0334 | Shelley Goldstein

Hi, I'm Shelly Goldstein. My website is Big Idea Company and I'm here on EA Interviews.

EA Interviews, episode 334, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week, join Mario Ficcini for today's Expert Authority effect interview. Expert Authority World. You hear me, you hear me on the mic. You see me, you watch me on eainterviews.com and Expert Authority TV. But have you considered speaking? Do you give presentations? Have you considered starting your own show? Maybe you want to. Maybe you really just have this heart, this desire to serve your audience, to serve your prospects, to serve your, your tribe. But maybe you're being held back. I will tell you first and foremost, I was very shy as a child and I got picked on. And it wasn't till about 9th grade when I even decided to do something about it. I wasn't in therapy. I didn't, and there's nothing wrong with it, but I wasn't doing that. There wasn't this big thing that happened. I wasn't doing self help. I was in freaking ninth grade. Now, I know some of your kids are freaking geniuses and you have them in doing all kinds of stuff younger as they should. I'm just saying I wasn't, but I got sick of being picked on and I was like, I'm not going through the rest of high school this way. So I go, what would I want if I had a magic wand and could do whatever I wanted? I was like, well, here's what I enjoy. And I started going in that direction. Come to find out there actually is books on it. And I just, I guess I just stopped caring. And it's real easy to say that, but how do you do that if you want to deliver your message and you want to break through, but you're afraid of speaking, if you're afraid of sharing that message? That's why I have Shelly Goldstein on today's episode. Because we're going to be talking about breaking through your fear of public speaking. And I'm going to bring her up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. And that's why I'm launching my new book to help you, regardless of where you think you your current writing abilities are. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com.

Here she is, ladies and gentlemen, Shelley Goldstein. Shelley, how are you feeling today?

I am feeling terrific, Mario. Thanks for having me.

Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm excited to hear what you have to say. For everyone in expert authority world.

That may not want to public speak, they might have a fear of it, or maybe they're doing a little of it, but they're just reserved and shy about it. I mean, whether it's the boardroom or addressing an entire auditorium, it doesn't really matter if you have any reservations, it's hurting your business, plain and simple. As far as I'm concerned, what would you say to someone who isn't feeling their full confidence in speaking publicly?

Well, you're right. It's a typical concern of many people. A fear of public speaking or the ability to even connect.

And the truth is, we. We do have it deep within us. We have our feelings and our beliefs.

So the work that I do is to help you connect with those feelings and be able to communicate.

And once you own that, because you own yourself, you own your identity.

You feel good, you actually feel good and enjoy speaking and communicating, and others can feel what you're feeling just the same. That's how we connect.

How do you help someone connect and feel good about themselves in public speaking?

Well, I use these games. They're called Ultra speaking, and it's a gamified approach to public speaking. So think about it. When we're kids and we're young, we have this beginner's mindset. There's very little judgment or hesitation. A bunch of kids get, hey, let's go into the playground, and we run and we jump and we play, or we run off that dock into the water. We usually don't think about it. Maybe some of us do, but most of us just have that beginner's mindset. Well, as adults, as you explained, when you got older, even in high school, you were like, wow, I'm terrified. I'm shy. I'm going to change this. Well, let's go back to games.

And.

Express ourselves and play the games. And all of a sudden you're thinking, I'm playing a game. I got nothing to lose here. And when you start doing the work through the games and the exercises, they start unlocking different parts of yourself. And you realize that felt really good. Why am I holding back? What am I doing? And the whole idea of that, that whole process shows you that you can enjoy it, that it's actually freeing, whether you're playing a game or speaking in front of an audience of a thousand people.

I think games are a lot of fun. And one of the things, you know, early on, like I was saying I didn't have self help books. And by all means, if you're listening to this and you have kids that are six, get, get people, get them started. Get people like they're adults. Get anyone started younger because it carries on. I've been thinking about some of the stuff. I started my first business when I was 12, and I was thinking recently the stuff I was learning at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, like I was already incorporating it in my business at 12, 13, 14, 15. And I'm a lot of it I'm still doing now. But I think back to like, where was the origin of this? And I'm like, wow, I was that young, so by all means get them started. I'm just saying I didn't have the self help books, but I was just sick of it. So I did turn it into a game. And I remember just asking my friends, literally, if you could change one thing about me, what would it be? And I'll never forget one of them, I was in band class and my good friend Alexa and she says, well, you kind of lean over and hunch when you walk. Maybe try walking straighter. I was like, sounds good. You know what I mean? There wasn't any rhyme or reason. It was just like, tell me your perspective on me. So that week I just practice.

