0252 | How to Convert Engaged Listeners Into Fanatic Followers and Hungry Buyers Leveraging Podbooker: Guest Podcasting Booking Platform with Founder & CEO Daniel Gefen

Hey, this is Daniel Geffen with podbooker.com and you're listening to EA interviews, EA.

Interviews episode 252, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week. Join Mario Ficcini for today's expert Authority effect interview. All right, Expert Authority World. They let me off the chain today and I'm taking full advantage of it. I am super excited to have our next guest on today's episode. If you've ever thought about starting a podcast, trying to book guests and just figuring out where do I find these people, what do I do? I am excited to have none other than best selling author, speaker, CEO and SAS developer Daniel Geffen on today's episode. And we're going to dive into all things podcast, how to book guest, how to find the right ones, and maybe, maybe, just maybe, if you qualify, he can even find them for you and deliver them up on a silver platter. I'm going to bring them up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's free business book publishing course.

Period. Ladies and gentlemen, Daniel Geffen. Daniel, how are you feeling today?

I'm feeling very special. This is incredible. Wow, what a production. I just want to take my hat off. I'm not wearing one, but if I had one, I take it off to you, Mario. This is incredible. I've been on a lot of podcasts and I feel like I'm on primetime TV right now. It's incredible. And wow, look at your time, man. That's like beautiful. I love it.

Well, I appreciate that on Wednesdays we wear pink.

We wear pink. Ugh. You know, I wish I would have known because I would have wore pink, but you didn't tell me. Oh, well.

Well, the important thing is you have the content and that is first and foremost, most important. All the bells and whistles make it look nice and I appreciate the compliments and I'm glad it does look nice. But the main thing is the content and I know you can deliver on that because you are just such a wealth of. And why don't you tell us a little bit about your story and how you got into it because it's so compelling to me, first of all.

I appreciate that. Thank you all. I hope I deliver. Now after that kind of introduction.

You will. I'm not worried. We're just going to have Some fun.

All right, cool. So the backstory, I'll try to keep it as brief as I can. About four years ago, I was playing tennis, and I get this phone call from. From this complete stranger who said to me, daniel, I hear you have an interesting business story. I'd like to have you on my podcast. And I'll never forget my response to him, which was, what the heck is a podcast? I had no idea what a podcast was. And in fact, Mario, four years ago, most people didn't know what a podcast was. Today, now, there's over 150 million Americans listening to podcasts regularly, which is incredible. And there's over 1.5 million podcasts out there, and that number is just growing every day. But four years ago, you know, most people didn't know what podcasts were. So he explained it to me, and just to kind of give you context for this, because a lot of people, they say to me, daniel, you know, I don't know if I can go on podcasts because, you know, I'm not famous. I don't have a book. I don't have a following. You know, all that stuff. At that time, I did not have any social media following. I didn't have an email list, zero, nothing. I didn't have a book. I didn't have any speaking experience, unless you count me jumping on tables in high school and getting detention for that. That was basically, yeah, that was my speaking experience, but other than that, nothing. And so when this person invited me on their podcast, I was very honored, and I said, sure, you know, I'd love to come on. So next thing I know, I'm sitting in my pajamas, staring at a blank wall, speaking into a microphone. By the way, I'm actually in my pajamas right now. So not much has changed since then. But.

I just started speaking and sharing my story. And at the end, the host said, well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Daniel. And I said, well, you know, thank you so much for having me. But in my mind, I'm thinking, besides, for this guy and his mother, who else is listening to this, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, who am I talking to? So I kind of, you know, picked up the courage and said, I hope you don't mind me asking this, but, like, you know, how many people are actually listening to this? And in my mind, I really thought he was going to say something like, you know, 10, 20 people, which, you know, would have been fine, because at that point, that would have been 10 or 20 people more than I had that, you know, that were in my network, right? And so when he turned around and said, well, Daniel, there were over 1,000 people listening. I fell off my chair. I said, what, are you kidding? Can you repeat that? Did you just say a thousand people? He said, yeah. I said, come on, there's no way. Where are all these people? And he said, well, they're all over the world. And he starts listing all these countries, some of them I didn't even recognize. That was nuts. I thought to myself, some of the biggest speakers in the world get on stage, and if they've got over a thousand people in the audience, that's a packed crowd. And here's Daniel Geffen, who's. There's nobody like invisible online. If you type my name into Google. Back then, I didn't show up, right? And here I am speaking to over a thousand people all over the world. And that was just a huge. For me, it was like a huge realization that this is going to be. This is going to be massive. I need to get into podcasting. So two weeks later, I started my own podcast called can I pick your brain? The goal was to interview the leading business owners, you know, leading business people of the generation. There were only two problems, Mario. One, I didn't know any, you know, successful business owners to interview because I had no network, small problem, right? And two, I had no audience. So how do I get people to listen to the podcast? So that's when I had this. This sort of light bulb moment when I realized, you know, that guy had over a thousand people listening. Why don't I just go on other podcasts and leverage other people's audiences instead of trying to figure out how do I build my own audience, I'll just be a guest on other podcasts and hopefully they'll come and listen to my podcast. So that was my tactic, and it worked way better than I could ever have dreamt in my wildest imagination. In a very short period of time, my podcast hit over 300,000 downloads, became a top 50 ranked podcast on iTunes. I ended up interviewing four billionaires, the smartest man alive, the US memory champion, the leading hostage negotiator for the FBI, and a whole host of other incredible guests. And then I wrote a book, which became an international bestseller. And this was all just getting booked on podcasts. It was incredible. So that's the first part of the story. Second part.

Let me, let me. Before we get to the second part, you just gave so many expert authority insights there. I just want to unpack a Few of them for the audience. Because you were saying, can you give me a year? Just so. Because this is going to, you know, this is going to be evergreen. And you said four years ago. But what year was that specifically?

Well, this was 2016, roughly.

That's what I was thinking.

Yeah. The end of 2016.

Okay, so the end of 2016, you had started this. How many. How many other shows did you go on in the first six months to 12 months, would you say, to get the show from zero to 300,000 downloads?

Yeah, I would probably say. I went on. It's a good question. I probably. I lost count. Um, which is. Yeah, which is actually, it's interesting because when I launched, we could talk about podbooker soon, I'm sure. But when I launched.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. When I launched podbooker, the platform. So one of the things that I wanted to solve, there were a lot of problems I wanted to solve, but one of the problems that I wanted to solve was how do you keep track of all the podcast appearances that you've been on? Right. Most people, if you ask them, you know, which podcasts have you been on? A lot of them don't remember because they've been on so many, and it's just hard to keep track of it. All right, so, yeah, with Pod Book.

I can relate to that.

You can. On podbooker, you've got a guest profile, and on your guest profile, you can upload very easily all of the podcasts that you've been featured on. So now if you go to my podbooker profile, you'll see all the podcasts that I've been a guest on that I can remember. I'm still remembering them, but I think there were about 50. If I was to throw out a number, it was about, I would say between 50 and 60 podcasts.

In the first six months?

No, not in the first six months. I would say the first year. Yeah, the first year, I would say maybe 50. Around 50.

Okay.

Yeah.

See, and what I'm hearing about that is you had very great growth, but 50 over the course of a year in the, you know, take a couple weeks off for holiday. That's one a week. That's very manageable. That's not over the top.

