A PMS With a Different Spin: The Full Package

So welcome to another episode of the behind the Host podcast. This is the miniseries on the Boostly podcast with me, Liam Carolan. And today we are diving into the business of Clark Anderson Properties, based in the east coast of Scotland. And today we're joined by the founder and CEO Simon Anderson, and also Sandy Donaldson, the digital marketing executive. And we're going to be talking about their business, we're going to be talking about some of the things they've done to succeed in their business, which you may be able to pick up, you know, sort of success stories and things that you can utilize to put into your hospitality business. So thank you for joining me. Simon and Sandy, welcome along.

Yeah, thanks for having us.

So, first question and, you know, the best way to get started is Simon is the CEO and founder. If you just like to introduce the business and you know, sort of where you're based and, and what sort of thing that you, that you cater for, what sort of hospitality business you are.

Yeah, of course. So, Simon Anderson. I'm the Anderson of Clark Anderson. My business partner, Stuart Clark is the other half. We are a holding management company. We started off with a few properties of our own and then slowly migrated into the management side of things. Based out in Dundee. Here personally is where the head office is and we cover all of Scotland at the moment. We're trying to grow, particularly in areas such as Aberdeen, Glasgow, Edinburgh. Bit of a whirlwind last few years. It's been good fun and the team has grown since then and we're fortunate enough to have Sandy on the team as well and she can tell you a bit more about what she does.

So, Sandy. Yeah, thank you, Simon. Sandy, if you wanted to introduce yourself and what you do for Clark Anderson.

Yeah, so I started at Clark Anderson in November last year and obviously Simon says they have experienced significant growth in a short period of time, especially over Covid. So I think the main aim now is obviously you've got your OTAs that we are quite successful on at the moment, but thankfully we discovered Bruce Lee and now that I'm working towards just a kind of focus on direct bookings. So that's my main role in the. The business moving forward anyway.

That's cool.

So let's talk more about the. How many properties you're on at the moment, Simon, that you look after and manage.

Well, we're currently sitting at 80 and I believe we're closing this month at 85. Wow. Yeah, Stuart and the PM's property managers, they look after that side of things. But yesterday Stuart was Saying he's got another five lined up this week which is fantastic. You know the team have got a lot to do with that. Everybody gets involved, everybody is contributing in some way. But yeah, 85, it's kind of, it's hard to believe actually we came in last year with 12 properties then we know where the time's gone, kind of blinked and we're talking about 85 and 100 that's happened.

That's an incredible amount of growth. And what sort of team do you need in place to cope with that level of growth? Talk me through who's in your team?

Yeah, I mean I think candidly Stuart and I are always learning as we go. We both gave up full time employment to make this work for ourselves and now we're trying to make it work for the team. So in an ideal world you want to have some sort of operations assistant or operations manager who can help with the workload on your guest columns and your guest bookings. I mean they're using us as the example last month we cared for, I think it was 410 reservations so that every single person you've got automations in place. But I would say about 95% of those guests are going to send the message that require a reply. They're going to ask questions, they're going to need help, they're going to need checking instructions, they're going to need their guides. So having someone in operations to help with that is massive. Having a fantastic housekeeping team, whether that is a supplier or third party that you're using or someone internally, we use both. You want to be sure that they are on the ground, they are the people that are really making those properties shine. As soon as a guest walks in it's whatever the housekeeper left that makes the first impression. So having a great housekeeping team there, if you are using third parties, communication is key for sure. And then being able to talk to the guests when they're in or when you leave to try and get them to come back again or try to get them to book direct if they came via an ota. So we need someone like Sandy which isn't easy to find but when you do you want to hold on to them for sure. Sandy does a great job and yeah laundry, make sure you've got great laundry. You have a laundry team. So we have quite a mix in here. We've quite a lot of different moving parts. Everyone does chip in some way or another for every single reservation and again 400 plus area to deal with but you will Feel the pressure as you grow. Like we were saying before the call, you feel like you're always having to analyze the operation. Where are the stress points? You have to accept that it does come with the industry. But what can we do to make it smoother, to make it better, to consistently improve, to make sure we're not lacking that guest experience, to make sure the owners are receiving what they're looking for and to make sure, of course, the company continues to good always.

