0358 | Jonathan Goldhill

Hi, this is Jonathan Goldhill with The Goldhill Group, www.thegoldhillgroup.com. and you're listening to EA Interviews.

EA Interviews, episode 358, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the Imperfect Action Round. Seven days a week. Join Mario Ficcini for today's Expert Authority Effect interview. Expert Authority World. Have you ever thought about starting a company and disrupting a market? Have you had a great idea and thought about what it would take to put it into action? I will share one with you. I had an idea years ago when I was in photography to make my shirts look nicer because I was always in dress shirts. And I thought if we have this thing to dry film, why don't we have something to dry in steam shirts? And I always thought about bringing it to life. And I'm sad to say else, LG now makes something like that. And this was 10 or 15 years ago. So even if you have an idea, you have to bring it to market. I did not bring that one to market, but I'm glad I have EA Interviews for you. I did bring this to market and I have the author of Disruptive Successor, Jonathan Goldhill on today's episode and we're going to talk about how he helps family businesses to grow exponentially. One of his clients is the yummy Hawaiian roll bakery company, King's Hawaiian. And I'm excited to learn about that and all the other people he's worked with. He's talked to many organizations and I'm going to bring him up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. And that's why I'm launching my new book to help you regardless of where you think your current writing abilities are. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Jonathan Goldhill. Jonathan, how are you feeling today?

Hey, Mario, thanks very much. I'm feeling pretty good. Got some nice weather here in Los Angeles.

Not too cold, is it?

No, not too cold. Not like Detroit, Michigan.

Well, that's great to hear. It's so impressive what you've done not only with your book and your clients. And I want to add a little caveat when I was saying family businesses. I love local business, midsize and large businesses, but also you specialize in family businesses. But I mentioned Kings Hawaiian. They're over 200 million in annual sales. So While it's a family business, I would have to say they're a large company. Wouldn't you agree?

They are not only a large company. I would agree. But actually, you know, some surveys that were done or research that was done by UCLA many years ago showed that I think somewhere between 40 and 60% of all publicly traded companies are family owned and controlled. So even if that number is skewed, Kings Hawaiian is just another example of a large company that is multi generational. And you'd be surprised at how many companies are still owned and controlled by the family members that founded it.

That is fantastic to hear.

I've always loved family business. I've always loved business. I've always loved family. I've always loved family business. And I've had people on the show like the wife of the founder of Purdue Chicken and Sheraton Hotels, the daughter, Mitzi Perdue.

Yeah, she was a client. She was a guest of mine on my show as well.

Yeah, she's fantastic. And I did not know that I got to be honest about King's Bakery until I was reading through your one sheet. When I was going through to approve you for the show, I was like, that is massive. But they do make some good roles.

Yeah. And they've grown. They were 500 employees when I was working with them and they've Grown fourfold since 2001.

And new family members keep coming into the fold. I'm not actively working with them any longer, but it's amazing to see and it's kind of rare to see a fourth generation family business or fifth or sixth make it past just the third generation. As you probably know, my story was my family made it into the third generation, but it really wasn't going to make it to the fourth generation. There just really wasn't the leadership, the successors that were in place to be able to do that.

Yeah. And for people listening that don't know, tell us about your background and your family history because it's definitely interesting.

Yeah. So my grandfather and his two brothers and their father started a clothing business back at the turn of the last century. So they were early 1900s, they were selling men's suits in New York City. They basically got into the wholesale manufacturing business and started making other labels as suits. They did that for 50, 60 years. Their big success and wins came during World War II when they made overcoats and jackets and suits, suits for the army and clothed our military men. And then in the late 60s, they actually sold the business. My research shows I didn't know It I was a teenager, they still seem to operate out of a showroom in New York City. And what had happened was they sold the business and got lifetime employment contracts, which is unheard of today. And they continue to operate that business until 1986 when they ceased operations. And they ceased operations really because there was no successor. Business was the manufacturing of men's suits was being moved all overseas and it just didn't make sense to stay in the business. And my grandfather, I think at the time that in 86 when they closed it down was he was 87 years old and was well into having had senility dementia. So I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to participate in that as a fourth generation family business member. But it always stuck with me and it led me to a career of being entrepreneurial oriented, interested in consulting and helping others. And 30 years later, here I am, having been a coach and consultant for many years, but now squarely focused on next generation leaders in family businesses. Because I really believe that successors have to be disruptive if they're going to take their family business and take it into a next generation or beyond.

