0357 | Steven "Captain Hoff" Hoffman

Hello, my name is Steve hoffman. I'm the CEO of Founderspace and you are listening to EA Interviews.

EA Interviews episode 357, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week. Join Mario Ficcini for today's Expert Authority effect interview. Expert Authority World. Have you ever thought about starting a startup? How about surviving a startup? What does it entail? What are all the pitfalls? What are all the benefits for it? I am super excited to have Steve Captain Hoff Hoffman on today's episode with us and he is the author of Surviving a Startup and he has worked with companies such as Forbes, Entrepreneur Investors Business Daily Inc. Fast Company, you, story, Walt Disney, History, Intel, EA Viacom, Sega, Universal Studios, Kodak and many more. I am so excited to have him here because there are so many people that want to get into business but don't know really what it entails. And he hasn't just done this once, he's done it multiple times. He's the CEO of Founder Space and he's worked with like huge companies. Not just I'm a serial entrepreneur and I'm on my 12th entrepreneur and it's just nothing that ever took off. So he's gonna be talking about all of this and more and I'm excited to bring him up. Right right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. And that's why I'm launching my new book to help you, regardless of where you think your current writing abilities are. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Steve Captain Hoff Hoffman. Steve, how are you feeling today, Mario?

I am feeling great.

I am glad to hear that because you have such an impressive, I would say, I guess I could call it a resume. But I look at the one sheet and you know, I was telling you before we started, when I saw what you've done and who you've helped, I was like, absolutely. So tell me, how do you survive a startup and how do you get in league with these massive companies? And I also, you know, let's start there. I'm not going to ask you five questions at once. It's an interview, not a.

So surviving a startup is tough. The majority of startups out there fail. That's just a fact. But every entrepreneur is optimistic. Every entrepreneur thinks they're going to succeed, but they don't, because they make a lot of common mistakes. Now I know I've been a startup founder, I founded three venture funded companies in Silicon Valley, two bootstrapped companies, and my most recent venture founder. Space is an incubator that works with hundreds of startups all over the world. We work in 22 countries right now. So I see what these entrepreneurs go through and I will tell you the number one reason they fail. The number one reason entrepreneurs fail, and this will seem counterintuitive, is that they believe in their product or service too much. And when reality doesn't conform to their beliefs, they refuse to change.

Ouch. But I appreciate you telling me, saying that. Honesty. I was just sharing with someone a lot of what's been happening to me personally, professionally, everything, it's reminding me of the book who Moved My Cheese? And just in the world and life and whatever, I mean, we're all going through stuff, but you're hitting the nail on the head because why do you feel so many entrepreneurs don't change or wanna adapt? They're just hanging on so tight to that point of, you know, I got a visual image just now of someone hanging onto a rope and you know, their hands are bleeding and it says sometimes the best thing you can do is just to let go.

Absolutely. You know, I have entrepreneurs who stick with the business for years and years and it's going nowhere, like it is going nowhere fast. And they, they feel like they're Sisyphus rolling this boulder up this mountain only to have it roll back down and they have to roll it up again. And when they come to me often they'll say, captain off. Tell me, can I, you know, do you think I should quit my business? And I look at them and I say, absolutely almost every time. Now I'm not a masochist, I, or a sadist. I don't want to torture these poor entrepreneurs, but what they're doing is they realize it's not working, but they're afraid to quit what they're trying and attempt something new. And the reason for that is that they, it's a mindset thing. They have identified themselves with what they're working on with their product or their service. And they think that if that fails, if their idea fails, they have failed. But in reality, you aren't your ideas, you aren't your product or service. If it's not working, the best thing you can do. And what the really smart entrepreneurs do is they recognize it at the earliest possible time, they figure out what they weren't doing. Right. And they either pivot or ditch it entirely and start over and try something new. And they'll keep trying to trying things over and over and over until they hit it. Because it's not easy figuring out a business model that really takes off. Like we hear about these unicorns. It's really, really tough.

So I'm playing devil's advocate for half a second here, maybe a full minute.

Do you always tell someone to stop what they're doing? Because I have two schools of thought with this. One is, yeah, you can stop and do the next thing. And maybe it wasn't a good fit, but what if they just don't have the mindset develop and they go from one thing to the next thing to the next thing, like nothing's working. And really it's not the business model, it's them. How do you differentiate? You're in the wrong business model, this isn't going to take off, or you're not equipped fully. Nothing you do is going to be working yet.

There are certain entrepreneurs who are like that. They literally can't execute. And, you know, I'll tell them if I think it's them. And usually I can tell right away because I don't just look at them and I will ask them, like, what have you done in the past? And if they don't tell me anything that succeeded, anything that they've really made an impact in, that's a red flag. But what's even a bigger red flag is when I look at the people that gathered around them, are these a list players? Are these amazing people with real talent to actually build and create something and bring it to life? Or have they surrounded themselves with mediocre people? So if they have mediocre people around them, I don't care if they have the best idea in the world. Ultimately they're not going to be able to execute. They will drop the ball at some point, somebody else will pick it up, run with it, and, you know, score. So that's what I look at. Wow.

I so appreciate you for saying that because we've heard for years you're the equivalent of the five people you surround yourself with. And I think that's always a.

