copywriting. And your messaging is probably jacked up. That's why I'm excited to have Jacob McMillan on the show today. We're gonna dive into copywriting and the importance and I'm going to bring them back right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Jacob McMillan. Jacob, how are you feeling today?

Doing great. How about you?

I am excited to dive into copywriting because I know the importance of it. I don't think most people do. And I want to know what, what's your take on it?

Yeah, I mean, copywriting is kind of the, it's the fuel that drives online business.

I bet if you think of the last 20 products that you bought online, at some point during that process, you read some words, you read a page, something that you read to get you to make that decision, to purchase. And so it drives everything. Things that we think about, things that we don't think about. It's kind of the fuel that drives the web.

But how important is the message? I mean, wouldn't it be smarter to just maybe run the Same campaign on LinkedIn as we're doing on Facebook?

Yeah. Copywriting at its core is all about communicating a specific message, a specific offer to each audience that you're in front of. You know, every different platform, every different campaign, the wording that you're using, the messaging needs to be, you know, a little bit different. It needs to be targeted and focused at you know, the specific people that you're, you're talking to, it's kind of like, it's like asynchronous sales. You know, instead of having a one to one conversation, you're anticipating, you know, what the person, you know, that you're speaking to through the screen is going to be thinking. And wherever, you know, wherever you are online, wherever you're talking, that person's going to be a little bit different and going to need a little bit different messaging.

But Jacob, that sounds like a lot of work. I just want to copy and paste the thing because we already got the graphics done, we already paid the web designer and why do we have to change all the messages?

Yeah, I mean, it is a lot of work and it's one of the reasons that copywriting is such a high demand skill, such a high demand service these days, because there's hundreds of places online that you have people that you need to speak to. And as I said, they kind of all require slightly different messaging. And you know, we think about something like TikTok that's been blowing up over the last few years. Five years ago, no one even knew what that was. And here it is a new platform that has new messaging requirements and it absolutely is a lot of work.

Well, I'm, I don't know if I'm done teasing you just yet about it, but that is the honest to God's truth. Because in I wanted to play devil's advocate because so many people have the attitude, I'll raise my hand first because the reality is we did pay the designers, we did pay the web designers, we paid the graphic, you know, can we just copy and paste this and be done with it? And the answer is no. But what would you say to someone who has the attitude and is wrong to say, let's dive into the benefits of it? Okay, it's going to be a lot of work, it's probably going to be an extra investment you didn't account for. But what are the upsides of it? Take us through that.

Yeah, I mean, if you think about the most successful way to sell someone or to make a sell, it's to sit down with someone one on one and go through the process of talking to them, finding out what their unique needs are, what the problems that they're trying to solve, and then connect the solution of your product or service to their unique problems. And so obviously for a lot of businesses, in terms of the sales they're doing, they're wanting to scale past the requirements of one to one if you think about if you needed to have an actual live salesperson, what you'd need to pay them to have a one to one conversation with everyone. Some business models do that, but for a lot of us, that's way too much of an expense. So hiring a copywriter to come in and basically try to emulate that process to 500 people, to 1,000 people, to 50,000 people, that's drastically cheaper than having a set, you know, paying for a salesperson to go through and talk with 50,000 people. So I mean, at the end of the day, it's sort of a, it's a discussion of scale. And you know, it absolutely can be a large cost. But I mean, when we think about it, you know, it's kind of about finding that balance between, you know, how grand, how granular you want to be with your message and the benefits that come from that. And you're typically looking for, you know, a range where the segmentation gives you a return on your investment.

I want to ask you about the. Why is the.

I want to ask you why do you feel it's so powerful to have that one on one versus just throwing some mud against the wall or putting some random stuff on, wherever the heck?

