Actionable Steps You Can Take to be More Successful in Hospitality

Welcome back to the Boostly Podcast, the podcast that gives hosts the tools, the tactics, the training and most importantly, the confidence so you can go out there and get yourselves direct bookings. We have a mini series here on the Boostly podcast where we get to interview hosts, people who are doing interesting things, successful things from all over the world. And we've got a very special guest on today, we've got James from BnB Uni. He's based on the Other side of the World. I'm going to let him give himself his own introduction. He's got an awesome hospitality company called Sandy Dreams and I'm really excited to speak to him today about that and also how he's helping other hosts, especially around, you know, the actionable stuff you guys need to do to be successful in this business. So welcome along. James. Thank you for joining me today.

Thank you.

Liam.

You sound much more professional and crisp than before we started talking before. Well done.

No worries. This radio host now. Radio, exactly. It's. I've learned this from somebody closer to your part of the world, which is Julie George. She is amazing. When she, when she switched.

Oh yeah, yeah, I remember her.

Yeah, she's, she's around in a lot of the, you know, she does a lot of the speaking gigs around the US and all over the world now. But James, anyway, introduce yourself, tell me a bit about your business, like the elevator pitch of your. Your business.

Yeah. Okay. So I've got about 23 properties between Sydney, Australia and Stockholm, Sweden. Most of my money comes from rental arbitrage like renting with permission from the owner to sublet on Airbnb and other platforms and as well as my own bootstly website. And then the around a quarter comes from management deals like managing places on behalf of owners and taking a percentage. And I live between Sydney for four to six months a year and Europe for about the same time for the last two years since the pandemic and plan to keep doing that until. Until that's not possible, I suppose.

Nice. I mean, so you've got kind of your thumb in many pies there of the arbitrage, the training, the, you know, sort of managing for hours, all, all sorts going on there. Can you let the listeners know a bit more about those 23 units? Who, who are the people you tend to host? Why do they come and stay with you?

So it's a lot of people answer that question that they have like a concise answer of a couple of different types, but it's just completely random from all different countries and all different purposes, whether it be a common vacation or business trips and so on. So yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty random actually.

Got it, got it. When it comes down to those different models, what is it that appeals to you about those different models? Why did you not stick with one and go for, for the rest? Yeah, talk to us about that.

Okay, so. So I actually I started out in Sweden like 2016. I moved there for a girl and I, I could either get a, I could either study or get a job, like a low paying job or start a business. I noticed the gap between the long term prices and the Airbnb prices were like 3-4x. So I actually rented a two bed place without permission to rent out the other room. I told them that I was going to have business associate staying or whatever. So I was staying there and renting out the other room. They caught me, they said, hey, what are you doing? Then we negotiated, just put the whole place back on Airbnb. Used to be on Airbnb like before and she was sick of the stress. So that was my first one. And then after that I started doing management deals and I, and I. Well, and also kind of really arbitrage. It was kind of like guarantee deals where the host is trying to rent it out for €500 per week. I'll say I'll get you 550 or 600 and I'll keep the rest or, or otherwise we can do a percent split. And then I scale up to like 27 properties in two years. And I was just stressed out of my mind at all different cleaners and I didn't have a car, catch taxis to Ikea and carrying bags, the big blue bags by myself, all that sort of stuff. And when you have 27, well, it was probably 20 management deals and seven guarantee kind of deals. You're dealing with like 15 to 20 different people and personalities and you can't control how the place looks. So I didn't furnish places when I was back in Sweden. Then when I moved back to Australia a few years ago, like a year after that I got to 27. I just started renting places with permission and then I would furnish them as well so I could control everything down to the paintings on the wall. And I kind of created a formula where you can squeeze out like in my opinion, every possible dollar like to, to the 5% from a property by completely optimizing according to like the location and the style of the property for what your, your guest would typically want.

Nice. What I like about this is, obviously there's been lots of learnings along the way. So how long ago was when you first started in Sweden versus where you are now?

