How to get more corporate bookings - with Kevin Poneskis of Property Soldier S7E4

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Hostfully Boost Hospitality Podcast My name is Mark Simpson. I'm the founder of Boostly. Welcome to Season seven, Episode four and today we're going to be talking about how to get corporate bookings. You're going to learn all about the risk routine that Kevin Paneskis of the Proper Soldier went through on how to get business bookings, but most importantly how to uncover how every booking that came in, whether it's from booking.com or Airbnb, was actually a business booking. And how he then ensured that they came back, but not only came back, but how they came back direct. Kevin is a fantastic guy. He is doing amazing things with progressive property and his own brand, the Property Soldier. You're going to find out how he came out of the army with property already on his portfolio, how he turned that into serviced accommodation or shops accommodation as I like to call it. And we're going to find out more about how he is future proof in his business moving forward. So sit back, relax, have a drink, have a cup of tea or if you're watching this while on the move, then enjoy the latest episode of the Boostly podcast. Please make sure that you rate, review and subscribe so you can check out more. And as always, go to boostly.co.uk podcast to find out more.

Hi everyone. So thanks Mark for having me on the podcast and on this live stream. So, yes, my background, why and how I got into property. Well, actually I joined the army aged 16 and I didn't start investing in property until I was 20 and I've been investing in property ever since. And I left the army aged 40, but because of the portfolio that I built up, I was able to leave the army without the need to get a job, which is nice. And so I left on Remembrance Day 2011. So 11, 11, 11 and I haven't had a job since I'm now completely unemployable. And different property investment strategies. Buy to let, buying and selling, buy refurbished, refinance, done, lots of that. Buy, refurbish, sell, deal, packaging, rent to rent, hmo, you know, houses of multiple occupation, lease, purchase options, assisted sale, vendor finance, lots and lots different property investment strategies. More recently in recent years, I'm focusing more on service accommodation than anything else and I'm a trainer and a mentor for property, so I teach people how to invest in property and I mentor people too and I partner with Progressive Property to deliver the training and the mentoring. So don't know if that answers your question on that, Mark.

Yeah, no, perfect. So everybody who's watching this, obviously we know through the popularity of the Boosted podcast, we've gathered people from all over the different types of property. We've got hotel owners, guest house owners, we've got now short term rental accommodation and service accommodation. So it's all packaged in nicely. So if you're wondering there what Kevin was mentioning when we're talking about the different types of properties and he mentioned that service accommodation world. If you want to find out more, if you go to the boostlead.co.uk podcast, check out season six, because that whole series was dedicated to service accommodation. You can find out a little bit more about that terminology. But this is a really good chance to chat about corporate bookings and business bookings because with service accommodation a lot of people just assume that is who it's catered towards. Where we've learned last season that it's for leisure and business, but a prime focus on that is getting those corporate bookings. And that's what we're going to talk about today. And I've been trying to get Kevin on for a while. Busy guys. We do appreciate you coming on and doing this. So I guess the perfect place to start then with Kevin was when you were getting coming out of the army, moving towards this portfolio and going down the route of service accommodation or short stay accommodation as I like to call it. What was the one bit of advice that you wish that you had received from your peers when you were getting started into this essay world in service accommodation?

Yeah, absolutely was. Well, it's with any property investment strategy that I've got involved in, I've gone and got trained on it. First, as I said earlier, I was investing in property for nearly 20 years with no training and then post getting trained, I doubled the portfolio in one year. That had taken me 20 years to build and it's much better portfolio the second time round. So with anything, go and get training. It's not simply a case of getting a property and just whacking it onto Airbnb. There's an awful lot more to it than that. And so getting the right training and potentially having a mentor as well has always been fundamental to my success and I notice it in the success of others as well.

Yeah, definitely. Just investing in yourself, investing in working with people that have done it, been there, done that and bought their own portfolio and have got a track record is 100% something that I can definitely vouch about as well. So obviously now you've been doing this for a while and you actually now training, like, say you've got a partnership with Progressive and you're training people that are getting started, whether it's SA or any type of portfolio. But what it'd be interesting to know would be what are the common mistakes that you see a lot of your delegates or mentees make when they first get into essay? And particularly, let's try and focus this question around reaching out and getting new bookings. Because you're right, a lot of people just assume you can get a property, get the keys, you do it up, you throw it up on booking.com and Airbnb and the bookings will roll in. We both know, you and I and everybody watching this know this isn't the case. But what are the more common mistakes that you see that people are making when they get into this world?

