S1:E9 - Mark and Reece @RealTalk - Training, Lies and Reece Jokes

This is the show where we let you inside the doors of a world-renowned personal training studio. Welcome to the Enterprise Fitness Podcast. I'm Mark Ottobre, owner and founder, here to introduce the show and actually joined by Rhys Adams. How are we today, Rhys Adams?

Fabulous, Mark Ottobre.

Excellent. Thank you for using my full name. It's much appreciated. And I think everyone from now on should refer to me as Mark Ottobre, not just Mark.

Okay, not Jesus.

That's even better, actually. I think you're onto something with that. Yes. Let's go with Jesus. Thank you.

Are you done with the intro yet?

I'm done with the intro. You can begin talking about stuff.

Okay, so let's start with David Mark.

Well, just before we do that, shouldn't we just like tell the listeners a little bit about what this show's about and what we're doing with it?

Yeah, that would be sort of important.

Yeah, I think it would be. Well, what I said to Rhys, you know, let's do a podcast together, not where we're interviewing each other, but basically we're shooting the shit and you know, speaking about training and stuff and our clients and really letting you guys inside the door of what we've been doing and the exciting things that we've been doing and really having a, quite frankly, a down-to-earth conversation that involves me giving Rhys a lot of shit. So that's what today's podcast is all about, and you're going to learn lots and hopefully get a few laughs.

The audience laughs at you. Basically with David, I've been training him since you finished off. And did you want to touch on what you've been doing with David before I started?

So we have a client that I basically passed on to Rhys. He started with me and he's very— well, he's an old— well, I'm not going to say older fella, but he's in his, what, late 50s, I think. He started, he sat down with me initially at Enterprise and said to me, "Hey, look, I'm approaching this like if I was needed to be in shape for a movie. I want to approach it with the same intensity and importance that if I was getting paid to, like The Rock, to be in a movie, I want to treat this experience the same." So I thought, who would I get to do that? And I did some searching, asked around, and obviously Enterprise Fitness was number one. So he began with me. I spent a lot, and he came in with pretty severe, and if you guys can go on our blog and see the David pictures, David Brimacomb pictures, and you can see he had quite a severe scoliosis, really bad postural issues, and you can see it from the photo, pronated in, tight pec minor, tight lats, shoulder couldn't really, didn't really have the full mobility or didn't have full mobility in his shoulder. So there was a lot of mobility and preparatory work that needed to go into David. And David's a classic case of, of having not found us at Enterprise Fitness and possibly trained in the wrong hands or trained with someone else who didn't quite have the experience and looking at someone structurally, he could have injured himself very, very fast. There's no doubt about that. So we really had to rebuild David. And I took a lot of the stuff that I've learned with the great Christopher Summers in terms of the gymnastics body's joint preparation. Not everything, obviously, But I combined some of the mobility stuff that Chris uses and teaches in with some of the mobility stuff that I like to do in with obviously things like split squats, leg curls, and your more general bodybuilding kind of work, which also included— our workouts in the beginning, we very heavily focused on hanging. So needed him to get up to a 5-minute hang time hanging total. So meaning that he would have to hang on the bar 60 seconds per hang, but obviously we had to build that up over time because hanging is obviously one of the best things you can do for your shoulder. And his shoulders were pretty stuffed when he came in initially. So yeah, we did a lot of preparatory work that lasted probably about, I'm gonna say at least 8 weeks, maybe even longer, 12 weeks. I mean, we didn't really go for broke for a while and then we moved into more like an 8x8 phase. And I think it was just about the end of the 12 weeks with me where I said to him, look, I think you're going to actually be in better hands with the great Rhys Adams. And then Rhys took over the reins and has been training him since, and the guy's made some unbelievable progress. He's got some guns on him, that's for sure. And people are commenting on his physique all the time. And probably one of the most— he said to me one of the most radical things I presented to him was gluten-free. And I said, you know, you can break some other rules for me, but the rule that you don't break is you've got to stay and remain gluten-free. And, you know, he thought, like most people, I'm a little bit fanatical, which I am, and don't make any apologies about. However, he followed my advice. He went 100% gluten-free. And, you know, he, he thought I was full of shit when I told him that— I think he started about 78 kilos, something like this— when I said, you know, we'll get you down probably around 68 kilos. And from, I think it was about 22% body fat, to you know, around 15% body fat. Probably do that in about 6 months. It was pretty much 6 months to the date he achieved exactly what I said.

I do remember him saying that he was blown away. He's still blown away to this day at how many notches that he's dropped in his belt.

Yeah, I mean, he looks totally different. You can even see from— he's shaved off probably easily 10, 15 years. I mean, added on, not shaved off, because that's kind of the opposite of what we're looking at.

She's thinking about your beard again, Mark.

Yes. Well, yes. RIP beard. RIP. But the good thing about being Italian is it grows back in 5 days. So, you know, I'm almost there to a full beard that I can plait. And it's only been, what, 3 days now? So, you know.

What were some of the— if someone did have shoulder issues, Mark, what would you be looking at? What would be the main players in mobility exercises for those people?