That's a great story. I appreciate you for sharing that because I love seeing it being passed down. My dad, God rest his soul, before he passed, he was in business for 30, 35 years. And I always see, saw it growing up and I have no doubt that's why I was so drawn to it. I started my first company like I was telling you when I was 12, sold it to start this one in college and I've been doing ever since. And it's just inspiring to hear it from other people, their success stories. But it's also fun to pay it forward and go, you know what, you can do it too. Yeah, it's going to be an uphill battle in the beginning and probably the whole way, I think if we're both being honest at different points. But it's so rewarding and you can reach out to those people. So tell me, what does being a successful disruptor mean to you?

So I think it's someone who has a desire to really scale the business and is willing to step beyond what their parents did so they'll know that kind of what got them here isn't going to get them there. And that in order to disrupt the business, they're going to have to reevaluate the products and services, how they're being delivered, how the customer experiences it. They're going to have to leverage technology, which all businesses today are doing more and more of, again, that's for the product experience, the consumer or customer experience, and to manage the business better. And so I think that also the third component is the people component, which is a lot of times the people who got you to where you are today are not going to be the people who are going to get you to that next level. So my clients are typically younger, millennial, 25 to 40 years old, as I define them. And they know that the guy that worked for their dad, who's really good or was really good, who's maybe really in his graying years or her, isn't going to be that person who's going to take them to the next level. And so they have to disrupt what feels like, you know, a family member being involved in the business. And they have to typically transition them into another role, a new role, and sometimes even out of the company as they're starting to develop younger people who can take the business into the next generation.

Now, this is so surreal for me because a lot of what you were saying, literally in the last few weeks, I've been thinking about with stuff I'm doing and goals for the future. And I was just telling someone, even yesterday, there's people in place. I let go last week because I'm thankful, and they did great work, but it was from the beginning to here. They're not going to take me to the next level. And there's things they were doing this, that the other thing. And it's just like, I'm smirking here because I'm like, you're speaking to everyone, but you're also speaking to me. And I want to ask, how do you know if. How do you tell or tell your clients it's time to get someone different? Because personally, I don't like letting people go. I like, you know, keeping them forever and bringing them on as we all succeed. But if they're just not ready, mentally, emotionally, whatever it is, how do you. How do you tell, hey, you know what? This is the point. It's. It's taken too long. They're not making any changes. They're not willing to grow with it. I mean, that's a hard thing for me personally with, you know, a couple dozen people, let alone, I'm sure, like, Hawaiian Bakery and all your other clients, they've got hundreds and thousands of people.

Yeah. So typically I use some kind of a job evaluation performance.

Review tool, and I'm evaluating them along two axes, which are the two axes that Jack Welch and his folks at GE came up with, which Is first we're going to evaluate them along the productivity measures. And hopefully by this time in the business, we've put some metrics in place, and so we have some objective measurements as to are they doing their job well, are they high performer, high achiever? So that's one set of like, that's the X axis that I'm measuring them, and then I'm measuring them on the Y axis of, you know, how well do they fit the values of the business? Do they live the values? Do they embrace the revitalized purpose for our company? And so do they fit? Ultimately, that's a litmus test of do they fit the culture? And so typically, Mario, I'm finding, as you probably did, that some of them are not really fitting some of the values of the company, and they're maybe definitely not achieving at the performance level you'd like them to be achieving. And so the first step is to try and like, maybe warn them and coach them up. And if they really clearly are not fitting either one of those X or Y axis components, then you have to coach them out. And that requires some empathy and some helpfulness and a recognition that they might have put in many years. And so you want to help ease their transition, whether it's through a severance package or an introduction to another possible employer or some other suggestions there. It's not easy. But that's basically the simplest way that I look at how to evaluate someone.

