S6:E11 - Why Most Personal Training Clients Fail!

Why do personal training clients fail despite their best efforts in hiring a coach? Hi, my name is Mark Ottobre, and in this episode of the Enterprise Fitness Podcast, we are going to be unpacking the biggest reasons why people don't achieve their goals despite the hard work that they put in. I am joined today by two fabulous Enterprise senior coaches, Crooksy, Matthew, and Ari, welcome to the show, gents. So I'm gonna let you guys kick it off. Why do you think personal training clients fail? Failed, fail.

Yeah, it's a broad question because there's a lot— not just— I don't think there's one reason why. I think the main one has to be compliance and understanding your client more. I remember even when I started, I was quite strict with everything in terms of nutrition-wise and everything in terms of training, make sure that— but life happens and things happen. So I think the biggest thing is understanding where the client is coming from in terms of what they know, and that all comes from being in the session one. So our nutrition session, goal-setting session, I think that's going to be the main thing.

I think you actually touched on something very pertinent actually, and I didn't even have this thought coming into this episode, but Actually, you said something there where I think the reason why a lot of people fail is the all-or-none mentality, right? People— and the thing about the all-or-none mentality is the all-or-none mentality usually seldomly gives you all but often gives you none. More often gives you none than gives you all. And I think people come into coaching a lot of the time thinking that, you know, overnight we're going to get this result. And some people do. Some people, they go into coaching and they do a 12-week challenge, and that 12-week challenge They put everything into it. The problem with that mentality though that I see 9 times out of 10 is that they don't sustain it. They don't continue it. And it becomes, I'm just gonna do this with everything I've got and then I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna go back to doing what I was doing before I found that coach who just told me what to do. And obviously I talk about this a lot in my book. I talk about this a lot just in general. And that's the be, do, have formula. And even more than that, which you guys are now very familiar with, the DILTS model, the science of change, which is that the identity, beliefs and values, skills and skill sets, behaviors, environment. Before I get in too much into that, Ari, what thoughts did you have on this topic?

I think the important thing here is to understand that by asking this question, we're not frowning upon or being condescending towards any past, current, or prospective clients, because it's a two-way street, right? Why do personal training clients fail can be attributed to actions of both the client and both the coach. So I would say in my experience, a typical instance of each in, say, if it's primarily the coach's fault that a personal training client fails, I think the North Star is always going to be exactly what you mentioned before, and that's sustainability. Always, whether it's training, nutrition, lifestyle, the most effective approach that for anyone to take is going to be whatever the most sustainable approach is. It's about creating sustainable habits so that if they are to walk out of the four walls of enterprise and revert back to their old habits, we haven't done our job properly.

But I also think sustainability, yes, but there's another key factor that, and that's expectation. So I think often what I see, this story that I like to tell, is that We had a client who started and she was doing phenomenally well. Like, she lost 4 kilos in 2 weeks and she said, oh, my results are really slow. I'm like, hang on, you've lost 4 kilos in 2 weeks. That's— we at most would aim for a kilo a week. You're literally 2 weeks ahead of schedule. Why do you feel like a failure? Oh, I thought I'd lose 8 kilos by now. Whoa, hang on, wait a minute. Let's go back to expectation chat, right? The expectation was never to lose that much weight. The expectation was at most a kilo a week. And I think Sometimes what happens is with coaches is, and this is where we now I think have it down to a fine art with all the tidbits that we do, is the expectation of when people come in, that can often feel like failure. If I said to you, Ari, in 2 years you're going to do a photo shoot, right? And I've clearly laid it out and that's your expectation, then you're going to be a lot more comfortable knowing this is the process of 2 years. Whereas if I say in, in 12 months and you don't get there, or in 12 weeks you're going to get this goal and you don't, it might be, let's say, 20 weeks, right? The fact that it's longer than what I told you, that feels like failing. And I think there's nothing about people failing or falling short of that expectation that feels good, that motivates people, if that makes sense. So from the initial, you have to set clear expectations as a coach. And I love what you said, which was it's a two-way street. There has to be that clear expectation that your coach tells you, hey, this is what I think you're going to achieve. And equally, the expectations on the client of, if you want this goal, this is also what is required of you to achieve that goal. And if you're going to fall short of that, that's okay as well. We just need to adjust our goals to our level of commitment going forward. Agreed.

