Behind the Host with David J Fornelli

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Hi, welcome back to the Boostly podcast, the podcast that gives you the listener, the tools, the tactics, the training and most importantly, the confidence so you can go out there and get yourselves lots of Direct bookings, which is what as hosts we all want to do. We do a miniseries where we dive behind the host, where we interview interesting and successful hosts from all over the world. And today we're joined by David Fornelli. He's the co founder of Napoli Properties and he's done amazing work. He's actually just been a guest on the Bigger Pockets podcast and now he's coming onto the Boosley podcast. So I'm definitely going to go and listen to the Bigger Pockets version of his interview. But uh, you should check out BiggerPockets if you haven't done. But he's a guest on some amazing podcasts. He's done over $7 million worth of his portfolio in just three years and he now has 15 short term rental units. We're going to be talking about boutique hotels, we're going to be talking about financing, and you're going to learn from David's experience during this 20, 25 minute podcast. So sit back, relax, and let's dive in. David, welcome along.

Oh, thanks so much for having me, Liam. It's an honor to be on the show.

Thank you for being here. So I know I've given a bit of kind of like, I guess the juice of the show, but can you tell the listeners what they can expect for the Next sort of 20, 25 minutes from you?

Definitely, definitely. So I actually didn't start off in real estate. My entrance into real estate in the short term rental industry kind of happened through an Instagram ad. But we started off as house flippers in the Los Angeles, California area. That kind of led us into short term rentals and then we eventually acquired a 10 key boutique hotel. And so that's kind of the compressed version of my story as a real estate investor and hospitality host as well.

Nice. Nice. I mean there's, there's a lot of meat on the bone there to, to dig into and there's people who listen to this who are, you know, based all over the world who at some are just getting started. So you know, that is, is going to be amazing to, to dive into this. So I guess one of the questions which I'd love to ask is why are you doing this, this business? Why hospitality?

Yeah, we actually got into hospitality kind of by accident, if I'm being honest, Liam. We, like I said, we started off as house flippers so we would renovate homes and we started off in 2020, very early 2020, and Los Angeles is an extremely competitive house flipping market. And my wife actually had a brilliant idea marketing idea to send out an email to her network asking if anybody had a house that we can flip again. Los Angeles was very competitive and we were running leads and making offers, but it was just so difficult to actually get a deal done. One of her former friends and co workers said, hey, you know what? I have a house that you guys can flip in Joshua Tree, California. And Joshua Tree is about two and a half hours away from Los Angeles. And so we thought, okay, you know, it's far away, but let's try it out. Let's see what happens. So we purchased this home for $200,000, Liam. We put about $55,000 into it, all in withholding costs and all that. It was about $265,000 and we sold it for $410,000. So we made $130,000 profit. The person who we sold it to was a short term rental investor. And that's what got us looking into the idea of hospitality short term rentals, Airbnbs. Because we thought, holy cow, if somebody, a short term rental investor, is willing to pay this much over asking price, there must be something in this whole hospitality short term rental industry that they know that I don't at this point. And so that really opened up our eyes to, you know, short term rentals. And at the time there was, I believe, around 6 to 800 short term rentals in the Joshua Tree area. And now there's about 3,600, a little over 3,600, and just, you know, less than four years. So that was really our entrance into the hospitality field. Wait, if people are able to make this much money, how can we be a part of that and offer some pretty cool experiences along the way?

I love that. And I mean, first of all, curiosity. This is the one thing which anytime I talk to somebody who might want coaching, I need to see that curiosity. And exactly what you had there, where you've done something amazing, you've flipped the house for a fantastic profit. But that bit of curiosity where many people would turn around and just go, well, that's it, you've decided to dive in and find out more about why they were buying that house. And of course, I see now Joshua Tree mean I'm in the uk, right, and I know where Joshua Tree is and I see it all the time on the short term rental sort of groups. So even I'm getting aware of how big that that opportunity is there. So what kind of model you you mentioned you've got kind of a boutique hotel. What kind of model and what does Your business look like. Give me the kind of like, overview of it.