Yeah, great question mark. People do not make as much money as they could make with their service, accommodation, properties, certainly. And that, that comes largely out of apathy. It comes out of laziness. Taking it, taking for granted. Take the bookings for granted and just put them on Airbnb. Some people only do that. They don't even put it on booking.com a lot of people don't know they can put it on booking.com but so that just comes down to basic knowledge. So another way to get corporate bookings, because corporate bookings are definitely the way forward, you know, yes, you can get one night, two night, three night stays from your Airbnbs and booking.com, but that's not where the money is. Because for every time you have a guest check in and check out, you've got to send the cleaners in and do all the laundry and that will totally wipe out an awful lot of your profits. So you actually want to target the corporate guests because they're the people that are more likely to book for longer periods of time. And so the best way to target those people, I mean, there's other ways and this where, Mark, you'll come in to do that with your ideas and concepts. But for a lot of people, the initial way to get corporates is to retarget those corporates who have already stayed with you. And so the easiest way to do that is actually with meet and greet. So if you have somebody meeting your guests who are arriving at the property and just a conversation with them saying, you know what you hear for what you're doing, and they might be, you know, they might have a contract in your town or your city for the next week, two weeks, two months, three months, etc. A lot of people will only book for the first week and then look for further accommodation for the following week onwards. And so if you can then meet them and essentially establish that, then what you can do is get them to book direct with you and not come in via Airbnb booking.com in future and you can give them your website for them to book with you direct from that moment on. And that's, that's perfectly allowed and perfectly acceptable. Airbnb booking.com are happy with that taking place. And so that's how you start to create your own list, if you like, of people that are giving you permission to contact them and they can book with you direct and therefore they can save on the booking.com Airbnb and all the other online travel agent commissions, they can save themselves money by booking with you direct. You could offer them 10% discount, come with you direct, and that's actually going to save you 5% in commission because you normally pay booking.com 15% commission. So that's a way of, to start off with the easiest way in order to get corporates. And then when you've got people staying for longer than a week and, you know, a month, two months, three months, four months, all you're doing is sending cleaners in once a week to do a, you know, a sort of light clean change, the bedding and towels, etc. And that's. You'll make a hell of a lot more money because you have no voids. And that's all your costs week on week is just that one half clean, plus the change of linen. So hopefully that makes sense. Mark?

Yeah, well, there's so many ways we can unravel this answer and I love that sort of the way that we go down. And I just want to pick up on the first things you said and you talk about one of the misconceptions. One of the biggest mistakes you see people making is laziness or just assuming money is going to come in. But you said they're about meeting guests when they arrive and having a conversation with them. That is such a basic thing that I see so many people not doing because they throw out the most common excuse, I'm too busy. But you hit the nail on the head. There is that. If you can take the time out to do something different from what everybody else is doing and go and meet your guests when they arrive and have a chat with them, then the potentials of future bookings are massive. On the back of that. So have you got any success stories from your properties? We haven't really unraveled about how many properties that you have in the SA world and whatnot. But have you got any success stories from doing this method that you can think of this on the top of your head that you'd like to share with us about how you did that and what were the benefits on the back of it?

