0275: Talent Transformation: Develop Today's Team for Tomorrow's World of Work with Eric Shepard

This is Eric shepherd and you can find us on the web@www.talentstransformation.com. and you're listening to EA interviews.

EA interviews, episode 275, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week, join Mario Ficcini for today's Expert Authority Effect interview. Are you concerned about the future? Are you wondering where you should be putting your team? What should be going on now that you know pandemics are going on? And what happens after everything is all said and done? Where do we go five years from now, ten years from now? I have thought about these myself and that is why I'm excited to have Eric Shepard on the show today. And we're going to be talking about what to do in a post pandemic world and how it's transforming industries. I'm going to bring them up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. Visit freebusinessbook publishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating a business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's free businessbook publishingcourse.com Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Eric Shepard. Eric, how are you feeling today?

Very well, thank you, Mario. Great to be here.

I am excited for you to share because it's been one heck of a year, hasn't it, Ben?

It has, yeah. Right.

Where do you think we're going to be in 5 or 10 years post pandemic?

Well, I think if we think back pre pandemic, we never thought we'd be doing video zoom calls as our norm. As we went into the pandemic, people started doing more audio conferences because they couldn't get into the office. Then they realized the value of video conferences and now so many people are just becoming experienced with that. So this acceleration that the pandemic has brought on the use of technology, on how comfortable people are with technology is only going to accelerate post pandemic. And as we've seen job roles change.

Before during the pandemic, we're going to see that happen afterwards. We know that the apps have all been accelerating like DoorDash or Uber Eats, all of these delivery services. There's been a lot more acceptance of online shopping on a regular basis, grocery shopping, food orders, less going out to restaurants. So there's going to be some questions about how our behaviors return. Do they return to normal or do we just become more comfortable staying at home and just ordering deliveries? But that's just a small section of what's Changing. If we look at all of the money that's going into home delivery services, it doesn't take much to imagine how robotic delivery or drone delivery is really going to make sense. We could start to imagine the Amazon truck just driving down the street slowly with drones popping in the back of the truck, picking up packages and dropping them on our doorstep. These are now within our grasp. Where one year ago we would have said, what's the point in that? We only get the once a week. But now with the number of packages being delivered from all these different vendors, we're going to see that kind of change. That's just one example, Mario. There's many more.

Now, do you think that people decided, I want to start doing this stuff, or do you think a lot of people were already doing it and they're just doing more of it?

I think a lot of people were doing it, and now everyone is comfortable in doing it. I also think that technology has accelerated. So it's been. The building blocks have been gradually building to enable artificial intelligence. So having devices that we could say, Siri, this question, or Alexa, answer this question. We're becoming so much more familiar with those.

You said it kind of loud there. You might be activating her.

I used to have an Alexa in my office here, and I had to take her out because she did get triggered a bit too often. And I deliberately didn't say the word hey before the word Siri, otherwise she would.

So we've got this.

You know, it's funny. It's funny to joke about, but, like, you're saying, there's so much.

I've actually have it. Had it happen many times on the show before, where we're just talking, I'm not even thinking twice. And it's like.

But it's interesting with all the artificial technology, like, you're saying, you know, you got Siri, you got Google, you got her. Um, and, you know, I know Samsung's trying to push Bixby and all kinds of other stuff out there. Where do you see this going five years from now, now that people are more comfortable out of necessity? You know, I'd like to think I'm an early adopter. And some of this stuff I've been pushing for eight, 10 years ago, you know, like, we were talking about Zoom. It's nothing new. But now all of a sudden, everyone's like, oh, do you want to do a zoom call? I'm like, no. I mean, if there's no reason we need to be on camera, why don't we just Jump on the phone. I loved taking phone calls because they were so flexible. You don't need to set everything up. It's like, hey, let's just chat. But now people think it's like, you have to and you don't. So how do you see this changing the next 3, 5, 10 years? Especially in a corporate environment where you have teams of people and leadership going, maybe we don't need to all return back to the office.

