0508 | Chase Harmer

Hi, this is Chase Harmer. I'm the founder of Wishes, Inc. And you are listening to EA interviews, EA.

Interviews, episode 508, inspiration transformation, success stories and the imperfect action round. Seven days a week. Join Mario Ficcini for today's Expert Authority effect interview. Expert Authority World. We're talking about business, we're talking about money. And as an entrepreneur, you know you need to be having that cash flow come in for your business. But what are you doing about your charitable giving? What are you doing about giving back? And one thing that's near and dear to me is philanthropy. And that's why it's actually chapter seven in my book. And I have none other than Chase Harmer on today's episode of Fintech Disruptor. And we're going to be talking about Wishes, Inc. And how you can help give back and what the payments for specifically nonprofits have to do with business and making the world a better place. I'm excited to bring him up right after we thank our sponsor. Every business needs a book, including yours. And that's why I'm launching my new book to help you, regardless of where you think your current writing abilities are. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com There he is, Ladies and gentlemen, Chase Harmer. Chase, how are you feeling today?

I'm good, I'm good. Excited to be here and looking forward to the conversation today.

I am too. Because there's so many people, I think, that want to do more with nonprofits and I've been blessed to be able to feature some other people that help set up nonprofits and you take over the finance piece of it. I think there's a lot of people that are so charitable and they want to give. They just.

It I feel like.

Certain times a year are more prevalent than others and they want to, they just lack the time or don't have the direction. And I think a third piece we can talk about is how do you know which one is good fertile soil to give to?

Sure. You know, there was a, there was a survey done by the Family School of Philanthropy and it was, it found that 81% of donors would give more if they understood the impact of where those donations were giving were going. And so they want more transparency. And you know, there's a lot of money left on the table because of the fact that people just don't Understand where the dollars are going. And if you go to any grocery store today, they'll all ask you for a dollar or a roundup. But do you know where any of the money goes? The answer is no. And guess who gets the tax write off for all the dollars that are contributed by the customers that are buying groceries?

The store. Right?

Yeah, yeah. This tour, I mean like so you know, to me, like I had gone into too many groceries stores and like I was just really frustrated that after I exited my last FinTech, I really was giving back to charitable charities and causes more often. And I just really never understood where the dollars were going. And I, and like there was not one single charity that could tell me what was happening to the dollar's impact. And you know, I'd spent the last seven years kind of pioneering some of those concepts inside a virtual credit card issuing for businesses on the business side, you know, and I was like, this is like this is an easy problem to solve. Like I could solve this problem, you know. And so, you know, I think people want to give more. Our thesis was if people understood where their money was going and how it's being utilized, they'd give more and more often. And I think, you know, that's my personal theory, but I believe that that will ring true, you know, and you know, we're going to see that in full effect here shortly. So that's really kind of how it all came to be.

So I'm equating it to business. I mean people talk about there's never a money issue. If you say give me 10 grand, I'll give you 100, give me 100 grand, I'll give you a million. I mean that's a no brainer. It's that ROI and it, I, no, that's not completely the same scenario, but the same synopsis psychologically I'm hearing of they want to know where the money's going. If I give you a dollar, ten dollars, a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand, what are you doing with it?

Right, well you know, the ROI is similar to, it's, we call it return on impact. Right.

Okay.

There is no return on impact when you give today. Really like you either have time or you have money. And if you have time, you can actually see your hard work at happening in real time. Like you, your, your payoff is what's going on. Like the physical activities that you're doing, the distribution that you're physically doing. You're out there in the community. But if you don't have time and you have Money like how do you actually understand Those dollars? Most DAFs, by the way, so donor advised funds where people are giving at the end of the year and they're combined with a bunch of other dollars, they can't actually show you what happens to that money. You know, in fact they'll like send you quarterly reports, but your, your money in with like tons of other people's money. So you have no idea really what's happening to your specific dollars. So I think you know where wishes comes in and kind of fills that gap. And I'll kind of give you this analogy or not analogy, but this, this use case that I built for business when we were building the virtual credit card use case out back when nobody was doing it back in 2013, 2012, before Apple Pay was even like a thing, nobody knew Apple Pay like was going to be doing this. Virtual credit cards, they are today. But back in 2012, the only people that were doing it were big banks and it was only being utilized in the travel industry. So the example that pretty much nobody knows about, but it will make a lot of sense on how we built this business model. If you, when you use booking.com or expedia.com or any third party travel booking website, they're not the hotel, they're not the airline, right? So how do they actually make that reservation in real time to that hotel or to that airline? Most people don't know this. Most people don't ever actually think about this. It's like, well, yeah, how do they do it? Well, essentially every, if you think about every sale was a purchase before that, right? So when you're make, when they're taking that money in, what they're doing in real time is they're pushing, putting money on a virtual credit card and they're paying that hotel and they're paying that airline. So essentially they're making arbitrage between both of the credit card rails. But in reality what they're doing is they're charging 300 bucks. They have the booking room for 200 bucks. They put 200 bucks on a virtual credit card and they instantly send it to that hotel or to that airline and they book that reservation. That's why it can be made in real time to do it at a discount. They're making that arbitrage in between. So if you think about what we're doing for donations, we're really just copying a recipe that we really already created right in the business world, which is essentially take donations in, but do it through a 501c3 public charity, which if you look at every crowdfunding platform in existence, they none of them actually can offer you a tax deductible event because they're all built as a for profit. So we actually have a 501c3 public charity. So we take all those donation dollars in, we can give those tax credits, whether it's to a charity, individual or a cause. And how we do as an individual, and this is the kind of the game changer is because when you donate towards a nonprofit, our non profit sole job is to govern the impact of that, govern the impact of that donation. So essentially what the donor is actually doing is donating to the nonprofit, then the non profit is actually governing the impact. So we're able to provide that tax deductible receipt on any donation, whether that's to an individual cause or crisis. Right.

So whether it's a company that's using a donor advised fund or an individual that has one set up, you can track it, you can monitor the impact and also give the credit to the people who are actually doing it.