Well, in terms of getting direct bookings, yeah, we've had, you know, we've got properties scattered all over the country now, SA properties. So our main personal gold mine areas are Swansea and Plymouth in terms of sa, but with SA management with jv, with people all over the country now. So it's in excess of 60 essays in total. That doesn't include our other properties in the portfolio. And so in terms of success stories of getting really good bookings, I mean, we've got a five bedroom house and a two bedroom house. It's two houses on one title and we cash flow on that about £3,500amonth. And the purchase price of that property, the two houses and one title, was 90,000 and the refurb it needed a lot of work was 65,000. However, it revalued off the top of my head. 240, something like that. No, I beg your pardon? Oh, yeah, yeah, about 240. So we then remortgaged that at 75% loan to value with a service accommodation mortgage, which gave us all our money back out and some cash back. And so after all costs, after cleaning, after laundry, after everything, we're cash flowing £3,500, that's profit. And Swansea is four and a half hours away from me and Caroline. So this property is in Swansea for those Londoners, you know, £90,000. That's not annual rent, that's purchase price. People have to get their head around the South Wales, north of England type market, as opposed to southeast. But the point I'm going to make here is that somebody. There's lots of work to be done with service accommodation. It's just you shouldn't be doing it. And so meet and greet, we pay £15 for somebody to go and do a meet and greet. The main people that do it are ex cleaners of ours. 15 quid is a lot of money for somebody that's used to scrubbing toilets for an hour for 15 quid or whatever. And they're quite happy to go and sit in a lovely service accommodation unit with WI fi and the heating on and watching telly, waiting for someone to knock on the door or to send a text or to ring or whatever, because they need to be let in. Now what the meet and greet person then does is have the conversation with the guest, why are you here? How long you here for? What's the contract? Oh, wow. Would you like to book for this direction from now on? Here is the website and here is the discount code that you can use to get the discount, etc. And people, you know, people say, oh, well, I don't want to pay out 15 quid. Well, we've had six month bookings as a result of that. And they. Otherwise if no one met them, they would have come in, stay for a week and buggered off and stayed somewhere else. Yeah. For the sake of 15 quid you can make yourself a hell of a lot of money.

Yeah, I love that. And again, for those you've got a property, Swansea is a long drive away. You know, you value your time, obviously, and obviously you've grown this portfolio up and to be able to work around that because obviously the more properties you get on the bus you do become, because you've got all these moving variables. So to be able to find a fix for that, to be able to reach out to ex cleaners and just train them on what they need to do, what they need to see, say. And then do you have a system and a structure set up in place where they report back to you after the meet and greet and just to say, hey, so we've got a business guy who is staying in the area, but they're looking to get more, or do you simply trust that person then to do the upsell, so to speak, and to get them to come back more?

Yeah. So depending on the meet and greet person, some of them are more experienced and more skilled than others. So our main sort of meet and greet person. Yes, she can do an awful lot Otherwise, if it's just one of her guys, and they're quite often just cleaner friends of hers, actually, in the Swansea area, they can just obviously let us know that what they've gleaned from the guest and then one of our team can just reach out to them and get the direct booking and the long booking and negotiate the discounts and all that sort of stuff. So ultimately, yeah, you can train your people as much as you can and they will do what you teach them to do or what's in their capability. Absolutely. And the other thing with the meet and greet is that you're so much less likely to get a bad review when somebody has met somebody, because when no one meets a person, they only get the code to get in and they can't work out how to work the cooker or to turn the boiler on, the central heating on, or even to operate the blinds or something. That's when they're more likely to leave you a bad review. So I could go on and on and on. The meet and greet person checks guest ID and makes sure that not too many people have turned up. And it's just a really cool thing for 15 quid of a, making a lot more money and B, stopping bad reviews. And what we do is the meet and greet person gives their phone number and just in case the person has got an issue, they've locked themselves out, they've lost their key, they can contact the meet and greet person to solve the problem.

Yeah, I think there's just so many benefits to it, and it's maybe one of the reasons why people in guest houses, people that live on site, just tend to naturally get more better reviews because you're setting the guest expectation right from the very start. Normally, as we all know, we've all stayed in rental properties all around the country, all around the world. And when you first arrive in a property that's got nobody there, or you're just relying on a text message, it can be a little bit overwhelming. As in, where do you get the heating going? How do you get the tv? You know, the kids are screaming, you want to get some on, you want to get just the WI FI connection going so you can wax them on the YouTube. So to be able to have somebody there and you can just instantly go, can I park here? Where's the parking? Where do we put the bins? How does checkout work? It's setting that guest expectation, so you're already giving yourself a chance of getting that really high review. And anybody in the hospitality world doesn't matter whether you're service accommodation, bed and breakfast, hotel, you live and die by your reviews on a lot of these listing sites. So by giving yourself the upper hand of doing it. And like you say, the cost is minimal. And the plus side is not just the guest experience, but the chance to upsell. So do you have the systems and structure in place then, Kevin, to recognize business bookings before they even arrive, or are you gathering all of this information on the fly with the check in process?

Yeah, sometimes. And so, by the way, just in case any of your listeners or viewers are wondering what happens if the guest is arriving at a really unsociable time? Well, that's fine. In those circumstances you can issue the key code access because you literally don't want someone doing it at 1, 2, 3 in the morning. Clearly. But if I. Ideally they can arrive between normal hours. So between three and nine is check in times. If they do that, then we'll do the meet and greet. Otherwise we have to give the key code access. So in terms of. Sorry, remind me of your question, please, Mark.

