S3:E5 - Ed Coan Podcast

Welcome to the show that entertains and educates. Welcome to The Wolf's Den. My name is Mark Ottobre and today's guest, well, what Michael Jordan is to basketball, what Tiger Woods is to golf, what Arnold Schwarzenegger is to bodybuilding, Ed Coan is to powerlifting. I want you to imagine going into the gym and putting 10 20-kilo plates on one side of the bar and another 10 20-kilo plates on the other side out of the bar. It's a lot of plates. That's 20 20-kilo plates. Now imagine getting under that bar and squatting it for one rep. Well, ladies and gentlemen, even if you did that, you still wouldn't break Ed Coan's squat record. Ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together for Ed Coan. Welcome to the show, sir.

Thanks for having me, Mark.

Thank you. The honor and pleasure is all mine. How have you been finding Australia?

Oh, it's always fun. I come here every year, sometimes twice.

What's been a career— I mean, there's so many career highlights from you breaking 71 world records or more than that. Some of them still exist.

I never counted.

Yeah, a lot. What's been some of the career highlights along the way?

Actually, like a lot of my trophies and all that stuff are at my sister's houses. And so I don't really care about that. Records are nice. I mean, the accolades are great, but I can go anywhere in the world and have friends. So that's pretty cool.

That is very cool. In terms of gifts, in terms of powerlifting, you know, some people talk about levers, some sort of, I mean, one of the gifts that you have is the size of your hands. Amazing. Can we get a close-up for the camera? These are just ordinary hands and Cone hand. How instrumental just on that topic do you think it is to be set up?

Well, you never have to worry about a grip problem. Yeah. But I think overall, just by being able to grip things tighter has a certain effect on your whole upper body anyways. Just by being able to squeeze goes through your arms, your shoulders, your lats and stuff like that.

But if we talk about the anatomy of someone's, outside of grip, obviously, some people talk about, if I've got long arms, therefore I'm gonna be a bad bench presser.

That's bullshit 'cause I have really, really long arms too. I have a long torso and short legs. So it really wasn't as advantageous as people would think because of the way I lifted. If you're smart enough, you find a way to use your gifts in the right manner and technique to complement what your sport or with me, it's squat, bench, deadlift.

So it's not just about, so in terms of achieving that world record, you think it's more about what you put into it rather than just being set up for something?

Yeah, I mean, everyone can train hard, but you have to train smart and then you gotta find the right position for your body to be in. For how you're built to get the most out of it.

If we can talk about like the Ed Coan training system, 'cause a lot of people talk about their training systems, whether it's 5x5 or 5-3-1, wave loading, et cetera. You were very much, from what I understand in speaking to you, is it's all about the way you felt, but at the same time you did blend into that, you pre-planned all your numbers ahead of time. So if you just speak to the guys and explain.

I would have, if it was like 10, 12, 14-week training cycle, I would have every set, rep, weight, exercise planned out beforehand to get me where I wanted to go and I would never deviate from it. But I'd know that before I even started the training cycle, you can't go into the training cycle and change anything 'cause then it changes your goal at the end. Changes the result right away.

So you said something at the Strength Summit, which was over the week on Thursday and you said the way you live your life is also the way you trained and that's, with a plan. How did you get to those numbers though? So, you know, I mean, like number one, so if we wanted to mimic and model you as, you know, you're the peak of the sport and we wanted to model you as, you know, obviously the lifter and we wanna decipher what you actually did, where do we start? Like how many days a week would we be training? Do we prioritize?

I usually only train 4.

Okay, and how would you set those up?

A squat day on Monday, Tuesday would be bench day with, accessories, a lot of tricep work. Wednesday would be off, Thursday would be deadlift and all back work. And Friday would be another upper body light day with extra accessories in there.

What were your go-to accessories?

But see, I treated my compound accessories, my heavy ones, just like my main lifts. Because at the end of the day, if I've gotten stronger in all these extra lifts, I've gotten like, a big strong suit of armor wherever you hit, there's a chunk of muscle and strength there that complements all the other lifts so there's no weakness.

If we were gonna write a book, you know, the Ed Coan System and try and decipher that of how do you come up with the numbers? So let's just say for example, I wanna hit a 260 kilo deadlift, my best deadlift right now is 240 kilos or even, you know, let's round it up and say 300, right?

First it has to be doable.

Right.

You're not gonna go from 240 to 260 in a training cycle.

So where should we be aiming at then?

What you would do, you would give yourself an estimate and you may have to write it down a few times. I used to write my training routines down dozens and dozens of times with different numbers till I found out what was doable. Well, you start at the back end, the last training week and then you just work your way back, sets, reps, weights and all the other stuff and see if everything is doable. From the start when you get there. If not, erase it, start over again, write new numbers in till you find out what's gonna be doable.

So what would you expect if you're using my example of 240, what would you try and achieve in a training cycle?

It would depend on how new you were to the sport, it would depend on injuries, it would depend on how I watch you, how your technique is. If your technique's off, well, once you have a technique change for the better, well, you're gonna have a chance of it going up even higher. If you're like a seasoned veteran, you wouldn't worry, that's usually stuff you don't even have to worry about. So you would just break it down even further, usually it's number selection then for a veteran.

So for you, were you aiming, like let's say for example, your first time you hit 300 kilo deadlift, right? Were you going then, I'm gonna try and get 310, 320? What was your thought?

Yeah, I would, I would look at what I did the previous training cycle and I would just up it a little bit at the start.

What's a little? 10 kilos, 5 kilos?

Yeah, but see, the mistake people, they don't think about is if I upped it 10 kilos from the last training cycle, that means almost every single exercise I do though throughout the whole training cycle, let's say it's 12 weeks, is upped no matter how minute a percentage. So look at total volume and total weight added the whole training cycle and how much more you lifted that adds up in different spots. So it's not like I just added 10 kilos onto the squat. Well, I added extra weight on bent-over rows, on stiff leg deadlifts, on squats, on pause squats, on overhead presses, on you name it. I added weight to that the whole time. So as a cumulative effect at the end, It wasn't just 10 kilos. You see what I mean?

Yeah, I get what you mean. The whole total tonnage of that.

Yes.

How long would a workout for you, like, you know?

It depends on how heavy I went.

Right.

Yeah. You know, the main exercise I would take more time and then the other ones I speed it up just a little bit.

Shortest workout, longest workout?