I think that's spot on. Like, I know CEOs, business owners that come here, and this goes back to what I said, and I think I said it in previous podcasts a couple of episodes ago, like We get a lot of CEOs and business owners that come in here, and you've got two things: time, or you've got money. So you've got to find something. And I've learned that from you. I think James actually said it in an internship, but I think you taught it to him.

So anyway, we'll credit James for it.

Yeah, we'll just credit James. Shout out, James. Now, I think that's so important because if you give a client—

well, just before, because you actually haven't said the saying, it's you either have more money than time or time than money. Just for those who are listening at home, make sure that they're credit me for it.

Thank you.

So there are two camps, right? There's two camps. You are either someone who has more money than time or time than money, and that's irrespective of how much money and time that you have, right? In saying that, you have to choose which one you are, and once you make that choice, that is the filter of how you make decisions, which is great because then you just make decisions faster.

Because then if you've got neither, you're doing something wrong. You've got no time or money, you're doing something wrong, right?

Something wrong.

Yeah. So going back to what I was saying with the CEOs and business owners, I know I've got a couple, or busy mums, say for instance, or busy dads, etc., single parents that come in and they don't have time to cook because of their kids, because they look after them, etc., these type of things.

Pay someone to do it.

Yeah, you gotta pay somebody to do it, and that's fine, and that works out quite well, and they enjoy the food. And that's where the importance of understanding your client and where they're at comes in. If I gave them a nutrition plan and said, this is what you need to do, the chances of them following it is going to be very low compared to me just coming in, maybe first 5-10 minutes, this is what your macros are in terms of your nutrition plan, this is what we're going to have, you're going to have this 3 meals a day, let's buy it all from say Get Fed or Food Fitness.

Is that a free shout out?

Yeah, so shout out Get Fed and Food Fitness.

Next one you guys can pay us with food.

Matt 10%, all right, just put that down at the bottom. No, it doesn't work. But I think if we didn't give them that option of being able to get it from those places, they wouldn't follow it.

Yeah, well, understanding it's the equivalent of like the trainers who are like, yeah, look, I want you to go on a calorie-controlled plan, and the client eats every meal out. So Like, what, is the client going to bring scales? Say, waiter, excuse me, sorry, can you weigh my chicken before you bring it out? I want to make sure it's 150 grams. No, man, it's not gonna happen.

No, I think the thing is it does exist.

It does exist.

Oh, it does. But I have a question for Matt, just extending on from talking about clients that have their meals prepped for them. Do you find it any more challenging to teach the sustainable behaviors that you want to teach them for a client that is, say, having all of their meals prepped for them? They're not prepping their food themselves, they're not cooking it, they're not looking for those ingredients. It's just they get a box of food, they eat it.

No, um, I think it comes to a point where— it's a good question because my job and our job is to also teach the client. Because similar to what you said, not everybody's going to stay at Enterprise, as much as we'd love them to, if they leave and they've achieved their goals, etc., I've done my job as a coach and they understand everything in terms of the macronutrients, your proteins, fats, carbs. I still teach them that. It's just, okay, I'll teach you it, however you don't have time to cook it. That's why we're gonna go this option here. Even though I'm not like, okay, getting them to prep it and etc. and stuff like that, then you're explaining to them, yeah, we're explaining why you're having this, why you're having your carbohydrates, pre-training, after training, teaching people to be resourceful. Yeah, correct.

Because if they—

and it's what, um, Ari said before— if they leave the gym and they put it all back on and they just go back to the old ways, I've not done my job as a coach because I'll take accountability for that. They should understand why they're having protein in, in their day, why they're having their fats in their day, why they're having carbs in their diet, why they're eating veggies, these type of things.