No, not consistent. Yeah, not at all. And if you think about the time investment, I mean, the average podcast is 45 minutes long. Right. So if you're doing one a week, that's really pretty much putting aside an hour a week. It's. It's very little time. Investment for the, for the return that you get. It's incredible.

Yeah. And if you're Talking about that 45 minutes extrapolated all year, you're talking maybe one week's work, like a full 40 hour workweek.

Yeah, yeah. It's a no brainer. I mean, personally, I would recommend if, if, if you can, if you could do a podcast a day, that, that would be ideal.

You're talking supernatural growth.

I'm serious, man. You got to get serious about this. If you really want to blow, blow up your brand reach.

Oh, I know you're serious.

You know, you gotta, you gotta do it. And you know, to put aside an hour a day to really build your audience and build your authority, I don't see any other thing that you could possibly do today that would give you a better return on your time.

Now I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and say, well, what about book publishing? What about running ads? What about speaking at someone else's summit?

I'll go into all of them if you want. Let's, let's talk about.

So please do.

Let's start with. Let's. Let's start with the one that everybody does, which is social media, right? Yeah, everybody.

Whatever you want, say whatever you want.

Everyone I speak to that is published a book or wants to promote their whatever product, service or want to, wants to build their brand. I asked them, what are you doing right now? Oh, I'm going on social media. Really? Oh, wow. Yeah. You're going on social, what with the other, I don't know how many billion people that are on there. Right. It's so noisy. The average attention span right now on social media is three seconds. So just to paint the picture for you, if you put a post up on Instagram or Facebook, Susie sitting on the toilet till her thighs go numb is scrolling through that feed feed. And you might get, if you're lucky, 2.9 seconds of her attention.

It's worthless. What are you going to sell in three seconds of someone's attention? And that attention, how much is that attention worth? They're not thinking about investing in themselves at that point. When you're sitting on the couch, scrolling through Facebook or whatever, you're in a mind numbing.

Mindset. You're not in a growth mindset. People who listen to podcasts, on the other hand, are growth minded people. They're people who are wanting to invest in themselves. They're people who want to learn, to grow. If you're listening to this right now, I congratulate you you're someone who invests in yourself. You're someone that sets aside time to want to grow and learn and gain knowledge. And, you know, you could be listening to Metallica while you're going on your run, or you could be watching some, you know, mind numbing whatever on YouTube or scrolling through a Facebook feed. So congratulations for tuning in. But that's the kind of audience you want to be in front of, right? The average podcast episode is 45 minutes long. Over 85% of people that listen to podcasts listen to the whole thing from start to finish. That's 45 minutes of undivided attention. Do you understand? That's gold. That's a gold mine today. So don't talk to me about social media for sure. Get that out of it. Forget about it, right? Ads. You want to talk about buying ads? Who. Who seriously watches ads? When you go on YouTube because you want to watch whatever video you want to watch, do you sit there waiting for the ad to finish or do you literally hit that. Smash that skip button as soon as the five seconds is up, right? Everyone's sitting there waiting, just like, okay, okay, okay, come on. Four, three, two, one. Boom. Get out my face. Next.

It's why I have YouTube Premium. I just pay for it to pass.

Did you just say that you pay to not see ads? You pay not to see ads and people are spending money to show people ads and people are paying not to see them. Do you see an issue with that? Now on the flip side, people are coming to listen to this podcast and they're tuning in. They are wanting to spend 45 minutes of their day or an hour of their day to invest their time in consuming this content. So Now I'm getting 45 minutes on average of their attention. And guess what? I didn't pay to be on this podcast. It didn't cost me anything. In fact, if I would have paid you, Mario, for a 30 second ad, it would have done a fraction, a fraction of a percentage of what I'm getting from actually being the provider of the content for this podcast episode.

And I actually wouldn't have even let you pay to be on because.

I've only invited the people I know are a good fit for the audience and they are going to share the value. Because the second you pay to be on, I feel like you're now quantifying it as an ROI only. And be. You go into sales mode.

Yep, yep. A hundred percent. Look at any. I mean, again, you could have. The. The smart brands are the ones that when they create an ad, they make it. They, they create it so that it looks like a great piece of content. It looks like a story. It looks like, you know, like you're watching a movie. Those are the best ads, by the way. The best ads are the ones that you don't even know it's an ad. And if you're smart and you go on podcasts as a guest, you'll do the same thing. Everyone's selling, right? We're all selling. But it's how you sell.

You don't need to be salesy. You should have a call to action. By all means, promote your stuff, right? But don't, don't, don't think of it like a billboard or something.

Exactly. And how do you sell? Naturally, number one is you become relatable to the audience. You share your personal story of how you were where they are, or you show how you were once in a position that wasn't a successful place. Right. Like I shared before, I said I was an invisible person online. I didn't even know what a podcast was, right. You get vulnerable, you share that and then you talk about your breakthrough, right? What was your aha moment? For me, it was getting on podcasts. And by the way, now you know, I'm an international best selling author. I've got all these things, yada, yada, yada, right? And that's essentially selling without selling because a person listening to this that wants to be a best selling author or wants to have a top rated podcast, or wants to interview, you know, the leading authorities in their space or wants to be working with their dream clients and living a dream life, they're going to want to get on podcasts, right? And that's, that's pretty much what I do.

And you were also saying as far as publishing a book compared to going on podcasts.

Well, look, I mean, first of all, you could do both, right? And, and I would recommend if you, if you have the opportunity to write a book, you should, you should write a book. No question about it. Because again, it just adds to your credibility, right? When, as soon as you've written a book, people take you, it's like a different, you're in it, you're in a different league. People just look at you like, oh, wow, you're an author, you've written a book, they take you seriously, they take you more seriously than they would otherwise. The other thing as well is that when you're getting on podcasts and you've got a book to promote, I mean, there is nothing that Sells more than books on podcasts. I mean, books sell like hotcakes on podcasts. It's crazy. And the reason why, by the way, is it's a very little low investment. Anyone can afford to buy a book. Right. And it also happens to be that the people who listen to podcasts also read lots of books. Right. They're the people who are investing in their self growth. Well, those are the people that go and buy books. And so I think they go hand in hand. It's a really great sort of strategy to be writing a book, promoting your book, and getting on podcasts to promote it.

You weren't joking. You really were going to tear all three of those up. But I'm appreciative of you did because like I said, I know you're a wealth of information and you're right, they are very complimentary because, you know, I have the expert authority effect publishing method to help people publish their business books. And that's what I talk about when I'm guesting on other shows and not hosting. And it's real easy to see the sales go up afterwards. And you know, I also can track, oh, my episode on someone else's show went live here. And then there's just magically more downloads for this show. Expert authority effect interviews. It's really fun to see and it's fun to add the value. So do you say, Would you say, well, for someone starting off versus someone who's more experienced, what would the goal be? Would you say, one a week is a good place to start? Or are you really saying, no matter if you're experienced or brand new, you should be starting doing five days a week?

You know, you know what the best place to start is, Mario? Just starting.

Trick question.