Shortest workout could be just an hour and a half.

And longest?

3 hours.

Right. And did you have a warmup? Like what was your rituals? If we were gonna go—

We didn't, see, no one knew. The only thing people knew back then was just, a little bit of stretching stuff and some just warmup on different exercises. No one knew anything about mobility or anything back in those days.

Do you think that was, what was it to your detriment or was actually to your favor that you weren't, you were staying kind of functional tightness for powerlifting?

A little bit of both 'cause you start learning different ways to do things, to warm up and to stretch properly, to get yourself to where you wanna be. And sometimes, people get too, I would say anal about having to do the newest thing that Kelly Starrett puts out or this guy puts out or you gotta try this shit. And instead of concentrating on what does your body really want and need that's gonna benefit it.

[Speaker] So I know there's a lot of powerlifters who'll be watching this on YouTube and listening to it on the podcast. And they probably watch a lot of your stuff and everyone's thinking the same thing, or at least I am from my perspective is how did he do it? Because your records for the most part probably won't be broken any time in the near future, especially at the weight class you did at 100 kilo weight class. How did you do it?

I actually, it was actually really simple, but it's how you apply it. Like I said, when you pick all the right exercises and all the right weights and stuff like that and pick your assistance exercises properly to work on your weaknesses in the off season, that's all my off season was, was weakness training. That's the genius part of it. So look, if you do 4, 5, 6 training cycles, however long you had them in a year and just do that for 5 years and pick all the right weights and do all the right exercises the whole time, what are you gonna look like after 5 years and how strong are you gonna be?

Amazing.

It's pretty cool.

But then I suppose that begs the question of, okay, well, how do I come to the conclusion of the right weights? And then how do I come to the conclusion of the right exercises?

Just look at where do you stall at in a lift and what does your physique look like?

Right, and when you say what your physique look like, it's where you're lacking muscle?

Yeah, usually, usually, I mean, I was brutally strong from here to here. So my whole off-season was a closer stance, high bar Olympic lifting squat all off-season. It was deficit deadlifts with no belt or stiff leg deadlifts on a deficit with no belt. It was benching with my feet up in the air. It was more close grips and shoulder work.

And you've also said about that with your body and having long arms, a lot of the time people would say, shorten the range of distance on the bench. For you, your best bench was, I know you've said before that you've benched at multiple different grips and widths, but your best bench was with a close grip?

A closer grip, yeah.

Yeah.

Just where my strength was.

Which goes obviously in contrast to what the—

What you're taught to believe.

Yes. So not many people, there's very few people in the world, it's probably 0.01% of people in the world have achieved in what you've achieved, obviously not just in powerlifting, but in anything in the world, what life lessons, like what are some tips to that success, that level of success?

Take your time and stick to the plan. I didn't worry what anyone else did, I only worried about myself as long as I could get better, that's all I cared about. So when I went into a contest, my idea was, what can I do today and not miss? I can't do anymore based on what anyone else is doing. It's only what my body could do, so I didn't care about it.

Let's go into the genesis of Ed Coan. As a child, were you a particular skinny child? Were you picked on?

Short, 4'11", 45 kilos when I entered high school.

So where does this passion and pure love for powerlifting come from?

Well, I was pretty introverted, so I tried to bodybuild and then I met Arnold. And when I turned around, my head was in his chest. So I couldn't be Arnold, so I tried to be Franco 'cause he was short and he liked strength. Then I saw Bill Kazmaier lift on TV at a powerlifting meet. And I was like, well, you could be that big, that strong, not have to diet like that, wear those skimpy trunks on stage and pose. So I tried that and I just loved it right away.

Was there ever a fear element with the type of weights that you were lifting? Did fear ever come into your mind?

More apprehension than fear. As long as I set up properly, then the lift was gonna go how it was supposed to. 'Cause my training dictated that already.

If you're working with athletes, again, say powerlifters watching this, who, you know, their PR, they're coming up to their PR or they're getting numbers that they haven't done before, what's your advice?

Just make it feel light. Really, I treated lightweights like I did heavyweights. So it was always the same way done. I could walk out of weight, I could walk up to a deadlift, set up for a bench, everything was exactly the same all the time. So that variable was already gone. So there was no negative thought walking up to the bar. I didn't need to be slapped or need ammonia or anything like that 'cause I was confident.

Why don't you ever use ammonia? Well, why do guys use ammonia and why didn't you?

My personal reason is I think people need it to break negative thoughts.

Have you ever coached or seen lifters using it and you thought, pulled them aside and said, hey—

So what a waste of energy.

Yeah.

Save it.

And then like psyching up to the bar, you never did that?

No, I didn't have to.

Have you ever brought something like a powerlifter aside and say, hey, you know, I'm Ed Coan, stop doing this.

Save your energy.

Yeah, and they listen and they go better?

Usually.

Yeah, so it would be a mistake to then over-psych up.

It's a waste of energy, mentally and physical.

Now the wraps that you used to use to squat, can you talk a little bit about that?

They were just old, Cloth-like 2-meter knee wraps.

Not to the same standard of—

No, not even close. We didn't even have knee sleeves back then. They weren't even invented yet.

And how are your knees today?

Well, after I made a mistake on stage of setting up wrong, I blew my patella in half. I've never had a knee problem.

Can you tell us that story?

When I set up, and we used to have to walk it out like men, um, as I set up too fast and I put I had my right leg out just a little too far. So on the way down, it started coming in and I was like standing in front of a train knowing it's gonna hit you. And it just snapped in half.

Now what did you say?

That's a YouTube video.

Yeah, I actually had to watch it.

Yeah, Ed Cohen injury.

Yeah, what did you say when that happened?

Ow. I kind of screamed at first, but then I realized when it snaps in half, everything goes dead. So I didn't feel a thing.

There's an urban legend that you said at one point, get me out the way.

Oh, I did. Yeah, I did, because I would— there was another round after me. There's a third round of squats, so I said, just get me off on stage. The other guy's got to squat.

This is with your patella snapped in half. Yeah, absolutely incredible.

I have a cousin who's a good orthopedic surgeon.

So has there been any other injuries along the way?

Not— I mean, I got chunks of stuff missing, but that's going to happen a lot of times when, when you're young and you start growing really, really fast. Something's gonna give at some point. So it was like I learned from my mistakes. But I've got 2 new hips. My mom had osteoarthritis her whole life. So I got that gene. So I had to have my hips replaced.