So it was 2016 in Sweden and then after a year I had seven properties and then another year later it was 2027. They weren't long term deals at 27 or probably around half of them were for a period of less than six months. So yeah, it was a big surge. And you know, I got scammed by a VA that was because I had a six week holiday booked and I was already working like 60 hours a week or more. I was like, what am I going to do? I'm going to have to hire a manager. And she convinced me to hire like loads of VAs and I'd never run a business like this before. She's like, oh, you need to have one VA per three properties. So I just trusted her. And then if we had like 8 or 9Vs getting like a thousand US dollars a month and then by the end of the summer I'd only made like 15 grand or something profit and I was like, I had to just cut everyone except for like two or three, the best ones.

So yeah, there's lots of learnings there. And that sounds like that was probably. Was that the biggest challenge? Was there any other challenges along your journey?

Well, Covid was a challenge that was probably still the second biggest challenge after that whole. That whole, you know, not making money when you have so many properties. But I found that with a combination of getting rents or, you know, setting management deal owners expectations and convincing that it's still a better idea to keep it on so that we can capitalize from summers and stuff like that. And by selecting the right properties and furnishing them the right way, they were still worth more than what I was paying in the rent, even though there was such a shock to the market. So I still able to like make okay money through that period and not like lose money like if I. I don't know how many guaranteed rents I had per week, but I wasn't like losing money on each deal. I was like, at least covering the costs on the worst ones.

Yeah, that's a relief. That's relief. So flipping that question up, what's been the biggest wow moment or the biggest successes since 2016? What. What stands out as being something that you're very proud of or something which was hard to do when you got there?

The biggest wow moment is like, I reached it actually in like February, January, February of 2020. And it's basically when you don't need to really check your phone every day or do tasks and you've. You get VAs that you trust and you've got them, you know, covering all the periods where they need to cover like 9am till 11pm and yeah, you could just kind of go on holiday for like at least a week without checking anything, rather than checking every single day to make sure. Make sure everything is all good. I guess the word is like asana in like meditation or something. It's like this promised lens on the other side of getting things like all your systems set up and then. And then the pandemic hit and then. But then I reached it again like 18 months ago or so.

I think the, the learnings we can take from that is that there are ups and downs in business in there. And it doesn't just mean that as long as you don't quit and you're carrying on going, then you will either get back up to that asana moment you just mentioned or, you know, even if you're going through challenges, it's just not stopping doing what you do and things that, you know, work, which is amazing.

That's true. Sorry, just to answer that. A better answer to that question would be believing in what you do works. Right. Find I found a formula and then throughout Covid I was, I was actually still acquiring more properties. So I just knew that there was going to be a big boom and it would probably last a while until we have like normality, which is still good. So then I just made more money than I ever imagined. Like once we're on the other side of like borders open and stuff with all the properties that I got as well. Yeah.

And what a great time to still be in business then with the. Everyone traveling and everyone was kind of like let out, wasn't it? It was fantastic. Yeah.

Yeah.

Normally we ask like, how do you track locations that work? But particularly with your experience, I'm going to switch that up for hosts who are listening to this. How do you find that team of people so you can get to that asana moment?

So basically every time I've had a problem va and then now I've had these lessons, I've learned that it was ultimately my fault and just one little thing that ticked me off at the start or in the interview or in the first two months that ended up proving to be like going 10 times that problem, you know, that red flag that was turned into like 10 red flags later. So you always need to trust your gut and just Be really picky and, you know, just cut people loose either in the interview, don't just think, oh yeah, they seem okay. They can't just seem okay, they need to seem perfect. So you need to check their previous bosses. If they say some excuse, then don't, don't talk to them anymore. You need to post the ad on upwork with like, please start your application with the word banana with a capital B and the rest lowercase. So I know you have attention to detail. You put that in the middle of a block of text. I'm not really sure how to counter the AI thing but usually you can, you can see if someone's using chat GPT GPT in their application and then ask questions as well to filter their application. Like, okay, what is a. What is the best channel manager that you've had experience with? Why did you like that? So then you can just easily sort through all the people that are just taking a gamble and seeing if you're going to hire them basically.

Nice, Nice. Is there a preferred VA platform you use or is it just the. I know a lot of people use upwork and places like that.

I used online jobs for a while at the start but then they changed their model so I can't remember why I didn't use them anymore. But yeah, usually just upwork because you can get, you know, dozens of applications, which is, you can usually find a diamond in there 100%.

And like anything when people ask about, you know, how do you find a good va, well, staff, no matter where you are in the world, you've got to, you've got to sort through and find the best ones, haven't you? So yeah, I really like your answer there.