Correct. And we, I, so I really built this from a donor's perspective. And my CEO, who I heard, her name is Annie Rhodes, she came from the, the social good tech space. So she's really focused on the non profit part of the equation where giving that experience to the nonprofit, she knows exactly what they want to see and all these things. But I know exactly what I want to see as a donor. So I, I'm. What I also wanted to do because I'm like the king of cash back and arbitrage is I wanted to actually be able to earn rewards on a, on a like tax deductible, like on a, on a donation. Like why not if you're using your credit card. So our Nonprofit owns like 20 other companies and those 20 other companies are all specifically categorized for the bonus categories on your credit card. So if you think about, if you're trying to help. So let's take Maui for example, right? Maui. People needed a place to stay, people needed food, people needed an airline ticket out of there, right? So you could actually see a story, hey, I want to help this person, I need to help this family or I want to help this cause. You could actually buy, you can donate towards the airline category on our platform. Get your tax deductible, get your cash back and rewards from your own credit card because your, your credit card offers you cash back and rewards for buying airline or travel or stuff like this, right? Which most credit cards do. So you get your cash back that way, then what we do is we turn those into virtual credit cards. Those virtual credit cards are instantly issued to that family, which is also kind of a big deal because we're, if you look at the market like GoFundMe takes them 10 days to deliver funds to anybody. It takes Facebook 90 days. It takes Instagram 45 days. So we're actually, because of the way that we've rebuilt the financial infrastructure to move money, we. We're able to proactively combat fraud and actually deliver the funds instantaneously. If someone says, hey, listen, I need a place to stay tonight, those dollars can actually only be used on a hotel stay. They can't be used on anything else. So. And you as a donor can always see where those dollars go. So they get pushed into our shopping portal. They can instantly buy a hotel room@likebooking.com, anywhere they would normally spend. We have over a thousand retailers of the biggest retailers in the country inside of our shopping portal. Like think about Sam's Club, Costco, Kroger's Safeway, you know, Walmart, Walgreens, cvs, all of the places that you would normally spend dollars.

So you made nice with all the everyday big players.

Yeah, we became a big publisher also. So our app, we have thousands of the biggest bulk retailers in the world in the United States for sure, in our platform that are already in our platform that allow any of our wishers to instantly go shop for whatever is that, whatever it is they need. But they only could shop for the, the things that they're. They've raised money for technically. So like, if they said, hey, I broke my arm. Health is probably one of the biggest categories there is. Right. But that's also the biggest fraud category that platforms like GoFundMe has. Like people like I, you know, I have cancer. There's a lot of people, I claim I have cancer. And you know, a lot of people will buy into the story because people, you know, unfortunately are really good liars. And so they'll tell a good story. They'll even draw it out. I mean, there's a podcast specifically, I bet, I guess Scamanda, right? Scamanda is about like this lady that faked this whole cancer treatment. And she like, I mean, she did it for years and then later the cat came out of the bag. Like talking about like five, six years later when she like she raised millions of dollars, she had a blog talking about it.

Like, you know, it's reminded me, it sounds very akin of like the Wall street scenarios with the white collar crimes and the Ponzi scheme stuff like, I.

Mean at the end of the day you can only lie. So like eventually you can lie for a while, right? But at some point, you know, the Piper will have to get paid and people will eventually find out what's happening. But unfortunately for platforms like that are in the space today, they can't proactively prevent that from happening ever because of the way that they're built.

So they're more, would you say they're more on the transactional? Like we can do this, we can get people on here. But they're. Well, why do you think that is?

Well, so think about it like they're built on banking rails. So.

So essentially like what happens when you send somebody money to their bank? Do you know what happens after that?

We're talking like Zell or a wire.

Or doesn't matter, Zell, anything. You, you'll never know what happens to that money. You get a click.

I mean it's a matter of it costs this this or this button or that one.

But. Well, that's a one time thing. You, you know where it is when you, before you send it. But once you send it, that money's in a black box. You have no idea where they spend it, how they're going to spend it, what they're going to be doing with it. So the cool thing about, and then the, the thing like if you look at like some of the Netflix specials that are, were made about like the GoFundMe stuff, like I think there was like a, there's a bunch. But.

You know, once it's in that black box, they can do whatever they want with it. There's no, there's no like, hey, people monitoring service, right? Like, what are you doing? Like, where are you going? People will notice later, hey, they bought a boat and they bought a Mercedes. Like, hey, what's going on? Like, and then that's when you know, the investigation starts. But by that time that money's toast.

You know, it could be months later, two years later, 100% right.

But like, so because we're pushing it on cars and we're only allowing them to spend it on the categories that they're raising funds for. We're able to proactively if they're misusing those funds or trying to misuse those funds. First of all, it's like a gas card, you know, like if you get money for the, for a gas, gas card, but you try to go to Macy's with that card, like it doesn't work. Right. You know, so that's the same, same thing. But there are categories where are similar. So you could actually try to spend dollars there. But we have transaction monitoring things in place where if people continually try to misuse cards, we just terminate the cards and roll back the money, push back the money to the, to the, to the, to the donor. So we don't, we, our model allows us to proactively make decisions so we don't actually get into problems like those GoFundMes do. But, and I think that that makes a huge difference and it builds confidence.

Like, yeah, what's the phrase? Ounce of prevention versus a pound of cure.

Yeah, I mean, like if you look at some of the stories like, you know, GoFundMe's like paying millions of dollars back to donors. That money's toast. They're never going to recover that cash. You know, it's gone. You know, but not only that, there's a lot of egg that they have on their face that they have to deal with because of the bad publicity. And that's big part of their story. So they were a really big innovation in 2010. You know, it was like this new thing. Like. But the problem is, is they were built in 2010 or in 2024, you know, and they have the same problems that they did back in 2010. They, they're just, you know, they're more frequent and they have no way to stop it. So and it's because of really the way that they built. And I think that's the difference. There's an, it's just, you know, I, I compare it to like Netflix and Blockbuster, like how Blockbuster, instead of actually innovating and changing technology, they bought more commercial buildings. You know, even though they, and so.

Like they had the DVDs for a hot second there and it was real convenient because you could get a couple of them, watch them and return them the next day. You didn't need to wait for the two, three day leg.

But you know, once you could actually do it from your couch, I mean, that was the game changer. Yeah. And you know, the funny thing is, is that Netflix actually went to Blockbuster and was trying to pitch them on Blockbuster acquiring them. And they were like, they said no. And then they went and bought more commercial buildings. And then like literally within like 12 month period, they were like they were out of business. And I feel like, you know, if two things are being created equal, one platform, you have no idea what happens to the money. You have no idea if the people that you're trying to help or were getting help, you weren't getting any rewards which are not necessary but are all good thing if you can. Right. And then you don't have a tax deductible event or you have a platform that gives you all that information in real time. And I don't even see it as a choice as a donor. I feel like it's just like so obvious, like why would you do it any other way?

So this sounds phenomenal number one. And number two, who would you say are the best use cases for this? Like.

Obviously non profits, but it sounds like you're also marketing to the consumers who will be using it for those nonprofits.

