S5:E5 - Deep Dive on Hydrogenated and Seed Oils - Enterprise Fitness Podcast

Welcome to the show that punches you in the face with information. Welcome to the Enterprise Fitness Podcast. My name is Mark Ottobre, owner and founder of Enterprise Fitness, and in this episode we're going to be talking about hydrogenated oils, partially hydrogenated oils, trans fats, saturated fat, polyunsaturated fat, monounsaturated fat, cholesterol, omega-3, omega-6, trans fatty acids, and so, so much more. So to give this episode of the podcast some context, each week at Enterprise Fitness, I run a team training for our crew. I run that team training to ensure that our trainers at Enterprise Fitness are industry-leading and giving our clients the very best advice to help our clients get the results that, that ultimately they've paid for and they've come to us for. So each week we do a deep dive on a topic and This week's topic was hydrogenated oils. And we talked about so many different things. And I thought, how valuable would that be just to share outside of our team, to share with our clients, our followers, our friends, so they know what we know and they can make better decisions and they're equipped with the knowledge that our trainers have. So I really hope that you enjoy the podcast. You obviously get exposed to some of the learnings that our trainers go through on a regular basis. And I hope this podcast helps you make better decisions when it comes to the fats that you use when, when you're cooking. So this is loaded with information, but it's in a concise time format. So I hope you enjoy it. Let's go to the podcast now and I'll speak to you on the other side.