Well, you're touching on quite a few subjects there, Mario. So one, I think we could look at what Clubhouse is doing in audio conferencing and dropping into rooms. When I look at virtual conferences, they're trying to simulate a real conference. And that doesn't generally work for me, but Clubhouse really does work for me. You can find the interest. You can have an audio conversation. People don't have to worry about their hair and makeup. They just jump in and they can have intelligent conversations. But if we think of the other platforms, like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, they're wider or narrower. They're focused either on snippets of videos or longer videos. So I think we're going to find platforms will tend to focus on a medium, audio, video, visual, whatever, and they'll focus on a certain kind of content, whether it's kind of a snappy kind of content just to get the point, or whether it's getting into a deeper debate like Clubhouse might do. I think the other thing is we're going to ask our devices more intelligent questions.

So, for instance, we might ask the question.

What should I be learning to improve my earning capacity? Or what job could I change to double my income? Something like that. Or what should I be doing.

To achieve those kind of levels of questions? These devices and the data in the cloud is going to have to be linked so that we don't have to go and update a dozen profiles on our personal information. We can just store our personal information in one place and choose who to share that with. Maybe we don't share everything with everyone, we just share with what who we want to. And we can start taking kind of maybe assessments about personality. So it says when I go into Clubhouse, it says, well, bearing in mind you are this kind of person, Eric, you might find this kind of conversation more interesting than that conversation. So we'll be geared towards the experiences that we'll enjoy, even the jobs that we'll enjoy, the entertainment experiences that we'll enjoy based on our devices knowing about us and giving us the choice whether.

To share it or not.

How do you think it's making the team and the employees feel.

Well, it's.

Really up to leadership to set the culture of an organization.

And so some might operate in a command and control way because they have to. We don't want to go to a fast food hamburger place and get an unexpected hamburger. We have an expectation of what we're going to get. So those kind of organizations, there'll be command and control, but other organizations, they'll want to bring about creativity and say, how do we provide autonomy to attract the kind of workers that we need to be creative, collaborative, et cetera. So with every great technology, there's going to be benefits and there's going to be hazards. And so with any weapon, you can use it for good or for evil. And we will see that. The same with technology, we're seeing facial recognition used in great ways, but also.

In very bad ways.

We could apply natural language processing to understand emails that are being exchanged by employees. We could take do sentiment analysis to determine whether they're happy or sad. And we could have our computers intervene. Some leaders might choose that that's a good idea. Other leaders might say, you know what, we should just communicate with our people more often and check in with them and make sure they're okay. We shouldn't have the machines be kind of monitoring them inappropriately. So we're going to see these organizations kind of split up into those that will run command control and monitoring their.

People and others that will be more.

Open, which will, in my belief, provide more creativity within the organization.

You know, and it's interesting you talk about that because I wanted to ask you about the whole privacy issue and you kind of alluded to, I would guess you're in the second camp of the creative and don't monitor the emails as much. But, you know, the whole privacy issue. Should people be able to monitor your emails and pull out keywords? And I think it's interesting to analyze, is the person happy? Because obviously you want them to be. But if you never communicate that often, you may never know. But the thought that went through my mind when you were saying that was also, I'm a very happy person. But there's some times I'm just, let's get this. I'm not using the language I would be right now or in an actual conversation or actually how I'm feeling. It's just, I got to get this done. I've got, you know, multiple emails in my box. I'm short for time. I got to film the show, and I don't really check it before I film the show, to be honest. And it's also why I do all do everything the way I do because I like to keep the energy high. But my point is you might not be responding. So if you see 10 of the emails that are just strictly focus zone for me, they're not going to sound like me necessarily. So how do you combat that to get an accurate reading? And the second part was, which one do you believe is really the answer? The command of the control or the. What's the name of the other one? I'm not sure if you named it.

I don't think I name it, no. But it's probably enhancing collaboration or having a more complex management structure.

So just when we are interacting with our friends, we know that they have good days and bad days and we don't make judgments about them saying they're having a bad day. So for they're a bad friend and we're going to disconnect from that friend. That's the same with employees. You know, we're human. I think the Europeans have a good rule within the European charter and I'm just characterizing it, but it's that machine should be the slave of man and not the other way around. So we have to recognize these are just tools that we can use. And doing sentiment analysis is not a bad thing as long as it's used for good and we don't make inappropriate judgments about people. We use it as a intervention method to actually enhance our relationships with people.

