0468 | Rohaan Khan

Hi, my name is Rohan Khan. I'm the CEO and founder of Orange Trail. And you are listening to EA interview.

EA interviews, episode 468, inspiration, transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week, join Mario Ficcini for today's expert authority effect interview. You want more people for your business. You want to acquire leads. But what is the best way to do that? Maybe you've got one of those little postcards in the mail and it says, yay. You get some free advertising from one of the places that does advertising and you've tried it. Well, that's not really the right mindset to go about it. You need to be thinking about it different. And maybe that's where you started, but you've grown and now you're in a position where you're spending five figures a month advertising and it's going okay, but you know, it could be going better. What if you ran into the issues that no one really talks about? The payment processing, the too much of the advertising, all the behind the scenes stuff that's not fancy and not fun to talk about. That is why I'm super excited to have Rohan Khan on today's episode, episode, episode, episode from Orange Trail because he helps people get past all of these and get approved. When you're doing big, big advertising, you may have seen them on the COVID of Forbes Bulgaria and and you may have even seen them on Forbes 30 under 30. But I'm excited to bring them up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. And that's why I'm launching my new book to help you, regardless of where you think your current writing abilities are. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, this. That's eapublishingmethodbook.com Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Rohan Khan. Rohan, how are you feeling today?

Very well. Thank you Mario for having me here. It's a pleasure.

Oh, it's my pleasure. I mean, one of the reasons I wanted to get you on is because there's so many people talking about ads, but no one seems to be doing it right, with few exception. And you're doing it not only correct and helping other people do it, but you're doing it in a big way. I mean there's. I was somewhat joking about the postcard in the mail because I hear a good amount of people go, Well, I got $100 credit. I tried it, it doesn't work. And then you have people like your clients who are investing 5, 5 figures minimum a month on ads, and they have a whole new set of problems. So what would you say is one of the biggest problems people face when you're really trying to scale and reach and help more people and you're just getting all this blowback?

Yeah, that's a very good question, Mario. Well, in any business, the first step is obviously you find some service or product that someone wants, right? Something that's in demand. Okay, you've gotten to that step, you found something that people want, then it's about validating it. Is this scalable? Once you understand, okay, people want it, how do you reach all of those people? So one great carrier for scaling your product or service is just blasting social media ads. It's extremely scalable. It's not like, you know, door to door salesmen knocking on doors, because that's, you'll have a limit. You know, you only have finite amount of daylight in the day and you only have finite amount of salespeople.

Whereas you tell me you wouldn't want to be doing that 24 hours a day.

Well, if the commission's right, maybe, you know, but not right now. So one of the kind of cheat codes I would say, especially if your, your product or service is, you know, digitalized or can just be shipped abroad and you're a location independent business, is to just scale up social media ads. And they vary from Facebook, Instagram to Google, TikTok, Snapchat, Twitter, Bing, you know, choose your platform wherever LinkedIn, LinkedIn could. But again, it's very professional. So your product would have to be curated. Maybe Blue Ties would be good on LinkedIn to target.

So all about that.

So yeah, in a nutshell, obviously you, you know, you have your service, you have your product, you want to reach as many customers as possible. So how do do that? Well, social media ads is one of those channels. But the problem that you just mentioned, and one of the biggest problems that is really not spoken much about, is okay, when you get to that level and you're running ads and you start to scale up, you just run into bans, restrictions, payment processing issues, you know, especially with suspicious payment bans. So the current ecosystem is just so frequently having problems. Everyone has problems. We have a $40 million brand that works with us, and they have problems. And there's little advertisers that are like maybe 10,000amonth, they have problems. So it's such a wide spectrum and it's Just a problem across the board.

Why do you think the companies.

Are having it so prevalent? You know, for whatever reason, people start a business to have a better life, more freedom, all these things, all right, I'm going to take all these risks and go for it. And then the select few who not like they're selected. That's why they're the few. You know, you work hard and it takes time, but there's a lot less people who actually figure it out. I know that 95% failure rate in business. Now you get to a point where you can scale and do all these things and it should be easier and you still hit roadblocks. Why do you think all these platforms are going? We're going to start capping you here and here.

Clearly they're successful. Like, shouldn't you be dealing with all that in the beginning? Why do you think the companies haven't said, hey, let's take a look at this. It's causing an inconvenience for our customers?

Yeah.

Do they, do you think they just don't care or it's so far and few between. What's your take on it?

Yeah, so I do definitely think they care. I mean, platforms like Facebook, they rely heavily on advertising for, you know, their revenue.

So without that a little bit, huh.

There would be no Facebook without it. So I do think they care. But in terms of getting it right, it's very difficult. It's not just Facebook, you know, tick tock also has, you know, frequent issues. Google has a lot of issues. It's, it's across the board and when you're dealing with big data and just advertising, you know, algorithms, there's always going to be issues. There's always going to be updates, there's always going to be need for maintenance and, and look, you know, they're trying, I think, but they're just not getting it 100% right. And that's kind of where we step in for the times that they don't get it right. We are, you know, orange trailer, strategically kind of placed and just plugging that huge pain point in the industry where you have compliance issues. You know, you're struggling to run ads with stability. We come in with, you know, a higher tier of ad account that helps you to run the ads with stability. They don't get banned. You don't have any payment, you know, suspicious payment issues. You have direct line access to reps that give you priority support. Because another thing, Mario, is if one of those advertisers has a bad day with Facebook, good Luck trying to get a response from them in time. You'll be waiting weeks, and even after that, you know, a few week period. When you do finally get a response, it's probably some guy in a call center in the Philippines and India just reading a script, and they say, hey, this is a final decision. So there's not really a tailored approach, if you know what I mean.

How come. What, what, what's your take on if they had like a VIP concierge? White. White level, white label, whatever top tier going. You're. You're investing five and six figures a month or in one of your. You said $40 million ad account there. Are they. Did you mean it's a $40 million company or they're spending 40 million a year on ads?

It's a $40 million brand, so it's a. It's a. It's actually a CBD company, so.

But they're investing at least five or six figures a month.

Oh, yeah, it's actually close to seven. So per month, they're really aggressively scaling.

Why would they give them their own custom agent? It sounds to me like they'd be, oh, what, because they're under a mil a month in ads? They don't qualify.