All right, welcome to this week's team training. This week's team training, we are going to be covering hydrogenated oils and partially hydrogenated oils. So this is quite a big topic, which is— and obviously, as always, feel free to stop me at any time. It's quite a big topic, and the reason why it's a big topic is because you can't really talk about hydrogenated oils and partially hydrogenated oils without talking about the history of saturated fats, how hydrogenated oils came to be, the political aspects around it. And also, you could marry a lot of the stuff that's happening— that's happened with the misinformation of hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils, and you could marry that over to also some of the stuff that happens with pharmaceutical industry, where it's very dicey research becomes the mainstream science, right? So the first thing you should know is what they are. Partially hydrogenated— so partially hydrogenated oils and hydrogenated oils is basically a chemical process where they make an unsaturated fat and they saturate the carbon bonds with hydrogen. Obviously, as the name refers to partially hydrogenated, that's— they're partially saturating those hydrogen bonds with those carbon bonds with hydrogen. It's partial. And obviously fully is where they completely saturate it with a hydrogen. What that does is it makes that fatty acid more stable. It also gives it a higher shelf life and does give it a higher heat with temperature to withstand heat. But obviously in that process, what happens as well is it damages the, I suppose, fragility of those fatty acids and does change the fatty acid structure One of the big changes is from the linoleic acid, which is a change of omega-3s to omega-6s. And it also does increase the amount of polyunsaturated fats. So a lot of folks, again, this issue is quite complex, a lot of layers to this. So another thing I should introduce at the start is also that the fact that with, how do you say, polyunsaturated fat, you've got polyunsaturated fat, for a lot of folks, they think it's a good fat. I don't look at polyunsaturated fat as a good or a bad fat. They're not necessarily good or bad. Monounsaturated, saturated fat, polyunsaturated, they're just fats, right? What really the details is, is the amounts and the ratios that you're having. Okay, so don't necessarily think of, you know, people say polyunsaturated fat's a good— it's not necessarily a good fat. It's not necessarily a bad fat. There's polyunsaturated fat that's found in nuts, for example. You're not going to say, I'm going to avoid nuts because I don't want to get polyunsaturated fat. That would be silly, right? But, um, it is in the ratios of what you're having these things. And if you have too much of one fatty acid, um, it's probably not a good thing, particularly with your polyunsaturated fat. So as it relates to food, and you're going to see why some clients come in and they're super inflamed, and a simple change that you can make is just changing what fats they cook with, and it actually makes a real big difference to their body composition and health and the way they start to lose fat. So, um, it's particularly rampant in Indian and Asian cultures, these fats. Because that is traditionally and culturally what they're taught to cook with, as well as you probably find Jewish culture as well has a big influence of partially hydrogenated. And the reason is, is because for kosher meals for Jewish, I don't think they're allowed to mix two animals together or a rule similar to that. Obviously, canola oil is a vegetable oil, for example, but it's also for the Indian and Asian cultures, they deep fry a lot of their food. So what is a partially hydrogenated and hydrogenated fat when it comes to food? It's a vegetable oil It's canola oil. It's a Crisco oil, which stands for cottonseed crystallized oil, basically is what Crisco oil is. It's cottonseed, and they genetically modify the cottonseed plant now to have more of a yield so they can get more oil out of it. It's soybean oil. It's shortening, and it's margarine. Okay, these oils really don't go off. Now, I'm also going to say that it is a modern feats. It's a feat of modern food science to have some of the food products that we have today. I want to acknowledge that as well from the start. It is an absolute feat that you can open up a, you know, a Twinkie, which is America's favorite snack food. You can buy a Twinkie 2 years ago and you can open it up today, and as soon as you rip open that packet, it's going to be fresh. And, and that's quite a feat, right, of food science. And the way they do that is with these oils. That's part of it because these oils don't have a very, very long shelf life. And then there is that joke around the only thing that would survive a nuclear holocaust is cockroaches and Twinkies, right? And that's where part of that earning that name of the product that never spoils is because of the hydrogenated fats that go into that product. Okay, so let's go back and look at the makings of hydrogenated fat and hydrogenated oils. It all started with two men named Procter and Gamble. Procter Gamble. So it was William Procter and James Gamble who found it, who basically married sisters in 1937. And it was their father-in-law that essentially said, why don't you guys go into business together? Because they both at the time were competing for the same raw material. So I believe Procter was making soaps and Gamble was making candles. And to make those soaps and candles, they both needed the same raw materials, which was lard. And at the time, the choice lard was pig and beef, and the meat manufacturers essentially controlled the price of lard, and it was a supply and demand issue. So they were spending exponential amounts. So the two eventually found a chemist, Paul Sabatier. A lot of this, the chemists actually came out of France, like margarine, for example. That was a product formulated by a French chemist. But I digress. They figured out a way to essentially make their own fats and hydrogenate. They figured out a way and essentially came to Procter Gamble by a fella named Edwin Kayser, the chemist that owned the rights for hydrogen oils. And that's what they were going to use for candles and soaps. But the interesting thing about when this all happened was Thomas Edison, I believe, developed the light bulb in No, he developed the light bulb, I think it was in 1897, but thanks to the tungsten filament, which happened, I think, 1909, the tungsten filament made the light bulb cheap enough so the average commoner could afford it. So obviously, if you've got a business that's selling soaps, candles, obviously a big portion of the candles sales, they were being affected. So they invested all this money into hydrogenating oils, and they were looking for another use of the oil. So they decided to do something daring. That big daring idea was to enter the kitchen. And so behold, 1911, uh, Crisco debuted selling 2.5 million pounds within 12 months. By 1916, they had reached 60 million. The name Crisco is short for crystallized cottonseed oil, as mentioned before. So, um, they had a lot of, uh, marketing ideas that really took off. For example, one of the real keys, and we talk about micro-influencers today with social media and stuff, but these guys in terms of marketing were well ahead of their time. The way they marketed it to women of the day was basically, you can be a superwoman, you can cook this food, and you can also light— the man can use it lighting candles. And it has all these uses. And if you cook lobster mornay with it, you can— you cook your burgers, it's not going to smell, it's not going to go rancid, it's an easier fat to cook with. And then they started entering the Jewish market particularly, and in the Jewish community they developed cookbooks that gave every recipe in their kosher, kosher meal. So again, with kosher meals, I don't know the exact rules on kosher meals, but it's essentially— it's something like you can't mix different animals and stuff. But the allowance of Crisco instead of— because before that, what were people cooking with? It was a good question. People cooking with fat. They're cooking with, um, butter, ghee, lard. Lard was huge. Lard is high in vitamin A, D, K, and E, and it's a super stable fat and super delicious and tasty. So, you know, if you want to cook something really delicious, you know, some potatoes, get some lard, cook your potatoes in lard. It's unbelievable, right? Give it a different flavor. But that's what people were using of the day. So then later came all the health claims. So interestingly, I'm just going to flick to another section of my notes, or I should say my chapter. Well, I just want to get the year right, because at around, I think it was 19— I'm going to say 1913. 