0380 | Denise Blasevick

Denise Hi, this is Denise blasovic with the S3 agency. And you're listening to EA interviews, EA.

Interviews, episode 380, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week. Join Mario Ficcini for today's expert authority effect interview. Do you have a brand by design? Does a new logo equal a new brand? Have you ever thought about the importance of branding in your company? I have, I definitely have. But I'm always looking to improve and I want you to know the differences. Some people think if they do one thing, it's going to change everything and other people think if they change everything, it's going to change everything. I think there's a happy medium somewhere in there and that's why I'm excited to have Denise Blasovic on the show, CEO of the S3 agency. And we're going to unpack this and more right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. And that's why I'm launching my new book to help you, regardless of where you think your current writing abilities are. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com Here she is, ladies and gentlemen, Denise Blasovic. Denise, how are you feeling today?

I'm doing great, Mario, how are you?

I'm feeling excited because this is such a great topic to be talking about. But your experience, you know, working with Jaguar, with Ferrari, with BMW, many others. And I saw when I was checking some things out before we got started here, you also worked with Rouse Homemade. Is that Rouse from New York that I'm familiar with?

It is. And I also thought it was Raoz before I started working with them. It's Rao's, which is Rao's. Interesting. So it's completely changed my world. Just the pronunciation, but the sauce itself, we said we work with the sauce which you know, has come from that namesake. And it's just, you know, if you try it, you will never buy another jarred sauce and you probably won't make as much homemade sauce.

That is fantastic. And for anyone listening, I know I mentioned some cars and we mentioned you can't go wrong with Italian as far as I'm concerned. But she was worked with so many different people. You know, I hope she talks about them a little bit more, but there's 20 or 30. I didn't want to read off this list, but she's worked with pretty much everyone under the sun you can think of with one exception. And I know the answer. Maybe you'll reveal that. But why don't you just dive in, Denise, and tell us why is branding so important and how do you help companies with it?

Sure. Well, I mean, what you said in the very beginning, do you have a brand by design or a brand by default? Companies and marketers, we all like to think that we control the brand, right? That we, whether it's something, that we think it's something and it goes and becomes something else, or we really clearly define it. Defining what our brand is and which is a great idea and it's a great theory and practice that we should enter into. However, the reality is a brand is not your logo. It's not your look. It's, you know, it's the experience that other people believe your brand to be. So it's a brand is really like a psychological thing, right? So you want to put in all the opportunities to make that happen. That to me is what a brand is. And that takes an architecture that takes a really. It starts with clearly defining what you can be, what is different about you that is relevant to your audience, that you can then live into. And those are the three things we say. You know, what are you like, how are you authentically differentiated, how are you relevantly differentiated and how are you executing that? The are super important. And you know, many, many companies don't do that. They just create a product or a service and they put it out there and then you're competing on price. That's what you're doing. Then you're a commodity. And you know, I mean, I don't have any clients that want to be a commodity. I don't know how many companies you know who want to be a commodity.

No, you definitely don't want to. And for anyone listening, that might be going, well, what's the difference if you're a commodity or not? I think it should be self explanatory. But one thing I've learned with hosting is never just assume anything. There's so many companies that just go into that space in your words. Why would you say someone doesn't want to be a commodity?

Commodities are traded exclusively on price. So if you aren't, you know, like, okay, here you drink Starbucks. There's a reason that you pay all the money for Starbucks. The coffee itself doesn't cost that much more. Certainly not the multiples that you'd pay for a cup of coffee in a diner or a cup of coffee at home, right? So they have a brand that has gone way beyond commodity status. Commodity is, I'm at the grocery store. Here are the different coffees that I normally choose from in my consideration set. Which one is the cheapest this week? That's a commodity. And that is not what you engender loyalty from and repeat purchases and high profit margins. That doesn't happen there. Then you are really just like it's the barrel to the race to the bottom of the barrel. Right? That's not a fun place to be in.

It's not. And through my expert authority effect publishing program, it's one thing we work with the authors on because it's like anyone can say, well I do this, I do this. There's 400,000 when one different businesses in a specific niche. But you don't want to be competing over that space that everyone is. So you know, one of the things we, we go through and in my book chapter two is all related to positioning. And I love that you work with Jaguar, BMW, Ferrari because they, I actually name them also their premium products in a premium space. When you, you know, doesn't every car have four wheels? Isn't it all. They all going to get you from point A to point B, you know, what about Rao's, right? Did I get it right now?

Yes, yes.

Rao's Homemade. You know, how are they different than any other?

I don't want to name someone else because I really don't like putting others down. But there's two that come to mind that everyone could probably name that start with an R and a P that, you know, someone might not think they're bad, someone might love them. But at the end of the day there's premium products and there's not. Why would you want to be a premium product? And what are the advantages to it?

And also not just premium, right? There are lots of great brands that aren't premium, but they own something as a brand, right? Do I think that you know that Dunkin Donuts is a premium brand? I don't think so, but I think they're an amazing brand. Right. And that's the.

Do you think them removing donuts now and just going by Dunkin, anyone's going to think any one iota of difference or McDonald's selling a salad.