Yeah, I mean I think we bring both sides of the marketplace. So we're that so nonprofits specifically, like we're show we want to showcase the best non profits out there that are transparently giving, like transparently utilizing those funds and they're giving those reports back. And I think, you know, we're going to be kind of giving them some grades inside of the platforms as well. So like donors do understand like where they should be, like where the soil is the best water, you know, and then but you know, individuals can also raise money on the platform and I think by keeping it for non profits, they can raise for a variety of different things, whereas individuals can only raise for category specific things. And I think that's the difference. That's how we actually keep individuals honest. Also is that because they're, they're the wild card right in the, in the GoFundMe game is that, you know, and if you look at classy, classy I think owns GoFundMe but they do like a Venmo type of solution. The problem is with their platform is that, you know, you still don't know what happens to the money afterwards. Right. There is no transparency. And if you ask any donor on the street, like why do you donate or not donate? It's always, well, you know, where's the dollars going? Like what's going to impact what's going to admin. Right?

And yeah, some of the I'm thinking of if it's not charity water, it's it's another Christian ministry. But I remembered they reveal it and.

They said yeah, I think something like.

That, oh, a hundred percent of the donations go to it. So they rely on.

Private donors or something to cover the admin cost and everything. And I'm like, I mean obviously I liked it for personal reasons, but from a marketing sales standpoint, I'm like, it's pretty compelling argument.

Like, you know, but the thing is, is that if you're, if you're disclosing like if you're saying, hey, like any non profit, if they're operating of any size, they're running like a real business, right? And as a real business you have real cost, you have people cost.

So like, and there's other ones that you know, I'll still support. It's not like I'm going to fault them for taking money for payroll and stuff, but when you see admins like 28, 30% versus 5 or 10, it's.

Like, you know, but you can justify. So like there are examples like if you look at like nonprofits like the Khan Academy, right. Khan Academy, gigantic, you know, non profit. It's funded by the Bill Gates foundation and a lot of these other big. But they're all teachers, right? So these are teachers that are teaching, you know, for free, you know, online. So like it is all admin in that case. Right. So these teachers are basically giving time for money, like they're going teaching classes. So that's a, it's a different example. But there are charities out there that, that operate that way. And but I think if you clearly define those, those lines and you say, hey, you know, listen, yeah, we, you know, 20, 10, 30, whatever that is. Yeah.

Regardless, see the amount, as long as you're, I think as long as you're going, here's what it is and here's why.

Exactly, here's why.

But this is versus thanks, see you next year.

And you know, but I think if you look at the non profit side, we're actually helping them raise more dollars. Because non profits, if you're, if you're a brand new non profit, good luck trying to raise money in this market. Right. Number one, people already have that lack of trust. And if you don't have an established brand, they're like, we don't know you, dude. Like no. Right. And but then you have to go back to that donor. Let's just say that you did donate to this nonprofit. You're like, hey listen, here's 50 bucks or here's 1,000 bucks, right? And you maybe believe in their cause or whatever.

That nonprofit is going to come back to you at some point. Be like, hey buddy, you know, we actually are doing another fundraiser here and we need more money. Right. But if they can't show you where those dollars went to that first time, like, are you more or less likely to donate to that nonprofit again?

Less likely, 100%.

Right. So I Think we're doing them a favor because by being transparent, you know, by, by essentially allowing that transparency, you have ammunition to go back to your donors now and say, hey, look what we did with this money. Look at the mission that we're supporting. You know, we're doing a lot of. That's a lot easier conversation to have on a second time around when you're asking for money and say, hey, look. Look what we did with your dollars. Like we're, we're now we're doing this new one and we're going to do this and this and that. Right?

But going back, because at the very least, you could pull a P and L from accounting, obviously hide any sensitive data. But when it's like, is the charity giving to other charities?

Well, that's also. But see, that's also where it gets problematic, right, because how are you going to show an actual individual donor, like their itemized dollars? Right. It's really tough. Right.

Well, I meant on the charity level, because I know there's that one site. I hope you know it. If not, I'll make sure it's in the show. Notes on eainterviews.com about the charity checker or something. Like you can type in whatever charity you want and it will show you their grade.

Or yeah, there's candid too that does that. They have a transparency badge. Like, we're on Canada. We have like a platinum one too. But you know, the more that you exp more data you expose you, you get like higher grades of transparency. I believe, I believe that's what it is.

But that, but that is more difficult. I mean, if you go, yeah, we got a thousand. I mean, I can only imagine a thousand or ten thousand donors. And I know some of these places have hundreds of thousands, millions. And it's like, what did Sally sue do, like for her $17 last August?

Compile it all together. That's the biggest problem. So like, how do you go back to individual donor and say, hey, listen, here's what happened to your money? Like, the only way to really solve this problem is with product that will like what wishes brought to the market is, you know, to really we in device individualize that donor experience. The donors always understand what happens to their money. So I think, you know, on both sides of the coin, you know, nonprofit wise, we're giving those nonprofits the ability to give that donor insight, which allows that nonprofit to raise more funds from that donor in the future. And then on the donor side, we want to be that seen as that level of trust. Like, you know, no matter what. You know, if you look at a, like a crisis, like the my, like the Maui thing. Right. I use this example again, but you have like a major disaster like that. There's a bazillion things that pop up, you know, like fake charities. Right. So how do you know which one to give to? Like, you don't. You don't know anything in Hawaii. Like, how do you know which charity is actually legit? Right. We want to be seen that as that level of trust where donors can always be rest assured that they can donate anywhere and it's always legitimate. But also have that donor dashboard. If you're donating to 20 different charities in a year, that's 20 different companies you got to collect receipts from at some point to give your cpa, you know, we want to be that dashboard where you can just have all this stuff accessible and then you can just, you can just download it and give to your CPA with one little click.

Yeah, that's so much easier. And especially with that transparency of knowing if I can trust you, you're not going to have someone on your network, same way I'm not going to have someone on here.

You know what I mean? It's like you're lending that credibility.

You don't, because frankly, I mean, I understand data. I do it for business so often with publishing and books and the show and different stuff, it doesn't faze me. I developed a software myself, so it's like I'm probably the anomaly. So when I need to look into things, even on a personal level, it's like, oh, it's kind of fun, truthfully. It's like a treasure hunt. But most people aren't like, oh, should I give here, here, here. I don't know, let's do a cost benefit analysis and see what their pros and you know what I mean? It's like.

You'Re really into the weeds. Like, it can become fun, you know, but you know, to most people that are like, trying to just live their life and they just want to help, you know?