1913. There was a Russian scientist in 1913. So this was shortly after hydrogenated oils hit the scene, right? Alex Ignatovsky. I don't know how to say his last name. I just butchered that. It's a Russian name. Alexander something. He did a very famous experiment, and this is where a lot of the cholesterol is bad for you originated, feeding rabbits meat and eggs. Now, before I progress, who can tell me the problem with feeding rabbits meat and eggs? Anyone? Rabbits are, uh, plant eaters. Rabbits are herbivores. Exactly. So the rabbits got very sick and did not have the capacity to digest the meat or utilize the saturated fat. So as you'd expect, these rabbits became sick and more specifically developed atherosclerosis, which, uh, their cholesterol was stuck in their arteries. But again, you've got to look at rabbits, they were never designed— they're herbivores, they're not, uh, omnivores like humans. So contemporary scientists to Alexander, Nikolai— another name I can't properly say— but Anshkovy was not convinced by the rabbit studies that would translate to humans. No matter, it was this work that birthed the lipid hypothesis. The lipid hypothesis states that basically blood lipids, particularly cholesterol, play a primary role in heart disease. And quoting the effects of cholesterol on rabbits to heart disease is akin to— this is my own words— quoting the effects of cholesterol on rabbits' heart disease is akin to feeding humans petroleum and concluding petroleum is bad for cars. Yet this example is quoted time after time by fanatical vegans. So it's— you can't look at a study that's done on herbivores and then conclude that it's going to have the same effect in humans when, when obviously we are designed to digest fats. It's like, I don't know if you've seen in that documentary, The Game Changers, um, they do this scene, right? And in the scene, I can't remember what they're exactly showing, but I think they're showing blood lipids. And the doctor shows, um, like the athletes— there's all these athletes in the room— and the doctor goes, oh, look at your blood when you have fats in your diet. And their blood's a little bit cloudy, right? There's a little bit— there's fat inside their blood. And then they're like, oh, look at your blood when you eat a vegan diet, and there's no fat inside their blood. Well, they haven't had fat in that day. And it's like, oh, well, they're like, oh, it's so bad. It's like, no, that's just what it does. It's not bad or good. It's like, oh, look, I cut myself, my blood's red. Yeah, well, that's the color of blood. It's like, oh, the sky is blue. Yeah, well, that's the color of the sky. If you woke up one day and the sky was pink or purple, you'd be like, oh shit, what the hell is going on? Maybe the aliens are coming. That's when I'm like, that's not normal, right? But having, having lipids and fatty acids in your blood is a normal part of the process. The body clears that. It's like uric acid, you know, you don't want it too much, but the body clears that, right? If I, if I take your bloods after exercise, for example, your lactic acid is going to be high, there's going to be high urea, it's protein breakdown, okay? Um, your body clears that. But again, I could see if I took your, your bloods after exercise, I could then equate and say, well, exercise is bad. Well, no, it's not. Exercise had an effect, right? It's gonna, it's gonna have an effect on your body. It's gonna break down protein. Your body's gonna clear that protein, and everything's gonna be okay. Your body's gonna get better at clearing those proteins because that's what the body does. So it was bad research, but it did start and kick off, um, this at the same time. So, so this was really a perfect storm. A lot of things aligned coincidentally with, with this, right? So, um, I'll give you some fatty terminology before we, we progress. Just again, to recap, a monounsaturated fat, a healthy fat, think of olive oil. A saturated fat is a very stable fat, it's a healthy fat, think butter. Polyunsaturated fat found in both foods, uh, in nature and in high amounts of hydrogenated and human-made oil, uh, human-made seed oils. Don't think of these fats as good or bad. Think more about the food source it comes from. Most fat contains a mixture of all three. That's the truth, right? They're going to— practically, it's going to have higher in one or the other. How are you consuming fats and what foods you're actually eating rather than prioritizing one fat over the other? So trans fats. Trans fats is universally regarded as the bad fat to eliminate or greatly reduce. This is found in traceable amounts in some animal products Naturally, it's found in high amounts in seed vegetable oils due to labeling laws most consumers are unaware. So those labeling laws in Australia, really key, right? In Australia, they do not have to label trans fats, right? If everyone wants to chuck their webcams on, actually, because everyone's taking their webcams off— when everyone's webcam's on, let's keep your webcams on so I can see you. Feel you. I'd like to do this in person, but let's not hide. I want to see you guys, you know, I'm going to be giving you a lot. Um, I'm cutting out, am I? Oh, I see. Um, that's, that's an issue if I'm cutting out. Hopefully I won't knock that out and stop cutting out. But, um, if I do cut out, obviously then do what you got to do. But trans fats in Australia, the labeling laws state that you don't have to label. They don't have to label. Right? In America, so long as something is below 0.5 of a serving size of trans fats, it is— it can be labeled as trans fats free. So that means, let's say for example, I make a cookie and I say on the label, the cookie serving size, it's a small cookie, let's say it's a 20-gram serving, right? And per serving of cookie, it's 0.4 grams trans fats. I can say on that cookie It's trans fats free, but because they're small cookies, you know, I know how Matty loves his cookies, he eats 3 of them, right? Well, he's going to have 1.2 grams of trans fats in that, in that eating 3 of them, right? So this is where with labeling laws in America, they can get away with this. In Australia, they just don't label it. The reason why they don't label it in Australia is because the regulators basically have stated that trans fatty acid intake they deem as less than what the World Health Organization would say is safe. What the World Health Organization says is safe is less than total— 1 gram of your total calories should come from trans fats. I'm sorry, 1% of your total calories should come from trans fats. They estimate that Australians are at that 0.6%. I don't know where they get that. I think they get these estimations from basically food— that is, agricultural reports, which basically state how much food is available in the country. I'm pretty sure that's how they deem like what the average Australian's eating and based food availability, which is very like— and the average Australian, what is it, 67% of Australians are obese. So you would say on that, trans fatty acids probably should— and, uh, cardiovascular disease as well is the biggest killer in the world, not COVID. Cardiovascular disease is the number one killer in the world. So when we get into the research about cardiovascular disease, it's like, well, really, just— there are some, some places in the world where they've been very aggressive in getting rid of trans fats. Like New York City, they've been very aggressive getting rid of partially hydrogenated fats. But the labeling laws, I think the governments could do a lot more there. Partially hydrogenated— so hydrogenated oils— hydrogenated oil is the chemical process of saturating a fat with a hydrogen to make it more stable. These oils and fats are not healthy. A partially hydrogenated oil is the chemical process of saturating the fat with a hydrogen to make it more stable. These oils are not healthy. In fact, partially hydrogenated oils are worse than hydrogenated oils. Because they contain more saturated fats. Vegetable oils, vegetable oils, these seed oils, examples of canola, Crisco, soybean shortening, and margarine. Although technically you'd say canola and Crisco, maybe they're not necessarily vegetable oils because they're from the cottonseed plant, they're still from plants. So you would say then you have your fruit and nut oils, your fruit and nut oils, a coconut oil, uh, coconut oil, olive oil, avocado oil, Most of these oils, they're not hydrogenated, and so long as they're not hydrogenated, they're good oils, right? So then we've got to talk about now saturated fat, hydrogenated oils, and cholesterol, right? So we've got to unpack this. So the research that really— the big push for such demonization of saturated fats came from a fella named Ancel Keys. Ancel Keys was given I think close to $2 million of today's money. It wasn't— I think it was $170,000, but today it would equate to about $2 million to conduct the biggest research paper that was ever done at the time. And, um, that was basically to, to show and to investigate his hypothesis, which was essentially, uh, high cholesterol causes heart disease, and eating saturated fat causes high cholesterol, which causes heart disease. right? That was basically the lipid and the diet-heart hypothesis, right? All in one. So, um, you know, and it's interesting, at the time cigarette smoking actually got a better rep than