Just starting getting on a podcast because there's so many people who are just, oh, I don't know, they're overthinking it. Most people overthink and therefore do nothing. And so the best advice I can honestly give is just start. Just don't, don't be too calculated about it. Just get on the next podcast you can get on. And it's. I'll be honest, it's addictive. Once you start getting on podcasts and you start sharing your stories and start building your audience, it's. It's like crack cocaine. I mean, it. Not that I know what crack cocaine is like because I've never done it.

I was going to say I've never had it either myself, but.

Right. But it's, it's, it's highly Addictive, because it's.

When you start to see the results, and you start to see, oh, my goodness, this is fun. You know, most marketing isn't fun. It's annoying. You have to get on sales, you have to try to chase people and convince them, and you got to try to figure out how to, you know, beat other people to the punch and whatever it is. And you gotta. And here you're just enjoying yourself. You're literally just having fun and building your brand. I mean, it's incredible.

I think we may have came up with an ad there.

Oh, no, here we go.

If you like cocaine, try guest podcasting.

We could do some Shopify shirts or something. Teespring.

Seriously? Yeah.

So as far as having your own show, let's talk about that for a hot second, because we both do. And would you say you should do a bunch of guesting first, then start the show, or start the show and do the guesting?

Look, I mean, starting a podcast today is so easy compared to, you know, four years ago, five years ago today. You just literally, you know, with Zoom and with, you know, hosting companies like Buzzsprout, and there's so many of them, there's really no excuses anymore. You literally just, you know, for less than $100, you've got the equipment, you just need a quiet room, and boom, you have your own podcast. If you asked me, you know, which one's more effective for building your brand and building your audience, you know, to me, hands down, it would be guesting on other people's podcasts because you're essentially leveraging other people's work. Like, let's talk about right now, the situation we have right now, Mario, you're sitting in the hot seat. You're the host. You're doing all the work. Really? Okay? You've. You've had to reach out to me. You've done your research on me. You're. You're publishing this episode. You're going to have to edit the episode. You're going to have to promote it, right? You're doing all the work, the heavy lifting. I'm just coming on. I'm just basically sharing stuff I already know, right? There's no sweating on my. On my. You know, and once this is finished recording, I'm done. I can go to bed. I can go, you know, play a video game or whatever it is that I want to go and do. You've now got to go and, you know, polish it up and do all the things that you've got to do. So who's who's got an easier time right now, me or you? Right? I do. And here's the other thing. You are.

Thank you for the reminder of the other 15 steps my team and I have to do after this.

Exactly. And it's your audience, which means that you're talking to the same people that already know you. I'm talking to a whole new audience that may not know me. And so I reap all the benefits, but do none of the work. Is that fair? Not really. But hey, that's. That's the power of being a guest on podcasts. So if you're listening to this and you're still thinking, should I get on podcasts? I mean, stop thinking about it. Go do it. And especially now, because right now we are at the. We're still at the early stages of podcasting. I hear people say, oh, have I missed the boat? Not at all. Because if you think about it, 1.5 million podcasts is the total number of podcasts that are. That are out there. However, there's only around 800,000 that are active. That means that are still publishing. Now, again, you might think 800,000 sounds like a lot. It doesn't. It isn't a lot. Because think about how many YouTube channels there are. Close to 100 million. Right? So there's less than a million podcasts that are active, but there's over a hundred million YouTube channels. Do you know how many blogs there are? Close to a billion.

A lot.

Yeah. Close to a billion blogs. So when you compare the podcast space, which has less than a million active podcasts, to, you know, YouTube channels or to blogs, it. We haven't even got started. We're not even. We're not even. We're nowhere near saturation point. You're still in the early days. And here's the other thing. It doesn't cost money to be a guest on a podcast. I'm not paying to be on this podcast. Now, that's going to change. I predict that in the near future, I would say probably within a year from now, most podcasters are going to start charging their guests to be on their show. In fact, it's already happening. There are a number of podcast hosts that I know who are charging a pretty penny to be a guest on their podcast. I know because I used to get my clients on their shows. These are top rated podcasts, and today they're charging. One of them is charging $3,500 per guest. 3,500.

What would you say is the low end? Couple hundred?

Yeah. 500 $500 is what a normal rate that I'm seeing. So let's do the math for a second, Mario. That means if you want to get on just 10 podcasts, it's going to cost you $5,000. You're going to have to have at least $5,000 just to get on, you know, 10 decent podcasts. Podcasts in a year from now. But today, if you start getting on podcasts today, zero. Nothing you can get on 100 podcasts won't cost you.

Now, if you hire an agency like mine, okay, you're paying, but you're paying for the top shows. It's different. You're paying me.

You're paying for the, you're paying for the service for, for you, you and your team to take the time to do the booking and the correspondence and setting it all up.

Yeah, I mean, it's not just time, remember, it's relationships. Right? The top we, we only work at Geffen Media Group. We only work with the top 250 podcasts. Now, those podcast hosts are extremely selective on who they have on their shows, right? So they're turning down like 95% of. Of pitches. And that was the second part of my story was, was basically I started getting bombarded with emails from PR agencies and book publicists and basically people trying to get on my podcast or trying to get their clients on my podcast as guests. And I was sending, I would say, 95% of those pitches to spam because they all sucked. They just didn't know how to. They didn't know how to pitch, number one. They didn't know me. I didn't have a relationship with them and I didn't know them. And number two is they didn't know how to position their clients. They all sounded the same. They all sounded boring. Hey, I've got a great guest for you. He's got a book and he's a, you know, a coach. Oh, really? Wow, that's exciting. Tell me something that's exciting about this person. There was nothing exciting, nothing new. It was boring. And I was getting dozens of these a day. And after a couple of months, I woke up one day and I said to myself, you know what? People are paying a lot of money for these PR agencies and book publicists to basically just spam podcasters like me. Nobody's doing a good job of it. Well, I've got my own top rated podcast. I'm friends with all these other top rated hosts. So I've got the relationships I've been on over at that time, about 50, 60 podcasts. So I know what it is to be a guest and I've interviewed over 150 high profile guests at that time. So why don't I start my own podcast booking agency? And that's basically how Geffen Media Group was born.

And, and when did you start? That was it, a year later.

So Geffen Media Group was. It's been about three, just over three years. About three and a half years, I would say that we've been running.

And you know, the reason why we only work with authors now is because I realized that my clients that had books, they were the ones doing the best, they were getting the best results.

Like I said before, because books just sell like hotcakes now. It doesn't mean you have to have a book to get on podcasts. It just, it just helps.

It's better.

It's better.

So let me, let me pause you right there, because now you're exclusively working with authors, correct?

In my media agency, yes. My podbooker platform. It's open to anyone and for anyone.

That'S listening, Daniel has Geffen Media Group, where you know you have to apply and qualify, but he can get you booked on the top rated shows. And Pod Booker is the software where you can find people and connect with other show hosts. You're doing it all on your own. It's more of a do it yourself service.

