0292 | Copywriting Basics: The Basics of Making Copy or Ads That Convert, and Building your Business to where you want it to be with CEO Michael Giannulis

Hi, this is Mike Giannulis with copywriterbrain.com and you're listening to EA Interviews, EA.

Interviews, episode 292, inspiration, transformation, success stories.

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Have you ever wanted to scale your business? Have you ever wanted to bring in more leads, more clients and grow it? Have you ever wanted to reach a personal goal? Maybe it's fly an airplane, maybe it's build a car, maybe it's lose some weight. I am super excited to have Michael Giannulis on the show because you may have seen him on ABC's Total Makeover and maybe you've seen them talking about how to write better headlines for your company. I'm gonna bring them up right after we thank our sponsor. So you've got your book mostly written, but now what? Visit getmybusinessbookpublished.com today to Lear how you can publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's getmybusinessbookpublished.com There he is. Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Giannulis. Michael, how are you feeling today?

Hey, I'm feeling great. I'm excited to be here and get to share some tips and advice for everyone.

Well, it's a pleasure having you because I know you're a serial entrepreneur, super successful, many times over. I know you've been on TV and, and you have a skill set that is very rare.

I would say, not only nowadays, but for a long time, which is copywriting. It's so vital to businesses, but so few people know how to do it. Well, so how, how has copywriting helped you grow your businesses?

Yeah, you know, it's, it's a funny thing because copy and copywriting is basically, you know, how we write ads. And that is such a major part of success of pretty much any company. And it's almost like a forgotten skill or an unseen thing. You don't even, when copy's good, you don't even see it. It's just there. And for, for me, it's meant everything. I was able to start my first job, kind of like my first real job when I was 24 and it was writing copy. I didn't even know that was a job. I didn't even know what that was. I just, I found out that you get paid to write ads. And I, and I got into that and I was able to develop my skill set and build that into the point where I had people coming to me who were experts in different industries who said, you know, I'm, I'm so talented in xyz, but no one will pay me. I don't know how to get them to, you know, to sign me up or for them to actually, you know, to take my services. And so I was able to start to partner with people and my job would be to write the ads. And that was a big thing for me. That's how I went from sort of.

Like, you know, making not that much.

To actually eventually growing seven and eight figure companies. Even though I wasn't ever the expert, I was behind the scenes doing all the ads and the marketing and all that.

What, what made you want to get into copywriting? Is it something you've always had interest in? Did you just realize you were good at it or was it more? You saw how powerful it was and then it became interesting?

Yeah, it was, it was a few of those things. So I got my start, as I said, you know, doing that as a job. But before that I loved to write. So that was something that in school I was always very strong in. I always scored in the top percentiles in that area. And I always thought I would do something like a journalist or writing fiction or screenplays. And you start to realize as you get older, those aren't that easy to break into. You got to kind of be at the right place. And especially back then, you had to meet the right people. And so for me, I actually started a blog way back in 2006, and the blog is still here to this day. It's OnlyOneMike.com and I started that and I had a person who went to my old church and she read a post on there. She emailed me and she was like, I read this post you wrote and I think you would be a really good copywriter. And I was like, thank you so much. What is that? I didn't even know what that was. And she explained it. And then at that point she said, hey, if you would like to try it out, I would kind of try you out on a trial and you could come work for me. And I was like, sure. I didn't have much at that time going on. And so I went in and I started to learn about it. And yeah, I just dove in like face first into all. It was incredible. She had an entire library of books and courses and back then CDs and DVDs and all this. And I just went through, through it all and I was, it was, it Was cool because you start to see that there are these formulas, there are these templates, there are these kind of structures that can get people from being annoyed that you. That they're even seeing you to. To building up the desire to want to bust out their credit card and pay you, you know, and that's like, what an incredible journey. It's one thing we could. I feel like we could all make someone cry, tell a sad story about a dog. Half the people start to cry about it, right? But how hard is it to take someone who doesn't trust you, who thinks you're some Internet scam because you're. They saw you on, you know, Facebook, and then actually get them to actually want to pay you and bust out their credit card, type it in. That's a massive.

Mental shift. And so for me, I love challenges, and I thought that was a cool challenge to go after. And that's kind of where it all started for me. And yeah, that's kind of. Then I got better at it, and then it became like, you know, just kind of a fun thing. And like you said, a very, very valuable skill. It's like being a salesperson, but instead of having to go talk one on one, you can write one piece and send it to thousands or even millions. Right? And that's. That for me, is I don't like doing sales. I don't like being on the phone. I don't like even doing these kind of things are not. Are kind of outside of my everyday comfort zone. So copywriting sort of checked everything for me. And that's kind of. That's kind of why I got into it.

Well, I'm glad you realized your zone of genius, and I appreciate you for sharing this on. Not just for sharing it, but sharing it in this format because you just alluded to this isn't your favorite thing to do. So let me ask you, why do you do it? Still.

The coming out on things like this, mainly for a few reasons. One.

I enjoy getting to share. I enjoy getting to teach. I do view myself as a teacher. I used to be terrified, terrified of public speaking. It was like the biggest fear of my life. I recall being a kid and I had to go perform in some, like, school skit, and I just was like, throwing up, terrified to go out there. And so even as I got older, I think that fear was still there in my head. But when I was around 25 or 26, I got asked to go speak at an event to teach some of this stuff.

And.

And I got up there and Right before I went up, I was feeling that sort of like, throat gaggy, like, terrifying feeling. And then I thought to myself, you know what? I'm here to teach. These people paid because they want to learn from me. I'm not better than them. I just know something that they don't know, and they're here to learn. They want me to do well, I've got to do well. And somehow, I don't know why, but that was it for me. And then seeing myself as a teacher, I was like, that's easy. We all teach in some way. And ever since then, that's been what I enjoy. So that's kind of part one. I do enjoy that piece to it, too. I've had companies come and I've had companies go in, and I've sort of seen that by staying behind the scenes, you're always, in a sense, starting over. So I'm trying to work extra hard now to build my own brand, too, so that I have opportunities that come to me. So now I will get people who contact me, because one of my companies, we actually acquire other companies now, so people will see me. I actually did a podcast show. A person found me, asked me to coach them, which I don't do. But for him, he just was like, please do it. Please do, please. And I was like, fine, okay. And then I ended up coaching him to his. To take his company to about 1 million in sales. And then we actually ended up buying him and kind of partnering with him on that company. Now we've taken that company to almost 6 million in annual sales. And I think this year our goal is to cross over 10 million. So that's the other cool part, just getting yourself out there. You find people, you become open to different.

