0427 | John Robertson

I AM John Robertson, Fort Log Services. Fortlog Co is the domain and you are listening to EA interviews.

EA interviews episode 427 inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week. Join Mario Ficcini for today's Expert Authority Effect interview. I love people and it's one reason I do what I do. Whether it's helping them publish their book, get their message out, have this show, I get to talk to people and I've always had a heart for them and helping successful people share their knowledge with other people who are striving to be in that position. And it's always been curious to me when let's go back to middle school, high school, it's like oh, Johnny did this, Sally did that. And it's like, well one of them was like revered and the other one was vilified and I was like, this is kind of weird because they both did the same thing and even more so in business and people's reactions and how you treat them in the workplace. First off, I've always treated them nice, even if they are stupid and don't deserve it. Like you should always have grace. And you know, you're not perfect either. But it's always been interesting to me when you have these organizations that are like you're fired but you're promoted. It's like bro, we did the same thing. And that's why I'm excited to have John Robertson on the show today. He is the founder of Fort Log Services and the author of Run towards the Roar. And he helps people understand these situations better and he's going to help you right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. And that's why I'm launching my new book to help you regardless of where you think your current writing abilities are. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's eapublishing Method book dot com. Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, John Robertson. John, how are you feeling today?

I'm doing great and I watched some of the preface and I'm thinking, wow, there's some neat stories here. So I'm looking forward to contributing to your listeners. This is awesome.

I'm excited to have you share your experience because there's something I've noticed multiple times with you now and I didn't even bring it up in the pre chat, but just how you, you know, how you treat situations that could Be constried. Constried. When bad situations arise, I see how you handle them. And I, you know, I appreciate the compliment you paid me about how I handle things, but at the same token, there's things I've noticed about you. And, you know, this is what you do is help people in the workplace. Go, go understand these situations and do better with it. Right?

Absolutely. And part of what you put your finger on is there's cliches and quotes that people share, but living it is a very different discussion.

Oh, tell me more.

Five in five years. What is going to matter? Mario, before the show, you and I were chatting about two men that we both honored and who are gone now. But what was it about them that we honored? Probably wasn't the letters after their name or their title.

But it was the what's inside, who they were. Who they were.

Absolutely 100%.

Yep.

And that's a great point you make up about the letters and the name and everything. And I was actually just saying the other day, it's like, actually yesterday, you know, attracting people to you in business, everyone wants more business. It's like, well, you know, have you ever heard anyone go, well, I have all these stupid clients.

It's like, well, why are you letting stupid clients into your organization? Like, why are you allow. It's your company. You're the one who consented. And why is that the only person you're attracting?

And if I don't know what's important to me, I can get caught dealing with those customers. And the reason is somewhere along the line, and this is a crisis theme, somewhere along the line, people have created this illusion that busy is a badge of honor.

Why do you think that is?

Busy must mean important if you want to have fun with people's heads. And I like the time. So when they ask you, so, are you busy? Respond to them and say, no. Don't explain it. Don't justify it. Don't say anything further. Just say no. And nine times out of 10, they will do that. What? Is everything okay? Your problem? Yeah. No, just not busy. Well, is the business okay? Yeah, business is fine. Well, does that not concern you, that you're not busy? And what I do is, after a period of time, I will say my schedule is full. But busy is determined by other people's priorities. Full schedule is determined by mine. No, I'm not busy.

Hashtag, asterisk, gold nugget. That.

Well, and, And I mean, wow. Like. Like think about those two men that you and I were chatting about. They were never so busy that they didn't do what was important.

I could. I'm thinking of an example right now that blew my mind. Still sticks with me.

And that's that hot water teabag moment. Mario. Because that's the stuff that leaks out in hot water.

For everyone that just joined us, please give them that analogy again because that was powerful as well.

What is the hot water teabag analogy?

If you ever want to find out what's important to a person or an organization, this is reframing, crisis or change.

Watch what happens when they're in hot water. Because just like a tea bag, what's inside always leaks out when we are in hot water.

So do you think this is One reason managers, CEOs, business people take people to lunch or dinner outside of the office?

Sorry, lunch or dinner outside the office? I miss the.

So for your teabag analogy for what leaks out, I was asking, do you think this is why CEOs, business leaders, managers, whoever, take people, oh, let's go to lunch or dinner? Yes, whatever the scenario, breakfast outside of the office to see how they are in that environment?

Yes, partly. But the other part is it removes the title, position, professional image, whatever. I'm supposed to call that game based hierarchy. The hierarchy. And it puts like if, if I. And because I happen to take a guess at your descent and just based on your last name, there might be a little Italian in it. But if I'm sitting down with you eating spaghetti and I'm doing one of two things. I'm doing this and the speed piece goes back and forth up and down my face, or I grab my knife and fork and cut my spaghetti.

There's. There's all kinds of ways that that gets interpreted because we get to know the real person.

You know, if I talk with my mouth.

You know how we get around that?

No, but I figured I might open a can of worms on this one.

So I would talk with their hands instead.

Absolutely.

I was going to make a crack about why does it have to be spaghetti? I was going to say why not Alfredo or something. But.

I get your point.

Better.

Okay, nice.

The other thing is take a spoon and put it in a. The fork in the spoon and twirl it.

My wife does her spaghetti that way. I don't. No, no, I do the knife and fork. And we went out for. With somebody for dinner one night and they did this.

And it was so bad that we actually had. We shortened up our dinner. Said, yeah, this was.

No kidding.

Holy smokes, look what time it is. We gotta go.

Oh, it was disgusting.

How well did you know them?

Quite well, but we'd never been out to dinner. It was, you know, the social kinds of things. We got together, we had a card game, but all of a sudden.

So it was the very first time.

Yep.

Okay, so I gotta ask you this because you and my sister would have a good conversation. So where was it?

Mother's Day. And recently we went out with my mom and.

I got frog legs. So did Mom. And we both like ribs also.