Well, I appreciate it does help. And yeah, it's like when you work with someone from 2 years to 10 plus, it's not just, you know, line item name by Sia, you're fired.

Right.

But at the same time, it's like when the toll is going, I'm the one taking the toll. I'm like, well, I'm not going to keep this up forever either.

So what I do look at is if someone really fits the values of the company well. So there's someone I like having around because they fit the culture. So then I look and see what other position or positions might I be able to move them into where they.

Would be successful within the organization. You change. You just change them out of the role.

Exactly.

I've done that too, even recently with someone where I was like, you know what? I appreciate you attempting this. Let's put you over here.

Right? Yes. I had a young guy who worked for me, and he was really terrific at a lot of things, but he did take on some tasks and activities that he wasn't terrific at. And so he tried to build Me a website and I say, you know what? Like, nice try, thanks. Like, exactly. You need to learn how to sort of stay in your zone of excellence and genius and not go into uncharted territories and just sell me something based on the, the thought that, oh, I can figure it out. So I liked it, but I like the spirit behind it.

Yeah, I mean, you got to try stuff at some point. But there's a big difference in, yeah, I'm already here versus, hey, this is the first time I'm doing it. I'm willing to attempt if you understand. Here's what the deal is, you know.

Yeah, totally.

So what inspired you to write your book? So you already had this success prior to it, but why would you want to write a book?

You know, what is going on in the coaching profession is, oh, let's see, I got into it 15 plus years ago, people didn't even know what a business coach was. And so 15 years ago I was trying to explain, well, why would you want a business coach? I mean, what is a business coach? And then 10 years ago it was, well, what's the difference between a business coach and a consultant? And what's the nuance there? And then five years ago it's like, oh, you're interested in a coach, so am I the right coach for you? So like, how do, how does my offering compare to the other coaches that you're looking at? And so basically the industry has gotten quite, has matured and has gotten quite competitive. And I decided, you know what, I am going to write a book that's going to speak to my ideal client and it's going to give them the tools that I think they need and I'm going to take from some of the best systems that I've learned from and I'm going to write something that speaks specifically to that idea. Ideal client. And so that's why I wrote it. In the process of writing the book while just putting it out there to other people, hey, I'm writing this book. It's. I didn't know what the title was. We landed on Disruptive Successor. Many, you know, like when I finished it. But it was, it was clearly for next generation leaders in family businesses that wanted to scale 2 to 10x and needed a playbook for how to do this. And what I found was as I was writing the book, I started to attract these clients, probably because I was messaging that somehow in my marketing. And so more and more I've attracted those ideal customers clients and I worked really well with them. So that's why I went after that market. Wrote the book today. If you're a business coach and you don't have, I mean, that's like a book is like a business card. Yep. So, you know, we need that. I'm sure you well know. Yeah.

When we're taking our authors through our program, they're like, well, am I just going to get a book out of it? And I'm like, it's so voluminous of the intangibles that come out of this. And you just mentioned one. I started attracting more to me because you're refining the method. It's one thing to make a social media post and it's another thing to maybe do a LinkedIn article. But when you go, I'm going to put my name on a book and stamp it, you make sure it's pretty darn buttoned up. Same thing with the title, same thing with the COVID same thing with everything. And if nothing else, I think it's a really great exercise in copywriting because it's like you can put something out. Maybe it worked, maybe it didn't. By the time the book is done, you've refined it so much, everything else just works better.

