0321 | Lloyd Yip

Hey, this is LLOYD Yip from attractandscale.com and you are listening to EA Interviews.

EA Interviews, episode 321, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the Imperfect Action Round. Seven days a week. Join Mario Ficcini for today's expert authority effect interview. I'm excited to talk to you about scaling your business up, but how do you do this? Do you hire more team? Do you maybe buy another business? Do you acquire new clients? Or do you, do you spend a lot of money on ads? These are all viable options. But what if I told you you could scale your offer to multiple six figures and beyond with no paid ads? Sound pretty good? I think it does. And that's why I brought Lloyd Yip on the show today. I'm going to bring them up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. And that's why I'm launching my new book to help you regardless of where you think you your current writing abilities are. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Lloyd Yip. Lloyd, how are you feeling today?

Doing really good. Thank you for having me today, Mario. Super excited to be going through all the secret sauce of how someone could scale even if they're not spending ton on paid ads.

Well, let's just jump right into it because this is a hot topic and I know a lot of people think you have to spend money on ads, so they just jump on into it, not really sure what they're doing and it may or may not work out. Generally it doesn't unless you have a coach or something. But then they go, well, I've tried that social stuff, I've tried that website stuff, everyone has tried it. But I want to ask you, why is having an organic strategy so important for a high ticket offer?

It's not one or the other. And I think someone who can solve paid ads, they're putting themselves into a really, really good position to succeed. But my argument is that even someone who is able to leverage paid ads effectively, they still should think about organic. Because the reality is paid ads can be pretty variable. It fluctuates a lot. One month that works really well, the other month it, it doesn't work as well because ad costs go up. Maybe your ad account gets shut down and you lose traffic from the most reliable traffic source that you have which that doesn't necessarily bode well for the business either. Right. So make sure that even with or without ads, you're able to generate 30, 40, 50k per month in revenue, which, by the way, is going to be primarily profit, because that's the beautiful thing about organic marketing. You're not really spending much money to get that revenue. That can be the stable foundation upon which you can start to run ads. Even if your ad account gets banned, you still have that revenue coming in. And if your ad accounts are going really, really well and you're actually generating good returns, then you'll have even more revenue to put into ads, because organic is capable of giving you that level of confidence. And even if you're not necessarily running ads, organic at that point then becomes a necessity, because how else are you going to really generate traffic? How else are you going to drive clientele? But regardless, I think organic is important. It provides stability, it allows to diversify where your leads are coming from, and it allows the revenue that you're generating to become profitable, which is so important for business owners making sure that you have money to support the bottom line.

Where would you say is the first place you should start with organic?

I believe the first place to start is actually a reflection on your own audience and your offer. Because depending on who you're selling to, that will really decide where your organic strategy even begins. For instance, let's say you're selling to enterprise SaaS, companies with over 100 employees, right? That's a pretty specific type of business. And if you're going after VPs of sales or VPs of marketing, it's pretty clear that given the B2B nature of that type of prospect list, LinkedIn makes a ton of sense. Email could make a ton of sense. But if you're selling to, say, moms between the ages of 25 to 40 who are trying to lose stubborn baby weight, you're probably not going to find them as readily on LinkedIn as you would on, say, Instagram or Facebook.

Pinterest.

Maybe Pinterest as well. Identifying who your audience is, what your offerings are, the problems that you're trying to solve, then gives you a gateway to understanding where organically you want to be spending your time. And that's something that people oftentimes forget. They just go straight to choosing their favorite marketing channel. Instagram, Facebook, whatever. But I can almost guarantee you that if you're doing what Mario does. TikTok, could it work? Maybe. But is building a podcast or leveraging LinkedIn, does that have a higher Potential, I would put my money on it.

So you're saying that people generally pick the social channel they're most comfortable with, but it might not be the best one for them in the business sense?

Correct. Identifying where your audience spends their time while they're actually thinking about their specific set of problems. That's where the channel selection should come from. Here's the thing, right? A lot of the women that I was talking about in that previous example, between the age of 25 to 40, who are looking to lose their stubborn baby weight, they could actually be on LinkedIn. But when they're there, they. They're probably not thinking about those specific sets of problems, meaning if they see content or if they see a message from you talking about those specific sets of problems, it's kind of weird. It's out of the context of that environment, and therefore any marketing message is going to be taken a little bit less positively. So understanding where your audience spends their time, but also their mindset while they're on that particular channel makes a huge impact.

That is a huge expert authority insight and I appreciate you for sharing it because, you know, it's no different than, you know, let's flip it and go, hey, when people are on TikTok, are they really thinking about business?

I don't think so.

It's possible, but I wouldn't even if it is. There's an opportunity cost that comes about trying to do everything right. Would you, in theory, generate business from Instagram and TikTok and LinkedIn and YouTube and like 17 other things? Of course. But there's only going to be a handful of things which will provide you the most bang for your buck, whether it be paid or organic. And you can only choose a small handful of them unless you have this massive team with a ton of resources like Gary Vaynerchuk. Right. So in that case, if you can only choose a handful of options, which are the places that you feel confident will give you the best return for the lowest amount of effort. And that's what I'm always thinking about, the ROI for time spent. Yeah.

Oh, I love how you're thinking about that. And it's a great point. And I don't think it's coincidence that I actually saw this earlier today. It was a comedy page, a meme or whatever, and it said something about, if your ad interrupts me during my playlist, I will never buy your product. And I was like, that's funny. But at the same point per conversation here, it's not just where the people are, but what are they doing and what mindset are they in? If you're having dance party, nothing wrong with that. Love it. Cafe, disco. You probably don't even. Even if you love businesses and own the company, you probably don't care right now.