So the question was, before the even meet and greet happens, have you got systems and structure in place with your channel manager that you use or just the team that you have to recognize a business booking so then the person can go in and go, you know, this is a business booking, so try and find out why they're here or are you basically winging it every time everyone that they go in just to try and find out during that meet and ring why they're in the town or either in the area or is there a bit of a plan in place?

Well, with Airbnb it's a lot easier because you're able to open dialogue with your guests with Airbnb a lot easier. And quite often they will inquire to you and ask you questions. And a lot of people make the mistake of then trying to wriggle out of Airbnb and try and get guests to then book direct with them straight away to their website. And they will try and use code that Airbnb's algorithms can't pick up on and stuff. I actually think that's crazy because why risk getting locked off Airbnb? But you know, you should definitely pay their commission for the first booking because they just provided you with somebody that could then book with you direct for multiple future bookings. So I suppose I'm just going to throw that one in for people. But yes, with Airbnb you can open dialogue with people and establish why they're coming, etc. That's core. And so you know, before they come that their business, it could be quite often the PA to the MD or whoever in HR is tasked with booking accommodation for the team, for the contractors, etc. And often they're just using Airbnb as that platform in order to source SA. With booking.com, it's a lot more of a sort of faceless transaction because people don't need to open up a dialogue, they can just book you direct. So with Airbnb you can be inquiries only, that sort of thing. Whereas with booking.com basically you just get told you've been booked and someone's come in and there's only so much communication you can do via booking.com before they arrive in terms of trying to get them to book with you direct from that moment on. And so no, it's definitely easier to establish it once they have arrived and and realize the potential for future corporate bookings from that moment onwards.

So here's a good question to sort of transition onto. You've grown from having a handful of properties to now having a lot of properties and you've done joint venture with SA management companies. How much actual day to day running would you say that you have right now within your SA business?

I'm a bit embarrassed to say this. I'm going to say maybe about two hours a week. Everything is outsourced to the team and quite often it's a bit awkward because people ask me technical operational questions. I haven't got a freaking clue about which button to turn, which tab to mark on booking.com in order to create this and create that and on your channel manager. I don't know the team know and fortunately I'm sort of the go to person but I can answer a lot of questions about service accommodation. But the actual hands on operational, that's something that the team do.

Never apologize because it's an aspiration, I think from everybody watching this. Well, doesn't matter what level you are in your business, doesn't matter whether it's a hospitality or whatever. Everybody wants to grow and expand and get to the level where you are. But I want to pick the bones apart from when you were starting to hire. So obviously you started off by doing this all yourself or you had a partner to come on board with to do it with you. But that first hire, that first time that you grew a team, were you nervous? Was this something that you used to do and were experienced with from at the time when you were in the army or were you really nervous when you started to hire because you're into like relinquished control? Like what was the progression from going from sort of the, the startup stage of this process to grow and what was like the thoughts that were going through your mind and were you, were you, like I say, were you reluctant to relinquish control or could you just not wait from the start? Like we had Ahmed Khan, another progressive guy, he couldn't wait to offset the day to day task of his business because he knew what he had to do to get that next level. That's why he worked with Guesty. What was it like for you Kevin?

