S2:E6 - Randy Roach : Mark Ottobre interviews Randy Roach on The Enterprise Podcast

Welcome to the show that punches you in the face with information, but in a good way. This is the Enterprise Fitness Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Ottobre, owner and director of Enterprise Fitness. So today, folks, as you know, I've been re-releasing the old Maximus Mark Podcast, which I did in 2012, 2011 actually is when I started. Now, This is the podcast. This is the podcast that got me started into podcasting. And a story that isn't often known, or isn't known because I haven't told it publicly, is that I got in contact with Randy Roach after reading his book. So Randy Roach is the author of Muscle, Smoke, and Mirrors. Now I read that book and I listened to a bunch of his podcasts over at Superhuman Radio when I first heard about Randy. And I was amazed because Randy's partially blind. So to write a book, let alone a 700-page book, let alone to attempt to write 3 700-page books blew my mind. But also some of the concepts and the ideas that Randy was sharing in nutrition, I'd never heard at the time, never heard of before. He was talking about raw food, etc., and all this kind of other stuff about the soil, supplements, and really just was a historian historian at heart of where things come from. And that has always fascinated me, is why do we do the things we do and where did it come from. So Randy was a nutritional historian. So I had to get his book, I read it, and then what I did was I reviewed his book. So I started doing YouTube videos. So I thought it'd be a good idea to start reviewing books that I read. And at the time, one of the books I read was of course Randy Roach's book Muscle, Smoke and Mirrors. So I reviewed the book, I put it up, and I thought it'd be a good idea maybe just to shoot him an email just to let him know that I loved his book and reviewed it. So I got an email back and Randy said, "Thanks, is there anything I can do to help you?" And I said, "Well, I would love to interview you sometime." And he said, "Sure, name a date." And that was enough for me. I took that opportunity and ran with it. I got back to him straight away and I said, "I'd absolutely love to interview you, whatever it takes. I'd love to interview you." So I started going through his book, highlighting what can I ask more questions on. And really just fanboy, right? That's completely what it was. So I wrote all my questions down. We did the interview. I think it's a phenomenal interview. This was my very, very first one. This was my first attempt at a podcast. And obviously the podcast show then developed because of the fact that once I finished the podcast with Randy, I thought, wow, I have to share this. How do I do it? So I got in contact with some tech people. They set up my podcast show and the rest was history. So folks, It's 2008 now, we're listening to a 7-year-old podcast, but if you haven't heard it before, you're in for a treat. Randy is one of the brightest minds in nutrition and bodybuilding and health and fitness today. Check him out if you haven't heard him before. Randy Roach, folks, you'll get a lot out of this podcast. Nutrition historian. Buy his book, it should be on every personal trainer's, coach's, fitness enthusiast's bookshelf, and that is Muscle, Smoke, and Mirrors. Enjoy the show, folks.

Okay. Okay, cool.

Hi folks, it's Maximus Mark. I'm like a kid on Christmas Day. I'm interviewing someone very special today, Randy Roach. Randy is the author of the book Muscle, Smoke, and Mirrors, which is an absolutely fantastic read. Today will be a little bit like that scene in The Matrix where Morpheus turns to Neo and he says, do you want the blue pill or the red pill? Today you're gonna hear things that you may not have heard before, and if you've heard it, you're probably dying to know more information from a really reliable source. Well, today I have that reliable source in Randy. Randy has been studying the world of nutrition for over 30 years. He has studied its origins, its roots, the formation, and ultimately its political corruption. Welcome, Randy, and thank you so much for taking your time out, for letting, for sharing the knowledge that you've been acquiring writing your book, Muscle, Smoke, and Mirrors.

Oh, no problem, Mark. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.

Most welcome. So it's becoming more common knowledge that our soil is depleted. I've seen people suggest that the soil was on the decline as far back as the 1940s.

"When did the state of the soil really start to decline, and why?" I would say the soil started declining probably several centuries ago when we came over and started farming it like we did. Actually, I was actually surprised too to find out that chemical farming was already well underway 100 years ago. As soon as you start plowing and turning over the soil, then you start the erosion in terms of just eroding soils. Once the soil has become depleted, we never really advanced ourselves with proper cyclical agriculture in terms of putting back in the land what we take out. We migrated to this, we can put back through chemical means. I guess I was surprised to find fungicides, pesticides, herbicides, they were all chemically being put on land as far back as 100 years ago. We started depleting our land long ago. Farther back from 1940. It's just probably much worse now with companies like Monsanto totally disrupting the whole farming process all around the world in terms of using GMO crops to make them resilient to their Roundup, and in Iraq and many places where they have come in and totally disrupted centuries-long tradition of fairly sustainable agriculture. Like I said, the soils, our soils now are in bad condition. Okay.

So do you think it's just for profit of the farmer, or is there more at play there?

People will debate this issue in terms of whether it's an argument that we have to feed more people, so we have to do it this way, but it's all— When you look at this, you find that the industrial entrepreneur always went out. It's always more industry, more industry, more industry. And everything in our Western culture is more and more chemicals. And that seems to be the driving force in terms of like, you can't say, Edward, did they purposely ruin our food supply? Or probably not purposefully, but In terms of when you look at how they wanted to take control of food, the food supply, when I say they, I'm talking about the shapers, the movers and the shapers of the way the world is going into more and more control in the hands of less and less people. We're being globalized and the food supply is being globalized, internationalized. You can see this going back decades. Decades. Back in the '30s and '40s when countries decided we can't feed ourselves, we have to import. You look at all around the world now, even going down to the islands of St. Lucia where they have all this wonderful indigenous food, but it's all exported out. And if you go to eat down there, it's all food that's been imported in. Every country has been made now to export all their resources and then to import things back, basically creating this crazy carbon footprint that has cost so much the way we do it now in terms of developing and sustaining one's own resources. So again, there are some dubious hands at work in taking— in terms of orchestrating the way the food is produced and stuff today, but it's of course a lot of money's involved.

Okay. Yeah, because—

Much more so than the well-being of the food product. Like the food has been totally compromised and they can't argue that for the sake of the for the dollar.

So that the soil has been depleted, would you think there is a need for supplementation to make up that difference?

Again, that's not a debatable question in terms of the integrity of supplements. I don't really know. I don't think there's really been great, great long-term studies done on the true benefits of supplements and high-dose supplements. You know, they are food fractions. Our bodies have come along not understanding and not taking food in that manner. Again, we don't know if it is straining us in certain situations or helping us in situations. So I'm leery about supplements. I would like to think that they did work because it'd be a great magic fix, but we've been dousing supplements down our throats for 60 years, 70 years, It's done nothing to stop the epidemic of degenerative disease, and we probably take the most vitamins and minerals over in North America than anybody in the world. So I can't answer that accurately. I'm leery about the efficacy of supplements. Many out there will say adamantly that I'm wrong, that they do work, but they may appear to work and do things short-term, but on a long-term, I like to see study done where the subjects are taken through gestation, through pregnancies, and to see what happens when the fetus is developing and in its early growing years, how supplements help or hinder with certain diets. So I really didn't answer your question, but I do still take a few terms of food concentrates, fermented cod liver oil, and low-temperature produced camu camu, which is the camu camu plants. It's not so much food fractionated, they're just more concentrated concentrates of foods with high amounts of say vitamin C or vitamin A and vitamin D or iodine or EPA and DHA, stuff like that.

So how much control do you think that like pharmaceutical companies have over supplements?

Oh, they have, they have control of certain— many supplement companies are owned by pharmaceuticals, but they don't control all supplement companies, but they are definitely, are strong, strong power internationally in getting regulation that's to force the supplements out. You know, there have been some— through the decades, you know, some successful supplement companies have been bought up by pharmaceuticals and then basically run out of business within a few years. But pharmaceutical companies are also profiting off supplements, even though they would like people all to be on drugs because they can't really patent anything that's natural in supplements. So they would eventually like to see them put out. And they are doing this very well there in terms of Codex Alimentarius and being behind the United States FDA, USDA, Canada's Health Canada, and producing regulations that are just strangling the hell out of the supplement companies. And, you know, putting a lot of BS, like, oh, we're doing it to protect you, and this makes— there's hardly any notable death from supplements as compared to the hundreds of thousands that are— that die each year from the direct result of toxicity of taking pharmaceutical drugs.