And. Oh, I'm using real people's names right now. I'm so comfortable with you. I just. Oh, okay, whatever. We're live.

Typically, I say. And I've been in scenarios like. But, yeah, my sister made a crack at it. She's like, don't ever go on a date with someone and get ribs or frog legs. And I'm like, shoot, I get what I want. But so let me ask you to that point. Like, is there a point where you would get comfortable enough where that wouldn't be a big deal?

Absolutely. Like, I go out with people and fish is my trigger. And that's not the right word, but.

I was actually gonna almost say salmon to that spaghetti joke. I love salmon.

My wife does salmon. I'm not a fish person. Okay, so let me preface. My wife does salmon that I actually really enjoy.

Okay, so.

But if I go out to a restaurant and somebody says, oh, you really gotta try their fish here. No, I don't.

And. And that's where I get to see that hot water teabag moment. Because how they handle me saying no versus, well, what are you gonna have? And just roll with whatever. Like, I'm not a spicy art. One of our kids, our son, he can go to his friends and, well, they're from the. I think it's Pakistan. But anyways, over in that area. And spicy food is just kind of the norm. William is the only white friend that his grand. This other friend's grandparents can have over because he'll eat this super spicy stuff. The sweat is pouring out of them.

Ghost peppers and stuff.

Good.

I'm not wired that way. It's bland. It's meat, potatoes. I'm just humdrum when it comes to my meals. However, if I'm out with somebody and we get into a discussion about what I should eat.

That'S when that hot water teabag stuff, the values start to leak out. How do you. If you're my manager, boss, supervisor, whatever, we're out somewhere and you take me to XYZ restaurant because you really like that Food dish there. And I say no, I'm not really that good with it. You will have one of two reactions. John saying no to me about a dish that I'm recommending. I respect him. Or John saying no to me in a dish I respect is called a career limiting move.

Wow.

See, and that's the stuff that's.

I think it's a good thing, but also unfortunate because it's like you might not be disrespecting them. You just don't like it. You could be allergic, you're not in the mood for it, you had it for lunch. There's a million one reasons why you don't want it.

And Mario, what you put your finger on is one of the biggest problems that happens around crisis. And I always group those two words together because change can be a crisis for some people.

But one of the things that happens around change and crisis is we judge others motivation or values by their behaviors.

Instead of saying, oh, okay, well that's fine, no big deal. Can I ask what, what your concern is John around eating fish? That's a very different discussion than.

When I said no.

And we are so as humans, we are so good at judging others.

I wasn't going to say it quite so bluntly, but yeah, pretty much.

And that's why we, most of us love children, because they'll ask questions. Zero judgment. But they're asking questions. We think, yeah, we just assign. And Judith Glasser, the founder, Dr. Judith Glasser, the founder of conversational intelligence, did what she called a ladder of conclusions. And within milliseconds, we have an automatic biochemical reaction to a person. And in coaching language, we use the letter K for rapport because it's kinesthetic. It's something we feel. There's no rational. Then what happens is we start to feel a certain way, then we start to think a certain way, and then we form conclusions based on our thoughts and feelings. A ladder of conclusion.

And it's all based on that immediate biochemical reaction of how I interpreted what I saw, heard, whatever.

How do you handle it or suggest people handle it when there could be miscommunication over it?

Not you can delete the words. Could be. There will be miscommunications. And it's just because there's three components of all communication. There's my intention, there's what you heard, and then there's the interpretation lens.

Yeah.

And, and hence the cliche. You know, communication is never what is said, it's always what is heard and how the simplest way for people to address that, including myself, is ask. So just curious. What did you just hear me say?

Or just hear me say?

And.

And I like that better than what did I just say?

Yeah, I know, because that seems a little defensive. What did I just say?

The other thing. And I'm laughing because if you've been around teenagers, they're incredible.

Oh, I used to be one.

Yeah, well, so did I. My kids would say 100 years ago, but I'm not that bad old. But one of things that teenagers do is they can repeat verbatim what the person said.

Without ever thinking about what the person said.

What did you. What did I just say? And they can repeat it verbatim what the person said. Does that mean. And I'm not sure which one's which, but one's hearing and one's listening. They heard every word but didn't listen. Or they listened but didn't hear.

I gotcha.

And. And by telling. Asking a person, so what did I just say? Is.

Allowing that teenager in all of us to repeat what they just said.

Yeah, it's like the difference between talking and communication. Everyone talks, but few.

Few communicate well. And isn't that that old song, Everybody's talking, nobody's listening.

And. And part of what happens in crisis is we. Any normal human being who has a pulse.

Will have a reaction to a crisis. It just. It's the reality of being human.

But what we do is we judge people frequently by what we think their reactions are based on.

So let me ask you about crisis. Is there. Are they all the same? Or are some bigger than others? Or is it just the interpretation we put on it?

Okay, I'll go with number three as my final answer, because the event is never the real crisis.

And that's key for your listeners to hear. Please.

The event is never the real crisis. For example, because you're in Detroit, you know what black ice means, is if you and I hit black ice in a. In your pickup truck, we better have.

A good song on, because you're going to be going in circles for a few minutes.

And.

And, you know, and there was an old country song that said, jesus, take the wheel, but that's beside the point. What happens is, after you get the truck back on the road and everything's fine, you do the. Well, that was kind of ugly. You want to grab a coffee? And I still got both hands on the holy crap rail thinking.

Same event.

Very different reactions.

That's interesting, because I've actually hit freeway walls a couple times.

And the second time it was After a business event, I was really focused on going to an afterwards business event to hang around the leaders even longer. And I was most upset. It put me five minutes behind.

I still went. I was like, I remember facing traffic on the freeway. I'm like, crap, I missed the exit. And then I had to like get resituated.

And we were going to a Buffalo Wild Wings. It's not like it was, you know, it was 11, 12 at night after everything. And they're like, oh yeah, we, we're wondering if you come. I'm like, yeah, I just hit the freeway wall. Do they have the Parmesan garlic still? Like what?