When you say there's chunks of stuff missing, what exactly do you mean?

Muscle. Put your hand right there.

Right.

Yeah, that's a chunk.

How did that one happen?

I was like 18 years old and at 82.5 kilos, I was already benching. Like 220. And I was like, well—

220 kilos?

Yeah.

Wow.

So I was like, well, you know, 2 days of bench is great, let me throw another day in.

At 18?

Yeah.

Geez. So was your, 'cause you know, benching 220 at 18, you know, there's not many 18-year-olds who would ever get close to those numbers at 18. Yeah, it could have been 19 or so, but it was when you were young.

I was young, yeah.

So was that your first, noticing, you know, maybe there's actually something different about me?

No, I never thought anything different about me. I just like to train. I didn't think about any of that.

So it really is an internal process. So, okay, this is what I really wanna get at because in some ways, like I'm spending a bit of time with you, I saw you at the summit, I got to speak to you on camera, but how do you control, like it seems to me at least that you have such an internal process of the way you live your life. So how do you get rid of the distractions of life? I mean, are you aware of them or is it just a matter of you just focus on you?

It's not a distraction, I didn't care. I only cared about lifting. That was what I wanted to do, that was my main focus. That's my goal the whole time was lifting. And I didn't have to give up anything 'cause I was already rewarding myself by lifting 'cause that's what I loved.

So how would a day look like for you back when you were just lifting?

I slept a lot. I ate a lot of whatever I wanted based on my weight class. My rationale with my diet back then was, well, if your mind controls what your body does, I'm gonna keep my mind really happy. So I did whatever I can within the weight class, but we didn't know enough about nutrition, we just trained. I think the sleeping part, I used to sleep all the time.

How many hours?

Never counted.

But like when you say like you'd go to bed, so you train, what time would you normally get up and train?

Usually in the morning. I would be at the gym by 10:00 and then there'd be another 2-hour nap in the day, before and after meals and then little TV and whatever else at night and then back to sleep.

Were you working at that stage or?

Not really.

When you did start working, what was your profession?

I just trained people.

And a lot of them went on to powerlifting comps?

Some, but it was more about people wanting to feel and look better. Not all of them even competed, but they just wanted to be strong.

If we can go back to the topic of injuries, 'cause I know it's hit me. I mean, are they inevitable in powerlifting?

No. Some people say yes, I say no. If you do everything the right way, you're not gonna get hurt.

And I know a mutual friend of ours, a great guy, you know, big guy in powerlifting, Emad. I'm gonna have him on at some point and interview him.

Good luck trying to get him on.

I know he's agreed, so I've got it on here and so I'll get him on, I know I will. But he's a guy, his story is absolutely incredible, blows my mind 'cause he had 3—

His arm.

Yeah, severe injuries with his arm.

Yeah, spiral fractures and stuff.

And came back. And so I suppose the question is injuries, they're setbacks, you're on momentum and I don't know if it's happened to you, well, it has happened because you were squatting and you had the snap. How did you motivate yourself to get back? All right, now I'm not squatting, you know, my 400 kilos.

It was no big deal. I just wanted to come back. So I did what I had to do to get back. But if you just take your time, if you don't take your time and rush it, you're not gonna get back to where you were and what you love to do. So I didn't, I was just focused. It's how bad do you want it?

[Speaker] So the internal process of, all right, I wanna hit this PR, let's say it's 400 kilos, snap my knee, I've gotta start back again. No big deal, you know, what was the timeframe that you thought you'd get back in?

I didn't squat for 6 months and as soon as I did it just boom, went straight back up. I gave myself time to heal the right way.

So you allowed the 6 months, didn't stress out about the process.

No.

It's kind of completely the opposite.

I never even looked at my leg for 6 months. I didn't wanna look at it.

All right, was that a psychological? Yeah. Yeah. Down spiral?

Yeah, it would probably make me depressed. So I was like, no, don't look at it. Just as long as your range of motion is coming back, you're starting to get back strength, don't even worry about it.

Were you training during those 6 months?

Yeah, every other thing I could do, yeah.

So just not legs?

All my upper body stuff, yeah. And a little bit of the other leg.

Yeah, single leg. Yeah. Like lunges, you put some weight on.

Just light leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls, little things.

So again, what advice, like, you know, you must've had it heaps of time. Hey Ed, you know, I'm injured. I feel really bad, I'm in a depressed state, blah, blah, blah. What do you say to those guys?

Do you wanna get better?

And if they say yes, they say, yeah, cool.

Take your time. Whatever the doctor tells you to do, do extra at home and don't try to go too heavy. All right. Too many people try to go way too heavy right away. They test it, which is a mistake. You don't have to, you don't test it. When you come back, you just slowly move up according to how you can do it. You don't say all of a sudden, well, let me see how this feels. That's not a good thing.

[Speaker] So the mindset for you, you really just happy powerlifting, but I mean, there's something to your mindset that I'm trying to deconstruct in that you've reached such a high level and it doesn't necessarily, this question relates to just powerlifting, but let's take business, bodybuilding, any sport. What is the mindset that you think Well, what is your mindset and what do you think is the mindset to create a champion?

It's how fucking bad do you want it? If you want it, then you have to earn the right to have it too. So you got to put in your time. And that's it. Whether it's business, well, then you stay late. Well, then you study later. Then you figure out, then you say, well, fuck, I don't need this meal. I got to get a meeting. I got to do this. You sacrifice a lot of shit to get to what you want. So you can live your life the way you want later.

And food for you, you said there was a balance of keeping yourself happy. What's your favorite foods? Like what would that look like?

Well, favorite cheat food is a hot fudge sundae or donuts. But usually like now it's just meat and rice, more Stan Efferding vertical diet stuff that keeps it simple.

How many calories would you be eating back when you were?

Never counted. I could look in the mirror and the scale, that's all I cared about. How do I feel in the gym? There.

And there was, was there a routine with your food?

Not really. When I was hungry, I ate.

Supplementation-wise?

Very little, very little. Most of the stuff back then was shit anyways. You end up just spending more time on the toilet shitting out your money.

True, true. Is that something with Stan Efferdin, have you been looking into more supplementation-wise?

Yeah, I traveled and we did, we did a bunch of seminars together. So, I mean, he's on speed dial so I can ask him anything.

Yeah, what have you brought into your routine now?