If you're struggling on how to get direct bookings and overwhelmed on where to start, then I recommend you go and book in a call with Boostly and our team right now we can walk you through exactly what we're offering, how we can help you and give you a portfolio of websites that we have worked with that are matching not only your niche, but could be in your location as well. Boostly has helped over 2000 hospitality businesses all over the world increase their direct bookings. And if you are interested, then all you need to do is go to Boostly. B O O s t l y.co.uk call and book in an appointment with one of our sales team.

So yeah, talking more generally, I can kind of see the journey you've been on through obviously Sweden. The know taken on a lot it being overwhelming and then once You've moved back, you've then started again with Sandy Dreams. Is that when Sandy Dreams started? Sydney Dreams, Yeah, sorry, Sydney Dreams, sorry. With Sydney Dreams, you're now up to, to 23 units there. How are things right now? Are things more. More manageable? Are you in a good space and what, what else are you doing within your business and how are you helping other hosts?

Okay, so how are things now? Things are good. They could run without me, but I still can save money, like by getting involved a bit. So I've got a cleaner, for example, on minimum 30 hours, but we don't have enough work for her. So I'm just making sure my staff like thinking, create, thinking creatively to get her to do something, not sending her to the shops at 50 bucks an hour to buy something that could be ordered online. So I'm just optimizing stuff like that that will hopefully stay with them when I go back to Europe. And I'm not like micromanaging. So, yeah, things are running by themselves now and it's just about tweaking and optimizing in terms of helping other hosts. I've got something called bnb uni.com, where I've got like a mentorship program and help people out and basically like a live course and then six months of live calls with me every Monday. So students jump on and they'll apply what they learn in the course or what they spoke to me about the week before, and then we'll kind of refine it. And I've realized that, like, while it might seem easy to me to do that, you really do need guidance because you can go on like a tangent and then it's going to take you six weeks to get back to what, like, if you didn't have these live calls, they might go on a tangent for six weeks. They'll learn that lesson. They'll eventually get to where they need to go to know what they need to do, but it's going to take like six times longer or maybe they just get stuck on the tent and then stop doing it. So, yeah, if I could have had these live calls back then, I would have just been able to sort this all out in like two and a half years. Probably get to that asana moment instead of like seven or eight, eight years or whatever it's been.

They say that you can either learn by doing and you learn by putting in the time, the effort and all the mistakes, or you could actually learn arbitrarily from the your mentor's mistakes and that saves you that time. Right. So that is, that's, that. That's one of the things which will. Yeah, it'll help others on the call. So let's talk about some of those tips and some of the lessons that you've, you've kind of learned along the way. What would you say would be a couple of tips for hosts if they're just getting started? What has worked for you that could work for them too. What is some of the secrets that without selling the full secret source that, that have worked for you?

Okay, so, so I mean it might seem basic to experts but the photos have to be okay. The property selection needs to be in a location that properties are already working right. So you got to find someone that's already making money. So let's say you go to particular area and there's a place earning a thousand dollars a week. Can you find that exact same place for rent for 15 for 500 bucks a week? Then you know that that person is probably making money. Okay, what about in three months at six months in the different seasons? Then once you find that then you figure out okay, how can you optimize the place by putting the right furniture in there. So just because you've got the same place and you rent like a shitty furnished place, it doesn't mean that it's going to perform the same. So it's really fine margins. Like you know, you got to have like some cool paintings and maybe a smeg toaster and kettle. Like you got to think about those details that are going to pay off for years of managing. Just because you get fully booked like ages in advance doesn't mean you're killing it with pricing. Probably means that you're leaving a lot on the table. So you got to strike a balance for your area. My balance is like I try to get booked out for like four to six weeks in advance because otherwise that four weeks away starts to get last minute territory. And then there's loads of like other lessons, micro lessons of like tweaking minimum stay. So like minimum stay on Wednesday might be like four or five nights or Tuesday might be five nights. So because you don't want sort of check out on a Saturday and slice your weekend in half if it's reduce that Friday night by 50 to get all the bookings cuddling up. There's like. Yeah, there's endless stuff that you can optimize. So I'm even still learning as I go.