No, I don't think so, but I understand it's very interesting, right? The whole Dunkin Donuts thing, moving from really they were about donuts to embracing being about coffee. I don't know that they would have seen that was the real opportunity for them had it not been for their competitor Starbucks. Right. Like, they helped each other ladder up. And that is what brands do as well, you see. Oh, they've got this part now. I can change my brand this way. And changing your brand is also important, right? Reexamining your brand after significant changes in the marketplace. I mean, I don't know. Pandemic, hello, hugest change ever in our lifetimes, affected every single brand on the market. But not every single brand is going, oh, how should I change? Like, what is my point of differentiation? Now, that's really relevant to my audience that had a lot of changes in their lives that I can execute in a way that is easy and meaningful for them. Now, a lot of brands aren't reexamining that now. And if there's ever been a time to do it, it's been now.

Where do you think it's going to be in the next 10 years, regardless of what happens with society? Because there's some things that are coming to mind right now. One of them, it's not. I don't really. Let me. I'll let you answer the question first. Where do you think it's going?

I'm curious. I want to hear what you were thinking there.

It's a. It's a company that I don't really like what they sell, with one exception. And it's not something I drink all the time. But they. There's a lot of companies, I noticed, even before everything shifted, they just redid the branding. The brand is Mountain Dew. They went from Mountain Dew to mtnd. Like, they kept shortening it and shortening it. The one exception is Baja Blast on occasion, very limited, but I've curbed that for decades now. But anyway, I've noticed just brands going shorter and shorter and shorter. And I noticed it about a decade ago with all the texting and Twittering and all this. It's like, really, we can't think past three words now. Or like, June, the month of June, we got to abbreviate June because it's four letters instead of three. Like, our attention spans don't last. What's your take on this? Because that's a lot of branding messaging and, you know, competing for attention, like we're talking about.

I think there are two things about that. One is that, yes, I do think that attention spans have become shorter and shorter, or is it that there's so much more content out there that really isn't engaging and intriguing and meaningful? I don't know. Maybe we're just really trying to sort through it really quickly. You know, that that could be part of it. And yeah, we had the KFCs, you know, Kentucky Chicken move over. We saw that, you know, that trend start happening and, you know, Twitter and, you know, online things and Insta and short. Short, short. Like we shorten words constantly. But what does that mean? That also means there's an opportunity to stand out. You can have the really long name. Then, you know, we have the big phones and now they're, you know, Apple has the Minis that are the same size as my phone from seven years ago, basically. So as trends come and go, I think that, you know, brands hop on and hop off the trend bandwagon and that's fine. But. But yes, I think the idea that what's coming in the future, we see that people are very overloaded with digital fatigue. We know they want to find out about things digitally. So I think having better content, having more curated, better paths for people to go down so that they can have a deeper experience is the most important thing that brands, once they're differentiated, can figure out how to do. It's just we're so overwhelmed. It's too much. I mean, the rabbit hole. The rabbit hole is fun. When you go down it and you're having a good time and you're finding interesting stuff, it's bad. And you're like, not that, not that, not that.

I like that. Yeah. If you're relaxing or having a party or something, it's like, let's see how interesting we can make this. But when you're trying to get something done, you don't want to jump through 27 hoops.

No, you don't. And interestingly, right. When you really need some very specific information, maybe it's, you know, you've got a medical condition, you really want to research it. That's when you'll dive and you'll spend the time and go, you know, to page 27. Right. On Google. Like, you'll go through it, but that's the only time you'll do that. And brands who think that they'll be discovered if they're on page 27 or two aren't having to do with that. Yeah. Or even page two. Yeah. To your point, you're right.

Yeah. On one of the last episodes with Deb Coviello, we were talking about frictionless customer service. And I think it's a great expert authority insight you bring up. Are our attention spans actually shorter or is just the content not that engaging anymore? I'm going to say the latter. I don't really truthfully think people are dumber nowadays or have less of attention spans. I think we're coming out, our minds are more creative and innovative than ever and we have the resources at a time in society where we can actually do something with them. There was a lot of points, especially with automobiles. Who else calls it that? Does anyone else around the country or world call them automobiles or is it just a Detroit thing?

I think it's mostly a Detroit thing. It's all car.

Wow. I just felt like I was from the 1880s. Okay. Whether we're talking about vehicles, cars, automobiles, or a trolley, apparently I'm thinking of jets, specifically stealth technology. They invented some of this stuff in the 40s and 50s, but technology had to take 40, 50 years to catch up, be able to compensate for the lack of aerodynamics and different things. We can Basically, we have 3D printing nowadays. So I want to challenge that and dive deeper because that just. I really like what you said. I don't think our attention spans are shorter. I think people are just making less engaging content.

They are, I think. Well, I mean, whenever you're, you're, you know, in the forefront of a trend, you'll have more awareness. Right. So the first people that were using Instagram influencers, the first people that were doing inbound with, you know, content, maybe they were tricking the search engines with hidden words or anything. That was great. The first people were making content videos. But now everybody makes videos all day long. They don't. They don't stand out the way they used to be. Does that mean that you shouldn't have them? No, but it means that the whole experience should be carefully curated. You can't just throw stuff up there and expect, you know, people to sift through it and think that you're a great brand. It doesn't work that way. So to me, the idea of defining your brand, having this great, articulated, differentiated brand, and then the experience, executing it by what makes sense for you now, right? If suddenly, you know, if you were doing great with inbound marketing, for instance, and now it's not working as well, that's because everybody else is doing the exact same thing now. Well, you got to, you got to change it up. And that's, that's on the brand, that's on the marketers, that's, that's on, you know, figuring out what the opportunities out there to take advantage of. But doesn't mean that your brand isn't still your brand. It's just, you're finding different ways to express yourself.