I don't want to say a tale. I know it's true, but I think it's speaking to beginner entrepreneurs who are looking to develop something. They just don't know where to go. Would you agree?

I would agree. Like I like to say, a great entrepreneur has one trait, one trait that matters more than anything else. And that single Trait is leadership. Can you bring together the people to fulfill your vision? Because if you can't do that, nothing else matters. You will. No single person builds a billion dollar company. Never happens. Even a smaller company, you, you need other talented people around you. So when, when entrepreneurs go out there to start their business, I say forget about the idea. You know, you ideas are just starting points. Forget about raising capital, you're not going to raise any at the beginning. Forget about everything else. Don't even make a product. Spend 80% of your time going after the best people you can get on board that really share a passion with you and want to change the world in a certain area. If you can do that, your chance of success goes up exponentially.

And I love that you're saying that because I feel like it's only been told to surround yourself with other business owners for networking purposes. I've never really heard it say in this context, or maybe it's just hitting me now from your own internal team, there's the people who never build the team and that caps them. But then like you're saying you can have the greatest idea in the world or the greatest heart in the world, but you're never going to be able to get through it because you're bottlenecked with who you surround yourself internally.

Exactly. So that's the starting point. Like if you're beginning a company, focus on the people. Once you get the people in place, you don't even have to have an idea. You honestly can pick an area that all of you are interested in making an impact in. That could be the fishing industry, that could be telecom, that could be the restaurant food industry. You pick an area that you really think, wow, we can innovate, we can break through, we can change this industry. And then you go deep. So the second thing entrepreneurs should do is take this amazing team and it can be three, four, five people and you go into this business and you figure out what that business needs. What are the people, your customers ultimately in that business? What do they lack? What aren't they getting from the world around them? What can you do so much better than anybody else that they, that right now would unleash what I call a pool of pent up demand. Because it's not your idea that matters. It's that you go into the real world and tap into demand for something people need.

How do you figure that out if that's not your strength?

Yeah, a lot of entrepreneurs have this trouble. They're like, you know, how do I know if there's great demand out there for what? My crazy idea is to start this company. And I tell them, simple, go out, talk to a hundred potential customers, the exact target that you think you're going to sell to, and ask them. And I've told an entrepreneur this and they come back to me and they said, captain Hoff, I just talked to 100 potential customers and all of them said, wow, that's a really interesting idea. Come back when it's ready and we'll try it out. And you know what I tell them? I tell them you're dead in the water, you're done, forget about that idea, throw it out the window. And they're like, what? A hundred people said they're interested. I go, they were blowing you off. When they tell you, oh, that's interesting, come back later, they're telling you they don't need it, you know what you need to see from those people? When you go out and present what you're going to build for them, you need to see them say, not, ah, interesting, come back later, you need to hear them say, oh my God, I need that right now. How can I get it? What can I do? Can I pay you money? Can you get in here? Can I be the first one to have it? If you don't get that type of reaction, you really don't have a business. Think about yourself like you're a busy person. People approach you all the time, like with different things and you, you know in your head like what your priorities are. And most people have five priorities and three that they really, really care about. Now if they approach you with something that isn't in that top five list, you'll be like, oh, that's interesting, come back later. But you're not going to buy that product.

That is a really great point and I want to ask you about that prioritization. If it's outside of that, how do you, how have you find it's best to keep tabs on if it shifts. So for example, we both have, have great books and you know, we launched them at some point that moved up on the priority scale from other things we were doing.

How have you find to keep tabs? Like if it's not good right now, maybe three, six, 12 months later, and I know the answer is something in follow up, but there's a million and one ways to do that. What have you found works best? Just to, you know, genuinely serve people, but you know, talk to them when it's the time most relevant.

So this is the thing entrepreneurs forget. They'll go out and engage with a lot of customers at the beginning. They'll figure out what they need, they'll build the product and then they'll launch it. And you know, at a certain point you are right, things change, priorities change, needs change. You know, we had Covid come along, everybody's needs suddenly changed. What they were doing, how they were doing business. You need to have not a once, a one time encounter with your customers. You need to have what we call a relationship. That means you are in constant communication with them. It's not even following up, it's like constantly engaging with them, seeing how they're using your product. You know, they may end up using your product as you start to build it in a totally different way than you expected. And it's this dynamic relationship between you and your customer that you have to nurture because what you are doing is every time they engage with your product, you have the chance to gain information, gain insights into what they're, what they need, what they're using, how it works. And you can then chart your course and how you develop that product. So you look at great companies out there, like really amazing companies like Apple or Google or Microsoft, they are constantly develop, you know, they're reinventing themselves. You have to do the same thing.

That is great advice there. And you're right because I think some people do a bad job at follow up. Some people do an okay job. But there's always seems to be these superstars who, it's just like they're not even in the same realm of, you know, oh, I called them or I emailed them, they're doing such out of the box stuff and it's, you know, their business. You can tell that's why it's working.