Yeah. And then there's other stuff that were probably no big deal whatsoever that I completely flipped out about.

Yep. And, and what's happening is if I don't know what's important, everything is. AKA that busy discussion we just had.

When crisis or change happens, when I don't know what's important, everything is.

How do you help people through that? Because you're now making me think of an office clip when he's like, there's prior, you know, important one, important two and important three. It's like.

Everything'S important. How do you prioritize it?

And that that's going to come back to a couple three. A couple three areas. Two or three areas. First of all, which is more important, the people or the productivity performance? And it's no wrong answer.

Depends who you ask. I'd say the people, but.

There'S your hot water tea bag stuff.

That, that's a no brainer for me. But it's part of the reason I question why in business there's times I've hesitated with stuff and it's like, because I'm like maybe I may need to be more cutthroat because there are people who just replace them. We'll get new ones because for them productivity is more important.

And there's the value statement and that's the stuff that leaks out in hot water. And it's not. And this, which one's right? What's that?

Which one's right?

And, and it's not. Do you remember as kids we used to do that baseball bat, the hand picking teams. Do you remember?

Yeah, sort of. And what I do, I was usually watching the people doing it.

But okay, well I was normally the player that okay, it's your pick. You can have John. No, no, no, you can have John. I was the player that neither team wanted to pick. So it bringing back a whole bunch of other issues in my life. Thank you very much for that, John. But anyways, part of the reason I mentioned that is profit has to be on the values bat as a business. If there is no core value of profit, they are only lying to themselves.

That I agree with.

On the other hand, how we achieve profit.

Right.

Is a value statement. So therefore productivity at all costs or the right people in the. Jim Collins says the right people in the right places for the right reasons gives us profit.

Is that in good to great?

Yes.

Okay, good. I need a. Thank you. That was a personal question.

Yeah, no, it's. I mean, I've been hearing that book.

Come up like over and over and over and I'm like, I need to revisit this.

Well, if you're like me, there's a good to great for the social sector. The premise behind it works in every area. But instead of good to great, which is built around, what are you passionate about, what do you have the skills to be best at? And what earns you money, which is business. And the social sector is what drives your resource engine. So that will be money, but it will also be people and those other things. I use the. It's called a monograph, but it's the additional chapter. I use that one, good to great for the social sector because it applies to all areas.

So what drives your resource engine? Is it people? Is it the widgets that you sell? Is it who knows, whatever else going on?

Yeah, the whole features and benefits versus value statements.

Absolutely. And when we're talking about those kinds of things, finding that ideal customer is. For example, I've fired some customers in a nice way because I'm Canadian, but fired some customers to say, yeah, you're focused on getting the widgets out the door, not how you get the widgets out the door. You have every right to do it that way.

But I have every right not to be part of it. It's the saying no to fish at supper.

Yes. I've been telling people about, you know, you can do whatever you want for your business. I'm not going to put anyone's business down because I know what it takes to even get it off the ground. But we also have the right to refuse to support it.

And what's happening right now as a society is.

Disconcerting in the really nice way because we've lost the. We're losing the willingness to discuss.

I call it the English second language problem. What many people do to people who are not in the same language is we talk louder.

And the issue is, I'm not a deaf I don't speak the English kind of response. And we talk louder. What do we. What are we doing right now? In many areas of. Of business, we. We say it louder rather than.

Is it any more correct, though?

No, it's not. It's worse because what saying it louder does is puts the brain in fear mode, which is protect mode, which means I'm no longer listening and hearing what you just said.

It's just about me getting my message out, and I'm just gonna.

Yep. So we're not having conversations. We're having. I can't. I was never a good English major, but in Shakespeare, they had one actor that would go on forever, but that was called something. When that actor would recite a paragraph, it felt like a novel.

But like Mercutio and Romeo and Juliet with Queen Mab.

See, you just spoke more about Romeo. I got Romeo and Juliet. The rest of the story.

He does the presentation. Oh, the monologue.

Yes. And there's that what you're referring to? Yes, monologue. And. And there's another term that's used in English. Soliloquy. Yes, something like that.

And. And what's happening is the more monologues we have, the more people can hear our monologue. But we're not gaining buy in. We're not growing traction. We're not growing credibility. We're not growing influence.

Okay, that's interesting. I'm thinking of specific scenarios right now. So how do you advise if people are doing more monologue stuff to you? Advise that they do more interviews like this or round tables, webinars, in person stuff, if that's the type of business they're in?

E. All of the above. But just have more discussion learned is.

It was from a salesperson. And I'll never forget, he said, don't ever forget, John. The best salespeople in the world ask the most questions.

Love that.

You want to move it from a monologue soliloquy to interaction with hyperbole. Yeah.

Okay.

So I got to ask about the title of your book, Run towards the Roar.

Why do you think most people run away from it?

Human instinct. All of us fight, flight, freeze, appease. It's welcome to the normal human species.

So how do people like firefighters, military, you know, all the great people serving us.

How do you. They get past the trigger and.

Well, that's actually part of their training. And one of the things that they do, Mario, which is they call muscle memory. Okay. And they train, train, train, train, so that when things go amok, whatever that means, they do not think and react like a normal human being. They respond according to their training.

Okay.

And for you and I, we have to take those principles in our own journeys to say, okay, what am I training for every single day? So that when these blips happen along the radar, we are able to say, you know what? I'm not going to react, fight, flight, freeze, appease and run away from the roar. I am going to press on and run toward the roar.

Do you have any stats on how many people can actually pull that off and do it effectively?

I should say, oh, well, I think of. Not specific stats, no, but anecdotally, yes. I mean, a perfect example of this. Let me describe to you a situation. I'm not getting into the ethics or politics or any of the other stuff, but take a, take a stand up actor. I don't know what kind of acting that he did, but take that kind of person Persona and say, okay, well, we want you to be a leader in our community. Never mind that we want you to be our leader in a country. And so he drinks the Kool Aid, he decides he's going to be an act, he's going to be an actor, he's going to be a political leader kind of person in their community. And then all of a sudden things start going south in the country and now everybody's upset. There's explosion, attacks, all kinds of stuff. They've got food shortages, they've got power shortages.