Yeah, well, I mean, one thing I kept hearing from people over and over again was you write really well and I would hear from some of these people and I thought all I did was write you an email. But it was a series of emails. And I did recognize that there's a thoughtfulness that goes into my writing and into my email writing. There's a level of like veracity and trustworthiness and detail. I thought I really should write a book to this ideal client profile and teach them what I'm teaching a lot of them through my work. And you know, my goal was if you write a book, you give them a lot of tools, let them start acting upon it. Chances are they're going to call you and say, hey, this is really good stuff. But, you know, we're stuck. We need some help implementing this. We're not really sure on how to come up with our purpose or what our values are or, you know, we're trying to put together a one page business plan and we don't really know, like if we got it right. Can you guide us?

So, yeah, having that mentor in that sounding board to, you know, because there's many times I've hired mentors and there's many times I've been one and just having a second person to go, hey, now they should be qualified in an expert. And you're gonna get more.

More progress quicker when they know what they're doing. But I'm very open to seeing different perspective and I to tell people, I love your eyes, your perspective, your view. Because I know my shortcomings. There's a lot of them. I like to stay in my expert authority, effect, genius zone, because this is one of them. This is easy and effortless for me. When you ask me to do the other things, it's like, I can do it, but I'm not the best. And sometimes I don't care, depending on what day it is, frankly. And it's like, but put me here. It doesn't matter if it's 24 hours a day. I've actually had people wake me up in me middle of the night, you know, and I call them, text them, they're in the middle of a thing and I'm like. And it just comes out. I mean, it's outpouring. I mean, if I were to just spin a wheel and pick any company on earth and they say, here's the problems, and they're similar to the people in companies you've helped, you wouldn't bat an eyelash going, here's how to fix it, would you?

No, not at all. And you know, when we're working in our zones of genius and zones of excellence, we will do it often. Right? Someone once said to me, and never forgotten, that if you do what you love, you'll do it often. If you do it often, you'll do it well. And if you do it well, you'll be well rewarded. So it goes to follow that you should do what you love to do and you'll be well rewarded. Makes sense.

Absolutely. I agree 100%. I noticed another similarity. You have seven P's in your book, don't you?

Yes, I do. Yes.

And I call them the seven steps. But mine are also P. Also, I was like, that is cool. Great minds. Why don't you take us through them?

Sure. So I believe that people need frameworks. And.

When we have a framework, we can see more clearly through that lens. I know that because I once took people, or many times actually took people through an exercise where, where you have a bunch of scattered numbers on a piece of paper and you ask them to circle one and then two and then three and then four and see how high they can go. And you give them 30 seconds and then you, a few minutes later, give them another piece of paper with the same number scattered. And you put it and you frame it up, you chop it into Quarters. And suddenly now they see that there's a pattern to the way the numbers work on the page. And to me, that was an example of, oh, if you look at business through a framework, it's a lot easier. And so my 7ps starts, but could start really anywhere. But it starts with your purpose. Like, why are you in business? What is your reason for being in business? If you're a disruptive successor, you've got to redefine the purpose that your parents came up with. And then another P, not in that necessarily in disorder is your people. Do you have the right people on your bus, so to speak, to use Jim Collins phrase, and are they in the right seats on the bus? So people is really important. Now, of course you have to have really good processes because you can't scale any business if you don't have documented processes. So we have that as one of them. And people need to be clear about what their priorities are. So, like, what are you doing this quarter, this next year to move you forward, the company forward, your department forward? So you need to have priorities and you need to be accountable to those priorities. We have to also measure our performance. Obviously we measure it beyond just the profit and loss statement. Better yet, you know, let's look at the balance sheet. Are we building value in this asset? But even better yet is let's look at a combination of measures in the profit and loss and the balance sheet to see whether as an owner, the you're getting a return on your investment. That's super important that most small business owners don't even think about is return on investment. So those are some of the key P's that I think are really important. Planning, obviously is one. People need to have a plan that starts with, you know, it could be simple as a vision and a statement and an expression of where you want to be in one year, three years, 10 years. And then also in your plan is what's your market positioning? How do you differentiate yourself? What's your messaging? So that might be in your plan.