How do you help people? If they want to take that leap but never have, how do you help them do that? And what have you noticed from the people. How can I phrase this without offending anyone? For the people that keep. Do you have anyone that keeps kind of recircling once or twice a year, but they never move forward versus the people who do and you actually end up working with. What's the difference between the two different groups of people?

We don't have a lot of the former because I do not try to convince people that they need us. In fact, if they come to us expecting us to try to convince them of that, I will convince them the other way. If you aren't convinced that you need help with your brand and your marketing, then I don't want to work with you because there's. I call it the uncomfortable stretch. Right. Stretching is great for a minute or two or, you know, if you do yoga and you can hold it maybe five minutes, that's a long stretch. But when people are stretching to try to accomplish something they really aren't sure about, you know, and. And the agency is stretching to try to help them because they're really not sure, that becomes very uncomfortable very quickly.

The best results. I agree 100%. Same thing with our publishing clients for our concierge packages. It's like, if you already know why a book is beneficial and why you should have one, you just need to know how to execute on it. Awesome. If you're like, tell me why I should have one. There's enough out there that you should be at that point already.

And there's. There's plenty of good content as well as bad content, but there is plenty of good content out there, for sure.

Same thing with videos. Same thing with branding and everything. I mean, I see examples of it all. Again, just another example. Last night I saw a menu that came in the mail, and I was like, wow. It's someone I would have worked with 15, 20 years ago, but not now.

Yeah. Interesting.

So how. What are some of your criteria? So they need to be interested. They need to know they need the marketing. But is there any other differentiators where you go, I need them to be at this place or we need to be able to. What do you look for? Knowing you can help them the most?

Yeah, we look for companies who understand the value of a powerful brand and who are willing to put in the effort that it takes to get there because it means doing things differently than you're doing it. Right now, it's the whole insanity definition, right? You know, everybody wants to be in great shape, but if you don't actually put the work in, your shape is going to be the same as today, or maybe worse.

Round is a shape.

Round is a shape, and there's nothing wrong with it.

But I mean that those are so those things. And what that also means for us is they have to be willing to be a good partner, right? They have to be open to change.

And we have to be able to be honest with each other. One of our core values is embracing honesty. It doesn't do anyone any service for us to say, yes, we'll do it, that's what you want, that's what we'll do. That's not why they're coming to us, that you can go and go online with a freelancer if that's what you want. Nothing against freelancers. They serve a very important purpose. And some companies can't afford an agency or don't want change or. And that's, that's their prerogative. But the companies who are looking to make their brand stronger, who recognize the value of having a stronger brand and are willing to do the work and be a good partner all day, like, come to me all day long. That's who I want to work with. And, you know, having my own company, that's all I get to work with, because that's who I choose.

That is one of the most powerful things because I think so many entrepreneurs think someone reached out to me, someone contacted me, someone emailed me. We have to work with them. And I would vehemently say the answer is no. You can choose to, but you don't need to. And the beauty of.

And we've made that mistake.

What's that?

We've made that mistake before. You know, that's something early on, in early days, we would think that way, like, ooh, someone came to us that we never heard of. Oh, that sounds interesting. How'd they find out about us? They must be good for us. And of course, good for the bottom line. But you know what? It really isn't. And I'll tell you why it isn't good for the bottom line, because it kills morale. When you have somebody that isn't a good client, that isn't a good partner, it generally doesn't produce the greatest work.

And ultimately it takes longer to, to produce poorer work and have a poor impact on your team and the profit margin isn't there and you're actually taking profit away from your great clients. To serve this client that really shouldn't be on your roster.

That's a good point. And I think more people need to know that, because unless you're like us and already done it, done it, did it, have gone through it, then you realize it. But that's one reason I love reading books and publishing them and listening to audiobooks, podcasts, and all this because the quote is something like, experience is learning from your mistakes, but wisdom is learning from others.

Yeah, I wish I was wiser.

I mean, just so many things. It's like, here, let me save you five years or a decade or two.

Yeah. You know, I will say that for a bunch of years now, I've been a part of an organization called Entrepreneurs Organization eo. And it's definitely. That has been my biggest source of business wisdom, where I've learned from others and, you know, their shares on what has worked and what hasn't worked. And. And the what hasn't worked has probably been even the more valuable shares for me to learn.

Yeah, what's. What's the other one? Success is a poor teacher. It seduces you to thinking that you can't mess up. You can a lot.

Oh, yeah, it can all go away.

What's one of your biggest takeaways from learning? You said you've learned a lot from others and eo, great organization. What's been your biggest takeaway from that?

I think one of the biggest takeaways for me from that is not trying to do everything that you know, especially when you're a young entrepreneur and you're talented and you feel like, oh, I can do this, I can do that, and you start spreading beyond the areas that have this overlapping, you know, Venn diagram inside of. I love doing this. I'm great at this. Like, everything else is what you should get other people to do.

So you're saying have a team in place, don't try to be a solopreneur.

