S6:E15 - Nutrition Secrets Exposed: Lightning Round Q&A with Mark Ottobre!

Welcome to the show that punches you in the face with information. Welcome to the Enterprise Fitness Podcast. I'm your host, owner and founder, Mark Ottobre. And today I'm joined by two of our fantastic trainers all the way from Ireland, Jason, and all the Frenchman himself, Shane O'Mac. Shane, today we are gonna be going rapid fire nutrition questions with the guys. We thought it'd be a good idea to do it on camera. These guys hungry for knowledge. They've got some great questions. So I know this show's gonna go in all and every which direction. Strap in and enjoy. But before we get into the meat and veg of it, because it's a nutrition episode, meat and veg, haha. Jason, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself for those who haven't seen you in the studio?

Hey guys, my name's Jason. I've been in the fitness industry for about, for about 7, 8 years, and I'm just new on the Enterprise team for about maybe 4 months now. Really excited to be here.

Hi, I'm Shane. I'm from the island of Mauritius. Represent! I speak French, I speak Creole. I've been in the fitness industry for 3 years now, but I've always lived and breathed fitness since I was young. Yeah, and I've been at Enterprise for what, a month now?

Yeah, pretty young. Yeah, pretty young. But what they make up for, what you guys have so much, I was gonna say what you don't have any experience of, say some of the guys who've been here, say James, like almost like 10 years, he's 8 years I think, you guys make up with the enthusiasm. You guys are just awesome questions, seeing you on the floor, seeing you do what you do, and also you just fit our culture like a glove. You're already giving Hemming shit, so big win.

And you're giving me shit as well, it's great, I love it.

All right, so let's get into the nutrition Q&A of what we've got in store for today. Who wants to kick us off? I know you guys did a rock, paper, scissors. Shane?

Yep.

All right, I'll go.

But just before we begin, uh, question: would you rather be skinny with abs or jacked but fat?

You asked me this before. No, you asked me a different one. Would I rather have— would I rather— the one you asked me before was would I rather have big arms or big legs, and my answer to that was big legs. Why? Because if I had, if I have big legs, then I have got my own inner confidence because then I can still squat heavy and deadlift heavy. Whereas if I've got big arms, I know that I'm not really that strong, I just look strong. Really? Because if I have big legs, I know that I'm actually, I've got a big, I've got a strong lower back, strong core, I know that I'm strong and I've got that inner self-confidence which would make me look bigger than I really am because confidence shines. Yeah. So that's my answer for that one, so big legs. But then you asked me would I rather be skinny with abs Or big but fat? Big but fat? Yeah. Like it's a choice. Definitely big but fat. You?

I'd rather be skinny with abs.

Oh, no way. Big but fat.

Big but fat. I'll take that.

Yeah, really? Definitely.

100%.

What about inflammation?

Yeah, but what kind of big?

Yeah, we're talking like strong. When you say big but fat, I'm like strongman big, right?

Right. With a big belly and stuff.

Yeah, if you're Eddie Hall, who really cares?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's trimmed down now, so he's all right.

Yeah, I know, exactly. So you always have the option if you're big but fat, you always have the option of trimming down. Yeah. So it's harder to build muscle.

You could argue the same thing with skinny, right?

It takes a little bit of time to build muscle, but that's my personal preference.

What feels heavier, 20 kilos of rubber or metal plate?

So you're saying like the rubber plates, the rubber plates or the powerlifting plates feel heavier? For sure the powerlifting plates feel heavier because there's there's less of it. Yeah, it's a smaller— like, it's a small— it's more compact, but it's the same when it's on the bar. But when you're holding the plate, because it's more compact, it feels heavier because it's a smaller disc. But okay, I like to use the Eleiko calibrated powerlifting plates for most things because they're calibrated. Okay, so when you pick up 25 kilos, it's exactly 25 kilos because that's what they're using in competition. If you went to go break a record, you'd be probably using Eleiko plates, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, cool. Yeah, Jason.

Yeah, okay, I'll ask the first nutrition question then. Yeah, so what are your thoughts on meal timing for body composition?