Yeah, I have a lot. I've got another client at the moment who's got very, probably worse than David shoulder issues. And what I look to do first and foremost is just get their hands overhead, which might sound really simple and remedial and basic, which it is. And that's most of the time you need to start really simple, remedial, basic, and that's why, and then you build upon that. You can't give someone spinning roundhouse back kick before they can do a front kick. So what I do is I get them to stand and I simply get them to bring bring an arm overhead and I measure and see what the mobility is like. And I also see if there's any referral from— or if they have to use their lower backs or if they bend— have to bend their knees. And also, where's that coming from? So imagine, imagine someone standing up completely straight and you raise one hand perfectly straight just above your head. Now, if your lats are too tight, usually people arc their lower backs more. They might bend their knees. They might pull their hips in, or should I push their hips out to try and compensate for that range. So I'm looking at all of this at the same time. So I'll assess them, and what I'm really aiming for is their bicep to be behind, preferably behind their ear, is really what I'm, what I'm wanting in terms of full range of motion. If they can't achieve that, then usually what I do is I start with things like just hangs. If someone can't hang with, like, one of the clients I've got at the moment, their body weight is too much I'll just simply get them to put their feet on the floor and arms up overhead and hold on to something like a chin-up bar. And it's basically what you'd call a supported hang. And then from there, usually moving to the floor using like a dowel rod or like a broomstick and getting them to face on the floor and doing a kind of like a trap 3-raise, but it's off the floor and making sure their elbows are fully extended. And the ones that I've got you to do, actually, you know the one. Absolutely. That's the listener's picture, but you know, we can put some pictures up in the show notes and on Instagram and stuff like this.

Yeah, I found a massive difference in once I started doing it, the pairing the two together. The hangings helped a lot with my elbows and releasing through my lats. And just in terms of elbow pain, I'm just getting a lot less.

Did you just get some free advice?

I absolutely did.

I think that's just what happened here. You asked me a question and you actually wanted my free advice. Oh, I see how this is now.

Let's be honest, isn't that what podcasts are?

Yeah, I suppose. Race Gets Free Advice, Episode 1, 2, 3. Yeah. No, no, but in—

You've taught me well.

I have, I have, haven't I? The art of asking. No, but in seriousness, like I remember when I looked at you and I said to start adding these in because you have those issues fully. 'Cause you're, you know, you're a big guy, all jokes aside, you're a big guy with a lot of muscle mass. And most guys with the amount of muscle mass that you have are going to have some dysfunction. And usually that dysfunction relates in actually an inability to continue to carry on their muscle mass, or they put so much muscle mass on that it actually starts to create dysfunction, like you said, in the elbows, the shoulders, and they get the niggles in the lats, and things start to rotate in that shouldn't. It takes a lot of wear and tear on the body. It makes sense to look after these things because I relate it to you're a high-performance vehicle. Well, not you, but let's say something similar to you, like a Ferrari revving down the track. If your shoulders aren't functioning correctly, then that's going to have a massive impact on, you know, the way you lift weights and your overall long-term longevity in, in, you know, your career in terms of your physical development. So it's hugely important.

Yeah, and often the go-to is just to stretch the pec and strengthen the upper back, but I've got a lot better results doing the hanging and the, the Y raises with the stick.

Yeah, that's because lats are usually Lats and biceps are actually probably one of the two most undiagnosed things as it relates to shoulder issues because they attach— where the lat attaches can pull the shoulder. Certainly, pec minor as well can be responsible for that. Everyone thinks that just this is the shoulder, let's get the rotator cuff stronger. It's like, as I say, if your pec minor is super tight and you have no trap development— and when I say trap, it's not just your traps aren't just the things that sit on top of your— near your neck or on your shoulders. Your traps go right down into your middle back. If you don't have any development there and you have these massive pecs, which you do, that's going to pull you forward and create a lot of stress on the shoulders. The shoulder is not going to be sitting structurally where it's supposed to be. So when you go and do a bench press, you're not able to pull the shoulder blades into a good position which you can express force from. It's going to be more bone on bone, which is what you don't want. That's why just doing External rotation work doesn't— it doesn't always work unless you have a weak external rotation.

Can we also talk about the other guy that you're working with, Mark? He's also got a lot of ankle issues and even feet, flat feet.

Oh goodness.

So can we touch on that?

Yeah, yeah. So you want me to go into like what I do for that?

Yeah, for flat feet and poor ankle mobility.

Usually the first thing I need to do is throw out people's shoes and instruct them to buy new shoes and— Thongs. Oh, God. Thongs are the worst things for people's feet. I mean, some people don't even realize, right? They just walk around in these thongs all the time and they have collapsed arches and knee issues and hip issues and they think, "Well, it's better than shoes." It's really not. So, usually, there's a process of educating people. Shoes like these things like the free shoes, you know the ones I'm talking about, or I always give Andrew Maloney a hard time because he just seems to gravitate towards pillows as shoes. I hope he's listening to this and we'll throw out his current shoes. But, um, what you really want to avoid is a lot of cushioning and support in the arc, um, because what can happen from that is you can roll in and then creates dysfunction in the knee. So a lot of people buy like, you know, the Nike Free kind of shoes and they think they're better, but if you actually look at the way the shoe's structured, there's too much support, um, right at the, uh, the arc of the foot, which then can cause the foot to roll in. Um, they might look, you know, fashionable or whatever, Wear them on your weekend. Don't wear them in the gym. I think the best shoes to wear in the gym are your Asics Foundation. You basically want a shoe that has a very, very hard arch. I know the Asics Foundation, for example, they have a nice, good, strong, hard arch in the shoe. Also, the Brooks Beast are another example of a shoe that has a really nice, strong arch in it. Usually, I educate clients on that. Sometimes, you need to use things like toe separators, where you put a separator in between the big toe. And obviously the toe next to it, which is actually what the technical term is to the big toe. So you've got the big toe, then the toe next to it, and you've got to put the foot— the toe separator in that. You can get them from like the chemist and stuff, and that will help. I learned that from a chiropractor, Steven, from North Family Chiro. Sometimes that really works, helps in terms of stabilizing the foot. Then, it's not— some people like this guy who I'm training at the moment, he's not ready for barefoot training because his ankles are too bad. But hopefully we can work him up into being able to bring that arc back up. There are exercises. Some people use the exercises of grabbing the towel. That's not as good. It's a different kind of motion, which again is really hard to explain on podcasts, but it's more of like a sliding motion with the foot. Andre Benoit actually taught me that. But also, if you look at someone squatting, usually what you'll find if someone's squatting who is has good foot muscularity and they use their feet correctly, you'll actually see them lift up a little bit onto their arcs and the weight will be displaced more on the outside of their foot. You've got to think of it, if you collapse your arc in, what does that do to your knees? Well, your knees fold in. Then what does it do to your hips? Your hips aren't going to be stable. What does it do to your lower back? Your lower back crumbles. You see powerlifters all the time, "Spread your knees. Spread your knees. Spread your knees." That obviously is a side effect of that is your you are, and you should be pushing out from your feet as well. So, yeah, I mean, the other thing I do is just get the tendons ready. And like for this guy who I'm working with at the moment, we've cut it, stripped it right back to the bare basics, because that's all he can do. Just calf raises. And when I say calf raises, like we're not even using a, we're not using a height. We're just doing calf raises from the floor. And I get him to do 50 at a time, just calf raises from the floor. And you know, that's enough to make him sore. I'm just working on getting the Achilles— getting some blood in the Achilles. Another thing I learned from Christopher Summers is that the Achilles particularly and the calves, lower portion of the calves where the tendons are, tendons have very, very poor blood supply. You need to do a heap of reps to get blood supply in them and really start to mobilize them and stretch them out. It's not enough to do a set of 10. You really You really got to do a lot. And ultimately, if it was me, I'd do sets of 100. But for new clients, I obviously back that down to something that's more manageable like 50 and then bring them up in due time. Awesome.