Yeah, it's kind of wild. I mean, because I did before I got into copywriting, I was in direct one to one sales. And what's so crazy is when you take the time to listen to someone explain the unique challenges that they're facing, it's really easy to sell them because you can basically just repeat back to them exactly what they said to you and they're going to be really excited about the solution. You know, they say that they need abc and you say, hey, I'm going to give you ABC and here's how I'm going to do it. And it's, you know, it's just a very high rate of sales. When I did one to one sales, I had a 40% conversion rate, which is just, you know, that's like for every, what, three people I'm sitting down with, you know, more than two on average are purchasing because they basically will sell themselves. You just listen to them tell you what they need and then say, hey, here's how I'm going to give that to you. And so that's kind of, you know, that's why it's so powerful is because they're sort of selling themselves by explaining exactly what they need. And so you kind of want to, you know, when you, when we get into copywriting, we're trying to pull as much of that process out into the, you know, into the copywriting and anticipating, hey, for this group of people, they're all going to have fairly similar needs, they're all going to have fairly similar challenges. And so you just sort of imagine that you're sitting in the room with that person one to one, and, you know, explaining how you're going to help them.

So I want to. Are you open for a challenge?

Yeah, sure.

So I know a lot of people that do one on one, and I've done it before in the past and it's nice, especially if you're at a nice restaurant. But I've also seen a lot of people who are very unsuccessful with it. Now, I don't disagree that if we're sitting down one on one, it's probably the easiest way to sell someone, without a doubt because of what you had said. But for the people who aren't successful with it, why do you think they're unsuccessful with it?

Yeah, so, I mean, there's two factors at play. You know, first of all, product market fit has to be there, you know, and generally speaking, you're not going to out persuade, you know, some. You're not going to persuade someone into product market fit. So the first step is having, you know, some level of real connection between what they need and what you, you know, what you're offering. But one of the biggest mistakes that people make both in sales and in copywriting is they come in looking to sell. You know, they come in looking to pitch their product. And in their mind, it's all about them. It's all about what they're doing. And that's the absolute worst way to sell, you know, because as I mentioned before, you want to let them sell themselves. You know, you want to let them really dig into the challenges that they're facing. And, and then, you know, assuming that product market fit is there, it makes it really easy to just, you know, let them explain it and then again, like literally just repeat back to them what they said to you. And that's the best sales pitch you're ever going to have. And, you know, so it's just, it's very inverse of how most people think when they think of sales. And so that's kind of why a lot of people struggle with it, is they can't get, they can't step away from that mentality of I need to persuade you to do something versus I need to really understand what's challenging you and then just connect what I'm doing to the challenge that you're facing, should.

You pre qualify them?

I mean, to some extent it kind of depends on the marketing campaign that you're doing.

When we connect that to copywriting, for example, you're looking to get targeted traffic to the page that you're doing your copywriting on. Um, but kind of in that vein, you know, you're going to be, you know, you're going to be writing copy to the people who are a good fit, not the people who aren't a good fit. So sometimes it's okay, you know, if the wrong people are coming and they're not responding to it, that's okay because we're looking for the right people to respond to it.

So we're going from one on one to let's say one to 50, one to 100, one to 500 or 1000. When you can narrow that down. Is there any limit you can't scale it to?

I mean, I would say it just comes down to, you know, when you identify the core challenges that your product solves and the core benefits that your product provides. You know, it really just comes down to how, how big of a group are experiencing, you know, any given, any one of those challenges. So if, you know, when we're talking about certain products, like say, you know, like if you're selling a mattress and you're just looking to help people get a good night's sleep, I mean, your target market is anyone who can reasonably afford the price of mattress you're selling. You know, it could be tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people. Whereas if you're talking about, you know, how to get more revenue from your E commerce marketing funnel, well, you know, the group of people who are having email marketing struggles for their E commerce store is drastically smaller. So it kind of just comes down to the size of, you know, the segment you've identified, the core challenges, core.

Benefits with, how do you identify that core segment?