There's, there's a couple of points I wanted to dive into there. You mentioned your, your business partner and how important is it to have defined different roles because there'll be a lot of people listening who, you know, want to have a business partner or thinking about starting up a hospitality business with a, a business partner. What advice would you have for them?

Yeah, I mean Stuart and I met and started the company in quite an unorthodox way. You know, won't give the full story, but the bullet points are that we met through a networking group and we went for a coffee to catch up. That first time kind of meeting each other tends to be the usual, you know, family, friends, what do you, what are you into? We golf, we read, blah blah, blah. And I actually can't quite remember how it came up, but we both discovered that we liked the idea of doing something improperly. We were kind of speaking more about longer term in life. We might like the idea of flipping or developing or something like this. So after a couple of coffees we landed on why don't we try something? We didn't have a whole lot of money to put into a flip, which means the return wouldn't have been fantastic. So we didn't really like the idea of that. Buy to lets wasn't something we were too keen on. And then my background was hospitality, his background was corporate insurance. And we saw a way to put them together. So we actually just kind of shook hands. We still to this day don't have an agreement in place, but we're fairly committed now. So I'm pretty sure he won't leave me hanging and I certainly won't do it to him in terms of the question. So Stuart and I, right at the start we just had an agreement that defining our roles were key. Yes, we're both 30, 50, we're both co owners with both directors. We have interchangeable titles. You know, I have CEO, he's managing director. It doesn't mean that I'm hiring him or vice versa, they're the same. But we always said, you look after the sales, I'll look after the operation. We would make decisions together, but ultimately when you define it into one of those, we have the final say and if it goes wrong, there's no blame culture between us. It is what it is, we'll learn, we'll move on. And we've always stuck to that. So even earlier in this week, Stuart went out to see two properties from the same owner. He came back, he wasn't overly keen with them. There was a couple of things he was nervous about that would impact the guest experience. At that point you might be thinking, well, hang on, it's another two properties. It's revenue, it's this, it's that. But ultimately it's not the right decision for the company. And he decided we wouldn't be taking the employer. I haven't thought about it since. That was his decision he believed is best for the company and we move on. Likewise, if I come to him and I say, I think we need a digital marketing executive, I think we need two operations assistant, his head might be thinking, okay, sales, what's coming in? Do we have money for that? Can we make it work? Whereas I'm saying needs to happen, otherwise we're not going to grow. He allows the decision to move forward and it worked, which is great. If I hadn't, there would have been any blame culture. So I would definitely advise that you just have those open candid chats, get everything on the table, don't leave the table thinking he or she said this, but did they actually mean that? And make sure you're clear with your message. And I'm confident like Stuart and I, it'll work and you'll be able to grow together and if there's any failures, you'll both learn from them and just go on with it.

I love that and I think I've definitely learned from that and I think people listening will learn from that as well. Just to have that clearly defined roles and to communicate well and respect each other. That sounds amazing.

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So one of the things I wanted to ask about was Clark Anderson Properties is a full management service. And there's something that makes you guys different compared to most, which most just take care of the bookings, whereas you guys take care of the full package. Is that right?

Yeah. So we always wanted to be that turnkey, that full management service. I mean, looking back now, you know, you hear about one of the major competitors in the UK and the thousands and thousands of properties they have and they don't do anything with cleaning or laundry, and you just think, wow, only we could go back and look at that model. However, even though it adds a lot, a lot of pressure and there's a lot of moving parts and there's a lot more things happening, we are very proud that we have this real management service. In an ideal world, an owner can come to us, we can go through the onboarding process together. They create this property. However, they see how they vision it and they pass it on to us and then we take the baby and we move on. So we will market, advertise, revenue management, guest calls, check ins and outs, laundry, cleaning, facilitate it all. You know that 2am call because someone's lost the keys or the front door is different to theirs and they went out to the car for a second and it closed and locked and the keys are inside. We'll deal with everything and hopefully at the end of the month, we just collate it all, we send it across to you, we'll let you see how the month went and we grow together. That's the idea of cloud medicine. We want to offer the fuel management service, or the beat up service was the term that we use for a while and just not have people too worried about it or have to be, oh, are they doing this? Are they doing that? On the other side of that, though, wouldn't want people to feel like they can't be involved. If an owner likes the idea of being able to dip in and have a look. So the channel manager that we use has a portal and we can create this for our owners and they can go in and it's again, because the channel manager is connected to everything. So the calendar they're seeing is all bookings, not just Airbnb. You're not just booking. So they can see these, they can get an overview of how that revenue is looking for the month. It allows them to see if they want to book an owner stay or they want to let their friends and family stay and they can pick up the phone at any point and just ask how things are going or someone would like to head down the property themselves. Maybe they want to make some changes, put in some locations or something like this on their own accord. So it's nice to know that owners can get involved and they do get involved, but at the same time it's proactive. It's only if they want to. They know that clarkhands are taking care.