Well, it doesn't work for me, I'll tell you that. I definitely have to have a team in place, and I have an amazing team.

I agree 100%, and I do, too. I'm excited for the new people I just brought on as well, because we're growing, and I think that's a good thing. You can help more people.

That's fantastic. Congratulations. Yeah, we are, too. And I think that, as, you know, as we hopefully come out of this pandemic, I do think that more people are recognizing the value of their brands. Especially as we were talking earlier, since digital discovery is so Important, more important than ever. Now we don't have the opportunity to get in front of people the way we used to. So really refining, you know, how do we do this digitally in a way that is meaningful versus skip.

Let's talk about the digital side. And I want to go back, I want to ask you a couple things and play devil's advocate. S3 agency. Where'd you get the S3 from?

So the S3 stands for system of threes. The smallest pattern that the brain can remember is three. That's why like, you know, ready, aim, fire, and it's three. People walk into a bar. It's three is the smallest pattern. And getting people to remember your brand is very much about having some sort of a pattern that goes out there that you have clarified what your brand is and getting that message from other people. Now they say you need to hear things 7, 8, 9 times before you actually remember it. And that the first time you hear something is probably the seventh time you've heard it. Which is mind blowing to me. I don't know if that's true or not. I'm not a scientist. But it makes me think that pattern has to be strong and memorable.

That is interesting. And I've heard the. You have to hear it seven, eight times. And now people with the attention Spans, now it's 10 or 12, and you need 15 follow ups. And you know, there's so many stats, I think it's just don't be. What's the word? Obscure. You know, you need that repetition. But that's intriguing about ready, aim, fire. The three. I did not know that was the smallest denomination. But I'm thinking of it in Copywriting for Alliteration.

When you're doing like three words in a row with the same. I put something in my book and make sure your prose is polished. There was some other sentence in there about perfecting your. Whatever it was, it was good. It's in one of the pages. But I remember, you know, you want to rhyme stuff so it's easier to remember. I thought I did not know it was three, though. That's fascinating.

Yeah.

So that's where your title. That's where your name came from.

That is where our name came from. Yeah.

So here's the devil's advocate part. No, no, no, that's coming up. That's something else I have to ask you. But you mentioned three earlier and you kind of did it so nonchalantly because I know you're the expert with this. You mentioned the three things I thought it had Something to do with that. That's why I asked. It sounds like you have a three step process.

Oh, we do. So there's a lot of threes around here. We're big fans. Good things do come in threes, right? That's another saying, but it is true in many cases. So we have a process that we call brand elevation. And it specifically, it's the foundational, strategic brand positioning work that, you know, if you think of an iceberg, right, the brand iceberg, the stuff on top is what everyone sees, but all the stuff underneath. Getting that right allows all of your marketing communications to be aligned and more powerful and reaching the right people in the right way. So our brand elevation process is all about that foundational work. And it's a, it's a proprietary process. We've been doing it for 20 years and it has three phases. And the first phase is discovery, where we get as much pre information as we can and we have homework assignments that we give to our clients for them to fill out and, you know, exercises that they do. Then we have the second phase, which is the Brand Elevation workshop. And that's where we bring everyone together now, oftentimes virtually, although we have so many going on over the next three weeks in person, again, which is really exciting. But we bring people together and we take them through a curated series of exercises that is designed to bring their brains together and give us the data that isn't just the data that's available on paper. It's the data that's in their heads and in their hearts about their brands. That information that nobody else could know. And it's interesting to see. And we always, there's been zero times this hasn't happened. We always see.

People have these kind of like looks of amazement as they hear the very different things that each of them think the brand means. And that's very, very eye opening. And we help to pull insights out. Pull insights out. And then we return to them with the alignment. And the alignment is our team goes through everything that we've heard, the research we've done, the opportunities for them to stand out, and we recommend to them their strategic brand positioning path of where they can stand out, where they can be authentically differentiated. Right. That they can truly claim and work with that is relevant to their desired target audience. Because if it's not relevant, it doesn't matter how different you are, if it doesn't matter to the people you want buying your stuff and then that they can truly execute again. The are like, why are you. We help them Figure that out. And that is a process that can, it can be as fast as four to six weeks. It can take a few months. It depends on, you know, how quickly we get there. But usually it's, you know, I would say, you know, two, two months.

That's pretty good time frame. Less than a quarter.

Yeah, yeah. Because then, right then what you need to do is think, okay, then we can have all of the milestones they need to hit in order to execute this and what are the taxes are going to do. So then we're figuring that out, helping them figure that out. And one of the biggest things that brands need to do that I think gets sometimes the smallest amount of attention is really circulating it and getting everyone on board. Like the people who are in the brand elevation workshop, they're on board, right? They're all aligned. But the whole organization needs to be part of it. They need to live it, breathe it. Everyone who they interact with needs to feel like, oh, I got that brand experience. So, you know, figuring out how that touches each of them and how they're a part of it, that's really, really important. And something else. So this is something that we're really working with brands on right now that you've heard, I'm sure of. Like the pre tirement wave of people retiring early because Covid made them think, you know what, I'm just done. I'm going to just go live my life now. I don't need to work anymore. As well as the great resignation epidemic going on right now where people are resigning because they're unhappy, they're unhappy where they work and they're like, you know, life is too short, I should be happy, move on.