Yeah, definitely. Now you mentioned—

So they have their hand in this, sorry. They do that. They absolutely have their hand in there, but they don't have total control. They would like total control.

They'd like to get rid of them. Do you think they'll ever get total control?

Oh, they may, but it won't last. I mean, for them to have total control, they would have to be in a global tyranny. Because they can't lie. Like, I mean, they can't put us all and force us all in the drugs. Now you're talking about a global dictatorship. I don't know, I don't believe that's going to happen, but they're trying to, just like, I mean, in terms of control and greed. But they're, they're having a lot of trouble, and then it's a lot of, a lot of it's falling apart on them as well. But they're, they are, they've been doing this for years, and there's a lot of money behind these global initiatives. It goes back to, like they said, the League of Nations back in 1921 after World War I, and The formation of the Council of Foreign Relations and the Royal Institute of International Affairs, these are all global initiatives put out there, but not by one just particular country. It's like the Federal Reserve thing in the United States. Most people, probably the majority, think the Federal Reserve is an American institution. It's not. It's privately owned. It's the way they name things that people think, oh, they're put out by this country, that country, but these are pure global initiatives that that are put out by people who I would just call global architects. They have no alliance to any country. They want world government, and they've been working on it for a long time. It used to be conspiracy talk, but it's not conspiracy anymore. It's quite evident that they want international guidelines, international laws, and that's why we have NAFTA, GATT over here, the World Trade Organization, and you know, you see the European Union. 50, 60 years ago, people would have laughed at the notion of all those European countries getting together to share a currency. Trade, and they're working on the North American Union. It's all covertly over here, so there's still people today deny that there's a North American Union behind the scenes and the Merrill being on the works, but they are now starting to break the surface of mainstream media and talking about it. So those, like I said, it's happening, but again, in order for them to do that, they want to have basically the food supply international, globalized, and controlled. Okay.

Now, you mentioned Codex Alimentarius. Can you explain to our listeners who have never heard of Codex what exactly that is and how that's going to have a big impact on nutrition and supplements?

Well, look, who the hell would know what Codex Alimentarius means? It's Latin. Why would they name it that? They name it that so you and I don't know what it is. And we don't— it's to keep— it's just jargon. Jargon was created to keep people out of the conversation and to keep it monopolized, keep it controlled. So they call it Codex Alimentarius, which basically means food guidelines. Alimentarius, basically, I guess, Latin for the GI tract, and Codex in terms of some type of hierarchical structure. But it is basically international food guidelines, and the matrix of this, it all came out of basically the World Health Organization. And initiatives for it go quite a ways back, but more so after World War II when the United Nations got launched. And the World Health Organization spawned from that and the Food and Agriculture Association. And basically the matrix for it was laid down in 1962. There's— like I said, everything starts as recommendations and guidelines. And, but sure enough, they had as a mandate, a behind-the-scenes agenda to eventually make them law. Now, it laid dormant for quite a few decades until I believe the World Trade Organization started to pick up, and they were going to adopt these guidelines now as their law. So all countries involved with the World Trade Organization, they would be more favorable— the laws, the international laws, would fall on their side in terms of even food regulations and— because remember, everybody's importing and exporting now, right? And so this is how they basically sneak these things in, and next thing you know, you're talking about dealing with new laws here internationally. But like I said, there's lots of litigation going on, lots of fighting going on behind the scenes. The mainstream media doesn't cover any of it. They never have covered any of this, and that's their job. They're not to cover it. It's basically been a blackout, media blackout, out of many of the things going on. even in Canada where these ridiculous licensing laws that have been putting out on the supplement industry which would force so many people, small distributors, out of business because they can't afford to do it. But again, you're not seeing it in mainstream media. They're not talking about it. So it's up to the person, the individual person who watches TV and reads just a traditional newspaper, that's their source of news. They don't know what's going on. And then they wonder what happened to certain things have just suddenly disappeared because they weren't aware of what was going on behind the scenes in terms of certain laws that have been put out without their knowledge.

You also mentioned the globalization process. Could you just elaborate on that for our listeners?

Well, like I said, that's been going on for 100 years. I'm gonna talk more about this in volume 3 of my book because in volume 1, I talked about the, basically the reformation, basically the takeover of the American Medical Association back in 1910 with philanthropic money such as from the Rockefeller Foundation or the Rockefeller Institute of Medical Research and the Carnegie Endowment Fund with Drs. Simon and Abraham Flexner. Who worked for those two organizations, and they helped in terms of reformatting the American Medical Association, which was not very impressive at the time. They basically— they weren't dominant. There was homeopathy, chiropractic, naturopathy. They were fairly prominent as well in terms of choices for medical care. But with this insurgence of this money and reforming along the lines of scientific method pharmacology research labs. Naturopaths, homeopaths, and chiropractors, they don't use drugs, so they weren't going to receive any funding in the school, old school. So eventually, a lot of those schools shut down, and basically, the new paradigm of medicine, which was going to be drug-based, took control. And again, these tax shelters, the Carnegie Endowment Fund and the Rockefeller and Guggenheim and Ford, They were all basically, they spawned onto the scene like crazy after, between 1910 and 1930 because these foundations weren't gonna be taxed. And because they created these shelters because these same, who I would call the global architects, these are the very wealthy, people who control banking, people who control oil, people who control pharmaceuticals. Were highly instrumental in bringing in the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 in the United States, which took power from Congress to making money and putting it into the private sector, which was the Federal Reserve. And again, never audited. By the 1950s, there were many people concerned what was going on in terms of the American education system. And more and more questions were asking, who is influencing this education system? And what is going on with these tax shelters? Who, what are they? What is the money being spent on? Why are they never audited? And Congressman Eugene Cox, I think in 1951 or '52, got congressional approval to investigate them, but he died. And then Congressman Carroll Reece, a prominent Republican politician, took over the investigation, and he hired Norman Dodd as his director of research. And in turn, Norman Dodd hired Katherine Casey, who was a young lawyer, who he assigned to go and researched the Carnegie Endowment Fund and the Rockefeller Foundation, they were told, "You're under investigation." And Katherine Casey went to read the minutes of the meeting of the Carnegie Endowment Fund back in 19— just around World War I. And she couldn't believe what she was reading at that time in terms of these elitists talking about taking over the American education system, putting, you know, teaching kids and indoctrinating kids into thinking collectivist thinking along the lines of the socialist Soviet Union and basically taking apart the United States. And she just not— could not deal with what she was reading and she literally lost her mind. She had to be institutionalized according to Norman Dodd. She saw in those minutes of the meetings this Carnegie Endowment Fund, these elites talking about the advantages of world wars to consolidate power. Hence World War I, you got the League of Nations out of attempt. Hence World War II, you had the United Nations. Exactly what she's reading, she's seeing it happen and transpire, these attempts to start to centralize power and globalize. There's all sorts of, in terms of theories, in terms of what's going on with these secret societies and, you know, the Club of Rome and the Illuminati, it's all different names. But the fact of the matter is it is happening and they are doing it. The history clearly shows that. And it's very well documented. But many people have written on it. Sorry, Professor Carol Quigley, who was, I think, one of the professors for President Clinton. Clinton used to quote him. Carol Quigley was a professor at Oxford, and he wrote a 1,000-page book called Tragedy and Hope because he said he worked at the top level of this agenda, and he says he agrees with it. He just didn't agree with the fact that they chose to do it quietly. Covertly in terms of globalizing this planet, in terms of, you know, basically a world government. And again, the thinking is that some of our best minds, you know, I guess they determine themselves to be our best minds, got together decades back and decided that if there isn't a global initiative, efforts to basically get things under control on this planet, that we would have basically a social economic implosion by the middle of this century because if we did not, you know. So there was people who honestly believed in it, that you have to, we have to have, you know, they watch, you know, the same as like Star Trek. You watch Star Trek, you know, the Federation and everybody's of one mind, right? Everybody's of one law and to keep things from getting crazy. But after, sorry, back to that congressional investigation in the '50s, of course they were talking about these people have a lot of power and they were able to shut down that investigation. But both Norman Dodd and Congressman Carroll Reece behind closed doors behind closed doors. We're told things, and basically that we are going to a world government and there's nothing that we can do about it. And they do not want the United States— they could not have the United States and North America way up here, high up in economic status with the rest of the world down. They wanted it balancing out, but they weren't going to meet midway. Basically, they're going to pull down the United States economy and our, basically, our social standing down below, closer to where the rest of the world was instead of bringing the rest of the world up. And that's why you— we've seen from that point on in the '50s, they called it the deindustrialization of the United States. Basically started tearing down the protective tariffs. Before, it doesn't matter if Mexico or any country, international country wanted to use slave labor, they weren't going to— those products were going to get stopped with a tariff at the border and they weren't going to be able to saturate our market. But they start to tear them down and let them come in. So out went the textile industry, out went the shoe industry, the electrical industry, the computer industry. It was by design. It was by design. And they did— and it took them even longer, but finally did enough damage to the auto industry. There's books and books written about it. Farewell America, 1967, a book called Farewell America. I had to find it. It was banned in the United States. It was talking about much of this. They got a little bit into the Kennedy assassination as well, but it was mostly about be it deindustrializing the United States. So that is the only way that explains what's gone on in the United States in the past years, where everybody can't figure out why they're so in debt. How can you be so stupid to get yourself in that position? Well, they're not stupid. It's by design. It's like Donald Trump was on Larry King about a month or two ago, calling his political leaders stupid that they've got— the United States no longer makes anything. He was saying that even his Chinese contact friends are saying, we can't believe what you're allowing us to get away. And Donald said, our people are stupid. I think Trump knows better. He knows they're not stupid. But it was by design. That's the only way you can get to where we are is by design. So in a nutshell, that's basically the globalization process. And like I keep saying, that involves the annexing of the world's food supply. And that's why you see all these huge international corporations like Monsanto, ADM, these guys in the GMO, products and farming and stuff, and it's scary. Frankenfoods, it's cold pasteurization, irradiating foods, chemical applications by the tons. It's been basically a bad road for, in terms of food. Compared to, we are so far off the natural path of what food and health is supposed to be. It's going to be interesting to see how we can reel it back. Wow.

