27 Units, 7 Years: Defining Success in Vacation Rentals

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Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Boostly podcast and I'd just like to say a big thank you to Hostfully for sponsoring this episode. This is where you can get the tools, the Tactics, the training and most importantly, the confidence so you can go out there and get more bookings. We have a mini series on this podcast where we interview interesting hosts from all over the world. We I'm a firm believer that you can learn something from every single host and every single person out there. And this is a great way to learn as a community to, to hear other people's stories, find out what motivates them, who they serve, how they serve them, their systems, all of that cool stuff and listen along for the next sort of 20, 30 minutes where we can dive in and find out about today's guests video. So sorry, business. So let's dive in. So we've got Gordon Martin. He is the CEO, the traveling CEO of People's Places and Things Incorporated. He's based in the USA and I'm going to dive straight him and let him cover all the details of his business. And I'm excited to find out more about it. So welcome along Gordon. Thank you for joining me.

Great. Thank you, Liam. Yeah, very happy to be here. And a quick correction, we are based in Canada, not in the United States. And so People, Places and Things Incorporated and we're actually based in Newfoundland, Canada. So Newfoundland is the most easterly place in North America and we're only about a five hour flight to England and there's actually direct flights into England this year. So we are a vacation rental experience company and that's a part of what I want to talk about today, how we're defining ourselves and how we are setting ourselves up for the future. And we've been in business now, this is our seventh year in business and we have about 27 properties and growing under management right now.

Nice. Very nice. So for hosts who are listening to this for the first time, what would you like them to remember most from listening to your story today?

Yeah, I think the most important thing is really defining who you are and what is it that you're trying to accomplish. I've been listening a lot about, you know, defining the ideal client, right. The ideal guest. And, and I always struggled with that and I still struggle that with, you know, managing a lot of properties from two people to 10 people that they host. You don't always know how to define that ideal guest, but it's also trying to define your ideal client and defining how you know who you are for the marketplace. And I think this, this winter I've really gone through a kind of a light bulb moment in that, in really making, figuring out exactly who we are and how we want to Position ourselves in the marketplace. And I think that's, that's really, I think one of the key things that I wanted to focus on. I think the other thing is really just keeping to your vision of what you're up to and that will help you get through the challenging parts.

Excellent. I want to dive into that. You mentioned just in the introduction there, you mentioned there's 27 units. So what kind of model do you use and is it 27 sort of management units? Are they owned, are they arbitrage? How does that kind of work?

Yeah, so we own one property. We started with one property which was, is an owned property and we still have that property. All the other properties are. We use the management model. So we are managing these properties for owners. They are all shapes and sizes of properties and we are in a lot of different communities around our province. So we over the last 37 years, over the last seven years, we've been to 30 different communities. And right now I believe we're in 15 different communities and they are, I guess the furthest range away from each other by driving is about a, a five hour drive away from each other, you know, from the furthest property away. Yes. So that's really what our model is at this point.

Awesome. And you mentioned before that you kind of looking at who you serve and how you best serve them. Can you deep dive into that? Take me through that kind of journey of discovery of who you serve and where you are now with it.

Yeah, well, the first thing I'll say is back in, back in 2019 when I named the company People, places and things, what I said we were at that time was a vacation rentals and experiences and tourism experiences. And of course then came 2020 and there was no such thing as experiences. And we really got kind of focused or trapped. I don't know exactly the best language for that to, to really be focusing on the property management side of the business. So we really kind of lost focus away from the experiences side of the business. What I've noticed in the last. But we've always, I've always wanted it to be more than that. I've always wanted it to be more than just a property management company. And I don't actually see myself as that anymore. We say that we are a vacation rental experience company and that's really just the beginning of that. But for me, right away what I'm saying is vacation rental instead of short term rental. And I know it's the same, but it's, it's, it is, I am Trying to focus, trying to get my voice out about that specific thing, vacation rental. Even though we do have properties that would be regarded more as short term rental. But I'm really trying to speak to that market, the vacation rental market. Yeah, so I think that's the, that's the first thing I wanted to say and maybe I can get some more clarity with your next question or maybe speak a little bit more about that.