So there's no shortcut, it's just understanding, understanding your target market. And that's where, you know, in the past I've done, when I've been wanting to do copywriting, you know, for a larger audience, I still won't skip the one to one calls, the one to one conversations to really dig in and try to understand my target market, what they're really experiencing as a general rule, as a copywriter, any client I'm working with, they have a whole sales team that's done or a customer service team even, that's done one to one calls. And so we're just looking to hear what have the customers already told us and how can we incorporate that into what we're saying back to the customers? It's just, it's basically that same process of the one to one conversation just extended over kind of a broader, more disjointed online experience that we're trying to take from being broader and disjointed and make it real succinct and really straightforward.

How many, what sample size do you need to work with of the one on one? So if someone doesn't have a sales team and it, or a large one, I should say, if it's like a sales team of 5 to 25 versus a big company with hundreds, how many case studies, if you will, or how many people do you think you should have? Are we talking about a sample of 50, 100, 500? Before you start seeing the patterns to go, hey, here's the top 10 things that people keep talking about.

Yeah, so I mean, it kind of comes down. It's less about what is statistically the right answer and more about what does your, you know, what can your budget afford? Cause, you know, for a lot of budgets that people put into copywriting, they can't afford to pay for the copywriter to sit down with, you know, 10 people, let alone 50. So it's kind of like, you know, you want to kind of look for the pieces in a, you know, most efficient way possible, which is going to be, you know, like more survey type data, more, you know, that type of feedback across a broad range. Because you do, you do have to be careful of, you know, if you only, if you only talk to five people and that's all you do, you might run into the position where those five people, what mattered to them isn't representative of the whole group. So you kind of want to pair, you know, maybe a handful of one to one conversations. That lets you go deeper with a broader set of more simple, easier, less expensive to get data. And so if you can combine those two things, that usually puts you in a good spot. And yeah, so I would say if you can get 50 to 100 bits of replies of real people using your product or thinking about using your product and then have a conversation with like five people, that's usually going to work for most people. Obviously if you're investing, you know, $100,000 into a funnel and you're planning to run 5 million in ad spend through it, you're going to be a little bit more aggressive with that. But that's not applicable to, you know.

Most People, what would you say to someone who is in that situation where they're going to put 5 million on the ad spend and have 100 grand for the funnel? What percentage do you think they should allocate to making sure this is.

There'S nothing wrong with it and they have all the data? Because again, I know people in both of those situations and I've seen both of them do really good and I've seen both of them do really bad.

Yeah. So when we talk about bigger budgets like that, what I'm essentially going to say is that the first draft is a guess. You know, there is no way to perfectly predict, based on even direct customer feedback, how that initial draft is going to perform. So what you want to do is you want to, you know, spend some time to give it your best shot on it, but then, you know, you're looking to iterate very quickly. You know, the benefit of all that ad spend is we can very quickly run, you know, 10,000 people through a page and then figure out exactly where they're responding, how they're engaging with that page, and make adjustments, you know, make an adjustment, run another 10,000 through it, make an adjustment. Ultimately, it's not important that we're profitable on the first, you know, $100,000. When we're talking about a 5 million spend, what we really care about is being profitable at the end of that spend.

And when you're talking about seeing how they interact with the page, you're referring to like the analytics, the heat maps, the click throughs, the pixels and all that stuff.

Exactly. The more spend we're doing, the more granular we want to be with analyzing how people are engaging with every part of that page. Because then it's like if we see that, hey, people are scrolling through the first third and then we're losing half our visitors on after a few seconds, then that means we need to do a lot of work on that first part of the page. Whereas if they are getting all the way down to the end, then just not converting that suggests another issue. Maybe we're not resonating with the challenges correctly, or we picked the wrong benefits to focus on, or we haven't put enough social proof or trust risk reversal into the copy. It just.

The more we can analyze, then it just allows us to more specifically tackle bottlenecks in the, in the.