It's just, it's more just keeping it simple. I watch what he does and I learned what the vertical diet's all about and it just makes it a lot more simple. It, you know, there's like, there's good, there's better and there's best. I try to stay, to the upper part of better. If you, the best is for someone who is like at the top of their sport and has this huge goal that they have to compete that's at the end. I can maintain better for a lot longer period of time than I can maintain best. So it makes me a lot healthier along the way.

Supplementation, have you added anything in?

Little shit, just vitamin D3 and some other little things.

And that's pretty much.

That's it.

That's it.

That's it.

Coming back to the rules, I suppose, of powerlifting, this is something I spoke to Sebastian Oreb with, and he quotes like the Lilliebridge family, for example, the rules that apply to say someone who's super strong squatting 400 kilos, there are different rules for someone who's squatting only say 200 kilos and there's different rules to say someone's gonna be over 100 kilos.

Well, usually someone who squats 400, they have better technique and a little more knowledge of the game, they've been doing it for a long time, they have some experience. Someone who's not squatting that much, if they're large enough, like if you had a little guy squatting 200 kilos, well, he might've been doing it for a long time. But in general, someone who's doing that doesn't have as much knowledge and experience behind them, so they have to be careful more.

What are the most common mistakes that you see? Let's go through each lift, but what are the common pitfalls that you see, like with squat?

Technique and people going too heavy.

That's pretty much across the board. Yeah. And I mean, obviously there's a lot of good coaches where people go to a powerlifting comp and the thing I love about actually competing is it tells you if your technique is actually any good, 'cause you have to squat to depth, you have to bench properly, you obviously have to deadlift properly, lock it out.

My thing is it has to feel really natural and look really good for your body to do it the way it wants to do it. So there's no really set perfection, it's more perfection per individual.

In a study, like I've been privileged enough to meet a lot of high-level athletes who have achieved great things. One of the universal truths is almost paradoxical, which is, find out what works for you. So people say, find out what works for you and it gets thrown around a lot, but then at the same time, find out what works for you. There's not a lot, say for the beginner watching this—

They don't know what's good for them.

Exactly.

So that's why you need a coach or you You just gotta take your time with lighter weight.

Have you seen any, like, what are the universal truths? Like someone watching this go, right, this is guaranteed. What are Ed Coan's like guaranteed principles?

Just take your damn time.

Take your damn time, focus on technique.

Yeah, and build a huge base. I went after each contest, I went back and did power bodybuilding shit where I built a bigger, stronger base.

I love that term power bodybuilding. I feel like a lot of the time now in today's routines, we're not really seeing as much power bodybuilding. You're seeing a segmentation of bodybuilders and oh, they're the powerlifters where, you know, I think it kind of has gone in waves almost like it used to be everyone all together, then, you know, separation, then everyone came together.

A lot of people like at the beginning of my routine was more reps, more different exercises, less rest. Well, now it's called a hypertrophy routine and they charge you an extra $50 for it.

What's the highest reps that like in a training phase?

10.

10, yeah. For all supplementary as well?

Even, yeah, I never went that high with all this supplementary.

Did you do any routines where you were just, you know, repping out like singles, for example, like 10 sets of 1 or something?

No, there's some speed stuff you could do like 10 sets of 3 with little rest that can give you, that's an alternative for off-season training, you know, based on the Russian speed or explosive techniques. They were not as much into speed as they were on explosiveness. So you don't, it doesn't have to be necessarily a lightweight. As long as you forcibly try to explode and drive through that bar, you're still, your brain's still reacting and causing a response to make you more explosive.

So who are your biggest influences? You know, what systems is in that Russian, Westside?

Powerlifting USA, Westside wasn't even around then. Louie wasn't even a Westside. There was no Westside then. There was a friend of mine named Doug Furniss who was a really good powerlifter and athlete. And I would say Fred Hatfield.

Right. In the foreword of your book, which is Ed Cohn: The Man, the Myth, the Legend, Scott Fitzgerald wrote, "It was a body capable of enormous leverage, a cruel body." My first question is, well, who's Scott Fitzgerald?

He was a famous poet or something, writer back then.

Right.

Way, way back then.

Oh, so that wasn't—

Way before me. Way, way before me.

Yep, and he's the foreword saying it about. But who actually put that quote in that book?

Marty Gallagher, the guy that wrote it. He's big on quotes.

Yeah.

That and samurai quotes.

Yeah. And how was that process writing that book?

Just tons and tons of interviewing and then going back and looking what he wrote and redoing it and correcting what he wrote compared to what I thought and how it looked on paper.

Is there anything in that that you kind of look at and go, I wanna add more to it?

Oh, there's a lot more now. I mean, just the interviews I do now, the stuff that we're talking about now isn't really in it as much and explained as much.

Well, if you could rewrite it, what would you add? Like, is it something particular?

A lot more in depth mentally in the process-wise.

Like such as?

Exactly the shit we're talking about now.

Oh, awesome.

Yes. Yeah.

Go us. Some of the people I've spoken to, and I mean, this is more of a compliment more than is a question, but they phrased, I've asked what made Ed Coan so great? Because you're a very humble guy, which is just, yeah, it's quite amazing.

Well, you are who you are on the platform after that. I mean, I can't run the business the way you do. I can't change the oil on my damn car. So someone's always better at something.

Yeah, but it was this perfect marriage of being kind of born for it with the absolute passion that this is just what I wanna do. What you do in life. So when you were a kid and you started getting into sport and that kind of stuff and it was being small essentially.

Yeah, I played all the sports, basketball, baseball, football.

Did you ever get into like any combat sports?

No, I've been doing that for a bunch of years lately. When I retired from powerlifting, I wanted to be able to move more and be a little more athletic.

So if we were looking at like, you know, the whole argument of correlation, causation, all these kinds of stuff and we looked at your childhood, I mean, you've got brothers, sisters, Yeah, I've got a brother and 3 sisters. Do they have a natural affinity to strength?

Yes, my brother and 2 of my sisters. My brother was a great athlete, except he was a son of a bitch with his attitude. And 2 of my sisters, I trained them. I mean, Haggle will tell you, I trained them for a while in a basement for a while. And all of a sudden, they started getting traps and upper back muscles and stuff started popping up. And that's why they quit. They were like, ew.

So there's definitely a genetic component in the family. Was your dad, mom strong?

Strong-minded, that's about it.