Which is the better? It will depend on the organization. There'll be some organizations that need to be super creative and there'll be others that need to be super dictatorial. I think over time there will be less organizations that are command control because those kind of jobs will be taken over by machines. So I use the Hamburg metaphor. We're seeing automated restaurants that come along and they can make exactly the same thing again and again. Again you pour in raw materials at one side, it goes through a machine and it turns out beautiful meals on the other side. So that's one of the risks that we have in society is that a lot of those repetitive jobs, once we can automate them, we won't need people to do them anymore. So we'll still have chefs, but we won't have so many short order chefs because one would imagine that machines could take over some of those, some of those roles and responsibilities. So I don't think there's a right thing or a wrong thing, Mario. But I do think we're Evolving to a place where a lot of the repetitive work is going to be done by machines.

Now, I just got a message here on the phone line and someone's wanting to know. I'm totally joking. That'd be cool though, wouldn't it?

But I know someone.

I know someone is thinking.

What if all the machines are taking over all the jobs? And you alluded to it a little bit just a few seconds ago, but what do you think is the breaking point? That machines will take over 100% of the jobs? Do you think it'll be 95%? 90%? 60, 40? To what extent do we go, okay, machines can do a lot of things because we've had the assembly line over 100% years. We've had a lot of automation and it's only getting more. But where's the point where you go, no?

So that's a decision that I think we as people and governments have to make because theoretically they could eventually take over everything. But there is a time where we say, well, wait a minute, we actually want to be running our own lives and we want to be enjoying our own lives. But to give you an indication, by 2030, and I'm not going to get this exactly right, mary, but roughly 45% of tasks are going to be replaced by automation. So that's not saying 45% of jobs, but it's the 45% of tasks that people do are going to be replaced by automation. So that's by. That's within nine or ten years.

So I think that's a great observation because not necessarily the jobs may get replaced, but I think when people realize the nature of business is to be more efficient, to have a better service, to help more people.

They might be able to wrap their heads around the whole. Instead of just my job's getting replaced, it's like this one is, but something new will emerge from it. You know, when I'm thinking of it to the point of the burgers, when you were the whole McDonald's should get 15 an hour thing. And then they, they mandated the raise or whatever the heck happened. And then within a short period of time, they were all replaced, the cashiers were all replaced with machines. It's like I believe.

People should be created because that creative. Because that's, I mean, we are created.

But people are creative beings. And those monotonous jobs like the assembly line 100 years ago or even present day, you know, no one wants to look at the truth, but the reality is, you know, all one of the main phone mag Manufacturers, and I'll say it's not Samsung, they're under a lot of scrutiny for the people in the factories jumping out the windows because they hate what they're doing and it's so dictatorial. Well, I get that it's an assembly line process, but maybe you should be in a job that's more creative and everything, because at some point, and you alluded to it and I was like, oh, man, I wonder if I should still ask it. You said the chef, you can get assembly line food. But you know what? I like to go out and make it an event and an experience and actually have someone handcraft it. And I can think of pretty much every industry where something can be handcrafted, even if it is a high, like a car. The coolest cars in the world are not usually built on an assembly line, you know, and that. And I don't mean mass production like a Rolls Royce that are all hand built, which they are. But think of the 1, 2, 5, 10 cars that they've only made a couple or maybe two of them, and they're all built by hand. It's like those are the masterpieces. That's where the art comes into this. As much as I love automation and the whole show is set up to run smoothly, and I'm thankful for that, but where do you see the artistic jobs and the creativity going the next 5, 10 years as more gets automated?

Well, I think as automation comes in, we're going to have the ability to be more human. And part of human is being creative and it's communicating with other humans. And it's not following a script in a call center. It's actually caring and having empathy for our colleagues, for people we work with.