Funnel and expert authority world. What we're talking about here is the tracking on the page, the pixels, the analytics. There's many other episodes of EA interviews with SEO, specific funnels, conversions all that. It's so voluminous. We're not going to dive deeper into it here. But it's so important because if your messaging isn't right, they're probably not even going to click. But if they, once you do get them clicking, if you have no idea what they're doing or how they're doing it or how often you lose them also. So back to the copywriting. How did you get into it?

Yeah, so I did, actually did door to door sales in college to pay my way through school.

Good for you.

And getting out. I got an accounting degree. Only thing I knew getting out of college was that I did not want to be an accountant. So I was like, okay, you know, what's next? Why not? Yeah, great investment, right?

Why wouldn't you want to be an accountant?

So it was kind of, I think the big thing with accounting was I was, I was looking at the career path and I was like, my mentality was I'm happy to hustle and put the time in during my 20s, even my 30s, but by the time I get, you know, kind of up the ladder, I don't, you know, I want to be able to scale back my work a bit and let, you know, let that hustle pay off for me. And when I looked at the accounting, kind of particularly like a big four route where a lot of, A lot of the money is the higher up you go, the more you work.

The partners, they're hustling more than the interns. So it's like in a lot of senses, it was just kind of like, yeah, I didn't want to pick a career where I worked more the further I got. So I kind of discovered online marketing. I was like, hey, this is kind of the opposite. You know, you put the hustle in to build some of these recurring revenue assets early and then, you know, they work for you as you get older.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So I got into that. I first came into the online marketing world through SEO. And about a year into, you know, my journey there, I discovered copywriting. And I was like, hey, this is everything I loved about direct sales minus everything I hated about direct sales. I was like, this, this kind of feels like it's for me. I, you know, I, I had never been like, like a, a writing hobbyist, but I was always a pretty decent writer and enjoyed the process of it. So it kind of just, it just felt like, you know, the right career for me and I dove in and, you know, eight years later, here I am.

Wow, congrats. And I never Wanted to be an accountant. But I. I failed English seven times. So writing was never, ever at the forefront of my mind until I did my first book. And then I'm like, okay, okay. I see why this has been around thousands of years. And the more and more I got into it, I actually enjoy writing now. And because for me, it's delivering the message. This is another medium. And this is one of the things I teach with the expert authority effect. This is. You need to know your market and your message, but this is a medium. Whether we're on audio, video, in person, out of person, whatever. I don't even know. You know, I said years ago, when we start using holograms for marketing, it doesn't matter. You can still have the cool new technology. And that's why I was kind of making fun of it at the beginning, because, you know, I've heard it too. They're like, you know, And I tell my author clients, I go, we need to get your messaging succinct. Because when they're reading your book, when we publish your business book, that might be the only interaction with you they get. You better make darn sure that it's on point. So I've done a full 180 with the whole writing and everything. And I've also come to. To, you know, find copywriting. It's a lot of fun because you can just look at stuff, and it's like, cool funnel. Sure. You spent you know, tens of thousands on that. And I see your ads. I checked the Facebook ads library. See, you're doing a lot here, but your messaging's trash, you know, so.

Yeah, I love that you brought that up because, you know, going from failing English class to publishing multiple books, like, it's like the people. Our concept of what writing is in school is so different than what it actually is in a business and a marketing context, because it's like you're sort of just like, you know, in English class, the goal is all you're sleeping.

In English class is what you're doing.

Yeah, exactly. And then you get into kind of the real world, and writing in the real world is all about, you know, like you said, all about communicating a message and, you know, like, accomplishing an objective. It's very strategic. It's not. It's not sort of vague what you're trying to accomplish. It's very specific. And so a lot of people who did not enjoy writing in school actually find, you know, kind of find their writing legs out in the business world. And it's amazing.

Yeah, And I'll also say this to the difference of having to write an essay on what's the diameter of under the chair. It's like, who cares? Versus, hey, let's test this out for a week. We could go from a 5x profit to an 8x. Yeah, that might be worth 12 minutes.

Exactly.