That's a really good question. Meal timing for body composition. Look, what has been shown is that you can achieve your results in a number of different splits, whether it's 2 meals, 3 meals, 4 meals, 5 meals. So in the scheme of things, so long as you're equating for protein and equating for calories, where does it lie in terms of the hierarchy of importance and do you need to do it? I would say it becomes more relevant as a, how do you say, the psychology aspect of getting someone to stick to their nutrition and fit in with their lifestyle. Because certainly you can have results any which way. I do prefer having feedings from the perspective of protein assimilation, more smaller and regular feeds. Although there is evidence to show that you can have bigger feeds and that also optimizes, because if you're having more space, it's one of those things you're still going to have over the, this, over the course of the day, you're still going to have the same insulin response and protein synthesis. It's just if you— the body's always chasing homeostasis and that hormetic adaptation in the sense that it's always— if you undercompensate somewhere, it's going to overcompensate somewhere else. If you're steady consistently— so I think the biggest thing I would say for meal timing is that you get super consistent. So if you're going to do 3 meals, you, you stick to 3 meals for a period of time. If you're going to do 5 meals, you stick to 5 meals rather than do a week at 5 meals, a week at 3 meals, a week at 4 meals, I would stick to something, get your body, because that's the other thing about transit time as well, is it loves routine, it loves rhythm. So if you're constantly eating in the middle, this is why I don't like snacking. If you're eating in the middle of meals and just eating at random times, I'm a big believer, more so than meal timing, I'm a huge advocate of routine and setting up structure around people's diet. And then the question is, is it better to do 3, 4, 5, 6? And I don't think there's— that's as relevant as setting up an initial structure of this is how many days, this is how many times you eat. And then again, making sure that you equate for protein, making sure you equate for calories. Those two things for sure are going to have a big impact on your body composition. How you split that, much less. The only other caveat I'd say to that is if you do train very hard, you would be looking at— because weight training is an anaerobic exercise, right? Like, you're going to get yourself into, into a hole, like you're going to use up energy. So making sure that you are fueling your workouts and not light-headed in the middle of a set. So perhaps there's going to be peri-workout nutrition, like pre-carbs, post-carbs, pre-carbs, intra-carbs, post-carbs. So that's where your— as long as your nutrition and meal timing is supporting your workouts, then I don't really see how you structure that as, as much of an issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Question: while we're on meal frequency, is there such a thing as too many meals per day?

You can always take things to the extreme, right? Well, like 10 meals? Yeah, I think depends what they constitute as meals, right? I think probably the dumbest diet that I've done ever— actually haven't shared this story on the podcast because it's so dumb— but before I competed at the Victorian show in 2005, I got this diet off a guy who was a former Mr. Australia. But basically the diet was— no, it was 45 eggs a day That was all you ate. Raw? Well, no, you didn't eat them raw. So you put 45 eggs into a pan, so you made like a massive omelette, quiche almost, right? So it's like 45 eggs, or actually only 5 yolks, so it's 5 yolks, 40 egg whites, chop up a heap of vegetables in it and chop that up into 8 pieces, and there we ate meals every day. And I did that for 2 weeks.

So that was a protein intake? But what about the carbs?

That was it.

That was it.

I was like 600, 700 calories.

That's an easy meal prep though.

It was very hard, 2 weeks, tell you that much, right? Surprisingly, I didn't look that bad, right? Like I didn't look too bad. I didn't flatten out as much as I thought I would. I did push, I felt like crap every day and trying to train and all the rest of it. Yeah. That was hard. I think the thing is in terms of meal, it's like why? And I've done the whole thing like when I was younger in my teens, eating up, eating in the middle of the night kind of thing to try and—

The metabolism.

Sorry? Stoke the metabolism.

Yeah, stoke the metabolism, get more protein in, get more food in.