Yeah. And that's a good segue to go back to what I was talking about when I introduced the DILTS model, which is— so the DILTS model, for those who are just listening to this, imagine a pyramid or imagine a triangle, right? A triangle divided up into 5 slots. So at the top you have your identity. Below the identity you have your beliefs and values. Then you have your skills and skill sets. Below your skills and skill sets you have your behaviors. And below your behaviors you have your environment, right? And you touched on something very pertinent, which is when you address the skills and skill sets, when you teach someone a better way to do it, that often flows directly into someone's behaviors, which then flows directly into someone's results. Often people just say, let's focus on the behavior. So the difference is, if you're saying to someone, I want you to eat chicken breast, or I want you to eat a piece of protein 6 times a day, that's a behavioral intervention. Whereas if you sit down with someone and explain to them, the reason why I want you to have protein at every meal is because it's satiating, it's gonna help you build muscle, it's gonna help your skin, your hormones, all these other things, it's gonna fill you up. The first 30 grams of protein goes towards your immune system. Protein has all of these different functions along with the amino acids. And people really understand it. That's a level of skills and skill sets, which then people go, ha, I know why I'm doing this. Then the behavior changes, which then changes the result.

No, I, I don't disagree with that. I think that's like 100%. I don't agree. I disagree.

Sorry, I don't agree.

I don't agree. I don't disagree.

It all sucks.

Yeah, I think going back to that, it was what you said perfectly, was— and it was only the smallest thing in terms of the behaviors, the reason why you're having it. And then I just want you to eat this. Like, anybody can say I just want you to eat 6 meals a day that we've got protein in it. It's why. That's the main thing that you're saying to the client, why you're eating.

Yeah, because obviously you guys know I assess every trainer for the nutrition, and I've only ever ticked off one trainer from the nutrition consultation first time, and that's Ari.

You go into a funny story. So the first time I had Mark— I'm looking at the camera. First time, no, the first— I was nervous, I'll be honest. So I first—

I'm gonna make you cry.

No, the first time I had you for a nutrition consult I was— I think we were on that table over there, and I was waiting to go to the toilet, and I think it was like 2 minutes late. I think you remember this. I was walking, I've sat down next to you, book's already everything, and then he looks at his watch, he goes, you're 2 minutes late. And I was like, oh yeah, I was just— I think it was— I think it's when— I don't know what trainer was in the toilet, but I was like, oh, so-and-so was in the toilet. And you go, I don't care, you're 2 minutes late. If I was a client or a CEO or a businessman or someone like this I would have left. And I was like, all right, good start, great start.

Yeah, look, for the assessments, I really push you guys. It's like, I, I push you guys. And look, that's a little bit of insights. Thank you for sharing the story. But that is the reason, and one of the big reasons, that at Enterprise we've been here for 10 years and the standard has never dropped, because of the fact that I'm pretty ruthless when it comes to holding the standard. Well, I'm very ruthless when it comes to holding the standards, because I want to make sure that like when people come here, it doesn't matter who, where Whether you're training with Ari, you're training with Maddie, you're training with Jacko, you're training with Jane, whoever it is, whoever you're training with, you're going to be looked after. So for sure, I don't know where I was going with that, but I just sidetracked into that story. But the point is, we do the assessment, and from that assessment, we make sure that we're able to help you. Yeah, but I lost where we were going.

I think you were talking in regards to the nutrition side, how I was talking about the behaviors. So like, why? And then, so like, why?

Oh yes, yes, sorry. So I was doing— yes, thank you. I was doing an assessment, right, for a new trainer, and the client that he was— I was watching him do it. The guy said, what do you have for breakfast? I have Nutri-Grain. What do you have for lunch? I have a kebab. What do you have for dinner? I have pizza. And then the trainer goes, all right, we're going to do macros. And I was like, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, let me ask you a different question. I asked the client, do you know how to cook? No. Have you ever meal prepped? No. I'm like, all right, this is where we've got to start. We've got to start on the fundamentals of— you don't deserve macros, right? Macros, we just say some macro numbers. Like, you don't even know how to make eggs in the morning, so let's talk. As a single guy who's in his early 20s, never really cooked food in his life, just everything out of a box, that's where we had to start. I think sometimes, like, why clients fail— and this is just the thing of chunking too high— a lot, and I see this a lot, people, trainers they do a lot of courses or additional courses and they learn more and more advanced techniques and things, but they don't learn principles. And principles, as I say, techniques, it just are, right? Anyone can use the technique and technique can be great, but it can be terrible, right? Depending on whose hands it's in. Principles are, they decide what technique you actually use. So is this person, and you run them through your principles of where this, and my first principle in terms of consulting is always awareness. It's always awareness. And then what is my intent? So in that awareness of who is sitting in front of me, what are their unique conditions, what's their content in terms of the way they're going to construct all of these things? And then I'm going to give them the advice. But I need to know everything about them first before I go, we're going to do macros, we're going to do a food system, we're going to do milk, because my advice can be completely different based on who's sitting. And the only way you get there is as a coach is you have awareness of who you're speaking to.