Of everything that's really cool. So people can literally come to you and they can even have that complete hands off not having to worry about, you know, how they're going to do the cleans and the laundry and the linen, that side of things, which is really cool because like you say, many companies out there just take care of sending guests to the homeowner and then it's up to the owner to figure out the cleaning side of things. So that's a cool, unique sort of selling point.

So I'd like to come on the back is Bill. Sorry. I do think it is quite nice when an owner wants to get slightly more involved because it shows that they care. And then I think one of the best parts for us is giving them the news that, you know, you've just had an amazing review and it's nice for us to hear, but obviously it's for me to pass it on to the landlord.

Yeah, so important. They love seeing the reviews as well. So, Sandy, I'd like to come across here and speak about the marketing of Clark Anderson. First of all, you know, we've got to know each other over the last few months from talking about the website, haven't we? And, you know, comes across as, you know, you're very personable and you're great at speaking about the business and that side of things. How excited were you when you started working for Clark Anderson about marketing? You know, sort of the hospitality company?

Really excited, actually. I've worked marketing for about five, six years, but it was a new industry for me. So I've learned a lot in the past few months, but I really enjoy it and I think there's a. There's a good energy in this kind of industry and especially after coming out of what was a difficult time for maybe tourism overall. And because they've obviously experience that growth is a fun place to work. And when Simon was explaining there about the relationship they have, the two partners, the two of them, I mean, they love each other, I can tell, but they create a really good atmosphere to work in and it is quite an innovative company and it's fun. And I think that's one of the most important things, that you don't forget to have a laugh along the way. So, yeah, I really enjoy it.

Awesome. And when it comes down to some of the things which make Clark Anderson different, I know on the website, one of the things that is promoted is the concierge sort of services and the sort of digital guides and that side of things talk me through how they work. So if I'm a guest looking to book, how does that work with Mark Anderson?

Yeah, so it's all incorporated into our automatic responses. So 24 hours before they check in, they'll get a link to our digital Air guide. So I actually think it's a. It's a brilliant tool that we. So we have one for each property, and then that allows you to have all of your troubleshooting, you know, wi fi, heating, whatever, your checking instructions. But then you can also include the local area recommendations, food, drink, places to go, people, generally anything around that area. So, yeah, brilliant tool. And. And although I'm bigging up air guiding, I would never want to step away from that as a company. I know the word digital is in my job title. I do still think that it is. You know, there's no harm in also having point of sale in the actual property itself, and especially when it's Airbnb and, you know, you're so strict on, you know, you can't openly speak. It's sometimes quite nice to just leave, you know, like even a little card or something in the property to say, follow us on social media or here's our general go online and look at our air guide. And it's almost just kind of reminding them to move, to draw, to go from what's in front of them to, you know, we've got so much information that we can also give you, and it's just a click away.

That's one thing which really comes across on the. On the Clark Anderson website is, is the amount of information you guys give about the local area. I mean, even on the team page, you're talking about places that guests can. Can visit. You're talking about nearby sections and things that they can really do to enjoy themselves and really have a great experience, which is really nice to see. How else.

Yeah. To be honest, though, I think we actually took some of that inspiration from your website yourself, Liam.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for the plug there. I'll. I'll give you the five pounds later. When it comes down to other ways to Promote. How do you currently promote Clark Anderson?