So obviously there's a lot of different things that you've raised there. Before I do move on, I just wanted to ask you quickly, can you just explain a little bit more about cold pasteurization? This is something you mentioned to me previously, but for our listeners who haven't heard of cold pasteurization, could you just talk about the bit about the history of that?

I first read about it, um, 23 years ago. Harvey Diamond was writing about it in one of his Fit for Life books about basically bringing up the point, back in the '80s, you're probably too young to remember, but the big talk was what we're gonna do with the nuclear waste. And he goes, you don't hear about it anymore because they decided they're gonna feed it to us. Basically, and I thought it was ridiculous. I thought there's no way that they're gonna take this irradiation, this nuclear waste, and produce all these small irradiation plants all around the country and irradiate food and tell us that it's good for us. That that's how it's going to preserve shelf life, prolong shelf life. And they're going to call it PicoWave at the time. And but there was no— there's no such thing as any scientific term as PicoWave. And I had kind of just kind of drifted away from that. And then until several years later, I saw something about cold pasteurization. I'm thinking, what's cold pasteurization? I know what pasteurization is. It's heating. It's basically, you know, but so you look it up and sure enough, it's using radiation to pasteurize food. So there's a lot of foods being pasteurized right now. Again, the labeling, the power of these food companies is huge and redefining organics. They can hide everything in the labels. They were able for years to hide trans fats, lie about trans fats, and to basically hide the fact that certain foods have been irradiated. People are always fighting to get exposures to have to make them label properly so you know what you're getting. But I remember a couple years ago there was in the alternative news, not the mainstream news, never the mainstream news, that there was a big battle on because there was an outcry that the USDA allowed this called Pasteurized Meat to be sold to kids at school. So it's— and now coming across the borders, people are wondering, you know, all nuts, they were going to make it mandatory that all nuts have to be radiated. But again, the nut company was fighting back and it's gonna sue the FDA, or was it the USDA, one of the two. They're gonna sue them because they have no right to do that, to declare everything's gonna have to be subjected to radiation like that. But that's why you always see, remember I told you in order to globalize the population, you have to globalize the food supply. So you have to nationalize it and internationalize it. In order to internationalize the food supply, You have to sterilize it because foods are perishable. Like, real healthy food should be a cottage, local cottage industry and indigenous. But because of the perishability of foods, they have to sterilize it. So in order for them to justify all the sterilization, they have kept on a decades-long scare fear campaign that germs are so bad, germs are gonna kill you. They're absolutely ridiculous. They made us into this total germ-phobic culture and with absolute lies. About the truth about germs and our symbiotic relationship with germs in order to keep us fearful so they can justify pasteurizing everything, pasteurizing milk, irradiating meats, irradiating nuts, you know, so they can prolong it and ship it further and store it longer. And they'll never talk about the truth on mainstream TV. You gotta search and research it for yourself to get to the truth about that. But we have the egg scare, we have the broccoli thing, you know, the peanut butter, you know, So, and these— it's these big companies that are responsible. It's very seldom, if ever, the small companies or the small farms that do it, because they do do proper farming, whereas these big agribusiness gigantic companies that just do factory farming that are doing all the destruction and basically risk having contaminated foods. But again, that's basically cold pasteurization, and just as one of the food pasteurization processes and others being obviously genetically modifying it and labeling with so many sprays and chemicals.

Now, you mentioned the germs and bacteria and that we've all been scared of that. Now, you eat your food raw. So, I wanted to ask you a little bit about why is that? What was the turning point for you? What did you discover that made you think, okay, I'm gonna have to turn raw and eat my food raw?

I— there are a number of reasons. Like I said, I've been studying nutrition for over 30 years, and it wasn't always for bodybuilding. It's because I wanted to try to help the blinding process. I was losing my eyesight from Stevens-Johnson syndrome, so I experimented with a lot of things. I came to— in terms of reading alternative health, and also, I— don't get me wrong, I went through all the orthodox mainstream medicine, and that's what did me all the damage. Years of drugs, botched more surgeries than you can believe. But I learned that, you know, even the pioneers of bodybuilding in terms of building muscle, they used a lot of raw milk and like guys like Durano and others, some of them ate raw meat and found that there was such a major difference. And that made sense to me that why cook the food is, you know, how long has— how long have we been cooking food? You know, why would we cook it? I mean, no other animal on the planet eats food cooked. So we're the only ones that do that, process and cook foods. So I started drinking raw milk about over 10 years ago, and then it took about 8 years ago raw meat. Now I had been culturally indoctrinated as well, so I was fearful. I was fearful of the chicken quite a bit so that it took me another year before I'd even try the chicken. And once I did, I liked it very much. I've told the story before that because I was sight impaired, I would cut some of it and leave the other part on the counter as I ate the other stuff, and then I'd forget about it because I didn't see it. And then I put my hand on it later and I just throw it out. I'm not going to eat that. It's been sitting there for an hour, 2 hours. And I kept doing that, and finally I got tired of throwing this stuff out. This is perfectly good. I was just afraid to eat it because it sat there too long. Salmonella is going to kill you. So one day I was sitting out there for a good 8 hours in this in the summertime. And when I put my hand on it, it was actually starting to get hard. But I thought, oh, the hell with it, I ate it anyways. And again, nothing. I didn't have— there wasn't anything. I, um, again, because when I do raw eggs, I can't see what I'm popping the glass. Sometimes, um, I'll just pop and bang, slam it back. And the one time a few years ago, I swallowed a bad egg, and I knew it was bad, and my mind started playing, should I go throw that up, should I go throw that up, or What's gonna— it's gonna make me sick. I didn't. I let it go. I got a bit of a stomachache, but I was really wondering if I had brought that on myself. So the next time I did, I knew just before I swallowed it, it was bad, but I swallowed it anyways. I thought, that's not— nothing's gonna hurt. And I didn't feel anything. I didn't feel nothing. There was nothing happened to me at all. Now, I, I've— out of curiosity, I will sniff the egg just to see what it's like. But again, we're told all these things that the salmonella is so dangerous for us, but I mean, come on. I mean, I used to do the, you know, you eat raw chicken, you wanna scour the whole damn counter, the sink, everything, just because before you cooked it. And here I am eating the chicken 8 hours old, and I had a friend who was fighting with cancer. She was eating raw chicken that was aged for 2 months. We had to go out on my deck, it stunk so bad. I mean, it didn't do anything. Like, I mean, so what's going on? Why are they telling us all this? Yeah, sure, you must be careful with, I'll tell you, the only times I have ever, ever got feeling sick from eating meat was when I could— when I was eating cooked food, and but I was still severely visually impaired. I would cook it, but I— if I didn't cook it enough and then I put it in the fridge and maybe had it a day or two later, that's when I got— because that's when aggressive bacteria feeds on dead matter. And when you cook the meat, and same with pasteurizing milk, you create a wonderful environment for bacteria to flourish. When you take raw milk from cows who are fed grass, you can enter the Campylobacter or the E. coli strain and it won't survive. It's the wrong environment. But again, they don't tell you any of that. They just scare the hell out of you, constantly scare you. Especially the raw milk paranoia is absolutely insane. They have done a really good job of indoctrinating the people to be absolutely terrified. They almost treat raw milk like a biological hazard, you know, it's ridiculous.