Protein. Oh, that's just silly, right? It's all like bro science and silly stuff, which I did when I was hardcore, because I went hardcore on bodybuilding, right? It was— that's what you did. I just don't think— I think it's not a big rock, it's a little pebble at best. And the routine aspect of it is what you need. And can you eat 2 meals? Yeah, certainly you can. Upset—

anything—

thing that you want to ask is what's best for your digestion. And digestion is somewhat measurable in the sense that Do you poop regularly? And how is your poop? Do you pass it? Do you have a lot of stools? Like a lot of bodybuilders, they fart like troopers and they can't stop farting. Dude, that's not normal. You're eating too much protein or you're having too much fiber. There's something wrong with your nutrition because healthy people look good, but there's a lot of people who look good that aren't healthy. In that case, I would say certainly you want to use the feedback of what is actually happening digestively in your workouts, how you feel because who wants to go to the gym and be farting the whole time? Who wants to go anywhere and be farting? That's not comfortable for the person, it's not comfortable with people around you, but it's an indicative— an indicator to say that something that you're doing in a nutrition plan is not working. Like you're pushing this too much and your body's now rejecting it. I think the answers around these things, how many meals to eat, how many meals not to eat, I think there is nuance depending on the person, for example, and what causes digestive distress. But I think stopping and getting that biofeedback of what is happening for you tells a lot more. I know I'm usually optimal about 5, not, it's not really 5 meals. Like I have what, 3 proper meals and 2 of them a shake and a dessert, which is like berries and nut butter. I wouldn't really call that last meal a meal because all I'm eating is berries and nut butter. It's like kind of an after dinner kind of dessert replacing the shake that I was having, right? And one of them's a shake. So I have 3 proper meals. I know that, that's good for me, right? That I'm happy, I'm not hungry, I don't have gas, digestion is good, bowel movements are good. Now that's not going to work for everyone. Some people may get real, they may crash and they need to eat more regularly. Others, they might be good with 3 meals. So there isn't a— I think people want a hard answer to that, and the truth is like it's biofeedback. That's what's going to give you the answer. Yeah, yeah. Jason.

Yeah, perfect. Just on that note as well. So we're talking about meal timing and stuff. What's your opinion on calorie timing?

Calorie timing?

Calorie timing. So we work out and let's say our anabolic window stays open for a day or two. Would you distribute your calorie, the majority of your calories after your workout and even into the next day? Or would you even bother with that?

Yeah, so this really is another interesting question because if you look at that Mario De Pasquale, He wrote The Anabolic Window, and he's a very smart guy, and probably he's a bit older. He's like '90s, 2000s. He's a bit older now. I think he's in his 60s, 70s, and he was friends with my mentor Charles Poliquin. Anyway, the guy published a lot of fascinating stuff, and one of the things was debunking the anabolic window. And he showed that— and number one, he pointed out that the anabolic window, people conflated it and showed that it's all related to glucose. So you definitely can increase the amount of glucose that you uptake after training. That's true. So if the goal is to refuel the glycogen inside the muscle, then ideally, yeah, you are going to do that after the workout because you're going to be more sensitive. Insulin is more sensitive, the glucose receptor cells are more sensitive to uptake glucose and carbohydrate. So that's true, but that doesn't mean the anabolic window, or you're going to synthesize more protein directly straight after. So what he found in his research was that the window, as you said, stays open for actually days, and you can actually increase the amount of overall nutrients that you're taking. It's interesting, I will say, from— that's looking at research and saying, where does this come from? There's endurance athletes, which it was originally based on, and then there's bodybuilders who want to perform. I think then you just also have to use principle-first-based thinking. In the sense that if I do want to put on size, there are only so many hours in a day that I can eat. And if I eat a big meal— I just ate before this podcast— I'm probably not going to want to eat until 6 o'clock, 5 o'clock, like 7 o'clock, right? I've just eaten. If I'm purposely not eating to keep a window open, then I might not hit my calories at all for that day, which then means I'm not going to put on size. So I think you need to have a pragmatic approach to things because it's not just Like when you say most people who are trying to put on size, they're just not eating enough, enough of the good food, like equating for that protein goal, because protein is hella filling, right? I think from that perspective, timing calories, do you want to have a little bit more post-workout? I think overall my conclusion is yes, the answer is yes. I think your body does distribute it better, and also just common sense would tell you you're able to refuel, recover faster. Hit into the parasympathetic mode, rest and digest. It makes sense, like everything makes sense to eat straight after a workout or eat close to after workout to get you back into recovery mode so you can optimize for the next workout. I don't know if that answers your question though.