Yeah. So if you kind of dial it back a little bit. Let's look at the timeline. Meta just laid off 11,000 employees last round. Before that, they also laid off more. Look, we're going into, you know, financial uncertain times, so obviously the layoffs are. Are coming and already have. And, you know, add to that the issues with the algorithm. It's just like an understaffing issue. You know, for example, you have the big players. You would think they have VIP concierges. Now, I'm not saying that all. All of them don't. I'm sure Nike has one. I'm sure Adidas has one. But what you're doing is you're neglecting those smaller advertisers. Yeah, but economies of scale and compound effect, they are also contributing quite a lot. So you shouldn't really be. But I think it's just that the platforms are just stretched to pin.

Then hire back 10 people. 12, you could have one. One a month. Just making sure everything's cool. I heard the same thing. I was talking with a publisher friend of mine last year, USA Today, just like New York Times and Wall Street Journal used to have a best seller list. And we're reading this article. I was on the phone with her, and we're like, what the heck is this? Oh, due to staffing issues. They're no longer going to have a list. And I don't even know if the company's around. And I just was like, you know, we could solve this. Like you and I could solve. Like this company's been around 100 years. They can't figure out how to get 10 more people on there. It's like, it's just astonishing. I think it's so great it creates this opportunity for you, but it's so many people think this is just made up. I remember my ads manager, eight years ago, she was like, Facebook finally called me after like a year and a half. And she asked the guy, she's like, do you guys just have that many calls? He goes, no, there's 12 of us in this department.

Facebook, there's 12 people or 14. Whatever it was, it was less than 20. I'm like, all of Facebook ads at that time was less than 20 people for the, what, 3.6 billion people who have an account now?

Yeah, so there are automated checks in place as well, Mario. I should mention, you know, generally they have an algorithm which detects if someone's being non compliant. It's like an instant automated. They look for, you know, certain triggers.

Different creatives or headlines that are breaking the terms of service.

Exactly. So it can be on anything. It can be. So they have tools that scan your landing page on your website. So that's website. They have your, you know, your creatives, for example, your video, your images, whatever you're running. And then there's also the text in which you're running. Any of that is non compliant. Generally it's an automated scan process, automated approval process. However, if you do get restricted, if you do get disapproved ads, then you appeal them, like, hey, like, what's going on here? I'm running totally compliant stuff. Once you appeal it, then it can go to a manual review. But remember, people are probably going, you know, whoever's working behind the desk, they're probably going through like thousands of manual. They're probably just skipping through like two seconds rejections on each one. So they're not really like looking at subtle nuances of what is your offer, what is your product? You might be totally clean and, you know, white hat, but again, this is, this is the major issue facing the advertising industry.

So for someone.

That isn't doing five, six figures a month on ads just yet, or.

What is something we could say to everyone if you've never ran ads and want to like, what are a couple things that everyone should consider? Whether you're doing five figures or six figures in ads a month or you go, you know what, I'm going to set a five figure budget for the year. Because to some businesses that's a lot. And like the one you mentioned, they're at nearly seven for the year. Seven figures for the year, that's probably a bad day for them. But I know there's got to be some similarities no matter what business you're in. What are some things that you always have to get right? Like we kind of touched on the creative can't be breaking the terms of service. What are some other things you'd recommend?

Yeah, that's a good question. So what I would recommend to any digital advertisers out there is take a few moments to just read through the policy guidelines. And this is especially the case if your product might be bordering on the policy kind of, yeah, you might just be infringing, but you're just at the boundary, you're pushing it. For example, Vape, cbd, thc, these are all categories of, you know, products that are kind of a little bit taboo in the advertising platforms, yet they're completely legit businesses, you know, and they're totally allowed and they're legal. So first step, I would say is go to Google, check out the policy guidelines, read through it. Especially if you're going to be investing this much money into ads, it's, you know, it's worth knowing what you're dealing with. Second, in terms of the subtle nuances of advertising, so exaggerated claims is something that like always gets ads disapproved. For example, this pill will make you three inches taller. Like it doesn't work obviously that's, it's like sailing snake oil. So keep the exaggerated claims to a minimum. In terms of the copy. You shouldn't try to personalize to people's characteristics too much. There's, there's a whole bunch of these policy guideline checklists that you should be aware of. Now when you're going to the next level, you've validated product, you've, you know, you're starting to ramp up the spend. What can also happen is let's imagine you put your card on the account and your card is linked. It's a credit card and it's just billing. It's just billing. And let's imagine you travel to a new state or a new country. That can trigger an alert and it then can trigger a suspicious payment restriction. And in the eyes of the algorithm, because remember, this is all still in the automated process, they think that someone has access to your account from a new location, new ip. Oh, let's block everything. So again, it may not be the case, but this can be something else that can lead to a ban. Things like that can lead to these issues. Now one way that we help to solve these issues and is that we provide a higher level ad account. These are kind of prevented green status ad accounts and they're direct From Meta, Google, TikTok from their authorized sales partners. What that means is that accounts, they don't get banned easily, they have unlimited spends limits from day one. They have a dedicated rep and you're pretty much just getting everything running smoothly. Another thing is these accounts are on a prepaid model so you don't have to worry about putting your card or debit card and having suspicious payment issues. Instead you can actually load up funds on the account to spend. For example, if you have a phone, you put credit on the phone, right? Use it for data calling, texting. Same principle here. You put funds on the ad account, they're called agency accounts and you spend those funds. And we are one of the providers, you know, we're partnered with some that authorized sales partners to provide this to the wider advertising industry. And right now we have over 400 clients spending around 100k daily across the board. Wow.

I did, I feel like I've heard about the agency thing but I didn't know that's where it is right now. That's impressive. Yeah, I was going. My question before you got to that was going to be do you recommend. One of the things I did on one of my ad accounts years ago was I got a dedicated card that wasn't gonna, you know what I mean? It was just basically advertising card.

To get around some of that. Because yeah, when you travel and you're using it, if I'm speaking somewhere, you know, regardless of where it's at, the last thing I want is ads going down or even worse, like I'm stuck at an airport or something. I mean I always have cash on me. But.

What do you think of separating it? If you can't qualify for an agency account, do you think you should have a dedicated card or use it? Same as everything else, it's definitely a.