Run toward the roar, paint a blue ribbon and a yellow ribbon. And you have Slinsky, who started out as an actor, comedian, I can't remember what he started as. The president of Ukraine.

Okay.

The woman that was prime minister of New Zealand. When Covid started.

What did she do? She sat down with people via video and said, this is impacting me and my son. Not just you, but we are not going to tap dance around it. We are going to come at it hard.

She, they have a political system in New Zealand that's designed so that no one party can sweep all the seats. The way it was designed was it would always be governed by two parties.

Her first term and Covid, she was elected with one party ruling.

How?

That's how her influence of being the kind of person that she is worked.

Because people just were drawn to her. She was genuine.

So she was doing it for all the right reasons.

Doing it for all the right reasons.

There's your hot water teabag moment.

So would you say this is more rooted in ethics and value or the. Well, I guess that would be the type of person I Was going to say personality because I know personality plays trait a factor in all these traits. But I'm, what I'm hearing is it's really more the value and ethics statement because you can be outgoing, gregarious or introverted and have the right values in both of them I would still say is the right person versus, you know, vice versa. And you know, it's all about the other person. You know, I hear stuff all the time. Leaders who are more concerned about themselves than the people they're in charge to protect.

Well, perfect example is personally or professionally.

It could be a, a city, state, country, whatever. But it, you know, in our instance could be the business, you know, so and so gets promoted to CEO or manager, whatever the case is.

They might be qualified, they might not. They might be for you, they might not.

Well, and that's why when I talk about leadership for this kind of thing, I actually get people thinking about, yes, you got to have competence. There's no question. Credibility, no question. But it's the other things. Character.

Courage.

And I love the old English word for composure, countenance.

And we have to have those other qualities, not just do I have the right credibility or competence skills.

What are three things you think anyone could do to gain more of that Self awareness, Be the right type of person and become who we're discuss talking about.

First thing is really simple. Look at your daytime and look at your bank statement. Where are you spending your most time and your most money? Because that's what you're telling people are your real values the next time, the next thing to do is look at what comes after your name. So when you take a course, when you take a program, when you do anything, ask yourself, why am I doing this? Why is this important for me?

And then the third piece is.

Most of us won't be there, but at the funeral, what do we want people to say about us?

Yeah, that's a very sobering thought.

There's a culture and you want to talk about unnerving. I don't know if I would have the credibility to do it. But there's a culture that as the person is nearing the end, they have the funeral while the person is alive so that they can hear what others are saying.

I've heard of, I didn't know it was a culture thing. I've heard of people doing it just okay, I think a couple times in real life like they did it. And then other ones I've had discussions with people like, why don't we do that more?

Yep. You know and isn't that a powerful question, Mario? Why do we wait to give a eulogy about a person when they're dead?

Why don't we catch them and just say, you know, one of the things that I really find annoying about you, but I absolutely love.

And just put it on the table?

I've often thought about, why do we wait like an entire lifetime? Also why. Why not once a year reevaluate, you know, because I think some people think I'll do this between now and five and ten years from now, and that'll be the end point when really there's no guarantee we get next year. So what are you doing this year? If this was the last year of your life, what are you doing right now? That if you were to, you know, if this was it, would you be happy with the direction you're going and who you are?

We used to do something at our supper table and we would sit down and we have three kids, but the five of us would sit down and one night a week was one person. So we would all pick on that one person and say, you know what I admire the most about you, what I love the most about you, what you contribute the most to the family, which you can contribute the most to people around you. And for one meal, it would all be about that one person.

And we would do that once a week. So every five weeks it would repeat. And I remember one of our kids having a company over, guest over for supper. And their question was, can we do that special thing but do it on this person?

And I got a phone call from the dad the next day to say, what the hang did you do to my kid? I'm thinking, oh, great, what did we do now? And the dad's comment was, he came home and he said, I want to do what the Robertsons do. That was really cool.

Yeah, that's like 11 birthdays a year.

And guess what we could do in the workplace, Mario?

Same thing.

Exact same thing.

Monthly, quarterly, whatever, weekly.

And to be blunt, it's going to make people super uncomfortable.

Why? Why? So why do people.

This has always perplexed me, too. Why, like with the fish, why do so many people apologize or get uncomfortable when people say nice stuff about them or apologize for speaking their truth or what they want?

You know, somewhere along the lines, part of me wonders, part of it is a negative bias. It's easier to believe the negative than it is to believe the positive. But somewhere along the lines that we have bought into thinking that being self confident and having pride is Being arrogant and being proud.

Let'S break that down. How would you say self confident isn't pride?

When I am clear on my values. My. You were talking about personality when you're talking about passion or life lessons, whatever. And I'm able to say, you know what, I'm actually really good at this. I got this.

That's pride, that's self esteem. That's self confidence.

If I say, well, yeah, I can do that, Mario. Yeah, well, I can do that. Now we've crossed a line.

Do you think it has anything to do with that? It's not bragging if you can back it up.

That's exactly what it is.

Okay, so it's when you can actually do it and you're talking about it confidently.

Yep. Like I'm. I don't know if you've ever seen the show MacGyver.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

I'm an incredible MacGyver. And I had to fix a shed door at our cottage and our son in law came up and his words, because he's a planned, processed, done right kind of personality and he looked at the thing and he says, yeah, this has John written all over it and everybody laughed.

But you're probably not going to take a month to get it done either.

Yeah, no, true enough.

I, it's not so much as I see the benefit in both. I can do both if it needs to be precise and accurate. Like when we're publishing books. Absolutely. But my natural state is like we're not going to spend two years on most things. We don't even spend two years to do people's books. And I see some people with a normal, let's say a social media post, they like craft it for a month and a half. It's like you're about 10:48 behind the frequency. You know, you got to choose your battles.