So we're very big on design, Liam, where we emphasize heavily on design and amenities and ensuring that people have a positive experience as soon come on our properties. I like to say that we make properties that not only please the eye, but they appease the soul. Because when you step into a space and it's beautifully designed and it's thoughtfully curated and has good colors and it's neutral, organic, and there's textures, in our opinion, it evokes a certain feel. If you walk into a nightclub and there's lights blaring everywhere and there's loud music and there's flashing lights going on, you're going to feel a certain way. If you walk into a resort, you're going to feel a certain way. So we like people to feel a certain way as soon as they come into our doorsteps. And this is kind of something that we've learned again from the flipping world is like knowing who our target customer is. And we think that's extremely important. And every time we go to design and launch, whether that's a short term rental, a flip or our boutique hotel, we know exactly who the target customer avatar is that we want to approach or that we want to attract. And we design the space according to that. So one thing that we really like to leverage is, you know, organic textures, neutral colors, so that when people come on, they feel, they feel very relaxed, they feel very eased, they feel like they're on vacation. And if we can supplement that with awesome amenities like, you know, yoga rooms and hot tubs and really cool accent walls and really good, you know, hammock village. That's very serene. Serene and very beautiful. And it's overlooking, you know, scenic view. That's. That's who we want. That's who we want in our properties. A person who's looking for that type of experience. That combined with the elevated sort of luxury feel of our properties, we like to, even though they're. They're primarily two and three bedroom houses, we like the idea of less is more in that one of our homes. If it's about 1500 square feet, two bedrooms plus a den, but we capped the maximum occupants at six people. At six persons, far more than six people can fit in that home. But again, we didn't want to kind of shove a bunch of people in there. And this idea of beds and heads is kind of common within the short term rental space. And we wanted to kind of flip that idea on its head because we thought, hey, can we do more with less? And so by executing on a fantastic design, putting, you know, the necessary and luxurious sofas and couches and linens and all that good stuff in there, we want to attract a certain, a certain guest. Hopefully that guest is a bit of an elevated traveler, a guest who has a little bit more money in their pocket, a guest who is looking for a top tier stay. And so long as we can supplement that with excellent customer service, immediate customer service, make sure that we have fully stocked homes, then it's a pretty good model for us. And it's worked for us, like I said, both in the short term rental space and with our boutique hotel.

Nice. I mean, I, I, I just want to pick some of those points up which is that first of all, doing your research and knowing you mentioned you know exactly who your guest avatar is before you even put it on the market, which is, is just so important in any business market research and just knowing where that demand is. But also it sounds to me as though you having this curated style with these natural textures, which is a theme which you see throughout your portfolio means that people understand what your business is about and they, they kind of get that. And because of that it sounds, would I be right in saying that you're able to charge a bit of a premium for, you know, these extra spaces, these amazing amenities like the yoga space and things like that?

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Especially for a two bedroom home which is the most popular within Joshua Tree. A majority of the houses are two bedroom homes. So I actually just looked up some latest numbers from Air DNA and the latest occupancy rate and ADR average day rate in Joshua Tree is a 39% occupancy rate and a 240 ADR. We are at, our portfolio averages around a 71% occupancy rate and our ADR is about $250. So slight higher ADR but far more occupancy with this type of model that we, we feel is very successful.

Yeah, and I mean overall the gross revenue just, you know, like there's a lot of people who, you know, worry too much about one of those metrics. Like they just worry about occupancy or they just worry about adr, but it's the two together, isn't it, that once you've got those to where you want them to be that, you know, as you say, you're outperforming the market there, which is amazing. So that was you. You've told us what the business started like in 2020 and we've got an idea. It's what it looks like now with the short term rental units, the boutique hotel. What's been the most successful wow moment in your opinion? What has been the moment on your journey which you've gone, do you know what? Pinch me. I can't believe we've done this.