Deep dive. Deep dive into it. Happy to.

Okay. Yeah. So we, we started what I, I got inspired by the Fogo Island Inn in Newfoundland is a luxury in a very small place in this, in, in the world. Fogo island according to the, the. The Flat Earth Society is one of the four corners of the world and they have a, an inn that is actually owned by a cooperative. The, the cooperative to, to re. The foundation to rebuild the rural community owns this inn which is 30 room, very high end, you know, celebrities from around the world kind of people come to come there. The intention though is to refocus and rebuild the community to bring, you know, opportunity into rural communities. And we've already always been inspired by that. We've been inspired by working locally, by benefiting local communities. And I think it's more than. I'm really inspired by the concept of slow travel of bringing someone to a place like Fairyland. Fairyland is my last booking, just went into a place called Fairyland. Fairyland is a community founded in 1621. It was called the Colony of Avalon. It was the first one of the. Was the first English colony in North America. And you know, people could come there for a day or they could drive through it in 10 minutes or you really could come for a week or two weeks and really get a deep dive in the community and, and talk to locals and really get engaged in local experiences. And that's what we're intending on doing. That's what our intention is to have people have our places be like an anchor. So the places are an anchor to allow people to meet local people, have local experiences and really get a feel for a place. So that is our, that's where the name people place and things comes from. And that's really what my focus is moving forward.

You know, I think it's a really good point because obviously since, since COVID I know the dreaded C words, there's been a big focus. When you look at some of the big OTAs, they're actually now pushing experiences a lot more. And it is about the experience. When we talk about places to stay especially I like the distinction you've made between a short term rental and actually a vacation rental. Hey, this is where you come and have a vacation. This is where you come and have an experience. This isn't just somewhere you're stopping or an overnight, you know, on the way to somewhere or you're not just stopping for work and that sort of thing. Although I'm sure like all of us, you may get those days that ultimately you're focusing on the experience that people have. And the other thing that came to mind there was the, the fact that history in general is built on stories, right? And we many years ago, before the Internet, you know, even before books were regularly, you know, everyone could read and write stories was the way that we learned. And actually having that story within the community that you've just mentioned and having a community in general, these are the stories that we can share with our guests where they can come and have that experience of what our local norms are, our social norms are, the culture, the stories, the history, all of that stuff. They can come and have that experience. So I really like that. And that's what I picked up on. I think when I first saw the name of the company, I was like, oh, that's a cool name for a company because that is what it is is about. And I know we're going to get onto the kind of like the vision and that side of things for the future, but I really do like that. That's cool. So before we get on to that kind of future stuff, when did you start this business and what was your driver for it?

So the business got started on August 25, 2017 and I was two years post divorce. I was two years kind of out of my main career that I had had for 20 odd years. And I had a cabin in the woods on a pond and I needed some extra money and you know, it was something I was trying to hold on to a place that had been in my life for 30 years and, and I had been, and I had stayed at an Airbnb, I was a pharmaceutical sales rep for 23 years. And I've been traveling all over my province number one and all over the world and you know, really in a lot of different kind of situations. So I've been in a lot of different kind of interesting places and I'd stayed a lot of really interesting, you know, places to stay, from the really beautiful ones to the very, to the very crappy ones. And I, you know, long had given up. I'd even drive through some towns where I live because I Didn't like the hotels that were in the town. I'd look for the kind of unique places. Anyway, 2017, I went on a flyer and really put my cabin on Airbnb. Two hours later I got a booking for the next day. And you know, this place had been a bachelor pad for a couple years. And so it, you know, was the first 12 hours was spent cleaning the place and then it just started getting cooked. It was, what was interesting to me was at that time in late August 2017, that would be like the end of the season. Like we would not go to the cabin after that as a family with, you know, young kids, we would have, you know, the kids in school and we, we typically won't go to the cabin after the end of the August, you know, maybe until the spring. But it just started getting booked, it was getting booked on a regular basis and I didn't, wasn't making any money. I really didn't know how to make money at that time. And then in mid September, I got a booking from Australia for the following summer for 10 days. And it just like, I just was just like that light bulb moment. It's like whack. Oh, oh. This is possibly, you know, something more than I think it is. And I was looking for, I had been two years out of a career and kind of not really had my grasp yet. And I thought, well, maybe here's an opportunity for me to start working with other people and to manage other people's properties. And really that's how it began. And I was fortunate to get a, A, a contract to work with a small hotelier in downtown St. John's you know, shortly afterwards. And I was with them for a couple of years helping him to upgrade his online experience. And that was, really helped me in the beginning.