And if I don't know what's important, I'm going to try and do it perfect. And perfect isn't an option.

Just remember this one thing.

Sorry. I just realized that the sun is set and some of the natural lighting was gone on me.

So there was this thing in econ in college.

Yeah.

It drove me nuts because it said 94% is 100% capacity. And I'm like, it's not though. But I guess it's just the economic standard of if you're operating above 90%, 92, 94. No one's, they realize it's a physical impossibility be running at 100% capacity 24. 7.

Well, and just to show You. To illustrate this verbatim discussion, I can have this battle in my mind right now about lighting.

Okay, John, are you casting a shadow on the side of your face? Do you need to rotate properly and head to the light, or do you focus on the content? And if people get all bent out of shape about the lighting, John, just don't worry. Like, that's that battleground. Okay, Mario? Where excellence and all those other things. Because a lot of times, most humans, we cross the line trying to do something with excellence, but we're thinking perfectly.

Too high of a bar, huh?

Well, it's not achievable.

What if you try really hard, though?

Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, your wiring just leaked out in that moment, buddy. It's like, okay, well, maybe it's awful close to perfect. Well, now we're going to have a conversation about what perfect means, because that's most important.

Yeah. I'm thinking of.

Another TV show about scientists. They're really trying to do nice stuff and create this thing to help people and all that. And they're, like, five years behind on it. And I think it was the show Scorpion, actually. Real good show, by the way. But they were a great show. Yeah. Have you seen all of them?

No, not all of them.

Okay. There's the one where there's this electricity and a scientist and flying craft. I don't know which one it was. Was. But they were trying to figure something out in the guy. The scientist, he really was just so focused. He's like, we're so close. And this. That. The other thing. But the reality is they were so far behind and nowhere's near getting the thing. But the whole time, they had to. I don't know if I'm spoiling if you see it, but the thing is, the scientist was always going in his mind, we are so close. We're only two weeks away. We're only a month away. But to everyone else, it's like they. He goes. Once we realize this is how he was thinking, we realized it wasn't intentional. This didn't. He wasn't doing anything malicious. It was just simply. We're testing, and I think there's people and. Yeah, for sure. At times in the past, I've been like, you know, we're almost there. That it's like, there's something I actually did yesterday that I'm like, nope, nope. We're moving forward. I don't even care, and no one's gonna see it. And it was kind of refreshing because it's like, you. You could. I could Conservatively say.

At least two to three to four to six extra weeks it would take to fix the thing. No one did notice already and no one will notice.

And, and that's that negative bias that humans have. Because I know who your worst critic is. You know who mine is.

And, and what happens is we have to. And it's a. It's a fascinating thing because the human mind cannot retain positive thinking at the exact same time as we hold on to negative thinking.

Oh, I like that.

And, and so the. What is it? I heard a great line. I'm just trying to. Discouragement is a choice.

Encouragement is a choice.

Positivity. And I'm not talking Pollyanna and rose colored glasses. I'm talking about, you know what? We will get through this. It sucks, but we'll get through it. Positivity, negativity is, you know, Chicken little and all the sky's falling and.

Oh, and worst case scenario, always, constantly, every situation. Even after you've won an award.

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.

That goes back to that quote I was telling you about. You know, for people looking to get on the show here. It's not that I don't like. Oh, it's not that you're not qualified. It's just that I don't like you.

And, and part of. And the way I illustrate this for our own well being is do you remember? I don't. I'm not commenting on your age. I'm commenting on your life lesson. Do you. Did you ever have one of those vehicles that had the dome light that if you left it on, you got the click, click, click in the morning?

Yeah, the whole battery was toast.

Okay. Don't ever call them this, but relationships are dome lights. Some drain the battery and some we love. They will drain the battery, but it's not a negative drain. It's a part of caring. But they're dome lights. And if we don't keep a charge in your. And our batteries, those negative dome lights will drain the batteries. So we don't even have enough charge for the positive relationships.

And that's the real travesty.

And that's the only thing that matters.

And I mean, I mean, without getting into names, but I can guarantee you on your cell phone, you will have that screen. Sorry, that number come up on your screen and you will have one of two biological reactions. John, I got to take this or.

Not. Them.

Dome lights.

So I don't know if I should make the reference to energy vampires. If we're not going to call them dome lights or make the Crack about where would be a good restaurant to take your dome light for Valentine's?

I just. No, I. I think you've started people down a trail. We'll let them finish that journey on their own.

You're very diplomatic. That is good.

Well, and. And absolutely emotional Vampires is a great way to visualize because they feed off of us.

Yeah. There's people that I know are sometimes embellishing the truth, or it's more that Chicken Little syndrome. And then there's this whole other class of, like, literally, you just got a raise, an award, and all kinds of stuff.

And you're still just. It's like there's literally nothing to be other than. I can't even wrap my head around other than joy, celebration.

And it's still like, just like, what is wrong with you?

Actually, there's. And I don't want to offend any Christians. I'm a Christian, but I don't want to offend any on this show. But we're living in a time right now. One of the stories that's told is Jesus walked to the. Walked on the water to the disciples. But today there will be people saying, what's the matter, Jesus? You can't swim.

That's true. And I'm very much Christian also, so say whatever you want. But yeah, you're right, because.

And.

And one of the things that. That we have to do is we have to start saying, okay, what's inside? You know, do we take our time away to recharge, not unplug. Unplugging is the same effectiveness as thinking putting your cell phone on airplane mode is going to recharge it. When we disconnect from work, what are we plugged into? What are we going to charge?

Oh, so it's not that you unplug, it's you plug into something better to.

Recharge, because that way the dome lights that need our battery full get it. And we therefore buffer the dome lights, the vampire batteries. Vampire dome lights that drain the battery.