Oh, that's an amazing question, Liam. So what's been the most kind of wow kind of pinch me journey? I definitely think launching the 10 key boutique hotel. Um, it, it's just, you know, short term rentals are absolutely fantastic and some of our properties are quite grand on two and a half acres. But launching a hotel is just a little bit of a different caliber. And we intended to launch this hotel as one large short term rental. Initially, my partners shout out to them were absolutely thought, hey, you know, at the time we were operating for Airbnbs. They had a management company of 26. So we thought, hey, let's just operate one giant Airbnb. And, and throughout the construction process, we realized that we'd be leaving a lot of money on the table, so to speak, if we did not operate this like a traditional short term or like a traditional hotel. So we switched to that monoleum and we operate it now like a, an actual hotel where we have two amazing managers on site, we have an assistant manager on site, we have two cleaners on site, and then third, you know, as necessary, we have a handy person on site. So really just entering into the grounds of our Hotel Yara Hotel in Palm Springs, California was a surreal moment because it was like, holy cow. In the, in the last four years, I went from being an archeologist in my previous job, so I have a master's degree in archeology. So I was digging in the dirt, man. I was looking for artifacts and ancient sites. And then, you know, just four years later, walking into a hotel that I own that was or partly owned, that's absolutely spectacular, that has amazing reviews on Google, that that was able to build a nice social media following. That really was the kind of pinch me moment where I was like, oh my gosh, like, hard work, dedication, consistency, this does pay off. And I was kind of lounging, looking at the pool for our hotel and I had my feet up and I was answering my Airbnb messages and I just felt so grateful because I was like, holy cow, I'm working right now. You know what I mean? Like, I'm at this beautiful place that my team was able to build and, and I'm working. And so that was really kind of the, the moment recently where I was like, wow, like, you know what, man, good job.

Like, yeah, really good.

You did okay.

Celebrate these wins. And I can actually picture it, you know, I can picture it just going, you know what? There must been a moment where sip of the drink and like, wow, this is, this is epic. So what are some of the things that took you from that first stage where you were flipping at the time to now where you're sitting by the pool at the boutique hotel you own? What were some of the kind of moments which got you there? So this is, is more around. Is it the financing? Is it the, is it just the ability to find good deals or is it the, the interior design? What, what are some of those kind of moments?

Yeah, that's a great question. Is again. So I think the first one is definitely mentorship, because in my opinion, mentorship compresses time. If we can learn from a mentor who's done it before, then we don't necessarily have to be in the school of hard knocks for so long because we can follow in the footsteps of someone who's done it already. After mentorship, we learn a couple of things. One of those things is definitely the financing piece. So the $7 million portfolio that me and my team have been able to build has primarily been using other people's money. Like I said, I was an archaeologist, man. Like I was, I was in the dirt, digging in the dirt, looking for ancient sites. I wasn't, I didn't come from a high paying job. I didn't come from having a high wage job. So learning how to leverage other people's money and raise millions of dollars was a skill that we learned again from mentorship and that has been instrumental in being able to scale to this, you know, 15 unit portfolio that we, we have now. The next piece of that is understanding that real estate is a team sport. And so the reason why our properties look amazing is because we were able to hire professional designers. And it was, you know, that's not my, my skill set, My skill set is not within design, but I do know there are people out there who do have that skill set. So by teaming up with these folks who are far better at that kind of category than I am, that's been able to, to be another really kind of, kind of like a paradigm shift or another moment where I was like, holy cow. Like, this is how people get far. They do it together. They don't, they don't go alone. So really those, those few moments of just continuing to invest in mentorship we still, I still invest in a lot of mentorship. I believe in 2022 we had, at that point we had spent over a hundred thousand dollars in coaching and mentorship and just learning. I consider myself a lifelong learner. And then that kind of allowed us to be able to use and leverage other people's money, which was another huge paradigm shift. Because with leveraging other people's money, Liam, the biggest thing that I learned was we're not asking anybody for anything when we're pitching the use of private money. We're providing an opportunity for individuals to be able to earn double digit returns passively, which is amazing because it's an opportunity that's backed by a real asset, which is real estate. It's not like stocks and crypto. That's another moment that I had where I was like, oh, I get it now. Like, there was a mindset shift where I felt confident in bringing these opportunities to individuals to be able to build their passive income stream. And then again, like I said, the last moment was really just like realizing that real estate is a team sport. One of our properties, I love saying this, I love throwing this out. There is actually an international award property based on its design. So our designer, Yahida Familia, she submitted this, she designed her property, submitted it, and it won an international award. So that was another moment where I was like, holy cow. Like we have a award winning property, which is a pretty cool, pretty cool mark to put on a resume.

100%. You know what I love about entrepreneurship is this stuff didn't exist before you and the other co founder, you know, like as in the people involved, like say the people around will it into existence. Right. And you know that award came from you and your team picking the right person and the combined, you know, how they got on with everybody else on part of the team. And ultimately you create out of nothing something which is amazing. And like you say, people are then profiting on returns on their investments and you've just created this whole kind of ecosystem which, which wasn't there before, which, which is amazing. So. And the other thing I wanted to pick up on from, you know, the steps to success that you mentioned is the mentorship. Now I spoke to somebody earlier on today and I mentioned that I've paid $1,000 per hour for mentors in my time and I'm somebody who doesn't. I'm very wary about paying the wrong people for, for the wrong mentorship, but for definitely, yeah, I mean, you got to be careful out there, right? Social media especially. But paying the right people for the right help really does fast track your journey. And um, this is what I the, the more that I find people who I'm happy to, to to pay and and be mentored by, the more my mindset shifts and the more opportunities which are unlocked every single time. And the network as well. And you get the network alongside it.