So those are, I think, some of the key elements of the 7P framework that I'd like to share with you today.

Excellent. Thank you for that.

I noticed something else you and you mentioned it now and I think it's fantastic. You've helped people with their vivid vision, haven't you?

Yes, definitely.

Now you had said where they want to be three, five years in the future. And for people listening, the vivid vision is a framework to figure that out instead of just saying, well, I want this one line item or two, why don't you walk us through that? And why do you feel it's so important to the point where you actually do it with your clients?

Yeah, I think it's really important because I think that you first have to see it and then you have to believe it and then you become it. And so I think having a picture of what it looks like, of what success looks like, and everyone should have their own definition. Some people have very different definitions of what success looks like. And if you haven't taken the time to vividly imagine, describe it, share it and engage other people, or rather enroll other people in, in that vision, then who's going to want to join you on this journey? So one of the ways that you can do it, obviously on the screen, is by using an app or tool like Canva where you can, you know, bring objects and images together. The old fashioned way was you'd grab a whole bunch of magazines and you'd cut out pictures, you'd make a collage and, you know, cut out words and create a board.

In the more sort of analog and analytical way. We put descriptions of the targets we're going to reach in terms of goals, in terms of finances, in terms of numbers and money. And, you know, but that's only one part of it. It misses some of the emotional elements. So if people want to look at their life also from a multifaceted perspective, you know, you've got a spiritual life, you've got a home life, you know, like a family life.

100%.

Right.

I think they should, I think they should be looking at. From a multifaceted approach.

Absolutely. Yeah. Because you, right. You can't just look at your business. You'll drown out, you know, your entire life. And like, business of living should be about living first and business should support your life. So, yeah, looking at your spiritual life, looking at your professional life, looking at, you know, toys, hobbies, career, you know, all that stuff should be thought into, should be put into that vision.

Well, that's fantastic. I want to ask you about the companies you've worked with. Who's been your favorite and why?

Well, I have to do a shout out to Justin White of K and D Landscaping. We've been working together for the last six or seven years and I've taken his, helped him take his company from 15 employees doing about a million and a half dollars a year to Today he's doing $12 million a year profitable. He's got a great team of eight players. It's been an amazing journey. He's empowering the lives of other people.

He's a coach to his own employees and he, I think, aspires to be a coach to others. He's an entrepreneur and he's truly a disruptive successor. He is someone that I chose to think about when I wrote my book and to put his story and sprinkle it throughout the book. I think it's just an inspiring story. It's not a hockey stick fast growth company like some people would aspire and you know, but to be. But look, most small businesses don't have hockey stick like curves in their, in their revenue. They have maybe 20%, 25%, maybe something more year over year. And so it's a great story of success where his dad really couldn't teach him what he needed to learn. And so what I thought might be a good title for my book, which is what got you here is not going to get you there. The concept was he needed a new mentor, a new person who could teach him stuff that wasn't going to be in the technical side of his business, but was going to be on the soft skills, the leadership, the financial literacy and all the other tools that I bring along with it to help him bring build a great company. So very proud of him. He's based in Santa Cruz, California area and he's getting widely recognized in the landscaping industry for having a really great company.

I'm glad you shared that and I know it's rewarding for you, but what a great success story for him. I mean, I don't know anyone that wouldn't want to go from a couple mil to, you know, from seven figures to eight figures over. It doesn't matter how much time because you talk about that hockey stick growth. And I was going to ask, do you feel that's a lot of companies that are private, like larger companies that are private with the intention of going public in the hockey stick is when they go public.

Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, as a student of business who got an MBA in entrepreneurship and had venture capitalists sort of parade, you know, one week after the next through our classroom, it seemed as though everyone had a business plan that within three to five years had, you know, hockey stick like, you know, growth in their revenues. But, you know, how many of those business plans ever came to life? How many of them ever would come to life? And you know, the chances are is that one out of ten will have that type of maybe growth curve. Three or four will just die. Three or four will be part of sort of like the Walking wounded. You know, a few people hit singles, doubles. I mean, not everyone's hitting home runs and grand slams, you know, so.

And you have to take into the account the generations like we were talking about earlier, you know, how long will it last? It's great to go, yeah, we did this, you know, xyz. But are you even around five, ten years from now? I've told people that for ages when they're like, should I offer specials discounts? I'm like, if you want to run a promo, by all means do it. But don't get in the business model, like the Walmart business model, where you're just constantly discounting because you'll have nothing left. And if you think you're doing them a service by going, we're going to be cheaper, you're doing yourself a disservice. And them. Because if you're not around three, four, five years from now, you can't serve them if you're out of business.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. And look, you know, in family businesses, you don't see those hockey stick like growth curves and they don't oftentimes go public or sell to a public company. So excuse me. So what you see is.

Maybe the next generation is borrowing off of the credit capabilities and the cash flow from the current business. And I don't know of any father that wants their son to bet the farm on hockey stick like growth. They'll be like, you know what, son? We're happy with the way things are. You want to improve things and grow things 20% a year. You know, look, in five years we'll double actually probably more like 3.5 years.

That's a lot of growth for a lot of family businesses. Be more than ecstatic to have that kind of growth.

Yeah, and I was going to say I had a guest on a couple weeks ago and he was talking about his book the rule of 26. And if you increase the conversions 26% and you do this 26% and you do this 26%, you don't need hockey stick growth to. You don't need hockey stick growth even if you're growing 10% a year. You know that 10% year two is on 110% and then the 10%, so it's exponentially going up, like. Yeah, absolutely. Who wouldn't want to double every three and a half years? Or even if it's just once the initial and then whatever time frame for the rest. But I think people see all these stories of people and it's like oh, well, I didn't make a billion dollars my first year in business. It's like, you know how many people don't. It's not possible. But.

Relax, you're still doing good stuff and helping people. You're achieving your dream. Like, you went for it.

Yeah. I ran a peer group of fast growth companies for five years and our admission criteria was you had to be growing at 20% or more per year. And it was a lot easier for the $2 million companies to grow at that rate than the 10 and $20 million companies.

Cool little thing. I don't know about that rule of 26, but the rule of 72 that Andrew Tobias came up with many years ago is a really neat one, which will tell you how fast it takes for your money to double. Either take the interest rate or the number of years that's your desired period and divide that into 72 and the other. The answer will give you either the interest rate you need to have or the number of years it'll take to double.

Oh, no kidding. Appreciate that. That's pretty cool. That's very cool.

Yes.

Well, I have one more question for you before we come back to the imperfect action round. And.

Actually I have two. I don't know why I say I have a real question, but I actually. The second question is yellow or black?

Okay, yellow.

It's interesting. Everyone's been picking yellow lately, so we'll go with yellow. You see the question there? No, because I make these up on the fly. So I originally was going to put some on there. But it's a lot more fun to just have carte blanche and do whatever you want to. Keep it on business or you want to talk about travel?

Travel is great. Got a lot of that in the past and in the future right now for me.

Where would you like to go in the future that you haven't been before and why?

Oh, whoa.

So one of the places I'm really interested to go to is Portugal in the Algarve coast.

It did just come back from Spain and Mallorca and was in Paris and I was thinking of going to Portugal. We didn't make it, but it's definitely on my list. Places I want to go.

Sounds nice. Well, thank you for sharing that with us. We are going to thank the sponsor and come back for the imperfect action run. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours, and it's true. And that's why I'm launching my new book@eapublishingmethodbook.com so you can learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having.