Correct? Yeah. Podbooker.com is pretty much a platform. So how did I come up with the idea? What I realized this was about a year and a half ago, I realized that I was only serving a small segment of people. There was a small market of people that could afford to spend thousands of dollars to hire an agency like mine to get on the top shows. But, you know, most people can't afford to hire an agency and there are millions of people that want to get booked as a guest on podcast. So how do they get on those shows? Right? There's so many podcasts. How do you find them? How do you pitch to them? What do you do? And on the flip side, I'm only servicing, you know, the top 250 podcast hosts with guests. I'm supplying them with guests. But what about the other, you know, hundreds of thousands of podcast hosts who are looking for guests but don't have a way of finding guests because they're not big enough for the agencies to be sending them guests. So you have these two markets that are not being served the. And nobody at the time was serving them. And that's why I had the idea for podbooker.com, which essentially is a marketplace where you have two sides of the marketplace. You've got the hosts and you've got their profiles, and then you've got the guests. And basically, as a guest, you can easily find a host and pitch them and get booked on the podcast. In fact, I believe that's how we got booked. I think I got booked through podbooker with you, or maybe not actually, no, with you. I've had a relationship with you before podbooker, because I send you guests from my agency, but I've actually been booked.

On in full transparency. We did do it through POD Booker because it is awesome and we did do it that way, but, yeah, we were already talking and knew each other prior.

Right. But podbooker also just makes it easier as well, the booking process, because you don't have to. Seamless. Yeah. You don't have to go back and forth in email. It's all done through the platform. And what's really great about it as well is that I'm going to ask you for a review after this. Hopefully, Mary, you'll give me a nice review. And that review will go on my guest profile on podbooker, which means that now anytime a host looks at my podbooker profile, they'll see all of my reviews that I have from hosts, which, again, doesn't currently exist anywhere. If you go on lots of podcasts you need, you should be collecting reviews from those hosts, because the more reviews you get, the more attractive you are as a guest to get on bigger shows. And so with podbook, you know, we've. We created that feature now, so you can do that easily.

And I will say, as both a guest and a host, because I love guest podcasting on other shows myself. If someone's listening to this and you have one, let me know. But as a host, I can relate to getting so many guests just pitching and this and that, and it's like, you know, I enjoy this and I love the. I love interviewing. I love talking and building relationships and learning and bringing it out for the audience and all this stuff. And I'd like to think it comes through, but what I don't like is sifting through a hundred names and numbers to go, which of the six of these are the good ones? So when I'm. I love that you have the reviews on there. Because when I'm looking for people, I've told everyone, make it easy for me to say absolutely yes. Because the second I have to go, huh? And Think about it. I'm already going, why don't they stand out? More to your point of, okay, cool. You're an author, speaker, Coach. You've won 15 awards. Well, if you're a civilian, that's impressive. If you've got 4,000 names and numbers of other author speakers, CEOs in your phone.

It'S par for the course. It's the same reason I've said about dressing up when you're at a business event. Why do I wear the colorful ties? Why have I been doing this forever? Because when everyone else in the room is in a black and white suit, how do you stand out? If you're the only one in the room, you're going to stand out. But how do you stand out at all these different levels? So unless I can say absolutely yes without thinking about it, it's probably a no. And I should never have to look and search out social media. And the second I do that, I'm like, I will take it with a grain of salt and go, okay, maybe their PR rep didn't do a good job with the one sheet or the sizzle reel or whatever. There can be people, and I've had them on the show who are really, really good, but it's a marketing and a communication, and I have a sense for this. So I will look at the social, but very, very rarely. If you have to make the host dive in and turn this into. If I get 100 pitches a week, I'm not going to take five or 10 minutes each one, because now my job is just sifting through stuff.

Yeah.

That's all. That's a bunch of time. I can be interviewing cool people.

Yeah.

So I'm glad that you made it easy on podbooker. And for anyone listening, if you're looking to do more guest podcasting, make it Brain did simple with the coolest thing you've ever done that no one else can say, put it in a headline at the top of the one sheet. Because there's. Sometimes I look at your picture, the name, the one sheet, some accolades, and go, wow, that's a great headline. This person sounds. I can tell you know what you're doing.

Yeah. And the other thing as well is what I found again, you know, seeing hundreds and hundreds of bios. Usually bios fit into. They fall into two piles, Right. And they fail because of either one of these two piles. The first pile is too vague. So the analogy I like to give is, imagine you watch a movie trailer, Netflix trailer. So if it's too vague, you're not going to invest time in watching it because there's just too much content out there to consume. And so you're just. You're not even going to try to, like, look more into it. It's like, if you didn't get me, you didn't get me. Next. The other mistake is there's too much information. They've given away too much. Which means, like, it's as if I've watched the movie already. I don't need to watch the movie. You know, you ever see that, you see a movie trailer and you're like, well, thank you very much. That was a great movie. I'm not going to. I don't need to watch it now. Well, that's a mistake people make in the bio is they give away way too much. And then basically, I've. It's as if I've already interviewed you or there's nothing left to talk to you about. So what I do is, with my clients in the agency, is we use a lot of intrigue and curiosity. We tease the hosts, we dangle things. We go, oh, did you know this is this. And this happened. And it's like. And then. And we leave them hanging and they're like, then what? Like what? Like, what is that about? I'm so curious. I need to know what that is, right? So it's. That's, that's. That's the ideal bio, right? And the ideal movie trailer is when you're going, oh, my God, I need to know what happens. I need to know what happened. I need to watch this. So that's. That's one thing, one tip I can kind of give in terms of when you're pitching, when you're, when you're reaching out with a buyer. The other thing as well is the hosts want to know that you're going to give them something of value besides for just the content. They want to know that you're going to share the episode. They're going to want to know that you listen to their podcast. They're going to want to know that you know their audience and why it's going to be a good fit for their audience. There's too many people that are just kind of going, hey, you know, have me as a guest because I've got a book and I've got this, and it's going to help me, me, me, me, me, me, me. You got to focus on what's in it for them. Hosts want to know that you're going to provide quality content and that you're going to help them get more subscribers by sharing with your audience.

That's 100% true. And I even have a button on the form or checkbox there. I purposely added this in there. You know, what's the reason there's millions of shows? Why do you want to go on expert authority effect interviews? And it's like to. To share my expertise. And I literally worded one as to be the 101st interview and yet another batch of hundreds that I'm just doing because. And I've actually had people click, are you serious? And I'm like, you got to be kidding me.

Get out, man. That's crazy. Yeah.

Do you want to add to my audience or do you just want to be self serving? Basically, I could probably even put that on there and someone would click it.

It's crazy.

Don't be that person.

Yeah, yeah. Don't be. The guy that I had on my show once who every single question I asked him, he said, well, on page 179 of my book, I answered that question. I'm not kidding, Mario. Every question, almost every question I asked him on page 46, I address that. I talk about. For flip sake, dude, this is not one long infomercial. Who trained you? Like what? I'm not going to get that.

You got a book. Yeah, everyone's going to get it. Shut up and give us some value.

Yeah, it was crazy. And I didn't produce that episode, so the guy totally wasted his time in my time. It was horrific.

Now, would you have ever said, well, maybe I should just end it here and I'll just buy the book and read it?

Because yeah, you know what? I was tempted. I was. I just have.

So you didn't produce it? I got to. I got to be honest. I've, I've, I've. There hasn't been any so far. I felt so bad about. I just pulled them.

There were three.

Let me ask you, do you think. Do you look at it as this person's really not prepared? I should have done a better job qualifying them. Or maybe this is to, you know, sharpen my chops as to how can I get around this real time. You know what I mean? When you're in the interview, like right now, you're pretty much at the demarcation line or whatever. It's like you're past the point of no return. It's like, maybe let's just see how good I am. And this is not going to be an easy interview for me, but it will make me a better host yeah.