Opportunities. Right? They're just out there. So that's. That's kind of my reasons.

Well, I appreciate you for sharing that, and I can. I'm definitely hearing your heart, and it's apparent that you want to give. And truthfully, if you weren't qualified, there's no way that we would even have approved having you on. And I thank you because there's not enough people out there that want.

I think they're just happy with their success. They don't really want to give. You know, and I'm gonna. I might have to. This just occurred to me, I might need to change this, because I've been saying this since day one, but now, after interviewing hundreds and hundreds of people, I'm actually thinking there are a lot of more good people out there because you can be successful and not want to give back. You can be successful and not tell anyone a darn thing you're doing. You don't need to do books, you don't need to do interviews. You don't need to do any of this. I think it's a subsect of the marketing community. What's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think there are a lot of people who don't give back in the sense, partially. I think the problem is a lot of people. And this will sound. I don't know how it'll sound, but I was going to say it. A lot of people luck out and they sort of hit one little thing at the right time. And so I don't know if they even honestly have the skill set to teach and share because their. Their background was pretty much like, I.

Was in the right place at the right time, I did the right thing.

And it kind of went okay. So I think some people just don't know, and that's fine. You know, I think some people don't.

Don't care.

It's just not their thing. You know, we shouldn't force people to do stuff they don't want to do anyway.

But then I think also the third.

One is there are. There are people that, like, real, true, true experts, you know, most of the time. And this is where I find myself often is I don't have that much time because I'm doing all these things. You know, I have to, like, make time. And that is a challenge. But so I think it's kind of those things now. The worst thing, worse than people who teach, who could teach that don't, are.

People that teach who shouldn't, you know.

And that's the other side of it. You got a lot of people that are out there trying to share these things as they discover them. And there is a certain truth to the fact that you can always help people if you're at. If you're on step B, there's someone on step A who you could give some advice to.

But.

But I think we get pushed in.

This new age now to, like, everything.

Should be a course, everything. Everyone should be a, you know, consultant or coach. And I think that that sort of overwhelmed the whole. The whole space. And that's caused there to be sort of that. That eye roll when you tell someone you're a coach or a consultant or whatever. It's like, oh, all right, sure, you know, so you've got to work extra hard to kind of separate yourself from that. I also think that when you create content like this, this is. To me, this is sort of the start of my sales cycle. Right.

People will come on, they may.

Now some people may be like, this guy's awful, he's dumb, fine. Some people may say, this guy, genius. I can't wait to talk to him more. Right? So you're going to attract different types of people. And instead of having to sell and be hardcore, you can just be cool, be yourself, be casual, and the right audience will find you through things like this. And then you go from there and.

You know, maybe you end up like.

For me, I'm not actively seeking or selling anything. I have one course, but it's not a real big deal to me. And so oftentimes I think that transparency, that honesty, it attracts higher quality caliber, high caliber types.

And that's who I'm after too.

Well, I appreciate the transparency because there's a lot of people who pitch and it's apparent. And when I'm doing guest interviews, I go on a lot of shows myself. I'm always looking to add value. And that's what I'm. That's what you're doing. And you nailed it when you're doing it. You don't have time to be marketing, to buy the thing. To buy the thing. To buy the thing. It's like you should be making offers. But if that's your, if you're a one trick pony, it's like maybe increase your skill set a little bit. And I think you're a prime example for that. One of the challenges I'm having right now, you've mentioned so much good stuff already. I'm like, do I ask him 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 for the next question? Because there's so much. I mean, you're saying, I don't want to get on camera, you don't want to do this. But yet you've been on tv. What was that experience like with Extreme Makeover?

Yeah, so, yeah, so the weight loss show, that was more out of sheer.

Desperation because I, back in the day, this is very odd for me because I feel as though I'm talking about someone else. So you have to kind of understand that. So if I say anything, you're sharing.

The honest to God truth. And that's all I ever ask. Say whatever you want. Honest.

Yeah, so I. Yeah. So back then, you know, this is like in the 2009, 2010 timeframe, I weighed as much as 540 pounds. I remember that because I recall thinking, man, I'm closer to £1,000 than I am to zero, which was just like very odd thing to think about. And so I was very. I was very ill. I was tired all the time. I had all these problems and. And I heard about this weight loss TV show that was casting, and I didn't think about being on TV or any of those things. I just was like, I'm so big, I'm so out of shape, I need help. I've tried it myself for years and years and years and I got to do something. So I went and tried out with like, it was like 10,000 people tried out for this thing. And of that they picked eight people. And I lucked out to be one of those eight and forever thankful for that. And then that show aired on ABC in 2012. And during that year, I was. When I started the show, I had dropped a few pounds myself. I was 493 pounds. And after one year.

I ended the show at 238 pounds. So I lost 255 pounds in one year. So quite a story there. Quite a journey. And yeah, it was six. It was like about six hours a day, six days a week of exercise, either cardio, four or five hours, weights for a good hour and just constant. And the part that is insane, we actually had to keep our jobs. It wasn't like you go off to some thing. Yeah. So we still had to stay at home. We only got paid for the first three months because there was a. The first three months was more active, like filming stuff. Well, we didn't get paid that much. And then after they just gave you.

A stipend, pretty much done.