But when you do care, are you in front of me when I'm in that mindset? So, outside of LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram, what are your thoughts on, like, a SEO strategy? Do you incorporate that into your organic marketing? If it makes sense, yeah.

So the interesting thing is that despite SEO technically being organic, I find that for a lot of niches, for a lot of verticals, to truly rank high up in the search results requires quite a lot of money or a lot of time. So if you're willing to spend thousands of dollars on an agency to pump up your SEO juice by injecting a ton of backlinks, that's a possibility. Yet it starts migrating away from the organic spirit of what we're trying to do. On the other hand, if it takes two years before you rank because there's so much competition and it takes you forever to get that much content created, that also doesn't necessarily meet the criteria that I'm aiming for, which is how can you reach monetization quicker? Utilizing organic strategy. So for the purpose of this conversation, for the purpose of the organic strategies that I spend more time talking about, it's more about the social and it's more about how can you actually get straight to the clientele that you can monetize.

Okay. And that's fair because SEO I've always treated as its own thing, but now, since there's paid social and unpaid and this and that. It's interesting because some people count SEO as organic, because technically it is. And I've heard other people say, yeah, SEO is free as long as you have 10 of thousands a month to spend on it. You know what I mean? So there's, like you said, there's that conversation. I think it's good because the fact that it's harder once you do break through. There's not a ton of competition going for. You know what I mean? It's not to say there's not competition, but it's like the podcast. If you've got 10 episodes. Okay, cool. So does everyone? Well, technically, no, most people stop after seven, but when you get to 50, 100, 200, 300 plus, it's like you're kind of differentiating yourself. And, yeah, it's not going to happen overnight, but I love that you take the Organic approach because anyone can do it. And there is a reality of you're not paying to play. Now don't get me wrong, I have paid ads going and we are doing organic stuff and we're beefing up everything because I have a team in place and I treat this very seriously and I'm committed and put in time, a lot of time, energy and money. But talk, walk me through if someone's going right now, okay, I want to do organic because I see the long term benefits as well as the short term. Where should I start and what are the, you know, steps I should take? Do you have a certain number of steps it always takes.

So let's break it down into three steps.

Sounds good.

And that way the audience here can really walk away having a fairly definitive roadmap. So the first step is once you've already chosen your channel, let's assume that you've already identified. Okay, this is where I want to actually be spending time. The first step is you want to build your audience. Because with all marketing we're needing to have that first step of getting people to even know that you exist. Who are you? What do you do? So there's a couple different ways in which you can do this. So even though this is step one of audience building, there's kind of different like approaches that you can take. The approach that a lot of people do take is content marketing, where you're sharing content and people are coming to you because they found your content and they enjoyed it. Another approach that people often take is just go straight to the source, send them a direct message. Marketers for years have been just sending out thousands of emails. My argument is that neither of these are optimal by themselves. My argument that doing them together actually provides benefit greater than the sum of their individual parts.

Let me even give you an analogy, right? For anyone who is in the dating game, I'm a 27 year old male. For anyone who is curious. And the context of this is because as a single guy, there's a lot of different ways to, to meet someone, right? I could go to the bar and I could just say hello to every person that I'm attracted to. And at the end of the night, if I talk to 100 people, I'm probably going to get a couple numbers here and there, right? I don't think anyone would think this is a very efficient, but it could work. Now on the flip side, you might have someone else who's taking the polar opposite strategy. They wear their best suit and tie, they get a nice haircut they try to look cool. Maybe they even surround themselves with other cool people, but they just sit at the bar.

People do that.

Some people do.

But they just sit at the bar and they expect that because they put on their best self, someone will come up to them and say hello and could it work? Maybe. But most people left with their own devices will not take that first initial step, male or female. So my argument is why rely on a pure volume game if we know it's not as efficient? Or why rely on a pure passive content marketing game where people are coming to us when it's also not the most efficient? Do both create content and you're going to be able to bring people to you if your content is good. But even if you don't have people knocking on your door proactively, 8 out of 10 of those people who enjoyed your content, they're not going to necessarily have come to you directly, but they will be very open if you were to then come to them taking that next step. So it's what I call warm outreach, where you warm people up with your content. On occasion, people will come and just submit a demo request, but the rest of which will pretty much give you very minimal signs that they're interested outside of maybe a like or a comment or a share. But that gives you enough of a hands up, so to speak, where you can then go and start the conversation. It's a warm conversation because they know who you are and you can then convert them that way. Audience building to me is a combination of pushing out good content quality fits your audience at a correct schedule in the appropriate channel choice, while also being willing to be proactive and talking to anyone who actually engages.

Wow, that's impressive. That is definitely not just spray and pray like most people do. That's very clear and concise.

That's what it has to be.

What do you do after they get that attention?

So after they are in your audience, so to speak, Right. Maybe they saw a piece of content or they saw you sending them a quick message based off the fact that they even dropped a small inkling of interest, this person is still not necessarily a fan yet. Right. They're probably still quite a ways away from buying. And if you're selling something which is thousands of dollars, which a lot of people that listen to you, they probably are, they're trying to become the expert authority on a particular subject matter, selling their services for thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. People don't make a decision on a purchase of that scale quickly. There's oftentimes a requirement for there to be a longer time of trust being built out. And this is why the second stage, the second step is developing indoctrination and nurture, where you're truly taking the audience that you work so hard to develop the previous step, but you're actually developing something more long term where they can truly say, oh, I know Mario, I know Lloyd. And that's why I'm willing to take that conversion opportunity for you. A podcast is really, really great way to do this because.