Absolutely. And I have some other rules for entrepreneurs like to really know. Like if you want, if you want to build, I fund and I work with a lot of venture capitalists in Silicon Valley, you know, startups that you read about, like the unicorns, the ones that grow exponentially. So if you want, if this is your target, if it's not a slow growth business, there are certain criteria you need to hone in on. So number one, when you come up with an idea, you need to think about the business model. And I will tell you, if you look out there in the real world, there are certain business models that are common to all these exponential growth companies. And one of those is recurring revenue. This means when you get a customer, they don't buy your product once and then they disappear and you don't see them again. That's a really hard model to sustain and grow because it costs a lot to get a customer. Customer acquisition is like one of the most expensive things a company does. That and human resources. So when you get a customer, you need to not to get that customer and engage them. So they are continually engaging with your product or service and every time they engage, they are gaining value and then they are giving you value. Essentially you are earning money. Look at Amazon, you know, they don't make a lot on every single sale. They make a small amount. But you buy so many products over such a long period of time, they make an enormous amount off you. What does that mean? They have all this extra money that they can acquire more customers. Do R and D, launch new services, improve. That is where the gold is. It's true of Amazon, it's true of Google, it's true of Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter. All these big companies have recurring revenue that's number one. And number two, they lock in their customers. They basically get it so that their customers never want to leave their product or service. They are always using it.

In the example of Amazon, you're referring to prime, not only is it a great value add, but you got the MRR going in there, you know, another additional income source. But additionally, I did look one time like when I transitioned over from just normal buying to prime buying, I'm like, oh yeah, it's two to three times more buying.

Oh yeah, because you get a lot more value when you're a Prime member. And Amazon. Jeff Bezos was really smart. What he did is he said, you know, all these e commerce sites look the same at the beginning. They all offer products. You can buy them online. People can switch between sites really easily. How do I keep my customer? What he realized is I have to not just offer a service, a buying service, I have to build an ecosystem. So by ecosystem he built out this platform where it isn't just Amazon selling you products. He has this huge number of other companies selling through Amazon. So when you come to Amazon, you can find virtually anything. And this was his genius creating this ecosystem. So the more buyers he attracted on, the more people wanting to buy products, the more sellers wanted to come on because, wow, all these buyers are on Amazon. We should be on Amazon. And the more sellers, the more buyers it feeds itself. And then Jeff took it to another level and he said, I'm going to make it so easy for our customers. I'm going to put them first. So what he did is he said, I'm Going to make returning products easy?

No.

You know, other e commerce sites at the beginning made it hard. They hid the return link. They made it really hard because they lost money on returns. Jeff said, no, if my customers want it, I'm going to make it so simple to return products. And what do you do? You go back to Amazon and you buy more products because it's easy to return them.

You're satisfied, you're happy, you're elated. Delighted.

Delighted. He made shipping faster. He offered all these other services, movies and sports and music and he just keeps piling it on there so that this ecosystem creates so much value and is so simple that you don't think of shopping anywhere else.

Yeah, it's impressive when a company that's not designed isn't known for shipping. Like you think of FedEx, DHL, Yellow, UPS, they're shipping companies, they're logistic companies, even the United States Postal Office, Postal Service, when they're doing a better job at their own game, that's when you know it's like, okay, game changer, right?

So Amazon is basically taking the over shipping, right, for, for that, for all E commerce. They're, they. Jeff Bezos said we're going to do everything better, right? So we're going to speed up shipping. We're going to be faster than UPS, we're going to be faster even than FedEx and cheaper than these alternatives. And he's doing it by automating and scaling this whole business, using big data to predict what people will buy so he can ship those products in advance, like in your city. He knows how many people are buying certain razor blades every day so he can ship them ahead of time. That's cheaper than they're already waiting for. People, they're on their way to you.

Yeah, it's impressive and the innovation has continued through it. And you know, like with our books, it started out as a bookstore and now they have everything but now they're the number one place to purchase books. So you know, is it safe to say your books on Amazon, it's surviving.

A startup is definitely on Amazon and you know Amazon accounts for most sales of most books in the world. So there you have to be on Amazon, you have no choice. And it's not just true of Amazon. If you look at all the major players out there, they're using the same strategy, whether it's Salesforce with their ecosystem and all their third party developers. You know, you're going to go for Salesforce because they have this such a rich ecosystem. You know, Facebook with all their apps and other stuff, they've all plugged that in Google. Same thing with their. It just goes on and on. So when you're doing a startup, you really, I tell people, don't launch products or services. Launch platforms by platforms. Basically, a platform is where you engage all the parties involved in whatever value you're creating and you give value to all the parties. And the more they participate on your platform, the more value each of them gets out of it.

You have that synergistic effect. And the rising tide raises all ships. Everyone wins in the process.

Exactly. So by making your customers get more value every time they engage with you, by making the other parties, third party vendors or other people creating software like Apple does, they have this ecosystem, right? All these third party developers are making money within Apple's ecosystem and that gives Apple a huge advantage.

Yeah, they took it on the soft, I guess I'll call it software because I can't think of what else to say. The website, you know, itunes. Yeah, they had it on the software side as well as the hardware side. You know, big thanks to them for creating. I, maybe they didn't create podcast, but they severely popularized it with the podcast and itunes and all that different stuff, what seems like decades ago. But that's another example of what you're talking about. They were like, oh, we have people that are buying our stuff. Well, let's expand into this, this, this. And you know, another great example, the monthly recurring revenue. Itunes is huge. When they started, you know, it used to be you'd buy the CD or whatever and people would, you know, were just taking MP3s. They go, you know what, we're gonna charge you a dollar a song. Which I don't even think is a deal because you could buy the whole CD cheaper. But the convenience factor, oh, it's only a buck, it's only a buck, it's only a buck.

