Behind the Host with Drew Hittner

Hey, everybody. Today we are talking about house hacking, which is a very popular strategy both in the UK and in the US and also how you get lending to do house hacking and just generally Airbnb and lending in general. And this is one of the things that many people talk about. They go, I want to get into short term rental. I just don't have the money to do so necessarily now. So what we're going to be doing is diving behind the host with a very special guest who's going to be talking us through the subject today. And if you haven't heard of the Boostly podcast before, or this is your first time listening, what we do is we give hosts the tools, the tactics, the training, and most importantly, the confidence to go out there and get more bookings. And we do a mini series where we dive into a host's journey, which is exactly what we're doing today to help us answer that question. My name is Liam Carolan and today we're going behind the host with Drew Hitler and he is from Host Loan. So you can go and check out Host Loan Co. But before you check that out, let's get Drew's story and find out much more about how he does his house hacking and some of the truly amazing tips. Because he's got YouTube channel, he's working with Rob Absolo, who is Rob built. And yeah, he's just. It's going to be awesome. So let's dive in. Drew, do you mind giving yourself an introduction where your business is in the world and anything else you'd like to share?

Absolutely. Well, first and foremost, Liam, thank you so much for you and Bruce Lee for having me as part of the podcast today and 37 years old, live in Arizona, and I've been. I don't know if this is a bad word or not, but I've been an Airbnb super host since 2016 and also doing some direct bookings throughout that time as well. And, you know, a quick elevator pitch of how I introduce myself my company to others is don't roll the dice with your lender if they're not an Airbnb super host. So I have had a major focus on the type of lending to help serial real estate investors, because after you get a couple mortgages in America and other places too, it becomes more difficult. So I've tried to just be a professional problem solver in that field. So how to make it just as easy as the first one for the 5th, 10th and 20th. So we got a great team here. Everybody on my team all the owns a rental or short term rental as well too. So we all talk the same, the same lingo.

That's something very close to Boostly's heart. Literally everybody who works in and around Bruce Lee is, is involved in hospitality in some way. And you did mention, as an Airbnb host, we, we always say, hey, call yourself a short term rental host because it stops promoting Airbnb and gets you more, more direct bookings. But how did you get started? So I definitely want to dive into the house hacking side of things. But take us back to how you got started and how you became a super host and how many units you've got now.

Yeah, so it's a great question. So I got started. You know, everything in life, I think, happens and revolves around a compelling event. So I've had a couple of these in my journey in 2016, or maybe it was 20. It was 2015. It was the end of 2015, I had a merger or an acquisition with my W2 or day job, my 9 to 5. And at that point it didn't take long to figure out that I just took a pay cut. But they still want to keep me. And so I had to do one of two things. I had to, in my head, I had to either put my truck on Uber, which they wouldn't accept. Airbnb was a platform that looked like a side gig source of income for me. So that was it. Moved out of my apartment whenever it rented. I stayed with my girlfriend and I was blown away by. After just two weekends, it paid me to live there now. So I just had to sacrifice a little bit to put myself ahead. And then at that point I just got, you know, I play golf. So you get bit with a golf ball. You play a lot of golf. But I got bit with the real estate bug at that moment. And then that was just the snowball that kept building, that evolved later into a lending career and business as well.

Nice. Nice. And I mean, that brings us nicely on to. Not everybody will have heard of what house hacking is. So just explain what house hacking is. And obviously you've demonstrated how it is used. But. Yeah, why is that a good, a good strategy for people to consider when starting off?

Yeah. So the one thing that I heard from somebody that I look up to is David Green. He's the host of Biggerpockets. I know he always says it is real estate investing with training wheels. So. But there's a multiple different facets, right. You can buy a house that has a business underneath you. You rent out the business that helps cover the mortgage or your housing expense. You can buy a five bedroom home and rent every single one of those bedrooms out. That's going to help with your housing expense. I just, I didn't know it was house hacking at the time. I just knew I needed to save money and so I thought just by lending my apartment to somebody else for the weekend that that would make life easier for me. And I didn't find out until about two or three years ago that's actually called rental arbitrage. So I just thought I was subleasing my apartment at the time. But that's house hacking, right? You could, I mean, technically I was apartment hacking, but it's any way that you can generate income off of a property that you live at, either pay you money to live there, or just kind of offset your, your housing expense.