So I think we've made a strong enough case for people. They should be caring about the copywriting. Couple more things I want to ask you. If someone's never, okay, if someone's never done this in their life, where should they be starting? And I know we talked about knowing your market in this, but what would you say is a tangible thing? Like should they go to the website first? Should they go to something physical? Should they go to their book? Should they go to what they're, you know, if their author, speaker. Where's one place that they can. Would you would say is the easiest for them to see the biggest change right now?

I think probably.

Framework understanding, a copywriting framework, looking up established, proven frameworks.

Just like when you learn sales, you learn to walk the prospect through a intentional set of ideas. And it's the same with copywriting understanding. We think about the going back to English class, you look at a blank page and think, I need to write something. And it's, it's overwhelming. But if you, or draw something, or draw exactly. But if you come in and you know, exactly, hey, I'm going to do this, then this, then this, then this, then it's much simpler. You know, it's just about thinking, okay, what do I need to say in section one? What do I need to say in section two, three, four. So just kind of, you know, finding, finding a copywriting framework. And you can, you know, you can Google copywriting framework.

What's one of your favorite frameworks and what's the first step of it?

So I mean, one, when we talk about, since we were using the ads example earlier, we have the ADA framework Aida, which is attention, interest, desire and action. And so essentially there we're just thinking, hey, what's, you know, in this first bit, we need to say something that really grabs people's attention. Like, you know, typically not in, you know, in 2020, 2021, we're talking about Facebook ads. Really, you know, when you say paid ads, that's kind of the, the flywheel for most businesses. So, you know, when we talk about the ADA framework, we're looking at, hey, we need to catch someone's attention in a crowded, noisy space right off the bat.

And you're talking about like a headline.

Yeah, I mean, headline is a huge part of ada. You know, it could connect into like the visual creative as well or the first, the first sentence or two you see on like, you know, if you spend some time on LinkedIn, you see a lot of these posts where they like intentionally leave a gap. So you have to click to like open it up. So you know that, that is about that curiosity hook in that first bit of the post. It's kind of that same idea, you know, you want to, you want to stop people with curiosity, with saying something outlandish, with whatever it is that gets them to stop. That's what's important, you know, and then from there you need to very quickly translate attention into genuine interest, you know, because they're not, they're not going to stay forever just based on curiosity. So you have to, you know, you have to transition that into, you know, having a core message that they're interested in. You know, and that's usually. Storytelling is usually how you do that. You know, people, people are always interested in stories. And then, you know, in that story, you want to create desire for whatever the, you know, the action is that you're wanting to motivate, you know, whatever the sell is to get them to get that click. You want to use the story to generate desire for what you're talking about. And then, you know, at the end, at the end of the day, attention, desire, interest don't mean anything if we can't get the action. So at the end of the day, we're looking for that direct action of the click through, you know, the sign up, the purchase, whatever it is.

And that is so important. Thank you for explaining that in detail because I find a lot of people see this and they hear it and everyone knows what a headline is. And if you don't, you need to like listen to every episode of the show. But you need to know what the headline is, the sub headline. And go through this and we see it, we're inundated with it all day. And people, I'd say the biggest thing they have is they think it's not working on Facebook. Let me go to LinkedIn, let me go, go to YouTube. And they're switching the medium. They never even look at the message over here and they sure as heck don't know their market. So to your point of, you know, you got to get people to click, they also have to be the right person. So what are some ways you would say to intentionally repel. And I know this might be Weird for expert authority, world listening, going, okay, so you're telling me to create an ad that gets people to click, and I'm going to spend money to get them rejected. Why is that so important?

Yeah, so, I mean, there's sort of two elements to that with ads. There's the targeting and then the messaging. And so the targeting does need to be more specific. When we talk about the messaging, you can't really give a powerful message that resonates with a specific segment without, in most cases, alienating other people. If I'm talking to 100 people and what I'm saying is interesting to all 100 of them, if we're just talking about a random segment of people, it's probably not going to be very powerful, very, you know, targeted at the person I.

It's not going to be compelling at all.