It's only a buck. And you don't want every song on the album for most albums, right? People want one or two songs that they really care about in the album. The rest they don't need. So it was a bargain in that sense. Now, the genius of Steve Jobs, when he started Applesysm, he saw the ecosystem play, right? You mentioned it. Itunes, right? He saw, I can create an ecosystem around music where I make it so much easier for people to consume music and manage their music than anybody else, that all these other MP3 players I can dominate. Now, Steve Jobs didn't come up with these products out of thin air. Like what what he did with almost all of his products is he was a demand hunter. So by demand hunter, this is what I tell entrepreneurs to do in my book. I'm like, don't think of just making a product like that you think would be cool. Hunt for the demand. So Steve Jobs, like, looked out in the world and he said, oh, there's all these MP3 players out there already. These things are selling like hotcakes. And I think this is just the beginning, but I think we could improve upon this. I think we could do it so much better than these other players out there. And then he designed, you know, the first ipod. And not just the hardware. Right. But the whole software and everything to go with it. Put it out there and redefine that industry. That is what great entrepreneurs do.

Yeah. Thousand songs in your pocket. Not something you plug into, something that's, you know, not cohesive. I mean, it's impressive. Same thing with the iPhone.

The other MP3 players at the time were difficult to use. They were clunky. He made it beautiful and streamlined.

Yeah. Even though some of the other ones had more memory and could store more songs, they weren't marketed right and they weren't intuitive.

Yes.

I want to ask you about your book. What inspired you to write it and how has it helped your business since you've launched it?

So when I wrote Surviving a Startup, I wanted to convey all the things I had learned, like, from all my startups. And I'll tell you, some of my startups were big successes, others were brutal. They were really hard. So I know what it's like when an entrepreneur is out there and they're struggling and they're banging their head against the wall and they feel like, oh, my God, I can't get, you know, can't get anywhere with this. So I wanted to put that personal knowledge in there. And then my experience also mentoring all these entrepreneurs because I'm with them every day. Like, I've just with an entrepreneur this week and his, like, he's such a passionate guy. He's such an amazing guy. He has put everything he has into this product. Like, literally, he can't pay his rent this month. Like, he is. He's going to be kicked out. He's going to be homeless at the end of the month.

That's my.

He's. No, it's not good. But he's still trying. The problem is, you know, I tried to help introduce him to a lot of investors. You know, I like to co invest with other investors because that's what Smart investors do. You don't trust just your own judgment. Get all the smartest people around you again, just like an entrepreneur should. And you make that decision together, all these brains analyzing it. So we are looking at this company and we're like, the founder is amazing, like absolutely amazing. But the company isn't solving a really high value problem. They are solving a problem. It's not a big problem for people what they're solving. So we can't invest. And I have spent a lot of time with him, trying to educate him that look, you need to totally change your business. Like I don't care, you know, you need. I told him today, I said go get a job, part time job, full time job, whatever it takes, you're a great entrepreneur. But this product isn't it. You've got to revamp, rethink the direction you're headed and you need more time.

So that's good. You're open and honest with them, but you're still, you still see that potential. He could do more. It's just not right with this right now.

Right. He launched into a product and he is so passionate about that product. And I can see in him he will be successful like over time. Like my, it probably won't be this product, honestly. So I was doing the really hard thing. And this is what I told you earlier. Most entrepreneurs, the big mistake they make is they stick with their product too long. Not that they change. Really great entrepreneurs, they're just like test, test, test, they're trying different things out. And then when they see, you know, when it's taking off, because it sucks you with it, like you can't even keep up. People are just coming after you for whatever you're doing. He hasn't hit that yet.

Okay, but you can. But he has it within him. Because I know some people, I personally think, and everyone can be an entrepreneur, but some people are geared.

They don't see it themselves and they never do is if that's a polite way of saying it.

Absolutely. You know, I write about, in the beginning of my book, surviving a Startup and I actually say, because this is my experience, not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. And what are the traits and abilities you need to be a great entrepreneur? And I will tell you honestly, if, if you have, people can always become better at what they're doing. So like you could be a good entrepreneur and yes, you can learn to be a great entrepreneur and you should get all the knowledge and information and always be improving yourself. But there's certain people you'll never even get up to mediocre, like, and you shouldn't do it. And the reason is, like, ask yourself if your audience is out there. Am I somebody who deals with stress? Well, if you don't deal with stress well, if you fall apart with stress, do not be an entrepreneur. I'm sorry? You know, get a steady job where you can have a good income. Am I the type of person who wants everything in order, wants things to be predictable? If you want things to be predictable, don't be an entrepreneur. If you crave order in your life, don't be an entrepreneur. It's pure chaos. You these. You know, am I the.