Good workaround for preventing those kind of issues. What I would also say is that if you do have said dedicated card, just make sure that whenever you do travel to a new location, maybe use a DPN to keep it at the previous location that you were at. But yeah, it's definitely a good workaround. If you're not spending really thousands and thousands of, you know, per month. I don't think it's that major of an issue. It's only when you start to really scale up that, you know, in the eyes of meta or these platforms, a day or more. Yeah, I mean you could say 100 a day or you could say like maybe 500 to a thousand a day. That's when, when, when, you know, you really start to run into the issues. And again, it's also compliant side. Right. Can't really run anything that's risky or, you know, in the gray area. You should keep everything clean.

Yeah, for sure. And that's why I wanted to bring it up because everyone I know was always doing legit stuff and it was like, okay, this person's getting rejected for this, this person's getting rejected for that. It's like literally one word in the title or the call to action was the wrong URL, like one of them. The whole thing passed. It was just some stupid URL rename.

Didn'T match up to the website, like literally 100%. One had a S in the name, one didn't like book versus books. Yeah, it was just the weirdest stuff. And I'm like, really? The whole thing is hinging on. And Again, this is five, 10 years ago when I was trying to learn it. It was actually like 8 or 12 years ago when I was trying to learn it. But it's not my forte. I stick with the book publishing now. But it's why I'm glad there's people like you going, all right, here's what you need to do. Here's what you need to do. So can you get anyone an agency account or how does someone qualify for that? Or you have to prevent them.

Yeah, so we have quite a large team in the last. So we only founded a year and a half ago. And in that space, you know, we've hired 25 full time employees and we have account managers and much every time zone. So we have account managers in the us, Europe, Asia. You have full coverage. And what we do is. And not everyone can apply because first of all you need to have an offer that's compliant. We are communicating daily with our reps. So let's imagine, you know, Mario selling ties. Well, we would take that URL mario ties.com to our rep and say, hey, is this good to go? They would say yes or no. Change this, this and this. So based on the feedback, we would communicate that to you. Because remember, you're not really getting this feedback Anywhere else, are you? You're not getting, you know, direct line to Facebook where they're actually giving you feedback on what can or cannot run. So we do bridge that gap of compliance as well. Another thing that's one of our secret weapons is that when matter did lay, you know, 11,000 people, I told my team, hey, go find me someone who actually knows what they're talking about. You have. Julia is one of our compliance managers now, and she really helps with everything, like this CBD brand. It's cbd, you know, but they managed to get live. We have melatonin clients. We have, you know, we have different types of clients in different types of verticals which are normally very high risk. So, you know, what I would say is that if anyone is out there just looking to start advertising, just do it on your personal ad account. Everyone has access to a personal ad account. You log into Facebook, go to the top, right. You can run an app. But again, there's limitations to these things. You know, your spend limits. When you're. It's a fresh ad account, you can only spend like 20 bucks a day. Then you have to build up the billing day, it's 100. So if you're starting off, you're testing, that's all good. But if you're really, like, looking to scale to the next level, as some of the business might, well, those limits are not going to help you. They're going to last for weeks. Whereas with an agency account, they're unlimited spend from the day one. Yeah.

Once you have the offer, that's converting, you know, the goal is to have an ad that works and is converting and generating a ROI or roas turn on ad spend.

Yeah, exactly. You need to have something validated. I mean, look, we. We do help some beginners as well. Even in their testing process. We previously did, you know, set a minimum of like, you must spend 15k per month. But then we understood that, hey, you know, some have potential to spend more. They just need to validate and test certain things, especially if they have a proven track record from before. The only thing we don't tolerate is people coming to us and trying to sell snake oil using our attic. That's not going to fly, you know, And Mario, I have many stories, you know, we have all kinds of clients trying to.

What's the craziest one? You don't need to name them. You can tell me after we get off the air. But tell me, tell me a good one or three.

Okay, wait, let me think. So, yeah, we met this one Guy at a conference in Dubai. It was the affiliate world conference. Now. Great conference, friends. Very well run. We actually are going to the Barcelona one this year. We have a premium booth there. So if anyone's there, come say hello to the orange trail booth. But this guy comes over to us and is like, hey, guys, I heard you help with, you know, running ads through agency accounts. Can I get one? And I'm like, okay, I mean, let's talk. What are you running? And he said, yeah, I'm gonna be running Elon Musk's face with a Tesla bitcoin scam where people have to send you one bitcoin to get two bitcoin rack. So I looked at the guy. I was not. I thought he was trolling me. I thought he was joking. But he genuinely wanted to run Elon's face and had, like, the text, you know, Tesla is giving away its bitcoin reserves. We're gonna send you 2 bitcoin if you send us one. So it was like one of those classic, you know, he flat out said.

I'm looking to scam people.

He had lit. I thought he was joking and. And he was pure serious. So then I recalibrated. I was like, wait a minute, are you serious? He's like, yeah. And I said, well, no, man, sorry, I can't help you there. See you later.

Is this is. I mean, that's hilarious. Unfortunate and bad. But it's also. I want everyone to hear that because there's so many good people who are afraid to just even talk about their business. And you get this joker who comes up going, I'm literally plagiarizing someone's face and brand or what would it be? Liable whatever is written versus the thing. And I'm flat out telling you I'm looking to scam people.

Yeah.

This dude had no lack of confidence.

It's not even that. It's lack of morals and ethics. And look, you'll find some of those people in the world, especially if you're.

Not like, one on one with them. And they don't flat out say that. Can you just look at the ad or just get a feel? Do you do, like, require a zoom call to just test them out if you're unsure?

Yeah. So again, great question. And I'll tell you exactly how. We go through our compliance check. So when a client comes to us, they're interested in an ad account we don't open. Even if they pay us, we don't open it, you know, until we approve them. So the first step Is before we even take payment, we need to make sure that they're compliant. We ask for their URLs, we ask for what they're planning to run and you know, just some, some fitting questions. Once we get that, we send it to the reps and say, hey, take a look. All good. And also our in house compliance manager also takes a look from there. And this has happened before, by the way. Everything might look good, you know, on the front end, but what they do is we get approved and open the account for them and then later they change things around, they add things like, you know, that would be non compliant. And what we have in house is a monitoring system where we check routinely their ads, make sure everything is by the book. So we, we have a really strict compliance process in place. And also aside from that, we sign agreements with every single client making sure, you know, their entity, everything is at risk in case they do try to, you know, scam anyone. Because we don't tolerate that. It's just from a moral.

Yeah, I've joked about it hundreds of episodes now. I mean, early on I get all kinds of people that want to be on the show because, oh, you should have me on because I just started this thing and it would be really great publicity for me.