Some good content there. Touching on the shoes, I've got some Asics Kayanos myself and I found they're a bit too cushioned as well. Because they're more of a running shoe. So yeah, definitely get more of a hard sole.

Yeah, there should be a bit of plastic right in the arc of the shoe. Like obviously on the outside, not on the inside of the shoe, but there should be some plastic that really supports the foot. Or a hard surface. And obviously, if you look at weightlifting shoes, for example, weightlifting shoes at the bottom of the heel, traditionally they're made out of wood. Wood. There was absolutely no giving them. Now, obviously, with the Nike Romeos and Reeboks lifting shoes and that, they don't use wood anymore. They use a hardened plastic. Think of that hardened plastic in the arch of your shoe. That's what you really want. Then when you compare that to, let's say, the Nike Freeze, where it's got this nice fat cushioning, or the— what's it called? The Under Armour. If you see Under Armour's version of that, they've got even— it's a really weird shoe because they have even more cushioning at the arch, which is exactly what you don't want in terms of if you are running or doing any type of weight training because it's basically running on a pillow. The way I always explain it is in terms of making contact. I said this to Andrew, obviously Maloney the boxer. It's like going in the ring with 20-ounce gloves compared to fist fighting. If you fist fight with someone, you're obviously going to hurt them a lot more and hurt your hands. If you're boxing with 20-pound gloves, then if you punch something, it's not really going to have the same effect. I mean, it will hurt and you'll be able to do it, but it's not going to knock someone out necessarily. And create the effect you want. But also, if you think of that walking on those surfaces, there's a lot of instability in muscles that are kind of thinking, "Hang on, shouldn't this be a stable surface where I lift everything from?" And it should. It shouldn't be this cushiony surface that you're working on.

Yeah, I found that training at some of the Anytime Fitness gyms as well, not bagging them, but the actual surface of the floor, because they want to quite in the sound of the weights hitting the ground, they're actually quite soft and you can actually feel your feet giving based on the floor.

I don't know what an enterprise trainer would be doing training at another gym, but that's probably another podcast for itself, hey?

I would say so. But you know what's important?

You want the pump, you want the machines.

All enterprise trainers, they train. That's important.

That's very important.

Okay, now let's touch on Andrew while we're on the topic of Andrew. He's got a big fight coming up. Have you done anything different lately with Andrew to what you've normally done?

I have, actually. I'm a lot harder on him. He had a fight with this Japanese guy, and since then, my whole perspective of being nice to Andrew has just gone out the window because of how brutal the fight was. Andrew, he's always been— like I said to him, as long as I'm your strength coach, you're going to be the strongest guy in every ring that you step into. And he has been. He's been knocking guys out, 1, 2, 3, 4 rounds, usually the job's done. Jumped in the ring with this Japanese guy and they went the full 10 rounds. And it was probably one of the most brutal fights that you'll see all year. It was amazing. It was an epic fight. Andrew won. It was incredible. He put on a show. He put on an amazing performance. But it just showed me that, you know, how important training and in training, like, you need to prepare your athletes for the worst scenario. And I can't be nice to him. You know, if he's tired, too fucking bad. Like, I don't care that you're tired during training. You have to do the work because when you get in the ring and there's another guy and he's not tired, what are you going to do then? So, we've upped the intensity. In West programs, sometimes you have a client and it'll say 30 seconds and they'll sneak maybe 40 seconds. Now, if the program says 30 seconds, it's 30 seconds and I'm much more enforcing. That mentality has probably changed and I've put him through— I've been doing a lot more lactate tolerance work with him because his strength is exceptional. He's on the— I think he benched the 30 well, definitely is the 32.5 kilo dumbbells off memory just recently for a couple of reps, which was really good to see because I mean, Andrew, what he fights at 52 kilos. So to do that with the dumbbells, not obviously bar weight. So he's bench pressing that, he's getting quite strong.

And that was a slight incline, wasn't it? I think it was.