Well, for us we went on whatever training we could get. So we were already experienced and established with traditional property investing, HMO, buy to let, etc. But we wanted to get into service accommodation because of, you know, don't know if many of your listeners have heard of Section 24, the Anti Landlord tax. Well that was going to bite us on the bum big time because of the amount of mortgages, interest only mortgages we've got and the government, we're going to be removing the mortgage interest rate relief. Well the reason why we wanted to get into service accommodation is that if the same properties or if you're using property as service accommodation, you can still offset your mortgage interest even owning them in your own name, you don't have to put them into limited companies. So the service accommodation is trading income whereas Vitalate and HMO is investment income. So they're treated differently for tax. And so that's why we wanted to get into sa. So we went on whatever training we've been on, all the different trainings that were out there at the time and all that was being taught was apartments and so we go and buy ready made apartments and also we got into rent to SA as well where we could rent apartments and use those as service accommodation. That was all fine and dandy and so we were learning the ropes ourselves initially before we start outsourcing, the Meet and Agree and all of the different systems and processes involved to start off with. I've never actually had much of a handle on the operational side because my other half, Caroline is more operations than me and so she still runs, she supervises the team on that side of the business. And then we actually started when we would get a buy to let back. So a bog standard terrace property. I got to the point where I thought, you know, I don't even want to let this back out to another tenant. I've been doing buy to let For a long time. The problem with tenants sometimes is when they trash your property and don't pay you any rent, you're not allowed to kill them. Now, that can stick in, you know, that's grates on me sometimes. And so I thought, you know what, I'm going to give this a whirl. I'm just going to list it on Airbnb, booking.com and as long as it wipes its face, all fine and dandy. And actually, I was shocked to the core to discover that even bog standard terraces work perfectly well as service accommodation. Mainly because of the trades, mainly because of the corporates who want to save money on hotels. And when they're going on booking.com and Airbnb and this, well, booking.com, let's just isolate those guys. When they see how much it's going to cost for them to stay in your town, in your city, for X number of months, then they can see a service accommodation unit that could, that could accommodate them just as well. Could be a two, three bedroom house. And there's a significant saving for them. That's when they will book you instead of the hotel. And they've got a lounge and they've got a kitchen. They haven't got all the shenanigans of paying six pounds for a pint in the bar and 15 quid for burger and chips. And so actually, service accommodation, the trend towards service accommodation away from hotels is significant at the moment. And even the bog standard terraces are fantastic for service accommodation. So they're cheaper to buy and they're cheaper to rent and you can avoid Section 24 taxes. So it's just a multitude of reasons why.

Yeah. And again, it's all about adopting for your customer avatar, your ideal guest. Like, when you set up a property, it doesn't matter whether it is a guest house or rental or service accommodation, you've got to know who you want to be attracting. And because you've got to get across the right marketing message, because you want to be saying, right, if you're coming to my town or city, Swansea, Plymouth, wherever, if you're coming for work, don't go. Like you say, getting into an expensive hotel where you've got to then worry about food and whatnot, you can come in, you can get in, you've got your own kitchen, your own lounge, you can relax, you can go get a can of beers for cheaper than one beer in the bar, you can cook your own meal, have a healthy meal. If you're in a healthcare, like I say, you can just sell that really, really easily. So what I would like to finish on then is that you've grown this. You've gone from your own property portfolio, you've moved on to doing sa, You've grown that with Caroline, and now you're at the level where you're teaching people how to do this. What is the plan for Kevin Paneskis? What is the plan for the property soldier moving forward for the rest of 2019 into 2020? What have you got up your sleeve? Because I know you've got a podcast, because I listen to that and I know that you've got other things happening, but can you shed a bit of light for everybody that maybe wants to find out more about you? Okay, great.

Thank you. We always, I think property investors should always future proof themselves and not have all their eggs in one basket. And so, yes, we still do buy to let, we still do HMO and we do serviced accommodation. Obviously, I earn money from teaching people how to invest in property and serviced accommodation as well. So there's literally, to coin the progressive phrase, multiple streams of property income going on here. And so I'm just. So your question was in a couple of different parts, but future proofing. One of the things that we're also doing now is acquiring guest houses and B and Bs and using those as serviced accommodation. Now, the reason why that's cool is because, don't get me wrong, I haven't gone start raving mad. I've got no intention of providing bacon and eggs first in the morning and be checking people in at 12, drunk at night and all that stuff. But the thing is with a guest house is that it's C1 planning, so you should target ones that are C1 or have got grandfather rights to do guest house and you can acquire that and turn it into studio rooms. So all you need to do is put a little kitchenette and sometimes, depending on local building control regs and fire eggs, you might just put in something that's got a sink, you know, kitchen unit, sink, might just have a microwave in it. But ultimately all of a sudden, you don't need to be doing baking and eggs now. So that's now a studio room. It's obviously ensuite and it's got a little kitchenette thing. Now you don't need the owner's accommodation, you don't need the dining room, you don't need the kitchen. So you've just freed up a huge area in that property. Guess what you do with those? You turn those into studio Rooms too. Now, the amount of guest house B and B owners that I speak to now that are desperate to get rid of them, they thought in their 50s and 60s it was going to be a good idea. And then the knees go and the hips go and they're working 365 days a year and they realize it isn't a good idea. And so you can acquire these types of properties really cheap, that you can even do lease surrender, where you can just take over the lease of these properties. You can put an option in place to secure the purchase price now and exercise your option to buy at a later date. You can significantly increase the commercial value of it by converting this extra space into letting rooms. And then once you've significantly increased its commercial value, you just refinance that its new commercial value and pull all your money back out. And so this is the model and the area that we're, we're moving into. Yes, we're still going to do furnished holiday let and service accommodation, but in terms of acquiring guest houses and B and B to turn those into what we call apart hotels, that's definitely a growth area that people should get excited about because there's everywhere, in every single part of the country there will be guest house B and B owners that want rid and they, because they suppressed all the turnover to try and stay below that threshold and to swivel away the money, they suppress the commercial value of it. Well, that means you can get it at a really good price, but then turn the business around and then get all your money back out.