I've looked at the stats. Like someone who's jumping on a podcast, they'll probably listen to 20 minutes on average of a podcast episode. If someone was to listen to you for 20 minutes over a podcast episode, maybe several episodes in total, they've spent like hours of time with you. That's a really, really great way for you to not only develop that trust, which is frankly required for someone to eventually jump on a phone call with you if that's how you close, or to go to a sales page or another webinar, that is your conversion mechanism, but it also gives you an avenue for you to just ask for the sale, which is really, really critical. Eventually you got to ask for the sale. So this example was obviously a podcast. Not everyone necessarily has to start a podcast. But if you are selecting a particular channel, maybe it's LinkedIn, maybe it's Instagram, maybe it's Facebook. Understanding that the first touch point which brings them into your network, that's just the first of many. The next touch points are additional videos, additional content, maybe continuing to talk to them in the direct messages when it's appropriate. This is going to change channel by channel right on Facebook, which is where I do a lot of my business development. Facebook groups are amazing because it gives you an entire community feel where you can share additional content. And it's not just about you. It can be community generated content. It could be polls, it could be quizzes, it can be interactive. I do a live stream once a week in my Facebook group where I can directly communicate with the people that are joining. They can ask me questions, I can give them advice and give them additional assets that they could deploy and utilize for their businesses and see great results. And each of the channels out there, whether it be LinkedIn or Facebook or the others, has their own unique method and style of building that longer term, that nurturing that indoctrination relationship. And you just have to understand the intricacies of how each of these platforms work. Now, of course, if you work with Someone like myself and Mario, or there's other coaches out there as well. You can maybe get a shortcut on how do you really utilize each of these individual channels in a way which accelerates that relationship. But it's very clear that the people who win are the people who are willing to invest in the relationship so that their prospects are more likely to know like and trust them.

How long would you say it takes to build the relationship to the point where they know, like and trust you? And they say, you know what, now I'm ready to buy.

So all the data that I've looked at from studies and also my own experiences, it says around five to seven hours of interaction. Really? I know, but here's the thing. This five to seven hours can be experienced in different ways. If someone has almost like no marketing material, they have a mediocre website and minimal content, that person is going to be left with no choice but to spend the five to seven hours on a phone call, maybe several phone calls, maybe massaging back and forth over emails, or needing to introduce that prospect to a reference where the.

Referral has another hour conversation with the prospect. This is inherently inefficient because if you're trying to close a certain amount of clients new every month, but each client requires four hours of talk time on the phone and another hour of emailing back and forth and proposal writing, there's only so much that you can really do. It's either that or you hire a ton of sales reps, which is.

Potentially effective, but capital inefficient at times. Whereas when you look at someone else who maybe by the time someone jumps on a sales call, they've already seen two hours worth of webinar material. Maybe they've listened to a podcast, maybe they've seen several newsletters with really helpful, interesting content, maybe they've already gotten three and a half hours of that interaction out of the way before they ever jump on a sales call. What's going to happen when that person jumps on the sales call? Well, it's going to be closing a lot faster, right? There's going to be significantly less objections that are going to be popping up. There's going to be less need for the salesperson to explain the offer because that person probably already knows what the offer is. A person already feels there's a level of credibility there. So this is why content is important, right? We're not saying to not do a sales call. We're not saying to avoid those things which are one to one. But sales is inherently one to one. Marketing is inherently one to many. It scales better. So why don't we understand that and deploy that into the business and that way we can make the entire buying journey just much more effective at these larger scales, which of course, I mean, if you're listening to this, it's because you want to scale your business to multiple six figures, if not seven figures in revenue per year. It's what's required.

I agree 100%. I've been telling people for close to a decade now with business book publishing that it'll save them three to five hours. You know, I give you a copy of my book, even if we don't talk to the very end, it's probably at least three to five hours of retime, depending on how fast you are, maybe four to six. But I've been in scenarios where that's all I had with someone and by the time they were done with it, they're like, we need to talk. I didn't say boo other than that. And it's interesting, when you said five to seven, I go, wow, I didn't think it was only that little. I thought it was closer to 10 or 12. And it might sound like a lot to someone. And if you're listening and you think, wow, five to seven hours, that's a lot of meetings. New. Do the videos like he's talking about, do the different things. So that's actually part of my next question is for someone who doesn't have anything or very little things, or in my opinion, they have a lot of things they don't realize. What are some of the things you would suggest in addition to the videos to create the content, both if you have a podcast and if you don't.

So it really comes down to what do your potential clients want? I always try to defer as much to what adds value to the clients because sometimes what we want to create isn't what the clients care about, it isn't what the prospects need or want. So for me, I know my clientele, they really love actually having tools that they can deploy in their business. Things like pre built campaigns or copy or giving them access to the softwares that I use, maybe spreadsheets that I'm actually deploying internally in my business. These are amazing pieces of content that I know will add value to my audience because they're asking for them all the time. And then there's also education as well. I get a lot of questions from my clients and I get a lot of questions from my prospects. Things that are very clearly Amongst the top three to five curiosities that they have, knowing that that's what they are most thinking about deploying that in a masterclass or a webinar where I can tell them, like, listen, you're always asking me about these three or four problems. Let's just jump on a live webinar and let's bang them out. Let's show you exactly what it is that you're missing.