Exactly. And so, so you. It's. It's kind of. It's. It's less about, you know, looking to repel anyone and more about looking to make it so specific that anyone who's not your target market just would have no interest whatsoever. You know, they just, like, they'd look at it and be like, I don't want that. You know, so it's kind of like, you know, like, if we're talking about, say, you know, my audience, I want to talk to writers. Like, I help writers earn more. And so, you know, if I'm delivering a message that's general about freelancing in general, to where someone who's a designer, say, is interested in my message, I'm doing it wrong, you know, because even though there's a lot of overlap, like, I want to speak to writers specifically, I don't. I don't have anything to offer designers. I'm not a designer, you know, even though they're a freelancer as well. And I talk to a lot of freelance writers. If my messaging appeals to designers, I'm screwing up, you know, so I need to. I need to make it more targeted. And it's kind of, you know, it's a little bit counterintuitive because a lot of people think, you know, tend to think broad and tend to think I want to appeal to more people. But you don't, you know, you want to appeal to the specific segment that you're looking to, you know, help or sell to.

That's powerful. And I'm glad you touched on that, because too many people are talking broad. If you're talking to everyone, you're talking to no one. End story.

Yep.

How you get there, that's a loaded question, but that's why I'm having fun unpacking it with you. Why don't you tell us about some of your success stories? What's the biggest transformation you've had from one of your clients?

Yeah, so one of the things that I've been most focused on over the last few years is content that brings in real customers. Blog content that's not just offering value to people, but is actually getting them to engage with the brand, sign up, come through and then sell on the back end through the funnel. And so, you know, my most recent client, you know, in about nine months, just through, you know, really targeted blog content that like we said, was not appealing to any old person running a business, but in this case appealing to people who are looking to do consulting specifically. And in nine months, you know, we're doing $415,000 net profit on a brand new, brand new website, brand new blog. Just because again, we went targeted, you know, we went targeted, we went in depth and we kept it focused specifically on the readers. And then on my, you know, on one of my own businesses this last year, doing, taking the same concept going, you know, going specifically to people who are writers and helping writers earn more went from zero to about 22,000 per month in 15 months. Again, because I wasn't speaking to everyone, speaking to those specific people, really finding out, doing the one on one calls, even when it wasn't profitable to me to spend an hour talking with someone, but it was in the long term really understanding what are they going through, what are the things that aren't being solved for them translated to being able to really resonate with that audience over the long term.

Those are excellent case studies. And if anyone's trying to do the math, it comes out to about 50 grand extra a month, which is.

Not horrible for changing, you know, please don't be insulted, but changing a few words around, and I know it's more complex than that, we just talked about that, but you know what I mean, it's like that essentially that's what it comes down to is we just increase profit tenfold by what, changing some words around.

So would you say it's worth doing?

Yes, absolutely. It's kind of one of those things where if you can't deliver a clear message, you're never going to, no matter how valuable what you're doing is, you're never really going to be able to communicate that value. And you know, when it comes to writing in particular, some people just really struggle to translate their thoughts into words. And if that's you, you know, there's a massive market of copywriters out there ready and willing to help you at a wide variety of price points. You know, it's just like there's a huge market that you can tap into. And if, you know, if you're on the boat where you. It's not a struggle, you know, you can translate your thoughts into words pretty, pretty well, then learning. Learning those frameworks, you know, learning the techniques to really make your message clear, to really focus on the right things in the right order, it's absolutely going to increase your earnings and your business virtually overnight. And then as you get better and better over time, even more.

If that doesn't excite you, then I don't know what would, especially if you're in business. So thank you for sharing that. We have the wheel of whatever. Now, before we thank our sponsor and come back for the impression, perfect action around.

What's the deal with this? What's the question? You're going to get. You see it right there?

No, it's because there's nothing on there. I make these up on the fly.

That's an okay spin. I still need to get the clicker.

Working on it. Shows a work in progress, just like me. Okay, so here's your question.