saturated fat. Just putting that out there, right? Cigarette smoking, it was more like cigarette smoking is, is kind of better, like doctors are endorsing cigarette smoking, um, and poo-pooing saturated fat. So Ancel Keys He actually ended up as Time, the magazine Time, which was a big deal back in the day. It was a big deal until print came out. I mean, it's a big deal even now, right? Time Man of the Year. Ansel Keys became Time Man of the Year. I think it was 1967, he was Time Man of the Year. I think it was 1956. Oh, no, it was before that. I think it was 19— No, it was 1950. No, it wasn't. It was it was before 1953 or 1950. He did a study which was basically collecting data, and he collected data on 22 countries, right? And then out of those 22 countries, he culminated that data and published what was called the Seven Country Study. So he had data on 22 countries, but, you know, he, he published a paper that only looked and looked in depth at 7 of those countries. And lo and behold, it was the 7 countries that were in line with what his hypothesis was. So he excluded— he excluded— and there's a lot of papers, a lot of articles, papers, podcasts that have spoken about this in depth, which you can obviously look at. But he had an adversary at the time. His name was John Newcombe. John Newcombe believed that what Ancel Keys was saying was absolute garbage. And rubbish. And he looked at sugar and insulin as being the main drivers for heart disease. So what the truth is, is there is some links to saturated fat being a factor for heart disease, but it's not the sole factor. And there also, in his own research, if he looked at different countries, you could also equate things like actually the more saturated fat people consumed the less heart disease they had, um, if you use different countries. So there is an example of if you use— I've got it here in my notes— if he used— oh, it's up here— if he used— let me just get these right, uh, Israel, Austria, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, Norway— his graph would have shown the exact opposite of what the 7 countries showed. But obviously he didn't use those countries, he used different countries. But those, those countries showed actually, the higher amount of saturated fat intake, the less heart disease they had. Now, with that said, this study had massive flaws. One of the big flaws that I like to point out is that it wasn't actually done on what people ate. The study was done on the food that was available in the country. So what he did was he looked at agricultural reports and equated, oh, They have X amount of meat available in this country. They have X amount of vegetables available in this country. They have X amount of this oil available in this country. This is what people must be eating based on agricultural reports. It wasn't what people were eating. Obviously, a lot of countries throw out their food, and the more meat generally that's produced in the country, the wealthier the country. Interestingly, and this is key as well, The study did not equate the cigarette smoking and alcohol and tobacco use. Now, what we know today is those 3 things are far bigger risk factors than saturated fat, meaning if you're a cigarette smoker, I think it doubles your risk of cardiovascular disease, right, if not more. So regardless of whether you eat saturated— you can be a vegan cigarette smoker not eating any saturated fat. If you're a smoker, that's going to have a much more impact than how much saturated fat you have, that is for sure. So the biggest risk factor here, and that wasn't equated for properly at all in his data, was cigarette smoking, and that wasn't equated for. So again, wealthier countries generally, you could probably assume— I don't know if it's a correct assumption, but they're probably going to have access and more funds for more tobacco, alcohol, drugs, or maybe there's a statistic, but you have to equate for those things. Otherwise, the study is not very good. So to backtrack, just to give you some, again, some terminology. The lipid hypothesis was— and this was what was developed by Nikolai in 1913— was the hypothesis that high cholesterol in blood causes heart disease. That was the original hypothesis. Ancel Keys added to this hypothesis. His hypothesis was the diet-heart hypothesis, which was that saturated fat Intake causes cholesterol in the blood, which causes heart disease. So the first hypothesis just said that cholesterol causes heart disease. Ancel Keys' hypothesis laid direct aim at saturated fat. Now, this timing was perfect for vegetable oils because not only did this research sniper shoot a bullet directly in the heart of butter and lard, it killed saturated fat but also started promoting that polyunsaturated fats are healthier by way of comparison. Now, some other interesting things about Ancel Keys' own research. His own research showed this. If you took his paper, you could also equate the following: those with lower cholesterol had an all higher all-cause risk morbidity and mortality, as in they died from everything else more, more likely. So yeah, they died from cholesterol, but, and also they were far more likely to get cancer. So those who didn't die from heart attacks died from cancer instead. That was in his research as well. One of the things that I point out is actual fact, the cancer councils of the world, the charities, you know, there's the Heart Foundation. So the Heart Foundations of the world Australian Heart Foundation, American Heart Foundation took this research and started obviously heavily promoting a low saturated fat diet as the answer to cure all heart disease. The thing is, all you need to do is look at the stats. The stats clearly show that that approach has not worked. People have eaten less saturated fat because less saturated fat is in foods, but heart disease has gone up, right? It's still the biggest leading cause of, of death in the world. You could take his same research and equate that Cancer councils could say that eating a low saturated fat causes cancer. Obviously it would be foolish to do so because cancer in of itself is quite complex and has multifactorial. But the point that I'm getting at is this research was anecdotal. It was looking at— it was too broad. Factors weren't controlled. Cigarette smoking, key factors like cigarette smoking weren't controlled, and it didn't actually look at what people ate. It also didn't look at exercise either. It was all estimations. So it was bad science. In short, it was bad science, but he became Time Man of the Year. He was the champion that was going to cure heart disease. And the governments of the world, for whatever reason, they liked his message, and the food industry got on board. They got on board in a big way, and the public got on board. People were trying to refute it, but it became the flavor of the next, I don't know, 50 decades that saturated fat is bad and a low saturated fat diet will cure heart disease. Hasn't happened. And polyunsaturated fat and seed oils are the way to go. Now, one of the things that John Yudkin pointed out in his book Pure, White and Deadly was that you could actually look at TV sales and heart disease. And TV sales and radios basically follow the same chart. So the more TV sales and radios that got sold, it correlated perfectly with the increase of heart disease. Now, obviously, that has nothing to do with heart disease, but he points out basically that the conclusion was made falsely. You could, you can impose a lot of things on this graph. But it was, it was pure anecdotal and one doesn't cause the other, right? It's like, I think I said it last week's call about murders and ice creams. Murder rates go up when ice cream sales go up. So the ice cream sales cause murders or more murders cause murderers like ice cream. Obviously both of them are relevant, but they follow a perfect correlation to one another. And the reason why they follow a perfect correlation is because both of those things happen in summer, right? So people tend to get out more in summer. Murders are up in summer, and this is in New York City, people eat more ice cream. It has nothing to do with one or another, but they follow, they're correlated, right? But they don't cause each other. Correlation is not causation, and that's basically what Yudkin's point was with this. So the other thing that I want to point out is obviously this wasn't the only study done. One of the big studies was the Framingham study, which again has shown the same thing around there may be some correlations with saturated fat, increasing heart disease, but it's not like the only factor. And in some cases, a higher saturated fat diet is showing less heart disease and quite protective, as what his research shows. But it's not, it's not like a singular factor, singular variant. But the big one that I want to point you guys to, because you're running to this one quite a bit, is the Seventh-day Adventist studies. Who knows about the Seventh-day Adventist studies? Anyone? No, no one? Okay, so the Seventh-day Adventist— yeah, you do? Seventh-day Adventist studies.