And sticking with the house hacking. When you first start to do it in the early days, what was some of the, I guess some of the challenges? Like, I mean, what do you do with your stuff when you, when you go to, you know, stay somewhere else? Like how do you manage that with.

A backpack, you know, you know, and a, and a, and all my stuff behind a locked door as well too, that, you know, that was when I probably did 30, 40 stays and I just knew I wanted to buy a house. And then, you know, the challenges I ran into after that was buying as much home as I could back, you know, at a later point now because I'm like, if it's going to work with an apartment, this is going to work with a nice house too. And so then I bought as much home as I could because I'd rather have an asset that appreciates at $500,000 in value than a hundred thousand. And so like this, I just knew in my head this is the way. And so that's what I did. And everybody told me not to do that. So that was a challenge. I was like, well, maybe I just don't tell everybody what I'm doing. So that way that leaves the negative energy out of my life. But you know, one was trying to hide all my stuff in a backpack and moving my girlfriends. And then at a later stage a challenge was, you know, keeping the right energy around me whenever I was deciding to make a business move or try to improve my life. Where, you know, in 2018, if you're doing, if you're a short term renter, everybody's telling you that's a fad, you're crazy. What are you thinking? You spend your time doing something else. But I just, you know, kept, kept plowing away on my path.

Never listen to the naysayers, they say isn't it you know like at the end of the day stick with it and it's paid off. So just remind us what, what does the business look like now? How many units do you look after and then we'll segue into the, the lending side of things.

Yeah. So right now I have seven units across three states that I proudly like to say I self manage between three and four hours a week. Right now one of those units just had a major flood three weeks ago so I'm fighting that. But my team is, has been amazing that I wouldn't be able to do it without them. I've been upped to as many as 14 units. I sold some in 2021 and the beginning part of 2022. I've done the bursters, the burrs, the long term holds. But then I eventually got up to about, you know I was up to 15 but some one of those was a long term. So I had 14 listings at one point that I was on pace to do right around 690, 700,000. But I got rid of some of them because I didn't have the right team in place. And so then I just kept the ones that I really, really like, got rid of some of the others and then with some of those proceeds what I did was snowball that into my next big venture which is the you know, short term, vacation friendly, you know, I guess mortgage company is what you could call it post loans.

Nice. So I mean that brings us nicely on to post loan. But just before we segment into them, what would you say to somebody who's looking to be able to spend the same sort of time on their business per week as you're spending their while managing successful properties across, you know, a number of different states. What's the, what's the secret sauce?

Find the right friends, change your circle of friends. Unfortunately that never feels comfortable to say. But you know the most successful people I know have multiple businesses. You know Rob, you mentioned his name earlier. He comes to mind because if you have the vision, you're, you know, I know Rob's a pioneer, then other people are just going to, that's an exciting journey for a lot and if you are good at forecasting a vision then everybody wants to be part of that growth. So I think you know that's, that's the first thing that comes to mind. I think that's the most important.

I love that, yeah, I completely agree. I think back to my previous career and the people I was hanging around with versus the kind of levels of conversation that you get to have with, with like you say, pioneers and people who are pushing not just their business but the industries forward. Which is, which is amazing and exciting too, isn't it? So that's cool. So Host Loan, talk us through. What is Host Loan? How did you come up with the. The idea for it and what does it do?