We were on our own. Yeah, stipend. I want to say it was 500 bucks per week, maybe, and some food money too. And that was about it. And so then. And that was only for three months. And then that's it. Then it was back to your job, back to all that stuff. So I had to still try to like write copy on the side. And I'll tell you, when you're that big and you, you know, if you go right now and you go out for two or three hours, you home and you feel it, Right. Imagine weighing three times what you do now, and you're out there for six hours and you do that every day, six days per week. I would sleep. I mean, it was like all I did was like exercise, work, sleep. That was pretty much all that was it. And it was hardcore. But I'm thankful that I went through it because it truly proved to me what I can do. And I Was able to find out that there's so much more that we're capable of. We just don't. We just aren't ever pushed. Right.

Yeah. And again, a new, new question emerges from you sharing this and I thank you for it. It sounds like you had that mindset. Whether it's the weight loss or multiple successful seven and eight figure companies, you're all mindset there. There isn't anyone achieving these levels of success. And the transformation, I mean, they're drastic on both regards. The question three or four was when you're saying, I don't normally do coaching and consulting, but you help someone go from where they were at to over a mil to now six and all that, it's very much in the same vein I'm hearing as losing. I mean, twice as much as you weigh 50% of anything, let alone over 500. That's a lot. They're both big jumps. So how important was the mindset to accomplish those?

Yeah, I will tell you for sure. Mindset is everything, but it's not everything in like the traditional sense of like, think good thoughts, get, get good things. The breakthrough that I had, which is funny because you're the, you're the guy that I should probably talk to about this. But I have a great book that I want to build out and it's, it's been a big breakthrough for me. So I grew up in the whole like positive mindset, goal setting and I do enjoy all that stuff. But I realized something years ago. I would get up every day 500 plus pounds broke, had no car. My car caught on fire with me in it. No job, just completely. This is when I was like 23, 24, didn't have anything, dropped out of school and I would write goals all the time. I will be fit and so I will look good and I will weigh 200 pounds and all this. I would have this great thing, but I didn't do anything and nothing changed. And I would sit there and be, why isn't it changing? Finally, the breakthrough, the discovery, the mindset piece is that goals don't work and motivation is a myth. So that's my book title right now. I'm trying to test it out, but here it is. The real trick, the real secret, if there's is one, is that a goal is nothing more than a headline with a deadline. And then what you do is you can you convert that goal into a project. See, projects get done, goals get talked about. And if you take the methodology of projects and you apply it to getting things Done, you'll get so much more done. Because you're not going to think about it as some ethereal goal. I'm going to get to it at some point, right? If I come to you and say, hey, I need you to. To make this site a reality, if it's a site, you would say, great, okay, what's the name of the site? What's it got to be up by? What's the content? What's this? And the things that you couldn't do yourself, you would assign them to other people. Same thing. If you can't do it yourself, assign them to others. Create that, that whole project and set timelines and all those things. And that, for me, was a.

Quite a big thing. But there's a part two, and that is, you've got to have just a no quit attitude. And I do. I mean, I have been kicked in the face. I've been knocked down. I've been through lawsuits, I've been through weight loss, weight gain. I've seen it all. I've been there. And I just. I don't care. I will keep going on till the day I die. I will just fight every single day. And you have to approach life with that attitude, because if not, there's so many times you can quit anytime you want, you can quit. You know what? It's always justifiable, too. You can say, well, this happened. I got sick. This happened. That's true. You can quit, but you don't have to. And for me, that was a big thing. I just made the choice. I'm not going to quit. I'm just going to go, go, go, no matter what it takes. And, you know, I'm still not there yet, you know, and I probably won't ever be where I want to be, but I. I will keep going every single day until I end up at least better off than I am now.

Where's that tenacity and burning desire stem from?

Yeah, it's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I think that it probably, deep down probably comes from a desire to want to impress others. Probably from what I was younger, I had a very, very bad stutter, which you can tell sometimes I have to kind of change up the way that I speak. But that was kind of the start for me. I got put into a class with all these kids who couldn't read because they thought that I couldn't. And it wasn't that I couldn't. It was just that I would try to read and I would stutter. And so I was like, no, I can read. And I think from that point on, I. I always felt like I had to do more, do extra, show that I had something. And I had a lot of teachers as I got older who would say, oh, Mike, you're a smart guy. You're going to do something big. You're going to be real special. And I had all these people, my family, too. There was a lot of pressure on me, I think, to do all these things. And I think the problem was I was focusing on the wrong thing. I was focusing on what I would want. And when I finally found that, and this is, you know, that was when things for me started to change. But I'm sure behind it all, there's some drive to achieve, because I probably thought either I couldn't or didn't achieve it. Like, I recall being, like, 20, being upset that I was still, like, broke. You know, Now I look back, I'm like, I was 20. I didn't have anything right. But I was like, I'm so late. You know, I started my first real company when I was 24, and I thought then I was like, man, I'm so old. You know, like, that's so. I think that was. I've always felt like I was trying to catch up, and I've always felt like I've got something that I'm here for to do beyond just what I'm doing right now. So I'm in sort of a growth stage to build up the financial.

Backing to be able to do whatever that thing is. I just kind of have always felt that way. So I think that also is there, you know, I don't know why, but it's just there.

I can definitely relate. It's it. You know, I have to remind myself at times. You know, right now, literally in this moment, I'm living the dream of two years ago of saying, I want to be confident on camera, know the questions without looking at a sheet of paper. This, that, the other thing. You know, I remember episode zero where I'm sitting there crying my eyes out because I'm freaked out of my mind. Episode one, two, and three. And now with over 300, it's like, it's easy and effortless, but you have to remember when you're working towards something, right now is what you were hoping for before. And. But, yeah, I'm striving for more. I'm just getting started. I feel like I might actually have parts of this figured out, but by no means do I have all of it figured out. And it Changes like you're talking about. And I'm hearing that passion, that desire. So I want to ask you, what's your end game? What, what from, from whatever age you are now to, you know, before you pass on, what's your end game with all this? Because you, you, you've accomplished so much already. Where are you taking this?