So one of the things that great brands, everyone knows a great brand commands loyalty from customers. Right? You created this experience. Customers want to be part of it. It's, you know, it's a love fest. But a great brand also commands loyalty from an employee standpoint. So there is a really, really important reason to improve brands right now. Because when people are brought in that they feel a part of an articulated brand differentiation, a mission that they can get behind something that they know how they impact. That's powerful. Right? Because the reality is, unless you're leaving the company you're working at right now, to go to a company like that, you're probably going to end up unhappy over there too. The grass isn't always greener unless you truly have a company that does value their brand and what it means to their employee and bring them all into it.

That's a good point. You know, a lot of people think, oh, I'm thinking people back even 20, 30 years ago, and they're like, oh, I wish I lived here. I wish I lived there. And then, you know, oh, I wish I worked here. I wish I did this. And the grass is greener where you water it. If you love someplace on vacation right now. Well, yeah, because you're not working, you're having fun and you can relax every day. I don't care where you live. If that's your life, you're probably going to like it more than wherever you're at now doing something you despise.

Yeah, it's a good point. It's, it's pretty easily.

Oh, I love going to here. Well, yeah, the only experience you've ever had in your life for two decades or three decades or four is vacation. But go sit in an office nine to five, sitting in the sun with the beach out the window. Yeah, it's gonna be great.

So what do you think is gonna happen over the next five to ten years of everything shifting around and, you know, it's reminding me a lot of.08 where people are going, you know what? I'm gonna start my own thing. I think there's a huge jump in entrepreneurial ism. Entrepreneurship. People going, I've had this on my mind for 20. I know a lot of people. They were at 15 to 30, 20 years. 30 years I was doing XYZ and then they went, I'm going to do my own thing. I've always wanted to. I just never took the leap, if you will.

I think that the world is different now. Well, in many ways. But it's, it's set up now for more of that, you know, kind of the, like the uber mentality, right, where you can do things partially. We have, we have freelance world now. And so people can more easily go out on their own without worrying about, like, oh, I'm going to start a company. I got to hire people like, like, that's, that's very daunting. And that's. They're not looking to add that extra stress to their lives. But some of them are going, you know what? Yeah, maybe I can work freelance and then I'll control and maybe I'll, I'll work, you know, for two different companies or 10 different companies. They want some sort of, of reliable income, right? We all want that. But if they can't figure it out at their office in a way that they feel good or at their place of employment, then they can Take more control and, you know, but with that comes risk. Right? There's always risk with everything. But I think the other thing right now is it's going to be harder and harder to find employees. We're all hearing about that. And starting a company right now, if you're going to rely on having a lot of employees, might be difficult. It's probably more difficult than in 2008, I would say.

You think people just changed and shifted. And even so, for the people who started the companies like us, we took the leap. We decided we want to do our own thing. Cool. Yay for us. But do you think the employees are going, I want to rethink this whole thing, how I'm working also, because I would feel like in the past, we need employees, we can get them, we can find people to work. And now it's like, I think if the. Whether they want to start a business or not, that's everyone's prerogative. But I think they're even rethinking some things, like, do I really want to go back for this, this, or this?

I think people are very much looking to find ways to reduce stress in their lives. Right. We are living in a super stressful world, whether it's, you know, health wise, political wise, socio. Like, there's just lots of more pressures than there were, you know, any time in my life before this. And I feel that if people look at it and go, I can have a better quality of life doing this, they're willing to give up some income for a better quality of life.

But they have to really think through, will it be a better quality of life? Because just. Because for the next six months, freelancers are going to be in high demand, does that mean six months after that they're going to have steady income? Right. So it's all a trade off of what they feel will make their lives better. But I would say it's a key time for people to talk to their employers, tell them what they want, how they can make it better, and be part of that solution. Not just like, come in, you know, everything sucks. Yeah, the world is tough right now, but what can we do to make things better for you here or for our customers here? How can we be better together? And I think employers who embrace that, and part of that is having a better brand where everyone is aligned around something and feels important. I think that's. That's the best thing that employers can do right now.

I agree 100%. And after my little ramble there of what I was trying to figure out to say. I think summing it up would be, I don't think the paycheck is a standard like before. If someone paid you on time, people were kind of happy. I think the standard has been elevated. And you articulated it very well with. They want to be part of something more.

Yeah, absolutely. We all do. Right. We all want to feel like we're part of something. And feeling like part of the solution is way better than feeling like part of the problem.

Yeah. I don't know too many people that I'm thinking of some people who just really despised what they did, never wanted. And I tried to ask them if you ever thought about starting a business, but they. They didn't even like being a cog in the wheel, even though they knew they were. They just knew it was going to be there. And it just. It just kept spinning. I mean, I was. I mean, for years, I'm like, really? You're going to do this the next 40, 50 years? Really? 70.

It's. There's no reason. There's no reason to live like that. Right. But. But I also think that the whole jumping ship isn't necessarily the greatest way either. It's, you know, it's like. Like with a relationship, you know, depends.

On the person and the timing. It's, you know, someone I heard years ago, like, even Tarzan, you know, he doesn't let go of the one branch until he's hanging on to the new one. I can't say I've done that all the time. Sometimes it's work, sometimes it's not. But ultimately it's like, I, you know, I think we, as successful entrepreneurs, just know we. I said this in the book, too. I like. I.