What.

What are some of the things that you do to. To get eyes on. On your business?

Well, we've got quite a big focus on social media, as does everyone. That is our main. So we are on Facebook and Instagram and it's really nice to. It's almost. You're creating a bit of a community online so it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, everyone you want to engage with doesn't have to be a guest. It is quite nice and it's one of the things I quite like about Bushley because it is a kind of community that they're what you guys are creating and it's nice to be a part of. But then we also do, you know, a monthly newsletter, so every time someone books with Clark Anderson, if we have access to their email address, we can speak to them that way as well. So you can sign up to that separately on our website too. But I would say social is probably one of the biggest focuses for us at the moment.

That's cool. And you can definitely see you guys are active on social media and they say success leaves clues. And you just mentioned getting real email addresses from your guests. You know, being on social media, having a website which really focuses on your guests user experience, which is cool. Let's talk about the. The website. Obviously, a couple of months ago you sort of decided to redo your website and to focus on that. Direct bookings. How important has that been for the business?

Huge. I think ideally about. Well, at the moment, about 30% of our overall bookings come direct. So you could then split that down again into. You've got. We call them direct bookings, but a lot of them are our team manually putting them into the system. So we use HostAway. What we want to do is it's, you know, instead of saying, yeah, I'll, I'll put this in the calendar for you, we could just send a link to the website and they can easily book it themselves, saving us time to focus on other things. So I would say that's. That's kind of like our, our main aim moving forward and our new website gives us the chance to do that. Our last one was a little bit slow, slightly more clunky, but the layout of this one, it's. It's chalk and cheese and hopefully the diet bookings are going to just rise and rise.

That's cool. And for anybody listening who wants to go and check it out is clark and clarkanderson properties.co.uk and definitely go and Check out the nearby section, the colors on it, the pictures, professional pictures throughout. So there's so many things that you guys have and you guys been an absolute pleasure working with you. I've seen obviously the comments in the WhatsApp group between you and the team and truthfully, it's just nice to work with clients who are great with communication. And also it's clear that you have fun doing what we're doing. It's important. So coming back to Simon then, what would you say has been one perception about doing short term lets and management business that's changed over time since you started doing this, you started in 2016, is that right?

2017. Yeah, we registered the company in 2017 and we took on our first one in December 2017. I mean, to be fair, I think these conversations should be candid. Our expectations have been fairly well managed. I think it does help having a hospitality background. I think a kind of moment for us to really answer the question. We when we kind of discovered that we wanted to do something together and we were interested in trying something, we were kind of working with property people who are more development, more buy to let more passive income. You know that we're all doing the same thing. But I kind of see that as the site of property and we're doing this almost accommodation hospitality. Yes, we are working with properties but more in the hospitality combination, tourism side of things. So we were kind of in this circle. We were going to drift into this one. While we were here, we went over to a course that kind of upsold a number of different courses you could go on. This one was a free one and then we had like 40 pitches over two days, which is crazy. But we went on a service accommodation course. Now I know the value of these things. Looking back, I might not have done it. I think it was kind of late driving. You know, there was lots of theory, but until you get behind the wheel, you really don't know what you're doing. We went to this course and at that point one of the big talking points was rent to rent. It wasn't really spoke about much in Scotland or certainly Dundee, which is really wet at the time. But Stuart and I were kind of like, okay, we can make this work here. So the way it was pitched to us it would just be mega easy. So, so easy to get your hands on rent to rent in terms like no money down was getting chucked out. We're going to give you a free T's and C's and we're going to give you A free contract and here's lots of other stuff. July we registered the company and after doing that course we expected and planned to have 10 rent to rents by the end of the year. Then we did our first one live in December. It was just nothing like what we had been so kind of disappointing that we'd been educated that way because it really wasn't. And taking a step back, I don't think we did anything wrong. You were being reflective. Could we have done it the way the trainer suggested and could we do anything different? But you know, property managers, management companies provide to. Let's thought we were trying to cut them up. Owners thought we were trying to scam them. Some people just hadn't heard the term and thought we were just making stuff up. So that, that was probably the, the moment where we thought, oh, we're going to, this is really easy, we're going to make it. It's going to, you know, 10 by end of the year and we had one and the reality just came crashing down. Okay, this is nowhere near like what we were taught earlier. But to answer the question, that was probably the only expectation that was different to what we thought it was going to be.