I told someone, I posted on Facebook one time I was a firefighter, because that day it just seemed like, what else? And everyone's like, when did you start doing that? I'm like, there was about three people who actually caught it. You would have been one of them if we had met years ago. But a couple of them were laughing. The rest were like, congrats, congrats. I'm like, nevermind.

Yeah. And there are other people who thrive off of this. You know, they love craziness, they love uncertainty. They want, you know, this adventure of being an entrepreneur. Those are the people who are natural entrepreneurs. They might not know everything. They might make mistakes, they might fail, but it's. But if they keep trying and they keep learning and they have, you know, a reasonable amount of intelligence, they will succeed eventually.

Would you agree that you have to have some downtime to actually enjoy everything you're working for? It can't be complete chaos 24 7, 365. For decades.

For decades. You know, some people don't mind that. They're. But I always tell people it's really important to have a balanced life as an entrepreneur because you can succeed as an entrepreneur, but you, you might fail in all other areas of your life. And that is a shame. Like, I've seen divorces, you know, people get depressed, you know, sever ties with friends and family because all they're doing is working. And that's not what life is about. So if, if you want to have a really unfulfilled life, then just focus on, on doing the business. Really fulfilled. People have a nice balance, a nice blend, because what you invest in something is what you get out of it. So if you invest in your company and stuff, you're going to get a lot out of it, but you also have to invest in your family, your friends, your relationships. Otherwise, at a certain point, they're not Going to be there for you.

Well, I'm glad you're touching upon that. I want to ask you a couple more things. One of them is about Disney. How did they save you from a lawsuit?

Disney. So I was in my first venture funded startup and literally.

Another competitor that was a public company because we had a better product. We were stealing their customers and their business. They came to us and they were like, we're going to sue you for patent infringement. Now, we had our own patents and I was pretty sure we didn't infringe. But even the lawsuit, because they had far more money than us, could tie us up and drain what resources we had. We were a young startup. They could crush us just with the lawsuit. So I turned to the CEO, I said, let's talk honestly. And I go, what are you really going to gain by suing me? You know.

In the end, you're not going to win. I said, And I had figured out, this is what I figured out. I had figured out he wasn't suing me because we were stealing his customers. He wasn't suing me to just try to crush me. He was suing me because he, his company, his public company, was primarily valued on their patents, not on their execution. So I said, you should acquire us instead of sue us, and instead we should be friends. We could merge sometime. And instead you should, if you want to make headlines with the patents, go sue Disney, because that's what's going to make the headlines. Like if they're. Nobody cares if my little startup is infringing on your patents, but everybody would care if Disney is. And he went off and sued Disney and then he made an acquisition offer, which we turned down.

Wow.

So would you say you're a natural salesman or is it something you had to learn?

This is where I say, people can learn to be, you know, great at whatever you want to be great at. So I would say I had the seeds of being a great salesperson in me, but I was extremely shy, extremely awkward. I literally could not give a public talk, could not give a sales presentation anything. But what I did was I basically said, and you'd find it hard to believe now that I'm so comfortable doing this stuff, but I just did it over and over and over. And I was pretty miserable. In my first startup. People were laughing at me, my employees, because I was so nervous when I'd give talks. But if you do something enough, it becomes normal. It's just like going to the basketball court and shooting hoops over and over and over. Until you get better. So there's this natural ability that you have and then there's what you can learn, but you can dramatically improve yourself just by putting the effort in and not being afraid to make a fool of yourself.

That is inspiring and a great expert authority insight. Because that was smooth how you said it. Like someone's trying to sue you. You're like, you know what, you should buy us instead and sue the big guys. Don't sue us. I mean, that was like a complete. I. I know it's not a360 because you're back to where you are, but it just feels like more than just a 180 because a lot of people can do a 180. That was impressive though.

Thank you. Wow.

I want to ask you a special question here, and I don't think you saw this earlier when we were getting ready, but what color would you like? Yellow or black?

Yellow.

Oh, that was a good spin.

It is.

That's my goal. If it looks like a helicopter blades and you can't really tell.

So we got another yellow right here. See what it says.

I can't see. You have to tell me there's nothing.

On there because now I can ask you whatever I want.

So I'll narrow it down to do you want to stay on business, do you want to discuss travel, or do you want to discuss like 100 years from now?

Ah, so. So let's stick with business. I have lots more really good advice and stories for your audience. So I want to tell you a story about raising capital. Because every entrepreneur I meet wants to raise capital. Now, the first time I went out for my venture funded startup, I literally spent a year chasing investors and getting nowhere. And the first lesson I learned along the way is that if an investor doesn't commit to you after you've met them three or four times, walk away like you are wasting your time. Because there's all these people who are kind of interested in startups. They're like angel investors. They're looky loos, they want to talk to you and you can spend forever with them. And really, they will never invest.

Really, how can you tell if they're taking you seriously or they're just looking around?

I have some rules for that. So number one, ask them when was the last investment you made in a company similar to mine? Like if it was, you know, five years ago, forget it. Don't even go to the first meeting. If they've invested recently in companies like yours, go to that meeting. They're probably prime. When you meet them like the first time, it's really hard to close like on a first meeting. But when the first time you meet them, give them everything they need. And at the end of that meeting say, look, if there are any other decision makers that you need to get in here, have them talk to me or have them come to our next meeting.