There was one guest that I had who was famous, and we just got off to a really bad start.

I made a comment that he didn't appreciate, and we kind of got into a bit of a. Bit of a fight, like a bit of an argument, you know, and then it just went totally downhill from there. So I didn't produce that one. That was one example.

There was another famous person I had, and I'll mention his name just because I published it, even though I was considering not to publish it. But it was Robert Kiyosaki, who is the famous author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So I interviewed him and it was a train wreck. Like, the guy totally lost it on me. Like, he went insane because I pushed some buttons. That's just my interviewing style. I like to kind of, you know, see how people react. It's just kind of like a game for me, but. And it makes for entertaining interviews, of course. But with Robert, it was like he just attacked like crazy and. And unfortunately, you know, he kind of made himself look really bad. But it was one of the best episodes for my show because of the amount of feedback that I got from my audience. It was insane. Yeah.

How did you. I gotta ask, because he's been on my dream list. I've read dozens and dozens of his books. I love Robert. How did you get him?

He's a good guy. I just think he just lost his plot on the podcast. How did I get him? I mean, it's. It's kind of the same way I got all the other guests that I've had. Some. Some very big named guests. It's a game. You know, you're playing the game and when you know how to play the game, you know how to kind of, you know, play the game, let's put it that way. So how do you play the game? Well, one way is if you can get one big guest on your show, then what you do is you then leverage that big named guest to get your next big name guest. Because usually what happens is with these sort of big name people is they're looking at, you know, instead of them looking into you, because it takes them time. They don't have time. They'll just look at who you've had on. So it's like a club. Oh, you had Russell Brunson on your show. So, like, when I got Russell Brunson, like, I got a lot of the big Internet marketing guys because they're like, oh, Russell Brunson wanted to show. Oh, you had Neil Patel, like, oh, okay, so now all the big, like, you know, SEO guys, they all know Neil Patel. So like, okay, right, so, oh, you've had this guy Tom Bilyeu and all these guys. So once you start.

Getting some big named guests, all the others kind of flock along because then you just, you just start name dropping and then they're just like, it's all one big club. It's one big game.

The other thing as well is once you produce a certain amount of episodes, you know, they take you more seriously. It's like, so like, once you could say, you know, I've had, you know, over a hundred episodes. I mean most, you know what I'm saying? Like most podcasts don't.

I do. I was going to ask you what's that number? Because.

Is it really a hundred? Is there a second number like past 300 or five or.

I mean, obviously the bigger the number, the more likely they're going to take you more seriously. But you know, as I said, like, most podcasts don't last, right? Because people don't have the patience and they don't stick around. So if you've passed like your hundred episode mark, you're in the top whatever percent it's not, there's not that many in relation to the whole podcast space that have over 100 episodes. So the longer you stick at it, the more you produce, the more likely you're going to get bigger name guests. I'll say something else. I think it's, it's more vanity than anything else because the truth of the matter is Robert Kiyosaki and all these other big name guests that I had, they didn't share the podcast, they don't share podcasts with their audience. Right. So you don't get much in the, in the way of mold subscribers. Right. And you know, yes, it looks good and it's a vanity play. Like I said, like, it's great to name drop. But the biggest, like, spikes that I got in my downloads was when I had a guest that wasn't necessarily well known, but they had a big audience sort of in their space, like for them, and they shared it. So if someone has, let's say 10,000 email subscribers and they're very loyal followers, that's 10,000 new people that you have potentially coming to listen to your podcast and subscribing and they're going to share it because they're not some big, you know, guy who, yeah, 5.8 million or 20 million exactly. They're not going to share it because they've been on so many podcasts already that they're just not going to share every single podcast they've been on. So I think you have to be a little bit smart.

With. With, you know, and strategic. Also, like I said, getting on podcasts, you're going to get a lot more subscribers than producing episodes, because every episode you produce, unless you're spending a lot of money on promoting it, how else are you finding new audiences? Right. So the only way is two ways that I could see. One is getting your guests to share. So you've got to have guests that are willing to share or be. You've got to be going on other podcasts and getting those listeners to then go and follow you to listen to your own.

I love that you're sharing the behind the scenes, because I found that too. I've had some big names on the show, and some of them have shared it, some of them have not. But the biggest ones are, like you said, they. They have, let's say, 5 to 25,000 in their audience, which is still a ton of people. I mean, they could be an author, speaker, coach, have their own mastermind, community, whatever. They're very thankful. They leave a rating and review on it and they're sharing it when it comes out. And the best thing I've had that I think is the real litmus test is three, six months later, they're still sharing it. And some have even taken our own artwork that my team and I made to promote their events in different things.

Yeah, yeah. You never know who's going to be your best ambassadors. I mean, that's the thing. It's. You really don't know. But there's. There's other advantages as well. Like, for example, when I had Les Brown on my show, he is such a humble giant. Like, he's huge. Right. Most people have heard of him. Big. You know who Les Brown is, right? Yeah.

So he's also on my list of. I'd love to have him on the show.

He was incredible. And you know what the beautiful thing about him is? He even gave me his. What? His, his, his, his. His cell phone number. And he said, daniel, you call me whenever you want. Like, you know, you. And I was like, whoa, that's huge. Right? Imagine having direct access to someone like Les Brown like that. I mean, that just doesn't happen. Right?

That's not the norm.

That's not the norm. So in a way, you know, even if Les Brown doesn't necessarily share it with his audience or add anything from that perspective, but just having the relationship with Them. And being able to network with those types of caliber of people is incredible.

I'll say the same thing for speaking to the point of guesting on other podcasts and publishing a business book. By all means, do both. But it's cool when the biggest surreal moment I had was when some of the people that I looked up to, admired and respected is like I was learning from them, they were pitching to come on, or we'd be speaking at the same event. If you're also, if you, if you're listening and you don't do speaking.

You should, because the stages and especially like you're talking about the relationships, hey, let's grab dinner with all the speakers afterwards. Or even just two or three of the speakers. It doesn't need to be a speaker quote dinner sanction, just say, hey, you want to grab some food?

Yeah.

I mean, that's magical.

Yeah. And I think people just need to get themselves out there. I mean, it's just, it's really not difficult. I think the hardest part is just getting past your own self doubt like that. At least for me. I'm just speaking about me. That's been my number one obstacle, I think, in my journey is just stop the negative thinking. Like, oh, if I post this, are people going to be, you know, they're going to think this of me, they're going to think that of me. Like, oh, I don't know if I should do this because I mean, when I first started my podcast, I listened back to it and I'm like, oh my God, I sound like a squeaky cat. Like, I, I can't produce episodes.

I really thought that.

Yes, I really did. I hated the sound of my voice. I couldn't, I really couldn't hear it. I, I had to switch it off and I thought, how am I going to produce, you know, a podcast when I hate the sound of my own voice? How am I going to get on other people's podcasts when I just really hate the sound of my own voice? But the more I pushed myself to just do it anyway, I kind of just did it anyway. I would start to listen more and more and then I was the. I got to a point where I was okay with my voice. And now, as weird as it sounds to say this, I actually like the sound of my voice. Sounds nice to me.

You know, scientifically, most people don't like how they sound.

Right.

It has something to do with the inner ear and this and that, the other thing. But I felt the same way too.