Yeah, it was a slight incline. Yeah, that's right. There was. So, you know, he's getting very strong. I haven't tested his 1RMs on a bench in a while. Had to work around, like, because he's got a very intense fighting schedule this year, meaning that he's got a lot of fights. So normally where I'd like to undulate him into back into relative strength, I haven't been able to do that. But fortunately, like, I've had so much time with him. We've been together like 3 years now, so I've had a lot of time prior to build a really good relative strength base. So now we're just keeping up with the strength endurance and more specific to boxing. And really making sure that the lactic tolerance of repeating efforts is there rather than trying to get necessarily his 1RM max. Because the other thing is there's a fine line. If I'm just getting deadlifting all the time, he pulls up too sore for sparring. So, you've got to respect the athlete that there's only so much strength work they can do until their body breaks down and they can't perform their sport.

With that said, in terms of like you being harsher on him. I've also noticed that you've been harsher on him in terms of recovery, making sure that he's basically making the right choices on where he actually spends his time, not spending time doing things that aren't going to be productive for the fight.

I've always been big on that for him. I've always been big on that. And yeah, I put a presentation together on this as well, and he actually saw the presentation and I explained it to him. And he's like, "Yeah, I think it's very important for an athlete that they understand what you're trying to do because you ultimately need their buy-in." And I think now he really gets it. Leading up to a fight, he's only got so much energy. People think of this, their energy, and it's a thing with overperformers. They have this delusion. I fall in that category as well. I don't know about you, Reece. Actually, I probably do know about you. You probably don't fall in the category. But with that said, overperformers, what they want to do is they want to believe this delusion that there's just a well of energy that is completely untapped and they can just keep training and they can train through anything. And the reality, that's just not true. The reality is there's going to be a point of diminishing returns and something's going to give. You're going to you're going to burn out or overtrain. You're going to need to recover. So, and I mean, he gets that because if we do a massive session again, like say something like deadlifts, the next day he's completely ratchet for sparring. So we need to work around that.

Yeah, so you sort of need to do it like way out from a fight, whereas this time he's had fights pretty close together.

Yeah, it's like we got off a fight and then he takes a week to recover from the fight, and then, you know, it's like 6 weeks or 4 weeks to the next fight. So It's not exactly a time to go into relative strength because there's a lot more soreness. The thing is he has to perform in sparring. This is what I mean by when you start programming for someone at the level of Andrew, it's no longer just science. It's an art to it. You apply the scientific principles, but at the end of the day, there's stuff that it's like there's no textbook written on exactly how to do this. Everyone else who's written or has any material on it, at the end of the day, they were guessing as well. They were guessing that that was right. Right for their athlete. You've got to put all the principles scientifically of how the body actually works and what you see and then make a hypothesis or a logical process to then put the client through to hopefully get the end result. The higher and higher I think you get an athlete, the more of the art component takes over. It's very easy when you have a client for the first time. It's like pure scientific principles. This will work. But as they get closer and closer to their potential, that's where the art comes in because it's, well, now we're going somewhere. That very few people have gone. So there isn't necessarily an exact of how to get them to the next level because there's only very few people who get to that next level.

Yeah, a lot more strategic.

You need to be and you need to see the— It's kind of like you go, I look at Andrew and his programming as it's like a war, right? And wars usually last some years. So it's like, well, do we just focus on relative strength this year? No, we can't. But does that say next year when he has less fights, he'll be able to do a lot more of that? Okay, so we might lose the battle of getting his 1RM to the highest level this year, but over time, that's only going to help in terms of athletic endeavors, in terms of building a better base, which we're doing now basically with more generalized work. He's going to be able to peak higher later in his career. I mean, he's still young. 23, 24 years old. So we've got a lot of time to— he won't— I mean, that's the thing with strength, right? I mean, the older you get, generally the stronger, because you have more time, you can get as well. And strength athletes usually peak in their, you know, 30s, 35s, 40s. Look at someone like Ronnie Coleman, that 800-pound, 900-pound squat that he did was when he was, what, 35 or something? 39, maybe even older. So, you know, you have a lot of guys like hammer throwers as well who peak much later. And I'll say, you know, with the Maloney's, you'll see that as well. I think they'll just get— I don't think, I know for a fact that as their career goes on, they are just going to get stronger and stronger and stronger.

What sort of lactate work have you been doing with them, Mark?

I've been killing him. I've been killing him. They're actually really, really simple programs. So because boxing lasts 3 minutes every round and has 60 seconds rest, So, I did some work with him and I'm going to do a heart rate monitor to go for a normal run and did his heart rate stuff and going to spa, going to wear his heart rate monitor, and then going to do one of my circuits, going to wear the heart rate monitor. Then, I correlated all the data of the heart rates and I showed him. I go, "If you run, it takes you 10 minutes to get your heart rate to what it would be if you were boxing." When you box, your heart rate goes— I thought it was going to be like 150, 160 throughout the rounds. It was at 180 and it stays at 180 for 3 minutes, which really surprised me. I was like, whoa. So, I developed a series of programs which I've always been taking Andrew through to get his heart rate to 180 pretty much straight away and maintain that for 3 minutes and then get his heart rate down as low as we can in that 60 seconds rest and then back up. Because that's, that's what boxing is, right? So initially when I started him, I think it was Commonwealth Games, he did one of my circuits. It might have been after Commonwealth Games for his first professional fight. I just can't remember the exact year. Um, I started with 6 exercises, each exercise 30 seconds long. Now because he's more advanced, I've dropped it to 4 exercises and each exercise is 45 seconds long. People might be thinking, well, it's only 2 exercises at 15 seconds per exercise. It makes a huge difference, huge difference. And I said to him where I'd like to take him is 3 exercises, 60 seconds each, which is even harder. So I've been doing that style. And also, you know, there's magic in the pairing that I've been doing with him as well. Like, you know, upper, lower, and just the exercises that I've been getting and choosing him to do have really put a lot of stress on his whole body. So it's been great. You've seen him walk out a couple of times where he's just been shattered.