And I think that's— it's like the analogy, you've got your toolbox, you've got meal plan, food system, or macros. If you have a coach that just sticks to one technique of macros, then obviously it's not going to work. If it's just macros and then you have a client that needs a food system or meal plan, then yeah, yeah.

So for those who are interested, we'll get too deep into food system, but just as an overview, we do talk about it. I talk about a lot in my book, but your meal plan basically is where you're just eating off a meal plan, everything's set for you. Your macros are where you're counting and interchanging things, and your food system is basically basically doing the same thing as macros instead of counting macros, just counting food, which is pretty, pretty easy. Ari, you haven't really said that much today.

Oh, quite a church mouse. What I was going to say is you raise a very interesting point a couple minutes ago about trainers. I think I want to take this chance to put it back on the trainers, on the PTs, those who are constantly doing those courses, doing those seminars. I think this was— learned this from you and from John Berardi, who's absolutely fantastic as well. You guys speak about if you're going to do a course or seminar, always relate it back to what you need to develop the most as a trainer. If you need to work on coaching nutritional behaviors, then maybe that shoulder anatomy and rehab course that's coming up isn't the most important thing for you to do right now. Is it going to be valuable information? Sure, but is it something that you're going to administer to even one of your clients? If you're lucky. Is doing a course where you're coaching fundamental sustainable nutrition behaviors— that's likely going to be something that you can apply to most, if not all, of your clients. Best advice for PTs is stop collecting certificates and awards like you're Thanos collecting Infinity Stones.

Can I show you what's most important? My pet peeve is trainers doing blood analysis courses.

Why?

Because it's just most clients who are coming in, they, they need to look— blood and understanding blood, it's, it's useful for sure, and you should have a general understanding, but I really don't feel like it's the role of a trainer at all to, to be diagnosing or identifying things. It's indicating data, but I really think it is something— it's such a specifically, I say, because Christine from Alexia, she analyzes blood work, and it is so nuanced and technical and difficult, the level. So I can only imagine if I said to you guys, hey, you guys got to do your clients' bloods as well as be their personal coach, as well as do their training program, and as well as what, keep their behaviors on track with nutrition. And by the way, you're going to look at their bloods and then assess them and then put a supplement program together. On their bloods, the level of nuance that is required to go into the bloodwork, I think, is just— and getting it wrong as well. There is a margin for error. You definitely— because gut health and gut issues, they're no easy thing to solve. And I think definitely that's what she does full time. That's all her world is looking at bloods and she'll see bloods and go, yeah, this person is a vegan, this person is— this person has this. Just from looking at the bloods and be 100% accurate, right? So I just think it's such a new skill. But that is my pet peeve because I think what it does is, as trainers, 90% of our income is on the gym floor, right? And obviously the other things that we do, but it's that session, it's the ability when we show up, we know how people move, able to put the program together. And then, you know, the other part of that is to get people results, is to put a working lifestyle plan together which incorporates sleep, good food, good habits, good things that do that. I think there's just 80% of the rocks can be moved with those two things alone. And then, hey, look, if you've got gut issues or if you've got ulcerative colitis or you've been battling with some parasite for the last 6 years, you know what, man, that ain't my toolkit.

Oh, it's 100% right. And in the same way that we're putting it on clients to— or we're encouraging us to teach clients to be resourceful. As trainers, we need to be resourceful as well and understand and swallow our pride when something is outside of our scope, and understanding who to perhaps refer someone to for a specific problem. And I think it's important as a PT to not be afraid to tell your clients if they ask you a question and say, I don't know, I don't know, okay, I know someone who does.

Yeah, perfect. That's a good question, let me ask somebody that does, that knows the question, that knows the answer. Like, yeah, spot on.

And the other thing is, I know a lot of trainers sometimes get into the life coaching phase of let me talk about you.

What is a life coach, by the way?