I mean the, the nice thing is about that is the kind of hospitality gives so many people chances, right? And as you say, it's a people based business. People like to be around people. So by creating something and getting people to come along, that feels good. The money is good as well. Obviously you can then make money from doing this and ultimately it gives you kind of a calling, doesn't it? So I really like that, I really like that aspect. So at the moment, what would you say? I'm going to do a two part question. So obviously 2017, what has been the biggest kind of wow moment in, in a few sentences for that and then what's been the biggest challenge since 2017?

I think that, you know, to be honest with you, the biggest wow. Moment actually became. Came during the first three weeks of the pandemic. And so, you know, after, you know, the first week or so, when we realized that all of my reservations for that year were going to be gone very shortly, and we lost about 80% of them, I went to my cabin to refocus. You know, after, you know, doing like everybody did in this business, cry for two weeks, I went and I refocused and I came back and it was like, no one is going to save you. Like, was just this feeling like what the government is offering for you to sit in your apartment for two months or, you know, however long is not going to save you. No one's going to save you. No one's going to be, you know, just kind of picking you up. And if you're going to get anywhere, you got to do it on your own. You know, you really got to get out there. And for me, that really was this moment of recognizing the importance of my voice, the importance of my focus and my effort in not only selling my business to other people, the services that we provide people, but also in becoming, like, an advocate within the community and a lot of other things. So, know, that was, I think, my biggest wow moment, the biggest challenge for me, I think, when it came last year at the. At the tail end of last year, I signed a client who has a, you know, and he's still a client, so it's, you know, a bit of a challenge here talking about this, but, you know, he has very high expectations for his house, and I didn't believe where the number he wanted we could get, you know, and so we started, you know, kind of where I wanted to be, and we were doing okay with bookings. And then he really pressed on the number that he wanted, which was twice as much as I wanted for people to pay. And I knew, like, at that moment I was in trouble because we weren't going to get any bookings, and we did. We hardly got any. And then we lost a number of clients. And I think at the end of the day every season, you know, you lose clients for a variety of reasons. Whether they decide to do it themselves, we have a. Or they decide to take that product up, property off the market for. Or they sell the house or whatever. People are always making a decision. So at the end of last year, we lost a few people, some nice properties, and I had invested a lot in this big. This. This new client, and I just knew it wasn't going anywhere, and I kind of hit a wall. You know, it was a lot of frustration. I really ramped up to, to be able to have this and you know, with a lot of expenses and you know, the, the, the cliff came a little bit shorter, a little bit faster that, that fall. And I, you know, I went through a pretty low period for a couple of months last fall and I really thought I was going to pack it up and just like give it up, you know. So that's really been the biggest challenge. Fortunately I found my way through it. But that was, you know, it's, it's like six years into the business. It's a part of that, right? It's a part of the growth and recognizing, realizing some of your, maybe some of the challenges that you have personally as well. So I would say that this episode.

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Definitely. And what's interesting about that is when you talked about COVID I thought that was going to be the challenge, but actually that's the wow moment. Because what you mentioned, that certainly resonated with me is that we've got to realize as business owners, and that's what we are if we. We operate in hospitality, is that nobody else is gonna. Gonna save us. You've got to do this for yourself, you know, so whether that is the accounts, the marketing, the guest communications, you know, that all of that stuff, the new business, you know, all of that starts off especially when you get started for yourself, but even when you hand it out to people and that, that ultimately you're still looking after the. The thing is, is ultimately odd or our business and nobody's come to save. So I, I really like that quote. The end of something which I think we should all bear in mind at any, any given time, is that we need to be putting that effort in. And then what was interesting about your answer is the, the fact that actually the new client, which you'd think is, is a win, is actually the challenge. And that is, this is exactly how business is sometimes, isn't it? Is sometimes what we think is going to be the good is actually the challenge, and what we think is going to be the bad is actually the realization and the good. So I really like that sort of polarized answer there, Gordon. Thank you so much for that. So let's talk about the kind of the things that you've used in your business. What has helped you to really run the business in terms of tech, apps, systems, or people? What kind of. Is what tips would you have for the people listening to this that's helped you along your journey?