And he's a mess.

Yeah, it's great, it's great, but it's what he needs, you know. He's— I mean, our workouts are very, very fast now and they're very, very intense, and it's exactly what he needs, especially when leading up to a fight. Because you can't— like, volume is what kills you, right? You can— someone can maintain the intensity for like 20 minutes, but, you know, you do— you exceed that intensity and then he has to go home and get ready for sparring at night. That, that's what kills the athlete. So, um, we keep our workouts very short and sharp, intense, and then he gets ready and boxes at night.

And by dropping exercise back, the effort's a bit more concentrated.

Oh yeah, yeah. Which again is relative of boxing. You want that concentrated effort for 3 minutes. You want to knock the guy out in 3 minutes or less, right? And then rest. And if you don't, you rest 30 seconds and then you try and do it all over again. If not, you've got 12 rounds to do that in. It really is a sport of— it's an interesting sport to prep an athlete for because because it's a sport of repeated efforts and also a high level of endurance. It's one of those sports that's not exactly like— if you look at football, they basically get the ball for 5 seconds, kick it or do something with it for maybe 5 to 20 seconds. If you look at the athlete and what they're doing in terms of their physical— physically, what are they doing the time they get the ball? They use maximal energy for maybe 5 to 15 seconds. They get rid of the ball, but then they have time to recover. So you have a lot of very short sprints repeated over time, but there's a big emphasis on the recovery. Whereas with boxing, you've got 3 minutes that you have to— you're on the whole time. Like, you can't let your guard down in that 3 minutes, and 60 seconds isn't a whole lot of time to recover. So you've got to be very careful in that. But I, I think enough about my athletes, Reece. Tell me, you've had some, uh, You've had some, some very impressive athletes compete. What have you been doing differently with Kirsten?

With Kirsten, so something that I've learned over time with Kirsten is that—

well, first tell us, Kirsten competed at the—

she competed at the WBFF.

Yeah, this was her third show? Second?

Yeah, third. She's done— she did an INBA show, then she did IFBB, and now she's moved on to WBFF. And basically Kirsten's a beast. Whoever hasn't seen her, you should probably check her out, Kirsten Bailey. The way she works is just like she retains muscle very well and she always wants more. So what I've done in the past has been very strategic, but with her I need to be strategic, strategic in the ability to let her feel like she's doing a lot, but also to know when to pull her back. Because if she doesn't feel like she's doing enough, then she cracks the shit and does it anyway. So, so I need to be— the more, the more I work with her, the more she works with me. So it's sort of just need to meet her halfway. But obviously she knows that I'm the boss at the end of the day. Yes, you do, Kirsten, if you're listening. And every time she's competed, she's far outdone herself. She's always had a hard time with her legs being— she's—

well, with that said, at the last show, I saw photos and her legs looked absolutely amazing.

Yeah, they compared to where she's come from, definitely a shitload. But the girl that she was competing Unfortunately, came in with tighter legs. That was the judges' feedback. In terms of physique, they were happy with her physique. They just said, look, if you can come in a little bit more conditioned on your glutes in particular, then, then you will have it. So that's what we're focusing on this time around. She's got her training legs 3 times a week, and for her, she has a hard time activating that area. So just really focusing focusing on teaching her to use it because she just likes to lift heavy. So I guess—

so let's go into that for a second, right? Because the thing with Kirsten, if you saw her for the first time before she even went into the gym, she's quite a fit, in-shape-looking woman. Yeah. So it's almost— it's almost she's one of those clients that it's almost a little bit intimidating because the level that she already presents at, you know, if you know what I mean.

Absolutely.

So, you know, you've taken her from where she was to where she is now, and, you know, she has, she has obviously improved amazingly and put on some really good muscle and quality. And I think really overall, to me, from an outsider, it looks like she has reshaped her physique. So you touched on something very important. You've got her training 3 days a week. A lot of people who are listening to this, Reece, will say, what do you mean you can do that? But, but can't you only train legs once a week? So just explain your, uh, your thought process.

Okay, so that's where you've got to take into account recovery. Um, so obviously the overall volume of those days is slightly less, but just have her training it more frequently.

So what would you be doing? Because you said about activation, so, and why is that important? Because you hear a lot of, um people, let's just call them people, you hear a lot of people who say things like, you know, just lift heavy and, you know, that's how you build muscle. So, and she wants to lift heavy, so why don't you just lift, get her to lift heavy? What, has there been any consequences for Kirsten from just following an approach of lifting heavy?

Yeah, she tends to have issues with her lower back. The previous preps that we've done where she just focused on lifting heavy and we didn't do as much activation work. And this time around she's got no lower back pain and we've still lifted heavy because what I did leading up to the comp was actually spend a lot of time teaching her how to actually use her glutes and her hips. Whereas previously she was hinging at the lower back.

So you've had to strip it right back and teach motor patterns basically.

Correct.

Yeah, and then, and re-educate the body on exactly actually how it should be functioning rather than just, you know, put a whole lot of load on the bar and hope for the best.

Yeah, so basically to simplify, pushing the reps back up and then bringing them back down over time whilst teaching her the movement pattern. And just, you know, warm-ups, just getting her to spend some time actually like using the muscle in the first place so that when she does train she knows which muscles to use because she's very quad dominant. If you look at her legs, she's got some decent wheels on her.

Yeah, yeah, but doesn't— sounds like she has my issue. She just uses, you know, bends from the knees and lifts.