Better posture, I guess you would call it walking straighter. And then it was maybe speak up when you talk a little bit more. And you know what I mean? It was just you change one degree over the course of one thing a week, a day, even one thing a year. It's kind of a slow pace, but whatever. Over a lifetime, why not, you know? So I love the idea that you incorporate games. What do you start people off as far as the activity to take that first step? What's the game you have them play?

Well, Ultra speaking started as a card game and was actually one on one. And Covid kind of forced us all to look at things differently. So the founders, the brilliant founders, Michael Gendler and Tristan Dimontabello and came up with a virtual aspect to it. And it's all digital, it's online. And the beautiful thing about that is we can.

Through zoom, convert our screens and run through the different games. So there's over a dozen games and each one is designed to help with a different aspect of speaking. So the first thing is to create a safe space.

And play something that we call ironically podcaster game.

Where we alternate speaking.

But the idea is it's one voice. So if you're a listener, it's one voice, one thought process. But many of us are contributing to that thought.

And it's a fun way to kind of engage people, get them to relax. It's part of a group environment. Safe group environment usually gets people to go, okay, this is. Okay, I can do this. And then we drill into other games based on certain aspects of speaking that we want to deal with, whether it's musicality or working on breath and pause.

Oh, tell me about the. Tell me more about the musicality.

Musicality. There is a game called Conductor, which I absolutely love. And. And basically, if you were to think in music, scales.

You know, you run the scales in music. Well, we have scales to our voice. So if five is our natural speaking voice, on a scale of one to ten, this might be my one, and maybe this is my ten.

So you do the scales. This is my one, this is my two, this is my three. So on, so on. And how it works is the game has an image. It gives you a topic. You start speaking, and the number comes up. If it's a nine, give it your nine. If there's a two, speak at a level two. And the game forces you to reach these numbers, to reach that energy, that emotion, that excitement.

And once you've experienced the full range of 1 to 10 by force, if you will, by the game, you naturally find your range. Maybe you're only a four to a six. That's fine. If you're Tony Robbins, you're probably at a 9, 10. That's where you're at. So it's that exploration and that experience. And some people are surprised. I never knew I could be a 10. And it unlocks all this type of excitement behind speaking.

Well, I like that, because if someone is naturally 4, 5, and 6 in this scenario, maybe they want to be louder, but maybe they also want to be quieter. You know, the quiet person might want to go up to a 3, 4, or 5, and the loud person might want to learn how. Well, depending on their personality type, they might want to become a 4 or 5 or 6, or at least know the situation that they're doing this in. Because I've noticed the personality types also tend to be their speaking style. If they're more shy and reserved, they're also quieter. If they're more outgoing, they're louder. But I'm not saying one is better than the other.

I'm both. And if I was here going, okay, Shelly, on today's show, we're gonna be this would be horrible and I apologize. Expert authority world. I had to make the point. But also, if I'm speaking too quietly all the time, you might be like, dude, this dude's putting me to sleep. You have to know the situation in which to use that. So do you have a technique? First off, how do you make someone realize where they're at and admit it if they're trying to deny it?

That's so interesting. I mean, the word make is challenging. I don't know that we could make anybody do anything they don't want to. And you talked about reaching this range, like the right moment. You're 100% right. There is a moment.

To project at a loudness or.

Use a soft spoken word to perhaps draw people in. What we do through the games is getting you to speak from how you feel. How do I feel about this? And organically, that energy is connected to the emotion. And you may feel, I'm mad and I want to be loud.

And that's how we communicate as opposed to feeling. We're forced to always be at a certain level.

And to your point, if you're shy, maybe you're in the 1 to 5 range, but it's that range. I don't believe that. Whether you're a shy person or an introvert or extrovert, if you slam your hand in the car door, you pretty much are going to have a shocking reaction. I doubt somebody's going to be like, you know, whisper.