Yeah. Especially walking in a store. I, I mean, when you said that the people at the stores and stuff, I'm like, yeah, they were there. They were on the street corner. They were there. And then I got the email. I'm like. And that was like the 10 minutes of one day a few days ago.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's just, it's a joke. You know, actually CVS got into a lot of trouble. I mean, think about it. When no one's looking. And you have that many stores. Like, what do they have? Like 8, 9,000? I mean, how many stores they have? It's a lot, right? I mean, how many millions of dollars, like, even a day, they're probably collecting from donations, like, when no one's looking, it's like, what are people doing? Like, well, they actually had like, an $800 million fine because they. They put their hand in the piggy bank, you know, And I think at some point, you know, like, if there's no, like, transparency, like, how do you actually know? Really?

You don't. That's the scary thing. So let me ask you if I'm. This is like real life, because I'm. I did go in a store, they ignored me and then told me it's only online. I'm like, God bless Blockbuster. It wasn't them, but just the lot. The whole.

Would this work? I'm walking in a store, someone says, do you want to donate? Can I pull out the phone and go and actually donate to them instead of just throwing money in the pot?

Well, yeah. So you could do it through the phone if they. If it's a connect. So, you know, if they're on your network. Yeah, I mean, well, we have. We're connected to Candid, which basically, it's connected to every single charity in the United States. So if there is a charity that you wanted to donate towards and it wasn't on our platform, all you have to do is, you know, you can make a authorization. We actually get in touch and get their story built in the next five days, and then we get the funds delivered to them. So that's awesome.

So even if someone's not on it, it sounds like the people will be telling you, right. Who they want and they're doing. Doing the work for you. Like, I'm thinking of split testing, like, with thumbnails and headlines and stuff. It's like, who should we go next? Beta test, of course, your book cover. Let's find out.

So we actually let the donors decide to buy donor demand, right? So essentially we, as they come in, we just. We go out and grab the. The next one, right? And we just do that by the donor's demand. And, you know, we ran this scenario by my CEO and she's like, I love this. You know, so we essentially have that kind of built into the matrix where, you know, we don't have to go out and try to grab every charity out there. We just. We rely on the donors to tell us what chatteries they want. To donate to. Then we grab them on the back end.

Leverage. Highest and best use of your time.

Yeah. Kill two birds with one stone.

You know, I get it. So this sounds fantastic and everything. And we can dive more into. I don't really see any cons. I was going to say the benefits, you know, the pros and cons. But I want to ask you, you touched on it real quick earlier about your background in fintech and all these different things. How did you get here? You know, take me back 20 years and let's walk through that.

Yeah, so, I mean, I. I entered an ad in the newspaper when I was 19, back when there was newspapers to read. And, you know, I. It was credit. Yeah, Credit card process. Back in 1998, I had just dropped out of college to start on a path to just start making money. I was just really anxious to make money. I had a track scholarship, but I just didn't want to run track, honestly, so.

So I started doing that. And like within like three months, I was running that guy's office. And then I saw how much money he was making. And then I quit the next day and tried to start doing it on my own. Got some money from my mom, failed a couple times, and then turned that into a $40 million a year business by myself with an assistant. And then. But I realized that if I didn't start building technology and value, that I was going to be toast in the long run. Stripe had already come on the market and, okay, they already taken market share. And I was like, man, this is whatever they're doing. Like, they're. Because they basically built like a mouse trap that was like, they weren't the lowest rate ever, right? So it's like, oh, yeah, I could beat their rate. That was the sales pitch. Like, we could be stripes, right? You know, but it's like, well, yeah, but like, it's stripe so easy, right? So they just make it so easy. You don't have to give any paperwork, do all these things. And so that was the value. So what I realized back then was that people didn't really care about the rate if you made it easy. Right.

You could keep. People never care about the money if it saves them time.

Right, exactly. Convenience. It's like, yo, you don't have to give all this paperwork. Oh, perfect. And I can have it, like up on my website in a few hours. Like, oh, my God. Like this. So easy. So. So I started building. I started on this quest to start building technology. And then I had built a, you know, in seven Years I built a gateway, a payment process, a payback which is a payment facilitator. Like we basically were our own payment processor. We built a card issuing rail as our own fraud prevention service. And all this was kind of bundled into one platform to really go compete against a stripe type of market. And just we are, our market was really because we had the card issuing side and we were, what we saw in the E commerce space was E commerce retailers were utilizing their debit card most times because most of these guys, they don't have a ton of money but there are so they everywhere bankrolls their, their business with their like their bank because that's all they got. They don't have credit, right. So they're utilizing their debit card to make advertising purchases but they're not getting any cash back on that. And so I was like, well listen, we can actually issue this, we can create this platform. Then we'd actually give 2% cash back on all the advertising spend through our platform to the E commerce retailers. And that took off. That was kind of the gimmick to get them in the platform. And then we would do the whole enchilada, right the payment processing and they'd use our gateway and blah blah blah. And so that ended up getting acquired by a company called Ariva in the travel space.

And then.

You know, but that was just like probably the, the biggest learning experience of my life. I, I, you know, I had never had.

What was the biggest thing you learned from it?

I mean so first of all I was a non tech founder so I had no idea what I was doing when I started. And they're like, yeah, you got to hire an engineer. I was like, well India of course, right? Like this is where the engineers are, right? That's where you go. So like I go to India. Then I realized after I spent like $200,000 and not having back I was like, you know, that that might not be the actual place for, for to go for the highest quality development resources. You know, not to say that they all are not great. There are definitely firms out there, but there's also firms that will take advantage of you, take you for a ride if you don't know what you're doing. And you know, they're like, you have to have an engineer. I was like, engineer? Like I didn't know what kind. You know, there's actually lots of different engineers. Oh for sure, yeah.

But I didn't have some. Do you need an electrical engineer?

No, no. Like, you know, like talking about like Engineering. As far as, like, you have front end, you have ui.

No, I'm teasing. But that's what I mean. People go, oh, you need this. It's like electrical, mechanical programming.

If you would have told me that, I would have been like, okay. Like, that's how like, naive I was. I had no idea.

Like, user interface, big one to, you know, for getting people to use it. Compliance.