So if there are any bed and breakfast owners watching who are looking to sell, where are you looking to purchase at the moment? Personally, Kevin?

Well, what we're doing is we're actually using people that come on our trainings to go out and they source deals because they go back to their area and they can form the relationship. They might be family members or friends or the local BNB and they can ultimately say, look, would you sell if you could? I mean, I tested this, I went to Cambridge and I knocked on four guest house doors. They were all side by side, unannounced. I didn't have any book viewing scheduled or anything. And my exact words were, look, I'm looking to buy a guest house B and B in the area to know anyone willing to sell. I got four viewings on the spot even. I mean, do it between three, after three o', clock, but that's normal. Check in time, they've done the cleaning. But in fact, no, this was before three because they were in the middle of doing their cleaning and I got four viewings on the spot. Even in their owners accommodation, they said, yes, please make us an offer, we want out. And so that's how motivated these people are. So yeah, absolutely. People can go off to the four corners of the UK and if they come back to us and say, look, we've got a really motivated seller and the more run down the guest house the better because you get to add more value to it because it's going to need a full refurb anyway because you're going to rewire it, totally revamp all the rooms.

Huge.

Well, not huge, but turning all the other accommodation into studios. It's going to need a decent refurb on it. So if it's run down, great. If it's got really bad reviews, average reviews, great. And then ultimately you just turn the business around and refinance it at its new value. So that's what we do is we use people to go out there and bring us deals and then we're open to some sort of joint venture there.

And I guess as well, thinking about the marketing side of things is if you do purchase a guest house and all of that, then you have access to all of their past guests. So again when you buy the property then you gain access to that. So then you can do everything that you need to do to rejig their memories and tell them about the new house. So lovely. Right, well we will leave it at there. But Kevin, we know that you do the Progressive, you do training and whatnot. Anybody wants to find out more about you, more about the property Soldier, where should they go? Where are they going?

Online. Okay, so they can Visit my website www.propertysoldier.co.uk the propertysoldier.co.uk will take you to my website and if people want to come at the moment, people can come on a half day training of mine for nothing. It's hosted at Progressive, so it's all via Progressive. Someone. You basically give us your details. Someone from Progressive will contact you and book you on. I do often charge for those when I'm doing my own webinars or my own networking events. People need to pay to come on those. But if people do it straight direct to my website then they can come on for free at the moment. And then my Facebook page is the Property Soldier. You'll find me on Facebook if you just search for the Property Soldier. That's how people can contact me. Lovely.

And I will make sure in the show notes and in the blog post and wherever else you're watching or listening to this. I'll make sure we've got all the links to Kevin's things there. And thank you very much for everybody for tuning in. Thank you very much for Kevin for doing this. I know you're a busy guy, so we really do appreciate it. If this is your first time that you've tuned in to the boostly podcast, what I'd love for you to do is just go and rate, review and subscribe wherever you are listening in. If you're watching this on the YouTube, you're watching this on the Facebook, make sure you stick around and go back and look at all of the back catalog of interviews that we've been doing recently. Season six is all about service accommodation, which is the world that Kevin in season seven, we're reaching out to industry experts to chat about everything from Instagram self checking. We're talking about technology, we're talking about the guest experience. We're also always going to be talking about those direct bookings. If you want to find out more, go to boostleak B-O-Ostly.co.uk podcast. If not, if you've done that already, please go and like I say, rate and review. We will see you for the next episode of the boostleak podcast.