No, it does.

Yeah, yeah, I don't really put too much credence onto it other than making it fit a lifestyle. And yes, if I'm working with a competitor, say Shane, who do everything to the absolute detail, yeah, for sure he's gonna have a bigger carb meal after that workout, but not because I'm trying to time calories, but because the other factors of what it does to the nervous system. If I give him more carbs, it's gonna induce rest and digest, more carbs is gonna help— He's gonna feel lethargic. So he's gonna relax, it's gonna lower cortisol, it's probably the big one, it's gonna help lower cortisol 'cause it's gonna increase insulin. So those things, anabolic, and that's what I'm wanting to do after a workout. So it's not, I'm just trying to give you calories after workout for calorie's sake, but it's the flow-on effects as well And you do, I find personally people do recover better and I recover better by having more food after. I feel better. If that's a guide for nothing else, if I feel better then I'm gonna train harder, right?

Yeah.

Shaino.

Yep.

Quick question. When I was reading the Enterprise Diet, I saw that you wrote an empty calorie. So my question is, what is an empty calorie? That's defined as—

For those who don't speak French. He said empty calorie, not anti-calorie.

It wasn't that bad.

To be honest, man, I didn't know what the hell you're talking about.

Lucky I knew what he meant. He said empty calorie. So what I'm referring to as an empty calorie is imagine going— you've, I'm guessing you've, what is it, cupboards at home, right? Yeah. Yeah, so if you have cupboards at home, imagine getting like big boxes, like those boxes that we have there that come for our supplements, right? And just filling up your cupboards with empty boxes. Okay. All right, you've got a cupboard and say this is your house or your body and you're filling up with empty boxes that— my chair— that don't really— they can hold things but there's nothing in them. That's what I mean by empty calorie in the sense that there's no nutrients associated with that calorie. An empty calorie, for example, would be a donut or sugar. For example, you could have sugar, there's no nutrients in sugar, it's empty. Or you could have the same calorie, say, from salmon and you're getting protein, you're getting fatty acids, you're getting a whole plethora of nutrients. You can have vegetables, you get a whole plethora of nutrients, fruits, potato, any, any other sugar is empty in the sense. So junk food like Coca-Cola, you look at say 100 grams of Coca-Cola or 100 calories of Coca-Cola versus 100 calories of steak, 100 calories of Coca-Cola doesn't have anywhere near, doesn't have any of the nutrients that say 100 grams of steak would have. So that's what I mean by empty calories. Imagine going on a, the concept that I wrote very early in my career was about calorie budgeting. So if you're on a budget and you earn, say, $100 a week, the first thing you're going to buy is not designer jeans, right? Designer jeans is the last thing that you're going to buy. For $100, you're going to budget, you're going to buy food because that's— you need to be on a budget because you're going to get a lot more from your food. So in this case, you can equate it to designer jeans would be the empty calorie here. It's not an essential thing. That's what I mean by empty calories. Does that answer your question?

So if I try to actively listen, is that sugar without the nutrients that it brings is empty. And you could, you could say the same thing for fats. If you're eating a very fatty thing but it doesn't have much macro— sorry, micronutrients, micronutrients, then it's empty.

Yeah, so if you compare, say, margarine to butter, so margarine is empty compared to butter, which has your vitamin A, D, K, E, or your fats, a much better array of fats. The only way margarine, by the way, has fat-soluble vitamins is if they fortify it. If they don't fortify it, it doesn't have it in it. So It's a good example. If you compared butter, 100 calories of butter to 100 calories of margarine, there is 1,000 times more nutrients in that butter than there is in margarine. So you're definitely better off having 100 calories of butter over margarine every day of the week. Yeah.

Right.

So I think where the industry eats itself is the whole thing of a calorie is a calorie or a calorie is not a calorie.

If it fits your macro.