So that we can see if it's a good fit and you will invest. Second meeting, pitch them again. Hopefully they brought other people into the meeting. And at the end of the second meeting, ask them to close. Like really good people, really good closers will ask, even on the first meeting, you know, can you invest? Are you, Are you ready? But on the second meeting, definitely ask them to close. If they're not willing to close, say, look, you have to take control. You have to set that. You can't let the investor drive this. You basically, and this is true of all sales, by the way, you basically have to say, look, I'll give you another week to decide, but I'm really busy. I have lots of stuff coming at me. You know, I, if this goes beyond a week, I, you know, I'm going to have to move on and meet other people, but I'll give you another week. You know, I'm giving you all the information you requested. If there's anything more you need, we will meet and make sure that anybody you need is in the room when we meet. So you go back on the third meeting, and then basically you're saying you're telling them.

People close deals mostly because they have to. And by have to, I mean it's not an option. They feel like if they don't close, then they're going to lose the deal. And my rule for investors, that time.

Urgency, you don't have six months to think about it. You've got a week and a half.

Look, the longer an investor takes to invest, the more they put you off, the more information they gain. Like, if they think they can get in the deal a month later, why not wait? Because they get a month's more information to see if you're going to be a success or a failure. That's good for them. But you, it's really bad for you because you're wasting your time working with this investor, hoping that they'll invest. So basically, you have to get the investor more afraid of losing the deal than they are of losing their money. So that's the equation you need. They have to be, oh, my God, I'm going to lose this deal. I got to invest. And basically you tell them, look, I, you know, I'm talking to other people. Never lie, Right. So you don't want to lie. Just say, I'm talking to other people. If one of them comes through in the next week, they're going to have the deal. I can't promise you're going to get in this deal. If you want this deal, you let me know now. And if you let me walk out of the room, then you have to be comfortable that you're probably not going to be in this deal. And it's that stuff.

Wow.

Simple.

So you're still, so you're still very.

I guess I could say aggressive. You're very succinct with what you're saying. But all it is is it's all rooted in honesty.

It's rooted in honesty and confidence. So you, you know, in your heart, you, you know, they, you may not have other investors who are ready to invest, but you literally know, look, it's like dating. People want the one that got away, so they don't want the one who's desperate, like, please, please take me. You know, they want the entrepreneur who got away. And.

I have a rule when you're talking to investors, never. And it's a general rule of life, just don't lie. There's no reason to. You don't have to, like, you are in control. If it's your company, you get to decide who invests, who doesn't. You don't have to, like, follow them around like a puppy dog begging for scraps. You, they should come to you. You give them the opportunity. If they turn it down, you're. You're off to your next thing.

That is great advice. I've taken sales training and I, it was one of the areas I wanted to improve in. I would say I have improved in it, but I'm always looking to get better. And it's always interesting because there's times where, you know, you're talking about the confidence where, yeah, I'm sitting across the table and it's like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? That was early on. And then there was other times where they already said they wanted to buy. I knew they wanted to buy. They were pre sold. And I was just so tired from that week and everything I was doing. It just felt nice to just sit down for a minute. So I just kept sipping the, sipping the drink real slow. I think he gave me a Coke or something, some pop or just whatever it was. It was a 10 or 11am thing, maybe lunch. And it was just like, I didn't do anything until I was done. And I'll never forget at the end of it, I was like, so, you have any other questions? And he was just like chomping at the bit the whole time. And I. So I slid the paperwork and the pen over and it was like, I'm like, I could have done that in the first five minutes. Now, in retrospect, I probably pushed it out longer than I should have because, you know, he could have got tired of it. Right. It was just fun for me.

It was, it's fun. Yeah.

Two deals in one day. It was my best month ever.

Best month ever. You know, I have a lot of rules about selling and my number one rule is don't sell. Like when I seem aggressive to you now, but I'm only aggressive about them.

It's not even that. It's just, I would say the more appropriate word is a confidence. Because there's people who are like in your face about it and all you're doing is laying out very succinctly, like I said, confidently, here's the rules, here's what's going on. We don't have 90 days to think about it. You have seven. You know, there's other people that are checking this out. If you're interested, great. If not, no big deal.

Yeah, exactly. And when I selling, you know, when I engage with people to sell, whether it's investors or other people, I, I tell entrepreneurs, don't go through your PowerPoint and pitch them. And you're just talking at them.

Yeah.

If you really want to sell them, talk with them, not at them. Engage in a dialogue, figure out what they think. Because these investors are often really smart people and you're sitting down with them. You have an opportunity to tap into their brain, see what they're on boards of companies, they're investing, they see things you don't see. If you hire them as a consultant, you probably couldn't afford them as an early stage startup. Here they are giving you their time for free. So talk with them and what you find is, is if you are really helpful, if you give them all the information, like just honestly, like, this is where our business, that these are the problems we're having. What do you think? And then you really listen carefully. Do you have any ideas? They give you ideas. Suddenly they get really interested in your business because they're giving their own ideas. They see you as like their partner, somebody they can talk to, they want to work with. That's where you get investors hooked up.

You were given so many great details and I know there's even more in your book, and thank you for making that available. Is that one of the primary reasons you wrote your book is to get it in more people's hands?