Yeah. I actually can say I'm happy. There's not a ton of people who call now. And it's like. It's one reason I've encouraged people for decades. Start your own business. At least you can. You have the say of, well, I don't like my boss. I don't like my job. You get control over that. But what. That's why so curious to me, people who take on clientele or customers, clients, whatever, are even entertaining prospects. And they go. They'll go to 10 meetings a week in real Life, drive around, leave their wife, husband, family, kids, do all this stuff. And they're like, oh, all these people I gotta deal with. I'm like, you decided to take the appointment. This isn't on anyone but you. Your boss didn't force you to. That's a whole other. You know, I'm so glad we're talking about this, because I. I've said stuff here and there. You know, you have the expertise in this area, but I'm. I don't know, observant, and I've noticed stuff. But it's just, like, why I love what you were saying about, you know, tell someone no without giving them a reason. Hey, can you come to that thing Friday? No.

There's four types of no. Okay? And we got to. We got to be honest. No is without explanation, no with an alternative.

You know, no, I can't help you tonight, but I can come on Saturday.

There's no with an explanation like, no, I have a seafood allergy. I'm not eating fish.

And I sounded really wise when I started with four no's, but the fourth one is gone at the moment right now.

But. But there's.

I was gonna. I was smirking because of the. I. You know, I know people that go, no.

Yeah.

The question mark.

But. But, Mario, you made a comment that's really key for listeners to hear. Please. When we are starting our business, that is not the time to worry about all these dome lights or these vampires. Yes. Track them, monitor them. Don't let them be your sole focus for client base.

However, garlic around.

Yeah. And. And I'm trying to not do a squirrel moment right now, but one of the things that we have to do when we're starting a business is, yeah, I can do that. Yes, I can do that. But then be very, very strategic and tactical when you're done. When we are done working with that client, what qualities, attributes did we like? What qualities, attributes, did we not like? And what that does is helps us focus on the kind of client we want to work with.

Absolutely. One thing I implemented. Geez, it's hard to believe.

I don't want to give away my age, but. Or date myself here, but it was over a decade ago. I came up with once a year, look back, you know, you do all this stuff for New Year's, and I'm talking resolutions, like, I'm going to. But literally, just take your whole inventory of clients to go, who was the. Who was your best, who was your worst? And, you know, where's the threshold of I don't ever want to work with this type of person again because of these situations.

And to your comment, and this is key for your listeners, don't ever put a name to it.

It's the type of client.

Yes.

It's not the name. It doesn't matter the package that quality comes in. What matters is the quality.

Yeah. And you said it earlier on and I loved it because absolutely. You know, when you make that decision and then four weeks later you get six out of seven people going, here's a lot of money.

Yeah, but there's, here's stuff to start the new year. And you go, huh, I can only take one of you. However, I know in six months from now I'll be a lot happier.

And there's a term for people who work for money, isn't there? Who tell me this of it's called Pretty Woman. Richard Gere.

I thought that's what you were getting at.

Well, and, and at the end of the day, if I only want to work for money, then yeah, some of my behaviors are going to reflect that value because I will do anything for money.

Yeah. And I remember distinct thing. Yeah, it was at least a decade ago, but it was just like so.

When you were 12 or 13.

Appreciate that. But it was, you know, ever since then it's like, okay, now, you know, it didn't take long to build it up because we're always getting people coming to us. But at the same time it was was like I've never told people like really no before because I really do sincerely want to help everyone, but especially like I said when I launched the show, I'm like, it's not that you're not qualified. I just don't like you. And you know, you can't ever get your time back. Regardless if you make 100 an hour, a 10 an hour, a million an hour, you can't get your time back.

So, and that's, and that theme is exactly the crisis moment.

Because what happens in a crisis is we realize a hot water teabag. We realize, what have I been spending my time and money doing?

Yeah.

And sometimes you might think it was something good and other times you might realize maybe I don't need to be doing everything for everyone that I was because.

This much is moving the needle and keeping my sanity.

And there's a great principle for people and part of how I love to help people is to be part of what I call a huddle. It's a values anchored huddle. So the rest of the world sees our bums, but we're in the huddle talking about the play that we're going to run. And each business person needs three people in their life. Somebody more mature who invests in us.

Somebody less mature that we are investing in. Because that's the easiest way to learn something is teach it. And the third person is somebody who cares but is an observer. You know, they're the ones that are able to say, you know, John, people think your business is wonderful. You know, John, people love what you do. You know, John. But I'm just here to tell you that right now, what I'm seeing with you and your wife.

Is not great. Am I missing something?

And that observer, that Barnabas is the character, but that Barnabas type person that just says, I'm not trying to help you grow your business. I'm not trying to be helped by you growing my business.

I just.

Yeah, it's great analogy.

And, and when we are intentional with those three people in our lives. So huddle of four, what happens is minimum four, what happens is I am learning stuff because I'm teaching it. I'm learning stuff because I have somebody investing in my success. That, and I have somebody who cares enough to share what they are observing without being one of those dome light experts up in the stands when I feel like I'm drowning and they're shouting, swim arter, Swim harder. Thanks. I wouldn't have thought of that.

No, I, I. Pastor was talking about that too. Like it's actually insensitive in certain scenarios to. Like you said, they're up in the stands, swim harder. Like.

Well, and, and I think it was a president.

I can't remember who it was, so I'm not going to say. But the battle belongs to those who are in the arena.

You know that quote marred with the dust on their face.

Yes. And with blood and sweat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, and part of being in business.

Roosevelt, the man in the arena.

The man in the arena and Roosevelt. Okay, and, and part of being the person in the arena is that business, that entrepreneur, business owner. Because if we're thinking we're going to be in the stands and be whatever, not happening for 90% of us, it won't work that way.

Okay, I got one more question before we go to the wheel of whatever, but I'm really enjoying this and I know we could talk for hours on it. At what point? And what's the ratio? What's the time? You know, because it's got to be perfect, only never.

You can't be in the arena the whole time. You need that. What's that word that I learned from my nurse? Respite. Nurse clients, I should say. Not my nurse. Nurse respite.

Right.