Yeah, if it fits your macro. 'Cause I think, and I do talk about this in my book too, when I, this section around, I think it's what, chapter 3. Where I talk about the researchers and scientists versus coaches and practitioners. And what I say in it basically is your scientist is always asking why something works, and your practitioner, he just wants to know, and your coach just wants to know what works and how. It doesn't really care why so much it works. So if something works, it works, and everyone's happy, right? But science will always have questions as to why something works. And I think sometimes the danger is coaches overdo their advice, let's say for example eliminate all carbohydrates, yes, you're going to have results on that, but then science will quickly point out that you don't need to eliminate carbohydrates to get a result. The reason why people get the result is because they're on a calorie deficit, right? So it's being able to sort those things out. But my point is, with the empty calorie statement, when you say empty calorie to a scientist, their immediate response will be, but a calorie is a calorie. And that's true, but that's not what I'm saying. Right, it's like a kilometer is a kilometer, yes, but a kilometer in the wrong direction isn't going to get you any further towards your goal. Yes, a kilometer is a kilometer, but that's not what I'm saying in that context. In the context saying a calorie is not a calorie, a calorie is not a calorie in the sense that one has nutrients associated with it, one doesn't. It's a unit of measurement. I think that's where people nitpick, and they nitpick because it's trendy on social media. But if you just use a little bit of common sense, you can understand the fact that a calorie isn't a calorie. If you understand what I'm saying, you can take it as, oh, it's just a unit of measurement. But is that really what the person and the intent of what someone is saying? When I say it, no, I'm not talking about, say, a unit of measurement. I'm talking about how to budget people's food better and search for foods that are nutrient-dense as a way to implement better advice so people are able to live better lives or have better nutrition so they get better results. Right.

Shane?

You were close.

Use this side. It's close, we're gonna move one another.

Just so since we're talking about if it fits your macros, I want to talk about basically macro ratios. Does it really matter if you have, say, 30% of your calories come from protein, say 20% or 40% from fats, and then the rest then from carbohydrates? If you're getting enough, does it actually matter if those macros are different?

Yes, it does matter because it will affect how people feel in their body composition. The first thing you need to equate for is protein. Protein across the board will definitely impact body composition and, and how much muscle. What's been shown muscle loss, I think it's once you start getting below that like 20% of someone's diet. Now that's not saying someone's training, that's just if you get below that, uh, 20% of someone's diet, or they generally will start to lose muscle mass and body composition will be affected. If you are someone who wants to grow muscle and maintain, then you're probably looking around at least 33% of your diet at kind of a minimum. You base it off your body weight times anywhere from like 1.6, generally accepted, to around like 2.6. You can go as high as 3 if calories are really low to maintain lean muscle mass. And there's also studies that show 4 times body weight and with no harm, no effect, so long as you don't have any pre-existing kidney issue. But if you're healthy, it's fine to go that high. But generally what I would use for most people is around 2 to 2.5. 2 to 2.4 generally. Once you set that calorie, and that's gonna be dependent upon obviously how much you train, how hard you train, how big you wanna get, personal preference for food as well. And then also carbohydrates. Carbohydrates, protein sparing. How much, and also then what type of activity are you doing? If you're training with weights, you will be, I would say most people training with weights will be using a higher carb approach because that's anaerobic exercise. Where does keto come in? Keto is actually pretty good for endurance athletes. Believe it or not. There's a lot of research shows that, and also it makes sense because you just consume more food. It's not to say you're going to go absence of carbs, but there's a lot of very successful endurance athletes that have gone keto— or not keto, just higher fat, not strict keto, but higher fat— that, that's been— that has worked for them. And obviously that's, it's something that you don't have to do it that way. The keto aspect of someone's diet, where I'd recommend keto, is if you have epilepsy. There's actually a lot of research to show that epilepsy is, it's not an intolerance, but when it comes to pathways, there's an inhibited pathway in the brain of glucose. I can't remember where it is, but basically that essentially induces seizures. So there is a lot of research that shows that if you're epileptic and you have seizures, keto diet's definitely the way to go. That's where I'd apply keto diet pretty much exclusively. Oh, actually, the only other time I'd apply keto diet is if you have a dysbiosis or overgrowth of bad gut bacteria, which would then be applied temporarily to then— and then you'd also have to go treatment at the same time of killing the bad bacteria and re-flourishing the good. And that the reason for that is because bacteria grows on glucose and sugar, so you need to starve the bacteria to kill it off so it doesn't proliferate. So they're really the only times that I like keto. There are obviously people who find it as a preference, but The reason why I say that, I should preference with this, if you just look from a biological point of view, a biology point of view, one molecule of ATP equals— sorry, one unit of glucose equals 32 to 36 units of ATP. So it is the preferred energy source of the body for that reason. You're just going to make a whole bunch more ATP from glucose than you are from fat, which is inefficient in a sense. So that's why it's— that's why I say if you're weight training especially around your weight training, you want to make sure you have your carbs. And even guys who are like cyclic keto and they do these kind of things, or who might have their percentage of fat higher and their carbs lower, they're still timing their carbs around, or they will time their carbs around their workout for the fact that they aren't able to train and get a pump and all these other things if carbs are too low. To answer the question directly, you need to equate for calories for sure. You need to— and some people find it easier by having higher fat because they just simply, they just get satiated. But If body composition is the goal, you need to factor the protein. Protein comes from the Greek word prime importance, or proteus, which means prime importance. So you need to factor in protein first, and then how you make up the fats and carbs can be personal preference. Personally, I like a kind of a mid-split, like an iso split. It's like 33, 33, 33. Most people do well like that, but you also get people who need super high carb diet diet or a slightly higher fat diet, then also can be seasonal as well for people.