Yes. So when I wrote Surviving a Startup, I had all this knowledge, all this experience. I wanted to share it, I wanted to go out to the world and just put it out there. And it's been really rewarding because my, you know, my books are doing really well in the US but they're also doing well all over the world. Like we in China. We're like super bestsellers. I couldn't believe it. Like we're at the very top of the charts.

It's one of the thing, one of the things I tell my authors, when you lead with the content and you're truthful with it, you know, some people just do a book for the sake of saying I have a book, but it's really like, whatever, I'll be nice. But when you lead with actual good content, that helps. Same thing with the interview. When you're giving good adding value like you are, it's like you can't hide it. You know, you, you can have nothing and put all the polish in Photoshop and marketing on it you want, but people, you know, they'll, you'll catch their attention, but you won't keep it when you have the great content like you do. It's why it was a no brainer for me to go, heck yes, let's have them on the show. Because there's nothing you could do even if the marketing was horrible, which it's not that you could even hide it if you wanted to. And that's awesome. So thank you for being that.

Thank you.

I want to ask you one question before we thank our sponsor about all the companies. It's, it's so impressive. You've worked with so many big names. Who is one you haven't worked with that you would love to?

Who is somebody I haven't worked with that I would love to? Well, I, you know, it would be so much fun to work with Elon Musk because he is absolutely, positively the marketing genius, the biggest marketing genius around right now. We all know Elon Musk didn't start Tesla. It wasn't his company. He relies on a lot of really smart people to actually get the work done. But that guy comes up with so many crazy things that he's always at the top of. He's always headline news. You know, he's always pushing his Vision. He really knows how to craft and communicate a vision. I think I could definitely learn something from him.

That's a great answer. Would you say Steve Jobs was very similar?

Yeah, Steve Jobs was similar and different. Steve Jobs, I would say, was more artistic, sensitive to design. He was really into the craftsman piece of making something. Whereas Elon Musk is really conceptual, you know, big ideas. I want to take humanity to Mars, you know, I want to, you know, make all, you know, transform from a fuel society to an electric, you know, transportation system. He's really big on these ideas and communicating those, but they do have a lot of commonalities, too.

Let me just expand this a minute. What do you think of Bill Gates?

Well, recently he's been involved in this scandal, you know, over harassing young women.

So I actually didn't hear about that. Oh, really?

Okay, just go online and search it. It's pretty big right now. So he, Microsoft, even admitted to it to some degree. So Bill Gates, first of all, I want to. He's a great business person and I really respect what he's done with the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and all the work that he's put into that, really solving hard problems for the world. So, you know, who knows in his personal life and how, you know, other things aside who he is, we never really know these people at all. We just know what we, you know, the media.

Yeah, he popped in my mind because we were talking about Elon and Steve Jobs, and I know there was always that. Whether the rivalry was real at some points or mostly for marketing, you know, between Apple and Microsoft in the 70s, 80s, 90s.

Yes. And right now, if you look at the big rivalry, it's between Elon and Jeff Bezos. Right. Those guys are going at it with each other, especially Elon. He loves to poke the bear. He loves to get people. So with Bill Gates.

The defining trait about Bill Gates is all of these. Let's take Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, you know, any of these guys out there, Steve Jobs, the thing that defined them is they weren't just. They didn't come up with just one idea. They didn't look, oh, I'm going to build this amazing product or this amazing service. They were systems thinkers, so they went from top to bottom of the entire system. So like Bill Gates, you're talking about him. He was like IBM, the biggest computer company in the world, basically handed him the king, the keys to the kingdom, because he saw the operating system is the most important piece in this system. It's not the hardware that IBM is developing. It's not all this other stuff. If I control the operating system, I control the system for computers, all computers. You know, he saw that. Steve Jobs, the same thing, Elon Musk, all of them are thinking of the big picture. They don't just think of one isolated thing. They look at the entire ecosystem and chain that you have to manage. And really, for great business people, you can look at the history. Like I've studied Rockefeller, Rockefeller, J.D. rockefeller was amazing because he went into the oil industry and he first started with refineries, but he basically took over and monopolized the entire oil industry. Right, because he saw all the different pieces he had to control. And then in the oil industry is chaotic. Prices were going up and down. He stabilized the prices and was able to control prices by controlling the system. Jeff Bezos, we were just talking about him. He. There's no area Jeff Bezos won't go into. Right. It's all tied together. Logistics, warehouse, shipping, you know, you know, you name it. Cloud computing, they're all part of a single system in his mind. So if you want to be one of those amazing entrepreneurs, you have to expand your thinking. You have to think about all the different pieces that play a role and how they fit together.

Would you say Richard Branson's up there, too?

Yes, Richard Branson's up. But Richard Branson is a little different. He. He's a little different beast. I mean, he's super smart, but a lot of what he does, he's more like a venture capitalist, you know, honestly, than an entrepreneur. So the things he invests in, he doesn't really run those. He's like the figurehead and he puts the money in. He's a great visionary is what he is. I don't think he's as much a systems thinker. Like the people under him and his various businesses, some of them succeed, some don't. But he's more of a venture capitalist looking for opportunities, seeing the future.

And the last one, I'll ask you is Larry Ellison.