Yeah, I think, well, if I have it my way, I want to, you know, I have, you know, quite a few companies right now. Over the next probably two to five years, I probably would sell those off, sort of cash out. I actually have a very weird dream. I don't know if this will come to be it or not, but I would love actually to go to law school, which I know is very odd, doesn't fit any I've said, but I had this idea to be able to kind of help people who can't get that help. And so that would be like one way that I, that I would like to give back. Obviously I want to have, I would like to have kids too. So I'm trying to work that out now with my wife. I think we're going to start here soon. That'll probably change me some too. Longer term though. Yeah, I want to be. I would like to set up some non profits, do some charity things. I have a lot that I would like to do in the weight loss nonprofit area. And bigger than that though too. I want to start to sort of create books and kind of just write a book each.

Year on different things like goal setting with the projects, all these kind of books that explain my story, how I got to where I was and how I think other people can like. I have an idea for a book called the Poor Man's Way to Wealth and kind of going over some of the principles of what, what people can do. And my dream is that someday like that book will be like one of those like forever books that just people buy, you know, way way far in the future too. You know, that's. That would be cool for me.

That is. I appreciate. That's incredible and thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. And none of that is that far fetched. I mean, we were joking earlier about the people who shouldn't be teaching and are. You should be teaching. And I'm glad you want to be doing more of it because doing a book a year isn't that difficult. You could easily do that. I think the family is great. I'm looking forward to that myself. And as far as law school, I feel like I'm talking to another version of Me, because that's what I almost ended up in. I wanted to be a lawyer. I've always wanted to help people. Doctor, lawyer, FBI, CIA, attorney, police officer, doctor, FBI. There was something else. What? It all stems around helping people. But I didn't love school. I didn't love school. I always liked helping people. And I remember asking someone, I was like, can I just take the LSAT and like, just Skip the whole four years of basic college? Because I'm like, I took 18 years of this trash. Why do I need four more of the basic stuff? Like, give me the hardcore stuff. And the answer is no. I don't know if that's changed, but I still think the answer is no. But surprisingly, after law school, I wanted to go and make movies after I got my law degree and owned the law firm. So I think this stuff. I'm hearing a lot of the same stuff, like, this is us at the core, you know, and serial entrepreneur. Why not just one business? How come you have multiple? And why do you keep doing it?

Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean, some of it is just partnerships and things that just kind of come up. I do think I do too much, if I'm being honest. I do think I do too much. And so. But again, you get these things, and sometimes you can't. There's. And this is something that they don't really ever talk about, but sometimes you can't get out until the timing is right. So you have to kind of play it and do what you have to do. And you have different partners or you have investors and you're. You've got to help them out and, you know, make them get what they want too. So for. For me, it's kind of like I had a few things. I started some things. Some people came to me with things, and I do. I'm a lot better now than I was at saying no. That's a big.

That's a big thing.

And so I'm still sort of coming down off of. Off of that. I think of saying yes for quite some time because I do have that mindset of I can go do anything, I'll figure it out. So, I mean, to that end, we have, like, the two health companies. We have a educational SaaS, software company, a real estate investment fund, a company that re. That does, like, rehabs on properties. I have my copywriter software company. So that's just off top of my head. That's just six. And then we're always bringing things in or out. So I think there may be two or Three more that we bring in soon, and that'll probably be it for me. I don't think I'll do much more on that. And then I probably will just do consulting things.

Just keep it at half a dozen. That's good. One for each day of the week, right?

Yeah. I joke around, too, that I'll just sell one company per kid.

That, that.

That I have. Have a kid, sell a company, Have a kid, sell a company.

Great way to do it.

Yeah.

You know, I've often heard that you should set goals. Don't. Even if you have the money to do something, the time to do something, just because you want it doesn't mean you should just randomly get it. Always attach it to a goal, and when you hit that goal, you can use it to reward yourself. And I've done that many times and kind of reminded me of that.

Have a kid, sell a company.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there are. I used to do that when I was. This is kind of odd, but I recall being younger and I would be like, I'm so thirsty, but I can't drink until I finish this email. You know, I make myself do all these things, just even go get a drink, you know, I don't. I'm not quite like that nowadays. But I do think as you get older, you kind of chill out some, you know, I think I'm seeing that in myself. I'm 39 now, so I'm about to hitting 40 next, you know, about six months from now or so. No.

Eight and a half months. So, yeah, I don't know. We'll see how things go when I.

Get to be that age.

But I think knowing me, I'll just keep on doing it, you know, this is kind of me now.

Yeah. It's interesting what we have in our mind. I can relate to that, you know. Oh, I'll go do XYZ after this. And four hours later, it's like, you've now missed lunch and dinner. Stop it. Go do something. But I've noticed. I don't know about you, but do you ever hold your breath when you're scrolling.

Like to focus or something?

I've never thought of it, but I probably do. Now I'm gonna have to see. Now I have to kind of see it, but I don't know. I'm.

I'm trying to break that so bad. I got so many videos and gigs and terabytes and just so many videos and clips and from everything. It's like when I'm scrolling, even to share it with my team. It's like.

It'S like a freak out. It's like there's, it's like, I don't know why, but I don't know if it's a focus thing or whatever, but I appreciate the transparency because we all have these quirks and tweaks and different things. It's like, I think that's what makes it fascinating. I mean, if I were to just have said, and I do want to ask you, before we thank our sponsor, I want to ask for the audience, you know, what are some things you could say if you're dealing with copywriting issues? What are some things you can actionable take action on? But I mean, I didn't want to just lead with that. I know you're, you have so much a wealth of knowledge. I mean, I could sit here and just could be like, so tell me through the 12 steps of what you should. I mean, I know you can and it would be valuable, but I just, I don't know. People have done it to me. They're like, so what's step three? What's step four of book publishing? What's step five? I'm like, really? That really just get the book. Like it's in there.

But.

All right, so yeah, you want a few tips now or you want to wait?

Yeah, you know, if you have something more to say on anything we've covered, feel free. You know, I just, I just have enough honest conversation with you, but I do want to wrap it up in a bow and say, okay. For someone that wants to deal with copywriting because it's so important and it applies to every single business. And I know you said you have a tool on it and everything, but at the crux of it, what would you say is a good copywriting structure?