So, do you source your meats from any particular place? Do you have to source your meats? I mean, can you eat raw from the supermarket or does it have to be, you know, bought from the—

When you— I'd never eat any ground beef from the supermarket because 1 pound of ground could come from 100 different cows, right? Yeah. Because it's like the milk, they collect the milk from all the different farms in a great big tanker truck and it's all mixed together, then boiled together and processed together and It doesn't matter. The farmers don't care how they farm because they know it's all going to get boiled. It's the same with the general supermarket meat. A lot of that ground beef is just piled together. I know my farm— sorry, I know my butcher and my sources of meat. Yes, you do have to source and you have to be respectful to the foods that you eat. And I get natural beef. Yeah, sometimes it's not all grass. It's hard to get all grass fresh, but as long as it's not on hormones, but ultimately the best is fresh, unfrozen, pure grass-fed beef because the constitution of the meat is different. Basically, the fat makeup is different, the ratios are different, there's other factors in terms of vitamin E and vitamin C being in the meat. Again, most people don't realize how nutrient-dense meat is, especially grass-fed.

Okay, and you mentioned you don't freeze the meat. Why is that? Are you not a believer in freezing meat?

No, freezing damages it. Maybe not as bad as heating, but again, freezing cracks the cells, and that does damage to the meat. Again, obviously, look at cultures that have been around. Even the Hunza, one of the healthier cultures in the world, they had— they cooked a fair amount of the food, but they also dried their meat too. They would boil some meat, but they also sun-dried the meat at lower temperatures. Cultures and such, but obviously it's not— it's just more, I would say, more degenerate. I look at food as being— it's how alive it is biologically in terms of communication with the body. I find, like, I mean, I could eat— I used to be able to eat meat. I could put sauces on, trick my body and eat a lot of it, but then I'd pay for it the next day. It'd come out of me. I knew I didn't digest it, digest it properly. When I just eat pure raw meat, I know how much I can eat. My body just stops. It's just the food processors as well have really mastered in bypassing our satiety points by making foods now that you can just like, especially carbohydrate foods, where you can just eat and eat and eat tons of it. I remember when I used to, I never really ate potato chips, but years ago, 30 years ago, I'd maybe have a handful of chips and that'd be enough. I wouldn't want anymore. It's just, whether it was the salt content or whatever, I just couldn't eat anymore. I didn't want anymore. Then now recently, I bought some because I was having people over, and I even went to the health department, you know, the natural food part of it, the rest of the grocery store, and bought the best ones. And I tried one, I said, "Yeah, that's pretty good." I ended up eating the whole bag. I didn't understand that I could eat more. I said, "How did I do that?" I said, "I ate that whole bag." I smoked it. And it's like, well, you look at the ingredient list and whatever they've done, they're able to make me just be able to eat more and more and more and more food. Yeah. So it's amazing how they can duplicate any taste. You ever, over in Australia, you guys had those little, I don't know, the little jelly beans with their like root beer pop going out there? Yeah, yeah. Taste, they can duplicate it.

Yeah, watermelon, yeah.

So like I said, it started 100 years ago. Our bodies, their market. You know, it's just, it's a bonanza of crap out there that they're trying to shove into us to make money.

So with the raw food, is there any certain preparation or is it just cut and eat?

I cut and eat. I have, friend, young friend, he's got good culinary skills. He likes to make sauces and do things a little more fancy, but I'm— because I was damaged from Stevens-Johnson syndrome of my intestinal tract, I am very basic. I'm anaphylactic. I mean, I got to be very careful. That means your throat can close on certain reactions, not the peanuts or anything like that, but for me, like a peppercorn, biting into certain hot spicy foods and stuff aren't good for me. I've improved quite a bit since doing raw, but I'm very careful in what I eat. So when I eat meat, I eat just plain, have my raw cheese with it, or where some other people use olive oils and garlic and make sauce that are actually quite good. I tried them, but I like to stay really bland, and sometimes I dry my meat to 85 degrees and make something like raw cheeseburger or something like that, but I mostly do like raw sirloin steaks and raw ground beef, and once in a while raw chicken, once in a while tuna. I find beef sits the best with me, so I'm able to eat so much more raw meat than I ever could eat cooked meat. So I can eat way more calories now. As a bodybuilder, my biggest problem was I could never eat enough food. I could easily get lean because I had no problem cutting my calories down, but my physiology just wouldn't allow me— my digestive system wouldn't allow me to take in the calories to produce the muscle that you needed to take in a lot of calories. You watch, look at the guys from the '50s and '60s and the common denominators are those guys who got bigger before the real insurgence of drugs. They could take in a lot of food. They had this sound bodily constitution and physiology where they could take in a lot of calories and proteins and fats, a lot of proteins and fats. And I— it took me several years because when I first started eating raw, I found I could only eat a quarter pound of raw meat at one time and my body said, "That's enough." I didn't want any more. I didn't eat any more. I gagged. Even when I was hungry, even when you're hungry, anything tastes good. Even the raw meat tastes good, but a quarter pound, that was enough. But that's changed now. Now I can take in 3/4 to a pound at a time. I find 3/4 of a pound is optimal for me. I can do a pound, but— So now I can do that 2 or 3 times a day if I want to. So I can take up to 3 pounds of meat a day where I could never do that before unless I try to trick my body with the sugar sauces and cook it, but by the next day I didn't trick anything. I was coming flying out again, right?

Yeah.

So, and now, you know, able to eat a lot of raw eggs, a lot of raw meat, you know, raw dairy, and I'm able to, you know, at my age now I'm not so crazy about wanting to get really big, say like when I was in my 20s or 30s or whatever, so, but I still love training and working out. But the point is, at 50, when people, I'm 50, gonna be 52 this year. Typically, as you get older, you're starting to have to watch what you eat more, and having digestive— mine might have improved by going to raw food eating.

Have you ever had kangaroo?

No, no, I would be— I wouldn't mind trying it. Have you?

Yeah, yeah, it's a fantastic meat. Great.

Have you had it raw?

Yeah, I have. I have had it raw. It's great. Yeah, the only— I guess my own— my biggest thing about raw meat, I guess the biggest hurdle that I'm still battling with, is having it cold. I'm so used to having meat warm, and yeah, it's probably, I mean, it's a minor thing, but it's funny, it does play, I guess, a psychological where you're eating something cold where you're so conditioned to eating your meat warm.

