S5:E1 - Comp Prep Advice From Pro Trainers - Wolfs Den

Welcome to the show that punches you in the face with information. Welcome to the Wolf's Den. My name is Mark Ottobre, and I am joined by these fine two gentlemen, our comp prep coaches here at Enterprise Fitness. I'm joined by the ever so lovely, with voice of silk and smooth, Marshall Tan, and the fantastic Liam Fitzgerald. Today we are here to talk about comp prep in all of its glory, from its problems to the time that you get up on stage and get that trophy. Gentlemen, let's talk comp prep. So what are our— let's just start at the very start, right? This is the very start. Uh, I want to compete, right? I've never, never, you know, I may never have been to a show before, right? But I want to compete, and I see these amazing bodies on stage and these people on Instagram, and I think, wow, I want to look like that. What's my first steps? What are my first thoughts?

Alrighty, so with our clients, basically we take them through a session 1, which covers everything nutrition-based. Okay, so what we're looking at is client goals, timeframe, their body type, their past training and nutritional history, and how compliant they're gonna be. Okay, so once we've collected basically all the data on the client, We then take measurements or photos. And then we start basically mapping out their training day, non-training day nutrition to set them up for their goal. Now with me, or anyone who's doing a competition, we're basically looking at the end date, which is the competition. And we're basically working back from there. With that said, we might plan out, a building phase and a dieting phase to get them to where they wanna be. Do you have anything to add to that, Mark Ottobre?

Yep, it definitely depends on how much lean mass they have. And we have already accumulated the data that they already have. So whether they've been training for quite some time or they're just a complete beginner there. So either or they can compete, but it's question of why and if they're ready at that point.

I imagine, and also like the timeframe as well, right? Like how much time do we have with this person? 'Cause like ideally, we're gonna have more time. I mean, if they're a complete newbie, you know, might even be as much as 12 months, 2 years.

Very true, very true. Because like Liam said, we do need a building phase and we do need to know how the body reacts. So that's the biofeedback there itself there.

Yeah, we wanna set people up to do this the right way. They wanna be super, super healthy and we wanna get them the best result. So first things first, we actually focus on building that foundation, okay? Now obviously, if we've got a really solid foundation, the walls are gonna be super, super high.

So we need We want to make sure that the walls are going to be super high. Just explain what you mean by that.

The—

well, let's say it's a pyramid. The bigger the base, the pointier the top, the higher you can actually go, right?

Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we want to— because we want to get them to have the best result and the best time possible doing this.

Enjoy it. Definitely enjoy it. Enjoy it because it's a challenge, but you can actually enjoy competing too.

Correct, correct.

Now, and most people don't.

Correct.

Most people hate it.

So hear me out here. If you come in and you're eating 1,300 calories.

Very low calories.

Very low calories to start with. Anyone who knows 1,300 or any kind of Waru food is not that good for you.

Anyone knows 1,300 knows it's not a good diet.

It's not a good number.

They're pretty hungry at that point. They're pretty hungry, yeah.

So if you're already eating 1,300, you're gonna have to diet very, very hard. And sometimes you're probably gonna look worse. You may even gain body fat eating super, super low calories. You're just not gonna have a nice enough time. So what we like to do here is we actually like to build up the calories. So we've set a new point and we basically work down from there. Okay, does that make sense?

Exactly, create a new set point there because if they've been dieting for 1,300 calories for quite some time there and if they're not losing body fat, where else do you go? Do you drop more calories?

Would you increase more cardio?

Oh yeah, that's just horrendous.

That's what so many coaches do.

That's just the wrong approach.

Yeah, yeah, and then that ends up driving people down into a hole with physical exhaustion and— emotional issues and bad relationships with food. So basically what I get from you gentlemen is essentially the way we do it is, and what we want people to understand is that we start with sound health practices. That's essentially the base. Then up from that is kind of sound training practices, sound nutrition practices. And that all has to happen and occur before someone considers a competition. Because what you see a lot of the time is people then say, I'm gonna get in shape to do a show. Where you really wanna be in shape, then decide to do a show. And if you've got that base solid, then you can actually have a really good time competing. Whereas most coaches and people, what they do is they see the picture on Instagram, I wanna look like that. What's that person just doing? And they jump straight to that. Meanwhile, they've probably, you know, Instagram filter, performance enhancing, butt, you know, implants.

Implants, yes. Yeah, that's been all the rage. Very common thing these days, by the way, very common thing.

Yeah.

I like to actually start off with the hunter-gatherer, poked or fish. Mark explained this to general pop clients a long time, but actually is it with competitors from the get-go. I actually take them back in time, start them off on whole foods, basically, or 90% whole foods. And I go building from there because if you've just come to me, Marshall or Mark or anyone, even though we might have an in-depth food log and we might've collected a lot of data, we still might've missed things. So it's still good to start off regressed and build from there.

You don't wanna assume. No, I don't wanna assume anything. Never, never, you don't wanna assume.

I don't wanna take chances. This is someone's physique. This is someone's chance of getting a first place. This is someone's health.