That's cool. And they do say that I think it is a grant Cardone who says, you know, whatever expectations you got, it's going to be 10 times harder or whatever it is than what you spend 10 times more effort and that side of things. But it sounds like you say just getting in that driver's seat and doing it is one of the best ways to learn.

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Let's talk about the tech stack then. So you mentioned you use host. Host away is your pms. Yeah. And is there any other pieces of tech that you use as a business that you'd really say has had a great impact and something that you find really helpful?

Yeah, I mean we, we when you stop and think about it because we, we did a topic just a week there and we brought that to the table. There's the kind of things you need to do if you want to be a management company. We spoke about some of the tech that we use and it's not until you do that that you realize we actually use a lot. So we have Hostelite, which is our channel manager. It was one that we adopted in December last year. Prior to that, when we're using Kego for the best part of four years, we now use Canva, which is a great tool. Sandra uses it more than anyone for our market material, presentations, proposals, this kind of thing.

Yeah, you can never, never take Canva away from me. Please.

Use a DocuSign for our management agreements. Prior to that we were sending PDFs and you try and get them back in the mail. And we use Monday.com we have stripe for payment system. So we actually use maybe about 10 different pieces of tech for day to day use. The one that I personally use have a different answer. The one I think has brought most value to our company and the one that we use the most is definitely Air Guide. And I know that you guys have spoken with other people that do something similar. So it's not necessarily Air Guide in particular that I think, but that concept, the reason we find it so useful is we use it twofold. It's for the guests, it's the digital guide, but we use it in house for helping guests. So again, we're still a small team, we're still growing and the operation is where most of the stress is, trying to keep up with various things. And if our Aberdeen property manager is off, he'll do a handover with someone here, but ultimately we're not managing those properties until he comes back from Dundee. So you get a call from someone up in Aberdeen and they say, oh, something's happened and you think it's a fuse box issue, but you don't know where the fuse box is. You open up their guide, so we're doing. You kind of fill them up with everything. It might seem overkill, but I guess we'll most likely never click through to that level. They'll want to know how the heating works, but they'll not need to know where the stopcock is. We can use the Air Guide from that point of view. So it's an in house tool. We used to speak about creating a property bible which was just going to be this Mad XL and Google Drive and it was going to be chopped with all the tabs would be properties and we'd have all the things, we just fill the Air Guide, very inexpensive, but huge, huge value. So you get a great experience for your guest. But in house, we use it every day for reminding ourselves where things are, how it affects things, even simple things. You know, I've come in, TV's not on the right channel, how do you tune it? And you know, just open up the Air Guide. Okay, it's not that it means re training, it's just HDMI1. Rather it means you might just do the quick change, but, oh, problem solved, guests happy, moving on. And all we had to do was crack open the laptop and access that particular Air Guide. So for me, I would say that's the one that brings most value to the business day to day.

What a great answer. And when it comes down, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people now Google and Air Guides and you know, when tech works, I know in the past there's certain pieces of tech that I've tried to use which I'm having to work hard to use because I want to be able to use it. Whereas the tech which really works for your company is like you say, the tech which just works well for guests and you find you're using it all the time. Well, you know, it's the sort of tech that wins. And Sandy, I wanted to come across to you with Canva. Have you got any tips for. If you just cover what Canva is and how you use it? That would be awesome because I know people listening may or not have heard of Canva.

Yeah, Canva is what I would create all of our content for social media. So you can resize depending on the platform that you're posting on. You can also link directly to your Facebook and Instagram, so you can schedule posts straight from Canva. So you're kind of saving time that way as well. You can then animate, make videos. It's just an all round good tool. And then we also have it. I mean, I can't remember how many people you get in an account. So I think overall we might have two separate Canva accounts, but that does our entire business. It's, I mean, 10 pound a month, 11 pound a month is worth every penny. But we would also use it internally as well because you can do presentations and things. So our property managers can do proposals, you know, anything if you need to do a presentation or, you know, it kind of covers everything.