Yeah, I know about it.

Showed that those who ate less saturated fat lived longer. Interesting conclusion to make from a group of devout Christians who went to bed on time, woke up on time, never drank, worked in the field all day. And yeah, they were vegan 100%. But again, this study vegans conclude from the Seventh-Day Adventist studies, which was heavily promoted by Kellogg's because he was a Seventh-Day Adventists, um, and Sanitarium and all those, those, um, wheat promoters back in the day, they, they promoted this as, you know, see, vegans are healthier, they get less heart disease. Yeah, but they, they don't smoke, they don't drink, they have an active lifestyle, they're getting sunlight, and their diet in comparison to the average diet is better. There's no doubt about it. You know, if you give someone a highly nutritious vegan diet compared to eating McDonald's 3 times a day or eating fast food 3 times a day, of course the vegan is going to do better. So the Seventh-day Adventist studies just showed, I believe, that what they did was healthy. It was definitely healthy. That's not saying that if you added meat to their diet that they still wouldn't be healthy, right? You could add meat to that diet and they would still be healthy. They did so many other things. And one of the variables, again, that's been pointed out so many times is smoking eating, drinking, going to bed late, exercise, vitamin D. They had all those things, and they also had a community. What was the impact of the community? And that's actually— the reason why that's relevant is because what's also been shown in the Blue Zone studies, which are the studies of centurions where people live the longest around the world, what's been shown in those studies is that community is such a big factor to longevity. It's an underrated factor. Yeah, you can drink right, eat right, go to bed on time, all those kind of things. But if you don't have community, that is quite a commonality. That's correlation, it's not causation, but it does show that, hey, there is something to being part of something to help you live long and prosperous. Any questions?

Sorry, Mark, just going back to your Seventh-day Adventist things, they've actually like in recent times they've actually included meat in some of their diets. Um, they define it as like a clean meat, which just means that, um, it needs to be like grass-fed and organic. Um, and there's certain meats that they won't go near. So like an unclean meat would be classified as shellfish or pork, for example. Um, but yeah, they're actually gravitating a little bit more towards— they're actually including some meat in their diet.