Okay. And what good would it be for me and my audience and you know, when we're vetting people? I just posted on Facebook because it was on my mind years ago. But it's not that you're not qualified, it's just that I don't like you. Like, there's some people who have the business and there's, there's a lot of people that are successful in business, but I'm like, I just don't like them. They seem like a creepy. He seems like a prick.

Yeah. And one more thing to add to that. I completely agree with you. It's when you are behind your computer, you do feel invincible, especially when it's incognito. You don't have your face behind anything so you feel like you can get away with it. But you know, do you believe in karma? Do you believe in something because eventually it will come back to bite you?

Absolutely. You reap what you sow.

Absolutely. And if, even if it's not, you know, law enforcement is coming at you, whatever you make from ill gotten ways, you know, from, you know, just shady ways, that money you receive will leave you just as fast as you get it, you know, ultimately. And I do, I do believe in that.

So, yeah, I can tell you're Very, very adamant about that, as you should be. And I mean, when you said hide behind the computer, I'm like, wow, that is so powerful. Because so many people do. It's why they don't want to go on video or do a live stream or anything, because they're like.

There'S over a dozen people I personally invited on this show from day one, and I do believe they're qualified. And for whatever reason, I don't know if they think they're gonna find out or, you know, a couple of them has been revealed, like, thanks God they didn't come on because there was stuff going on I didn't know about. But it's always interesting, the behind the scenes, doing it live like this, doing all the different things. There's certain people who just don't want to be out there for whatever reason. And it's always curious to me, like, how come Are you really trying to help people? But then on the flip side, you get this dude who comes up to your booth, he's not behind a computer, and flat out says, I'm going to scam people. I want to scam people.

And look, you know, there's a lot of advertisers that have skeletons in their closets. You know, it can happen for sure. But again, like I said, you know, we have a very strict process of compliance.

Yeah, it sounds. It sound. It sounds like it. So how long does this process take? Take. Can you go through it in a few days, a few weeks? Or do you purposely make them wait 30 days or more just to see if they swat it out?

No, no, no, no. Of course, we. We pride ourselves on our service. So remember, if you're in the service space, you know, industry, you better make sure your service is good. So we pride ourselves on our 24. 5 support. You have Monday to Friday account managers in any time zone. They'll be responding to you in Slack within 15 minutes. So that's 24 hours a day. And in terms of the account opening process. So once a URL is appro. Your account within a few hours, it's really fast. Top ups and adding access, removing access again within a few hours. So we're quite literally like passes in the industry because we understand people are excited, they want to run their offers, they want to scale this time the better.

Okay, so you're not teasing them on. Teasing them along for 30 days to go. Okay. You qualify.

Not playing hard to get, Mario. Only with.

Only with what?

New girls. We play hard to get.

Gotcha. Yeah. And it's Good, because I know some people and as much as I was joking, there are people who go, we literally make them wait or do multiple meetings just to see if they get antsy because anyone can, you know, oh, okay, they're happy now. But you make them wait 24 hours and they turn into a different person. Like hold on, because I'm sure you don't want the people you're bringing on. They're going to be with you long term. You don't look at it as transactional. I can already tell you're looking at it as long term. So yeah, sometimes the only way. What was that old adage, if you really want to get to know someone, go on a vacation with them, live with them.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. It's like, okay, now we're really going to see.

But aside from that, Mario, it's not even that. Let's put that aside for a second. You're a business owner, you want as little friction as possible from point someone contacts you to them closed and you're providing, exchanging service. You know, that's they're giving you money, you're giving them a great service. So as little friction as possible. And look, this really ties in with my background. Obviously I've worked in multiple different jobs. I have a master in psychology and I really understood the subtle nuances of entrepreneurship. The pillars of entrepreneurship. This is my fourth million dollar business and I understood that there's four key pillars for what are those? Sales, marketing, legal, finance. Okay. If you master these four, you're a well rounded entrepreneur. Now it's rare that an entrepreneur will have all four kind of master. Personally, my vice is finance. I hate numbers. So I just hired the right people that do know numbers and they just present it to me in a concise report. But again, let's talk about sales. So the streamlined process that we have right now is, you know, we have multiple funnels for client acquisition. You know, whether that be paid ads or email marketing or partnerships or you know, shout outs, events. We have multiple funnels. Clients are coming into us, they're having a call with us and the biz dev team is saying okay, what's your URL? Okay, you know, here's your offer, here's our pricing, all good to go boom into slack. So you want as little steps as possible between the time they're in our slack and between the time they pay the invoice and the account is set up. So I don't understand how the people you mentioned, you know, they want to make people wait. What is that Is that a power play? It just makes no sense from a business point of view.

That's a really good point. I kind of wish they were here right now so we could get their side on it. But I. I personally think, like, you're saying the psychology and it was always one of my favorite subjects. I never mastered in it in school, but impressive. I think it has more to do with. I would narrow it down to their lack of confidence. Maybe it's something so they can feel comfortable about the process, and that's where they are right now. You know what I mean? And then the other thing is, I would have to say, yeah, maybe it is a little bit of a let's see how long we can stretch this out for just to see what their reaction is type of deal. But I love that you're bringing up the points from a business standpoint. If you can chop that out and go, okay, what does this make sense for business? No one wants to be in lines. No one wants to wait longer than they have to. How many times have we paid for first class or VIP so we can be like, screw this, I'm jumping to the front.

Yeah. And I kind of hate Amazon right now because they've just set the bar up here, like, one day. Prime everything. You know, it's. And look, you know, that's why they're succeeding. That's why Jeff Bezos, one of the richest men in the world, because he understood people. Look, we're in the age of fast food and instant replays. You know, everyone wants everything fast, fast, fast, fast. Especially with platforms like TikTok now degrading everyone's attention spans, especially our youth. So what you see now is just everyone wants everything fast, you know, and you really need to, you know, within your capabilities, of course, try to provide it as fast as possible, at least faster than your competitors and better. Because if you're not what is your competitors, you really don't have one.

I remember when Prime. I remember when prime didn't exist. And then I remember when it was like five days, then it was three, then it was two, and it was like, wow, you can get it overnight. Or this. I just ordered something recently at like 1:30 in the morning, and it was here by like 11, like 6, whatever the math is. It wasn't even 12 hours. And I was like, there's no way. I was just kind of relaxing. Watching a movie probably. Okay, whatever. Totally forgot about it. Next day, I go outside, it's on the porch. I'm like, what the heck's This, I thought it was something I ordered last week. I'm like, oh, that was like six hours ago.