Oh yeah, the Western culture has been lulled to, lulled, I don't know where else to say lulled to, but through cuisine. It's, we, people love to eat, and I don't blame them. Like, I mean, some people, you think they're just on this planet purely to eat, right? Some foods can taste so good, but you know what? I've come to really enjoy what I eat as well because I don't eat a lot of sugars and spices. I really taste everything much more. In fact, when I go to eat something else that's, say, cooked and prepared, it can be overbearing, and especially stuff now that's more chemical. You can almost taste it, can't you?

Yeah, you can.

It's crazy. Even just a little bit of like Himalayan sea salt sometimes is plenty if I want to do something like that, but typically when I eat the sirloin steak, I don't put anything on it. I just eat it like it is. But like I said, I'll take raw sort of ground beef and kind of dry that overnight and again—

How do you dry it? You just dry it in the oven?

Yeah, for 24 hours at about 80— I know it's probably lucky if it's 80 degrees in there, so it's very low temp. And I just put it in the fridge. I don't cover it. It's more or less full of bacteria or whatever, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't bother me. Then I might gently melt some raw cheese and put it on and maybe with some tomato or pineapple, and it's very good. You know, when you get into— if you want to like get into more tasteful things, like when you get into raw honey and raw avocado, that's magic when those two come together. You want to chop like an apple and mix it. Take raw avocado and raw honey and mix it together and chop an apple up and mix it. It's awesome. And same with— that was one meat dish I did do that even though I don't like to mix animal proteins with vegetable fats, I would get— I was getting some ground buffalo and having it ground fine and then I would mix it with raw avocado and raw honey and that was amazing. That was amazing. But you get into like if you get cork cheese and raw cork cheese mixed with raw honey, it's just like cheesecake. If you just add like blueberries or fresh berries in season, it is just like cheesecake. Raw chocolate with raw butter and raw honey alone is really good, but then you can add just a bit of coconut, cold-pressed coconut oil for a macaroon and some raw cocoa powder and it is— that's the real thing. That's the real chocolate and it tastes awesome. So there are many foods out there in the raw food camp that are actually quite good, but you know, Our culture is just all around the world, we have, you know, they all have their different ways of cooking foods and they've all mastered over the centuries. And we were a species that just likes to eat. It's funny, like no other animal on the planet eats like that but us. But, you know, it's tough. It's tough for a lot of people to switch because exactly what you said. They like the meat warm or hot, you know, with the spices on it and tastes good, but I've come to enjoy it the way I eat it. And like I said, when you're hungry, anything tastes good.

True. You said you don't mix vegetable fats with animal fats. Why is that?

I won't digest it properly. I'll just blow up. I tried doing that flaxseed oil way back with some meat and it was horrible. Wow, that was not a good mix at all. You know it because I'm a performance eater. I do it. I eat in a manner that it doesn't bog me down because I'm working a lot of hours a day. Sometimes I come in in the morning at midnight and whether I'm training people or just writing and I don't want to be sleeping in my chair. So I know how to combine. It's a matter of learning your body. Bodybuilding is one— that's one good thing about it. Because you do come to learn your body, especially with raw food eating. You really come to learn your body and how to— what mixes well with me, what doesn't mix well with me, and vegetable fats and animal proteins were not one, even though I did get away with that honey, avocado, and ground buffalo more so, but not so much with the oils. I like to just keep it raw. Raw eggs with raw meat work very well for me. Raw eggs and raw chicken would work well. You'd think it would since the chicken and the egg all come from the same source. But butter, butter is, I would tend to put with more with beef, but I'm careful with butter because while butter detoxes, it's a very powerful detoxifier, and I still have drugs coming out of me from way back. So I'm careful with how much butter. I have.

Okay. And do you have your veggies raw as well, or do you lightly cook them? I mean, there's lectins in vegetables. Is that something we have to be concerned of?

I don't eat that many vegetables. I juice them. I can't, I just can't. I like, I love the taste of them, but they just tear me up. Again, I ate a whole carrot last night, and I just laid in bed. It woke me up at 4 o'clock. I feel it going through me. It's just, I don't know what it is. I just don't digest them very well. I can juice them fine, and I did juice carrot juice from bodybuilding. Where they take it with raw eggs, but I'll juice greens, parsley, celery, zucchini, carrots. Once in a while, I don't do much juicing with fruits, but I will treat myself once in a while and mix it with some cream so it's not too much of a sugar spike. But I will have some raspberries here and there once in a while. Sometimes I'll have bananas with raw eggs. Again, if bananas are commercially produced, I'll have them with But again, I don't do overly well with fruits and vegetables. My staples are meat, eggs, and dairy. And that's grass-fed, that dairy comes from grass-fed cows. And again, the eggs are pastured. You got to remember, people say, that's all you eat. You know, people have been kept alive solely on raw milk.

Yeah.

You know, Wiltgemar Stephenson stayed alive solely on meat. You know, so, plus the eggs. I mix like the milk, the meat, the eggs, and I serve some raw honey, some fruits, and some juiced vegetables, and some wine in the summer, and that keeps me alive. But I tried veganism for 4 and a half years in the 1980s, and it was a disaster for me. Yeah. I lost all my strength as a bodybuilder. I mean, I I stopped benching, I stopped squatting, I stopped deadlifting because I lost all my strength doing it. And it took me 4 and a half years to come to the realization I did damage to myself. And I know a lot of people now, that was back in the '80s, I've come to meet a lot of people in my life who have gone through that experience, someone longer than mine. Apparently there's a good book out there called The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. 20 years of vegan, and she was involved with all aspects of veganism, politically, everything. And a whole group of her friends, they all abandoned it, and she was the last and the most stubborn, and she did the most damage to herself. Wow. I've not read the book. I've read some reviews on it. I'd like to get the book. I don't need to read it. I've done my own thing. Even researching with Muscle, Smoke, and Mirrors and looking at all the vegans in the physical culture field, they all abandoned veganism. Some went to milk and egg vegetarianism, but pure veganism, they all abandoned from— even the late Jack Lane just died, Dr. Fred Tilney, Paul Bragg, Mark Berry, Bernard McFadden, they all at one point were doing veganism and they abandoned it and started to eat some meat or to have dairy and eggs in their diet. So, like the Harvey Diamond and Marilyn Diamond wrote the Fit for Life books. That's what influenced me in the 1980s, and they abandoned it. They were adamant. They just blamed dairy and meat on everything back then. But see, again, a lot of vegans, they don't delineate between properly raised cows, raw milk, and properly raised meats. I have no argument with them at all when it comes to factory farming and the major cattle and dairy industry, that stuff, I don't have that stuff. If I can't get raw milk, I probably wouldn't consume any dairy at all.

Yeah.

But I mean, they've really— they have not framed the argument properly at all, the vegans, and they have to realize the historical precedence of animal products and animal fats. It has far more presence than what they're trying to push.

Absolutely.

And I've tried it. I can say I've tried it. I tried it for real. 4 and a half years was a good try. And I had to— you know, it takes a lot when you're an adult to say, look, I've screwed up. You know, I have to— other people were commenting my skin was a mess in terms of what was happening. And to say to yourself, I got to stop this now. I was very opinionated about it. You know, you try to push it on other people and then you realize that you made a mistake. And again, I know this is a very sensitive issue with some people, but it's just that, like I said, over the past 20 years I've met just so many who have gone that same route and have abandoned it and they're writing about it.

Yeah. And you mentioned before, you said, why cook food? Where did that really come from and why cook food? Why not have everything raw? I'd just like to get a little bit more on that.