Exactly. With that being said though, it's not much of a regression there. It's more of creating that foundation. Not even a step back, two forward, like the classic saying itself there. The basics. Getting them to eat healthy nutritious food that actually build and nourish their body. And I believe that, you know, that's one of your sayings there.

That's part of the, —part of the base though, right?

That is part of the baseline.

So let's just say theoretically, right? And also just actually before we segue into that, you know, the old modeling nutrition that I see a lot of the time is, you know, that the pyramid of nutrition, which is at the bottom, you've got your calories and macronutrients, micronutrients, and then meal timing supplements, right? I don't like that model because it suggests that one is more important than the other. I like to make it a circle, right? And have those equal parts and not actually do with it for the client in terms of calories and macronutrients, whatever, but rather things that they can focus on, like areas of focus, which are things like sleep, gut health, quality of food, training, lifestyle, stress. These are things that we very much have control over and each area interacts with the other. And I think this is where our approach to coaching is a lot more encompassing and holistic for a competitor because too often what we see with competitors is, you know, it's, here's the plan, right? Go and do the plan, do it for 12 weeks. And look, you do the plan for 12 weeks, you will get lean. Yeah, you get— but what happens after, right?

Yeah, that's the question. Are they gonna put on 5 kilos? Are they constantly gonna binge? Are they just gonna feel very depressive or not even enjoy the whole experience itself there? So I mean, at the end of the day, we're here to create that foundation to make sure that we prevent those scenarios there, because those scenarios are never good. No, never good. Never good.

So, so really, we've got to focus on that. I know we keep coming back to this. It's very important. We've got to get that base right.

The thing is as well, when you do build a base and you do have a chance to do a building phase, get someone better, get someone in a better place with their eating, training, you've also got a chance to develop someone's physique a little bit better. Now, as a coach here at Enterprise, obviously we're almost looking people straight down in sagittal planes. And we're basically seeing, are things symmetrical? Are things big enough? Can they actually move? Can they actually move? Do we need to develop? More shoulders, more arms, more—

What's the movement pattern like just in general? What are you moving? Can they retract? Can they do a depression through the scapula there? So we might be able to prescribe, all right, cool, do a lat pull down there, but can they actually do it? So we do have to coach them through it or actually give them example as to how they can actually do that from a structural balance point of view.

This is what makes online training quite tricky.

Well, yes, because cookie cutter plans, which are basically someone with a high following or something just gives out plans, doesn't quite work for everyone.

No.

Because they're not personalized because there's so much data to be taken into consideration. Like we could have the same plan, but your muscle mass might be a lot more than mine. I might move better than you. You might need to focus on quads. I might need to focus on back. Exactly. Why are we doing the same plan? We're two very different people. It's not personalized.

Yeah, and then when you factor in online on that, I know you guys, you both do online training. You have clients, you know, kind of all over the world doing different things. But one of the things that I see with online is that it is very tricky and that the online process has to really be by application only, right? Like a lot of the myths and people think you can just get everyone, you know, I'll just do that plan online. And the thing is, I mean, there are some really good online coaches and then most of them, let's be honest, actually really bad online coaches because online coaching in and of itself, you haven't done the time on the tools face-to-face, you're not aware of the things that are gonna go wrong when you go online because when you go online, It's like you don't see that client move. You don't know their nutrition. So I know the way we do online is completely different. And you've had, both of you have had unbelievable success with some of the clients that you have online. We can talk about Alessandro in a sec. Do you wanna tell us like actually like what are the differences that make a difference? I know one of them is the weekly check-ins on the phone actually talking to them. And before all that, one of the big differences is actually the application. It's like, you know, we're willing to say to someone, this is not right for you. Go find someone in your local area because, you know, we'd love to coach you, but it's gonna be a waste of your money and a waste of our time basically. So you wanna talk us through some of the stuff that, you know, you've done online and also with Alessandra in recent time?

Yeah, yeah, of course. So one thing I did wanna say is like I have said no to people and it is hard for me to do, but it is the right thing to do because they need to see a coach face to face to get more out of it.

Exactly. Face to face is technically easier because literally you see how they move, you see what they speak, that you see every single thing possible there. And that's a very big part of the whole process itself there. So online coaching can be a bit tricky there, but we do have clients sending videos of themselves performing certain exercises there. We do have to actually ask for videos.

Yes, I want them—

I want to get into the granular. I want to get into the granular.

You have to see how they move. And that's a very important thing. And that's how we actually program per se. And that's why it's very personalized in that way.

I always used to do like photos of their food as well. It does help. Because it's like, well, when I say like, this is what I want you to eat, it's like, well, are you actually like, did my message actually get across? 'Cause you know, if I say chicken, I didn't mean like chicken, fried chicken. Yeah. There's so many things that people go, oh, chicken nuggets, right? Like, no, no, no. Technically chicken. Yeah. How do you cook it? Like, what are you using? What oils are you using? It's gotta be exact.