Yeah, I think the most important thing to say, you know, another wow moment came in 2000, I don't know, 19 or something, when I realized a guest was showing up at a property. And I didn't. I hadn't messaged them about what the code was to get in. Like they were at the door, you know, and. And I realized in that moment, like, I need systems. You know, I need. And I only had a couple of houses under management at the time. And so what I know now is that the only way this works is with good systems, a good system and great people, a good team. You know, my name is the host on Airbnb still. I haven't switched it over to a company yet. But it's not just Gordon, it's a whole team of people that really are managing properties. And for me, right now, we are actually making the transition from one PMS provider, which we've been with for quite a while, to hostfully. So we are right now in the, I know that you said Hostfully is sponsoring the podcast and we're in the final stages of switching our PMS from where we were to Hostfully. And a big part of that for me was about WordPress websites. My previous provider. It really was a block. We couldn't easily have a book now button. It was just not going to work out. And so we finally had to pull a plug on that provider because of that. And it was a step up for me. You know, Hostly was a, it's a kind of what I would say a kind of a mid market product. You know, it's not, not one of the more expensive ones. It's, it's a mid market, it has lots of partnerships. It really, it really does a good job in, in, in a variety of things. And we don't know, we haven't pressed live yet. So there's a bit of tension right now with, with what's going on. But you know, I'm pretty sure it's all going to work out. So we, right now our tech stack includes a PMS obviously because we want to be able to provide as much. I want the guests to be able to book the way they want to book, not the way I want them to book. So if the house has the right insurance, and that's one of the most critical things that I really focus on for my owners is having the right insurance. If they have the right insurance, I want to be available on Airbnb, VRBO, booking.com, you know, maybe some of the new sites and, and direct bookings. Of course, direct bookings are critically important and certainly something that I've learned a lot through my relationship with Boostly over the last number of years about driving direct bookings. And so we need a PMS to do, to do that. And you know, it's incredibly important for automated messages. It's a really, you know, communication is, is so critical in this business and you know, really being able to set your business up with the right triggers for communication are important. We have a lot of, of our own voice in there, but a lot, a lot of the, the guest satisfaction comes from really great communication that it's automated and even just our check in message on the day after check in. How many guests are so happy with that check in message? But it's an automated message but it allows us to, it allows us to do a systems check as to is everything going okay? Is there something that we need to take care of? We are with obviously dynamic pricing. You know, we use Price Labs. In our, in our business, we use touchstay guidebooks. Right now it does not make any sense to me to have a manual guidebook without something being, being digital. And I'm trying to think what else. We were using Breezeway, we stopped using that last year and, and Hostfully has a relationship with Cherno. So I'm really excited about that and I think that's mostly it for right now. But you know, we're constantly looking, we're, we're upgrading our website right now and you know, we're really doubling down on social media as well. You know, there's a lot, there's a lot to this game now.

There definitely is. You've got to become your own almost marketing company. You know, doing this one thing I just wanted to pick up on. I mean I've, I don't know if people know I use Hostfully as my pms. And it's interesting because we've got similar sized companies for the short term rental for outside of Boostly, what, what we've got. And I think they are very good. Exactly what you said is they've got everything you need to set yourself up for success, especially at this level. And one thing that I do find interesting is I see so many hosts start off with certain software and as you get larger you need different software for different reasons. Not everybody listening to this will be managing, not everybody listening to this will look after like you say, 27 units. But when you run into these problems, you do need a software which does it. So that's, that's awesome to hear. And then the other thing you mentioned in terms of dynamic pricing, Breezeway, you know, these are all tools where if you're listening to this for the first time, you don't know what these are, go and check them out, you know, go and see what the demo is, go and ask about them in forums. You can do it in the hospitality community, which is the free Facebook group from Boostly and you can actually get a lot of videos. And for anybody who's interested in a video comparing Turno and Breezeway, feel free to ask about those in the forum and I will happily share a video because I have, I've compared the two. So Gordon, I will share that with you afterwards and I'll leave it as a cliffhanger for, for people listening to this to come and join the community and, and I'll happily share that as it was an interesting, interesting comparison and yeah, I won't give away too much on that. So what, what does the, there's there's two questions which I'd like to ask you before we, before we bring it to a close. So is there any resources that's helped you on your journey that you'd say, do you know what that helped me? And I think somebody listening to this, another host, somebody else as a manager that could help them too. So any books, podcasts, movies, people, anything like that?