Well, I'd take anybody's guess, like you got the paleo. There's all sorts of theories. There's a lot of evolutionary slants. There's a lot of creation slants. You know, even from a biblical perspective, this says we were vegan at the beginning, but something changed. A lot of the, from the spiritual angles, they did talk about veganism. And you know what? I had no problem. If that's the way it was then, that's the way it was. But that's not the way it is now. And that's something like some did happen because I said, hey, I'd be a vegan if it was healthy. I said, I like the fruits and I like the vegetables. They just don't like me. But you get to the evolution where they tried to pinpoint when we may have started using fire. You know, like I was just reading something about the Huns and they talk about, again, from Greek mythology, who gave us fire? you know, in terms of starting to cook food and stuff. It's all theory. It's all speculation. When did fire come into play? How long ago? 5,000 years? Farming come in 6,000 years, 10,000 years? Who taught us to farm? Like, well, you know, it's— they all speculate. You know, you hear this, um, some of the statements that are made by, you know, these, these, the doctors, PhDs, they sound ridiculous. They say, oh, you know, 10,000 years ago we domesticated cattle and poof, just by chance, we evolved the gene to digest it. And I read that again. What did he just say? 10,000 years ago, we domesticated cattle and poof, we evolved the gene to digest it. But that's a fairy tale. You know, that's bullshit. You know, like, I mean, it's just, come on, you want to try another one? You know, it's, again, like I said, all this stuff is speculation and theory. They don't have any concrete thoughts as to when we started anything, when anything came to bear, because one theory will be absolutely countered anecdotally by another one. It's like everything in this world. It's black and white. There's a polar extreme to everything, isn't there? Even from training principles to veganism to meat eating, it's just a polar to everything. It's called dualism, whatever. But again, I don't know. Where it came to play. Uh, I, I tend to think it was not a good thing that happened, obviously, because I, because I eat raw. Why it, why it took off as it did, and I don't know, from a hunter-gatherer situation, like, again, take, read, read, take your pick, read your theory and whatever, read all the different theories, and eventually you just throw it all up in the air and say whatever, because, you know, just use common sense then. Like, I mean just logically. Again, what you can't deny is the historical presence of animal foods in our diet, cooked or raw, you know, or combinations of the two. It is— Western Price clearly showed that. Even the amazing Hunza had dairy in their diet and some meat. The only reason they restricted their meat is because they didn't have it. They didn't— it wasn't abundant to them, and they were very healthy. But I mean, Price, you know, even Bob Hoffman, who wrote in 1940 Better Nutrition in the Field of Bodybuilding, noted the Maasai, the size of them, strength of them as compared to, I think, the Yakakura tribe, they were 6 inches taller, 30, 40 pounds bigger than that tribe that was more agrarian-based. They weren't total vegetarians, but they were more agrarian-based compared to the Maasai that drank the milk and the blood. These are big, strong guys. These are the guys that were taken as slaves, you know, and they're very, very strong and healthy. Not like what we've done to the African continent now, basically destroyed it and destroyed their food supply. It's not the way it was 200, 300 years ago. And even 60 years ago, Price actually studied these cultures at a very opportune time because they still were, he caught them halfway almost. They were still in their primitive state, but they were already starting to be compromised by civilization because the trading posts were there and there was commerce going on in their area. So he was able to actually study large families where half of them literally wanted to start to migrate towards our crap diet while the other ones stayed on their diets. And talking to doctors who worked with the Eskimos for decades and saying he never saw tuberculosis and cancers in the Eskimos unless they went to and ate our diet, you know, our canned meats and white flour, sugar, and canned fruits. And he said all he could do was basically send them back to their indigenous ways and often to reverse it. So he had his cameras, he had enough diagnostic tools to photograph and note all the— he was able to look at this from every single angle. I thought, you know, the mainstream doesn't like it because he produced enough material to slam-dunk just about every way we're practicing agriculture and handling our food supply today. But that's why his material in his book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, is not in schools anymore. It used to be required reading, I believe, in anthropology classes, but it's not. It's just because it's totally unethical to what— the way we've gone, the direction we've gone in terms of our food supply. You know, Dr. Robert Carrison was showing the true cause-effect relationship in diet and disease, Dr. Francis Pottinger, yet the doctors to this day still don't take nutrition in the course. What the hell's with that? You know, you can maybe make an argument 70, 80, 90 years ago. It's still not a very good argument back then because they were identifying vitamins, and nutritionally deficiency diseases, scurvy, rickets, beriberi. They knew, they started and identified them as vitamins. So they knew what it was, yet still to this day, nutrition is not taught. And the honest doctors will tell you too, that it's, you know, it's totally a reactionary, Western medicine is totally reactionary. There's hardly anything for preventative. You know, we'll treat the disease afterwards. Where you had guys like Dr. Alan Carrison years back saying, looking at it from a totally different perspective, looking at the Hunzas and say, why are you healthy? He does not want to look, he doesn't want to see a sick person try to take a crapshoot and try to figure out what's wrong, how to fix that. He wants to see a healthy person. Why are you healthy? And how can we keep you healthy? How can we get healthy? And he said the Hunzas were unmatched. The Sikhs and the Panthers, I think two tribes were pretty close to the Hunza, but the Hunza That's why in Muscle, Smoke, and Mirrors, the first volume, I compare the Tutsi diet to the 20th century bodybuilding, mirrored very closely both the Hunza diet and Eskimo. One being the dominant protein and fat with moderate to low carbohydrate, and the other one being almost a lacto-vegetarian diet with either— primarily with milk and egg or just milk and some meat. And based on 2 meals a day. Those dietary templates were extracted from the Hunza and from the Eskimo, and they were very close. Like Bernard Macfadden, Lionel Strongford, and a number of others ate very close to the Hunza, where a lot of the big strongman performers like the Saxon brothers and Sandow, they ate more towards the— higher proteins and higher fats and not as much carbohydrate and starch. In their diets.

But the key thing was they all had animal products.

They all had animal products. So I don't probably study any pure vegan. Even you could, in nature you really can't because even you get insect larvae on the plants and there's some type of animal product that's gonna be in the process of your veganism. Only in North America is the way veganism is unprecedented because our foods have been stripped clean with, you know, well, number one, they're full of pesticides, but the way it's been cleaned, everything's been wiped off in terms of any residue from, say, what nature would put on it. But again, unfortunately, people have to just go through years and see. It's a matter of how long you last on it, in my opinion.

So from your years of research, what have you found to be the most shocking thing that you've discovered?

Probably some of the stuff I won't talk about on the show in terms of nutrition. Yeah. The lying of the, actually, well, the food irradiating, that blew me away. I just thought, come on, you gotta be kidding. You're gonna try to tell me that subjecting food to radiation is good for us? I remember reading the one thing, it will destroy bacteria. Bacteria. It'll— I forget the wording. It was absolutely ludicrous, the wording, and I was supposed to believe that basically subjecting the food to radiation, that's going to be good for us. And from then on, it was just a slow, slow awake, and it's like, hey, nothing's going to surprise me anymore. Okay, that doesn't surprise me. That doesn't surprise me. If they're going to irradiate food, what else are they going to do to it? So there's nothing that actually horrifies me. Now, GMO foods are pretty scary.

Yeah.

What they're trying to snuff out and hide and suppress is the— some of the studies are showing the animals eating this food and the offspring have all sorts of issues, sterile, sickly, half lifespans, and it's what they're trying to cover this up. And again, it's— they're doing a lot of this stuff, genetic manipulation behind the scenes. We don't know what the hell they're doing. You know, what they talk about in mainstream is only the the tip of the iceberg of what they're doing covertly around various places around the world. But the GMO foods are something to be very concerned about, and especially when you got companies like Monsanto doing it. I mean, Vanity Fair just laid them right open in an article a few years ago. I don't know if they were sued or not because I remember reading it thinking, well, you know, Vanity Fair is mainstream media. They're not going to tear apart Monsanto without trying to salvage it at the end, redeem them at the end, and they didn't. They just tore them from pillar to post straight through. So they must be afraid of Monsanto as well, having to— basically the way they're messing with the food supply and the small farmers and the lawsuits that are going on, that's fairly disturbing stuff. Yeah.

What do you think is the biggest problem with nutrition today?