Don'T love what I don't like.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's true.

If you don't like something, you got to do something. Might not be today or this week, but don't keep doing it for months on end. Huh?

Yeah. So it's funny that you mentioned that about Tarzan, because there is. There's a big mantra that I've heard a lot of times in EO which is let go of the rope. You have to trust that someone else is going to get it.

You do have to let go at some point.

You do. And you have to. You have to build your company and your brand around the idea that you have a team that will do that and let them do that. Don't, like, hold on the rope while they're holding the rope and they can't swing the whole idea of it, which it is interesting. But bringing it back to. And this is very relevant to branding as well. Having that faith that people will grab onto your brand if you do all of this stuff, which, again, change is scary, but not changing is so much scarier.

Yeah. There's this analogy I heard years ago about someone messed up in the company and they're like, you know, one of the managers was like, we need to let him or her go. And the other one was like, no, we're going to keep them and train them better. And it's like.

Had to do with the training going, well, what if we put all this money into the training and they go somewhere else and the other one goes, what if we don't? And they stay.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard that, too. And which that is. You know, it is very easy to get caught up in the former thinking because you're saving the money. Right. But. But that is the Pennywise pound.

But is it really saving?

No, no, it's not. It's not. And ultimately. Right. We all want to be our best. I hope we want to do our best. And it can be difficult. And there are a lot of factors at work. And, you know, having a business and a brand that, you know, it's easy to feel like, oh, it doesn't matter what I do, it's never going to be different. But it does matter. It really does matter because it will be different. It's just if you're not pushing it forward, you probably won't be happy where you wish you were, where you are now.

Yeah. I don't know if I heard it or came up with it years ago or whatever, but I've said for a while.

Enjoy the journey, because right now, this was my dream. And with the show, I can count it. You know, I remember when I had four episodes, not 400, and it was like, man, I wish I could just have 10 or 50. And now it's like, oh, there's 72 in the can. That's cool. Like, I have more that are unreleased that then even were produced initially on We're Living Our Dream right now from two, three years ago.

And that. But that didn't happen by accident. You had a plan, you broke it down, you had the steps. And it's the same with everything. It's the same with, you know, your manufacturing process or your sales process, and it needs to be the same with the brand process. And for some reason, there are so many companies that feel like, oh, we were doing marketing. Okay, but what's the marketing rooted in? You know, the marketing is important. I love doing the marketing. It's awesome. But if you're doing a campaign that doesn't have this strategic foundation, you know, your mark, your marketing really shouldn't be, again, about, like, throwing spaghetti on the wall, even if you have rare sauce for it.

It's just. Yep, that's great.

Yeah. You don't want to piecemeal it, that's for sure. So I have that devil's advocate question because you said something early on that the branding, not the branding doesn't matter. The logo doesn't matter.

So is there a second side to that coin? Because I'm like, smiling, looking at this, going, so does this mean I can throw this out, take my tied shirt off and leave the studio?

So the logo should reflect a great brand.

Okay.

Logo will never make your brand great.

Oh, that.

That. That is where that says, you know, the example my go to is always Nike. Right. Amazing brand. Amazing. The Swoosh is. Is not an amazing logo. Right. It's not like someone. But what's amazing about it is that they have consistently been a great brand and that Swoosh has come to stand for that. So, you know, you're not going to solve your company's problems by changing your logo. I mean, look, if you have something that is, you know, politically incorrect logo, of course you need to tend to that. But that aside, you know, there are many great brands that don't have great logos and many great logos that do not a great brand have.

So I can keep this?

You can keep it.

Okay. And that's. I just wanted to. I figured there was a flip side to it, but I know someone listening could go, I guess we don't need to do anything with the logo. I get. You know, because you could do a blanket statement and be like, well, if the brand. If the logo doesn't matter and the website doesn't matter and this doesn't matter, or the. The book, the audiobook, the podcast, the flyer, the magazine, the graphic, none of it. If none of it matters. Well, yeah, but when you figure it out and you're doing it within your framework and you start doing each one at the highest level now, what happens?

Right? And you know, and I would say, like, there are companies that come to us that we know they're never going to change their logo, so it's not a consideration. And unless their logo is egregious, considering what their positioning is, it doesn't matter. However, if you are redoing your positioning and you're like, we've always wanted to change our logo and this is really, it's the opposite of what we're trying to say. Well, then it's time to change it. And there can be, you know, every brand, not every brand, but lots of brands go through minor changes. Now it's 3D because everyone's got a 3D logo now it's really flat.

And then they went flat again. Google switched it up. It was like boring, stupid, fancy. Now we're going back to simple.

Yeah, simple as in. Right. But, but they're recognizable. Right. So they're, they're not radically changed. And even if they did radically change it, they would still have the brand that they have. Right. And they have such a reach that we would know the problem comes when you don't have a huge reach. Right. And people, if you are relying on a quick visual recognition of your logo and you change it, that, that can be a problem. That's really more of a packaging issue like for consumer packaged goods and things like that.

Yeah. Well, I appreciate you breaking, breaking all this down, Dunkin. Yeah. Now they're a health food store.

There's another one. I'm hesitant to say it because they already got mad at me, but there's another big company that went more cerebral or meta, you could say. And.