Yeah, it makes it very hard when more and more people wanna do comp preps in 8 weeks, 12 weeks, 10 weeks, when they've got no idea of the fundamentals, like food prepping skills. They know how to read labels and all these little things. They know how to train, they know how to use progressive overload, all these things that tie in. And they have no idea how long it actually takes to get good at these things. But they're doing it and they want to do it in 8, 10, 12 weeks, which is going to hurt them in the long run.

It's very easy to get someone very lean, put them on a very aggressive diet, and put them in a very aggressive expenditure. But it's a case of what happens after. And I believe that's one of those things that we do take account to, the aftercare of that. Yes, you might lose 10 kilos. Yes, you might, you know, miraculously look amazing after, but how's your health? What happens after that 12 weeks there? Do you regain the weight there or do you have a very healthy relationship with food? Hence you can actually keep that weight loss and actually feel good, well, year round and be the optimal you, especially after comp prep itself there too.

So what I'm hearing from you gents is that there's two primary issues with comp prep in the industry as an industry whole at the moment. One is people see people getting up on stage and they think, I wanna do that. And they don't have a realistic timeframe of how long things actually take. Number one. What was the second one that you guys alluded to? Is just people are being too aggressive with the diets? Is that the second problem?

Yes, being uneducated and not knowing, just following a coach's commands or guidelines.

Well, that is a real problem because how would someone who hasn't competed before know any different?

That's what this podcast is here for. We're here to actually educate the general public who actually wants to compete and let them know that Yes, we can do it in a healthy manner. Yes, we don't need to lose our period for women to actually be stage lean, and we can actually come out of this in a healthy manner physically as well as mentally. Mentally is a very big underlying thing which a lot of coaches forget because, all right, cool, we are prescribing food, we are telling them eat this, eat that there, but people don't realize that that's changing the mentality of the human being too.

All right, so let's just switch topics a little bit. That was my drift sound, changing gears. So we have the person watching, they wanna do the comp first time, you know, they don't know what they don't know. You know, they see the person on Instagram, they've got the abs, they've got the bum, the fake butt implants, they can't tell any different. You know, most people can't tell with a good filter, you know, they can't tell any different. Where do they begin? Where do they start?

Well, I think one of the most important things is as a coach, you have to understand their value, why they're doing these things and what their current workload is, what their current factors are outside of the gym. Like, are they, do they have kids? Are they sleeping? All these things take into a big consideration of what a person's gonna be able to do in the gym and out the gym. So, and then also on top of that, things like what I do, I might be really compliant. Marshall, we know for a fact is not compliant. It might take him a little bit longer to get to that result as it would be me where I'm pretty much a straight shooter. Everyone's different. And that's where a lot of these coaches are doing cookie cutter plans as well. So a plan for everyone.

What's a cookie cutter plan for those who don't, haven't heard that term before?

A cookie cutter plan is something that I just give to everyone, no matter what. It's not personalized.

It's a very generic plan premade and just sent to every client possible there just for the, you know, yeah, just for ease.

But why is it important that we personalize our plans?

Because we've got to take into consideration client goals, timeframe, their body type, how fat mass, muscle mass, training history, past training history, eating history.

Relationship with food, psychology, if whether competing is actually a good idea for them. Sometimes we might take a step back and ask them, all right, are you actually ready for this journey itself there? Because it is a challenge. It is a challenge, and people forget that, ah, since everyone on Instagram is constantly lean or doing competitions, I should definitely do it. So it's good to take a step back and, like Liam said, reassess values and think, all right, is competition for me, or is it a case of just transforming my body, my mind, and eventually going to its— that stage of competing when they're ready for that challenge?

So what's the difference between, would you say, competing and just doing a transformation? Like someone's like, really look, you know, I wanna get myself in shape. 'Cause what I see a lot of is like, I wanna get myself in shape. And then the next assumption is I'm gonna do a show.

What are your thoughts on that? Well, doing a show means that you are going probably a little bit leaner than a general transformation. So it can be pretty sustainable for some people to do a, to get a transformation where they get to like maybe 15, maybe 10%.

Depending on male and female, female for 15% or maybe lower. Yeah.

Depending on, again, body type, all that kind of stuff. Where with a competition, we're actually going for a certain look. And for bodybuilding, this is probably, for example, you are as lean as you can be. You want striated glutes, you want big quads, you want a small waist. That's quite different to just a normal transformation. Where you're just trying to get a little bit leaner or you're trying to get a little bit more muscle mass.

Yeah, so the saying that I like to use is you get in shape, then you do a show. You don't get in shape to do a show 'cause that always leads to arrive.

Your thoughts, Marshall? Completely agree with what Liam said there. There's the difference between the transformation and the competition itself there. You have to be ready with every bit, let's say foundationally wise before competing. Hence, you know, it's a very common thing for us to actually figure out what their foundational situation is, whether they are training age, their relationship with food, their relationship with themselves, their reason for competing, and structure balance and such too.

If you've made it this far in this video, it means one of two things. One, you really want to compete, or two, you want to improve upon a previous result and be your very best on stage. Either way, my coaches at Enterprise Fitness can help. So reach out to the team at info@enterprisefitness.com.au or shoot us a message on Instagram. Thanks for watching. And until next time, train hard, eat well, and supplement smart.