Who is a copywriter you would love to have dinner with? And why.

Alive or not?

That's a good one, huh?

That's a good one. Yeah. I mean, aim to please. The godfather of copywriting is Ogilvy. So, I mean, you know, like, you gotta say that, you know, Right.

You don't have to. I was kind of wondering if you. I had it down to two.

He was one of those.

Yeah. I mean, absolutely. Him.

You know, thinking maybe. Maybe someone more modern. I don't know if you're familiar with Ramit Sethi, but he's. He's a guy I follow. I love his copy. You know, he's not. He wouldn't really refer to himself as a copywriter by trade, but I've just. I've always really appreciated his copy and the branding that he weaves into his copy. So it'd be. It'd be fun to sit down and, you know, talk with him about business and copy and all that jazz.

Well, the good news is he's still alive, so you can.

Yes. Yeah.

And all I'm ever doing on the show is looking for honest answers. There's no wrong ones. And it's interesting because there's so many good copywriters out there, but Certain ones focus on different avenues. And I tell people this all the time, just like with marketers or just like with coaches or just like with whatever. It's like there's so many good people nowadays. Find the one that you resonate with the most. You might, you know, here's 10 people, they're all good, they're all qualified, but maybe you just like A's personality better. You know, I've said it to my authors before. They're like, why would anyone want a book on this? There's 58 others. I go, yeah, but they're not from you and your perspective and your experience.

So true.

I mean, I have many episodes where it's similar topics but the guest are night and day difference, you know, so it's like choose the one you like the best. So thank you for that answer. We are going to thank the sponsor and we're going to come back to the imperfect action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why you should visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having an idea and a possibility to actually getting my book published. Or Catherine, thank you for making my.

Mom number one best selling author.

Or Mary Alice, what he got done for me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable. John Cody. I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful.

In getting me where I needed to go with promoting my books. Rocio, there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past.

It didn't serve me.

As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process. Adele, if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner.

I can't make a higher recommendation than to work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for me and.

Right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started now and I look forward to hearing your transformation as the next video success story. Once again, that's free businessbook publishingcourse.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Jacob, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Let's do it.

The first question I have for you, and these are 60 second or less answers, is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Clarity.

Clarity, clarity, clarity. Giving your message, delivering your message of value with clear, clear words, making it easy to understand.

Very good. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

The opposite of that. So basically focusing on themselves, focusing on, you know, some really vague, overly broad presentation of value instead of being real clear. Trying too hard to persuade, trying too hard to sell instead of just, you know, clearly addressing the challenges and the benefits and focusing there.

Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Oh, so I think consistency in your messaging and holding true to the vision that brought them there in the first place. You know, so often what they get two, three months in is sort of disconnected from what brings them into the first place. So just staying consistent, staying on brand and value focused with your message through, you know, ongoing is what keeps people around.

Very good. What are some books you'd recommend to Expert Authority World that have made a difference in your life?

So I really like Made to Stick. It's one of those books that kind of cuts through to the idea of messaging that actually stays with people and just makes it really practical. It applies, you know, it applies to copywriting, but applies to, you know, business building and messaging in general. And so that'd be probably the number one.

Excellent. Where would you like people to learn more?

If you go to my website, JacobMcMillan.com I have over 175,000 words of free content published. I do a weekly 10 minute podcast on Mondays where we talk about writing, marketing and freelancing and then lots of some interesting free courses that you can get as well. So if you want to learn more, head there.

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing. I got a lot out of it and had a lot of fun in the process. So thank you.

Thanks for having me, Mario. It was a blast.

All right, Expert authority world. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. God bless. You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate and qualify leads while increasing profit for you 24? 7 and if so, how well are you promoting it? With the expert authority effect publishing method, it's easier and faster than ever. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started. Now. Once again, that's free businessbook publishingcourse.com hey, thanks for listening to today's episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven't done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show. And also be sure to check out eainterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you tomorrow.