Yeah. So the old formula that we all teach and share is called Ada Aida.

And that is basically a four step process. And that one's been around forever. It basically stands for attention, grab their attention, interest, get them more interested. D is desire to build that up. And then that final A is like action, go and like, you know, take action. And that's a good formula, especially if you're going to write a quick email or an ad, but something that I try to kind of think about from that standpoint and what I teach people. Man, you're right. I have so many things that I could say here. But when it comes to writing, say an ad where you, where you want to get to the right person, there are probably three or four things there that you want to do is one always look at where the ad is being set. So are you on Facebook? Are you on YouTube, are you on Google, Are you in search? And you want to do what's called being native. And that is fitting in to the way that that crowd thinks and talks and is interacting with your ad. So if you're on Facebook, it should look and feel like a Facebook post. It shouldn't look and feel like an ad. It should be more of a story format or, you know, this is, you know, saying, saying something. Your photo should look more like a photo that you would post on Facebook. You want to fit in. But when it comes to what to actually say, the biggest thing is you have to know who your audience is. You have to know what they want. Copywriting is actually the easiest part. The toughest part is the copy thinking and the copy planning and the copy strategy. And that is like, who is it that you're going to go talk to? Who are you trying to sell to? What do they want? Why do they want that? And does your product or service give that to them? Now, I had said before about attention, interest and all that attention, you get that in a few different. There's a few strategies, but the biggest one is to do something that is curiosity building. That's the best way for humans to pay attention. So if you were to say something about your book per, you know, like what you offer, did you know, like what's 10 times better than a business card? And set you up as an authority figure, blah, blah, you know, and now suddenly everyone's like, what is it? Right? And then they go into that. And then the cool thing too, when it comes to interest. So a big thing. People will always teach interest and desire. And you're kind of like, well, what does that even mean? How are those not the same thing? Right? So I kind of, I kind of figured this out. Interest, Think of interest speaking to intellect. So you want that to be more of an aha. Oh, that's interesting. You want it to trigger a thought in the head. Desire is more about emotion. Want them to start feeling something. So the emotional side is the desire side. And you can use stories to help feel that in. And you want to get people feeling however you want them to feel before you segue them into action. And that step is like the call to action, which is like. And that's being very, very specific saying, I want you to do this thing. Now. One cool thing that they're finding now that's doing extremely well with calls to action is to really even in like your order page or on the submit button, explain what's going to occur or use that space to deflect away from a potential impact negative. So you could say like click here for a free trial, no credit card required. So see you're getting rid of an objection. Or click here now to opt in. Takes just three seconds, right? So then they're, oh, so it's fast. You know, you can, you, you can do those kind of things too. So yeah, there's a, there's a ton of stuff and you know, but those are just a few that I think could help us, you know, or could help people somewhat.

Well, I appreciate you for sharing that because you know, everyone, you'll hear one person say, oh, you need a killer headline. And then you hear someone else say, oh, it's about, all about the call to action. But those nuances you're talking about, click here to buy, click here to download, click here to get your free whatever. But sometimes it really is like, well, where's the email? Is it going to take a minute or two or ten minutes if you have to use a credit card just by putting no credit card required, like you said, that's overcoming an objection right there. That's going to skyrocket the click through rate probably regardless of what you have the picture, you know, if they're both comparable, you know, and obviously you want to split test that and everything and I know the headlines, the most important. But I can't tell you how many people, and I've even told people that before they come on. I think it's even in the onboarding emails and the welcome emails and all kinds of stuff where it's like, have a single call to action. You know, I'm very apparent with it. When I guessed on other shows it's like, oh, where would you like to learn more? You know, tell them where you'd like to learn more. Where do you want them to visit? It's like you're gonna get an opportunity to pitch something or plug something. It's like, oh well, just find me on YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn and the LinkedIn, there's the hashtag false forward, slash us and then there's another one. So put that in there. Otherwise and it's just like, why don't you get a domain for under $20 and redirect it to one page and just have them figure it out once they get there? No one is three. And truthfully, even if they were three, they could figure out the iPhone because they're Friggin geniuses. So thank you for touching on the call to action because so many people, they do the headline, they do all this stuff and you might appreciate the false beta.

Someone goes to the headline that. What's that?

Go ahead. Sorry, I, I haven't, I haven't heard that before.

So where someone clicks on the headline but they don't do anything past it because it's, it's just like catchy, it's trendy, it's whatever, it's an attention grabbing, but it's not really a. They follow through with it and you have to get them to the end of the funnel.

Yeah, yeah, you want. Your headline has to attract the right audience, otherwise it's just a waste of time. You know, it's the old, the old joke is you could say sex and everyone's like, oh, sex. You know, but then you go there. It's like, have you thought about an encyclopedia? I mean like no one cares or they're gone. So you've got to, it's got to be something that people want, but it's got to be something that they want that ties into what it is you're gonna sell.

And so many people are conditioned nowadays from seeing it from the, you know, every five, ten years that goes by heck, even every year there's more and more trash out there. So people get tuned off to it.