I don't know, but man, I don't want to be dealing with people's childhood traumas, I can just tell you that much, because that stuff is heavy. Like, I certainly— Forrest, who's been on the podcast 'Oh man, you got childhood trauma you gotta deal with? Let me hook you up with my friend Forest. She's awesome and she'll hypnotize you and find out all that stuff and then be able to deal with it, because man, I ain't equipped to deal with these, nor do I want to. That is a huge responsibility. I'd rather just take care of your biceps, man. I got my own trauma to deal with.' I know, I don't want to be dealing with yours.

Yeah, for sure. I was going to ask you, what do you find— you've been PT now for 20 years. 20 years.

So I start— I, I finished school 2003.

Yep.

I did my first bodybuilding comp in 2004.

Yeah.

I did my PT certificate in 2005.

Yep.

And I started work full-time as a PT 2006.

That's a lot. Yeah, that is a lot. I was going to ask you, over your time being a PT, what have you found that's changed so much in terms of why clients fail? Is there a difference? Is there, is there a difference from 10 years ago as there is till now? Like, I know you've trained competitors, your everyday client, your athletes. Is there a difference?

Prime ministers?

Prime ministers, yes.

Um, all right, so my level— the easy answer to that is my level of awareness. And so my level of awareness of why clients have failed, and I reflect back on the clients who I didn't help, where I failed to help, what was my failure in that? And I think fundamentally my failure was I definitely started off my career as the hardcore guy, which was like, you're here because you want to train hard, you want to get a result, let's diet you hard, let's get you up on stage, let's get your weight loss. And yes, I've always been in the personal development world of psychology and understanding that, so people did stick those behaviors and have really good results, but I didn't do it in the most artful way, or I suppose I didn't maybe, and I was maybe more judgmental, I guess, if I'm being totally honest, which I guess I am. Well, I am. So now it's like you can tell me whatever, and there really is no judgment whatsoever. I accept anything the client says. And from that shift, because clients just tell me everything, um, I know everything about them. They'll tell me like deepest, darkest secrets. And from that place, and that's what I really try and cultivate with every relationship really, is that I can only help you based on the data that you give me. So the more data that you give me, I'm not going to judge you on it. Then I can use that data and coach you more effectively. And I think my ability to talk about that with clients has just increased exponentially. So they really get the intent of why these things and how this might be helpful in the conversation. So I think in terms of what's changed in terms of why clients fail, I think now more than ever because of social media, the level of expectation is so much higher from clients. And I think that really does affect sometimes the relationship of, hey, but I saw X, Y, and Z do A, B, and C. Why aren't I doing A, B, and C? Not that becomes much of an issue, say, if like they're working with someone here because the level of trust is so high. But I can see how it does. People want to jump from diet to diet, diet more frequently because social media, the reality of social media is people compare what happens in their backstage of life, you know, all the shit that they go through, the messes that they have backstage, to other people's highlight reels. And especially it's true with the world of competing. It's, here are my photos where I look peak performance, but you didn't see the 16 weeks leading up, how hard it was, how many times you want to quit. Always these photos, and people go, oh, I'm going to look like that in 16 weeks, it's going to be easy, right? That— it's the expectation that that clients have because they're just bombarded by these images and also the expectation of what they can achieve in, let's say, a year of training.

That's exactly right, because it's that constant highlight reel that is people's and fitness influencers' news feeds that essentially changes how people perceive what's realistically attainable. Because what are a lot of these people going to do? They're going to do one or two photo shoots throughout the year. They're going to get into that shape where they're going to compete once a year. They're going to take thousands of photos in different outfits, different settings, and that's what they're left with to post year-round on their feed. It looks like their photo shoot or competition lean year-round when realistically they look like that for a week at best. Oh, I think we've all had clients come to us and say, why does this person look like this all the time? They don't.

The other thing I'll say is that I've noticed, and it obviously doesn't happen here because we have such— but what I see, because people come through our courses, is so many— and I've said this a few times— but so many trainers are just so focused on techniques, and so many trainers have become focused so much on what is the perfect macro split to get the client on so they can change. And so we're having Siri comment on this podcast, but you know, so many trainers have come in and what is the perfect— because I've gone around, spoken to a bunch of different gyms And the question is always about macros. I'm like, do you know how to coach someone?

That's where it comes to understanding your client, focusing on the people. I've got one I can say top of my head, I'm not going to say her name, that I can easily give macros to. I've had a transformation with her recently. I'm like, man, because she knows the reason why.

6 months, 12 months?