Yeah, well, certainly, certainly. I mean, you know, Mark Simpson has been a. And this whole community has been extremely important to me. It's been one of the, I guess one of the, the communities that I stay focused on and stay committed to. One of the people that have come out of that, that community that, oh, I've just recently signed up for his course is Paul Anderson, the social media hotelier.

I'm glad.

Yeah, Paul is wonderful and he's very focused on helping us improve our experience, our efforts online and certainly Instagram. I'm an older guy, so Facebook was kind of my wheelhouse and Instagram was something I really had took me a while to get my teeth into. And I recognize now how important it is and I, and I need, I continue to need to improve. So Paul Anderson and certainly this community. Dustin Baker is a host, a marketing guy out of Canada on YouTube. Dustin Baker, Airbnb. He really is a phenomenal marketing kind of talent for. And I've, you know, done his, you know, work with him over the last year.

He's been certainly he's been on this too. I've. I know Dustin well. He's. He's definitely worth go and check out. His YouTube is fantastic, isn't it? I know.

Yeah. His YouTube is phenomenal. And he's just a very, as a very good marketing eye. I'm really not a marketing guy. I'm more of a sales guy, you know, so the marketing stuff is more of a challenge for me. And so I've really leaned into some of these resources like Paul and Dustin and I followed for a long time Eric Muller and Jasper Rivers and certainly excited about their journey with Free Wild right now. So I stay close to those guys as well and to what they're up to. There's so many different resources out here in this community, you know, in this marketplace, you know, and I think I'm also right now leaning more into my own communities, you know, joining the destination management organization. One of them is called Legendary Coasts of Eastern Newfoundland. It's the destination management organization. So recognizing that we are an important aspect in our own communities and joining, you know, advocacy with our local host Groups. The Airbnb Hosts of Newfoundland is one of the groups that I'm in and working with local hosts on local issues is an important aspect as well. So those are some of the people and some of the things that I've done over the last little while.

I like that. I like the resources in general and it's inspiring when you're talking about, you know, going out there and helping to bring people to the community because that's ultimately the success of all of our businesses is the more that we can market not only our own businesses, but the what goes on around our businesses, the history, the community, all of that stuff, the more likely is people will come to us. And this is something which, especially as direct bookings. I was talking to Annie Sloan from the host co and we're talking about experiences and that's just so important to talk about the stuff that only you as, as locals will know. The stories, you know, the, the kind of customs, the, the cool things to go and check out. And this is where it really. On your own direct booking websites, you can really market these things much better than just the standard, you know, like if you go on booking.com or VRBO, that's the same, the same template on everything. Whereas you can make it, make it fun on your own website, can't you? So what does the future hold then, Gordon? Talk us through the future.