To your point about chefs, I'm lucky enough to live in Miami, and I have a number of good friends that are chefs, and I see the skill and creativity that they use. I'm lucky enough they come around to my house sometimes and cook me and my friend's meals, which is a great benefit of the pandemic for me. I'm extremely lucky. And I watch the creativity and I think this can't be done by a machine. I mean, it would be extremely difficult. And anyway, I prefer it to be done by a person, just as I prefer to communicate with someone in a retail store as human to human. I don't want someone to just read me a script. I enjoy going to a restaurant where a waiter will describe to me the preparation of the food that's part of the experience. I think before the pandemic. And I think it's going to return. After the pandemic, we were moving into what I would call an experience age. We're worried about employee experience in customer experience. And so yes, there was a time when it was efficiency, efficiency, efficiency. I'm hoping that we can move to a place and say, you know what, the automation will handle efficiency. Let's be more human and have more engagement as customers, as employees, as contributors to an organization.

I hope that's the case too because, you know, one of the industries I keep looking at is the airlines. When the I wasn't around when the original planes were like, oh, it was like a big to do to go on a plane and they oh well we'll be right back with your filet and silverware. And they brought out the platters. And I just look at that. I'm like, this is like, I'm trying to wrap my head around that more than if you were to say we're gonna jump on a spaceship and circle the earth or something like that. I mean that's cool and I definitely want to do it. But it's like I believe that more than you're telling me. The airlines treated people like this.

Well, I was lucky enough to enjoy that era briefly.

And.

I think it's far cooler to circle the earth or even go to the moon. I think often we think that we're at the end of our technology era, but we're really at the beginning. What we've seen happening in the last 10, 20, 30 years, if you kind of flip that and imagine what will happen in the future. So just as airlines had all that luxury 30 years ago, spacecraft will happen and we will be able to buy a ticket at a reasonable price. And there's so many those kind of experiences. I'm certainly convinced they're going to happen.

And I think if we look to.

100 years, there will be people of space nomads. I don't believe that colonizing Mars really brings us.

Do you think we'll. Oh, I was just going to say do you think we'll colonize Mars?

I think the only thing that would.

Drive us to colonize Mars or go to the moon is minerals or things that we're running out of.

It doesn't seem like a very hospitable place. It might be a tourism thing, but to go there for take nine months to get there and nine months to get back with all the risks associated with that, it feels like in the beginning they'll just sell one way tickets And I'd really want a two way ticket before I bought one.

Nine months, I think it's something like that. That's a long flight.

It is a long flight.

I mean I think five or six hours is borderlining long.

I think it's three days to the moon currently. That's why I think the moon feels kind of practical. You can take a week off work and go to the moon, spend a couple of days there and come home.

Wow, that's. It's interesting to talk about because you know, these are not that far fetched realities. Now they better have some good food and plush seats on that shit ship. I'm just saying I don't want to have some peanuts thrown at me or whatever, especially for a nine month journey.

But worrying weightlessness as well. So if you have silverware, you might end up getting stabbed.

Yeah, and I know the whole muscle fatigue, but I think a lot of people been moving around less this past year anyway, so hey, we survived that, right?

Yeah, that's right.

So I want to ask you about the fourth Industrial revolution. Do you think we're in the middle of one, we're starting one, or will there even be one?

So we are starting one.

This concept for the fourth Industrial revolution was brought about by the chairman of the World Economic Forum and he wrote a book about it. And I think it was about four years ago. To put it in context, we can think about the other revolutions, industrial revolutions. So the first one was when we worked out how to make machines. So we hammered metal, we harnessed coal and steam so that we could drive machines. So we produced machines. That was the first industrial revolution. Let's make clothing more easily. The second industrial revolution was about standardization the production lines. So we could manufacture screws independently of producing a car. We could manufacture tires independently of producing a car. So then that enabled the production line capability, which was the second. And then the third was kind of computer computerization, which a lot of it in the past has just been storing data, retrieving data. So we trust now that we can store data, whether it be photographs, videos, payroll information, human capital management system. So we can store all that and we can retrieve it and we can slice and dice reports and make some decisions on that. The fourth Industrial revolution is kind of the next stage which is using artificial intelligence. So it's kind of like us, but it can look at patterns of data with much more granularity and much more capacity than we can as humans. So the increase in computing power, use of artificial intelligence. Now this isn't Just to be used for voice recognition as we ask Siri or Alexa to do something. But it's also useful in things like flight control systems. If we imagine that drone flying to and from the Amazon truck, the drone has to be to a certain extent autonomous to say, oh, this gust of wind took me over here and this downdraft took me there. So I'm going to autonomously control myself or lots of other kind of examples like that. So as we increase computing power, we increase this artificial intelligence, machine learning, we're going to have devices that, and sensors that can sense more things, give us feedback, and it will relieve us of mundane tasks like getting out of a truck, walking to someone's house and walking back to that truck.