And if you can really learn from your clients and your prospects as to what would most add value to their day and you are creating an informed content strategy with this information, then you're going to win. Now, if you're kind of asking more so about the formatting, I think these days video is king. You're a believer in that as well. We talked off air about that and video is critical. Audio is big. It just allows people to really experience you and get to know your personality more so than just text by itself, not to say blogging is dead by any means, but you just don't get as much of like a direct line of insight when you're needing to read it all. But having a mix, right, Knowing that some clients at the top of the funnel, they're not going to be willing to sit through a 10 minute, 20 minute video with you because they don't know you well enough to invest that time you want to have on occasion, shorter, snappier, snackable pieces of content, be it in your stories or like quick minute long micro video snippets, short little blog posts. And then as people move down the funnel and their willingness to spend time consuming your content goes up because they trust you more. Now maybe now it's time for you to send them to a 30 minute webinar or an hour long masterclass because now they have the patience and the understanding that you can actually utilize that hour effectively. It's not going to be a waste of their time. So there's actually different pieces of content that are most effective at each stage of the buying journey. But understanding which type of content works well at each stage and also understanding that all the content needs to be directly relevant to the audience is critical. Right. And that's more or less step two. Step two is indoctrinating people with your content to make sure that they know, like and trust you so that that five to seven hours is efficient and that you're getting the majority of the people through those five to seven hours.

I couldn't agree more. I love everything you're saying and I'm just gonna ask You. What's the next step?

Yeah, and you know what's funny? The next step is gonna seem almost like counterintuitive and funny to a degree, because it almost like, contradicts the second step.

I like good humor.

And the third step is actually content. Doesn't matter.

Weird, right? It's really weird. Let me explain my thoughts.

What do you mean by that?

So here's the reality of how people consume content. They will see a blog that they enjoy reading. Maybe they'll subscribe to a podcast that they really like. YouTube videos. It's all the same. Yet when you ask someone.

Hey, of the 10 people that you follow most across all social media, how many of them have you actually given your money to?

Let's not even go there. How many of them have you even reached out to for any sort of service ever?

And the majority of the population will say, I have never directly contributed money to this person outside of maybe ad revenue that they've gotten from me consuming their stuff. If even.

Or maybe I haven't even ever reached out to them. I've never sent them a dm. I've never submitted a request for more information. I've never asked them for anything. Majority of people just lurk and they consume content passively. Now, this is fine because a, even if the majority consume content in this way, some will still reach out. These are your classic inbound leads, hot leads. The problem, though, is if that's all we're relying on, we're a kind of leaving our destiny in the hands of the consumers of content. And who knows what it is that they're going to do. But more Importantly, there are 80% of people who could buy your stuff, but they will just not be the one who takes the initiative to generate a sales call or to reach out to you. There's money left on the table, right? Because if, say, out of 10 meetings that you could book, two of them come to you proactively. The other eight are people who will only jump on the sales call with you if you actually proactively talk to them. If you convince them to jump on the sales call. If you don't do that, then you've more or less left 8 sales calls on the table for us. And this is a bit of a throwback to what I was saying way back in the beginning, during step one, that outbound and content work better together.

Well, at the end of the funnel, you have all these people that have been consuming your content for weeks, maybe for months.

A lot of them will never reach out to you. But as soon as you do, they will be more than enthusiastic to say hello. They'll be more than enthusiastic to tell you about their problems. They'll be more than happy to jump on a phone call because they're going to be thinking, whoa, Mario, the guy that I've been listening to for months, years, he wants to jump on a phone call with me. He wants to give me his undivided time and attention. Wow. Think about the different paradigm here. How much easier is it to close this person? How much easier is it to convince this person to jump on a phone call? How much better of a client is this person going to be if we don't accept that content, for the most part is just going to make it easy for us to do reach outs that left to their own devices, content is usually not enough to get people to actually take that first step to talk to us.

If we don't recognize these things, we're leaving money on the table. So the third step is, yes, utilize your content, but reach out, talk to people. Start the conversations in the DMs book, the phone call proactively. Don't wait for it to happen. Be the guy who is not only willing to put on their best outfit and get the nice haircut, but they're also willing to just go and say hello. If you can do that, then you'll 5x10x the amount of meetings that you're generating compared to your competitors who are just sitting on their hands waiting for content to bring in inbound leads. And then you'll 10x their business. And then they'll be curious, why is it that this guy is doing so much better than me even though the content is the same? Maybe. Or the amount of content is the same? Maybe. Like, what is it that they're doing is so different? I can't see.

Sounds like caring.

And I'll throw a caveat on there. The content is the same. Maybe. I often find it's worse.

That's the thing. Like, if one thing is representative of how you do everything, then the fact that someone is not willing to build that personal relationship might mean that their content's also not as personal or not as good. So when I think about the combination of these three steps, this is how you can truly make your organic system work. Right? However, let me, let me give you a bonus. Can I give you a bonus, Mark?

Please do.

All right, so there's actually a fourth optional, potentially step. Although if you're trying to scale into a seven figure company, I think it's less optional and more mandatory. If you're trying to scale into a low six figure business, maybe like mid six figures, you might be able to get away with not doing this. But that's why it's an optional step. All right. The fourth phase, if you will, is taking everything that I just said and making it scalable.

There's something that I like to call the vacation test. The vacation test is where you're able to go to Barbados or go to Hawaii or go to Nepal for a month without working at all, with no access to Internet and still having your business essentially run as though you were not even taking a break. That would be great, right?