Yeah, so I've been. So I had a very terrible domain name for my business and you know, it's PPTRocks CA and you know, every time I had to spell that out, almost every time, you know, people, places and things where I would say, you know, I have to spell it out knowing that that was a challenge. I had a guy I was working with last year who said, gordon, your name is fine and all. We're going to have to spend thousands of dollars on SEO to make it, you know, pop in Google rule. But do you know that the Name Newfoundland vacation rentals.com is available as a website name? So we bought that domain name. So we are rebranding our company to be Newfoundland Vacation Rentals and which is a vacation rental experience company. You know, a few years ago we had to park the experiences side with the. Another person who's likely been on this podcast is Maddie Rifkin, you know, with Mount Rent. Mount. I got, you know, inspired by what she is up to and really speaks to what we are also doing. So I'm in, certainly engaged with those, you know, really elevating our guest experience, our guest experiences by having those Elevated experiences. Experiences. And we have a lot of. And so right now we are focused in on one community where we will have five vacation rental properties this summer. It's the community of Kitty Bitty. Q U I D I V I D I Kitty Bitty Village is a very small little neighborhood within St. John's Newfoundland. It takes you literally three minutes to drive through it. But it's an old fishing village and we have a very high end luxury property which I mentioned to you earlier about today. We have an old 200 year old church in that community and we have three smaller properties. One which has a outdoor barrel sauna as well. And it's a place where there's a brewery and there's fishing tours and there's foraging and there's hiking and there's mountain biking and there's all kinds of things around this community. And we are going to use this community as kind of our launching space for the next phase of our business. And I'm really excited by that. We're working with a marketing specialist. We're looking to tap into some resources that the government provides for developing this type of thing in our business. And we're, you know, we're looking to develop not only maybe our own experience, but really to tap into some really strong local partners because I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. We just need to be have our eyes to the ground or ears to the ground to, to really be able to work with locals who, who are doing the right thing, you know, who are already doing what you want to offer. Last year we had two, you know, a top chef and his sommelier into one of those properties to do a dining experience for our guests. We did a foraging tour just you know, minutes from the property. All these things are possible with working with the right kind of people. And that's what we're up to right now. That's really the future. I want to, you know, I realize that we're not cleaning company. I'm not going to be bidding for cleaning jobs. I'm not a property management company. I do these things. We are cleaners, we are property managers. But we really want to focus in on our guest, our vacationer, the vacation rental experience and see where that brings us. See where that brings us over the next couple of years.

Yeah, I'm excited for you. And ultimately the experiences is, is where things are going. So I think it's a bright future and I look forward to seeing you succeed on the journey and have all those guests. You know, the foraging's cool and all of these things are very cool. And if you're listening to this thinking, do you know what, perhaps there's things I could do. I could reach out to my community. Then, then do it because it's so important. That is how we're going to stand out from our competition, from our neighbors and, and get our unfair share of not only bookings, but direct bookings of course as well. So thank you so much for sharing your story with us, Gordon. And thank you too for listening to this on the Boostly podcast. I've certainly picked up some tips and I feel inspired to really look at the experiences within what I offer. And I hope you do too. This leaves us with one last question to ask you, Gordon. If you could go back and give yourself one bit of advice, what would it be to, to draw us to a close?

Oh, that's a great question. I think the, the one bit of advice that I would give myself is really to, to be, you know, focusing on the vision. You know, really be focusing and not giving up on that and not kind of doubting your the vision. You know, letting the vision, you know, letting the vision speak, you know, rat because I think we, I know for myself I'm my own worst enemy. I get in my own way and if I'm, you know, keep that vision in front of me and keep allowing that to speak and taking me where I'm going to be uncomfortable and going to. That's the one bit of advice I would continue to give myself, you know, to keep focusing on that vision. And that vision for us is right now it's come down to the word fast. We say that we provide freedom through action and service together or as a team. And that is something that we really focus on to continue to move our business forward. So I would think that's the key thing is don't lose track of. Of what you're actually doing this all for.

Okay Gordon, so how can we get in touch? How can we find out more about the company?

We are on Instagram at Newfoundland Vacation Rentals and that's and you know Newfoundland as a word. Newfoundland Vacation Rentals. That's our main Instagram account. From there we have a direct me link which all of our links on on email I'm at Gordon G O R D O n@ppTrocks CA that's people places and things rocksrocks CA and really that was. That's and we have Newfoundland vacationrentals.com is our new guest facing site which is right now in a revision kind of stage, but it's a great place just to come in and see kind of, you know, what we're, what we're up to right now, even in the rebuilding of it, 100%.

Well, that's a nice way to bring us to a close. And if you want to carry on this conversation, if you listen to this thinking, you know what, I want to get involved in these sort of conversations, come and join us in the hospitality community, and we look forward to seeing you there. So that's it for this episode from behind the Host on the Boostly podcast. Thank you very much for listening. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.