So Host Loan is. Well, I would, when somebody asked me, drew, what, what do you do or how, how can you help me? When I talk to a client, it's I say don't roll the dice. Which you're your mortgage broker, mortgage lender than an Airbnb super host. And you know there's all types of mortgages out there, right? And there's all types of mortgage companies out there. I just chose this focus, hyper focus on one niche. There's reverse mortgages, there's government loans, there's non qm, there's hard money, there's private money. I just chose to focus on the product that would best fit me. And so I'm a host and I did loans. So there, there come with the name, right? And you know, it's other people that are just as smart. It's not smarter than me say the same thing. If you can find a problem and then create in any fashion a way to solve some of that or all of that problem, you're going to have business. And being in the government loan section for so many years, before I started Host Loan, I knew that if somebody had two or three mortgages on their credit report or then we get that fourth one was going to be more work than the first three that they did all combined. And so like, how do I find a solution to that? And I was able to, and that's why we've been able to grow. And then, you know, just, you know, working with Rob, helping the host campers, things like that, just sharing the information that I have with others is, has been a way that we've been able to grow.

If you're struggling on how to get direct bookings and overwhelmed on where to start, then I recommend you go and book in a call with Boostly and our team right now. We can walk you through exactly what we're offering, how we can help you and give you a portfolio of websites that we have worked with that are matching not only your niche, but could be in your location as well. Boostly has helped over 2000 hospitality businesses all over the world, including increase their direct bookings. And if you are interested then all you need to do is go to Boostly. B O o s t l y.co.uk forward/call and book in an appointment with one of our sales team.

That's amazing. And like you say there is specializing is going down into that sort of niche and to really find something which other hosts need. And you know that because you needed it, you know, like it's something which you know that you need at the start, which is, which is so true. And do you find that the opportunities. I mean this one thing that I always get told people are there's not many deals around anymore. Do you obviously you get to see some of these deals that people are looking for lending on, presumably. What would you say to somebody who says, hey, there's no deals available in the market anymore.

I just had this call today. Can you unpack that a little bit more for me? That's what I would say to them. Because we're in a society what grabs everyone's attention right where it's. That was a super short answer. Sorry about that. So let me, I'll unpack that answer. But so if, if you pull up your phone, you turn on the TV, pull up YouTube, whatever it is, what does everybody want to talk about? Bad news. So higher interest rates, that scares people, but it scares people that don't go a level deeper. And so somebody that I talked to today, you know, they had challenging credit to say the least. And they're like, what's the interest rates? I was like well, what do you see right now? And she's like, I see like sixes and sevens, like you're going to be above that. And she's like well this is not going to work. I'm like well what do you mean? And so it's just taking that question one level deeper. Right. And so if I talk to a hundred people, maybe I should let you guess this would be a good piece of trivia. I mean you would be surprised how many people don't have a pro forma ready. They might have a gross income number that somebody gave them, but they, a lot of times they didn't extrapolate this data themselves. So I'm like well, what do you mean? So now I pull up another monitor, I pull up an Excel spreadsheet which is a cap rate calculator or a short term vacation rental cash flow calculator and you'd be surprised. What do you think the utilities are? They don't know well, what about the, what do you, what do you put in here for capital expenditures? What's your expense? What you think, like cable and landscaping and pool guy will be how much you're going to spend on firewood, you know, and you. And so then what keeps me up at night, Liam, is if I help somebody with a home loan and I call them six, seven months later if rates go down and ask them how they're doing and they're not performing well because I'm a host, you know, So I work with my bookkeeping team and my accounting team to make sure we count every penny in incoming or outgoing money. So that way we know exactly where we stand. And, you know, it's just like I feel like with short term vacation rentals, Airbnb was a click, big word. So they hop in an Uber, somebody brings up Airbnb, then that's what they want to invest in. And so I just want to help them make sure they're making a sound investment. And that's why I say don't roll the dice with your mortgage broker if they're not a super host, because more times than not they'll give me a property. I'm like, you're expecting to make this. I don't see it. You tell me. And just, just helping them make it.