Yeah.

Especially when I Go back and edit the recordings.

Yeah.

It's like, oh my gosh, what was I talking about here? It's just like, shut up. Everyone else is giving you ratings and reviews that they love it. Yeah, stop. Stop the nonsense.

Yeah. Do you know how many times I listened to myself and I said, why do I say the words, you know, so many times, you know, why do I do that? Like, why am I doing that? And your self critic always will come out. It will always come out to just try to get you. And it's just noise. Just. Just filter it out, drown it out.

None of it really matters. One of my favorites is so now that we're talking about such and such, like I said so so many times. It was like, why am I doing this? And I remember posting early on, it was like, I posted, how do you get your guest to stop breathing? That's really funny because I was referring to the editing of the audio and it was just like, oh, that sounds really bad.

Sounds terrible. But it's a great title because, you know, people will definitely listen to that episode. How to get my guests to stop breathing.

But the point is, it doesn't need to be perfect people. What, you want it to be conversant. You want it to, you know people. When you're talking to them in real life, they're not.

Yeah. So let me tell you something interesting.

I. That might. So my first podcast was can I pick your brain? That was very sort of polished. I had like a professional mic and you know, I try to make it like soundproof and all of that stuff. All that, all the jazz. Right. But then.

Yeah, who would do that?

Yeah, who the heck. Right then I was walking in the park in the morning on a daily basis, because when I wake up in the morning, I get lots of thoughts coming. I don't know about you, but I get tons of ideas. Like, it's almost as if, like when I went to sleep, my brain went on hold. It's like when you get up and you need to pee really badly because you haven't peed for like eight hours straight. So your bladder is going, get me out of here. Right. So the same thing with your thoughts. Like, all the ideas are kind of like being held back and waiting to be expressed. And then you wake up and it's just like.

It's like, shut up. My God. You know, so what I used to do is I used to go out to the park and I would walk around the park talking to myself because I would need to express the ideas vocally. That's just the way that I express. That's the way that I'm able to sort of, you know, think about it. But I didn't want to look like a crazy, weird, you know, psychopath, so I put my headphones in, pretending that I was on a phone call. So people thought that I was just talking to people on a phone call. Well, one day I'm having this conversation with myself, and it usually. It lasts about, you know, 10 to 15 minutes every morning. And suddenly this weird thought came to my mind. You know, I should have recorded that. That was pretty good. That was an interesting conversation. Like, I had some really good insights there. But then I'm like, nah, come on. Like, I can't record a podcast while I'm walking in the park, people's dogs are barking. There's birds singing. It's. It's. It's like crap audio. Like, come on, I can't do that. But then I decided, you know what? Let me just see what happened. So the next day, I just literally hit record on my phone. No microphone, no fancy schmancy thing. There was even some guy moving, lawing them, mowing the lawn. Okay. And at the end, I played it back to my wife, and I said, honey, what do you think about this? And she listened to it. Poor woman. She's listened to so many of my blinking episodes of Poor Woman, she had to go through all that. You know, it's like, when I wrote my book, she had to read all of the drafts and all of it. Can you read this out loud? I want to hear it back. My wife's amazing, by the way. Anyway, so she. We have five kids, and she's incredible. She takes care of everyone, including I'm like, the sixth kid. Anyway, so she listens to it, and she's my number one fan, and she goes, I love it. I'm like, are you serious? She's like, I really think you should do this. You should do this podcast. And I said, but it's like you can hear the birds. And she's like, I love the fact that you hear the birds in the background. It doesn't. People don't want necessarily, like, the most polished professional that. They just want content. And you. You're giving great content. And so that became the Daniel Geffen Show. I did over 100 episodes of me talking to myself in a park with all the sound effects that go along with it. And that just goes to show that once you do something over and over again, you get to the point where you stop caring about all the, you know, questions and doubts of, you know, quality. Just, just put it out there. Just go, just do it.

Yeah. Because for the one and a half in my numbers are one and a half. For the one and a half people that are gonna say something, the ones who matter don't care and the ones who care don't matter.

Can you ever said that just define what half a person looks like to you? I'm just curious.

I don't know, but I've done this with clients, with business, with everything. I actually.

I like stats and metrics and stuff. You need to be able to measure them, especially when it comes to the profits and things. But I was thinking about it one day for a speech I was giving to an audience and I was like, what did it really take? How many people really went completely nuts where the business deal or the guest or the whatever was just worst case scenario. And I looked back, I go, man, it's that one and a half percent that stops people from even getting to the hundred.

And at the end of the day, yeah, I'll take the other 98.5, 99. You know what I mean? Like to your point of, let's do it perfect. And you know, I'd like to think I have a well produced show, but I've also calmed down a little bit with making the intricacies because it's like I, I can take the same amount of time and have another hundred great VIP guests, or I can polish this thing to a point where I could get a Grammy or an Emmy for it. Which one's more advantageous? And there's a fine balance of, from a business standpoint, I'll say do, do another hundred episodes instead of, you know, if you're going to do a 13 episode season premiere of a show, then do a show. But if you're doing a podcast, I do have to remind myself it's a podcast. There's an audio experience and a video experience. But calm down because it's better to have another hundred episodes than have 12 of them. You know, I can't even imagine thinking back going, Yeah, I got 12 really great ones and they'd be phenomenal. But guess what? Now I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them.

Yeah.

And I'll take that any day because they're all still pretty. They're up all, they're all up in the 90, 95 percentile.

Yeah, I think just the goal should just be to ship it, you know, just, just get it out as fast as you can. It doesn't matter how ugly it is at the beginning. I mean, I think if you're going to polish polish later, like first just see if there's interest, see if people want for sure what you have to share and then you can always polish and improve and perfect. But to be that just.

I love telling people to start where they're at because too many, likewise, too many people get stuck. They won't even get started because everything's not perfect. Well, you didn't even start yet. You didn't even know what you did wrong to improve on yet. Yeah, and I got to be honest, I love guesting on audio shows and I'm a little bit jealous of everyone else who does stuff not as complex as me because I tell you what, the ones I've done, it's so relaxing to just go, oh, the mic's on. And that's all I need to worry about.

Look, the first business I started, I had a competitor and I kept very close eye on him. I was always checking in and seeing what he was doing. And here's the difference between him and me. I built a six figure. My first business was a six figure a year business. His was a seven figure business. We were in the same exact market. We're doing the selling the same service, the same thing.

The difference between him and me, everything I did had to be perfected. So the website had to look, you know, beautiful. The logo had to be perfect. Every article that, you know, we wrote on the blog had to, you know, just be perfect. This guy had the crappest, ugliest website. Everything looked so crap. I mean, he wrote blog posts that he got done in India that didn't even make sense in English. But it didn't matter because his SEO was great because for every one article that I put out, he put out 10. Okay, he didn't care. He had micro sites, like, meaning he had like five or six different crappy websites, but they served different parts. I had one beautiful website that he was doing seven figures a year, I was doing six figures. And the difference between him and me, I was pretty, he was ugly, but he was making more, much more money. And I learned from that that you just got to, you just got to be scrappy. Sometimes you can always make it look good later.