The truth is, a lot of companies can't do this. A lot of companies, even if step one, two and three are working, there's good content being released, there's good outbound conversations, meetings are being booked proactively, there's a community, there's content, all that stuff. But if the CEO takes a break, everything kind of falls apart.

This is a business which I can guarantee is not sustainable because the CEO of that company has to work 60 to 70 hours a week forever, where the results stay the same. No one can do that. So eventually, yes, step one, two and three, they apply. But step four, the stuff that's necessary to build a true multi six figure or seven figure business is where your content engine works with or without you. Your outbound works with or without you. Your medium booking works with or without you. The only way to do this is by understanding where does technology fit into this, how can I automate certain things? And where on occasion technology just doesn't do enough. Maybe it's too nuanced of a task. Let's bring on people. Let's have people actually help us. Let's leverage other intelligent minds so that they can support us where we're weak and take loads off our shoulders so that we can actually focus on being a CEO. Right, Like a good CEO doesn't focus every single day on the front line activities. Elon Musk isn't out there actually screwing in nails or like or little bullets into his Teslas. Of course not. He's coming up with new offers, he's hiring people, he's managing talent, he's innovating and he's delegated 99.9999% of all of his businesses. That's why he can do so many different things. You have the same amount of hours as Elon Musk has. Everyone has the same amount of hours. Elon Musk has. But how do we deploy them? Step four is all about learning how to deploy other resources and other assets so that step one to three can take care of themselves. And that way you can actually spend time being the CEO of an optimized company.

What are some of those tools that you say that last part again, and.

That'S how Organic can be utilized at its most effective, at its most effective methodology, putting it truly on autopilot.

What are some of those tools you recommend? Systems tools, whatever the case may be. Sales teams. What should people start looking for if they're at that mid six figure and they want to go to seven and they're already done with the first three.

Yeah. So it depends on the unique system that everyone has built for themselves. Right. Like, I could see a world in which someone is super dependent on LinkedIn. Maybe they're doing some outreach, maybe they're creating a lot of content. So to Understand from that CEO's perspective, what is picking up the most amount of time? Is it editing videos? Is it distributing the content? Is it engaging with people in social media, in common threads and replying to them? Maybe it's even just the DMing. Everyone should literally just have a time tracking software which you can get for free. You can just literally Google time tracking software and they should try to analyze where is the majority of my effort being spent. Now, some of these things you're going to realize are impossible to offload, right? Or at least would be very hard for that person at that particular moment in time. And then some of those other things are going to be like, I could offload that, like that, like that right there. I could probably use a software to make that 50% faster.

I could use, you know, a VA. I could hire a virtual assistant who can then do that particular role. Because that rule doesn't really require much thought. It's really just something that I do the same way every single time. Why don't I just write up like a Checklist, hire a VA from the Philippines, pay them $7 an hour and have them do it and save me 10 hours a week. Some things, though, are more complicated. Some things, like creating content or running sales calls, are inherently more complex. But the beautiful thing is by the time that you're facing some of these problems, you're probably seeing some pretty decent results. And you should have enough capital that you could bring on someone into your team. And as long as you as a CEO, hire well and you create really good process so that when people come in, you can actually tell them definitively what it is that they need to do every single day to succeed, then put those two and two together and they've more or less removed a huge part of your day off your plate. And you can then reallocate your effort into doing higher level things. If you value your time at $500 an hour based off of how much you're earning per month and how many hours you're working, then really you shouldn't do anything that you perceive to be not a $500 activity.

And too many entrepreneurs, they plateau because they're earning a certain amount. Maybe they're earning 10k, 15k, 25k per month, but once they reach that point, they're still doing $10 per hour activities. And if your time is being bottlenecked doing $10 per hour activities, how can anyone expect to become anything more than that?

That's a huge expert authority insight. Because one of the things I've been telling my author clients for nearly a decade is about rescue time. And it's the same thing when we're working on the books to organize and showcase their expertise and everything. It's like, well, how long is it going to take? How much do I need this and that? You know, it takes some effort and it's like, you know, CEOs don't have a ton of it. But like you said, I love the comment about Elon Musk. Everyone has the same amount of time. There's 24 hours in a day, 168 hours in a week. I break, I personally break it up into 15 minute increments, which I affectionately call block 15 time, which gives you 96 hours opportunities a day. Oh, I don't have time today. What do you mean you don't have time today? You could jack up the whole day and spend 15 minutes maybe signing an agreement that's going to bring in, you know, another five or six figures in revenue. Maybe it's making that phone call 15 minutes and you know, you know what I mean? You can do a lot of stuff in 15 minutes that's highly productive and can pay dividends for years.

Exactly, exactly. So there's a stereotype or a criticism that I think a lot of people have with organic in the sense that, oh, it doesn't scale. Oh, it takes too long. And that's actually why a lot of people end up doing paid ads, because it's perceived to be more scalable. You put money in and money's printed out.

What I'm hearing a lot of is if you don't have your systems and you don't have the funnel in place and you don't have your processes and sop. It doesn't matter if you're running paid ads to throw fuel on the fire. If this whole thing is broken, all you're doing is paying to accelerate a problem.

Exactly. Like, if something doesn't work at a small scale, how is it going to work in a bigger scale? So in organic, that's what we're doing. We're going to solve cloud acquisition for free at a small scale. Right. Like, what's the minimum viable content that you need to get someone to, like, you know, you, trust you? What's the minimal viable conversation that you need to have in the DMs to get someone to book a call with you? What's the minimal viable sales call process you need to get someone to commit spending money and time with you? Now, if we know what these smaller things are.