That's really cool. I really recommend it and I think for when you're first getting started, that's free, isn't it? When you first get started, you can actually the free account as well, which is terrific and definitely one that we use. You forget how many good bits of tech are out there and that's one which we use, which we forget to include in our tech stack. But it's such a good tool. So what we'd like to do is just check. Simon, what advice would you have to somebody who's either just getting started or to somebody or to go back to yourself, what advice would you say to yourself that you now know?

Yeah, I mean, tips for our hosts. I can add two parts to that one. One, as a private host, not using a management company, doing it yourself, I would say don't undervalue your property. I think people, when it comes to the revenue coming in and making it work, because it is, you've got a lot of things to pay up at the end of the month with the property that you're now managing yourself, you're going to offer it as a whole delay. That means all the builds are on you and you need guess revenue to assist with that. But I would say it's important to not undervalue your property. I remember when we added our first property, you know, on the Airbnb, they would try and encourage you to use their smart pricing tool and they would come up with some generic info like, you know, sell your property at 42 pounds a night and you'll get 70% more bookings. I can see the logic, but at the end of the day, 43 pounds a night, you know, so if you, if you personally as a private host, have a fantastic property, you believe in it, you spent time on it, it's a home from home. You look around and you can I put it up there for a reason? I hope the guest enjoys this. I really hope that they love this. Just go with your gut on it. Don't undervalue the property. Don't be scared to offer a three night minimum stay. Don't be scared to put in a little damage, deposit things that you might think that might discourage people to book. I think you should have the confidence to go for it and believe in your property. And as a management company and if any owners are owners, see this, I hope they don't misinterpret. I think it's important that you put your guests first before your revenue. It's quite hard when you experience a property or an owner who really wants to kind of drive the revenue and it's an investment and you want to make it work. You're selling a property at £170. Really, it shouldn't be up for any more than 90 pound. And I think applying empathy to that, you start thinking about if you were going to this property and you paid that money, or your kids or your family or your parents, save up and they're staying in this place for five nights and it's costing a grand or something and they walk in and it's disappointing or basic. So try to put your guests first. Picture your guests walking into that property. Picture them sleeping in that bed, picture them sitting on that sofa. Is it comfy? Is the shower powerful? Are they getting nice amenities and things like this? Put them first and then put your revenue based on the experience you hope and expect them to get. And that will drive more bookings, that will drive repeat guests, that'll drive people speaking about it, leaving reviews, maybe coming to you and asking, how can we leave you a private review? Trying to push someone to Google as opposed to Airbnb or something like this. So they kind of contradict each other. But I would say that was the best tips I could offer in terms of that. Yeah, it is genuine. It's maybe a bit too candid, especially if our customers are watching, but again, I hope it's not misinterpreted because we, we are obviously a management company and we have a commission based model rather than a flat fee. And we did that to show that we want to be invested in the property with the owner. So we don't have any movements for you and we don't make you any money. We don't make any money. We don't want that let you down. We don't want to have a company that doesn't make any money. So it is a, a positive way to look at it. In terms of advice for myself, going back, it's maybe a bit cliche, but move faster now. Clark Anderson may be where it is now because of the pace that we worked at or we work at and it's really based on hindsight, but I would definitely try and move faster. I have to remind myself that I'll know we're coming up for five years old, you know, 16 to 18 months. That was survival mode during COVID So really we're only this. But I would try and move fast. Even now I'm constantly telling myself we should be there, not here, or we've never had any external investment, but maybe we should, maybe we should work with investors, maybe we should try and build this or work in that. But don't be. The overall message would be just don't be concerned, don't be too scared. Just make the leap, make it work. If you've got confidence in yourself, your business, since your service, and you've got great people around you, it will definitely work. So that would be advice to myself.

Really, really love that. There's some, there's some gems in there. So I mean with, you know, really, you know, be brave, move faster and really think about the end user and the experience they're going to have. You know, like, I love what you said there about picture. It was your, your parents, your, your siblings, your grandparents, your children going to stay in these places. How would they feel about their experience? And you know, and that is the kind of thing that we want to convey to owners. So that's really cool. So as we reach the end of these, we like to do a couple of quick fire questions because there are two of you. What I'm going to do is just do a few questions, but the answer can be as short, as long as you like and just a bit of fun really. So what did you want to be when you're growing up, Simon?