Right. Was there any lessons? 'Cause I mean, you've definitely got a patient, take your damn time kind of that attitude. Were there lessons in your childhood that stood out to you?

No, I think because I was so introverted as a kid. When I was a kid, I had no hand-eye coordination. So I had to go to the Illinois Institute Institute of Technology at night with pretty much like horse blinders on, bouncing a ball in a straight line with special glasses. And I was pretty introverted. So I think powerlifting and lifting weights was something I could just do by myself.

So that was gonna go into my next question, which is what is it exactly that you love about powerlifting?

What lights you up? Just, it's you. I mean, it's you versus weights and that's it. How do I get there? I like the process of training, the physical part of it. Like I said, that was my reward. You know, straining my ass off in the gym, shitting my pants during a set of squats or whatever, throwing up, getting bloody noses. All that stuff was a reward, actually. I loved it. I loved the whole process of it.

Can you tell us the poop story?

Sure. I did a set of 5 reps with 410 in the squat. And at the beginning it started. But the way I thought was if I stop now, I have to come back and do this set. So I finished, you know, like, you know, Play-Doh, you know, the Play-Doh machine where you go like, that was me. So it was like clean up afterwards and that was it. But how many people would shit in their pants to be able to do 900 pounds for 5 reps? Quite a high percentage.

Yeah.

And that was it. But now tons of bloody noses and this and that, and that's fine.

The bloody nose actually knew that you were—

I had to have it like cauterized 3 times before.

But the bloody nose is actually a sign for you.

It's a fucking turn on.

Yeah, you're like ready to go.

Yeah.

Yeah, this is it. Amazing. So what, I mean, the level of passion that you have for the sport is truly, truly admirable. Were there any dark times or were there any times you wanted to quit? Were there any times like what kept you going for, over many decades, it was 4 or 5 decades.

There was nothing bad enough to make me wanna quit. Nothing. That's what, I mean, it saved me. It's part of who I am.

So let's say for example, life lessons, 'cause sometimes the perception to the public, and I hope this video goes out and gets spread, but the perception to the public, anyone who kind of trains in the gym, whether it be bodybuilder, powerlifter, strongman, oh, they're just meatheads. What are the life lessons that the iron is teaching?

Stephane Cohen is a doctor of physical therapy.

Andrew Locke, all the guys, highly intelligent people. So they're just smart meatheads.

But anyone that has reached that high a level can't be that stupid really, 'cause they're smart enough to learn how to get there. It's not just you have an athletic ability to get there, you have athletic ability to be good, maybe really good. But you don't have the athletic ability to be the best unless you take your time and do shit right.

But I suppose more to the point of the question, what are the life lessons that the average person from like, so your experience from lifting, what are the lessons that the irons taught you?

I became a student of the game. I know everything about every powerlifter and bodybuilder and strongman from fricking 50 years ago, if not more.

So correct me.

And I studied everything all the time.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But basically if I was to steal everything that you're saying, really the rules to the game of success at any high level is number one, absolutely love it. And if you don't absolutely love it, go home. Because if you don't absolutely love it, you're not gonna enjoy the bloody noses, the shitting the pants, the broken bones, everything, the sweat, the tears. So you're gonna give up. But when you actually love it, then it's your responsibility.

Because I always knew I could get better. I didn't retire until I knew I couldn't get better.

What was that like when you thought I can't get better?

It was fine.

Right.

Then my time was up. That was it. I didn't want to be a tragedy. I didn't want to be the old boxer that comes back and looks like shit.

The Ric Flair? Yeah.

I didn't want to be the George Foreman that comes back at 50-something years old and tries to beat up a young guy and looks like crap. And then you have your own ego that you've got to deal with. I just want to be a little bit of who I was, look pretty good, and not have too much pain. I'm fine with that.

That's truly remarkable because I mean, like I say, 'cause you know, guys getting to the end of their career, they don't know when to stop.

I'm happy with the way I did things and the weights I lifted. I probably could have done a little more if I changed a couple little things with injuries or some fuck-ups I did, but that's all part of it and I learned from that. I can pass that on.

What would you say to a guy who's struggling to pass the torch? Or was there a torch passing for you? Like, did you see a younger guy and go, you know, he's gonna be—

No, there's plenty of strong people in the world. They're gonna go no matter what anyways. But no, I didn't have to really like mentor someone to say, here, take this. No, it was just everyone didn't have to worry about taking second anymore.

So I'm not sure if you've seen The Wrestler, the movie. Yeah, I did. Yeah, so I mean like—

Yeah, that's pretty sad.

Yeah, using that example metaphorically for guys in anything, powerlifting or wrestling or even bodybuilding, who aren't, what advice do you give to a lot of guys who are struggling to give up that spotlight?

How good do you feel every morning? You don't. How happy are you doing the sport that you're doing in that much pain and you can't do it as good as you used to? It's not really that rewarding. Not at all. You didn't get into it to be a tragedy. You got into it to be a success. I don't need to go back now and go to Pro Raw next year steal some masters' records and shit like that. I don't need to do that. Let the old guys do that.

Simple, but very, very, very profound.

It's just, you know, why did you get into it? To be the best. You can't be the best anymore. And you keep going downhill. And your body looks like shit and you feel like shit every fucking second of the day. And you're not happy doing it. You gotta be happy. I can go in the gym and be really happy doing what I do.

What year was it when you realized that for you?

Well, 2007 is when my first hip, when that started acting up, then I waited some years after that before I had it done, but it started.

So 2015, with that said, as a segue, 2015, you squatted 300 kilos. Can you tell us that story?

Oh, that was in Sydney. The guy putting on the meet came to me the night before and said some Russians have bowed out. He goes, I'm just gonna do a light squat 'cause everyone knows me. He goes, would you do the same? I said, sure, what are you squatting? He says, 300. I said, okay, that's easy, I can always do that. And so after I did that, it was so easy that, and that was just with knee sleeves and no knee wraps. And I said, that felt really good. And Hagas says, get off the platform then 'cause you're gonna wanna go more. I didn't have to prove anything.

Have you done anything similar to that level? Like after that?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Just in training, just a little test here and there, but I don't do that anymore. I just train hard. I'll figure out a way, like when I train today at Iman's place, I'll do a high bar, close stance, pause squat Olympic lifting. So it's a lot harder and keeps me in check so I don't have to go up. If I put the bar down low and open up a little bit, I can squat anything 'cause that's where my strength is. But that's where you're gonna get in trouble too.