I'll just leave that alone. I'm going to ask you a couple more things. Who is your biggest success story?

Oh, my biggest success story.

I have many that I'm proud of, but I will share with you. My, my favorite one has that. And my favorite one.

There we go.

My favorite one is it's a local zoo. So I mean, I've worked with, you know, some amazing international automotive luxury brands. I've, I've worked with retail, I've worked with consumer packaged goods, but this is called their Turtle Back Zoo. They are in New Jersey and we helped them. They had completely, they, they were there for many, many years and they had kind of devolved into kind of like a roadside zoo. And the, the county executive, rather than closing it, decided to really take it down to studs. Rebuilt the zoo. Amazing. AZA accredited, which is what like the Bronx Zoo is San Diego's part of this international conservation effort. Just really tremendous. And they had been doing advertising and local PR and nobody was going. They were having very few visitors and they couldn't understand why. So they came to us and we helped them really dig into it. We did our brand elevation process with them and where we ended up with them was the world in your backyard. But we had to make the movement feel bigger, but tactically to bring that differentiation to life in a meaningful way. We recognize that. I don't know if it's a Jersey thing, I think it's a human thing, but definitely a Jersey thing. That we're pretty cynical here. If that zoo had opened and had never existed before, it would have been flooded. Everybody would have been going there all the time. But because it had been there before and had been kind of run down, all the ads locally in the world weren't going to say to us that we should go. They were like, yeah, that's, that's, you know, I don't believe that. Right. Because the brand hadn't been reborn yet. So in addition to doing some of the work locally, we went on a national level. We took this whole world in your backyard approach and we did PR for them nationally as thought experts and we got them on Good morning America Today show, ap and so what had happened? And I, it's so funny that you're in Detroit because I remember specifically people from Michigan contacting people in Jersey saying, we just saw stuff about your zoo and that pride that local people that were previously like two minutes earlier, very cynical. I'm never going there. That's right. That's my zoo. And it just was transformational. I mean it's 10x visitors, it's huge build ons. It just continued to grow. Now, did we make the brand grow? No, the brand had a plan for growth. We helped them figure out who they should be. Helped them get out there the right way to achieve the milestones they were looking to achieve. And they've executed as truly being this world. Nearby yard. They continue to add these amazing exhibits there, make sure the animals are treated incredibly well. They're educating a part of this environmental conservation effort. They really are what they say they are. We just help them articulate it.

That is fantastic. People don't. I, I feel people nowadays have lost the art of copywriting and they don't realize the importance of messaging. I've done presentations where I touch upon it and pull out $100 bill and a $1 bill from my pocket and I go, what's the difference between these? And everyone's like, you know, one's crinkled one. The messaging, arguably they're probably worth the same, but the only difference is the message that's printed on the front of the paper. It's not paper, it's cotton. I know that, but I mean people don't realize it. That is a phenomenal success story. And for A great cause, too.

Yeah. Yeah. So I, I'm so glad you asked that question because it's, you know, not everything we do is about a huge international brand you've heard of. And in fact, I would say, like, the brands that, that really need a lot of help aren't those brands. You know, they don't have the money to go out there and beat people over the head with advertising. Messaging.

Yeah. What's your ad budget for the year? $99 billion. Okay. You shouldn't have a problem running a couple extra commercials. But when someone goes, hey, we have. And I don't want to put a price tag on it, but when they have smaller budgets, you know, and they're still trying, they're legitimately trying to grow, everyone is. But it's like, yeah, when you don't have a national budget, it's hard. Plain and simple.

It is. And all of these DDCs, all the direct to consumer brands that have, you know, been springing up, they need to be really differentiated because again, the first ones that did it, great, you're Warby Parker. You were out there ahead of the curve. That's awesome. But there's a whole lot more in it. And just because you're doing what Warburton Parker did doesn't mean it's going to work for you. So you have to, you got to figure out that messaging so that every dollar you spend really is maximized and so that you can release the power of your brand. You don't have to spend as much when you have a more powerful message. You don't.

Yeah. That's the other thing is, even if you are, you know, okay, I got 10,000 million dollars to throw on ads. Great. You're wasting 95% because you have no clue what you're doing. It's the spray and prayer.

Yeah, that's the worst.

I'm glad you use that one. Because I've noticed over the years I always ask people about the biggest transformation success story, and I've noticed very few have actually been like, well, let me tell you, I work with Ferrari and, you know, you could rattle off hundreds. I have no doubt. But I'm glad and thankful one, for you being here and sharing this, but two, because I try to bring people on that I know they're ultra successful, but also they have heart. You could use anyone in the world as an example. And you're one of.

You're one that stands out for goes, oh, let me tell you about the success story. And it wasn't about you and it wasn't about one of the hundreds of major companies you talked about. And when you said turtle back, I actually have a pet turtle. And so that's why I was like, what kind of turtle is fantastic? Painted? Had them 28 years now.

Amazing. Amazing.

He's older than my niece.

So yeah, that's. That's fantastic. So I have one more fun thing. This whole thing's been fun. I gotta not say fun thing, but this is.

Speaking of animals, this is a hamster wheel I painted a few years ago. It's the wheel of whatever for the show. Yellow or black?

Black.

Okay, Black. So my question for you, I think I might be able to get away with this this time. So I'm going to ask you, are you going to say yes or no?