An idea and a possibility to actually getting my book published.

Or Catherine, thank you for making my mom number one best selling author. Or Mary Alice, what he got done.

For me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable.

John Cody.

I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful in getting me where I needed to go with promoting my books.

Rocio, there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process.

Adele, if you're looking for an amazing.

Business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner.

I can't make a higher recommendation than.

To work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for me and.

Right now I won't work with anybody.

Else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get your copy and I look forward to hearing your transformation as our next video success story. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Jonathan, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Let's go. Do I get to choose yellow or black?

I should color code these because there's three questions I got for you that'd be interesting. Which one would you go with this time? Yellow again or black?

Black this time. Definitely, definitely had nothing to show.

Well, we'll ask you the first black question and it is what is the fastest path to the profits?

Oh, the fastest path to profits. Raise your prices, friends. I've done an analysis actually of this and you know, you increase your sales volume, you can lower your cost, but the fastest path to increasing your bottom line is to raise your prices.

Nice.

Love it.

Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

You're focusing on the wrong things and you're doing the wrong type of work a lot of times. Get into your zone of genius, get into your zone of excellence, start to delegate all those things that are not that you're competent at and that you're incompetent at and start, you know Going where you're. Where your love and your passion is and where you're really good.

Love that. Thank you for that. Number three, the one that'll probably never leave the show because everyone loves it. What is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

So you really need to get close to your customer and you need to continue to deliver value. Now, I know that sounds pretty obvious, but you need to understand what's their progression and what's their path. If you want to increase your customer lifetime value, you need to keep them. You need to continue to sell recurring services to them. And you can only do that by understanding what their value path is and keep delivering value along that path.

Excellent. Yeah, I think people think it's like a front end thing. Hey, we'll do whatever we need to just to get them in the door. But then it's kind of like, hey, we got them. We did what we needed to. It's like, no. You constantly have to evaluate and see what's going on.

Yep, exactly.

Where would you like people to learn more?

So if you're interested in my book, you can go to my website, disruptivesuccessor.com you can grab a free chapter, you can download some of the tools that I make available, and you can go from there and buy the book on Amazon. If you're interested in business coaching and implementing some of the tools from the book and other tools, then go to thegoldhillgroup.com.

Excellent. I'll make sure both of those are in their show notes. Jonathan, it's been an absolute pleasure. Oh, I'm gonna ask you one more thing about books. What books would you recommend to Expert Authority World?

Oh, you mean books for people to read.

Yeah.

So?

Well, we talked a little about Jack Welch, so I really liked his autobiography. He also wrote a subsequent book. Really helpful if you're going to manage your business and manage people. Some great tools in there. I'm a big fan of Pat Lencioni's books. If you have healthy team dynamic, dysfunctional team dynamic issues, you're looking to attract ideal team players. You want to be a great salesperson. He's got three or four books that all address those areas. Those are some of my favorites.

I am biting my tongue, but I'm just gonna say it. I'm not gonna get myself in trouble. You're saying if you have functional or dysfunctional people in your business, what about personal lives?

Yeah, you know, that's an interesting one. The books that I would recommend in that vein are Critical conversations, crucial conversations. I think it's called actually. Okay. And there's another book escaping my memory at the moment, but it's about how to have difficult conversations with family members and business, business associates, teammates.

Excellent. Thank you for that as well. I see. And that's the thing I learned years ago is.

People are people. We all know people. And some people treat business like, well, this is business, this is personal. And I personally believe you don't have any business problems. They're personal problems that show up in business.

Yeah. Well, just like corporations, aren't these entities that you have a relationship with, we have relationships with people who work at corporations.

Same type of mindset.

Thank you for all those recommendations. I'll for sure make sure those are in there as well. And it really has been a pleasure. Thank you for sharing everything you have. Thanks for coming on, Mario.

Thank you very much.

All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless.

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