How much weight will we be using today?

I have no idea.

All right.

I've been on my feet all week, so I don't know.

So it's just based on feel?

Yeah, I'll just go up and have some fun.

So like literally, like as we're speaking now, you're gonna train in a couple of hours, you don't have a process of how much actual weight you're gonna put in there?

Nah.

But back in the day, everything was written.

Yeah, yeah, now I don't have to worry about that crap. I don't have to compete. So now I just go, what do I wanna do today? And sometimes I'll do like mini training cycles of 6 weeks or something like that just to go up a little bit, but nothing, nothing too crazy.

So coming back to the topic of food, 'cause I just wanna kind of rehash this is really, it was just a case that you ate what you wanted in the confines that it was still good food, but you more importantly within the weight class, you ate what made you happy. What were the foods? Oh, you know, you've already said that the sundae was one of the things, but as a staple, and I suppose as a generality, like was it meat?

Meat. Every night before I went to bed, I had a steak, like at midnight every night.

So you go to bed at midnight?

Yeah.

And wake up about?

8:30.

Okay. Yeah, nice, nice. If we can talk about the experience, 'cause you've told me some amazing stories and I've heard you say it before, but One of the highlights of your career was you've been inducted into many Hall of Fames. So what was the first Hall of Fame that you're inducted to?

It's, one of them is the United States Powerlifting Hall of Fame and the other is York Barbell Hall of Fame, which is pretty cool. 'Cause Arnold and other old bodybuilders, strongmen and powerlifters are all in there, all the OGs of the sports.

Yeah, you showed me the photo or I think I saw the photo of all the people who, I think Evander Holyfield was there.

That was at the Arnold, that's the Arnold in Columbus. That's the International Sports Hall of Fame. That was with that one.

Was that ever a goal to be inducted into the Hall of Fame?

No, I just wanted to get strong.

But what did, I mean, what did that mean to you personally?

It's really nice to be accepted by your peers to say you're one of the best ever.

Well, the best ever.

I'll let them say it.

The best ever. Rules to greatness: have a plan, stick to the plan, love what you do. Am I missing anything?

No, you can't miss then. You can't miss it. Everything you do has to be doable though. In a training cycle, every week builds upon the next week. Then you get what you want. You can't say jump from here and this felt great, so I'm going to go up to this level. There's a process in training, in sport, in sports just like there is in business, you can't jump a process, you have to take your time and get there.

True, and—

And you learn a lot more too.

Interesting thing, as a side note, 'cause a lot of guys and girls, particularly nowadays with supplements and that, they like to jack themselves up with caffeine and all, who knows what sorts of things. You're not a coffee drinker at all.

No, very rarely, once in a while when I travel long, I'll have a little, half a cup of coffee. That's it.

So before a workout?

Don't need it.

Ritual?

Sometimes I'll take 2 sips of a Monster and that's it. Right. If that, I don't need it.

Any rituals that you'd have? No. Before a meet, any rituals?

No.

And I know a lot of guys when they're competing, they kind of, their persona maybe changes a little bit.

I get quiet, I would get quiet 'cause everything gets internalized then. I gotta save my energy, all my mental energy for what I want.

Night before a meet, was there a food that you'd go to and eat?

No, it was all based on body weight.

So if you were low, well, for instance, what would you be eating?

Pasta.

And if you were high?

If I was high, it would be like chicken breast and a salad or nothing.

And would it affect your lifting?

No.

'Cause your weight, you'd always stay relatively close anyway, you weren't dropping huge amounts.

Yeah, most I would get above weight would be like 5 kilos. Those at the most.

Did you ever have to do sauna?

Yeah, at the beginning we didn't, no one knew about water loading and all the easy stuff now. It was just almost dieting, dieting and then Dan was almost like an old wrestler sitting in a fricking sauna.

Is there, has there been anyone who you've met that potentially influenced the way you see training or started to train? Like you had your system, but was there someone who you met and thought, I just read the magazines, that's it.

I just figured it out for myself. When I first started, I maxed out twice a week on the squat till I hit 500 pounds. Then I was like, well, it's not gonna go any further and my legs are still skinny, so I better do something.

So what did you turn to for that?

It was power bodybuilding.

Was that something you read? Was that like—

No, I just started doing it myself.

Now, one of the things that I like to do on this show is do kind of the word association game. So for instance, if I say superhero, you might say Batman, for instance, right? So you ready?

Sure.

All right. So it's a word or a phrase or a sentence. If more comes to mind, obviously go for it. But favorite athlete?

Bo Jackson.

Who's Bo Jackson?

He did American football and baseball at the same time.

He's that guy I've seen, I think I've seen clips of him.

Just do it.

Yeah, and his clips are pretty phenomenal of him.

Yeah, he was amazing.

He gets the ball and just runs and like literally jumps over people.

Yeah, or he hits a home run then he takes a bat and snaps it over his knee.

He's definitely, if you haven't checked that out, amazing, worth watching. Career highlight.

Me? I like the Arnold Hall of Fame.

Career lowlight.

Blowing out my knee.

Something most people don't know about you.

Probably because I'm actually really introverted and quiet.

Tea or coffee? I think I know the answer.

I would rather have tea than coffee.

Which tea? What type of tea?

Don't even know. I had one when I was in Kuwait. I was sick as a dog one day and they gave me some type of tea and it like cured everything the way I felt right away. I don't even know what it was.

Nutrition for powerlifters.

It's not that different from bodybuilders, except I think you have to keep your fats a little higher and carbs are just based on depending on how much, how much weight do you wanna gain and what are your energy requirements.

One fitness, bodybuilding, powerlifting mag everyone should read.

The old Powerlifting USA magazine.

If you were an exercise, what exercise would you be?

A bent-over row.

Really, why bent-over row?

It was one of my favorite exercises.

Yeah. And when you're doing the bent-over row, were you going all the way to the floor? Were you pulling from blocks?

How were you doing it? No, I would either way, standing on a block or standing on the floor, I wouldn't let it touch the ground. I do them with no belt.

Okay, so was your back rounded or?

Raised a little bit.

Yeah, so you're happy with a— so locked in but rounded a little bit.

That developed my core more than anything.

And where were you pulling the bar to?

Low.

Low, so you're more lat, pulling the lats in.

Yep.

Letting the shoulders round forward a little bit.

Yeah, because you know, where do you put the bar when you squat? Where do you lay down on when you bench? Where do you pull within the deadlift?