Yep, just as long as she's getting from point A to point B, to her, she was happy. But she actually— she told me now how happy she is that she actually can use, in particular, muscles and how important the mind-muscle connection actually is. That was her words.

Yeah, well, I mean, it's very important for bodybuilding. I just will add to that. It's very, very important for bodybuilding. But I mean, also, like, I've pulled 230 as my best deadlift, and I have it up on YouTube. And if you look at that deadlift, I bend my knees. The bar's always at my shins, but I bend my knees and my lower back basically does the work, and I lift it without any involvement of glutes whatsoever. You can look at that and go, "Just go heavier and get stronger at that motor pattern." But at the same time, there's a ceiling of efficiency. If you look at the lift, it's a very, very inefficient way to pull from point A to point B. When you strip it back and make sure the motor pattern is actually correct, you're going to be lifting more efficiently. Therefore, you're going to be able to get a greater load. Load. And also you're going to be able to do that without any injuries. So this is where I think the, the art of, you know, the Russian system, where they would get their, their youths just to get really, really efficient at a lift before really starting a loading process— I think that's lost in, um, you know, Western methods. Well, not maybe not Westside, maybe Westside, I think, because they have their, their lighter day. They certainly have kind of a practice day, which is, which is very good. But certainly in bodybuilding, you I don't see any real coaches, I think apart from us, who really incorporate things like a practice day of lifting.

Yeah, let's generalize as the first world kind of thing, first world problems.

Yeah, definitely. You have some other clients, don't you, that you've been—

So Sarah, Sarah's a fascinating one. So when Sarah started with me, she was a bikini model and now She's successfully won competitions in fitness, and even to the point now where we're actually going to get her to compete in figure next year.

So yeah, you posted up a before and after of Sarah when— before she started with you to after, and it was— it's very, very impressive because you have the typical— it seriously is like comparing a bikini competitor to then Janet Kane with her back just like shredded and ripped in veins. It's like you have Sarah, the before Sarah, and there's almost no back definition. And then you have Sarah, who's after working with you, is almost like a mini version of Janet Kane, and her back is looking completely shredded and ripped. Like, it's a very— and kudos to you, Rhys. It's a very, very, very— and obviously, Sarah, if you're listening, well done, great job.

It's a very, very impressive transformation, even to the point of she was actually told by the judges to not flex on stage. So that was an interesting experience.

Wow.

Because not often— like normally with a competitor on the day, you often want to get them harder, if anything. So to get a competitor softer on the day was just something that you don't experience often.

No, you don't. And for me, it's always a little bit annoying, if I'm honest. It's like, no, I want them to be massive.

Show it off, you know, like Well, that's what I ended up doing after, because she went on the first time and she came, I think she came second or third, and then she went on the second time. Yeah, I think it was second, and then she went on the second time, she came third. Oh my gosh, she's getting worse. We're doing what the judges are saying, she's getting worse. So I had a talk with you and we just said, let's stuff it, let's just go for it.

Totally go for it. Yeah, my approach is always just go for it. Just why not?

So she chugged half a bottle of maple syrup before going on stage, so she had a good time.

Yeah. Yeah. She do better after that? Did she place? She placed higher after she did that, didn't she?

No, she actually didn't. I guess because the judges didn't like being told, like, they like to be listened to. Let's be honest.

Yeah, they do. But we can always think we're right.

Yeah. And let's be honest, on comp day, they don't eat enough. So, you know, she got to eat a bit more.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And what else, any other— you had another competitor you want to discuss, was there, or have you done all your competitors? Was there another client that you wanted to talk about?

No, not really. No, they're probably my two main ones that I have done some interesting stuff with. Well, I guess maybe you, did you want to talk about you?

Is that okay? Yeah, I can talk about me. Rhys is kicking my ass at the moment and training me, which has been a lot of fun. I've been— actually, you know what? Why don't you talk about me? It's always nice to hear someone else talk about me for once.

But, Mark, you talk about yourself so well.

Don't I? Yeah, well, for me, and I think Rhys will attest, I like to go hard. And usually me going hard means I meet with an unfortunate injury of some sort or a niggle or pain. Pain, which then puts me backwards and then I need to rebuild again. And then I'm like, "Yeah, I can go heavy again," and I go too hard, too fast.

Hey, Mark, how's that energy well going now? You overachiever, how's it going?

I have no delusions. I have an infinite energy well, thank you very much, and I will pull from it anytime I need.

Maybe in the business realm, but it's kind of screwing you over in the training realm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. So yeah, that's— yeah, sorry.

That's where I've had to sort of jump in and basically pull Mark back more than anything.

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I was going to say. I need— really, I need someone there to tell me not to train, you know, and say it's okay to take a day off and, you know, recover. Because God knows that you actually build muscle when you recover. Don't you, Reece?

You definitely do. So for Mark, periods of like overreaching and then pulling back would be good for him. But at this stage, what we're working on is at the start of the week doing more of the heavier lifts, and then at the end of the week more just doing like pump work, which just to get blood in the joint and get him moving. Because obviously he wants to train for life as well. Don't you, Mark?

Yeah, that's when someone in the gym, they say, hey, what are you training for, a comp? Like, no, training for life. They always look at me weird, but you know, you gotta be prepared for life. You might meet someone like Rhys, who's the white beast, and you know, you might need to protect yourself one day.

Like that time I got hit by a car.

Yes, like that time you got hit by a car. It's actually a true story. He got hit by a car. He was on the way to see our barber and he got hit by the car and you know what happened? I think he dented the car.

Yeah, the front quarter panel caved in and cracked the headlight.

Yeah, and then your bike was damaged but then you were just like, yeah, whatever, I'm going to get my haircut. And then you got up, you picked up your bike and then got your haircut and then you saw Robbie and Robbie's like, hey man, why don't you go to the hospital or something? You're like, nah, I'll be alright. Right, and the damage to the car.