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Your. The steps that you mentioned there. Is there any kind of tech or anything which has helped you from a tech standpoint within your business, be it the boutique hotel or the short term rentals? Let's dive into the tech side of things. What do you use and why?

Yeah, that's. That's another great question, Liam. So the tech for our short term rentals, we have a pretty robust tech stack at this point. The software is fully right, Price Labs, Breezeway, Lynx. There's many different softwares that we use within the short term. Rentals to just help automate it. Because this is the business can be overwhelming at times. You know, we all know this within the short term rental space. And so the more that I can automate but also continue to add that kind of sort of a concierge bit, that sort of personalized bit, so it's not, it doesn't seem so automated that that's been absolutely instrumental and that's for our short term rental side of things. Right. And then obviously we use direct booking website because Mark is so big on direct booking and he's the one who kind of programmed it into our minds like, hey, we need a direct booking website. So thankfully we have one that's offered through hostfully which a small percentage of our bookings come from. But we are utilizing direct booking. I get those direct bookings come by way of a CRM customer relationship manager. So anytime people come to our property they have to fill out a pre arrival form in which I gather guests emails and. And then all of that gets entered into our CRM. And then thanks to ChatGPT, another piece of tech, I've developed a 12 to 15 touch campaign just advertising different areas about Joshua Tree. Joshua Tree is the desert. It's a high desert. It's great for stargazing. So I have one email that goes out that says, hey, thanks for visiting us. We have another couple of properties here. Here's a discount code if you want to stay with us. Then the next email is like, hey, here are five tips to stargazing in Joshua Tree. Hey, here are the best times to come Stargazing Joshua Tree. And again, that was all built out using ChatGPT. So that's the tech. And then ChatGPT got me 80% of the way there. And then I went in and kind of, you know, put more personal touch on there so it doesn't seem so like a robot created it. That's our short term rental side of things. And then sort of tech and people. For the boutique hotel that my partners operate, another husband and wife team shout out to Moody and Katie. They're amazing. They use a system called Think reservations which is amazing. Majority of our bookings for the hotel actually come through the direct. Our direct website y palmsprings.com which has been absolutely fantastic that we're able to kind of circumvent some OTAs and just go direct and then not so much tech but like the person behind the tech was really our branding person for Yara Hotel. He's the one who kind of ran with our branding theme. Created a very simple yet elegant and beautiful branding scheme that he was enabled to put all over the website and then that is supplemented again with beautiful photos. So the photographer who's able to kind of go in and sort of edit the photos and put the kind of filters and things like that that we want the certain aesthetic to come across for the website. So it's that combination again, like I said, the branding, the photographer and then putting that all on the website, that is cohesive. It's beautiful. It showcases our hotel as best as possible. It's able to kind of capture people's emails through the website itself. And then. Yeah, that's, I would say that that's, it's pretty robust for, for tech.

That is, yeah, that is a good list of tech. And for everybody who you know, I'd advise everyone listening to this to, to listen into that tech stack because you've got something there which will manage the booking, something which will manage the cleaners. You're talking about direct bookings, which of course we here at Boostly absol. You've been active with marketing, you know, like, which is just so important and you're utilizing stuff which didn't exist three years ago. This is the difference which is going to be for people who do super well in the next few years is utilize all the tools to make things quicker and easier. Getting at 80% and then finishing it off with that personal touch is just amazing. So I really like to hear that. One of the themes I'm seeing throughout your business, David, is that you found good people, you know, you found good people to help you along the way. What advice would you have for hosts listening to this? Who going, well, you know, I'd love to get an interior designer. I just don't know where to find one. I need a branding person, I don't know where to find one. Or I need to get a mentor, I don't know where to find one. How do you find good people in your journey?