Yeah, DevOps, all those things. So, like, I mean, really, stage one, what you need is you need a badass DevOps engineer. Because guess what? DevOps builds the infrastructure, the structure that your house sits on. What I didn't know is I didn't have a DevOps guy. Like, so I built this whole entire company, spent millions and millions of dollars, but I built it with a. Like, I was. Built it on sticks, you know, So I think, you know, it would never as stable as it needed to be. Just there's like a lot of learning lessons like this, you know, and then, you know, you didn't document code. Like, you know, try to document code. When you have a biz, like millions of lines of code doing it like, you're doing it like five years later, you know, when, like half of the. Half of the guys are not there anymore. The guy, you know, it's like, oh, my God, like, what's this? I don't know. How does this broken shit? I don't know. So it's like, you know, there's all these things that.

Hey, remember that thing we did, July of 13?

Yeah. We started building on Ruby on Rails. And then, you know, this was. Ruby on Rails was like big, like back like in, you know, 2000, whatever, 4, 13, 14, whatever. That was like the cutting edge, you know, code. And then Tina, within a couple years, that was like, oh, you're on Ruby on Rails. Like, dude, what are you doing? You know, it's like I was like, oh, I don't know. Like, you know, so like, I didn't know anything. And I didn't really know how to manage a team. So, I mean, all of a sudden, coming from me being like the main guy and having an assistant that I just told what to do to having hundreds of. I literally had over 110 engineers working for me, right? And I didn't know about what it took to even build engineering. And it's like, it's just like, it's. It's. You talk about learning experiences of a lifetime. Like, you know, like, I went through like a gauntlet of experiences of all shapes and sizes. Like, there's just so Many lessons that I learned. I think, you know, one of the biggest lessons that I learned is, you know, you have to go slow to go fast. And what I mean by that is I thought pouring gasoline on the fire, like, dude, we got these contracts. Because I was always getting huge contracts. And I was like, oh, my God, you got to do this. You got to do this. You need someone that can break down the visionary, first of all, because, like, engineers don't understand visionaries ever. Because we're like. Because everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah. Like in the meetings, they're like nodding their heads and like, yes, I get.

It, I get it, I get it.

It sound.

Like they're all talking about, dude, what the hell was he talking about?

Like, why do you think there's such a disassociation?

I don't know. I mean, I think you need someone to break you down. I just, you need like. And I don't know what it is. I think there's also visionaries just have. We have a lot of passion. And I think engineers are like, mostly like robots. And so, you know, that's true.

Who said it?

They are so, like, they're a completely different species of mammal than visionaries. Like, I mean, we're like, come from two different planets. It's like, you know, men are from Venus, like, whatever. Mars and Venus, whatever. Like, you know, engineers are from Pluto, you know, like in visionaries are from Earth, you know. So I feel like we're just from like two different.

Two different. So how galaxies.

I was gonna say I was like, Pluto technically isn't even a planet. I don't agree with it. What I learned growing up, that's the truth. You're not changing it on me. It's like water doesn't exist. Now shut up. How did you bridge this gap? Like, in all seriousness, how did you. But please don't stop. This is great, but. Because I know someone's listening going, yeah, I was just facing that problem earlier today. So how did, did you. So I have, I've had the. I have the same problem at times. I'm getting better, but I think the.

Very first, I mean, if you can avoid it, like, if you're at the beginning stages of this, you have to set the table, right? So I would look first at your engineering team. Because if you're take. If you don't know what you're doing and you have an engineer who's just. Maybe they're just like a general front end engineer or whatever, that's not like the right guy. To start building the product with, you really do need that DevOps guy who's.

Going to build, who can see the, at least the bigger picture. Even if it's not 10 years down the road. It's at least, here's the framework and infrastructure.

Just like when you build a house. Like when you build a house, you build a house with a great foundation. DevOps build the foundation, front end build on top of the foundation, right? So if you have the front end building on a foundation, foundation that they're making, which everyone says, oh, what are they? They're full stack. Full stack don't exist, by the way. Like, there isn't a single engineer that I've ever met that's been great at both of them. That's just a lie. So you're either great at front end, you're either great or back end. People that call them full self, full stack, run the hell away from them because they're just full of lies. So, and that's like, that's my personal belief and I've like tested that theory a bazillion times and I've never been wrong, always worked out bad. So full stack people like try, you know, I mean, there are, they do.

There is. I'm gonna have to update our search query to a back end because I had a couple great people over a decade and they all said full stack. And again, I didn't know any difference. But now that you're saying that, I'm like, maybe that's why we're not finding who we're looking for to add to the team.

Yeah, I mean, you like, you really like need to drill down on the expertise. Like, so UI ux, that design flow, that's just, that's a guy or a girl, right? And then you have the front end that's a guy or a girl. You have the DevOps, which is the foundation, and you have your back end, which basically kind of builds the front and the back and kind of build at the same time on top of the DevOps, you know, and then you have, you have to have your document person, which the document person is basically documenting all the code. Most of those engineers, they, no one likes to document their code, by the way. So they all hate it because they're like, oh, we got to move fast. And I'm like, dude, like, what if I fire you tomorrow? Think about that as a CEO, right? You have a guy that's documenting for you for a year, or not documenting, he's just building code. And then you and him, you Don't. There's no, There's a time where you guys stop seeing eye to eye and you're like, dude, I hate this guy's guts. I can't stand him. Like, now you have to let him go. But you can't let him go because there is no documentation and no one else knows what the hell he did. So, like, you know, it becomes a real problem. And also, like, at the end of the day.

And then even if you get someone new, how long would it take to go back through all the lines of code and figure it out?

If you don't have your code documented and, like, you have. Don't have someone behind there cleaning up the. The documentation, what. Anyone that you bring on new to the team will take a month to get integrated. Okay? So think about that. Like, you're paying someone a high wage because engineers aren't cheap no matter which part of the puzzle that you. You get. They're not. They're all expensive. And so if you hire anyone from that matrix, you for a month of time to get integrated. Like, you're hiring people because you need people now, like, get on this. Like, we need a develop product, but it takes a month to even get them acclimated into the matrix.

And that's. That's pretty aggressive, too.

I mean, yeah, that's. That's actually saying, like, that. I mean, realistically, it probably could take up to like, two months, and that's just such a waste of time. Like, that's two months where they could actually be building code. So if you have it documented, then they can come right into the fold. And if they know what the hell they're doing, if they're worth what they're. You're paying them, then they should be able to come in to start working on the project right away. And it wouldn't take them weeks or months, it could take them days. Right. As opposed to, like a long time. So that's a huge.

Where'd you find the person to do the documentation? Are they a specific.