You know, but the main thing is, is if, if you've got, if you've got something to share, if you can help people, then you owe it to yourself and you owe it to others to get out there and share it. You know, my, I wish my grandfather Wrote a book, you know, talking about book publishing. If you asked me, you know, who. Who do you admire the most? It's no one I've interviewed. It's my grandfather. My grandfather is the one person that I wish there was a book about him. I wish he produced a podcast. I wish he went on a podcast and spoke about his story. I wish he wrote his. His. His story in a book. He was. He's no longer with us, unfortunately, but he was in 18 concentration camps. 18 from the age of 13 years old.

For five years, he was in. In. In. In concentration camps. He was at one point shot and buried alive. The bullet hit him in the shoulder. He pretended to be dead because he knew that if he moved, they would kill him. So.

That'S one story that he shared. He didn't share many stories about his experience, but the few stories that we know, it's unbelievable. I mean, he was hung twice. So they try to hang him, and then.

He said, there's a Jewish prayer that you say, shemai Yisra', el, which a person says if they believe they're going to die. And the sirens went off, and it was a false alarm. And he was able to escape and run into the forest. And then they hunted him down with dogs. They brought him back, and they tried to hang him a second time. And for the second time, he said the prayer, and the sirens went off for the second time. And this time it was the real deal, and he was liberated.

You know, another. Another story he shared was that he was about 10ft from the gas chambers, standing in line, and a Nazi soldier was standing next to him outside the line. And the horse maid defecated on the Nazi's boot. And this Nazi soldier turned around to the person who was closest to him, which happened to be my grandfather, and he said, get out here, you dirty Jew, and clean this up. So my grandfather basically cleaned up the crap on the boot. And then the soldier said, all right, go. Basically, he let him go out of the line. And so my grandfather was saved by a horse poop, pretty much. And.

The thing that inspires me about him is that when he left, when he was liberated, his whole family was murdered. So he had no family. He had no friends. He had no connections. He had not a penny to his name. He didn't even speak the language. He had nothing. And we're not talking about someone who has bad WI fi connection or, you know, they just don't have. We're talking about someone who had literally nothing. And most people would give up their life at that point, but he didn't. He kept going and he rebuilt his life, and he built a family and built a successful business and basically spent his whole life dedicated to helping and serving people. Gave away most of his money. He became a multimillionaire, but lived in a small apartment his whole entire life and gave away most of his money to charity. And that was my.

Sounds like a great guy.

Yeah.

But he never wrote a book, and there's not one podcast that I can listen to that. That he's on. And so I challenge everyone listening to this. Don't just do it for you. Do it for your future generations, because guess what?

Yeah. Leaving a legacy.

Your grandchildren, your great grandchildren, your great, great grandchildren. They're going to want to know who you were. And imagine, now my great grandchildren can listen to podcasts that I was on, that I shared my story, that I shared what I do. You know, for the next. Who knows how many years, I'm going to keep going out and sharing and talking about my journey and, you know, for years to come. For generations to come. You're going to leave behind a legacy for your. For your future generations.

That's powerful.

You got me thinking of my dad and different people. I lost him a few years ago, and one of the main major reasons I started the show. But thank you for sharing.

Yeah. Thank you for giving me a platform to share.

I'm.

Gonna skip a couple of things. We're gonna thank our sponsor. I have one more thing I do want to do, and you. You made me change the question about five minutes ago.

So we'll come back for this imperfect action round, But I do this all the time. It's the wheel of whatever.

And.

I know exactly what I'm going to ask you.

Oh. Ended up right where it needed to. My question for you, Daniel, is if you could ask your grandpa anything, what would it be?

Oh, man.

Gosh.

Yeah. I don't. I just want. I want to do justice to it. I. It's a really. It's a really tough question. It really is, because I never. I haven't thought about it. That's another thing I love about going on podcasts, by the way. You. You get asked questions that you never would have thought of. And I've grown so much as a person just getting on podcasts, just. Just being asked questions like this. It really pushes you to discover parts of yourself that you didn't even know about. I love it.

I can relate. I've had the same thing happen to me, and it was Just like, you know, I come on all, hey. And by the end I'm like, what just happened?

Yeah. I think.

If I would ask him one question.

It would be.

How did you manage.

To love yourself and to love God.

And love people after what you went through?

Because I can't imagine, I can't even begin to imagine the pain and the suffering that he went through. And.

If I put myself in that place, even for a second.

You know, it just.

It would just give me doubt in humanity. Like, how can people, how can humans do this? How could God allow humans to do this? And how can I love myself? Because I just feel so like an animal. I'm just being treated worse than an animal and I've done nothing wrong. And so how do you.

Find love again when you've just been totally stripped of it? And I know he did because every time you would see him, he had a huge smile on his face. And he was a religious, devout Jew his whole life he prayed to God every single day.

And so my question would be how?

That's a great question.

I'm not even gonna try and answer that. I actually want to ask you how. What do you think he would say?

Oh, man, that's, gosh.

Oh man, I can't answer for him. I could only say.

I. My belief is the world was created with love.

And.

Part of that love was the ability for man to choose, to make choices.

Yeah, free will.

Free will.

So unfortunately with that, you have a double edged sword. On the one hand, it's tremendous power to do good. And on the other hand, at the same, the same, you know, the other side of the sword is that you have tremendous power to do evil.

And so if God was to remove that free will.

That would go against the world that he created, which is a world which was of love. Because love is giving.

You the right to choose. If my son does something that I don't agree with, it's not loving to remove that choice from him.

I'm not being a loving father if I remove his free will to choose. Even though it hurts like hell when he makes the wrong choices in life, it hurts like hell because I love him. But loving him is also letting go and allowing him to make the decisions that, that he thinks is the right thing at this time, even though I know it's wrong, but he has to go through it and he has to learn it. And he might be hurting other people as well. Now, if I can protect other people, say, then of course I'm going to do that. And if I could protect him from harming himself, and of course I will do that. But to a certain degree, real love is the ability to allow someone to make their own choices.

That's the best I've got right now.

Well, it's a. It's a very truthful answer and I believe it to be true, too, because if you didn't have the free will, then it's basically robots. You don't, you don't have that capacity. The only. You know, I could equate it to a leader. I don't even. It's a horrible term, a boss, because there's people who have positional leadership and you listen to them just because they're the boss, but you might not like anything they stand for. It's just that they're your boss. Then there's the other people who. You follow them whether they're your boss or not, because of what they stand for. If you're forcing to someone. If you're forcing someone to do something, it's not the same.

Yeah.

And.

You know, I. I think if you keep that love in your heart with everyone, regardless of the situations, you don't get poisoned yourself, despite how evil the world gets around you.

Yeah, exactly. I like that.

I am going to try and find a segue off of this because it got pretty deep and I enjoyed it.

You know what, I want to give you credit, though.

You know what makes a really great host, and this applies to a guest as well, what makes a great host is someone that's able to let go and be in the flow of the conversation. And even if you've got an agenda, and I know a lot of hosts, they have a certain format and they've got a certain structure and they've got certain questions they want to ask and there's a certain. But it's so important to just allow the conversation to flow and not hold on too tightly to your agenda and where you want to go.

I've, for example, I've shared that story before on a podcast. And the host, I kid you not. The next question was, so, Daniel, what book would you recommend our listeners? And it was just like, are you. Are you serious? Like that.

It, it's so. Just disingenuous. It's not natural to just go to the next question on your list. It's so unnatural. And.