I don't want this to sound too woo woo, but it's kind of a feeling, if I'm being honest. It begins with a feeling and when you actually meet with these people, obviously you have to vet them, right? You have to go through and you have to see their pedigree and you have to go through and see their portfolio and see what work they have done to see if that fits with the vision that you have in your mind. But as you're going through and essentially checking the princes and maybe contacting people that they've worked with in the past, listen to yourself like, does this fit with what my vision is? Because even all know what our vision is and it's up to us to be able to communicate that to these people and then hire, you know, the designer or the brander or the mentor. So after looking through again, their portfolio or maybe in the past, do you feel like you're a good fit for that individual and vice versa? If that person is kind of trying to mold you into their system and they're not really listening what you have to offer specifically for a designer or a brander, then maybe that's not the right fit. And I'll give you a small example. We were when we, when our team was searching for designers in the Palm Springs space. Palm Springs, California is where boutique hotel is located. It's very pink flamingo with zebra wallpaper and palm trees and stuff, which is great. It works amazing for that market. There's fantastic places that absolutely crush. But we didn't want that. Like I said, our style is very neutral. It's very organic, very textured. And we met with these one set of designers local to the Palm Springs area and they made a comment, they said, oh, you don't want to do another beige hotel. You definitely don't want to do another beige hotel. And we were like thinking in our head, like, that's exactly what we want to do. We want to execute on a brilliantly designed beige hotel. So that didn't feel right for us as a team. We all got together and we're like, you know what? They're not the right fit for us because they're not listening to what we want through, through our branding and through our marketing, through the aesthetic. Now that's a little bit different for like a mentor. For mentor. I would, I let the mentors kind of take the reins and, and I let them be the professionals that they are. So I want to make sure that I'm a good fit to be in their mentorship program. But it's the same thing where, where I would still vet their portfolio. I would still look at their past, what actually accomplished, and do they have the thing that I want to get? Are they at the next level that I want to be able to achieve? If they are, then I think that's a great fit and it would be a no brainer.

Nice. I really like that. And the theme I'm kind of getting is know, know who you are and what you need, you know, from that and see if you're a good fit. You know, that, that just Makes absolute sense. Especially, I mean I've got a business partner and we are polar opposites in terms of how we operate, but that is what works together because we're aiming for the same vision. And um, that definitely speaks to me.

Your answer there One, one thing I said I may, if I may, Liam, is you know, the idea of like the visionary and the integrator, right. If two people have in a partnership specifically, not so much a mentorship or anything like that, but if two people have too many complimentary skill sets, then there's too many cooks in that kitchen for that, that skill set. So by finding people who have different skill sets than you, you're able to kind of then share the responsibilities a lot better. And a person can be the visionary and a person can be the integrator or the strateg executor. Right. And that's when brilliant partnerships kind of come together. Just like you were saying.

100%. Absolutely agree. That's, that is finding that is, is so important. It has been for my journey and, and I know for those listening to this, it will be as well. What do you think the future of hospitality looks like? What, what do you think is going to be. Obviously you, you've seen things from 2020 to now, but what do you think things are going to look like, say in another five years time? What is going to be some of the signs of like success at the time, in your opinion?

You know, I could only really speak to the US Market because that's where I'm heavily involved in, is the United States market. And I'm unsure if this model applies to markets elsewhere such as the uk, Australia or South America or something like that. But in my opinion, the future of hospitality, at least for the independent, more independent style operators, leaders, is really going to be in the experiences space. Taking a playbook from, let's say New York City, for example. New York City last year enacted restrictions on short term rentals where something like 30,000 listings were wiped off the face of the Airbnb platform. And that is a very metro market where you go and the appeal for that area is maybe the museums or the tourism that happens within the big city, but the United States is in general is kind of experiencing a housing shortage. So to look at these big cities and say, hey, we should put a vacation rental or a short term rental in these big cities where people, citizens need homes is not a good recipe for success in my opinion. So I believe for the independent operator, within short term rentals, within vacation rentals, the Future is bright for the experiences space. The future is bright in areas where they have heavily recreation areas, right? National parks, state parks, where there's a cool town, there's a unique town, there's a lake, there's a national forest. There's something to do for people because these areas tend to be a lot more rural where not a lot of people need to live and work in these areas. The price points of these areas are generally much cheaper because again, people aren't necessarily going here to live and work. So I truly believe that in the United States moving forward over the next five years, the short term rental industry is going to continue to thrive in markets like Joshua Tree where there is a huge national park that draws over 3 million visitors a year and there's no hotels in that area. So where are people going to stay at? They're looking to stay at short term rentals, at vacation rentals. And as long as we can do things like continue to improve the amenities, continue to offer a great experience that's equivalent to what hotels are able to offer, then we should be able to do okay, in my opinion. I think it's all, it's up to all of us as hosts to really step our game up if we want to continue within this space. Because hotels, they got their game on lock in my opinion. Right. They have, they're kind of the, the corporate kind of business in a box where they've been doing this for a long time. And if we want to compete with them, we have to continue to model certain things like superior customer, offering an amazing and consistent place to go to and vacation and visit, offering top amenities. And as long as we can do that in the strategic places like I mentioned, where there is a big draw to recreation, a big draw to hiking or boating or being at a lake or something, then I think people will continue to drive over the next five years.