Oh, darn, that was unfortunate.

Exactly. So if you think of that emotion, you think of that energy that comes from how you feel in that moment that's compelling. Now you're sharing something if you feel it. I feel it.

Yeah. It's interesting because the people who speak louder.

Whenever they're quieter, you almost ask like, is something wrong? But for the quiet folk, I'm thinking of a couple in particular. They're, they're cool as cucumbers. You know, nothing phases them. They're just, they're there, they're enjoying the party, sitting in the corner, just observing everyone. That's me sometimes. But it's interesting when they're traditionally quiet and they never speak up. See, I can fluctuate it. Like right now I would like to think I sound normal. And you know, we're having a great conversation, which I think we are, but they're just like always quiet. But then when they get a little bit heated, it's. I gotta be honest, it's kind of fun to just like, oh, well, is this, is this passionate? Are you Passionate about this subject. And it's like they're trying to be louder and they're trying to be angry and they're trying to be just like more. But they're still 3, 4, and 5. They're still just not over the top with it. And.

I don't know, I'm thinking of some people particularly. It's entertaining for nothing else, but I know that's like their max. So as far as being having a fear of it, if someone's an entrepreneur, entrepreneur or CEO, they needed this in the boardroom. What if they are the quieter who can't get past the 3, 4, or 5?

Or how would you say to break free from that and just be able to command the room? Because there's a difference from I'm speaking at a normal level like I am right now, and I hope I am. I'm doing my best. You're speaking at a normal level. Everyone can hear you. To literally commanding the room. And all eyes are on you and you're sharing your message.

You can command the room at any decibel.

Great. Expert authority. Insight.

Okay, that's true. That's very true. I was just making an example to.

So you can command the room at any point.

Expression.

Sure.

It's the way you are expressing yourself. Freedom of expression. And we feel we have to wear these Personas for on camera, for on stage. And we have a different Persona with our friends when we're casually socializing. And we have a different Persona when we're at school. No, we are who we are all the time. And there's appropriate moments and there's appropriate audiences, but you still need to be your authentic self. So the games are played to challenge you to get to that range. It's uncomfortable. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable. If you only speak at a 5, scream at a 10. And just what does that feel like? You may be fine there and realize you've unlocked something about yourself that you haven't been able to express yourself openly and honestly. And at the same time, you may say, well, I'm really only at a seven. And that's where I'm comfortable. That is fine as long as that is where you have explored. But we don't know unless we get there.

So it's more about being comfortable in your own skin than being at any certain level, vocally or volume wise, I should say.

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

So you're sharing a lot of great insights on how to change it and amplify and lower. Lower key it. That's a new word. I just Made up. I know it's wrong, but whatever. What would you. Let's take it back to the beginning with. If someone is just afraid to even start.

They don't want to play the games, they don't want to do any of this, but they do want to share.

What do you find is holding people back that just have a death grip of public speaking? Maybe it's worse than death. They'd rather die than public speak. It is their number one fear. How do you break them free from that? If they're just resilient, not resilient, that's a good thing. If they're resistant to everything you're trying with them.

Have you had any clients that you. They just have zero desire whatsoever, but someone encouraged them, or is there always at least a seed of I want to become better, I just don't know how?

Well, the first question I would ask if I sense resistance is.

You signed up for this course, for this training.

So you're here. Let's guess that you want to do the work and you were uncomfortable before you got here. It was uncomfortable hitting sign up, register, pay book, a session with Shelly. So we're here. Let's let it rip.

And usually they'll sit there and they'll be like, all right, I'm here. And I create a safe environment. Hey, I mean, right now I'm live with your audience, but when I work with clients, it's one on one. It's just us in the Zoom room. We're not recording. Nobody else is here. What happens in Zoom stays in Zoom. And you have the moment to say whatever you want. Go wherever you want. Scream if you want.

And invariably, I could say this with a hundred percent certainty.

It unlocks a magic. And you're like, God, that felt so good.

I got to be myself.

Those moments give me the chills. Those moments make my work all the more honorable and engaging and exciting because it's really tapping into that. It's really, for me, giving them the moment to let go.