Yep, perfect.

Shana?

Yes, I love my Asian food, and so my question is, what are your thoughts on MSG?

What is it? Monosodium glutamate. So it's been like, it's been highly contested. I haven't looked at it for years, but it's been pretty highly contested as to its role. My understanding last time I looked at it, because I didn't actually write about this in the book at all, so I didn't really get into it much, but they use it as a food additive to make it more addictive most of the time. Monosodium glutamate is a pathway in the brain, and it can, when overstimulated, can create, I believe, more of a dope or alert kind of excitatory addictive kind— not addiction is the wrong word, but you want more of it, right? It creates that effect, almost like dopamine hit. Obviously, in terms of food, I believe it's one of the additives they make to make food more moreish. So people say, for example, if you're having like potato chips or something like this, food manufacturers may add that in to make the food a bit more delicious, a bit more robust, and have a bit more flavor. But then it also has the thing in the brain because the monosodium glutamate pathway is neural stimulating and can be neural excitatory, which, yes, —my question is, would you use that as pre-workout then? —Well, no, 'cause it's not sodium. No, I'd use sodium. No, I would use, you could use bicarbs pre-workout. I would use electrolytes. In your body, definitely not. I definitely wouldn't.

—You mentioned the pathway in the brain makes you feel more excited, so that's my—