I mean, yeah, and then you also. Also you have to have QA people too. Right. So QA is a whole separate role too. Like just people that are doing the QA testing. Quality assurance. Yeah, and testing all the work that's being done. A lot of that you can do through building modules which essentially can automate a lot of those tests. But, you know, if they're using tests that are out of date, it doesn't necessarily. It doesn't necessarily account for all of the variables which you'll probably face in a normal situation. So like for instance, you know, in my old company we had way tester like these guys are all they're speaking. So you figure like, oh, they're speaking on stage. They know what the fuck they're doing. Most of these people don't know. You know, most of the public is just a lot dumber than you know because we, we're just ignorant. We just don't know what we don't know. So we just assume that these people know what the they're talking about, but really they don't know what they're doing. And they're utilizing outdated systems to do this stuff. And so they were doing this inside of our platform and not accounting for they're utilizing it. And then I got like a real genius up. Walter o' Brien was one of my mentors for two years. I don't know if you know, Walter.

O' Brien is, but name sounds familiar.

If you Google him, he's the fourth smartest man that's ever like been alive. Right? So he's, he's, he's a genius. He was like, he like literally, Literally, he's. He's. It's the highest iq. Fourth highest IQ ever recorded. Wow. So how'd you meet him? Through a mastermind. 100 million dollar mastermind, which was a mastermind put on by Dan Fleischman.

You had to pay $100,000 a year to be a part of. And so super elite group of people. Yeah, it was, I mean, it was a pretty badass group of people. I mean like, I felt like a, a small, small. I mean I usually like have a big presence, but I, you know, it's one of those things where I was like, man, like, it's a lot of power in this room. You know, it's just like a lot of power.

But that's the rooms you want to be and you don't want to be the smartest person in the room.

Yeah, no, no, no, for sure. I'm not disagreeing with you. But that was like one of the ex like instances in my life. I was just like, dude, like just probably some of the most amazing entrepreneurs like you know, that ever been around. But I met him there and you know, we connected. I was like. Because he did this speech and I swear to God he was looking at me the whole time because. And he was talking about.

Defense. Like I was always worried about like growing the business. And offense, like, offense. Like, how do we scale? How do we do this? How do we do this? Right? How do we make more money? And he was just like, talking about protection and defense, but, like, I realized how many holes were in the game. Like, I was just like, oh, my God, we're not accounting for all these things. Like, holy crap. You know, like, one big hack could just take you out. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

If you just. If you build this platform, you spend all this time to, like, you put all this energy into building something, and then one big thing that you can't control but you thought you had control over, it just could just ruin your business overnight, you know? So, like, I realized that and then I was like, man, I got to talk to you. So, like, we brought them on and he ended up mentoring me for two years. And, you know, he actually taught me a lot too, because, you know, he's. He's not only is he genius, but he's like, like an engineering genius. So, like, he's really, like. He does like, the stuff for the Department of Defense. Like, he's doing the black ops stuff. Like, he's.

Yeah, that's cool.

He's kind of a scary dude, actually.

But. But he's. He's a. He's a real one, you know, so. But I learned a lot from him. Not necessarily at the time, but it's a lot of this stuff that's like, if you don't start it the right way, it's kind of like it's really hard to fix, you know? So, like, if you're thinking about, like, building a business and doing it, like, where it can be totally successful and like, where it's not going to be really fucked up to fix it, you know, you really got to do it right from the beginning. And.

Yeah, because most people, I'm thinking of just any business scenario. It's like, how do you know how to do something until you've done it? Unless you have a coach or mentor. And even then when you said, I didn't learn, it's not that I learned in that moment, it's like, oh, I totally relate to that. There was masterminds and stuff I invested in five, 10 years ago or more. And it's like, that's what they meant. You know what I mean? You're at a different place in your life and business every step of the way. And it's like, until you get to. Here.

I've been using the term conceptually. It's like, there's a lot of people who can theorize and conceptually go, oh, yeah, I know all about fintech.

Yeah.

Really?

You're Right.

You know, or book publishing. It's like, sure. It's like you have a cursory idea of it, but until you've gone through it, like when you were talking about the hack on the server and the security, I'm like, yep, yep, yep. And I'm thinking of like real life scenarios as far back as 08.

Yeah, I mean.

Oh, five actually. Some.

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's what you don't hear about that's scary because the only ones that you actually hear about are the massive ones, like. Oh, like 23andMe, I think just recently had a big hack, you know. But like, what do you not know? Like, what you don't know is that there's a bazillion companies that are like 25 million times smaller than them. They're getting the crap out of that, probably have your information. So the likelihood of your information being on the Internet is 100%. You know what I mean? Like, there is some company out there that lost their shorts, that got hacked, that nobody said anything about, and they quietly just went away, you know, or they still exist, but they never said anything, you know. And so that's the reality of the situation, is that you really have a lot of companies that are operating that, you know, why, why did they not say anything? Because they'd rather not go out of business than say something, you know, and so. And it's not right, but it's true and it's just facts. So you know the reality.

How many people.

So if you have people that don't have the vision, don't do the vision piece, and they have a hard time with the design, let alone the coding. And I'm talking any business, you know, accounting, marketing, sales, all these things. How many? Because I've had them on my show. Some people from the FBI, CIA, cybersecurity. Like, how many people do you know at this level?

Yeah, I mean, most of these companies, like, it takes a lot. Like when you have a big organization, I don't think many people realize, especially if it's online and it operates 100 online, like, how much trust you're putting into that company. I think is, is in how, how fragile a lot of them are. You know, how like one like, little like thing could just like take it all away. And I mean, I think when I think about my past experience, you know, with, with profit pay, what I did there, it really was.

The.

It really taught me what I really needed to do to build this product in a way that can scale massively. But also, you know, be become that trusted platform for. For donors and, you know, and, you know, really try to make a difference in the world. I think, you know, really what I want to do is not about the dollars and cents. It's more about, you know, trying to make as many.

The impact you were talking about and, you know, creating that transparency for people.

Yeah, yeah, that's really. It's really what it is. And I think the motivators are different. Back then, I was more motivated by money, whereas, you know, now I'm really just motivated by, you know, trying to make the impact and, you know, trying to build something that can last longer than me, you know.

Well, good for you. I'm glad you are. And it's like I said, I was excited to have you on checking out all your stuff. I'm like, this is awesome, because, you know, I was making a joke about how many cyber security experts. I'm like, I know my numbers for the show, and we. We have a wait list of hundreds of people. And I'm like, I swear to God, if I get another social media marketing guru, like, there's certain industries that they're a dime a dozen. And, you know, it's like, same thing here. Like, in a hundred years from now, this stuff is still going to be around and people can learn from us. I think that's great. So I'm very. I came up with something right when I started the show. People go, how do you choose who to have on? And I put something on Facebook one day just to prove in people. And I go, it's not that you're not qualified. It's just that I don't like you.