If you want to, I'd say.

Hurtful too, because you're talking about something that's. For me, you know, there's times I've opened up about things and there's other Times I'm like, there's no way I'm going to answer, you know, not because I'm afraid or I feel bad, but I can just tell it's not going to be respected. And I'm like, I'm not going to waste my time.

Yeah. The reason why I don't go there, meaning I try not to take it personal or I don't feel like hurt by it, is because I understand that they're just, it's an amateur. It's amateur hosting. They just don't know how to deal with it. You are a pro, and therefore you're able to comfortably allow yourself to segue and, and go down a different rabbit hole because that's, that's the natural thing to do and the respectable thing to do. But. And this is the same thing as a guest, if you want to be a great guest, you've got to learn to go with the flow. You know, let go of your agenda, have an overview of where you'd like to go as a host, and have an overview of where you'd like to go as a guest. But let go of the journey to get there. Enjoy the journey, have an adventure. And those are the best podcasts. Those are the best episodes.

Yeah.

I'm honestly thoroughly enjoying this, and I'm not worried about the flow or skipping or adding or whatever. I just.

I realize I want to honor and respect you and your grandfather and truly learn more, but I don't want to press too hard and be like, oh, let's dive 15 levels deeper on that. Like, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So thank you for sharing and being vulnerable and sharing it with us because you could have very easily just said, you know, I'm not going to, because I know I've done it flat out.

Yeah, wife. It's a good sign again, because I wouldn't share it on, on any podcast. There are plenty of podcasts I've been on that. I actually wouldn't share that because it, like you said it, you didn't feel it was the right time. It wasn't safe. It's, it's, you know, with you, I felt like it was a natural. I feel comfortable and natural to be able to share something like that. And, and that's a, you know, again, a great, you know, sign.

That you're doing something right as a host. When you're guess, allow, appreciate that when your guests are able to get vulnerable, that is the best. It's, it's. That is honestly the best sign.

Well, I definitely don't Take it lightly. And I do appreciate you for sharing because I'm glad you are doing different, different guesting and your kids and grandkids will be able to. Because I've had the exact same thought. There's people. I'm like, let's publish a book for you. Because it's like, I don't even care if you use it for business or not. Your story just needs to be told.

Yeah. And the problem is most people don't think that their story matters enough to be told. And I think that that's also a lie that we tell ourselves.

While we're.

On the vulnerable, transparent. I don't bring this up on every episode, but the whole reason I started the show, God gave me the vision for it. And it's to exponentially elevate the identity of humanity. There's too many people that are just believing all this crap that's out there. They don't feel they don't have a platform. They don't feel they're worth anything. They don't feel they have a message. And it's the far, farthest thing from the truth.

If we knew.

What our words can do for another human being.

We would. We would just. It.

I give you a real life example. I remember about two years ago, I got an email, a random email from someone who listened to my podcast. And I had tears rolling down my face when I read this email. He said that he was considering taking his life that week. He was literally preparing to take his own life. And he stumbled upon my. One of my episodes and listened to that episode, and he said that it inspired him so much that he's going to turn his life around. And he ended up writing a book and starting his own podcast. I mean.

Can you imagine if I. If I didn't produce that, that episode? Like, that's crazy that we have that power. We have that.

And especially the reasoning of, well, I don't have the right mic, I'll just do it in a few weeks.

Yeah, that's. That's the kind of responsibility that we have. In a way, it's a duty. If you have something that you can share that's going to help somebody out and you don't share it, then.

It'S almost like an injustice. It's irresponsible. It's irresponsible not to.

Human beings need you. And when I say you, I'm talking to you as an individual person listening to this. That's questioning yourself. There are people out there that need you.

And why you? Because you you are the person that they're going to relate to. Why does the world need another book or why does the world need another this because somebody out there relates to you personally. There's something about your style, the way you talk, who you are, your background, your experiences, specifically you. You. They're going to connect and you can help those people.

In only a way that you can.

Right.

Wow.

Well, thank you for the insight on that and sharing everything you have. We're going to thank the sponsor and come back with the imperfect action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why you should Visit free businessbook publishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having an idea and a possibility to actually.

Getting my book published.

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Or Mary Alice, what he got done.

For me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable. John Cody. I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful.

In getting me where I needed to go with promoting my books roast. There's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past, it didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process. Adele, if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner.

I can't make a higher recommendation than.

To work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started now and I look forward to hearing your transformation as the next video success story. Once again, that's freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Daniel, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Oh yeah, baby.

Three rapid fire questions and answers. The first one is what is the fastest path to the profits?

The fastest past the path to the profits. Interesting. I mean this is going to be an obvious one. Get booked as a guest on podcast like now. Okay.

Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making? And the fastest way for them to fix.

Getting too bogged down by the details. And the best way to fix it is just to take action, imperfect action. And the more imperfect action you take, the more you're going to learn to refine what you do.

Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Invest in yourself. Because when you invest in yourself and you become better at what you do, then you're going to be more valuable to your clients.

Very good. What are a couple one through six books that you'd recommend to Expert Authority World?

Oh, gosh. Okay. Napoleon Hill has to be up there, right? Think and grow rich. Big fan of that book. You can't read it enough. A New Earth is another one by Eckhart Tolle. Life changing. Grab it, don't think about it, just get it.

And then there's an unknown book. I don't think most people have heard of this. It's called Awareness.

What's the name? Anthony DeMello. His name's Anthony DeMello. He was a Baptist priest, I believe, or some sort of. Oh, no, Jesuit priest. Jesuit priest. Unbelievable. Incredible. Just incredible. In general, I recommend books that were written like more than 100 years ago because the last hundred years, it's just crap. Sorry, that's just. You just.

No, I agree. I've said that. I've said the same thing for ages. It's like, find ones from the turn of the century because, you know, when it's all, how did people do what they did 100 years ago without all the advantages, without the Internet, without all the communication? If you pulled it off around then.

Yeah. Then you know what you're doing. Yeah. It was also much harder to write a book back then. Today, you know, you can write a book in three days. You know, I mean, it's not. But the substance could be three days worth. So. Whereas back then, like, they really poured their whole life experience and research into it. I mean, you're just better off. It's like music. You want good music. Listen to music from 50 years ago, 100 years, you know, whenever.

If you want good music.

I definitely get what you're saying.

Yeah.

Well, those are great recommendations. I appreciate you for those. Want to ask where would you like people to learn more?

Well, I would highly recommend people to sign up to podbooker.com it's free to join. You can. If you've got your own podcast, you could set up your own podcast profile. It will take you literally a minute to set that up. And if you want to get booked on podcasts, then set up your guest profile. It's free to set it up. It will probably take you three minutes. So if you've got three minutes of your life that you want to invest in your future, then I highly Recommend going to podbroker.com and signing up and setting up your profiles.

Excellent. Well, I'll make sure there's links in the on your show notes page on eainterviews.com as well for all of those. Daniel, thank you again so much. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me on.

All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless. You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate and qualify leads while increasing profit for you 24? 7? And if so, how well are you promoting it? With the Expert Authority Effect publishing method, it's easier and faster than ever. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started. Now. Once again, that's freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.Com hey, thanks for listening to today's episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven't done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show and also be sure to check out eainterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you tomorrow.