A friend, that makes sense. And, and definitely from a host's point of view, I mean, it just makes sense, right? Because the only person who knows all of the costs within short term rental is a super host or host themselves, isn't it? So that just makes sense. And this, this just brings us on something which often we see that short term rental owners, they're often doing this as a side gig or this isn't their primarily, you know, primary sort of focus, but ultimately you've mentioned it, that you just, it's so important to know the numbers, isn't it? And to know literally every single number on them. So let me put this question to you for somebody who might be listening to this, who's thinking, hey, I'm going to invest in my first short term rental. What are some of the hidden costs that really they should be looking at and what tools out there can help them kind of understand the numbers, you know, of, of the short term rental? How do they know something's going to be a good deal before they purchase it?

Due diligence, you know, and just, I think spending more money up front is going to keep your capital expense lower. I think a lot of people that are serial investors understand that. But don't put the Ikea and Facebook furniture in there. You know, spend a little extra money and then, because if you put that kind of furniture in there and maybe you have some annoying neon signs like me in there that might attract a different crowd than what you want. But if you put all, you know, just designer or one or two level three levels up type of furniture you're going to bring, you're going to bring in a different type of client or customer and, you know, so damages, fighting with, if you're still working with some of those OTAs, you're going to fight with their type of insurance coverage. This isn't going to give you what you put into the home. So there's going to be costs there if there is damage. But you can weed all that out with good, good management. And then, you know, most people aren't accounting for, like I mentioned, some of them. Most, they're just not accounting for what they're going to pay the pool guy, what they're going to pay their property management. Sometimes even they're just looking at the gross number. That gross number is so big, but that gets compartmentalized pretty far down if you start adding in the right expenses. So, you know, landscaping, pool, firewood, you know, how, what are you doing as far as, like, how are you paying for all the disposables and the linens and all that kind of stuff as well too? So. And then just, you know, make sure you, you have a cleaner that's on board. I'm willing to pay extra because they are like a motherly figure to that home for me. And it just, you know, those kind of, you can cheap out on that, which I've done and it's cost me money. So, you know, those are the things that I just, it just comes off so naturally for me because I've, you know, had listened to somebody else. That's why it's happened. The right ring of friends is important. Learn from my struggles. If they're saying don't go and it's a red light, then just don't do it.

100. The. The cleaners are the MVPs, aren't they? Business. And somebody actually said on one of the podcasts that they are your kind of most valuable people. And in the end you end up sacking them, you know, like firing them one way or another. Whether or not the, you know, you end up with new cleaning teams or they get too big, you know, at some stage the relationship parts ways. But, you know, treat them very well at the end of the Day the cleaners. So what would you say are some of the pieces of tech or the things within your business, which is really helped you along the way?

Well, here's a couple Rank Breeze Price Labs, Guesty and, you know, Guest, he's got a facet to it that's interesting, too, with their, their direct booking. And that's how I've gotten my toes in the water with just trying to get away from some of the OTAs. But I love data just naturally because I'm, I'm in lending, so I'm always looking at how it all comes together from that standpoint. So, like, look at something like rankbreeze always just. That's not everybody's cup of tea. But I love that. And those are just solid tools. You know, I think if I'm starting out today, I'm probably not using really any of those besides like Air DNA or maybe the Price Price Labs marketplace. So that way I can, you know, it'll help myself underwrite the deal and make sure it's going to perform. But, you know, for a beginner out there, I would just go with what Airbnb says, you know, or go with what your gut says or go with what VRBO says or some of these other OTAs for pricing and stuff. And then just, you know, maybe get some friends in your circle to help you with the messaging. And then if you're going straight to direct booking, then you got to build a site, you got to get your Google reviews up, right? And so just come up with a good business plan of how you're going to handle it before you delegate, eliminate and automate all that stuff. With all that tech, I think there's a time and place for it, but just jump in the weeds and, you know, see, you do teach, so do it yourself, then teach some of your cool teammates. And then, you know, they're going to help you support that business.

Nice. And what would you say to yourself if you could go back to 2018? What advice would you have yourself at the start of the journey?