—I don't know enough about that to really comment to say, but I would use caffeine. I wouldn't be using monosodium. It's not in a good way, in a sense, monosodium glutamate, not in a good way. It can stimulate, my understanding is stimulate pathways too much that it essentially causes them to die off, become desensitized, which is what you don't want. So yeah, it's not like a pre-workout that's good. No, pre-workout I would use electrolytes. The KTS solutions I think are the best electrolytes on the market because of the fact that they're formulated with a 1:1.6 ratio of sodium potassium, which is what you'd find in the human body. So Mark Schaus, who formulated, he also added Bicarbs is very good because obviously weight training is going to cause acidity and the bicarbs help you become more alkaline, which means that if you are more alkaline going into a set, you should be able to get out more reps because the acid is usually where people stop that drop-off. And if you can keep— that's where like bicarbs before a workout can actually be good to switch you into a bit more being a bit more alkaline, although you don't want to have it too late at night because you do want to be slightly acidic going to bed. But anyway, that's, yeah, probably a lot more than you're talking about. So yeah, I would avoid it. I wouldn't be recommending it to people, but I think if you went out for Asian food and it was in it, I wouldn't like stress either, so long as 95% of what you're doing is on track. If it's like your one meal a week is Asian food and has MSG in it, I wouldn't like— So you wouldn't add it to your own food? No, I definitely wouldn't add it to my own food as a regular. No way. Yeah, I just stick to Celtic sea salt, because Celtic sea salt's what, 70% sodium chloride and then 30% other minerals. That's the gray salt, not pink Himalayan salt, Celtic sea salt. It's a wet gray salt. And because of the fact that the 30% has your trace minerals, and most people, most people like lithium, for example, most people aren't thinking how much lithium do they get. They don't think about it. But if you're low in lithium, can be a cause of depression, right? And there's a lot of— Sorry, your battery is low. That's true too. I think Apple and Samsung are mining all the world's lithium for everyone, but that's a story. And Tesla as well. That's a story for another day. But the, the point being, I would look at Celtic sea salt because it has trace minerals. So I mean, if you're going to salt your food, you might as well get your trace minerals in as well as the sodium, potassium, and everything else. So that would be my preferred. I wouldn't be adding something like MSG every day because again, anything— I think it's one of those things that there's conjecture around it But the real conjecture— is it bad? I think the answer is yes. The conjecture is how much. Now, that's anything neural is going to be dose dependent, obviously. And how much is too— you could have a little bit and someone else could— I could have— I'm just going to say a small pinch and it could be too much for me. You could have 5 grams and it's fine. You could have it every day. That, that's— everyone's going to have a slightly different limit, right? So I think, yeah, I think there is That, that's what the question is, how much for each individual, but by and large it would be something I would avoid. And yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. And there may be other things on that, I don't know. Again, it's not something I've looked at super closely, but that's my understanding of it as of, as of today asking the question. Yep, yep, yeah. So maybe next podcast. Yeah, maybe next podcast. Jason?

Yeah, so you've mentioned a lot of supplements there. Have you got any supplements that you would recommend to everyone for maximum health?

Electrolytes. Just electrolytes? And obviously depending how they're formulated. So there's a lot of brands on the market, but my number one supplement, which I don't even classify as a supplement anymore, is electrolytes. KTS Solutions, shout out to Mark Schaus, who formulated my friend in the States. Sodium chloride, potassium, magnesium, and you put the bicarbs in it as well. Everyone talks about the cardiovascular system, the respiratory system, the nervous system. One thing that always fails, people don't talk about the electrical system, and that's where everything basically sends signals to each other, which then does have a massive impact on your nervous system as well. Most people are dehydrated. Most people who have the electrolytes for the first time say they taste really salty. It's because they're deficient. If you look at, say for example, adrenal health, people with adrenal health usually don't have enough sodium. Fixing someone's sodium can also help them with stress. Most people are highly wired and stressed. For me, the electrolytes, the way he formulated them was, as I said before, that 1 to 1.6 or 7 ratio of the human body. No sugar, nothing added. It's a great supplement. So that's always my first. My second, usually magnesium. I don't use it exclusively as a sleep supplement, although if someone does struggle with sleep, I'll definitely go to the Designs for Health Night Powder because it's got the 3 types of magnesium as well as the precursor to melatonin. What is it, California poppy? I think they've got in there, which works really well and helps people sleep. So you get a double whammy. Look, fish oil for most folks, because look, I don't supplement with fish oil. I do and I don't. I sometimes supplement with it, but it's not something I'm always taking. But for a lot of people who have a whole lot of inflammation or eating kind of a SAD diet, the standard Australian diet, fish oil is great because the standard diet is a 1— this is more like kind of mainstream advice rather than athletic advice, if that makes sense. But the, the standard Australian diet or American diet, Western diet, has a 1:17 ratio of omega-3 to omega-6. So it's highly inflammatory basically. So having more omega-3 helps sequester some of that inflammation, helps drive and flip that ratio more favorably into what researchers have found, which is the 1:4 ratio of omega-3 to omega-6. So you do want pro-inflammatory fats, it's just the question is how much, and it's around 1:4. Most people have way too much pro-inflammatory fats, so fish oil would definitely be on my list. Magnesium, electrolytes, magnesium, fish oil, probably the other one would be protein powder. And the reason is because most people don't eat enough protein. Yeah, and it's not even really a supplement, it's a food, it's a macronutrient. So I'd be looking at getting enough protein for most people because that's going to have crossover to a lot of things. So my supplement recommendations are pretty simple, but elite is doing the simple things and basic things well and constant. And once you've done, then you see what it is for you that's holding you back, and that's when you can add things. Is it adrenal function? Is it nervous? Do you want a nervous system? Is it Is it cognition? Is it recovery? Because then you go down different paths of what you would support individually for those things. Alrighty guys, we're almost at time, so maybe one more question each and then we'll get into the—