Yeah, that's cool. I really like that revenue management is, is important, isn't it? Just when you see somebody who's 100 booked and booked for the year ahead, you're just like, well man, you must be leaving money on the table because you shouldn't be 100%. And sometimes people wear it like a badge of pride going, well, I'm fully booked and I go up your prices a little bit. You know, just, just nudge those prices up until you can you work less hard and earn the same and you know, can you check the ceiling of those prices that you're, that you've got on your listings?

Yeah. And some people are hesitant to increase their prices because they don't want to get lower reviews. But for some of my places, if the place is just perfect, then the higher the price people have more fun because they're more invested in what they're getting. As long as everything is perfect.

Right.

So it becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy. Like oh, look at all those five star reviews. Oh, it's like a thousand dollars a night or $700 a night, let's book it anyway. Then they have a great time, they live 5 star reviews and it just keeps on happening. And it's kind of puts it in like this illogical category. It's like, am I really going to spend like a week's pay on two nights to stay? But when you compare it to like a place that's just average and you know, ugly old furniture that is in the same building is still worth it because everything is perfect. So they feel refreshed and yeah, it makes sense.

Sometimes when you lower your price, sometimes you attract people who might not be quite the right avatar for your property. And when you've. Then sometimes when they stay, even though they've got it at a cheaper rate, they're sometimes more critical I tend to find. Whereas the ones you're charging the premium to can actually be happier. Because it's weird where as a human psyche, if we see something with a high price tag, we assume it's better. It is just what we do as humans. So that's cool. What are some of the tech that you use and why in your business?

So we've got. So I went through a couple of channel managers when they were first kind of released. So we were jumping around and it was a lot of effort but we ended up settling on host away based on price and what they offered seem to be, seemed to be pretty good. So are we talking to beginners or.

Experts mainly there'll be a mix of people listening to this. So if we can target one towards each, if it's okay.

Okay, so we've got the channel manager host away, which is like our dashboard. Right. And that's kind of like the back engine to the Boostly website, which that direct booking site like sydneydreams.com and so direct bookings come either from Google or they see our logo on Airbnb, booking.com et cetera. Hopefully Google this and then come to our website or via Instagram. So anyway, that's all powered by, by Hostaway. Then you've got the price labs, which controls the pricing and minimum states, which is, which is me adjusting and working out with, working around with the software like around twice a week. I'm adjusting that we just use Google Drive for storing our SOPs. We use Dropbox for adding videos to welcome messages. We send our welcome messages via a Google Doc link with anyone can access to the link. So we can have like a really long kind of thing that we're explaining to think of. Is there. Did I cover most of the things or.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's cool. I mean there's, there's some really good ones there. I mean, just understanding how businesses are set up. I remember in the early days trying to think, well, what do I need? You know, I'm starting out. What, how does all this work? You know what, even the idea, I mean, for you and me, we think of price labs and you go, well, to me, it's a must to have a dynamic pricing tool. But in the early days you go, well, what is dynamic pricing? How does that work? You know, and all that sort of stuff. So that's a cool setup. And I like the idea of using them dropboxes as where the messages are stored. Because then did you include like videos within those dropboxes and stuff like that, or is it.

If it's a bit more complicated, we'll add a Dropbox hosted video to our Google document welcome message. Like, here's the lock, here's where the lockbox is. Or use the oven or microwave.

That's cool. And that can look more professional, more tailored than just a straightforward email. So yeah, that's, that's a cool little trick and tactic. I've not, not come across that which is cool.

Oh, okay.

So one of the things we like to ask is what, what resources have helped you along the way? Is there any kind of people out there in the industry, any books, any podcast, any mentors, all of that sort of thing? Has anybody that has helped you that you'd like to draw attention to for the people listening?

I can't remember the names, but I used to just like whenever I had a problem, I would just search it on YouTube and then watch a couple of videos and see if I could figure out what the go was. So in general, I would just say YouTube, there's usually going to be your answer. It just might take a little while to get your answer with a bit of trial and error. Yeah, it's.

YouTube is fantastic because pretty much whatever you need to do, there's a video on there. Right. And some of those courses on there, actually, you could, you know, it's knowing where to look sometimes. And this is the thing about the difference between the information available. But then it's also good to have like a mentor like you spoke about or coach earlier on to really interpret what the. The best thing to do is in our unique situations. And.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.

What?