Is this in the Framingham studies or the Seventh-day Adventist studies?

Uh, Seventh-day Adventist.

Excellent, excellent. And, and do you know about the conclusions that have been made there, or, uh, I haven't read just the studies.

I was just, um, I was doing some research on it after you mentioned it a couple of weeks ago in one of our things. And, um, yeah, so originally they were predominantly, they were all vegan. Um, but yeah, it's only in recent times that they've actually accepted now having those cleaner cuts of meat as well.

Excellent, excellent. Um, cool, thanks for the share there. Uh, Mr. Mills, all right.

And it also, um, sorry, it also disregards vegans who come in and say now the Seventh-day Adventist doesn't eat meat. So I've had a couple of them, so you can use that too.

Yeah, awesome. Um, so hydrogenation, uh, sifting through— I've already kind of explained this, um, you know put into usable terms, so I'll skip through that. Uh, let me go to— so consumer benefits of hydrogenation and partially hydrogenated products are mainly that, like, margarine, vegetable oils, uh, are built on government misinformation and the lies spelt out by big food corporations with clever marketing. It was the false demonization of saturated fat that led to this taking favor. So instead of butter and lard, the choice alternative became hydrogenated margarine and vegetable oils. The irony of the situation is that hydrogenating oils or hydrogenating fats makes an unsaturated fat saturated, or at least saturating it with hydrogen to make it more stable and act like a saturated fat. The clear advantages of hydrogenation and partially hydrogenated to food manufacturers are it protects against oxidation, thereby prolonging shelf life of food. It alters the texture of food products, e.g. Frozen pizzas and pies, coffee creamers, prepackaged cakes, they're all hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated to keep these foods soft and moist upon opening. That's why they use it. And it can be produced at scale and it's very cheap economically, so they can use these oils. And again, I bought some nuts that were coated with some coconut oil. I think they had like a year shelf life on them or even maybe less. They don't last that long. When you're coating things with coconut, they spoil. When you, when you do the same process and you coat them with hydrogenated or hydrogenated oils, they obviously— the shelf life increases exponentially. So the two big problems with these oils that I see, um, to put it into real super simple terms, is this: trans fatty acids and the excess amounts of omega-6. Um, now one of the exceptions to this is that a lot of people point out is canola oil. Canola oil is quite high in omega-3, I have quite a piece on that. I'll get into that later. But omega-3, in short, when you cook, imagine cooking fish oil, what's going to happen? If you cooked fish oil, the omega-3 turns into omega-6. It's essentially what happens with canola oil. So folks who are saying canola oil is high in omega-3, yeah, but when you cook with it, it's not going to stay as an omega-3. It's going to oxidize and turn to omega-6, thereby expediting the amount of omega-6 that you have in canola oil and decreasing the amount of omega-3. So it's, it's kind of an erroneous argument to say that canola oil is high in omega-3 because you cook with it, and when you cook with it, it oxidizes the fat. So trans fats, so partially hydrogenated oils, not to be confused with hydrogenated oils. Partially hydrogenated oils is generally considered by most people in nutrition as bad. There's not really that many people who would say it's a good oil. In Australia though, Australia kind of a bit behind the eight ball on this, but in 2015, the American Food and Drug Administration, FDA, determined partially hydrogenated oils are no longer recognized as safe. More notably, New York City issued a complete ban on all their foods containing manufactured with hydrogenated oils. So go New York City. So they were declassified in 2015 on the GRAS list by the FDA, which is the generally recognized as safe, um, so not safe for human consumption. So, um, yeah, Because of that, the food manufacturers in America at least have really shifted to using hydrogenated oils. And there's ways that they've gotten around because the thing with the reason why food manufacturers like partially hydrogenated oils is from a chemical process, partially hydrogenated oils have a more light and fluffy texture. So if you think of something like margarine, margarine or cream that's used with partially hydrogenated is going to be partially hydrogenated. They're not going to use fully hydrogenated. And the reason for that is because it gives it that light and fluffy texture, that spreadable kind of thickness, whereas the fully hydrogenated is going to be a bit more dense. There is a way which I'll explain how food manufacturers get away around that. I've already spoken about labeling laws, so I can— they can skip that section. And in, in the chapter that I've written, I've got a few graphs and stuff which you can check out about like content, for example, how much trans fat is contained. But, you know, we did speak about canola oil 4. Canola oil trans fat can be anywhere from 1.9% to 3.6%, um, containing trans fat, and this is without it being cooked. So that's quite high in terms of how much trans fat. Walnut oil is fairly high in trans fat. Soybean oil, uh, partially hydrogenated soybean oil can have anywhere between 43% to 50% of trans fats in it. So it's super, super high. Olive oil is only 0.5%. Sunflower oil is 1.1%. So there is, um, quite a difference in how much trans fats. So, um, evidence on trans fats and the reason— so evidence on trans fats and polyunsaturated fats, uh, firstly, there are a lot of articles and books that don't distinguish between consuming naturally occurring trans fats and polyunsaturated fats from animals and unrefined plant products and those found in hydrogenated oils. So usually when we talk about polyunsaturated fats, they're just grouped as one. So, oh yeah, polyunsaturated fats are good, you know, they're in nuts. And then they say, you know, olive oil. Oh, and they're in hydrogenated oils. And then hydrogenated oils get hooked in with nuts, and that's not right to do because the amount's obviously quite different in what you're consuming. So they make blanket statements like, uh, you know, polyunsaturated fats are good for you, um, and all meat is bad for you. Um, the supplement fish oil has shown to have some beneficial, um— so omega-3 is technically a polyunsaturated fat. And as a supplemental fish oil, it has obviously numerous benefits and chronic conditions, including associated for decreases in breast cancer and disease and heart disease. One study showed that it was a type of polyunsaturated fat, so palmitic acid, stearic acid, trans fats, being associated with an increase of breast cancer. So basically the point here is that not all polyunsaturated fats are the same. Some can have a big increase in, in things that they are said to protect against, and some can have the reverse effect. So the, the detail is in— the dollar is in the detail with, with all things, right? So you can't make that blanket statement. Uh, those that include supplemental intake of EPA and DHA also had inverse associations with breast and breast cancer. So again, they're polyunsaturated fats This is why I emphasize food source rather than simplifying polyunsaturated fats are good or bad for you, because you've got to look at what polyunsaturated fats you're getting it from. Again, this is where stearic acid, palmitic acid, has been associated with increase of risks of breast cancer, whereas your, your DHA, EPA has been associated with decreased risks of things like heart disease. So Um, you've got to look at the details. So too much omega-3, um, uh, can present as a problem as well, although it's rare that omega-3 would ever be a problem in, say, the average person's diet. It's always usually a problem for omega-6. So if we talk specifically about trans fats, and I have studies, um, that basically I've linked all these points to— it's quite a few studies— but, um, it has an associated increased risk of non-fatal acute myocardial infarction It's been linked to breast cancers, cancer progression, inflammation, calcification of artery walls, and known risk factors to cardiovascular disease. It's linked to atherosclerosis in individuals with diabetes. Decreasing trans fats have been linked to improvements in metabolic syndrome, and it's been linked to chronic diseases or coronary diseases, obesity, and type 2 diabetes. So, you know, trans fats has been linked to some pretty nasty stuff. So when we're looking at big changes in people's diet or simple changes in people's diet, this one can't be overlooked. This literally, if all you did with one of your clients is change the type of fats that they're having, they're going to be healthier, which is really good news. It's really good for them. So again, this does not mean you should become obsessed with trans fats or trying to eliminate all trans fats from your diet, including from meat, dairy, and nuts. However, it does mean to limit junk food. And and cooking for yourself, don't ever use seed oils, right? Common sense. Uh, FYI, when you go out to grills or wherever it is, probably they're using a seed oil, right? They're probably using a seed oil. Should you not go out? No, go out. But again, it's going to be maybe once a week, so your exposure to these things is going to be quite limited, right? You don't want to be having these foods all the time is, is the take-home point there. So before I open up for questions, what I'm going to say is I said before of one of the ways, and this took me ages to research by the way, I had to figure it out because I'm not a food chemist or food scientist. So I had to call a few people and go through quite a bit of research. But the way, because partially hydrogenated oils were demonized, and particularly in America and New York City, So they had to figure out a way to create hydrogenated oils to make it more spreadable. So what food manufacturers did was they use a process of what's called intensification. Intensification is basically adding a catalyst to the oil, but when that catalyst gets added, they need to deodorize the oil. So when you deodorize an oil, the oil gets exposed to temperatures of around 200 degrees to 200 10 degrees Celsius to get rid of that catalyst that's inside from the intensification process. So the intensification process, or interestification process rather, basically helps the oil become more spreadable and gives it that light and fluffy texture that manufacturers love. But again, that would essentially— the catalyst in that needs to be removed because it's essentially poisonous to consume. So that's where they deodorize it and just make sure it's a really clean oil for consumption. And again, there was an urban myth that I spent probably over a week researching just this one thing, so quite a lot of time to research, to just uncover this one urban myth. And I did uncover it. The urban myth was that food manufacturers test for trans fats before the oil gets deodorized because if it was exposed to those high temperatures, it would create a lot more trans fats at temperatures around 210. Now, I can say I did find one study looking at this with rapeseed oil, I believe it was, and they looked at— so it's actually untrue, although I don't know, maybe because there is another rumor, and I, I reached out to a heap of different labs and they, they kind of didn't want to answer my question. But what I did find was one study showing with, I think, was soybean oil, the differences of trans fat formation on the deodorization phase. So they tested at 190 to 210, and then they tested it at temperatures above 210. At temperatures above 210, there is no doubt that if that's what food processors are doing, there is a huge exponential amount of trans fats that are, that are born from that type of heat exposure. Most of the trans fats that get made in oils are when they're exposed to that type of temperature. It's above the 210°C. Below that, it doesn't seem to be that much formation of 210°C. I would say on good faith and things that I've looked at is most food manufacturers with the science that we know are probably not exceeding those temperatures. So the trans fats that they declare are the trans fats that are on the labels. So that's, that's some good news. That's some good news, is that, that it is accurate, because there was this popular urban myth that was bothering me for a long time because I wanted to find out whether it was true or not. It turns out it's probably false. It's probably false based on my research, at least. It's probably false, and it's just more about what temperatures do the food processors use when they deodorize. If they use above 210, it's definitely high amounts of trans fats. If it is below or at 210, it's probably okay. So Tyrone adds, most places will deep fry with cottonseed oil and cook in pans with vegetable oil. Yeah, that's, that's pretty, pretty normal. Pretty normal, right? So, um, yeah, that's— I'm gonna open up for questions before I move into omega-6. I know I've given you guys kind of a lot of, uh, information about hydrogenated oils. Questions, just so I can and see where I'm at.