Yeah, you also, yeah, that's a big thing. There's a whole book called Breakthrough Advertising. And that's a cool thing that he teaches is this concept of market sophistication and that markets are constantly changing so you, you got to change along with them. So markets open with just being able to make of a promise, like I will show you how to publish your first book, you know, easy. But then competitors show up and you have to up it up some by giving a more explicit promise. I'll show you how to publish your first book in 90 days, right? But then someone else comes out and says, I'll teach you how to do it in 30 days. And then you're going, crap, I gotta beat that guy. And now you're saying I can do it in seven days, you know, and then you end up amplifying. And then eventually you weed out most people because they're like, this is a scam, because they just think everyone's. Because now it's like write your first book without having to pen a single word and it'll be done in 10 minutes, you know, I mean like it becomes, this is amplifying extremes. And so at that point, you can actually then take a step backwards and you could actually say, and this is kind of like stage three and four. But you. You create what's called, like, a unique mechanism which separates you from everyone else. So you say, I'm going to teach you how to. How to publish your first book with my unique podcast strategy. Well, that's interesting. Now suddenly you're completely separate again, but same problem. Now someone will say, publish a book with my podcast strategy in one week, in three days, in one day. So you repeat again. So the ultimate and the only way to break free from that whole cycle is to do what's called personification, which is like the ultimate ideal. And this is when you move to being away from direct response and more to being a brand. And that is being where people buy from you because they want to be you or they want to be like you. And that's like Coca Cola, you know, they don't have to pitch their soda, right? They. People buy it because they get a feeling from that. So that's the best dream. It's kind of tough for us because we don't have the funds to spend that much, you know, to kind of create that. So we have to kind of play between a stage three, four, with that kind of stage five, where we just got to be cool, fun, and, you know, find the people that want to be like us. So anyway. Yeah, but that's. That's kind of what you're saying there.

Well, I'm glad you're doing it because I know you're going to continue to help a lot of people. And if you just keep adding value like you are, I mean, people are going to realize that. And I would say that's my saving grace. I jack stuff up all the time. I mean, totally honest, but it's like, even with the expert authority effect publishing method, you know, I'm smirking thinking about that because it's like, yeah, there's publishing methods, but you don't have mine. And it's like, even if it's similar, because that's exactly what I've been seeing over the last decade of doing business, book publishing is everyone's going, oh, this, that, the other thing. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's getting so diluted where, you know. But at the end of the day, no one has me, no one has my team in our process that. I mean, to be honest, you want to get on Amazon, upload the stupid file. It's a word doc. I joke about that all the Time. They're like, Because I see people positioning as, oh, we'll get you on Amazon. It's like me going, well, I can get you into. I can get an email sent to you. It's like, it's not a big deal. It's really not. Yeah, so what's that?

I'll give you. Yeah, you'll get what?

Say last part.

I was like, that's like, say. That's almost like saying, I'll create you a Gmail account of your very own. Like, it's the same.

Exactly. You want a landing page, too. Oh, because there's not 58 builders out there nowadays. So I always go back on, how are you treating people in business? Are you adding value? Are you going above and beyond? It's like, what with all this stuff out there now, how did people. A hundred years ago.

Like, you're. To your point? One of the classic books I was thinking of Think and Grow Rich. What was so special about that? I mean, they didn't. They didn't do a live stream of it. They didn't put it on. Did they have video back then? They may have had video, but it sure as heck wasn't a live stream in color around the world on all these devices. How did all these. I love going back 100, 200 years into your point of the copywriting. I love finding old ads. It's hilarious to see what they could do and it worked, but it's also inspiring to see what they were doing and still do. That's still working. Because at the core, yes, if you're doing it right, it doesn't. It doesn't matter on the product. I mean, obviously there's differences, but I love seeing ads from the late 1800s.

Yeah. There's an ad that's run for, I think, unchanged for. I don't know. It was like, when I. When I last saw it, it was like 90 years. And it was for these shoes that. That add a couple inches height to men. So there's these men's shoes and the headline said, men, colon, be taller. I'm telling you, how can you beat that? It calls out the audience. It gives you the primary benefit, and it's not promising anything other than you're going to be taller. And it's like, that's what I want. I'm a guy who's short. I want to be taller. This is it, you know, so they couldn't beat that forever. Now, these days, we'd be like, man, do you want to grow 4 inches instantly? We think we can oversell it. But truthfully, honesty is always going to appeal better. You know, there will be people that get pulled off, but in general, the right audience, the people that you want are going to be, are going to be to be called more towards honest, transparent ads too. So, you know, but anyway, that's. That's one of my favorite old ones. Now, some of the old stuff is crazy. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but they got away with all kinds of stuff back then.

But yeah, there were some that were just straight up, like, wow, I don't think that could ever get by now. But they still had structure. They still had. Or the newspaper. Everyone thinks that, you know, and I'm kind of a catch 22 because as much as I don't mind.

Things looking nice at the end of the day, I love reading old newspaper articles where it's like, men be taller. Boom, boom, boom, boom, click. Or it was, what was it? Clip this, cut this out and mail it into this address for your free whatever. I'm like, wow, before email, they actually were like stamping stuff. And can you imagine working in the mail room like, oh, here's all the leads we got today. Like physical paper.

Yeah, there was actually.

Yeah, there's a story of one of the most famous copy writers is a guy named Gary Halbert. He passed away quite some time ago, but he, he did a very, very.

Big direct mail campaign where he had found the kind of like the family crest of all these different people. So he mailed everyone in the country based on. On their last name. So it would say, hey, great news, we found them a, you know, McGregor family crest. If you would want one, you know, mail me here, you know, you know, send a check. He actually had so many checks coming in at their peak that he had a girl. Her entire job all day long was go to the bank and just cash the checks one by one by one by one. They would show up sometimes thousands per day. And that thing, I think back then there was maybe 250 million people. And I think he mailed that piece, I mean, something like 5 or 600 million times. And just think about that, just getting a small percentage to say, yeah, I mean, it was crazy. They said it was just like bags, these bags and bags. They had to hire additional people at the bank just to be there to help, you know, to deposit those checks. So, yeah, it's crazy time.

Yeah, it's. It's inspiring. I mean.

I remember when I started my first business doing lawn care, maintenance, power Washing and everything. I have stopped this since then because I can't believe I was speaking this negative. I believe in self talk a whole lot. I mean, if you're just constantly putting yourself down, it's gonna be real hard to rise up. But I remember distinctly my friends were, they're like, hey, you want to get ice cream? You want to go to the movies? I'm like, oh, I have to go to the nuisance again. Everyone was giving me cash nearly every day of the week. How is this a problem? But I was calling the bank the nuisance because it was like, oh, I got to go back there again.

Yeah, yeah.