You can't be in the arena 24. Seven your whole life. @ some point you have to take a breather and then go back in. How do you handle that? And I'm not saying the. I'm not saying the nosebleed seats either. Like you're completely removed, just aloof. But I'm just saying you can't fight your whole life 24.

7. Simple. Look at the two words that people use all the time. Recreation.

Where does it come from? Re.

Creation. What?

What? I love looking up etymology, and no one's told me.

That. Now, I don't know if it's true, but it's a.

Johnism. It works. And it works enough for.

Me. And. And so therefore, what am I doing to recreate?

And so the rest is. The acronym I teach this from is recreation Envision. What are some things that I want to work on for me? Sleep. And if I'm not sleeping, what are the things that I do that allows my body to literally veg.

And tea is thanks. One of the biggest struggles that most of us have is listing out things that we are thankful for. I'm not talking in the head. I'm talking about writing them down, journaling, whatever you want me to call that. But, you know, name 10 things you are thankful for today, John, and write them down. So rest is one. Recreation and vision. Sleep and thanks. The other one is sabbatical, and it comes from the Jewish Sabbath.

Okay, well, one day a week is a day of rest right now. And I'm not getting into Sunday shopping. That ship has sailed. But when we talk about a day of rest.

Think about that very acronym and a Sabbath. What's my one day of recreation and vision? Sleep. And.

Thanks.

What if the recreation for someone is, I like pulling weeds and flowers and this and that and it's. Would you consider that workers in that scenario, their.

Recreation? Oh, no, that's recreation. For others like me, that's.

Work.

So it depends on the.

Person. And this goes right back to what you were talking about with personalities. I know people. My kids harass me all the time about my lawn, you know, and it's just because I take pride in it. I do. I use fertilizer and weed spray and so forth. I'm not. I don't get down on my hands and knees and pull weeds. I'm not there.

Yet. But I still take pride in it. And not do it. I. I think weed pulling is an absolute waste of life for anyone. Even if you like planting flowers, planting flowers is not pulling.

Weeds. Like, and, and so therefore, you know weeds. I know people who enjoy jigsaw puzzles. I know people who enjoy reading a novel. That has no bearing on anything in life is just very.

Therapeutic. Okay. Cooking, cooking.

Music.

And, you know, serving others. I know that the, that people talk about you need to volunteer because it brings life into perspective. But human beings are. It's called altruism. But people, humans are naturally wired that when we serve others that they can't pay me back.

We actually feel.

Better.

Man. I'm not talking about, like, if I hate public speaking, I'm not talking about taking a public speaking course. But on the other hand, I know a woman friend of ours. She used to volunteer at a homeless shelter. She had her own business. She and her husband had their own business. She volunteered at a homeless shelter and cleaned and treated and washed homeless people's feet.

Trench foot, I think was the term that she used. But anyways, it's. She loved it. She said there is nothing they can do. They cannot buy from our business.

I am doing it because I have been so blessed that I'm paying somebody back with things that I don't even think about.

Clean socks, healthy.

Feet. Yeah.

It rounds out the.

Individual. And part of the motive that all three of our kids did, missions, traps, is we wanted our kids to understand that where we live is not the real world.

You know, it doesn't matter whether it's new Android or Apple ABCD phone. In many parts of the world, they don't even have a.

Phone.

Yeah. And reframes what is normal and what are we stressed about? What are we concerned.

About? And do you think there's an optimal time, like an age to be doing that? And at that certain age.

Frequency? No. The only time it's like, who was it? Gama, somebody, Anyone said there's two times to plant a tree. One is 20 years ago and the other is today.

That's the best way. Because what happens? And, and this is why I love focusing on helping those leaders lead. Because if we don't keep a battery, a charge in our battery, we will not be able to finish well. So we might have the perfect product for people, whatever it is, the perfect service for people. And yes, I used your word there. Not excellent product or excellent service, but perfect. But if we don't have enough charge in our battery, we may not be able to do the very thing that they need us to.

Do. Yeah, it's not. I've told people for a while, it's not just about getting to the finish line, it's about the journey. And if you're running on steam the last 50%, that's not. It's not fun. The last 5% or.

10%.

No. You better be able to do it though, I'll say that, because it's never gonna be perfect and you're probably gonna have to at some point. But yeah, there's times when you go from A to Z and it's like, that was awesome mostly. And there's other times it's like, okay, we're still alive, it's break time, we'll take the win. But it was. What's the word I'm thinking of? I think it's pyrrhic victory.

I think it's like when you won but you lost the whole army or something. It's like, okay, okay, we won, but there's one out of a thousand guys left. Like, yep. Wouldn't really call that a win.

But one to your comment. Right. Like, there's the other times when we are willing to lose the battle so that we win the war.

And part of that is what we need to do in business and in families. If I win this battle, what do I win? If I'm willing to lose this battle, what can I win? That long range game plan in.

Mind. If I win this battle, did I really win?

Yep.

I was equating that to the whole. I heard in business years ago, would you rather be rich or would you rather be.

Right?

Well, I illustrated as two ladders that people climb. The ladder of success.

And the ladder of significance.

Sometimes success gives us significance.

But significance always gives us.

Success.

I like that a lot.

Yeah. Very, very deep, very great, very everything.

Now I get to ask you the wheel of whatever before we come back for the imperfect action round. Yellow or.

Black?

Oh, absolutely.

Yellow. Oh, how.

Come?

Because we're. And I illustrate this with the battery traffic lights. Red means stop, means our battery's dead. Green means we're good to go. Yellow is where we have the problems because under the yellow light, some people slow down, some people speed.

Up.

What if it's.

Orange?

Okay.

Yeah. So my question for you is.

You know, you saw it right there, right? Because you picked yellow. There's the question.

What is something you were holding back on saying that, you know, now I can give you carte blanche to say, because there's been a couple times you're like.

I don't want to Say this or that. Is there anything you do want to say? And you don't need to worry about me getting.