Just a question on saturated fats. So would you say that the division around whether saturated fats are healthy or not healthy is mainly because there's a lack of distinction around, like perhaps in the research, about what kind of foods to draw conclusions from?

Yeah, I mean, that's a huge thing. They confound variables. And you see this a lot with, with, with, um, nutrition in general, is they confound variables. So for example, um, saturated fat, you know, the person went to McDonald's 3 times a day. Yeah, okay, well, what's the variable there? If they're eating McDonald's 3 times a day, they're overweight, they're obese to begin with, they're at a higher risk to begin with. Um, they don't watch what they eat, they don't cook at home, they're being— there's other variants, chemicals in the food as well, um, excessive calories, they're not exercising, probably not getting any sunlight, live a sedentary lifestyle. So this is where the variables need to be controlled. Um, if you look at some of like cross-country studies, um, like from Argentina for example, and you look at some where heart disease is low, it's not like Argentinians eat less meat. They culture of eating meat, right? So it's like they have lower heart disease. Why? But it's also the quality of their food. So the disconnect with saturated fat equating— the later research, which I did the show with Dr. Johnny— Johnny— John O'Brien. John O'Brien. I'm getting my names confused. Dr. Johnny Bowden, not Tom. I combined Tom O'Brien and Johnny Bowden in the same sentence there. The podcast I did with Johnny Bowden talking about his book, The Cholesterol Myth. We get into how cholesterol has been falsely demonized. So it used to be just that total cholesterol as this marker of heart disease. It's false. Then it was, oh, it's LDL and HDL. That was false as well. Then it was, oh, it's VLDL and HDL, a little bit more true. And then it was all the ratios. But as research and science started to come more to the surface. What we now know, the biggest indicator when it comes to heart disease are cholesterol particle size and particle number. So if you're looking at cholesterol, you want to get particle size and particle number. That's going to tell you a lot more about— so it's not saying cholesterol does have a marker, but if you're just looking at total cholesterol, you can have high cholesterol, be quite protective, but you also got to ask, why is the cholesterol high? Cholesterol is a response to inflammation in the body. If it went to zero, you're in trouble. It's a precursor to all hormones, but also combined with that as a heart disease risk factor, you want to look at homocysteine, you want to look at triglycerides, you want to look at C-reactive proteins, you want to look at inflammation markers in the body. And, you know, if you're overweight, if you're not exercising, if you're not eating well, to just say, oh, I'm going to eliminate all the saturated fat out of my diet, it's kind of like, well, what's the point? You're doing all these other things wrong It's like pissing against the hurricane. You've got inflammation happening. If anything, the saturated fat's going to help with the inflammation. So it is a multifactorial disease. If it was simple as let's cut out saturated fat, we would have solved heart disease by now, but it's obviously not that simple. And yeah, in the studies, the confounding factors is they don't, they don't control for those factors. So, um, does that answer your question? Oh, and then if you look at some of the studies on like, say, um, cholesterol-lowering drugs, is they can have effect on long-term memory and short-term memory, um, because they block pathways in the brain for fatty acids to be uptaken by the brain. This is where there's been multiple cases reported, and you can Google this as well, about people taking their cholesterol-lowering meds, they wake up in their car driving going, how did I get here? Because it affects their short-term memory, right? Um, so It's not something that you want to be taking willy-nilly. And if that is an area that interests you, I'd recommend Johnny Bowden's book and the podcast that we did, which was The Great Cholesterol Myth, based on obviously his book. So yeah, there is a lot of bad research, but I'm not going to say it's not a factor. Of course it's a factor, but I'm just saying it's a multifactorial disease. What is a better fat? Saturated fat to cook with because it's a more stable fat, doesn't oxidize. And again, these fats, the, the seed oils, have absolutely been linked with cancers and still linked with heart disease. So they're not doing what you think they're doing. Okay, now the reason why they're linked with heart disease— omega-6. So quick, quick talk, quick, quick recap, differences between omega-3 and omega-6. Omega-3 is your anti-inflammatory fatty acid. Your omega-6 is your pro-inflammatory, um, right? So you need both. Generally speaking, based off research that we have today, uh, would say that you want a 4:1 ratio, which is I think conservative, of omega-6 to omega-3. That means you want to have, uh, 4 times the amount of omega-6 in your diet as omega-3. Now personally, paleo advocates would say you want to have a 1:1, and they'll say that the average paleo man and woman had a 1:1 ratio. I would say 1:1 is good, but I'd also be happy with a 1 to 2, even 1 to 3, right? Um, you know, let's not go crazy. But what we do know is that the average Westerner has an 18 to 1 ratio, which is, which is mind-boggling, right? That's, that's huge. That's well over and above. So this is why when you guys supplement with fish oil, people go, ah, start to feel better, you know, not as inflamed. It's because you're shifting their omega-3 ratios and the omega-6. Most people are having far too much omega-6, far too much omega-6, and not enough omega-3. And I don't think it's just about let's increase people's omega-3 artificially. It's let's reduce their omega-6 intake, right? Let's reduce their omega-6 intake to something that's normal. Let's aim for that 4:1, even possibly 3:1 or 2:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3, and let's get this inflammation under control.

Right?

Um, so from research, a ratio of a 4:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 has been associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. That is fucking huge, right? Research also points out, depending on chronic conditions, stage of life, amount of physical training, ratio should be altered. For example, a ratio of 2:1 has been recommended for patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Why? Because rheumatoid arthritis is the problem of too much inflammation. So it makes sense, if you've got inflammation, you want to have things that are inflammation sequestering. So a high diet in omega-6 has been linked with chronic inflammation, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, cardiovascular disease, obesity, inflammatory bowel disease, rheumatoid arthritis, Alzheimer's disease. Not good stuff, right? After reading this, you can see why when you type in on PubMed omega-3 and it has a, has a lot of benefits because a lot of the— too much omega-6 is the— it's, you know, that there's that— I think there's a book published or a saying in functional medicine, inflammation is the silent killer. If you can prevent inflammation— again, this is where omega-3 has become so popular, uh, it's to prevent because the average diet is an 18:1 ratio. right? So you're going to have a huge benefit from doing that. So things that you should know: oils and omega-6 at a high— so I, I looked this up so many times because I didn't believe it when I read it. I got these ratios basically also from, um, it's called My Food Database. So myfooddatabase.com if you want to look any of what I'm saying up. But I looked this up a bunch of times because I didn't believe what I'm about to tell you. Omega-6 to omega-3 ratios grapeseed oil, 696 to 1. Don't use grapeseed oil. Cottonseed oil, 257.5 to 1. Corn oil, 46.09 to 1. Rice bran oil, 20 to 1. Soybean oil, 7.5 to 1. Canola oil, 2 to 1. So you can see where some of these cottonseed oils, right, You say, wow, why is the average Westerner, they're 18:1 ratio, why are we so high in omega-6? You start to look at these ratios of oils and you're like, oh, I understand why. Soybean oil, free rice bran or cottonseed oil, vegetable oils, they're high. And we say canola oil again, well, man, what about canola? Canola oil is fine. Canola oil is fine. It's 2:1. What you got a problem with canola oil, bro? Well, as I said, If we heat canola oil, imagine heating fish oil, it's going to oxidize the oil. So there ain't no way that when you heat that canola oil, that's staying in a 2:1 ratio. It's going to oxidize. It's going to be much, much higher, much, much higher than what you bargained for. So you've got to add heat to these oils. And this is where saturated fats are better at stabilizing. It's like coconut oil is one of the best fats to cook with. It doesn't go rancid at high heat temperatures because it's completely saturated. All right, so this is why I, I don't like the taste of coconut oil when I cook certain foods as much. That's why I like butter, ghee. I don't really use much lard in my cooking, but I'm a fan of it, and I definitely would just haven't used much. I always go to butter. It's not as easy to get, like where I shop they don't sell, sell it, but, um, you know, uh, it's— that's, that's that. So, uh, what do we got here? I'm just going to review couple of things, make sure I've covered, uh, what I need to tell you guys. Um, yeah, important note, the ratio is above to omega-6 omega-3 before cooking, so the ratios would be considerably higher. The average temperature of a deep fryer is 177 to 190 degrees, 191 degrees Celsius. And also, that's not to factor in time as well, because you can imagine in some deep fryers the oil's there all day So, you know, whether it's heat or whether it's time exposure, it's probably both. Um, those oils are going to oxidize as well, and we know heat's deoxidized— oxidize your omega-3s. So summary points on omega-6, uh, in the US, despite labeling laws of trans fat-free, oils may still contain trans fats if under the 0.5 serving. In Australia, New Zealand, companies do not need to label trans fats. Um, they can just So it's nothing unless of course they make health claims directly, then they do. Heat oxidizes omega-3 and turns into omega-6. Most people are already consuming far too much omega-6. High heat increases omega-6 content of any hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oil. Almost all fast foods are cooked and in restaurants as well in hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. Consuming hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated— if you're consuming them, consuming them in moderation. Questions? No questions. So to recap, um, it's multifactorial. You know, uh, cholesterol and heart disease has been sold, I think, to the public a bit like a silver bullet. It's kind of like you change this one thing and you'll be healthy. But health is multifaceted, and as much as I like silver bullets, they're usually not true. They're usually a myth, right? The silver bullet that's going to fix everything, it's usually false. So this certainly, um, is, is the case. Uh, I'd also point out that heart disease is the leading cause of death worldwide, and it doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon. The governments and health organizations silver bullet advice of avoiding saturated fat, eliminating cholesterol, avoiding heart disease has been a total adjunct failure, only comparable to the government's failed war on drugs. And the reason why I say that is because if you look at drugs supply, supply and demand, the cost of drugs has gone down over time. So that again, the cost of drugs has gone down over time, which only indicates there are more drugs available, not less, despite the war on drugs. So if there's The war on drugs was effective, then the drugs— the cost of drugs would go up. It's gone down because there's more drugs. So just like the fact with saturated fat, we have higher rates of heart disease, not lower. So it hasn't worked. So yeah, let's do a, um, let's do a summary, guys. Let's open up the, open up the line. I'd like to hear your thoughts. I've got some tables that I can share with you. Just let's go one thing that you took away. Gotta go. Tyrone loved it. Uh, open up, let's do a summary. Start with you, Jacko. Um, oh, okay. Yeah, no, that was awesome.