More, faster, sooner? You know, what's the worst thing that can happen? That's what I always think now, because truly, it's nothing. I mean, everybody's like, if this thing doesn't work, like. But what's really the worst thing that could happen? Like, you know, there's another clickbaity word is Airbnb. And it's. But those are all the people that are on the wrong side that they just don't care. They don't have a studio as nice as yours, Liam. Like if they're putting half that work right into how they're going to design a stay for an on or off platform guest that they're going to host, they're going to continue to be successful.

Definitely. Definitely. And you mentioned obviously surround yourself with great people and you've mentioned some of the good softwares that you use. Where would you recommend for people listening to this to go and check out what resources have either helped you or ones which you'd say, hey, you know, if you're looking to really find out this information, go check out this book, this podcast, you know, this training program. Who would you recommend in terms of resources?

I think there's two that come to mind for me. Host camp that Rob Build runs is amazing for beginners. You got a little bit more experience or you just want a different, you know, different opinion now. Mike Sjogren with Short Term Rental Secrets is is big as well. Bill Faith talks a lot about, you know, landing pages and other ways to market Besides using the OTAs. There's a handful of know always look at that as you know I play, I mentioned I play golf. So it's like you're going to get better just going out there and carving up the course or you're going to get better if you have somebody, somebody there along the way. And so all that makes sense. But it's you know, if you're looking for free stuff like I got a, I got the short term rental cash flow calculator at Host Loans website, Host Loan back co you can download it for free. There's a small little partnership document in there as well too. So it's just super simple names here, percentages there, duties and delegations here. So that and I've used that with one of my friends. So it's you just keep things super simple and just pick a clear and concise goal and just bulldoze towards that and then once you turn that over across the finish line then move to the next step and house hacking is a great way to get all that done with training wheels on.

Quick break from the podcast to let you know that the two boostly books that we brought out, the book Direct Playbook and the book Direct Blueprint are two of the top rated and the best selling in the hospitality category on Amazon for just two pounds. You can grab both of those books right now. The foundations and the structures that you need to put in place is in the blueprint and then for 101 marketing tactics that is in the playbook. So Go and grab a copy on Amazon now. Just type in book Direct Playbook or the book Direct Blueprint, and we'll see you on the other side.

I really like how I started off, obviously, with, with the house hacking, and that's what's built initial cash flow. You know, you're then able to purchase do it more faster, you know, sort of like you say, looking back, you do it faster and, you know, more as well. And that's brought you onto this host loan, which is. Is, you know, equally. I can see it going really well. What. What would you say has been the biggest wow moment for you of your journey?

Man, I just, I really love, like, I love whenever I'm able to teach somebody something. And, you know, like, that's why I was so pat. That's why I'm so passionate about the lending side of the business. Because as a host, I love the hosting business because you can create such a good team that allows you to give your time or give you back your time. And so what I do at that time now is I like teaching people. And a lot of people don't think these loan products, they think if they live in Canada or they live across the pond where you're at, there's not a loan they can get in the United states that's like 25% down. Well, that's just not true. You can. And so whenever you teach somebody that likes the big wow moment for them, so if they're excited, then that makes me happy because, like, you know, it's just. It's fun whenever you feel like you have some knowledge. And, like, for me, like, I'm basically a college dropout. You know, it took me six years to graduate community college in the Midwest, and that was an associate's degree. And I built, you know, almost a $700,000 business in less than half that time just hosting. So it's, you know, if I can, man, if I could teach that college course, then I think, you know, my path in college would have been worth it. But just, you know, I wasted all that time trying to learn something, and I'm like, man, how do I just give back to other people so they don't have to go through that same wasted time feeling that I have? So those are my wow moments when the light bulb goes off for somebody else.

Like it. I like it a lot. What does the future hold for your business growth?