And be themselves and have full, full self expression. That's my goal.

What would you say are the, let's say, top three things? If there's more, you can say them. But what would you say are the top reasons that people are afraid of public speaking?

One is they don't feel they have anything of value to say. Nobody cares what I think. I have a stupid question.

Not true. Because invariably when you're in a conference or in a Q and A and someone asked the question, like, yeah, that's the question. I was going to ask. So right there you've proved yourself wrong.

People have a fear of public speaking, as you mentioned in the beginning, some more so than fear of death.

There are many people that have to communicate complex information.

To the layman. Like if you're a tech designer or developer and you have to relay information to your team, they don't know what you're talking about. How can we get clear, concise content and one central idea communicated to anybody?

People say they forget their script, their lines. The slide didn't come up. What do I do? What do I say? All those things. Recovery, speaking on the fly.

That's what we address. And the methodology of Ultra speaking the games is to speak before you think.

Kind of an interesting process.

Yeah, it's interesting you bring these up because I think everyone has something to say, but it's that hesitation. And do you know where it stems from? I mean, if they don't think they have something to say. Or do you. Do you think it has to do deal with self worth to a degree?

Absolutely. And it's also a trust in ourselves. Do I trust that what I'm saying has value? Do I trust that I can say something honestly about what I feel or that makes sense to the audience?

Okay, yeah. Because I think everyone has something to say. And I think it's that grade school thing where it's like you're asked to read and since you've never read in your life before, everyone laughs at you. And I don't know where it stems from, but it's interesting and I love helping people break through just in all areas of their life. But I mean, it makes sense. If you go to do something for the first time, you're not going to be good at it. Heck, take podcasting. Oh, what if my first episode isn't great? I'll give you a tip. Your first hundred are probably not going to be great, but you do it anyway. Well, that's fine when you're older, but if you have all this head trash from a child, or even as a child. Well, I got ridiculed in first, second and third grade. Well, yeah, of course you don't want to say anything. By fourth, two, three more years pass and now you're the one in high school who doesn't want to be the one talking to anyone. That's not good for anyone. And the other point you made about the communication, I think there's a ton of people, whether they're good speakers, inflection, they know all the little things. They don't Know how to communicate crap. They're trying to convey a thought to the team. They're trying to convey it to a client. Here's a big one. Convey your message and unique selling proposition to your prospect without being on the phone with them, without having them in front of you, without them in the room. You want to know how good you are at marketing and selling and refining your message? Do it to a bunch of complete strangers. You can't interact with real time. If you can't make your point there in a headline or a sub headline, you've lost. So I really appreciate you talking about this because there's so many people on different levels, I mean, if they don't want to speak, they need to get past that. But even once you do, I know a ton of people. I love speaking. That's good for you. You're not good at it and you don't have much to say when you do. You're just, you don't have a fear of it. You're past the first hurdle. I still have no clue what the heck you're saying to, you know, give me your elevators. Elevator pitch. Well, do we have 35 minutes? Because that's how long they need. What would you say to someone who can't give a 30 second elevator pitch?

Interesting topic. Because I work on that very thing with my clients. We work on a 30 second elevator pitch. And you know what? Try to do it without telling me your name, what your profession is, or your URL of where I can find you.

And the people that have the most compelling elevator pitches connect with a story.

And they will always remember how you feel, how you made them feel. A Maya Angelou quote. It's not what they may not remember what you say, but people will remember how you made them feel. You start with a compelling story. I sucked at giving interviews. My first hundred interviews were so bad.

It was embarrassing. But here I am. I worked at it, I stayed with it. And through playing games.

And learning how to speak through games.

I learned to have fun in interviews. And here I am today having fun on interviews.

I'm a public speaking coach.

I like that.

And we play games. That would be my pitch.

I like that it's clear and concise and you obviously have refined it and have the emotion in it to it too. There's some people that just say it, even if it's a okay message. Not bad, but not fantastic. There's just no emotion. There's no energy behind it. It's like, I help people set up for parties.

Do you Even, like, parties.