Garbage food. Garbage food. Actually, ignorance. When I say ignorance, it's not the people's fault. You know, we were born into a culture, um, we would like to think that we, our governing bodies are sincere and honest looking after us. They are not. They are basically controlled by these corporations. They're put in office by these corporations. But we go back, say, my, when I was younger going up in the '60s, there's no way, uh, our parent, my parents, or my generation's parents would ever suspect or could figure out that something was rotten in Denmark, right? I mean because we, at that point, it was our norm. We lived in the greatest societies in the world. We have, look at the technology we have, look at the freedom we've been told we had, and everything was hunky-dory and we would never question it. So, it's, you can't get mad at people when they look at you and like you're crazy if you're eating raw because why, why are you doing that? Like, I mean, for people, It's very— raw food is very effective for cancer. But they— people— I've had about 10 people come to talk to me about doing it, but none of them would end up doing it. They all died, but they wouldn't do it because inevitably some family member steps up and said no, because if it was any good, the doctors would know. See, the doctors would know about it. They don't want to dare think outside the framework that, okay, if the doctors don't know about it, And then why does this guy know about it? What's wrong with our system? What's wrong with society? They don't like thinking there. They don't like thinking that far out of the box. And they— people just go to their deaths even believing in a false, uh, you know, a false belief. It's— but because we were raised that way, we were raised to think that our government would never lie to us. And we're finding out that's all they do is lie to us.

Yeah.

See, now, now it's less— it's a less excusable than it was 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. Remember I told you about the congressional investigation of the tax shelters in 1953 when the lawyer— this is a very highly educated, intelligent woman, Catherine Casey— lost her mind? Because you got to remember, in the '50s, that's when it was— the United States was baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, Chevrolet, Yankee Doodle Dandy. The Allies, the good guys, is there's no way anything could be bad in the United States. And here she's reading about these elitists who are basically taking it over and disassembling it and indoctrinating the youth. And she lost her mind because she was forced out of the box. It wasn't like Randy or Mark telling, hey, you should want to read this. She's reading the minutes of the meetings, right? Her education tells her shows her what she's reading is official documentation of what was said and being planned in the meetings of the Carnegie Endowment Fund. And she couldn't deal with it. So now, okay, fast forward 60 years, we got the internet, we got all sorts, we're inundated with news and bullshit, you know, you got to search through it all, but nothing's so surprising anymore. So there is still a great level of indoctrination, but I find that more and more people are open. And I tell my I eat raw. Yeah, you still get the people freak out, but then you get other people who don't. And I've had very reasonable answers, people who would say, no, I don't want to do that, but I'll never say never, which is a very rational response. They'll say, if I had to, I would, but they go, I really don't want to do that. I said, you don't have to do it. You don't have to do it. I said, I do it because of my eyesight and the fact that I think it's the best diet bar none for bodybuilding. Right?

Yeah.

And I got used to it. I choose to do it, and I think it's very healthy. But, uh, there's still that level of indoctrination that is breaking away. People are starting to wake up and realize there's a lot of nonsense out there and a lot of lying going on. And in terms of the vaccinations being shoved down our throats, you know, and now it's— they found out they're, they're really upset now, the pharmaceutical and medical fields, because So many people this year, they did the poll and the percentage that took vaccines and flu shot dropped dramatically, especially after that, the garbage scam they pulled off with the H1N1 last year. That was a total dud. There's a lot of money being made off that. And then they exposed that these doctors in the World Health Organization had direct connection to the pharmaceutical companies that are creating the vaccines, you know?

Yeah.

It's one great big happy family there. So, but people are waking up and getting, finding out that they're taking these shots and getting sicker than ever.

Yeah. So do you think there's anything we can do to fix it?

Um, I just tell people don't get upset about it. You know, they want you to be fearful. They want you to be— keep you in fear. That's why the news is nothing but horror stories and stuff like that. Just, I don't know, it's hard to say. Be rational, educate yourself, and just do your thing the best you can in terms of, uh, doing the right thing, and eventually it will change. Because like I said, I do not believe we're gonna go into world governing. There's too much greed at the top, and these guys are fighting amongst themselves. And it's just a matter of more and more people are moving to healthier foods, wanting healthier foods, and this is demand. And you get companies that still do wanna make money, and if that's what the people want, supply and demand. Because the problem is that you get these companies to know what you want, but not to have these corrupt bastards who will say, well, let's just change the labeling and tell them what we have is what they want, and it's not, right? That's the big thing that's going on now, is to stop these guys from lying on the labels and say, hey, I got organic. It's not even close to organic, right?

Yeah.

But the demand is there, and the chefs, even the chefs of the world are saying our food is crap. You know, when our farmer got caught and raided here with his raw milk, a number of the chefs in Toronto stepped forward and said, backed him up, said, "We want this food. We want high-quality food and raw milk to do our cooking." The government has no right to tell us these things. Nobody has a right to tell another person what they can and cannot take for their health. You know, that's— where do they think they got that right to be able to do that? They're not protecting us, especially when it's so obvious behind the scenes they're Protecting the benefactors, and that's the big corporations, right?

Yeah, definitely. So yeah, I was gonna ask you actually, if it doesn't get fixed, where do you see the world going in nutrition? But you do, you're pretty confident that—

Well, there's gonna be a big drop-off in the populations because when you sterilize, one thing they do know for a fact, and maybe this is one of their agendas, if you sterilize the food supply, you inevitably sterilize your population. Because Dr. Francis Potter showed this back in the '40s when he did his cat study. He couldn't get past the third generation. He fed the cats raw foods and he fed them cooked processed foods, and the cooked processed food group could not get past the third generation, they went sterile. Well, of course, they had all the diseases we see in our society today, all the skeletal anomalies, all the soft tissue anomalies. But the big thing is, back then, they even knew if we didn't secure and procure our food supply, we would be looking at an issue with extinction, definitely population issues. It always seems to be the thing about overpopulating and stuff like that. So that's what will happen if they— if we pursue the same course. We're already seeing it. They predict— look at these guys for predicting it 80 years ago when we had all these orphanages. Now we have all those orphanages are— we got like a 6-8 year waiting list to adopt a child. And then we got all these fertility clinics because exactly what they predicted is happening, all this infertility. So that'll just get worse because the kids are being born weaker and weaker and weaker, you know. Then plus you got out all these kids on Ritalin and all these other drugs. So they have all sorts of issues going on because— and most of them, if they can get pregnant, will have weaker kids, and many of them won't be able to get pregnant.

And you've also— I've also just recently saw that GMO foods have a big impact on fertility for male and females as well.

Yeah, everything seems to have a thing on fertility. And again, we can— if you go down that topic and you look at, say, the What the guys like Brzezinski and Kissinger, especially Kissinger, has written about. Rockefellers, they're all talking about overpopulation. Look at, there's a YouTube out there with Gates. Now some people think it was just a little Freudian slip of his, but I don't think it was. He's on there on YouTube, you could look at him, look him up. He's talking about population going from 6 to 9 billion, but they should be able to, with modern medicine vaccines, we should be able to drop that by 15%. So, you know, what's he saying? Okay. You know, that's one of the big scares of people with the vaccines. They think they're trying to use it to, uh, control population because Kissinger has written that in some type of documentation about 30 years ago, talked about population control through vaccines. I can't remember the name of the document, but there's tons of this stuff out there. If you— but again, you don't have to read or believe in conspiracy. You just see it happening now with all the people who cannot get pregnant.

Yeah.

And the fact that they have all these fertility clinics, and it's just going to get worse if they don't if we don't do something in terms of fixing our food supply.

So let me ask you, what motivated and inspired you to tell this story?