Yeah, he's. Larry Ellison's done a phenomenal job with Oracle and everything.

Lately.

He's kind of taken, you know, he's kind of taken his foot off the pedal. It feels like he's not quite up there with what's happening. But Oracle, still, he's a system thinker. You think about Oracle, he built this entire ecosystem and he bedded it in all these large companies. And even though now they're much more flexible databases out there, and cloud solutions, they can't get rid of Oracle. They're too tightly enmeshed with them.

Yeah, and that's the thing people don't realize in businesses. You know, a lot of it's the relationships and the partnerships and the synergies and stuff like that. Because, you know, even some of my own clients, I've had over a decade, you know, they flat out called me or whatever. They're like, I've had, you know, new people coming in, you know, and I'll never forget one of them. He goes, you might want to think about who you're hanging out with because.

They are claiming they're friends of yours, but they're coming in here pitching me. And they knew, like, it was my account I've had for six or eight years at that point. But he would call me, he's like, is this worth looking into? You know, I was his trusted advisor. It wasn't just like, we did this thing one time for him. I mean, we had him as a client for 10, 11, 12 years. And when you build that relationship with people, it's like, yeah, you know, Oracle, you know, or Windows or Apple or whatever the case is. When you have the whole company running that ecosystem, they're not worrying about a dollar or two, they're gonna save here and there. It's like, you will have to redo the whole company.

So, yeah, the exit, the switching cost is so high. This is what another thing that great entrepreneurs do. They lock in their customers. Like, they literally lock them in. They make it so that they have invested so much time, resources and money into integrating whatever product or service they're using into their business that they can't imagine switching even when they're better products.

Out there in the service, too. I mean, you might have a better product, but if no one can get a hold of you to do anything with it.

Oh, yeah, yeah. And, you know, service, it's like Zappos was like the company that based their whole reputation on service. And, you know, Amazon acquired them, but they did a phenomenal job of thinking about our competitive edge is literally going to be our service and our relationship to our customers. So each of these business, you know, you can learn something from all these different businesses and these really amazing entrepreneurs and how they approach what they do.

Yeah, it's interesting to see people's different takes, because if you're only looking at the financial side, it's like, okay, they're all financially successful, but they all have a different approach and methodology. But that's what's exciting to me. Is anyone. You know, no matter where you're at, you can learn it, you can become it, you can change it. And even if you, you know, whether you're shy or outgoing, I know people that do tons of sales either way.

Yeah, you can be an introvert and still be an amazing salesperson.

You don't need to be the figurehead. You might have a killer sales team, but you know, as far as business is concerned, your business is still thriving. So that's why I like it's a team sport.

Yes.

We're going to thank our sponsor and come back for the imperfect action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why I'm launching my new book@eapublishingmethodbook.com so you can learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what? Don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having.

An idea and a possibility to actually getting my book published.

Or Catherine, thank you for making my.

Mom number one best selling author.

Or Mary Alice, what he got done.

For me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable.

John Cody.

I've worked with Mario over the phone.

And online and he's been very helpful in getting me where I needed to.

Go with promoting my books. Rocio, there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process. Adele, if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner. I can't make a higher recommendation for than to work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get your copy and I look forward to hearing your transformation as our next video success story. Once again, that's eapublishing method book.com and we are back with the Imperfect Action Round. Captain Hoff, are you ready to take imperfect action?

I am ready.

So I got three questions for you. 60 second or less answers. The first one is what is the fastest path to the profits?

The fastest path to the profits is creating extreme value for your customer.

Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

The biggest problem for my prospects are making.

Right now in my business. So it's entrepreneurs having trouble getting a product market fit.

Okay, and how do they fix it?

And how do they fix it? We've been talking about that in this episode in the fastest way to fix it is actually figuring out who their customers are and what they need.

Very good. Number three.

We mentioned this earlier and I this is question that'll probably never leave because so many people have been like, wow, that's a good one. What is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

The best way to maximize the lifetime value of a customer is literally to be offering them better quality products and services than anybody else. Because you may make more money, you may make less money in the short term, but because you're offering better product quality, better quality products and services, they are going to keep coming back to you every time.

Excellent. Where would you like people to learn more?

If you want to reach out to me for any reason, just go to foundersspace.com so at founderspace you can contact me. We have tons of videos, we have podcasts, we have free online startup kits. You can submit your business plan for funding all of that. And if you want to get my book, just go to survivingastartup.com or as we were talking about, Amazon.

Excellent. It has been an absolute pleasure. I'm glad we could set this up and I have got a lot out of it myself and I know Expert Authority World has also.

Thank you, Mario.

All right, Expert Authority World, we have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day. God bless.

You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate qualified leads while increasing profit for you 247 and if so, how well are you promoting it? With my new book, the Expert Authority Effect Publishing Method, I take you through my process step by step. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit writing business book in eight weeks. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get started now. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.Com thanks for listening to today's episode. I would love to know what you enjoyed most from it if you haven't done so already. I invite you to connect with me on my new LinkedIn. You can go to it directly at eainterviews.com LinkedIn Once again, that's eainterviews.com forward/LinkedIn. Lastly, check out the full eainterviews.com site for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you on the next one.