Then for the record, I was the one that hit my bike. So it came off on a tram track and then went to pick my bike up and a car wasn't paying attention and hit me. And then he kind of— he got out and he wanders up to me and he's like, is your bike okay? I hit your bike, didn't I? No, you hit me.

Asshole. What an asshole. It's kind of funny though.

He was a psychiatrist, so.

Oh, well, that explains everything. He's already like putting it in his head. Oh no, I didn't hit him. I wasn't aiming for Reece. I was aiming for his bike. It's totally okay. I haven't hurt anyone. I'm a good person. Keep telling yourself that, buddy. Keep telling yourself.

But moving on from that, that's a little bit off track. What else has been going on in the world of enterprise fitness marketing?

Well, you want me to talk a little bit about Janet and the last program that I wrote her was— literally, I've been training Janet for so long now that when I sit down to write a program, usually I can write programs fairly fast because I'll assess a client, I'll know a client, and it's pretty straightforward and easy because of the years that I've been doing it. But I'm getting to a point now with Janet's programming where I'm like, shit, like, what do we do next? There's pretty much no method that I haven't done except for what we just did. And she put a video up of it the other day of the supereccentrics. And obviously the reason why we haven't done much of the supereccentrics is because, you know, it takes— well, no, I shouldn't say time, but it takes spotters. Like, you need probably at least 2 people, 3 people present. Depending what exercise you're doing. So we're doing a phase of super eccentrics at the moment, so I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes, and I think she'll pull up really, really sore and make some really good gains from that.

Have you heard anything back from her after that squat day?

Because she did it—

was it yesterday?

No, just that she was sore. Okay, so that's really, really sore, and she loved the workout. I think neurally she got a big buzz. And normally we're used to training legs about twice a week, like we'll usually do a quad-focused day and a posterior-focused day. So for example, something that focuses at the start of the week, more of a squat, front squat kind of thing. And then at the end of the week, we'll do something more like stiff-legged deadlifts, hamstring curl, and make it more that orientated. So yeah, just that she, I think she really got a good buzz out of this. Neurally, the drive was there. And I think using this method, we'll probably have to drop that back to 1 a week just because she'll pull up so sore from the supereccentrics. 'Cause she's, her first time doing them, she got up to about 90 kilos. I think it was 88. 88 kilos on the supereccentric. So, which is reasonable for a first time doing it. So, you know, it's— I'm looking forward to seeing what we can do with this. And then the rest of the time when I'm not there and she can't do these eccentrics, I've just got her on a simple wave loading program. Depending on the exercise, it's either 753, 753, or she does 975, 975 for 6 sets. So not all 6 sets total, but, um, in a wave loading format.

So, so two, two waves?

Yeah, two waves, exactly right.

So you've only really got to doing the supereccentrics, uh, once, or is it twice a week?

Once a week, because simply, you know, it would be great to do it twice a week, but just due to time constraints and also, I suppose, manpower constraints of having, uh, trained spotters around her. She comes to Enterprise once a week. For her, when she goes away, it's hard to get people who know exactly how to perform them. Obviously, when you're performing it with weights that are 110%, 120% of your max, you want people who can spot you properly. It has to be done properly because if you've got more weight on the bar than you can handle— well, because you can only handle it eccentrically— then you need to be careful of how you set up. So, we only do it when I'm around, basically. Exactly.

If you had her doing it twice a week, how would you have structured it?

An upper day and a lower day.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah, it's good that you said me too because I'd be worried if you said no.

That definitely is, um, obviously it's going to take the rest of the week to recover.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Mark, you got nothing to say? This isn't like you.

Well, you've got no questions for me. It's not like you.

You took like 20 minutes of the start of the conversation and you didn't stop. You didn't take a breath.

Well, did you want to say something, Rhys? You've got something to say.

Oh, it's been that long now, Mark. I can't even remember.

Oh, wow. I suppose that's unfortunate. The listeners don't get to hear your monotone voice. Yeah, but you did ask me another question about what's been happening in the enterprise world. Would you like me to divulge this information with our listeners?

Yeah, well, enterprise and I guess Wolfpack as well, or as a collective.

Yeah, well, let's do it as a collective. So a lot's been happening and a lot more is going to happen. So obviously we're just off the— well, I say obviously, it's like, well, everyone knows obviously what I'm thinking, but no, they don't. So we are just off the bat of our third Wolfpack program for the year. This is the first year of running something as audacious as Wolfpack. Wolfpack is a 12-month mentoring program for trainers. And in it this year, we're doing 5 seminars that are all 5 days long. They're very, very, very, very intense seminars. The first one was with Andre Benoit. The second one was with me. The third one that we just had is was with Bob Gill. And you were there, Rhys. That was a phenomenal experience. Bob certainly did not hold back on the level of intensity. And the great thing about it is all the seminars I'm getting filmed, audio recordings are going up, so all my students are able to go back and review the material after the seminar and make notes and write it down and listen to it 10,000 times so they can retain the information.

And it's quite literally a part of history now.