What would you say to someone who's going, how can we compete with, you know, we're not a billion dollar company.

How. What would you recommend to someone going, how can we speed up our cycle regardless of where they're at?

Great question, Mario. Give me five seconds. I'm just going to take my dog out of my office because he snuck in and now he fell asleep and he's snoring. So let me just take him out.

Couldn't even tell. No big deal.

Sorry about that.

Yeah, no problem.

And he loves falling asleep just randomly, instantly and then starts snoring. So it disrupts me. So regarding your question, someone's not a billion dollar company, how can they excel at whatever. Excel at whatever they do? You know, there's a famous quote, whatever you do, be the best at it or be good at it. Right. Doesn't matter. You know, if you're, if you're a coffee shop selling coffee, you know, you're some kind of marketing agency selling a specific service, you just make sure you're good at it. What I found, and one common recurring theme in my successes in my businesses is, and let me remind you again, so 4 million dollar businesses, this is the first agency. The other three were E Commerce like stores and brands. And what I found is that you get paid in proportion to the level of problems you solve. The bigger the problem, the more you get paid. One of my brands was in the sleep niche. I sold memory foam pillows with a cervical arch that helped with neck pain. What is for people who sleep in the world? Everybody. Of that, how many actually struggle with, you know, aches and pains and discomfort? Probably a large contingent, right? So that was a really acute pain which I was solving with this simple product. And I was selling one pillow for around 50 bucks, right? So that was a problem and I solved it with a solution. Similarly, now with Orange Trail, we help with the advertising brands. How big of a problem is, you know, advertising restrictions? Huge. Everyone gets, you know, faced with these issues. We're solving it with our, you know, compliant agency ad account solutions. So anyone listening out there, if you haven't already started a business, try to think about a problem that you see. Reverse engineer from that problem and try to find solutions and offer them. And then in terms of optimization, think about how you could do it better, faster and cheaper. Because you really need to look after the third one. You really need to look after your margins. The profitability aspect is really going to make or break your business. With us, we bootstrapped so, you know, with Orange trail, we did 20 million revenue in the last 10 months. That was all bootstrapped. We didn't take any VC money, any investor money, because we understood you take money from investors, you're going to have to answer to them even when they don't understand the business. So for people listening out there, find some kind of solution to a problem. If you have an existing business, think about how you can do it better. What add ons can you add? How can you increase your average order value? You got a coffee there? Okay, maybe an upsell may make a bundle, you know, so always be thinking in terms of, you know, key metrics like average order value. How can I make sure the customer is going to come back for the lifetime value? How can I make sure, you know, just cross selling different products, solving problems. So, you know, these are all just principles that people get from business acumen. Listen to podcasts like, you know, Mario, read books. These, these are ways that unfortunately it does come with experience and not really, it's not really something you can learn. You got to make the mistakes. You got to really in the field feel these pains.

And then.

Would you say there's too many people who are trying to do it perfect and not make the mistakes and that's what's holding them back?

This is one of the biggest issues every entrepreneur faces, even including myself. I, I'm telling you that everyone tries to just, they have everything. Let me get this. What? No, the color is off on the website. No, let me get that headline right. No, you just do it. Go figure it out as you're doing it. That's the best way you can do it. You figure it out as you're going because what, what happens is paralysis by analysis when you are just too long thinking about something and few months have gone by and you actually haven't done anything right. So again, really good point, Mario. I really don't think people should try to get everything perfect. You get the product, live service life, and then you just figure it out as you go.

Yeah, it's, there's so many facets we could be talking about and it's, I'm trying to remember what the quote was. It was something like you get good by failing, but you, you fail because you're trying to get good. It was basically what we're talking about now where it's like you're trying to do it, but you're not going to figure out how to do it the best way for you, in your circumstances, for your audience. Unless you fail and you know it's never going to go perfect. I'm like, oh, that's interesting.

Yeah, absolutely. And at the start, look, you will be the sales, you will be the marketing, you will be the legal and finance. And that's good. You need to be. Because in order to hire for those positions and hiring is a big part of, you know, our core, the right team in place. Exactly. Like, look, 25 people in a year and a half, like, you know that that wasn't easy to. Hiring the top talent and retaining top talent. That's something that people don't talk about because you might hire, but there might not be the best fit. So my philosophy is hire fast, fire faster. If they're not, you know, just, they're not a fit, they're not, you know, putting results. We put in a clause in our independent contractor agreements where it's a 60 day trial, all fully paid, you'll get every commission, whatever you're entitled to. But if you're not performing, it's not a good fit, culture wise, we just let you go. We say, look, it's really not working out.

Where have you found is the best place to find the right talent?

So now you want the secret sauce, Mario.

So it's not really the secret sauce. I'm honestly curious because there's couple people I let go recently and I'm like, you know, I mean, there's certain things I've tried and it's like. And there's people I talk to and it's like I find some have like, they're not using traditional sites or anything. It's like completely all over the board. I think your secret sauce would be like over a hundred steps long. I'm just curious if you're like the Facebook person. If you just went on LinkedIn and was like, hey, we know you got let off lately. If it's something as simple as that. Some people say like upwork or monster or whatever, glass door.

It's a really good question.

Some of those I kind of hate, to be honest with you. I'm curious if you're using if. I actually was hoping you don't say those because I'm like, okay, good, I'm not wrong here.

So I'm happy to share. Of course, what we found is. And by the way, this took a lot of trial and error, believe me. We had to fire a lot of people. And what we found is that the top talent that will stay with you and again, it does depend if it's a digital business and it's remote work or you need physical employees in a city. So it does depend on those factors. However, if it's a, you know, digital business and it's remote work, what we found is that any of the freelancing websites are not a good fit. Why? Because when you hire one person and they tell you, yeah, I'm only working for you, they'll probably have three other jobs for other agents. Tension is divided. The results are not as up to par. So what we found is we, we, you know, we use headhunters as well. But what we found is that if you launch ads on LinkedIn and Joe Post jobs there, that has been the best source of talent for us. However it goes further, don't just launch any boring ad. Have you ever actually seen a LinkedIn ad from a, like a corporate company? It's so boring. We are looking for X, Y and Z. Make it more interesting, spice it up. We kind of structured it and my business partner area, you know, really took the lead on this was we structured it almost like a marketing, like an ad. So it's a job post, but we structured it like an ad. We had, you know, the Socrates principle of three yeses. So we'd ask three questions where they would definitely have to answer yes to. Are you looking for a fun and dynamic, you know, workplace? Are you looking to be paid, you know, adequately for your worth? Are you looking for, to be a part of like a fast growing company? Like we have these, you know, questions at the start. We put emojis in there and we just really spiced up the job post from there. We launch ads on LinkedIn and LinkedIn is really good for this, by the way. If you promote your ad, okay, you might pay like 20, 50 bucks a day, but you're really getting top, top talent. And then the next process is like people just go for an interview and then yes or no? No, that's not really the way you should do it. You should try to incorporate in there. Okay, you can have a work sample test first then.