Then building an organic system which truly works at scale, on autopilot, it's just a matter of all right, so how do we do that a thousand times every day? How do we do that 100 times every day? How do we do that 15 times a day? And how do we do all of those things at that volume without needing to be there?

Great process and strategy and then automations and a team to then make sure that it works at volume. And if you can solve that, then you can actually build a business that doesn't really require any asset at all, yet still be doing multiple six figures, if not seven figures of revenue per year. And if you can have that and then you're deciding, you know what, we have a lot of cash, we're sitting on it. Why don't we just reinvest this into ads? And you've already built an organic system that works.

Not only are you going to have more money to spend into ads, but you're going to have a bigger chance that your ads are going to work because you have an ecosystem, you have processes, you have a team.

So to me, and this is coming full circle, this isn't about doing paid or organic. It's not about deciding on one and then avoiding the other. It's about.

The most optimal system is organic that really works, which then allows you to do paid ads at a scale which can truly take your business to a generational level. Wow.

Incredible.

You know your stuff. I'm loving every minute of this. And I know expert authority world's getting a lot out of it. I'm thoroughly enjoying this. I want to ask you what made you even want to get into it, clearly you have a passion for it. It's not just work.

Yeah. So for me, I had my first taste in entrepreneurship when I was 18, 19, give or take.

I needed a summer job, and I didn't really work, want to work like a typical normal job. So there was this chance for me to start, like, a window cleaning company in university, and for whatever reason, I took it. Just hired a bunch of neighborhood kids, and we just went around knocking on doors and trying to, like, muster up some small deals here and there with the neighborhood.

At the time, it felt like the world. But now looking back, it was obviously as small of a small business it can be. But that was the foundation. That was where I learned, oh, you could actually make money for yourself. Oh, you can learn how to sell. You can learn how to get your own clients. I spent the majority of my early career after graduating in SaaS. Enterprise SaaS. So you've experienced that yourself, you know, that experience, and that was really good because that allowed me to also understand the technology, the software side of things. And then naturally, I think learning how to build delegated teams and learning how to actually manage people, that came about as just a natural part of the journey. Eventually, as a lot of entrepreneurs are, we just don't want to really build someone else's wealth anymore, especially if you have confidence in your skill set. Why should I leave the skill set to be primarily helping someone else when I could use it to leverage my own personal brand, when I could leverage my own wealth directly? That skill set. And that ended up being a decision that changed my life.

As far as what I do with attracting scale my company. It's been a lot of iterations. I didn't necessarily begin talking strictly about offloading and delegating and putting organic marketing on autopilot. But over time, I realized that this is what I'm good at and what I'm really passionate about. And I just keep my ear to the ground. Like my clients are always telling me, like, listen, my biggest frustration is I'm wasting time. I don't know why I'm spending 70 hours a week working when it feels like I'm not really getting that much accomplished. These are the things that I kept hearing again and again. There's got to be a better way. There's got to be a better way than spending ten grand on ads and not making a return. There's got to be a better way and spending hours and hours and hours recreating content that no one cares about. And this is what I arrived at.

Well, good for you. I can relate to that. I started my first business when I was 12, sold it to start this one when I was 18. Haven't looked back and just never wanted to work for someone and always wanted to help people and always find a way to innovate. Because like you said, you can be doing something and it's like, okay, you're making progress, but you're also burning the candle at both ends, which is, you know, it's cute when you're 18, but does it work at 28, 38, 48, 58, 68? No. You know, I've always asked myself, does this work times a thousand, times ten thousand? You know, post its. They work to about five or eight clients, you know, and then you need a CRM. And then, you know, certain things don't work at scale. And if you're, if you're thinking down the road, will it work at this? You know, maybe I should start saying, does this work times a million? Maybe I really should revisit it, you know, because I want to reach tens of millions of people. And.

It'S just interesting because there's so many things now, it's like I look back to what I had, you know, and even you, I'm sure going back 10 years ago, it's changed so much. Even in the last two to five years, there was SEO, wasn't really a thing. Websites, all these, they were there, but no one was going hard with them. Organic. I mean, we're talking about strategies with social media. This hasn't been around forever, but I love the fact that you talked about the relationships because I love reading turn of the century stuff, you know, how do they build these billion dollar companies with nothing we have now? People, relationships, and actually caring.

Yep. Amen.

Well, I want to ask you, out of all the people you've worked with, who is your biggest transformational story?

Sorry.

My biggest. So amongst my clients. Yes. Yeah. So we have a couple. We have a couple big wins. But there's two wins that I'm most proud of.

Actually. No, there's three. There's three. Although they would be indicative of some other clients that I've had. So I'm going to use each of these three as a representation of my entire client base as a whole, if that's okay. So one of my clients.

Actually we were buddies from university, he was one of my first clients ever. So thank God people trusted me back when I really had no right to be trusted. But he joined me literally in the first month or so of my business, I had already seen some success and I think that's why he was at least willing to give me a bit of trust. But at the time he was still working his.

9 to 5 job.

I think it was borderline dead end. I don't know if he was completely and utterly disgusted with it, but he definitely wanted to leave and he just didn't really know how. So we started building his business and I was helping him with sales and marketing and all those different things. And fast forward just six months he was able to quit his full time job, which at the time he was making good money like probably near 10k a month. But he was able to fully replace the salary that he was making at that point particular role entirely with what at the time was side hustle money and then became his full time money. And now he's actually doing around 30 ish, 40 ish K per month. He helps SaaS companies build sales process.