Were just in. You know, it almost gives me cold chills saying it, but I have a lot of really close friends, you know. Right. Because this business is, you're in the trenches with people. It's, you know, whenever you're buying a home, depending on if you're a serial real estate investor or not, a lot of times it's the biggest purchase you'll ever make. Most more times than not. And so, you know, the people that are out there that need help are really relying on a, on a good set of, you know, loan officers or processes or underwriters to get it done. And so that team and family in just feeling of, I'm trying to think of the word here, but just camaraderie, right. Is built really strong over the years. And there was a study I think two months ago by Housing Wire that said 51% of real estate professionals are out of the industry completely a different business compared to 2021 because rates have went up. And so like for me to get on here and just like I see growth in the future, you know, I just wish I could bring all my friends with me. Unfortunately that's not what can happen but you know, that's, we're in an each market and there's a lot of people that have questions and problems and that's to solve the problem. And if we do that, we're going to have growth in our future.

Nice. Thank you, thank you for that. So as we come towards the end of these, we love to just do a couple of quick fire, light hearted, fun questions. Can be short or as long answers as you like. But what would you recommend for after you've, you know, you've done the host loan, you've, you've done the hosting sort of that. How do you relax? What, what movies or TV series do you watch and you recommend everybody check out?

Right now I'm watching some of the NBA playoffs. We watched the US And I don't know when this podcast is going to come out. We watched the US Mexico game last night, but my favorite time is just to get out there and, and walk 18, you know, listen to the nature looking up, take taking the smell of the fresh cut grass and you know, just that if you're out there with some good friends talking business and just enjoying yourself, that's great. I really look forward to our weekends when me and my lovely fiance Tanya can just sit next to each other and read books for yeah you know, maybe an hour, give or take what day it is. But that's. And I'm going to be looking forward to being at that here really soon too. So I'm like 25 days or 27 days is our due date, so I'm going to have that to look forward to as well.

Mega congratulations from. From everybody listening as well.

That's.

It's going to be a cool. That's a journey in itself. So what is your favorite social media channel and why?

Bigger pockets. So that's, that's what got me started. You know, I was listening to some, some ebooks and then I found podcast a long time ago and one of my friends turned me on to that. Like you'd be really interested in this and that just. That was a shiny object for a really long time and it still is.

So it's very. I mean even I listen to it and I'm based in the uk, so yeah, fantastic podcast.

I spend way more time on mine right now than I do that one. Just trying to make it happen as good as their channel. But.

And the question we always love to. To end with is, is there a mantra or a saying that really resonates with you?

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Just stop fucking thinking. Take action.

Love it.

What's the worst thing that can happen? You know, and usually it's not that bad if you really go deep on what's the worst thing that can happen. And if you're scared of that, there's always some action you can take through to peel that back more.

So true. So true. So I'm going to throw the mic open. Drew, how can we find out more about your. Where should we go and check out you mentioned podcast. I know you've got YouTube, so yeah, let on us. How can we find out more?

So yeah, you can find the same handle across TikTok, Instagram and also YouTube. But Drew, do loans across all three of those. That's where I'm the most active. Mostly it's all the short form stuff. Um, we are in the progress of. Of looking into podcasts and doing some long form just because I think I have a little bit of a unique position where I can talk about both sides of the table on, you know, the investing and then also the lending side. So we just haven't got there just yet. We're having fun with, you know, some of the shorter golden nuggets when it comes to both of those facets right now.

But Drew, new ones definitely do it. I mean the, the podcast is exciting and ultimately it's new way to have coffee with people, you know, get to do awesome things like this. And if you haven't already, check out Will Slickers at Hospitality fm because you know, it's. There's a family of hospitality type podcasts which would be on there. So thank you so much for sharing your story with us, Drew. And also, you know, the house hacking is awesome. How you got started, we've learned what tools you use, we've learned obviously some of the tips you'd give yourself along the way and then obviously the host loan and if people are interested in the finance, obviously you've got your calculator that can go across to hostloan Co and download that and have a look. Thank you. If you've listened to today's Boostly podcast episode, we know there's a lot of places you can put your attention and I really thank you for putting it with Boostly. If you think there's somebody else you know who would get some value from this, please do like share and subscribe to it and we look forward to seeing you on the next one. Was there any last, last moment things to say, Drew, or anything we missed along the way?

Just jump in, guys.

Love it. That's it for us. Peace out, everyone.