Right. So that was a go-to staple.

If your shoulders hurt, you could still walk around, sleep, do whatever you want. If your knee hurts, you can do the same. If your back hurts, you can't do anything.

What day would you put them in on?

Deadlift day.

Yep, not squat day?

No.

Chest day deadlift? Nope. And you do them directly after deadlifting?

Yeah.

Yep. And how much, what's your record for a bent-over row?

260 for 2.

And wide grip, the same as you'd bench or you'd bring it in?

It's fairly wide.

So it's to mirror your bench basically?

Yeah.

So it'd almost be like the way you would do—

Well, it was more comfort than anything 'cause if I went too close, it was just so much bicep and brachioradialis because of my long arms.

Right. So if I try to picture it in my head, the way you try and do it is almost, The setup that you would use for a bench, but you actually know because you're pulling here.

You're just pulling lower.

Yeah, got it. Favorite exercise, I think we've already covered this, but least favorite exercise?

Curls.

Is there a supplement that you can't live without?

No.

Doesn't sound like it, no. Overrated or least favorite supplement?

Protein supplements.

Something that you'd like to see more of?

Cool contests like Pro Raw.

Mm, that was a great contest on the weekend. Hey, yeah, amazing. Something you'd like to see less of?

Shit judging.

Was there a couple of bad calls?

No, there's— well, there's gonna be a couple little bad calls in every contest, but some places, like, there's way too many bad calls where people go and get shit passed.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, not locking out.

No, I was like, that's stupid shit.

A respected peer?

I'm here, so I would say Emad.

Biggest myth in powerlifting?

You have to be big to lift weights.

Because you broke that. It's there, yeah, you have to—

Look at little Steffi Cohen and Pocket Rocket at 60 kilos in body weight, they both squatted 227 this weekend.

I know I've asked you privately, but for the purposes of this video, I thought I'd ask it on camera too, is that do you feel in any way that you would get more out of yourself if you had a competitor who was close to you at your time?

No.

Why is that?

'Cause I was self-driven. I didn't give a shit. I only cared about me.

And that was the keys.

Yeah.

That's the keys the whole time.

Yeah, I just, I wanted to be the best I could possibly be. Excuse me. As long as I knew I was growing in one way or another, you know, you can list 10 different ways that, that can be improved, whether it's, you know, size, strength, body fat, technique, all this stuff, mental. And you just start putting those together and get better. Now you got a total package. So as long as I know I could keep improving, I didn't— nobody— I didn't care.

Do you watch Netflix at all?

I've got it now. So what do you watch? Just really, really bad B-movies.

Yeah. Big fan.

Yeah.

What's the last movie you watched on Netflix?

Ooh, I know, I think it was a horror flick. I don't know which one, but I love vampire movies.

Oh yeah?

Yeah.

Have you seen on Netflix, speaking of, have you seen The Punisher?

Not the series.

Yeah.

Not the series. I like the movies better.

Yeah, Game of Thrones fan? No?

Never really watched it. But I could say I could call Thor if I wanted to.

That's a pretty cool thing to have. Complete this sentence, I'm scared of?

Real work.

Ed Coan's favorite powerlifter.

Oh, wow, well, you know, I've got favorites because like a friend of mine who had passed away, Doug Furniss, he mentored me a lot and taught me a lot, but I really did it, there's so many because, and it's not what they lift all, like when I was at the contest this past weekend, And everyone's so nice that that's what I enjoy the most. So there's too many now, too many to even list.

So the personalities is what really—

Yeah, if people are nice and they're lifting and they're having fun, that's fricking great.

Yeah, the lifting is kind of secondary to the personality.

It is.

Going to those big events, I mean, how is it for you? Like everyone obviously knows who you are, it's like Ed Coan. I mean, is it overwhelming at times? Like how do you take it all in?

No, I'm thankful. Feel for it. People come and say, I know you're just sick of taking pictures. No, I'm not. It would be shit if no one did. It's nice. Of course it's nice to be recognized. But they're going to come up to you because you're personable and you've been nice back. If you're a dick, no one comes up to you. So don't be a dick.

For breakfast, Ed eats—

Usually red meat and rice.

I'd ask you, is comfort food?

Yeah.

And favorite barbell to lift with?

We'll see, in the US we didn't have a Lyko and all the other ones like that. So it was a Texas Power Bar, a company, Texas, from Texas, of course.

You mean that's not what you used to lift with, that's what you lift with now?

That's what I used to lift with all the time. All the time back then.

Yep, I've got one of their Texas deadlift bar now. Yeah, I've got one of those there.

Texas Strength Systems, I think it is. But yeah, they had a Texas Power Bar that was used in almost like every single meet. 'Cause a lot of the meets I used to go into were IPF, so you had to have the same bar for squat, bench, and deadlift.

Any final thoughts?

No. No? Not really, thanks.

Yeah, let's give Ed a round of applause. Folks, if you're enjoying this, folks, stay tuned. We're going to do a Q&A round with our audience in just a sec, but this is a great time to hit subscribe on YouTube and make sure you ring that bell for all future updates. Stay tuned for more. Hey, hey folks, I hope you're enjoying this episode with the greatest powerlifter of all time, Ed Coan. It was an absolute honor and a privilege to spend time with Ed Coan and really get to pick his brain. In this interview, I really feel We go quite in deep into what makes the greatest powerlifter of all time tick. Now, I need your help and Ed needs your help too. We want to get this information and this podcast and this interview out to as many people as possible, 'cause we believe it can really make a difference. And the way you can support us and help us is very, very simple. All you need to do is subscribe to the channel and send out the video link to all your friends and family on Facebook and Instagram and let them know that we did an interview with Ed Coan and it was absolutely awesome. And hey, look, I get it. Some of you don't like sitting in front of your computer and watching long format interviews. You'd rather listen to them in your car. It's okay. I've got you covered. Just check out and head over to our iTunes account. It's the Enterprise Fitness Podcast. And also for those of you on SoundCloud, we're there as well. Please show your support by ranking us 5 stars or giving us a 5-star ranking rather. And leaving a comment. All that support really, really goes a long way in showing support for the show so we can make more great episodes and get even— well, I don't know if there's bigger guests than Ed Coan because he is the absolute pinnacle of powerlifting, but we can do bigger and better shows in the context of keeping those guests in different fields and that kind of thing going. So support the show, subscribe, and leave us a review. All right, enough of that. For the personal trainers out there, make sure you check out personaltrainermentoring.com. It's your hookup to the information that you need to build your business the way you want it and on your terms. So download the first 5 e-classes to Wolfpack there. They're all on screening and assessment, and I know they'll help you out a bunch. Okay, enough of all that. Let's get back to the podcast with Ed because it's absolutely dynamite. Welcome back, folks, to this episode of The Wolf's Den. You're watching with the greatest powerlifter of all time, Ed Coan. My name is Mark Ottobre, and we are going to hit back to audience questions with the first question being— With a lot of athletes, you hear that they have visualization techniques. Did you have anything in particular that you did to achieve your goals in terms of visualization techniques?