I've done that.

Yeah, that's really good. And the reason for that is because you are filtering. Because no matter if it's LinkedIn or not, you still will have some dummies applying to you that have no business applying to you.

Right.

So what you should do is filter them out and see their capabilities with this work sample test. And it doesn't have to be something crazy long, you know, because they don't owe you anything. But it can be something short just to see how do they, how do they think? Have they delivered the job sample test in the timeline, for example, we give them 48 hours. If they complete within the timeline we know, okay, they can adhere to strict timelines and they take ownership of their work. So you're looking at multiple facets. And LinkedIn by far has been the best source of our talent so far.

Wow. Well, thank you for that, Tracy. You're going to love this because.

Tracy's helping me with LinkedIn stuff. She's a LinkedIn expert I've had on my show, friend of mine also and I did do a job posting on there and I had 70 app 73 applicants within 20 minutes. And I was like, holy smokes, there's people on LinkedIn still. Again, it wasn't a forte until a few months ago. But yeah, thank you for telling me that because I kind of picked up on it, didn't dive into it, but and this was just the organic, the post a job thing, it wasn't really the ad side of it. I used to do that on all the platforms and send them to what I call a reverse sales funnel. So instead of trying to sell them, you know, a product or service or whatever, it's like, would you like to work for the. And I had video. I incorporate video with everything. So it was like have them watch the video to the, to the testing thing. If they can't watch a two minute video, probably going to be hard to get through a project with us.

You know what I mean?

It's like, oh, sorry, I didn't. Or send in a video of why we like go on video telling me why we should hire you. Oh, sorry, I don't have a camera. You don't have a phone today.

So one extra piece of nugget I would give to your audience as well. Don't just look for the, you know, tier one countries like us, uk, Australia, I want, you know, only those. We have a lot of top talent and I'm talking X, McKinsey, X, E, Y, like top tier companies working for us now and we found them in places like Serbia, Colombia. You know, there's a lot of talent in emerging markets as well and the benefit there is you have really smart people, really good and for a fraction of the price.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. I've always had people around the world on my team and it's reminded me of one of my favorite companies, Basecamp, Jason Fried had in his book Rework. It's like Talent is all over the place. You know, boardrooms are toxic. I'm like, yes, you know, so yeah, I appreciate you sharing that with us. You dove into a little bit behind the scenes. If you could give us a little bit more. So clearly you're smart, clearly you're successful. But take us back to childhood, middle school, high school, like you have these degrees and everything. How did you even go into psychology and some of the other stuff long before this?

Yeah, I think we're like pretty far into the podcast and now we're just talking about who I am. It's interesting, it's good, it's like the opposite. But yeah, my background is I was growing up in Ireland, went to school there when college is there. And in terms of psychology, so it was not something not many people know about me is when I was in my teenage years, I was actually a magician. I used to do like card tricks, cointre. I used to do hypnosis. Yeah, it was, it was my, it was my hobby. You know, I was even in a club. There was a society of Irish magicians, sim. Similar to Hogwarts, I guess. And I was in that club and I was just thinking like, how can I read people? How can I hypnotize? That's what kind of sparked my interest in the study of the human mind and behavior. So I did my bachelor in psychology in Ireland. And then another thing maybe most people don't realize is that when you do a bachelor, you're not actually a psychologist yet. Even if the degree was, you know, honor psychology, you're not a psychologist. In order to become a psychologist, you need to specialize. So you need, you know, a master for that, maybe a PhD for that. So I really had to find somewhere that was not in Ireland. I really wanted to go travel, by the way. And I'll tell you this, one year when I, you know, went over to the Netherlands, the south of the Netherlands for my master, that's where I really grew into myself. So for anyone listening out there and you know, you've always just stayed in your hometown city, you've never really traveled. Believe me, it really broadens your horizons, it gives you different perspectives and it can push you beyond your comfort zone to the point where real growth actually happens. And when I was in the Netherlands, that's when I was like doing my master. But I was also working like three part time jobs, you know, in different events and including myself and everything. And that's how I actually started my first E Commerce, you know, adventure. I tapped into Google one Day I was like, how can I make money online? Watch the video. First one turned out to be some kind of like pyramid scheme scams. I was like, no, no. And then the second one, it was the E. Commerce dropshipping model. So that's actually how I began.

Wow, so many great points in there. And I did not know that. And it's why I like asking. And yeah, I told you I was going to make it organic and see what happens. And yeah, we got sufficiently into it. But I really do did want to know. And it's interesting because I think sometimes people see, oh well, you know, he's here, you know, she's here, whatever. But it's like, you know, I find that often it's something we did in grade school, middle school, high school. I was studying psychology too. I've always wanted to help people and I really thought I was going to go into it. And it's interesting, interesting. And I'm sure you can relate with all the marketing we do, how much psychology goes into marketing, right?

Huge. Yeah, absolutely. Consumer psychology is just so interesting because look, what is psychology study about human mind and behavior, right? What are, you know, behavioral steps that consumers carry out? So you have all these principles like scarcity, you know, social proof, you know, authority. You have all these principles that are regularly bombarded at you on a daily basis. Look at any billboard, walk past any shop, you know, you, you'll see all these little psychological principles and it's just kind of going to into your peripheral. But it's a huge part of marketing. And anytime, you know, we, right now we have internal like copywriters that write for us. But before when I was launching my first ads, you know, selling my pet products and everything online, you really have to think like, okay, how can I write something which will drive home and you know, emotionally hook a potential customer but also, you know, add enough value in the copy to convince them. So it's huge, huge part of marketing.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. And it's interesting because me personally, everything I wanted to go into, I'm now able to do through my business. Even though I didn't go, I'm going to start a business to be able to do this, this, this. I just look back and I'm like, holy smokes. Everything I've learned, I've incorporated. And that's why I think mine is, differentiates itself, let's say. And clearly it's the same for you too. So yeah, we're kind of similar in that, that route. So thank you for sharing that with us. And I guess I'll ask you this, I don't think you saw it, but here's another thing. Got the wheel of whatever you want. Yellow or black questions?