Yeah, yeah, it took, took a while, but she's been doing training for years, like before she even started here, and then she came with. And that comes back to training history and what they've done in the past with their food and stuff like that. Like, she was like, I've done macros in the past. And I'm like, I'm still gonna start you on a meal plan because I want to build compliance and build that rapport and that relationship. Once I gain that trust and we gain a bit more trust between each other, then I'm going to put you on macros. And then once that happened, it's perfect. But I know there's ones that, like, you can't— you just got to be, okay, here's a meal plan and we're sticking with this because If I give you macros, it's just going to be— if it fits your macros, it's not going to be actually, okay, I want you to have 3 meals of protein in it included, whether that's palm sizes or actual measurements depending on where they're starting off at. It's going to be, I'll go down to KFC and get the single burger and get all this, that. It's not going to work for them.

Discussing this now, I have the perfect answer to your question, which is what, what has changed in probably the 20 years is that I've been able to see all the things that work, even the things that I've disagreed with as to not thinking they would work, but then understand why they work and they go, all right, these are the techniques and tools, and then apply them with principles. That's been probably the biggest thing.

Yeah, no, spot on. I think the— and going back to, I think it was a question, no, I think it was what you said in terms of building that trust with clients. I think you said a couple of minutes ago with him Or like when clients tell you stuff, like, and it's the deepest, darkest stuff that you've ever heard. I think that's important when they come in as well, because that's gonna— like, it's like counseling session of sort, but it's not. You're just hearing what they have to say, and you're just nodding your head and understanding. That has— because they might not have somebody outside of the gym that they can speak to, and I think that's also important for them to have somebody there to support them and actually Okay, yeah, I understand what's going on. I've got plenty of clients like that.

I'll go through—

yeah, you're not alone. Just somebody to put the shoulder around, just be like, okay, I'm going to take you through a training session. Sometimes it might be stressed as hell and it's, all right, we're not going to go through 8x8 or something like that today, say for instance it is an 8x8, um, but I'm not going to take you through that, we're just going to go through something easy. Let's talk, let's start. What do you want to talk about? Um, and that comes back to you. I think the biggest thing out of all of this is why do personal training clients fail is understanding the client. That is the biggest thing.

Ari, it's exactly right. Understand your client and build that relationship from the start, because that relationship is the foundation from which they're going to confide in you. I think one reason a lot of people— some clients will fail is sometimes they may not be telling you the full story. In terms of what they're doing with their, say, nutritional or lifestyle behaviors. And that's really a slippery slope. And if they don't have that relationship— you— relationship with you where they feel like they can ultimately tell you anything, or if they come in here in fear in that if they tell you that they had a blowout on the weekend that you're going to bite their head off, you're not really teaching anything sustainable or healthy, or nothing that's going to, yeah, be sustainable or extended for a period of time. I think the easiest question that a PT can ask the client, but also themselves, relating to any nutritional or training behavior that they try to administer to someone is, do you see yourself doing this in 12 months? And if If they can't say yes to that question, then it's, you likely got some work to do. And if you're honest with yourself and answer that question relating to the client, you're gonna be in for a couple harsh truths.

Beautiful point to close on. Beautiful, gentlemen. I really enjoyed chatting to you both. Great points. I think a lot of folks listening to this really get a lot of great insights into this. If people are wanting to work with you good boys, I imagine there are a lot of people wanting to work with you guys. How can they— where can they reach you and how can they find you?

As always, you can find me at Enterprise or on Instagram at coach.reo.

At Enterprise Fitness or on Instagram at Matt Crooks PT.

And my name is Mark Ottobre. I am the owner and founder of Enterprise Fitness. It has been an absolute pleasure spending this last half hour with you discussing all reasons why personal training clients fail. If you wanna unpack more of our philosophies, systems, methods of how we get the results that we do here at Enterprise Fitness, I highly suggest you check out our book, The Enterprise Diet, which can be found at enterprisediet.com. And if you wanna work with one of our amazing coaches, check out our website, Melbourne Personal Trainers. And as always, we would love for you to subscribe and join the conversation on the weekly. So these podcasts come out weekly, the Enterprise Fitness Podcast. We are on iTunes, We're on YouTube, and by the time you're watching this, we should be on Spotify. So till next time, folks, make sure you subscribe, ring that bell for more notifications, and train hard, eat well, and supplement smart.