No. Honestly, Mario, the only thing that I would want people to walk away from this time with is please take the time to discover that there is a plan for living value for your life. There is a values plan. There is values that you have to define what you are for. There's a passion, there's life lessons, there's ability and there's nature. What I call personality. Because our life lessons influence our nature. And when we discover a plan for our lives, we discover a purpose, a.

Hope.

I like that.

Everything you've been saying is great. And that's why I'm excited that I get to bring you back up in a couple of seconds after we thank our sponsor for the Imperfect Action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why I'm launching my new book@eapublishingmethodbook.com so you can learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business Book eight weeks. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from.

Having an idea and a possibility to actually getting my book.

Published. Or Catherine, thank you for making.

My mom number one best selling.

Author. Or Mary Alice, what he got done for me in three days regarding my book.

Launch.

Unmanageable. John.

Cody. I've worked with Mario over the.

Phone and online and he's been very helpful in getting me where I needed.

To go with promoting my books. Rocio, there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process. Adele, if you're looking for an amazing business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficcini or Bill Benner. I can't make a higher recommendation for me than to work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for.

Mario. Hey, their words, not mine. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get your copy and I look forward to hearing your transformation as our next video success story. Once again, that's eapublishing method book.com.

And we are back with the Imperfect Action round. John, are you ready to take Imperfect.

Action?

Absolutely. Three Questions for you, rapid fire answers. What is the fastest path to the.

Cash?

Be clear on what you're for. Don't worry about what you don't like or.

Against. Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way they can.

Fix.

Resonates with that first one. First of all, the trying to be all things to all people means you're going to please none. Therefore, be really clear on what's the issue that I can help that person organization with. Basically the acronym is wift. What's in it for.

Them? Right. Absolutely. Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime.

Value?

Ask them feedback. So when we met, anything I did well, anything that you think I can improve on, would you allow me to follow up with.

You? Wow. It's good format. I'm going to actually borrow that like right now. I literally last night.

Said on social we're going to play the flaw game tomorrow because I want people that I've got 5,000 people plus on the networks and I'm like, what can I improve?

And that's awesome. I like that. And can I follow up with you? Because now it's not just some random thing. You can actually have a deeper.

Conversation.

Yep. All right. Being a publisher, I have to anna author. I have to ask about books. We've mentioned a few of them. What business books have helped your business? What business? I shouldn't say that. Nope. Redo. What books have helped your.

Life. So there's a couple by John Maxwell. One is there's no such thing as business ethics. There's another one by Gus Lee, Courage. I think it's courage semicolon. The backbone of leadership. And then we talked about the other one was good to.

Great. Okay. Excellent. Thank you for those. I thought you were going to mention the Bible too. Well, I. Yeah, that's why I corrected myself, because I used to ask what business books? And I'm like, no, no, I'm going to let people do whatever they want.

And. But because you mentioned it, one of the things that I steal and it's part of where my questions come from, is Jesus never went to a person think about a business person. Okay. Because Jesus was not a philosopher. He was a carpenter. And somewhere along the lines, we made him a philosopher. And. And his first question was with every customer, client was, what do you want me to do for you?

One of my favorite sarcastic stories is, you know the guy lying beside the pool, been lying there for 30 years on a mat, first went into the water when the angel Stirs the water. Superstition. But it was what they believe. And. And the guy. So Jesus comes up to the guy and says, so what do you want me to do for you? I mean, can you imagine the sarcasm? I don't know. I've been lying here for 30 years. What do you think?

But what happens is, if people do not want.

Our help, don't try and convince them they need it.

Because if that guy got off as mat, he would actually have to start working, getting his own meals. There'd be a whole change of life. So when we are working with customers, please don't ever tell a customer what they need. Ask the questions. What do you want me to do for.

You? Two ears and one mouth.

I love that a lot.

Everything you've been sharing is gold. I wish we had more time, but where would you like people to learn.

More? So 2 options is email me directly. I'm old fashioned that way. Just john@fortlog co.co fort safe place in the frontier. Log is a journal to sail the seas because there's no point going there alone. And co is a colleague, collaborator, coach. I work with people. Co not. Com and so John at fortlog co or just simply go to the website fortlog co and book a time and let's have that.

Conversation. Excellent. Well, thank you for everything you've shared. I've enjoyed it and.

I'm glad.

We. Mario, I got it. I'm being rude right now. My mom's voice is echoing in my head. But I really want to thank you for the spirit that you interview by. Because you're not. I know you probably have a script in the back of your mind or on a separate monitor. But. But you allow the conversation to unfold and that genuineness and authenticity is a phenomenal quality in your role. And I've been very blessed by being your guest. So thank.

You. Well, thank you for that. It means a lot. And there was a script.

I've had people. It's been two years since I've looked at it honestly. And it's always curious to me when people email me beforehand, they're like, what about question seven? I'm like, what's question seven? There, there's a loose format. Yeah. With the wheel of whatever and stuff. But I, I appreciate that because I really do want to bring out the best and just have it natural and everything. And you know, some people, I give them all the space in the world and they, they like to keep it, you know, because that's where they're comfortable and so be it. So I want to thank you for, you know, going down some of the rabbit holes with me and, you know, willing to go deeper because I know the, you know, the person listening to this right now is getting more out of it. So thank you. But it really was a great episode and I thank you for your.

Time. My pleasure and I thank.

You. All right, Expert Authority World, we clearly have another great episode here today. I'll see you on the next one. Have a great day and God bless. You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate qualified leads while increasing profit for you 247 and if so, how well are you promoting it? With my new book, the Expert Authority Effect Publishing Method, I take you through my process step by step. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get started now or once again, that's eapublishing method book.com thanks for listening to today's episode. I would love to know what you enjoyed most from it if you haven't done so already. I invite you to connect with me on my new LinkedIn. You can go to it directly at eainterviews.com LinkedIn Once again, that's eainterviews.com LinkedIn. Lastly, check out the full eainterviews.com site for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you on the next one.