I'll take yellow.

All right, where's the yellow at? Let's go with this one.

Out of everything you've accomplished, where do you see yourself in the next 10 years?

Oh, that's deep.

I do see myself, you know, starting a family. That's something I'm looking forward to. You know, so business, society, on a personal level, that's, you know, I'm 28 now, but I definitely want to start a family. And I don't have experience fatherhood and you know, just see my little creation and you know, help them to become the best versions of themselves. So that's one thing. Second thing, you know, maybe business oriented would be just to have as much of my potential explored as possible. Because one of my biggest fatigue, Mario, is, you know, and maybe I've watched too many sci fi movies, but you know, imagine there's a parallel universe, you know, alternative universe, and you see the best version of yourself. What could have been compared to what you are. So my biggest fear is unfulfilled potential. And you know, every day it's a, it's a new opportunity to improve yourself. So I really do want to like explore the highest level of my potential. And that means that, you know, those days that you really don't feel like getting up and doing things, you actually do it because you realize, okay, this is the only one shot we got, you know, what good is it laying down on a couch monetary wise? I definitely have like a goal of 100 million net worth at some stage. That's, you know, that's, that's like a few money, you know, that's like I'm gone, you know, I'm retired. That's, that's, that money, that's generational wealth.

Do you have, do you have an age attached to that? You said at some point. But would that be 40 for you? 50, 60?

I think 40 would be the peak. By then I should have it. Yeah.

And have. I'm going to go even deeper. And have you thought what you would do with it if you had that hundred million right now? What would you be doing with it?

Yeah.

Never really think about it unless you have that kind of wealth. Right. So it's a good question. But I do think having some kind of gauge of giving back is really important. I'm quite religious. I pray every day. You know, I believe in always doing the right thing. So giving back in some way to the less fortunate, for sure, like, that's a big part. But aside from that, you know, you know, we're entrepreneurs at heart. You know, we're not really going to stop ever. Right. So a large part of that would have to be reinvested into some new project. Let's go for a billion.

People do it all the day, all the time. And I legitimately ask. Asking you, because there's people who do it, and I don't know if you've met some of them, but they say a lot of the same stuff we do. It's. They've just been doing it longer. You know, the timing was right. They went more aggressive with it. But it's like, you know what I mean? You talked to Richard Branson, and it's like he. Yeah, I started with this. I love the story. When he was. Before he started Virgin Airlines, like, he couldn't get a ticket on a plane or something like that, so he bought a charter jet without the money. Went on the Runway holding up signs saying tickets to wherever the heck the plane was going for 200. He wanted a seat that bad. I think to close a deal. He sold out the whole freaking plane that he didn't even have the money to pay for. He said, I'll be back in an hour or whatever. Literally standing on the Runway. I'm like. I remember standing on the side of the road selling bottled water with my. The girl I was seeing at the time on fourth of July because she was so negative and, like, you know what we're talking about, like, why you have. Don't believe certain things. And I was like, I'm just gonna prove it to her. I didn't need the money, but I went to the grocery store, got a couple cases of water. And, you know, if you have a hundred cases of water you bought for 10 cents apiece and you're selling them for a buck, that's a profit margin. And then I think I left her there because we sold so many, came back, and it was Memorial Day weekend where all the cars were. You know how they don't move? Kind of like going into an amusement park. There's no safety issue. We're just do, do, do, do, do. And it was. I think it was. What was it, a dollar a bottle or six for five or something. So, I mean, it's just getting creative with it. So all of this is possible and just execution.

You executed what others could not. It's not a crazy idea. You Just literally what others want, you know, it's execution thing.

Yeah. And you were talking about that. Finding the solution. So many people. My first business, I was 12, I painting lawns and all that. I came home after church, I saw a guy that looked completely miserable cutting his lawn. It's hot out and everything.

I just pulled in his driveway. Doesn't look like you're having fun. Nope. You'd rather be on the boat, wouldn't you? Uh huh. I'll be back in 20 minutes. Why don't you go pack a cooler. He goes, how much? I go, 20 bucks. And he just walked away. That wasn't a hard sales pitch, that wasn't a funnel, that wasn't making sure the microphone had the right colors that are matching. That's just finding a need and solving it.

You did that at 12. I'm impressed.

Yeah, well I wasn't driving at 12. Started the business at 12.

Sold that one to start this one when I was in college. Wow.

I'm actually impressed by that.

So that client would have been around 16 at least. I mean I was driving, but yeah, I had at least a dozen clients before that. Just walking. Yeah.

But actually just before I forget, so what you mentioned about Richard Brands, I didn't know that story. That's really interesting by the way, how we actually did the design. That's pretty interesting. But in terms of like, okay, when you have an exit. So I'll give you a smaller example. I actually had an exit in 2020. Well actually startup 2021, I sold my sleep brand that I told you about. Okay. In, in Vancouver in Canada. So they purchased my brand. I had a bunch of money and I had a bunch of time and I just went on this like hiatus for like six months. I didn't do anything at all. I was in Bali, by the way. I was living there for four years. So I was in Bali, had a bunch of money, a bunch of time. And you know, that was probably one of the periods of my life where I felt maybe depressed, unfulfilled. And, and the reason for that, looking back now, as they say, hindsight is 20 20. The reason for that was I had no other backup. I had no other contingency plan. I had no momentum. Momentum is key for business growth. And when I sold the brand, I didn't have anything else to do to transition into. Absolutely. And that's why I highly recommend if anyone is ever going towards an exit in the future, you're going to, you know, sell your business or whatever. Great. It's, it's a very nice process. You know, it's, it's very fulfilling as well. But once it's done and it's dusted, you got the money in the bank, you better damn sure have something back up because if you don't, you're going to be lost, you know, okay, take a little one, two week vacation, but after that get back to work. Because it's ikigai. It's the Japanese. If you've read this book, you know there's a city in Japan which has the highest average age in the world. It's around 100, 110. It's crazy. And the scientists from all over the world were flying in to this city trying to figure out why is it this one specific city of 100k or 200k population in Japan that people live the longest. And they started interviewing all of the residents, they started to ask, hey, can you tell me a little bit about your day to day life? What do you do? How do you, you know, stay busy? And a lot of them said even after they retired, stop working, they took up something else, a hobby, gardening, you know, you know, selling fruit or whatever. Just some kind of hobby which allowed them to stay busy, have something to look forward to each day and have purpose. That purpose obviously combined with a healthy diet. Of course, don't eat McDonald's every day. Well, maybe, you know, to allow you to live a long, happy life.