I seem to have a memory very young, wanted to be an architect and then somehow that switched to wanting to be a personal trainer in the Rafa. No idea where either of those came from. Awesome.

Sandy, how about yourself?

Can't believe I'm actually going to say this, but when I was little I remember telling someone I wanted to be Snow White when I grew up.

Brilliant. What trait most defines who you are? And we'll start with Sandy.

Oh, I don't know. I like a bit of comedy.

Comedy.

Awesome.

Simon, what about yourself?

Probably empathy. I find him on self reflection. I'm a very empathetic person. Person. It sometimes drives me to be indecisive, which is never good. But yeah, I always find myself putting myself in the shoes of someone else and what they experience before making a decision on what the decision should be. Amazing.

A gift that not everybody has. So that's cool. And I can't not ask this. Obviously we are based in hospitality. So favorite travel destination. Simon, where do you most like to travel to?

Well, Vegas.

Vegas. Nice.

Yeah, I've been twice. My, my parents did a Chicago, New York, Vegas. I think I was like 16 at the time. And they came back and my dad said I'll take you to base in 21. And he did and it was one of the best holies. I've been a second time and did some other things and I'm hoping to go back again with my partner as she's never been. I think she'd love it. The less glamorous answer. I love Germany. I've been there a few times. I love the people, I love the culture. The buildings are absolutely fantastic. It's quite Gothic everywhere you look with the amazing buildings and anyone who hasn't been there before, I think the German language can come across slightly aggressive. It's just one of those languages. But the people are just super nice and love Scottish people. And we get a ton of Germans coming up to play golf here and stay with us and we always get good rapport with them. So the big fancy answer is Vegas. But the closer to Homelander would be Germany. I would actually. I would live in Germany. My partner would let me, but she won't.

Well, if there's any hosts listening in from Vegas or from Germany, I'm sure they'll be reaching out to you. So I've been. Sandy, same question to you. Where do you like to travel to?

Norwich.

Norwich? Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. You know where to stay when you come to Norwich? Come and speak to me.

No, I think any European city. I'm a big fan of City Break, so kind of try and get around them all.

Yeah, nice. So just across Europe, just in general.

Yeah. Although I have been to Nashville and I would go back there in a heartbeat. Sure. Watching Mark, when you guys were the beastly.

Yeah, this. I. I never knew how many hosts we've had. So many hosts reach out who are based in Nashville. After that talk, really. I'm sure there'll be people listening going, we Nashville gone. Well, thank you so much to you both for spending the time with us on the behind your host podcast. If people wanted to get in touch, what is the best way to do. So, Simon, if you can give the website and then Sandy, if you can give the Instagram page a.

That's all right. Yeah. So the website address is clarkandersonproperties.co.uk of course, you could fill in the contact form or you could reach out to us at hello. Clarkandersonproperties.co.uk or if you want to reach one of us personally, it's just our first name with the same handle at the end. Awesome.

And then Sandy.

And then for Instagram, you'll find us Clark Anderson Properties and Facebook. We are serviced accommodation one.

Cool, cool. Well, thank you so much. Did either of you have any closing comments that you wanted to let the listeners know about?

Sandy, you want to go first?

Well, thanks for listening. Thanks for having us.

No worries, guys.

I think from my point of view, I know Sandy has predominantly been involved with the project with yourself. We've had a couple of bits of conversation, but it's been great to meet you. It's been a pleasure. Being invited onto the podcast and being able to do this is actually something new for us as well. It's been exciting. Love the questions and really appreciate the opportunity and hopefully people are listening. Enjoy it as well. But if there's anything else we can offer or any help we can provide the people who are thinking about doing this, then please reach out. You know, we're here. We're here to help.

That's awesome. And I know so many listeners and so many people will have got some real gems out of this today. So thank you both for coming on and I'm sure we'll speak again in the future. Bye for now.

Perfect. Bye. Bye.

Bye.