I don't know. The book, like I said, officially the book began in 2002, but really when I look at my library here, it actually probably began 30 years ago when I started reading this stuff. Something in the back of my head 20 years ago said I want to write a book, but I remember also when I thought of that, I immediately thought like, what are you going to write? Write a book. You know, I didn't know at the time, but I— the book started as just a request from the Western Price Foundation to do this little blurb on the history of some of the nutrition in bodybuilding, and I thought it should be very easy, but then I found out it wasn't going to be easy at all. I said you can't even— you can't tell the history of nutrition in bodybuilding without telling the history of bodybuilding, and you can't tell the history of bodybuilding without telling the history of the iron game. And then you get into the whole history of alternative versus orthodox medicine. And all of a sudden now you got this scope and this incredible politics going on. Because when you get into the medicine and you talk about who controls it, now you're talking about the global architects. And you're talking about the same guys who own the oil, the same ones that control private banking, pharmacy, all that stuff. So it just kind of proliferated and it's not that I necessarily wanted to tell that story. It just kind of evolved into it. It's, you know, like a lot of people are writing about it and there are a lot of books coming out. I just kind of taken the avenue of the fitness industry. I think the fitness industry's got to wake up. The amount of stuff that the— like bodybuilding and this whole physical fitness boom now, a lot of it arose out of physical culture, which were the early bodybuilders called themselves physical culturists. And for the first 50 years of this 20th century, we were probably the, the best source of information on health and well-being. It was whole natural foods and exercise. Then the supplement industry came in, and yet many of the original supplements were derived from industrial waste. And that's just the way it was, but they found that there was a lot of money to be made off of it. Now, I'm not calling all supplements today industrial waste. I'm just saying like stuff like brewer's yeast and soy and even whey protein powder, whey itself was a biological hazardous waste because they weren't allowed to dump it in water because of its effect on the water. But I'm not saying that whey in itself, like raw whey, is bad for you, but it was classified that way. But you can argue that soy is not good for you and other things, but my point was It changed everything. It was so lucrative, financially lucrative, because food— it's one thing to sell a barbell. You sell a barbell, you just lost a customer because he doesn't need to come back for another one, right? You sell him supplements, he's back monthly. So this was a boon to the fitness industry, and it went crazy. It just took off. And now today, everybody who works out thinks all these muscles that come from powers and pills, and it doesn't. It comes from food. And even if you want quality supplements, they have to be derived from quality food sources, right? But a lot of, a lot of the fitness industry and bodybuilding today, even the natural bodybuilding, are lost in terms of what constitutes real health and well-being. Bodybuilding, especially competitive bodybuilding, is not at all synonymous with good health. Not at all. You know, anybody can start— you know, the condition that I think the worst thing that they ever did was try to follow the drug guys. Back in the '80s, when they started to get into more GH, GH doesn't make you bigger, it allows you to get leaner. And now suddenly you had the Christmas tree, you know, you're so lean, your lower back and your lats look like a Christmas tree, that the natural guys try to follow this as well. And it's very difficult to get that lean without drugs. And typically when the result is you look like shit. You know, you're so gaunt and unhealthy, you have sunken cheeks and it is not a healthy state to be in at all and that's what basically bodybuilding has become, a starvation contest. And again, the amount of drugs that the professionals are taking today is absolutely ridiculous. But that's just the way, that's just the way it is. I think they got to wake up and realize that in the fitness industry, they're going to number one lose, they may even lose this upper body. If the regulations go through and that they have to understand the power that's in real whole natural foods.

Absolutely. So, it was a lot of things that inspired you to write the book?

Nothing inspired me to write the book. I just kind of got dragged into it. A lot of people, when I wrote the article, said there's a lot of information. Dr. Maldipascuale said, "You got a lot of information here." He said, "This is He thought of the book immediately, and Ron Kossow from Natural Source Products said it should be a book when I wasn't even thinking at all, maybe a pamphlet, something like that. Then it just started growing. All of a sudden, it just took off from there, and suddenly it's no longer one volume. It had to be two volumes, then it had to be three volumes, and people just started opening up and talking more. I just— what I found when I retired, I used to be a computer programmer by trade, but my eyesight went and retired out of that. It does give me more to do other than just training people. It is fun in some sense, frustrating in some sense, especially trying to get the information in a format that I can read it and deal with it, but it keeps me busy that way. So, I probably The inspiration is that it does keep me occupied and busy. And I want to tell the story. I mean, I thought, you know, I love working out ever since I was a kid. I love bodybuilding, even though bodybuilding takes a lot of hits and gets criticized a lot. I got a lot out of it. It gave me a lot of fun. So I've invested a lot of my money into this book and I got angry with somebody, one guy out there accused me of taking— he said this book was obviously funded by the Weston Price Foundation, which it was not. Nobody gave me any money for it. Price Foundation hasn't even reviewed the book in over 2 and a half years. So I've invested thousands of dollars of my own money into it, and it's my contribution back. And I like the fact that so many do appreciate what I've done in terms of trying to get accurately as I can. Of course, it's history through my lens, right? Everybody who writes is going to look at things from a slightly different perspective. So obviously the book is from my perspective, but I try to get it as accurate as possible.

Absolutely. So is there any other final thoughts or things that you'd like to add?

I think I pretty well just about— this is probably one of the longest interviews I've done. I think I pretty well said as much as I can.

Well, excellent.

Without getting into too much what I'm writing about in my current— yeah, that I hope to have out. I definitely want to have volume 2 out this, this year. It is, um, going to be the same. It was originally supposed to be the 1970s and the 1980s. Uh, it got too big again, and it's just going to be the 1970s. Arthur Jones is probably 25% of this volume. Arthur's got a small book within a book in this one. And I got some good stuff with Arthur and pumping iron and, you know, right out of the blocks. This is— it's, it's the era of Schwarzenegger and a lot of things going on. I deal with all the issues and the politics and stuff that's going on, some stuff going on behind the scenes. And not as much nutrition in this volume, probably 3 chapters, possibly 4, but that'll pick up more in the next volume again. There'll be more on nutrition and nutrition politics and politics. I'll pick that. Volume 3 will be a combination of Volume 1 and 2. Where Volume 1 was nutrition, politics, and some little bit of politics and a lot of bodybuilding, Volume 2 is a lot of bodybuilding, and number 3 will be a combination of the first 2 again.

Excellent.

But it'll all be around the same. This book here will probably go over 600. It might even be slightly bigger than the first one, which is 562 pages. It'll probably go over 600.

Well, I can't wait to read it. So thank you so much for today, Randy. If you want more information, visit randyroach.ca. I'll just add that I have the book, Muscles, Smoke and Mirrors. I did a review on YouTube, so you can check that out. It is an absolutely fantastic book that is chock-a-block full of so much information. You know, I think it starts at the, what, 1850s, the book? Is that right, Randy?

It goes back theoretically, the first chapter I have fun, I go back a couple thousand years. But primarily it takes off in the 1800s and mostly the 20th century, up to the end of the 1960s.

So yeah, you're looking at a lot of Great information about the history of bodybuilding and nutrition, and it's a very important read to know where things actually started from and came from, because once you know that, you really have the power to make the right decisions and not be trapped by traditions and doing things the one way that perhaps isn't the most effective way of doing things. So again, I'd like to thank you, Randy, for doing this interview, and definitely go check out the book. You can get it on Amazon and Randy Roach's website. Roach.ca. So check it out, and thanks, Randy.

Thank you, Mark.

Thank you. How's that for a trip down memory lane? Hope you enjoyed that interview. That was a doozy with Randy Roach, folks. My name is Mark Ottobre, owner and director of Enterprise Fitness. If you like these podcasts, make sure you subscribe to us on iTunes. Check us out online. It's Melbourne Personal Trainers www.bodybuildingbusiness.com.au, and our YouTube account is very active. We add videos all the time from everything from inside about nutrition, what to eat, how to eat, when to eat, all that kind of stuff, what supplements to take, et cetera, et cetera, to actual training workouts. So we've got some workouts there with WBFF pros. We've got Lisanna Keely up there. I took her through a deadlift workout. We've got Anna McManamee. She's up there. Took her through a workout, shoulders and back, that you can have a look at. So there's just some, some two of the videos obviously that we've got heaps on YouTube. If you need help folks, need help with your training, I've got a team, a team of trainers who I obviously spend a hell of a lot of time with and train them to be the very best in industry. Check them out, melbournepersonaltrainers.com. We can help you get in shape with all your needs. Anyway folks, till the next podcast, hope you're enjoying the vintage re-release of the podcast show. My name is Mark Ottobre. Till next time, train hard, supplement smart, and eat well.