That was something that I was really proud of, not just because it was a friend of mine, but because it was someone who had trusted me really in the early days. And he was actually able to quit his full time job, which is a lot of people's goals. Someone else that I was really proud of was someone who literally gambled on me before he had earned any revenue. And that was really cool because he had already quit his job, he hadn't really succeeded in business yet and he was willing to take on a fairly good amount of investment to trust in someone, which pretty much forced him into debt. And from.

From when he began to 12 months into the experience with us, he was able to go from nothing to breaking over 100k per month.

Nice.

Without any ad spent, no ads, just having a really solid Facebook group, a really solid sales team, a really solid content creation process and a really good offer. Something that we worked on him with him over the course of 12 months. And then the coolest story that I would say I had less of a feel good story because she was already a killer, like Rio was already a badass. She had already built cool companies before, but she had always been relying more so on referrals. And.

With the pandemic, a lot of her events and speaking gigs and all that type of stuff, which had historically been quite effective at getting her clients kind of evaporated. So she came to us and she's like, I got this brand new offer. I don't think referrals are going to work for this offer. I don't have my typical marketing channels what do I do? And literally we helped her launch her product and within the first 30 days she closed $90,000 all from LinkedIn. That is to me, one of our cooler success stories. Just because we put this person with a brand new product in an un proven audience at an unproven price point, with a brand new channel for her and we were able to scale that to nearly 100k in a single month. So that was a huge win. That blew my mind. I didn't expect that at all. But sometimes our results surprised even me. Those three stories I will fondly remember for a long, long, long time. And I think my clients would as well. Chris, Desmond and Rhea. And they're just a microcosm of a greater ecosystem which are, are my private clients. Everyone has their own story, everyone has their own trials and tribulations and goals, but we love working with them and we're super stoked the fact that a lot of our clients have already had huge life transformational wins. So we're going to keep it going. It's only up from here.

Excellent. Well, thank you for sharing all of those.

Those are great stories. You know, whether someone's already established or not established, I always, I incorporate that because it's great to hear just what's possible no matter what stage you're at. You know, you don't need to go from 0 to 90k in one month just to have a successful business. You know, I love hearing the quick startups and you know, there's a lot of people who say, hey, they've been plugging away for seven and a half years and they've never dropped below this mark. Well, that's freaking great too, you know, or they got out of or like you were saying with the, the jobs, they stopped doing what they were hating after 20 years and now they love what they do regardless of how much they're making. I mean, all of those I think are great. So thank you for sharing multiple stories. I always love that. I got one more question before we go to the imperfect action round and thank our sponsor. It's the wheel or whatever. Do you want yellow or black?

New yellow.

Everyone keeps saying yellow. That's fine, that's your choice. I've just noticed a pattern here also, and no one has said black in probably the last 10 episodes. Yellow. My question for you is, what is a crazy dream you have that you haven't done yet outside of business? Like Heliski, Mount Everest or like going to spaceship or just something.

What do you, what do you enjoy? You want to scuba dive with sharks or.

There's so many. There's so many. Like, so the one that's been on my mind most recently is learning Spanish. I can speak three languages now. Learning Spanish would put me into the four languages, and that'd be pretty cool.

Aren't you studying Portuguese also?

Yeah, I'm. I wouldn't say I'm fluent in Portuguese because, like, if you put me beside four Brazilians and they're all talking to each other and they're using slang and they're speaking really fast, I start to just, like, lose. Lose it all. But, I mean, I've lived here in Brazil for almost eight months now. If I'm talking to someone, I can hold a conversation and we can talk for hours, and that's totally fine. So I'm pretty confident. Spanish is not super different from Portuguese, and I've studied it bits and pieces before. I think I'm moving to Mexico City actually, a month from now. Part of the reason why is because it'd be easier for me to achieve language acquisition if I can speak to locals. So, yeah, I think two months of private lessons and daily use with a bit of experience from the past will get me into a place where, you know, I'm pretty capable of Spanish. But I'm someone who likes to try to tackle on new things every year. A couple things, like this year, my projects were I want to become a very good volleyball player. I actually didn't play volleyball at all before this year, but I played it one time in January and I was like, whoa, this is pretty fun. And then ever since then, I started getting private instruction, private coaching. Same thing with hang gliding, which actually, that was a bit more of a childhood dream, wanting to fly, not just in a plane, but actually myself, like a bird. And that's something that I'm also getting private coaching for. It's cool. Brazil. The cost of living here, everything is much more affordable. So the dollar just goes a much longer way. And I'm sure next year there will be an entirely new host of things that I want to try on and just integrate into my life. But as it is right now, I'm always thinking about volleyball. I'm always thinking about Spanish and language acquisition. And to me, they're just inevitabilities because I've already put in the steps to go about securing them. A dream doesn't need to be wishful thinking. It can be reality if we follow the process and trust it.

I love that. One of the things I've always. I wanted to fly Also and breathe underwater. I think the wingsuits look cool.

Yeah, that, that one is the wingsuits thing that thousands of hours skydiving and.

That'S a little extreme, but still cool.

It is very, very cool. My instructor, my, my hand gliding instructor has actually done pretty much every air sport. He's been doing air sports for like 40 years now. He's also a big wave surfer and a three time national skateboarding champion. So he's one of those guys that's lived an interesting life, say the least. But.

Whenever I hear his stories about wingsuiting, I'm like, I don't know, I don't know about that.