Yeah, I was usually, I was always one of those people that's like, I would never want to pay for courses. I just thought they were all scams. But then when I'm teaching people and seeing that if they didn't talk to me, they would have gone on that tangent that just wouldn't have been fruitful or left their website looking that way and then spent all that effort and probably got rejected because of some small things on their website. Yeah, then there's like a lot, lot of things that can optimize your journey. So you either pay the price by paying someone to help you or paying it with the length of time it takes you to achieve what you want.

100%. And it's weird, isn't it? Because as your business grows and as you get to like the next kind of step, when you analyze your business, you go, oh, hang on, I'm doing the same things every day. And I now want to get to the next step. Now, my go to, if I want to get to the next level of the business, my go to is, who can I pay, who's a mentor who's already at that next level so they can quickly get me up to the next level. Because you start to realize that it's not can you do it? Once you've got the mindset, you get some success, you know you can do it. It's just how quick I can do it and is it worth the effort? And that's why you need the, the next level of mentorship up, isn't it so.

Exactly. Exactly.

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What does the future of, of your business look like? Both BNB Uni and Sydney Dreams.

Sydney Dreams. We will probably focus more on management management deals. If there is a good rental arbitrage that pops up, I'll, I'll take it. But my focus will be on growing. With the management deals they earn less per unit of effort but it's not my effort anymore. So it's actually scalable now because I was involved in efforts, I didn't really want to mess around with management deals. So management deals get a better ebitda, which is like a multiple on your profit. So if I ever want to sell my business, the more management deals, the better they kind of value it like an e commerce store, like a kind of APP valuation. So yeah, the more of those that you have, the better because it shows that you've got a model where you could keep growing and then you could sell it to like one of the big companies for like five times profit or something like that. For BNB Uni, we would like to teach worldwide. So we've, we've currently got, it's really interesting, we've got a student from Nepal that we kind of selected him to join for free and we're helping him set up a business in Dubai doing management deals. So since I know that it's possible to run and get new property stuff, sign up new properties. Since I've been in Australia, like back over in Sweden and you know, when I was in Ibiza last summer, signing up new properties here, whether it be management or rental arbitrage, I know that it's possible. I didn't build my whole business like that, but I know that's possible. So we'd like to kind of leverage, like bring some leverage to people in places like Latin America or Nepal to make money from expensive countries like Switzerland by, or Norway by following what I teach, if that makes sense. So that's exciting.

Yeah, yeah, that's really exciting. I mean ultimately we're only limited by mindset and you know, once upon a Time it was geography. Whereas now because of technology and because of the world's a smaller place. Right. The model works. It's just being able to apply it in, in those other places. I really like that idea. It's really cool.

Yeah, like when I was telling Trilog Berries that our student, it was hard for him to believe. He thought that he would have to do it in deport. Like when he was in our DMs and stuff, he thought he would have to go into port. But I was like, it's not worth it because you could just get one place in Dubai or Norway or whatever instead of 10 places in Nepal and then you're, you know, paid for the whole, it pays your whole living cost there. So yeah, it should be cool to get a good case study and then teach other people how to do that.

That's really good for him as well. What a nice thing to do to be able to teach and proof of concept for free for this chap as well. So one of the things I wanted to just draw people's attention to that you mentioned there was ebitda which you know, to actually get your to to focus on your business with an end goal in mind of actually looking at it like investor, like somebody who may purchase the business. Not just as a day to day, hey, this is my operations, this is what I've got to do today. Is my cleaning team going to go and clean and all that sort of stuff. But actually looking at it from a very high level and there's going to be people listening to this obviously who are starting out who don't need to worry about that at all. But there's other people who will be at a stage where you, you've got your systems down, you're ready to really start looking at your business as you know, what's the next stage, how am I gonna, you know, what will be the exit eventually and stuff like that. So that's really cool as well.

One thing to people that are starting out, I think you actually do need to think of stuff like that because otherwise you have the wrong mindset and then you'll just get stuck managing like seven places and you just work all and you can't get to like 15, 20 places. The only way you can get past that barrier, I don't know what it is but I think it's probably like 10 or 12 places where you need to start being able to outsource. Basically it's you just keep it really simple. It's like, okay, this task that I'm about to do. What can I do to never have to do this again? And then just make an SOP and then give that to your VA. Or even better, if you have the right VA, you record a voice message to them on WhatsApp or Slack and say, can you please make a new sop? I'm going to do this task. This is what you need to do. Do it in this frequency, blah, blah, blah. And then, yeah, you just get everything out of your head and then so that into a structured thing that your VAs can follow. If you do that from the start, then it'll be a lot easier or not from the very start, but from like five places and up. Once you have like a part time VA or something.