You're 100% right. I completely agree that the attention to the service levels is going to be so important for anyone who's going to carry on being successful. And like you say, I, I just love the take that you've, you've put on that of what is going to carry on being popular. You, you literally can't argue with it. It's. I think you're absolutely right. So I know there's so much more that we could dive into and in a moment we're going to be sharing the details, David, as to, to how we can come find out more. I guess just to squeeze every last drop of, of value out of this is I've really enjoyed this. What would you say to that person? So there's somebody listening to this right now who needs to just do perhaps one thing. What, what one thing did you do really well that you would encourage everybody else listening to this to go off and make sure they're doing their short term rental business or hospitality business or property business.

Do more with less. And I touched on it a little bit earlier in the episode, but do more with less. You don't necessarily need 100 units to be able to have a great portfolio and live a good life. You don't necessarily need to have a huge, you know, large home with six bedrooms and castle style architecture to be able to draw people in and have a good vacation rental. I'm big on this idea of sometimes scaling means improving your existing portfolio rather than going out there and trying to take on 50 units, which can be quite detrimental in my opinion for some people, especially if they are not a good operator or if they're not capable of operating at the caliber needed in order to be able to successfully run a 50 unit portfolio. I think a lot of times, Liam, we all see it on Instagram and social media and there's people who are able to achieve remarkable success and have 60 units and 130 units, which I applaud those individuals very much. I'm not discounting what they do, but in reality, majority of Us don't need 120 units. Sometimes you can live a very good life off 15 units, off 20 units and being able to just really optimize and maximize what you have instead of just constantly going out there and growing, growing, growing.

It's great advice, absolutely great advice. So there's going to be people who want to reach out to you. David, how is best to get in touch with you?

Instagram is usually the easiest way. Right. Majority of us are on Instagram. So I'm @DavidJfornelli on Instagram. And then also check out our hotel Yara Palm Springs. It's at Y A R A Palm Springs. Those are the two easiest places to get a hold of me.

Awesome. And of course they'll be in the show notes. However you consume in this piece of media, have a look at the show notes. Go and check out those links for, for David. So David, was there anything we missed along the way?

No, no, this was amazing. There's so much more we can unpack here. There's questions I want to ask you Liam, but you know, maybe, maybe we can. Maybe you can have me back and we can do a part two or see where I'm at in a year from now. See where you're at a year from now. That'd be great.

100. I'd really enjoy that and it's exciting and I've got to say, I could listen to you, David. You've got a very captivating story and, and, and, you know, tone and, and ideas around hospitality. So the idea of the natural textures that the entire story matches. There's a great book to go out there and check out called Donald Miller by Donald Miller called Story Brand and I can see how the architecture. Sorry, the. What was it? The. You said digging in the mud.

The archaeology.

Archaeology, that's it. Forgot the word. But the archaeology ties in with the kind of natural textures and the kind of finding the right vibe for people and, and all that stuff. And it's just, it shows. And I'm a firm believer in that the vibe attracts the tribe. So if you put an out into the world, what you want to get back, then, you know, it sounds as though you're doing that. So thank you so much for coming on behind the Host on the Boostly podcast. Thank you to you for listening to this on the Boostly podcast. We know there's lots of places you can put your attention. Really thank you for putting it with us here at Boostly. If you want to carry on the conversation, you can do so if you go on Facebook, search groups and you can put the hospitality community and there's a great big community on there where you can come and join for free and just talk about anything hospitality related. So thank you so much. That's it from me and thank you, David. Feel free to say bye to everyone.

Thanks for having me on, Liam, it was a pleasure and hope you guys got some value from this.

Thank you so much. See you on the next one.