For me you got plenty of time. And I gotta ask you because.

When were you in Toronto?

I left Toronto November of 2019.

No, 2020. I left Toronto in November of 2020.

Gotcha.

All right then. Because I'm looking and I might have to cross that out or something because your form said Toronto and you're like, yeah, here in Brazil. And you made the comment right before we started about riot.

Yeah.

That's cool though. I mean that's a perfect example of being able to do what you want when you want and run your company from anywhere in the world. Because why not?

I mean, like a big motivation for me to build such a delegated workforce with a lot of the day to day tasks being executable with or without me, is just because I wanted to go and live my life.

Good for you.

That was a huge motivating factor. I would say that's actually a much greater motivational factor than money. In fact, if I only ever made 15k per month for the rest of my life, which is still quite a lot, but I mean, for me it would be a downgrade, say the least. I would actually be very happy at that price point.

At that per month earning, if I still just got to live the lifestyle. So that's just my opinion.

Yeah, I can relate to that 100% because, you know, you only get so much time.

Exactly, exactly. So I suppose if anyone wants to find out more about me, if they want to learn a bit more about organic marketing and how it can really work, there's a couple resources that I do have that people can take advantage of. The first resource is actually my Facebook group. We have 4,500 people in it, totally free. And every single week I actually do host a live ask me anything as well as I teach a masterclass about something. Maybe it's Facebook groups one day, Maybe it's scaling LinkedIn the other maybe it's getting onto podcasts as a guest the next week, who knows? Depends on the week. Right? So lots of free giveaways there. If you're more interested in just learning more granular information about those three steps that I had said before, those three plus one steps. Actually, I do have a webinar which is 30 minutes long and it just goes deeper into the actual creation of this engine in a way which is hard to do in a podcast like this. And finally, if someone is finding, oh you know what, I don't really want to join a group that's too much effort. Or hey, I don't want to listen to a 30 minute webinar that's so much effort. I do have an option which is perfect for lazy people, actually a quiz. I've designed it so that literally within 5 answers you can get a customized report which tells you all the strengths in your organic plan acquisition system as well as all the weaknesses so that you can set out to improve. And within these five questions, I'm literally able to give you something that by itself could be transformational. So if you have even a minute, that quiz is well within your time frame. So different content for different people at different stages, as we talked about before.

Well, everyone's got a minute.

Exactly. So that asset, that quiz you can access@attractandscale.com organic. Very easy attract and scale and is spelled a n d attractandscale.com organic. Everything else I'll include in the show notes for easy access.

Excellent. Well, thank you for that. We're going to thank our sponsor and come back with the imperfect action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why I'm launching my new book@eapublishing method book.com so you can learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what? Don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having.

An idea and a possibility to actually.

Getting my book published.

Or Catherine, thank you for making my mom number one best selling author.

Or Mary Alice, what he got done.

For me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable John Cody. I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful.

In getting me where I needed to go with promoting my books. Rocio, there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else. Again, I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process. Adele, if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner. I can't make a higher recommendation for than to work with Mario Ficcini. He has been great for for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get your copy and I look forward to hearing your transformation as our next video success story. Once again, that's eapublishing method book.com all right, we are back with the imperfect action round. Lloyd, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Got three questions for you. 60 second or less answers. The first one is what is the fastest path to the cash?

Oh man. Fastest path to the cash. Know what it is that you're good at? Talk to your friends and family. What would they think that you know, you give really good advice on and then just coach on that type of thing. Go to Facebook, go onto Instagram, find some clients by posting some content, specifically solving those specific problems. Get some coaching clients. It's a fast path to success.

Excellent. Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

So it depends on where they are. The clients that I have which are more advanced, their biggest problem is not being willing to build a team so that they can offload some stuff. The beginners is that they try to do too many different things when in reality, just like doing one or two things really well is better than doing five things poorly.

Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value.

Over deliver.

In value over deliver? First of all, set expectations in the beginning and don't oversell. It's that's like a fast path to making people not happy about the experience. But then once you brought them in, over deliver, actually go above and beyond what it is that you've promised them in terms of client experience, in terms of the products, in terms of the offers, and they'll be a customer for life.

Excellent. What books would you recommend to Expert Authority World that have made a big difference in your life?

I always say this, but the Challenger Sale for me is the most impactful book I've ever had that I've ever read because it teaches people how to sell. Not by selling but teaching, but by selling, by teaching, by sharing with your prospect. Hey, there's a better way to do something. Let me show you how. If you can sell by showing and sharing, it's much better than selling by pressuring and pushing.

Love that. Appreciate it. Why don't you mention your website one more time?

For us, attractandscale.com is where you can just find me attractandscale.com Organic is the quiz that you can check out. It'll take a minute long and I also have a Facebook group that I'm going to drop to you in the show links and that way people can join there if that's the way in which they want to keep in touch.

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for the info. You definitely know what you're talking about, so appreciate everything you've shared. It's been a pleasure.

Amazing. Thanks for having me man. Really appreciate it.

All right Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless.

You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate qualified leads while increasing profit for you 24? 7 and if so, how well are you promoting it? With my new book, the Expert Authority Effect Publishing Method, I take you through my process step by step. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get started now. Once again, that's eapublishing method book.com thanks for listening to today's episode. I would love to know what you enjoyed most from it if you haven't done so already. I invite you to connect with me on my new LinkedIn. You can go to it directly at eainterviews.com LinkedIn Once again, that's eainterviews.com LinkedIn lastly, check out the full eainterviews.com site for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you on the next one.