The visualization technique I used was more— I could feel the weight. I could just know the steps, like walking out of squat, how I walk up to it, how many steps it takes, where I put my hands on the bar, how I get one side under, then under, then the other, how I wiggle into it and squeeze it into my body, how I take it off, how I walk it out. But I can feel it. A lot of people can see themselves doing it, but they can't feel it. And that, I think that's a big key.

I remember reading that to improve your bench press, you used the behind the neck press.

How did you come to that? I hated front shoulder presses. I didn't like the way it felt at all. And all of a sudden I started doing a, I tried a standing one behind the neck. I didn't like it. I tried a seated one and varied my grip. And I found the right grip to where it felt like I was using my triceps and shoulders to mimic the bench press.

Okay, so is there any reason why it actually converted over to increasing the weight in your bench press?

Um, just, just, I used to go by how it felt. Like, how did it feel with a heavy bench press on the bottom when I started to push from here? That's the same feel I got from a behind-the-neck press. The thing is, is a lot of people don't do them right because they start too heavy, and I started them at a young age with real light weight, so I attained the mobility and strength in those areas to be able to do them as long as I did. In your lifts, you talk about your concentration. And do you sort of see yourself lifting in a meditative state? Or can you talk about your— what you focus on when you sort of— totally, the process. Everything we do starts in your mind. The mind controls every damn thing we do, no matter what it is. So I would have to concentrate on what I did or what I was going to do. I could just close my eyes, and as I said, I could visualize it, but I could feel it. And when I got to a point where I could go and do the whole lift in my mind, I knew that it wasn't going to be a problem on the stage. I could do it in training too, it was just at a faster pace. But on the stage it was the most important. That's when you have to, I think, have the most concentration and focus. And a lot of, like I said, a lot of people, they get smacked around, they get too hyped up, and that's because they don't have They don't have the focus and confidence that they know that they're gonna get it. So I think that's where it comes from. Do you meditate outside of lifting? Um, not consciously, but since I was always thinking about what I was going to do and how I was gonna do it, I'd say yes. I wouldn't even listen to the radio on the way to the gym because I was thinking about what I had to do and how I was gonna do it. Just to piggyback off that last question, would you do any visualization techniques on your days off? Obviously when you're not training, what were you doing? Was there anything? Yeah, because I actually, in my mind, I was training on my days off, just different. Positive reinforcement. And did I do anything wrong? How do I make it feel better? How are all my numbers? And whatever I got to do to get better. So it was always on my mind.

And my question is, as the body gets older, where I'm finding myself in late 40s, and what do you do to manage it, keeping up your strength?

You could do, you could do more volume, but you got to keep the reps lower. It's the amount of intensity you could put into a set. You can't do— you could keep the, the volume higher, and then your intensity has to be a little bit lower. Or you could do, keep your intensity higher and do less sets. You can't have them both. You can't just go, like if you're bodybuilding, you can't go all out on each set trying to get this pump shit. It's not gonna work. You're gonna, you won't recover enough. So you have to pick and choose things a little bit better. Like what exercises hurt? Well, those are the ones you go real, real light on. So you wouldn't do benches anymore first. You could put them in last. You could do inclines or incline dumbbells first, or dips first, or something else first. You have to— whatever doesn't hurt or you have a problem with, that's what you have to put first.

And how about recovery-wise as well?

Do you find that you need to recover, take, take your time? More mobility work, light stretching, and walk. I find that if you're in shape, you recover way better. Right. Yeah.

Thank you. Um, you said, like, what— in your career you were always thinking about your lifts and things like that.

What are you always thinking about now? I still think about them. I just don't go as heavy. I just think about how am I going to recover and, and how do I fix my aching shoulders a little bit better. And, uh, some of it is inevitable. Like I said, I have, uh, the arthritis gene. So you try to shift and figure out other ways to do things. And like I just told him, I won't start off with certain exercises like I used to. I'll make them at the end so I could still do them, just not as heavy. Then I'm all warmed up. Did you—

when you blew out your knee, did you have a particular recovery process that you did, um, like exercise-wise?

I know you didn't look at it, but my, my therapist who worked for my cousin who did my surgery Actually, my cousin came in the therapy room and said, Eddie, you know how to get stronger. He knows how to get your mobility and your range of motion and stuff back. Don't get hurt. So we figured out like new little shit where we're using bands and chains and all kinds of stuff in there that no one has ever done before. And he actually did his doctoral thesis on my knee to become a doctor of physical therapy.

So you use a lot of stuff now if you see powerlifters or you're coaching someone, um, to help with their injuries?

A lot of times a reason the guys get injured now is poor technique and poor, um, weight selection because they're not recovering or their form sucks. So now if, if you can get your technique really, really good, that is actually a nice form of mobility work to teach your body how to do the exercise correctly, and you will recover a lot faster. It's only when, when you have a little bit bad technique or a lot bad technique and you train too hard and you fuck up your central nervous system and you don't recover that you have problems around that. If you do the exercises properly and you don't overtrain, you usually don't have any problems whatsoever. 'Cause you look, a lot of these mobility things and a lot of things everyone does all the time, it makes them feel good for a really, really, really short period of time. And they have to keep doing them 2, 3 times a day. It's like, well, they're not really working. There's what else is wrong here? And that has to change. And it's usually a pure form of body movement. I think body movement can fix almost anything. Thank you.

Thank you for watching The Wolf's Den. That was Ed Coan, greatest powerlifter of all time. If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure you subscribe, ring the bell on YouTube and check us out on iTunes as well. And also check out the previous episodes and feel free to share folks, share this great information on all things social media. And until next time, train hard, supplement smart and eat well.

Bye-bye.