Yeah, and in the early days it can be quite overwhelming with you know, learning hospitality, learning the systems, learning the tech and all of that sort of stuff. But ultimately it is a business, right? And every business has got to work long term, so completely agree. So we're going to be sharing how people can get in touch with you in, in just a moment. Before we do, we're just to change the, change it up slightly. We'll go for a fun question. So if you could pick anybody out of history or even alive now, anybody famous, who would you pick to come to a dinner?

And why Alex Hormozy? Because he breaks everything down into like basically sentences for dummies, which is so good, it's like, it's an example rather than like, you know, do we set up calendly to get more call if you're selling a mentorship or do we need to feel more realtors? You just need to get more leads to get more sales. So you need to just pull the levers that get those things. If that makes sense.

His way of explaining it, he said, look, if, if we can't explain stuff like it, we'd explain it to say a child. Then he goes, well, you know, we, we can do everything, we can break things down to those basic steps, can't we? And that's what he does so well. And for everybody who's listening to this going, who is Alex Hormozi? Type him into YouTube. So it's Alex and then his surname's H O R M O Z I. And yeah, he's got an amazing YouTube. He's one of the few people at the moment who everybody's waiting for him to sell us something like a course or some, you know, something like. And he just is refusing to do it. And that in itself is bringing a Lot of attention, which is, which is amazing.

I just want to make a hormozy slash Tim Ferriss style sentence for anyone that is starting a short term rental business. You just think, think to yourself when you sit at your desk each day, okay, what could I do today that would make all of my other tasks on my to do list irrelevant? And it's usually going to be get more places or optimize your current places. So you just need to get, focus your energy on getting more properties and then the rest of your energy on optimizing it or automating and stuff like that. You don't need to just tinker around with like a couple of properties. If your goal is to build a massive business, you need to be tinkering around with your whole day getting, pulling that lever of just getting more properties.

Yeah, nice, nice. So I'm going to throw the mic open. How can we get in touch? How can we find out more?

We've got a free training currently. Like it goes, it's me talking for like an hour on, in a bit more detail than this on bnbuni.com like Airbnb, but BNB uni.com or on Instagram, we are the BNB uni. Soon to be just BNB uni in 2024. That's what it'll be. I think that that's enough. We don't need, we need one that.

No, that's cool.

Around YouTube and TikTok, you could probably find us the BNB Uni or BNB Uni.

Cool. And of course we'll add those in the show notes, however you're listening or watching this as well. So that leaves us with our final question. Is there a mantra or a motto which has resonated you with you over your experience and over the years that you'd like to share with others?

Yeah, I think it's John D. Rockefeller. A man who works all day has no time to make any money.

I like it.

Yeah.

And what, what, how do you interpret, what is the, the meaning for yourself with that?

So yeah, if you're, if you're working all day, you know, you personally are making sure your guests are happy, you are replying to them, you are making sure the cleans are good, you're talking to your cleaners in the WhatsApp groups and all that sort of stuff. You are choosing to not make more money by focusing your time on just getting more places. If that is what you want. If you want to build a. You need to be as soon as humanly possible you need to choose, allow yourself to focus on that and outsource the stuff that is outsourceable, like making sure cleans are good or talking to guests like it's definitely outsourceable for lower than your time is currently worth. Opportunity cost and don't sell your time short.

Nice. I really like that. And I mean, this is the feeling that I've got from this podcast is leverage is key. You know, like do things with intent and leverage as much as you can is really important. And I really thank you, James, for, for coming on today, sharing your experience, your story of your hospitality business and letting people know as well about your BNB uni. And yeah, I'm sure you're gonna have people reach out to you and thank you very much for your time.

Thanks for having me, Liam.

Pleasure. You're very welcome. Thank you too, for listening to this on the Boostly podcast. We know there's lots of places you can put your attention. I really thank you for putting it with Boostly. That's it for us for this one. We'll see you on the next one.