Um, I really enjoyed especially the historical context around like even now it seems like a lot of that, um, the early kind of introduction of, you know, hydrogen oils is kind of still present in um, one food culture. So yeah, that was really interesting.

Yeah, it's, it's prevalent. It's so prevalent. It's so prevalent. Maddie? Um, yeah, I thought it was really interesting as well. Um, I think, yeah, there was a lot to talk about. Um, I think one thing that I took away, I think it was more about the omega-6 with a 4:1 ratio um, how apparently— I think you said 70% decrease in, um, increased mortality. I think that's what you said. Sounds right. Yes. Yeah, that's pretty— that's pretty insane.

I have a question actually, um, just on omega-3s.

Can they be too high?

Like, um, in a sense that if you have someone on a high-fat diet where they're using a lot of butters, coconut oils, can, yeah, too high omega-3 be an issue?

I don't think anyone's going to have a too high omega-3 from just like eating food, but let's say if you, you had a very aggressive dose of say omega-3 supplement supplements, um, I think yes you can. So the telltale sign of too much omega-3 in your diet is let's say you get cuts, right? You cut your, your hand and you don't stop bleeding. It thins the blood, right? So, um, the pro-inflammatory— if you like, say Matty's playing soccer, right? He plays soccer, you know, gets in a scuffle, he falls over, grazes his knee, and you know, it's a bit of a wound and just keeps bleeding, right? But the body's response to that is to send, let me get, uh, pro-inflammatory to seal it up, seal the wound up and help him heal. So pro-inflammatory, you need pro-inflammation You need inflammation. The body needs inflammation to protect itself. It's not inflammation is bad, it's just it needs to be done at the right time. But let's say, so I like with boxers and fighters who I worked with in the past, I'm always instruct before the fight to get off all omega-3 supplements because if they do get cut, they're not going to seal up. They're going to keep bleeding. The blood's going to get thinner. If you're having surgery, you want to get off all your omega-3 supplements. You take them after, after the surgery. To help you with the inflammation. But during the surgery, you, you want, um, pro— you want the pro-inflammation cascade to take effect. You want the body to seal that up. So yes, you can have too much omega-3 in your diet. Um, I think it'd be very rare because butter, for example, and all your animal fats, they're going to have omega-6 in them anyway. It's not like, uh, like even the best grass-fed, uh, butter and milk— if you look at grass-fed, uh, cows, for example, depending on whether it's in summer, a cow can fluctuate anywhere between, I think, 1:1 up to a 1:4 ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 in terms of the components in, in milk. If it's in summer, it's going to be higher in omega-3. If it's in winter where the sun's not available to increase the amount of nutrition in the grass that they're eating, it's going to be a bit lower. In commercially grown dairy, it's a 1:10— it's about a 1:10 ratio, so it's a lot higher. So for folks who are eating just kind of generally general food, they're getting a balance of the omega-6 to omega-3 anyway. So I would say generally from it, from that type of diet, you don't have anything to worry about. But if you are heavily supplementing with, with other oils that are specifically omega-3, then yeah, sure, and it can be a problem. So something to watch out for, but it is, it is more of a rarity, um, to find It's not, it's not common. Yeah.

I hope you enjoyed that podcast with me and the crew on hydrogenated oils and partially hydrogenated oils. And if you did enjoy that podcast, you want to share it with your friends and family, go right ahead. And while you're at it, if you leave us a review on iTunes, we would be foreverly, foreverly, we would be very thankful to leave us a review. It really does help get the word out and rank our podcast on good old iTunes. So if you're on iTunes listening to us on iTunes, please leave us a review and a question or a comment. If you want to ask us a question, you can head over to our Instagram pages. So you can head over to my Instagram page, it's @markottobre, it's O-T-T-O-B-R-E. B-R-E, or you can head over to the Enterprise Fitness Instagram page, which is Enterprise Fitness AU. Feel free to shoot us a DM, ask us a question, a topic that maybe you want me to tackle and do an episode like this on. Happy, happy to do it.

Happy to do it.

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Peace out. We balance out the fat and measure out the cream and build it with the team. I'm living out my dreams. You're different from the rest. Give you my very best.