So this.

Or driving.

Or driving. Yeah, exactly. Autonomous vehicles.

You got me thinking about the freeways now that they've mapped a lot of them with lidar. You know, the autonomous driving.

Yes, yes.

That's a lot of data. That's a whole lot of data to.

Process.

I think in automated vehicles we're probably going to go through a period where we get frustrated by automated vehicles. So those of us that are still driving and we're enjoying driving, we're going to get frustrated by these over cautious autonomous vehicles. And so people will tend to cut them off or, and so they'll be safer, but they'll be kind of frustrating to be on the roads.

You really think so? You think they're going to be like the student drivers of the road?

I think so, yeah. Especially in cities. I think on the freeway it's going to be easy. It's a, you know, follow the white line and it won't be too difficult. But when you get into a city, it's more difficult to spot the, the children running into the street by accident or someone leaving a black garbage can in the side of the road at night. So.

I was recently in a autonomous vehicle in Las Vegas and they had put some cones out to signify that there was some dent in the road. And the car just became confused. He didn't know what to do. And what was happening is other cars were kind of cutting us off because they were frustrated that. So the, in this one it had a driver who could take over and then be a little bolder in pulling out into the traffic to get around these cones.

Okay.

Yeah, I think I'm personally looking forward to it in the long distance halls on the freeway. I don't like city driving really to begin with because it's so erratic. So any chance I can find a Straightaway or a freeway, I'm taking it. But to not have to drive four hours straight to destination, I mean, anything over two or three, I'm probably jumping on a plane anyway. But just for a long, longer distance, I think it'll be great because, you know, maybe you and I could be on the phone. I could be doing something more productive.

Than just I completely.

Maybe just relaxing, just.

Yeah, I completely agree. I mean long distance driving is for automation. And then of course we get into automated trucks then. So that would be a natural for us to automate trucks. But you know, there's about 2 million people involved in the trucking industry, so it would have a massive impact on employment. Should we automate all trucks? That's probably, you know, we're looking for that to be happening in probably 10 years. So now we get to the challenge of how can we upskill people and reskill people because we don't want to put them out of work and have them not being able to make a contribution to the world. I mean, they're going to be frustrated and irritated.

Yeah. And I think there's going to be a lot with just with trucks, with how big and heavy and the shipments and stuff, it's like I don't want anyone to get hurt in a sedan or normal vehicle. But when you have a million dollar, two million dollar payload, there's the logistics and also the safety issues. I mean like you're saying about those cones, if, if the computer can't interpret four orange cones on level ground, let alone throwing ice, snow, a pothole, something into the mix.

Yep.

You know, maybe you start off with a pillow shipment or something. I don't know. It's interesting to think about.

Well, I love this is gonna be done.

I mean, if you're transporting oil, I mean, you could argue the machine can be more awake and alert longer than a person can. But someone who's done something for 40 years, I still probably bet on them.

So at least for now, the challenge, I think is when automation starts looking after some of the mundane tasks like keep lane control.

The drivers start switching off, they go, oh, I don't really have to pay attention. So now the risk of them falling asleep or not being engaged becomes higher. And we've seen that with Tesla drivers and other drivers of automated vehicles is that they just nod off because they don't have any activity to do to control the vehicle. So I think we've got to get to a point it's one or the other and the driver needs to know you are really in control of this or. No, we're going to trust automation because in this case automation is probably going to be safe. Interesting transition.