And the reality is it's like, I'm looking for people that are doing good in the world and have this. What seems like they're trying to create a ripple effect and have impact because it's like, oh, someone's successful in business. Like, we all are. Great. Now what?

So I'm glad you are, and I'm glad you are having that ripple effect and helping all these other people, because when I was asking you, is this more for the charities or the people? I know a lot of giving people, but I'm also thinking of, like, this whole time I've been. I was just at a couple charity events recently, and I'm like, I should reach out to them.

So, yeah, I mean, we want to empower them to raise more dollars, and we think that and make it easier for them.

You know, there's someone else. I'm thinking of that's starting a non profit ministry. I'm thinking of someone else who has one. And it's, they're going, you know, they reach out to us going, how do we get the message out? Like with a book or podcast video. How do we get the message out to sales and marketing? But the reality is until you've set up a 501C3, you've never done it. Yeah, just like starting a business.

Yeah. They don't technically need to have a 501C3 as long as they have, you know, because they could come and set up a story and then they'd be able to utilize R501C3. And I think, okay, well that's good. Yeah.

But I mean just even the payment processing, to set up the website, to set up this just market, it's like, I think there's a lot of giving people who have great ideas and their hearts in the right place. But you start going, you need this and this and this and this and.

This and well, plus we bring donors to the table. And I think that's, that's the difference is that we bring those donors to the table that are looking for those types of opportunities.

Yeah, they want the connections too.

Yeah, that's.

It's what I've surmised. Last 20 years of business, it's like just make nice with people, like add value. Who are you looking for? Great, here's the person.

Yeah, I mean it's a wide open opportunity that we see that. You know, I think people want to give, they want to help. And really the only limitation is like understanding where that money is going is really the only barrier.

And you're solving that, which is great.

So I have a. Not like we haven't been having a blast this whole time, but we're gonna do the wheel of whatever you want. Yellow or black Whack. All right, black.

Where do you see this going five years from now? What would you, your ultimate, what would your ultimate vision be?

Well, I mean I see that.

Our.

Ultimate vision is to, to help change a billion lives, you know, and I think that what's going to happen, the reality of what's going to happen is platforms like GoFundMe, the 800 pounder gorillas, they are not going to be able to compete with a platform like this. So they'll probably end up trying to acquire us at some point. I think that that's most likely scenario because they want to be the 800 pound gorilla. And quite frankly, you know, I wouldn't mind them being that 800 pound gorilla as long as they had a better vehicle to do it with. So as long as this product has the ability to change the world and let people donate, get their dollar, those dollars donated toward the right place and always understand that money, I feel like people will donate more and they'll do it more often. And whether we're acquired or not, I mean the end goal is to change a billion lives in a positive way.

That's a great call. Yeah, I'm glad you're one of the good ones making a difference. So thank you for that. We're going to thank our sponsor and come back for the imperfect action round. You've heard me say every business needs a book, including yours. And it's true. And that's why I'm launching my new book@eapublishingmethodbook.com so you can learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. But you know what, don't take my word for it. Take it from a few of my authors like Lori, I went from having.

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Hey, their words, not mine. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get your copy and I look forward to hearing your transformation as our next video success story. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.com and we are back with the imperfect action round. Chase, are you ready to take imperfect action?

Let's do it.

All right, I got three rapid fire questions for you. The first one is what is the fastest path to the profits.

For me or just generally?

Yes, for me or Generally in.

Generally.

Generally fastest path to profits is creating value. That's how you get to profit faster. Yeah, number value.

I agree. 100. Number two, what is the biggest problem you see your prospects making and the fastest way for them to fix it?

They're. They're building the same machines, they're competing against each other, but not changing. They're not providing a unique experience, I think. And if you're, if you're changing a business model, you can't change the user experience that we all use today. If you try to change the user experience, you'll fail.

Number three, what's the best way to maximize customer lifetime value?

Just create.

Keep.

So once you actually get people into your ecosystem, create other products and ancillary services that support them to drive additional revenue streams which essentially don't. Which complement your business, are not like separated from your business, but complement. You know, for instance, in our business, like we use, we do the. We have a SaaS fee for, you know, to do different things, but then you can bundle that with payments, which essentially is complementary to the business. Right. But it also adds an additional revenue stream. So services that aren't like completely out of your zone, but add value are the quickest way to provide lifetime value. And the more products and services that these people use, the less and less likely they are to leave.

Very true. Also.

Yeah.

Being a publisher, I gotta ask you about books. What books would you recommend? Expert Authority World.

Well.

I love the book.

By the old Zappos founder. I think it was Tony Shea. Yeah. Tony Shaves Something in Happiness. I just. I read it again recently. Was it.

It's.

Hold on. I have it here on my phone actually.

But it.

What did you like about it?

I mean, I just. Delivering happiness. I just love. I love his story. I mean, you know, the way that he really encapsulates the. The story of the founder, like how they ran out of money, like how, you know, any. Any successful founder like this built something huge. I swear, there was always a point in their story where they almost lost it all. Like, you know, it was backs to the wall. And I think backs to the wall is what creates the genius. You know, it's like, you know, when you run out of options and you have to be super creative, that's really what defines the difference between, I think, a normal entrepreneur and like the people that make it big time is, you know, somehow they figured it out, you know, and that's in those critical moments, like the Jordan basket, you know what I mean? Like you. When the three pointers on the line, you and everything's on the line and you just make that three pointer and everyone's like, yeah, you know, the entrepreneurs, we don't get the credit for it but like, like the Jordans do. But you know, the ones that make it, they all had a three pointed moment like that, you know, and I feel like the way they encapsulate the story of delivery, happiness and like really how they focused on not the business and the profits, but curating this really great experience for the user, right? And that's how they became a massive brand is they really focused all their efforts on the customer success portion of the deliver and made the experience really great for the user. And I think it all comes down to user experience. In the end, no matter what product you have or what service you have, it really comes down to the experience for the user and how that that user is interacting with your platform which is going to make or break you. You know, all things being created equal. There's other Zappos out there, there's other shoe carriers out there. Why does Zappos sell for a billion dollars and Payless is worth crap, right? Well, you know, Zappos created this curated experience which really made customers loyal, right? And creating that loyalty means repurchasing Payless. Guess what? They're a commodity. And I'm just, I don't know, picking on Payless. But I'm just saying like it's in their name, you know, pay less, it's a commodity, right? The only people that go there is like you want to buy like $10 shoes, right? But like if you want to buy something that's great and you want to have this curated experience and you know, all things being created equ, you know, you're going to be going to the places where you, you have this emotional connection to the brand. And he was able to create emotional brand. And that's the difference I think between the biggest businesses in the world and the ones that fail. And you know, I think people are.