Now we can get in a whole debate with credit cards and the processing fees and all that stuff. I'm thankful for ach and wire transfers now. But it was just like the mindset. It's like, here's a huge blessing. And I was just like, oh, this is interrupting my ice cream time. Well, guess who is covering the ice cream and the reason we're being able to pay for it. So it's just amazing when you can open your mind and just these whole possibilities. So before we thank our sponsor, I got one more question for you. For you. And it involves the wheel of whatever. Is this thing still put together? It's getting a little loose from spinning it all the time. Hold on. All right.

Well, that wasn't good. You want yellow or black?

Yellow. Let's be fun.

Yellow it is.

So my question for you, with everything you've accomplished, clearly you're successful your whole life. You also have a multitude of avenues and venues and different things. It's not just business or not just personal. What has made you feel the most accomplished and successful?

Good question. So I mean, the easy answer, firstly is just my spouse. She was in. She was there for me when we met. I was big and she didn't care, and she was there through all that. So that's my most easiest answer because I'm just so thankful for her. And she's like, very tough. I'm like, very nice, easy going, you know, and so she'll be the one to kind of fight for me, which is kind of, you know, good for me to have. But I think business wise, probably the biggest thing for me was I actually went through a very, very tough time with one with my biggest company. We grew it to almost 25 million a year in sales. And then a company that we had contracted with previously got sued by the ftc, of all things. And we got pulled into it to provide subpoenas and Paperwork and all this stuff. And that dragged on for about, for about a year and it cost us over a million bucks. And we weren't even the ones who were in it, we were just third was called a third party. At the very, very end of the day though, anyone who made a profit from that company, they will, they were asking that we pay back everything that we had earned. And that was in, that was like from years past with other partners and all this stuff, there was no way so we had to actually reach up settlement. We didn't have to admit to doing anything, but we had to just pay up. So I literally went from making millions to turning over millions between attorneys and all these things and basically starting from scratch again. And I honestly don't even know how, but I was able to within, within 12 months from then I was able to start rebuild and grow a seven figure company from pretty much zero and now almost on to eight. And that's the thing that I'm the most proud of in that sense because like so many people were like, oh sorry, you know, you'll come back, it might take you 10 years, you know, like. But I just knew in my mind I had been there. I've done it before and I can do it in a. And it was a brand new space too. Brand new space. And so that for me gave me more confidence too. That's like, man, you know, I was able to pull it off, you know, and so, and that's a hard thing to do. I mean many people have gone through similar things and just been wrecked and there were, I'm not going to say that it was easy, there were times when it was hard and you felt like just trying to give up. Right? But, but I just felt like, okay, this is my chance to prove that I've been there before. I think that's a key when you've started from scratch and you've come from not much. You know, it's like, okay, we're back here again, let's go again. Right. And so yeah, that for me, I am extremely proud of that. And it was, you know, I just, I'm shocked, I'm thankful, I think it's miracle in that sense. But I, but I did put in a lot of time, a lot of effort. But still, I mean, I think things fell in the right.

The chips fell in the, at the, in the right spots. I guess you could say, well, good for you.

And that is quite an accomplishment. What would you say? How are you able to do it in such a short time to Go from zero again to over seven figures in under a year. What would you say is a main.

I think it's spotting opportunity because I was able to partner with that, with the guy that I had met. I do think there is a key to the fact that when you get somewhere, you build up a lot of friendships. You meet great people. There's people that know me. They're like, oh, my God, I can't believe you got pulled into that. It's awful. What can I do? You know, what can I do? And so you. You definitely find out, as I say, who your friends are, you know, when you go through bad things.

And.

But I think the key for me was recognizing opportunity when I saw it and putting my best skill set out there, which was at the time, copy, of course, but also strategy, acquisitions. So during that time as well, we negotiated the purchase of a supplement company for 100 bucks, and it came with 60,000 bucks of inventory, too. So, you know, but I had to. I had to. That took a lot of time, a lot of phone calls. We, you know, held back equity for the guy we were buying it from. But, you know, so that's a whole other story there, too. But yeah, and I think it's about when times are hard, you can sort of just give up or you can say, I'm going to fight. And I just. And I made the choice I was going to fight. And I also, as I went through every single option. That was a big key is going through every single option. I used to be. Because I used to be so positive all the time, I would ignore anything bad. Oh, bad things. Don't. Don't ever. That's not me. I'm only thinking about the good. I kind of now practice this, like, stoic thing where I look at every single option and I plan out every single pathway. If this happens, I'm going to do this, this, and this. If this happens. Most of things don't, but that's fine. It's a good thought.

Exercise to go through. And then if bad things do occur, I'm not shocked. I'm not emotionally wrecked. I'm like, well, I thought about this and here's what I would have done. So let's go do that. You know, and that. That was a big thing, too. So that's. That. That's a key that I think people need, because most of the time when we get depressed or upset about things, it's because we weren't expecting them. And we love things to go the way that we think they should.

But Ultimately not in control.

You know, we're not in control of the outcome, but we're in control of the process. So that's what I do now. I focus on the process. What can I do right now to get where I want to be if I can, if I make the process right, my odds go way up that I'll get the outcome that I want. But I've begun to divorce myself from the outcome. Like the outcome is not up to me in that sense. It is in the sense that I create everything that I can to get it. But at the end of the day, there's all these factors outside of me that I can't control. So I focus on what I can and those are the things that I, that I focus on, I guess. And you know that. That's it.

Great expert authority insight and I appreciate you for sharing that because.

I can't even imagine. I mean, I've gone through a few things here and there, but nowhere near on that scale. And yeah, it sucks, it doesn't feel good, but just to be able to pick yourself back up and turn around again. Thank you for sharing that. We're going to thank our sponsor and come back with the imperfect action run titles, cover designs and promotion. Oh my. You are all excited to achieve your goal, maybe even dream of becoming an author to serve more people with your business. But it's turning out to be a lot more than you expected, huh? I get it. I've done it numerous times personally. Visit getmybusinessbookpublished.com today to take the first step on making this process enjoyable. Dare I even say fun? Most definitely profitable. Your business and audience depend on it. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori.