No.

You're going to say no. You're not going to tell. You're not going to answer it?

Okay. Oh, no, I'll answer.

Okay. So I'm going to ask something. Tell me something you've never told anyone.

Something I've never told anyone. Wow, that's a tough one. I like what you see is what you get. I. I'm a talker. So what have I not told anyone?

I could more easily tell you something.

That has nothing to do with work. I just, I don't know what.

Please do, because the other options I usually go to. Who's someone you haven't worked with that you'd love to or where would you like to travel? Just some. It doesn't need to be business or anything. It could be. I tried to go off. I've asked conspiracy theory stuff in the past before, so that's hysterical. I. It's basically, that's my carte blanche opportunity to make up whatever I want. And I'm like, I think she might answer.

So, yeah, I wish I had. I wish I was more secretive, but I'm not. So everything's out there. But I would love, love, love to work with Bombas socks. They are my all time favorite brand.

Okay.

I'm wearing them right now. I wear them every day.

No kidding. Yeah. Well, that's fantastic. Well, thank you for that. Yeah, I interjected that a few years ago. I was talking about it on a few episodes. I was joking early on going, oh, I should get something that I can spin. And then that came about and it's just, it's been kind of like a thing throughout. But it's fun.

You do a tactical question so you can pull it out, you know.

Well, here's the deal with that. There's Two things I still want to do. One is have it clicky, click, clicky. So that way, if you're listening to the audio, I don't want to hit the mic.

Ooh, I could do that. I want a way where it like clicks so you can hear it. But the other thing is I originally was going to put questions on it and then I just started using it this while I was working on the questions. But I feel like it's too limiting. Like I literally have made stuff up on the fly based on stuff you've said in the last 10, 15 minutes where I'm like, oh, that's the new question. That's much better than where would you like to travel to? Because most everyone, as fun as that is, everyone I have on is successful. They'll be like, oh man, where haven't I traveled? Oh God, you know what I mean? So maybe I'll interject it, put something on there, you know, was the moon landing real? We'll see what happens.

Yes, it was.

All right, so I am going to thank the sponsor again and we'll be back for the imperfect action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours, and it's true. And that's why I'm launching my new book@eapublishingmethodbook.com so you can learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having.

An idea and a possibility to actually getting my book published.

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Mom number one best selling author.

Or Mary Alice, what he got done.

For me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable.

John Cody. I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful in getting me where I needed to go with promoting my books.

Rocio, there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process. Adele, if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner. I can't make a higher recommendation than to work with Mario Ficini.

He has been great for me and.

Right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get your copy. And I look forward to hearing your transformation as our next video success story. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com and what do you know? We're back for the imperfect action round. Denise, are you ready to take imperfect action?

I'm ready.

I got three questions for you. 60 second or less answers. What is the fastest path to the cache?

The riches are in the niches. Be very, very precise.

Love that. Two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

The biggest problem I see them making is being afraid to commit to differentiation. They want to be something to everything, and they can't be. So the way to fix that is to go through a process, whether it's our brand elevation or not, but to go find an agency and really go through that.

Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Oh, well, I mean, to be truly differentiated and make your company truly deliver on that promise. When you make your clients happy and they understand that you are different than your competitors, that's the way to keep them coming back.

Excellent. Great question. Great answers to. I would like to think they're great.

Questions, but that's very good questions.

Great, Great answers. So one of my favorite things to do is read books and publish books for people. And I want to talk about books. You mentioned some earlier, and I think I know one you'll mention because you mentioned something else and that was very cryptic and I didn't say anything. For anyone listening, you're welcome. What books have impacted your life and business the most?

So one of the books that has impacted my life is Get a Grip, which is the whole entrepreneurial operating system traction. So that has been. Yeah, yeah, that one has. Has impacted our business a lot and helped us to really figure out our processes and how to move forward together. That's been very important for me. And then there's. There are a bunch of other books, but they're not all business books.

That's.

I mean, I would. Yeah. So I would say some of the other books that have meant a lot to me are like kids books. I'm big on kids books, so almost any Dr. Seuss book, if I'm feeling down, I will read that. And it reminds me at my core, you know, it's not all about business. And bringing in some of those life lessons helps make you be a better business person. So whether it's anything, you know, like the places you will go that's a huge one for me to think about. Any of them that those are probably more of my North Star than any business book.

Excellent. Where would you like people to learn more?

People can just go to our website s3 agency. So letter s like SAM number three like the number three dot agency.

Is that like SAM?

I am kind of like Sam.

I am.

Denise, it's been a pleasure. I know I got a lot out of this. Thank you for sharing.

Oh, thank you so much for having me on, Mari. It was really great talking to you. I really appreciate it.

All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day and God bless.

You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate qualified leads while increasing profit for you 247 and if so, how well are you promoting it? With my new book, the Expert Authority Effect Publishing Method, I take you through my process step by step. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get started. Now. Once again, that's eapublishing method book.com thanks for listening to today's episode. I would love to know what you enjoyed most from it if you haven't done so already. I invite you to connect with me on my new LinkedIn. You can go to it directly at eainterviews.com LinkedIn Once again, that's eainterviews.com LinkedIn. Lastly, check out the full eainterviews.com site for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you on the next one.