Wow, this is so surreal. One of our author clients, I can't say the name of the book, but the focus of it is having a purpose. And we're going extremely deep on all the different avenues and all the different things you can do. Because there's so many people who are unfulfilled, whether it's a job, business, like you're saying you had a successful career and now what, you're going to sit there and watch grass grow?

Yeah, absolutely. You need to have something to work towards. And it doesn't even have to be like business. It could just be something as little as volunteering somewhere.

Yeah, I was just thinking of people at church. They might not want to start a business, but they love helping people have a better experience.

Yeah, absolutely. And you see the ROI instantly. You see, you know, someone's face light up, you know, and it's kind of cleaning your soul. It's cleansing your soul. For me, you know, Ramadan Muslim. So Ramadan is a time where we fast and you know, I always go around to the less fortunate, you know, I buy them groceries, I, you know, give them food Money for whatever they need. And you really see like the struggle that they're facing. And when someone just has a random act of kindness. Yeah. It's, it's, you know, altruism has a very beautiful way to clean your soul.

It changes it because they may have never experienced that in their life before.

Yeah, yeah. But now what you see is all these young kids, you know, doing it, but then having a phone, like recording the whole thing, putting it on TikTok.

It's like, can we do that again?

Wow, this is awesome. I gotta cue the sponsor. Thank the sponsor and come back for the imperfect action round. But I'm really enjoying this. I, I feel like we could do a whole other episode just on what we're talking about the last eight minutes. But, but.

You'Re awesome. I'm going to thank the sponsor and we'll come back for the imperfect action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why I'm launching my new book@eapublishingmethodbook.com so you can learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having.

An idea and a possibility to actually getting my book published.

Or Catherine, thank you for making my.

Mom number one best selling author.

Or Mary Alice, what he got done for me in three days regarding my book launch.

Unmanageable.

John Cody. I've worked with Mario over the phone and online and he's been very helpful in getting me where I need to.

To go with promoting my books. Rocio, there's no way in the world I would have been able to do this with somebody else again. I've attempted it in the past. It didn't serve me. As a matter of fact, I ended up more frustrated than anything. So this has been a very seamless process.

Adele, if you're looking for an amazing.

Business coach, I highly recommend Mario Ficini or Bill Benner. I can't make a higher recommendation for than to work with Mario Ficini. He has been great for, for me and right now I won't work with anybody else except for Mario.

Hey, their words, not mine. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get your copy and I look forward to hearing your transformation as our next video success story. Once again, that's eapublishing method book.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Rohan, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Let's go.

Three questions for you. 60 second or less answers. First one is what is the fastest path to the let's go with cash today. What is the fastest path to the cash?

Fastest path to the cash? Find an in demand product or service. Find a low cost way to provide that to the target audience and just optimize and offer it.

Excellent. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Sorry, could you repeat Prospects in what way?

What is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

Good question. So one of the biggest problems that our clients currently have is just a lack of knowledge about advertising guidelines and policy guidelines. So what we are giving away at the moment for free is an ebook. You know, for orange trail, you know we created like a kind of an ebook that's for free with all of the different reasons people get banned. How to get around and how to bulletproof your that's the name of the the ebook Bulletproof how to bulletproof your advertising to minimize bans. That's one way. But if you don't know who are we are go to Google, find out policy guidelines, go to you know, for every platform and really understand them down to a T. You need to make sure that when you're running ads you do it as compliant as possible. If you can't come call us, we'll help you out.

Excellent. You know I'm going to love the ebooks. Huh? Number three, what is the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Excellent question. There's a few ways but ultimately the only way is just having a great service. Listen to the customer. You need to have frequent touch points with customer. Really listen to them. Don't listen to reply, listen to understand. Seek their answers and understand what they're actually saying to you. Because if you really don't understand your customers, they're going to leave you. Well, what I'd also say is give back to them if they've been with you for a while. You know, give them a little extra, you know, you know, a few weeks or whatever. Give, give them some kind of bonus. Add value to them so that they feel appreciated and you'll have the lifetime value because they're happy.

Excellent. All great points. Love everything you're sharing. What books would you recommend to Expert Authority world that have impacted your business and life?

The Compound Effect. Definitely a very good book that has helped me Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goldman it's really, really important that you understand eq. I would dare even say it's more important than iq.

And lastly.

I think.

Yeah, the next five moves by Patrick Bet David that's actually going on as well.

Excellent. And I agree 100%. There's a lot of smart people, but that are some of the smartest people I know are also the dumbest.

Ignorance is bliss.

Where would you like people to learn more.

For Orange Grill? If anyone out there is actually advertising and they're, you know, having issues with bans, restrictions, it doesn't matter which platform. Facebook, Google, TikTok, Snapchat, Twitter, we've got agency accounts for all. We have partnerships with all of the platforms or their authorized sales partners. You can reach out to us at Orange Trail IO book a call with one of our team members. They'd be happy to talk you through all the options, understand more about your business. You can also find us on social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. We're on pretty much we're everywhere. So Orange Trail reach out to us and we'd be happy to take a look and help you out.

Rohan, it's been an absolute pleasure. I so thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing everything you did with us.

It is all Mario. Thank you very much.

All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you on the next one. Have a great day and God bless.

You're already the expert, but have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate qualified leads while increasing profit for you 247 and if so, how well are you promoting it? With my new book, the Expert Authority Effect Publishing Method, I take you through my process step by step. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get started now. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.Com thanks for listening to today's episode. I would love to know what you enjoyed most from it if you haven't done so already. I invite you to connect with me on my new LinkedIn. You can go to it directly at eainterviews.com LinkedIn Once again, that's eainterviews.com LinkedIn lastly, check out the full eainterviews.com site for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'LL see you on the next one.