Yeah, yeah. And you're going to be a part of history too soon because you're going to be doing a presentation in August for my students on your programming, and you're going to teach them some training stuff, and you'll be part of that too. So really developing an encyclopedia of sorts of the fitness business and fitness training and nutrition with world-class guests. So looking forward to the next couple of years of really building that encyclopedia out. And just presenting it with really an encyclopedia of next-level information. In August, it's me, it's you, it's Chris Gulliver-Jowles as well. He's going to teach sales for us too. And then there's another couple of days with me. And then at the end of the year, it's going to be 2 days with Andrew Lock and then another 3 days either with me, you, and maybe Chris as well. So there's going to be a lot of content and very diverse content. Content covering everything that you need to be successful in the fitness industry from obviously your training, nutrition, supplementation, business, sales, marketing. It's the whole thing. So just creating that infrastructure and taking people on that experience. I think really like Enterprise I see now is an experience. Yeah, we get absolutely amazing results, but we really want you to really enjoy the experience of training at a world-class level, of training correctly and moving correctly and being part of a better way of treating yourself physically. And really, I think that comes from my love of physical culture, because it's not just bodybuilding, it's not just, you know, powerlifting, lifting heavy weights. It's— it really is an appreciation of being physical, moving, and enjoyment in that. So yeah, that's that. And then obviously the song, which the backing track you can hear. Yeah.

Yes. When is this going to be released, Mark?

I don't know. I don't know. And I don't know if I can really talk about it, to be honest. So, you know, I just pay for things and, you know, I'll let smarter people than me figure some stuff out. So, you know, obviously the track was produced by Jaymond Dillon, and he's in process now talking to people about, you know, how the song's going to be released. And Prodigal Son from Wu-Tang Clan and Sons of Man, he obviously rapped on the track. And then Crunch was the the vocals as well. It's an awesome song. Love it. Obviously, you've heard it. You can listen to the backing track of this. Obviously, we haven't put the lyrics in because we're waiting for Jaymon to do his thing and release it officially. But, yeah, it's awesome and it's got a lot of Enterprise and Wolfpack references in it. Something fun to do, something that I wanted to do for a while. The Fitness Business Summit, Hayden Wilson, I just spoke at. That was good. I think I did really good. Got some really good feedback from that. So yeah, fun times, fun times, and there's always more on the horizon.

And Mark, to finish up, can you touch on Wolfpack 2017? What's going to happen there?

Yeah, well, I'm not going to say it officially, but I'll just say it unofficially. Rhys has had a lot of very interesting guests on this show, so we're looking at quite possibly having some of those guests as part of the program. The way Wolfpack works is next year, I'm probably going to take 25 people, 20 to 25, just depending on— and I'm looking at doing it a little bit differently than this year. I think I can be a little bit more innovative in the way I do it. And obviously, like last year when I opened the program, I didn't have all the content that I'm going to have this year. Obviously, this year we will have done 21 days and full days of filming.

How many hours of content have you got? On the website.

I counted it all up and I think I have to count it again. By the end of the year, there should be about 175 hours of content. And I looked at that, I'm like, shit, 175 hours. Did I get that calculation right? So I'm not going to say it's 175 hours, but I think by my calculations it will be. So I'm just going to say conservatively, there's going to be at least 100 hours. At least 100 hours.

Does your computer even turn off, Mark, while these things are uploading? Because obviously they take time.

Yeah, they— you're telling me they take time. Holy shit, do they take time. It's like 4 days for one file. It's a pain in the ass. But, you know, you got to suffer for your art a little bit. So, yeah, I mean, I've got another— actually, you remind me, I've got another video to upload at the moment, or re-upload, I should say. But, yeah, I mean, nonetheless, there's going to be a lot of content. We're doing 21 days of filming this year. So, you know, it's a lot of content and it's a lot of very in-depth content. So, Full courses have been filmed, like Bob's all 4 days was filmed. When I spoke, my full 5 days was filmed. All the implementation and Q&A days are filmed. We do a group call that lasts 2 hours every month. I've done a bunch of one-on-one calls which are recorded, which are on there. Jaz and I have done some private sales training videos which are on there. I've done some other private videos about marketing and different topics that are up on there. So yeah, there's a heap of content. That once it opens in 2017, which I'm going to release the course for next year. It's going to open, I think, November 7th is when I spend my week away to just make calls. And then, I'll open the program then. And then—

Just to be clear, Mark, so that's going to open November 7th, 2016, yeah, for 2017?

Correct.

Okay, just to clarify.

2017. So, people can preregister now. They can preregister. They just have to go to the Wolfpack link which, you know, if they go to my Facebook, if they want to send me a message or go to info@enterprisefitness.com.au and ask about Wolfpack, they can. I think there's a link on my Facebook page as well. You know, you see some videos there. And also if you go on the Enterprise page in the events section, there's a Wolfpack link there which people can preregister, leave their details, and then, you know, when we're officially taking on new clients or new students, I should say, you know, they'll get a call and we'll talk about if it's right for them. And go from there.

Because it's not for everyone, is it, Mark?

Oh, no, no, certainly not. And my students this year will tell you it's not for everyone. If you want to be at the next level and you really are dedicated to that and being world-class and want to commit and be at the top 1% of 1% in the industry, you need to be in the program. If you want to just keep doing your thing and not really have anyone hold you accountable to a higher standard, and if you don't want to learn, if you're just comfortable, if you're just comfortable as a trainer and you're happy being comfortable with training, if you don't want to be challenged, don't be in the program. If you don't want to be challenged, do not be in the program. Because one thing I do well is challenge people to a higher level, and Rhys can attest to that, because I get the best out of people and I'm not always— and you know, to get the best out of people, quite frankly, a point on leadership, you can't always be nice. But at It's where you do it from.

You do it from a place of love, not from a place of hate.

Correct, unless it's for you.

We have a love-hate relationship, Mark, and you know it.

Yeah, yeah, you love me but hate that you love me, and I just hate you.

Yeah, on that topic, we should probably go so that I can find a way to punish encourage you in your workouts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Alright. Well, I hope everyone has enjoyed this podcast listening to Rhys's ramblings and my pearls of gold and wisdom. See you all very, very soon. Thanks, Mark. See ya.