You know, I love that you say playing games, but there is something to be said about the energy behind the message. So I appreciate everything you've been sharing. And you. I just felt like you had so many stories when I was asking you, what do you work on with your clients? How do you walk them through this? And I could feel that you really enjoy giving them that breakthrough, really giving them that transformation. Who would you say is your biggest success story to date?

I had the rare privilege of running a workshop for the Girl Scout Leadership Group.

30 young adults between ages of 14 and 18.

And to see them engage, some of them were, I learned after the session, were terrified to speak up.

We're nervous about going on job interviews and college interviews. And by playing the games, all these young people engaged. The shyest ones raised their hand to volunteer multiple times.

And to learn that at such a young age and to carry that forward and know that their takeaways were. I can speak up. I can communicate my true self. I can have freedom of expression. I can take a pause when they ask me a question if I don't know the answer to. Think about how I might answer that. The Girl Scout Leadership Group, and it was boys and girls, was probably my greatest success today to see young people really, really embody this work.

I'm really happy to hear that because, like I was saying earlier, I think there's a lot of people who use. They're just kids or she's just a kid. He's just a kid. Well, when are they going to start? I think it's really great that you were able to help them at a younger age, because they do carry it with them the rest of your life. I mean, I'm a huge believer in that. It's not even believer in it. It's a fact. I mean, it's a whole other topic. But I'm glad you're doing that, so thank you. I have one more question for you before we.

It's gonna be fun. You're gonna like this. I have one more question for you before we thank our sponsor. And it's what I was hiding from you right before we started. It is.

No. Whoa, here. Oh, there we go. That's a good spin. It's the wheel of whatever you want. Yellow or black?

Yellow.

Oh.

All right. My question for you is, who is someone that you would love to work with that you haven't been able to yet? And there's no one off limits whether you think they're unattainable, celebrity, big business person, or whoever.

Seth Godin.

Is a brilliant.

Thought leader in what he does. I would love to work with him as a communicator.

Because what he says is incredible. How he says it.

I would love to challenge that and take it to a new level.

Excellent. I do like him. Great answer. All right, we are going to thank our sponsor and come back for the imperfect action run. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why I'm launching my new book@eapublishingmethodbook.com so you can learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having.

An idea and a possibility to actually getting my book published. Or Catherine, thank you for making my mom number one best selling authority.

Or Mary Alice, what he got done.

For me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable John Cody. I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful in getting me where I needed to go with promoting my books.

Rocio, there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process. Adele, if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner.

I can't make a higher recommendation than to work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario. Hey, their words, not mine. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get your copy and I look forward to hearing your transformation and is our next video success story. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Shelley, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Always.

I got three questions for you. Rapid fire answers, 60 second or less. The first one is what is the fastest path to the cash?

Believing that you already have it.

Very good. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Not being afraid to express themselves and share stories so they connect on a human level because we're humans doing business with other humans, not machines.

Oh, I like that a lot. Number three what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Let your customers know your clients know that you value them, that they bring you as much gratitude and joy and that you can improve their lives.

And.

Make them the best they can be.

Very good.

What books would you recommend to Expert Authority World that have helped you?

The four Agreements. Very simple.

That's Don Miguel Ruiz.

Correct.

Excellent. That is. That is a good one. Well, thank you so much for your insight. Where would you like people to learn more?

Well, you could stop by my website, Big Idea Company all spelled out.com TV is in television and also look up Shelley Goldstein at LinkedIn and I have all the information there. And you can also find me@ultraSpeaking.com to learn about how you can play games, to send an email and ask me some questions.

Excellent. Well, thank you again, Shelly. It's been a pleasure.

Ah, pleasure's been mine. Thank you Mario. Enjoyed this thoroughly.

You're very welcome. And Expert Authority World, we have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless.

You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate qualified leads while increasing profit for you 24 7? And if so, how well are you promoting it? With my new book, the Expert Authority Effect Publishing Method, I take you through my process step by step. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get started. Now, once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.Com thanks for listening to today's episode. I would love to know what you enjoyed most from it if you haven't done so already. I invite you to connect with me on my new LinkedIn. You can go to it directly at eainterviews.com LinkedIn Once again, that's eainterviews.com LinkedIn. Lastly, check out the full eainterviews.com site for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you on the next one.