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm glad we're doing it and I think it has its place because I'll never forget I had my driver pick me up. I was going to go speak in California and to go to the airport and everything. And on the way back I took a couple of detours tours and he was like, you should just have me drive you every day. Because. Because I was in the back making phone calls, doing stuff. And then one of the rides I just relaxed and I was way more productive than just like sitting around going, oh, a car cut me off. This is nice. And you know what I mean? It's. It's very interesting to think about. So I'm excited for it. I appreciate you sharing this. We have. I have one more question for you before, before we thank our sponsor and it's the Wheel of Whatever.

You get to pick yellow or black. Each one has a different question. Can't you see them all right there?

Okay, yellow.

Do I have one yellow okay? Yeah, yellow's fine. Okay, so it's 50, 50 shot.

We're going to automate this in future.

I actually, you know, I've thought about doing I. That's been a work in progress the last few hundred episodes. But I probably could get a trigger to spin it or something. I do plan on getting a stand for it.

My question for you is the stuff from the Jetsons. We've got the watches, we've got the talking through intercom stuff. What about the flying cars.

One are those coming out?

I'm not a great believer in flying.

Cars, but I'm not an expert on this. The reason I don't think flying cars are so practical, it just feels like it needs more energy to lift something off the ground and move it. And there's better ways, but once it's.

Off the ground you can go way faster and there's no one in your way.

Ah, well, what you could do is put tunnels under the ground with no. And with a safer controlled environment such as the boring, ah, the vacuum.

Vacuum tubes.

So. Or overhead where. So the idea of having.

Autonomous vehicles that just turn up and will shoot you into a tunnel, take you to. From Miami to Orlando and you get out at the other end feels like a more practical way to go just from an energy consumption standpoint.

Well, I appreciate your honesty and that was on my mind with everything we're talking about. So thank you for that, we're gonna thank our sponsor and come back for the imperfect action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why you should visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what? Don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having an idea and a possibility to actually.

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John Cody I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful in getting me where I.

Needed to go with promoting my books. Rocio there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process.

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To work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started now. And I look forward to hearing your transformation as the next video success story. Once again, that's freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Eric, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Yes.

Excellent. I got three questions for you. 60 second or less answers. The first one is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Was I meant to have read a book or something before I answered this question? I think the fastest path to oh no.

What do you think is the fastest way for a company to make more money?

Understand your customer. Talk to your customer. Understand their problem. Make sure you match your solution with their problem.

Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem your prospects are making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

The biggest challenge that I see for my prospects, but also members of the Talent Transformation Guild, is how do people remain agile, remain relevant as the future of work is changing, as learning is changing, as leadership is changing. So keeping up, staying relevant is the biggest challenge.

Yes. Relevancy. Huge. Thank you for that. The third one is what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Provide value. And it kind of goes back to understanding your customer, constantly seeking to understand the problems that they're tackling not only now, but what they expect to be tackling and keeping your business aligned to solve their problems.

Very good. What books would you recommend to Expert Authority World?

I have a list on our website. There's so many books that I've thoroughly enjoyed and so I would obviously recommend the book I've recently published called Talent Transformation which deals with the issues of the fourth Industrial Revolution and how you can use mindset and skillset to have a successful outcome. And then how can you assess individuals, teams and organizations and correlate that together? There are so many other books. One of the books, just picking one, moving from good to great. It's an old favorite. It's probably 15 years old now. There's another one that I thoroughly enjoyed recently reading called AI Super AI Superpowers, which is how the Chinese are progressing with their AI systems.

Excellent. Thank you. For those where would you like people to learn more?

I would love them to learn more by going to the website www.talenttransformation.com and there there are a lot of free resources and also more information about book.

Excellent. Well, I've thoroughly enjoyed this. I appreciate your time and expertise. It was a pleasure having you.

Thank you so much Marin. It was a pleasure.

All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless.

You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate and qualify leads while increasing profit for you 247 and if so, how well are you promoting it? With the Expert Authority Effect publishing method, it's easier and faster than ever. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.com to get started. Now once again, that's freebusinessbookpublishingcourse.Com hey, thanks for listening to today's episode Episode. I hope you got a lot out of it. I know I sure did. If you haven't done so already, I invite you to subscribe to the show and also be sure to check out eainterviews.com for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day. And I'll see you tomorrow.