Done with the transactional stuff because it's like no one really wants to buy from a corporation or company anymore. They want to know what it's about, what the, like you said, what they're doing this and that. Even though, you know, there's a lot of great companies and corporations out there, it's like, you know, it's not the 1970s going, oh, we get this joy of walking through a mall.

Like yeah, yeah, those days are kind of gone. I'm actually surprised that malls are even still like Thriving, which they are right now. But, you know, I don't think they'll be like that forever. But, you know, I think the days of the Amazon shopping is, you know, they said by 2023, when I say they said like, you know, the market's basically predicted by the 2023 that almost like 80% of all shopping would be in some form of marketplace, which I don't think is there yet, but I think that, you know, in some ways it is like you go buy Facebook. What is Facebook? Facebook's a marketplace, right? You're shopping on there all the time. It's a retailer. It's an individual retailer on there. But where are you buying it from? You're buying it from Facebook, inside of the Facebook marketplace, right? Just like Amazon host a bazillion retailers, right? Those are a lot of those are mom and pop shops. Until Amazon sees that you're making money, then they copy your idea and kick you out, right? That's their model. But, you know, there's other marketplaces out there, like, you know, that really kind of cultivate this whole thing. And what are we doing? I mean, same thing, right? We're a marketplace and we curate all these big box retailers that everyone shops at, essentially. So they're really not buying directly from Walgreens, they're buying from Walgreens in wishes. Right?

But you're giving them the experience. Not just.

I don't know how to describe it. I used to work at this. I can't. Big box store. You know, it wasn't Circuit City, but you could get a good buy if you go there, right?

Yeah. I mean, Bed, Bath and Beyond. You know, the problem with like coupon buying is that you really, you know, it becomes the brand over time, right?

Yeah. And you, you. There's only so far you can go down 100.

Well, I mean, you. When was the last time you ever went into bad Bath and Beyond without that coupon? That 20 coupon? You really don't. And why? Because it always comes in the mail like clockwork, right? So, like, unless you have it, you're like, oh, you know what I do need, Blah, blah, whatever they sell, right? So you're like, I'll make my way down there and you get your 20 off. But. But that becomes the brand over time.

So, like, I've never seen them not advertise something. They were next door. It was an electronics place, but it wasn't Circuit City. It was another one. But it was like there was a Farmer Jack, you know, Bed Bath beyond and the it was a strip mall area. And I mean, this is going back a while, but it was just like, that was a different time and transactional and all these different things. And now it's like you have the same thing as everyone else now. What. What else do I get with it? And online sales for software and just business stuff. Like the whole incentive and bonuses, they work. But now I'm like, yeah, it's one of the strategies we tell our authors, like, if when you're launching the book, have some bonus features, resources, behind the scenes. It's like, there's stuff I go to get. And I'm like.

I don't care if you're on sale or not. What are the bonuses? Like, I'll pay more. But what are you getting with it? It's like, what. What else is included? You're just going to give me what I want.

That's why it's better to just create very, like a unique, valuable experience that's different from the competition but doesn't deviate from the customer's user experience.

Right.

So if you can do that and you can add value in that chain, then you don't have to discount. You don't have to do those things. And people will go in there and use the product. And I think that's really the hardest time, is you just got to be creative and build something new instead of actually copying the recipe that everyone else uses, which really is just a race to zero.

Yeah. I want to make sure we get people checking you out. But I do have to share this one more story. I was thinking about this one day back when I used to go to the grocery store.

I did a live because my first book is Video Marketing for Business Owners. I've been promoting it forever. And I walked out and I'm like, oh, this is hilarious. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, you wouldn't believe this. I just got the. The best deal on the face of ever. I was able to. Are you listening?

Yeah.

I was able to walk in the store. They didn't ask for my report card. They didn't ask for a bank statement. I was able to just go in and just buy whatever I wanted and walk out is the best deal ever. And there was a few people that are like, what coupon did you have? And everyone else was like, that's hilarious. Because it's like a deal to me was, I can walk in and walk out. I don't really care what it was, you know? And to most people, the deal is like, oh, I Got X amount off. It's like, if I don't need to wait in line for 48 minutes. Yeah, that's a deal.

No, it is. I mean, but also selling, you know, that, that comes down to the, you know, being able to sell that, sell that to the consumer, right? So everyone understands it. Because again, like right away the other people were like, what was the, was the discount? Right? It's like, no, the value was this like working out, like, you know, explaining that.

And I kept panning the camera so I'm like, I can't say where I'm at. But then I'd like flash the first three letters of the store. They're like, where is that? What's the deal? And there was a much longer build up and everything. And I was like, if you look in the comments below, there's going to be. And I just made it sound like I have this special link or whatever, like everyone does. And I was just thankful. It took all of six minutes to go in and out. I had all this stuff. I'm like, problem solved. You know, because people can't do that. So I've thoroughly enjoyed this, your stories, everything. Where would you like people to learn more?

Yeah, no, go to Wishes Inc. You know, you can sign up on the wait list there. We will keep you guys informed when we're launching. We're trying to launch as soon as possible. We've really curated a great experience so we're super excited for everyone to come and try it and see for yourself. You can always find me on LinkedIn at Chase Farmer on LinkedIn. And yeah, look forward to hearing from you guys and making some wishes come true.

Excellent. I'll make sure those links are in the show. Notes for eainterviews.com Chase, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for sharing with us.

Awesome. Thank you, man.

All right, Expert Authority World. We have another great episode here today. I'll see you in the next one. Have a great day and God bless. You're already the expert. But have you transformed your expertise into a tangible asset that will generate qualified leads while increasing profit for you 24 7? And if so, how well are you promoting it? With my new book, the Expert Authority Effect Publishing Method, I take you through my process step by step. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com today to learn the seven steps to publish and promote your nonfiction, lead and profit generating business book in eight weeks. Visit eapublishingmethodbook.com to get started now. Once again, that's eapublishingmethodbook.Com thanks for listening to today's episode. I would love to know what you enjoyed most from it. If you haven't done so already. I invite you to connect with me on my new LinkedIn. You can go to it directly@eainterviews.com LinkedIn once again, that's eainterviews.com link. Lastly, check out the full eainterviews.com site for complete show notes, the full interview video experience, links to the resources we mentioned, and more. Have a blessed day and I'll see you on the next one.