I went from having an idea and a possibility to actually getting my book published.

Or Catherine, thank you for making my mom number one best selling author. Or Mary Alice what he got done for me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable John Cody I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful in getting me where.

I needed to go with promoting my books.

Rocio there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process.

Adele, if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner.

I can't make a recommendation.

To work with Mario Ficcini. He has been great for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit getmybusinessbookpublished.com today to take the first step. And I look forward to hearing your transformation as our next video success story. Once again, that's getmybusinessbookpublished.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Mike, are you ready to take imperfect action?

I'm ready. Let's do it.

Got three questions for you. 60 second or less answers. The first one is what is the fastest path to the cash?

Fastest path to the cash is to.

Find something that you're passionate about, that you have the skill set to go do and that you have an audience that you could sell it to. And look for the best way to combine those three things. Your passion, your skill, and the audience access.

Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Well, I don't have traditional prospects in that sense, but I think if it's copywriters or people that have to write ads, I think the biggest thing is they don't put in any time on researching who they're selling to or understanding the reasons why. And the fastest thing that they can do to fix their ads is to write to a single person and tell them exactly how your product will help solve their biggest problem. And more than just focusing on features or benefits, also explain or write out what their life will be like after the use of the product. So after they've achieved the result with your product or service, explain or describe in detail what their life will look like. Even use terms like imagine or think about what it'll be like when you know things like that and put that in their mind so they can begin to experience the feelings of the benefits, not just what the benefits might be.

Thank you for that. And do you have any books, checklist, anything to help someone at that step if they're going, okay, I've tried some copy. Maybe I can get clear on my perfect client or customer. Where would you suggest they start? Is there some books or a resource that takes you through how to narrow down the perfect client?

Hmm, that's a great question. I don't have anything off the top of my head. I do have a thing that I created called how to obliterate the Blank page and it goes over that some. But now you got me thinking I should probably create that. I should probably write something on that. But when I give out my site at the end, I'll throw it on there. That's free, too.

Yeah, that's a. I mean, that'd be a great resource. I'd love to go. I go through it ever so often, probably at least once or twice a year because I'm always trying to narrow it down even more. But when you were saying all that, it's. I mean, step one, it's hard to move a parked car unless you move the little rocks blocking the wheels. Then it becomes much easier. So step three. Question three. Just kidding. Question three is, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Yeah. So I honestly think the best way to maximize customer lifetime value is to take a portion of your marketing budget and put it towards your customer delight budget.

A lot of people don't think about this. They're always on the hunt for the next sale. And the reality is if you, if you, if you take extremely good care of your current customers, send them special things, give them freebie stuff, give them phone calls, mail them gifts, you'll find that they'll actually go out of their way and they'll do marketing for you. They'll tell their friends or they'll tell their family. Wow them some. I'm not saying don't do any kind of ads because obviously you should, but make sure that you use part of your, you know, what you make on those customers and give it back to them. And if you can do that in experiences, that's the top thing. Give them more experiences. Have a. Even if it's just something like this, a zoom call. Right. Jump on and be there for them. The value that you'll get out of that is massive. We used to send gift baskets to everyone who spent a certain amount. And those were big, big things. We did a seminar one time way back in the day, and we bought everyone ice cream. And people to this day, if they see me, they remember the ice cream more than anything else. They can't tell you what I spoke about, but they'll tell them, I love that butter pecans. You know, like, experiences like that go a long way. So that would be my advice there. Give back.

That was a great expert authority insight. And that does sound good, I'll be honest. So what books would you recommend to Expert Authority World?

Yeah, so obviously I've spoken about breakthrough advertising. Great book. That's by a guy named Eugene Shorts. Don't buy it through Amazon because it's thousands of bucks. There, ask me, I got a guy that can get to you for cheaper. But then secondly, great book I'm going through right now is over subscribed. Not sure who the author is. I'm going through that right now. Great book. Just about how to take better care of your current customers in order to always kind of sell out everything that you do. That's, that's the book I've got right now. I think a good, a good third book kind of out there, not part of this kind of topic, but I think it's called the Righteous Mind and it's by a guy named Jonathan Haidt and he's a moral psychologist. And it's just such an interesting book because it kind of explains why we believe the way that we do, why we're so tribal. And it helps from a, from a sales perspective you start to understand the different elements of morality and then if you're like me, you figure out how to use those when it comes to selling too. So it's kind of interesting, but it's not meant for that. But I, you know, I was able to pull that out because we have these different modes. So we're. Some of us are tribal, some of.

Us are Indo, some of us are community.

And there's these sort of like different aspects of the human mind and you can use those to speak to different cultures and to different ways to sell people to. So check that one out.

Oh, it sounds fascinating.

Yeah, it's a cool book.

Well, thank you for those great recommendations. Where would you like people to learn more?

Yeah, so best way I actually put, put up a site just for people that are here on your podcast. And I'm going to, I'll. The book that I sent to the.

The blank page book. So if people want to learn more about me and some of my different services or things like that, which they can go to copywriterbrain.com expert authority and on there they can join my copywriter brain community. It's free. And they also can watch a webinar that I have just done and they can do that and then they can join my, my newsletter there too. So all that stuff's there. All my socials are there. Like we said, you know, don't, don't make things hard.

Right.

So it's all going to be there for them when they go there.

Well, thank you for making that accessible and easy all in one place. That's very nice. It has been an absolute pleasure. I'm so glad we got a chance to talk. Talk. Thank you again.

Thank you.

All right, Expert Authority World, we have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless.

You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate qualified leads while increasing profit for you 247 and if so, how well are you promoting it? With the Expert Authority Effect publishing method, it's easier and more profitable than ever. Visit getmybusinessbookpublished.com today and take the first step to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book. In eight weeks. Visit getmybusinessbookpublished.com and take the first step knowing it will be your very best and you're leaving it all on the field. Oh yeah, and it's also free. Once again, that's getmybusinessbookpublished dot com.