Yeah, I have a question. Since we are on salt, let's say someone goes to a restaurant and after finishing eating he says that he's super thirsty. So would that be a good thing that he's feeling thirsty, that he could drink more water to feel more—

You're talking about yourself? You're asking for a friend? I think I'm asking coming from my country, Yeah.

Yes, because for us, like, a lot of people have hypertension, and every time we go to the restaurant and coming out of the restaurant, like, oh, this— the food was very salty, and now you're gonna have hypertension.

And yeah, so what are your thoughts?

Would that be a good thing? So that would encourage them to drink more water?

I really have a strong opinion because I'm not— I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't— I don't know enough about it. So, um, look, I mean, if you— in general, if you're drinking high-quality water that's a good thing, but maybe lay off how many times you go out a week to eat. That's what I would say. Don't eat foods that's so salty. If you're going out every night and eating super salty foods then, and you're having hypertension, that's the writing's on the wall, yeah.

What if you don't have hypertension?

And you're going out and eating? So you are talking about you, asking for yourself. Just drink your water, right?

Jason. Yeah, just off his question there, um, what would you do if someone was— or what would you do if you were in a position where you had to go out for, say, 3 to 4 or 5 business dinners every week. How would you fit, work that into your fitness regime?

Yeah, definitely abstaining from, if this was a client, abstaining from alcohol.

Alcohol or just dinners in general?

Yeah, so well, number one would be definitely abstaining because a lot of people when they go out for business things, they drink with the meal and that's where the hidden calories obviously come from. But then when you're having alcohol as well, that's where your decision-making ability goes down. It's, do you want dessert? Yeah, I will have dessert. That there, I would put a pretty hard and fast rule. Which would be abstain from alcohol. If this is part of your routine, then when you go out, you don't have a glass of wine with dinner because one glass of wine can very easily turn into two and two can turn into a bottle. Hard and fast rule: abstain from alcohol if business dinners is part of it. The second thing is you can generally, wherever you go, you can order meat. Get your steak. Or if you can control where you go, I'd be going to steak places. And whether I order steak or fish or chicken, that's what I'd— that would be my prime. And I'd be asking them even if it's not on the menu, can I have? And I would be, you know, equating my protein. So I know for me it's 200-250 grams of steak is what would be my like average meal. Like if I go out for dinner, then I'll have a 350-gram steak, but that's not every day. But if I was doing it every day, then I'm definitely going to be asking for a smaller steak, or I'm not even going to be getting steak, I'm going to be getting fish or chicken. So I'm going to be getting a good serving of protein, and then I'm going to be asking, can I have vegetables with it and some form of carb? And that carb is usually going to be potato. And that would be my dinner. No entree, no dessert. Give me my protein, give me my vegetables, which could be again steak place, you can have salad, you can have vegetables. Give me my carb serving, which would either be rice or potatoes. Generally the steak place is going to be potatoes, and that would be my meal. And that's what I would just copy and paste. And when I've gone around traveling, that generally is what I gravitate towards is steak places and That is almost exactly what, what I order to, to manage those things. Yeah, cool. Perfect, gentlemen. It's been lovely having you both rapid fire with questions. I hope you've all enjoyed this nutrition podcast. Shaino, where can people hear more and learn more about you?

I'm on Instagram, @shainfitness, but the A is an 8 because you're a skater.

Correct.

So I'm a skater, so my Instagram for my skating is @shanesoskate.

And Jason? I'm also on Instagram, of course, @jasonmasseypt. You can find me there.

Nice. Where can people buy the book if they want to know more? They can buy it at Enterprise Diet. So if you're in Australia, you can buy it at enterprisediet.com. Actually, anywhere international, enterprisediet.com, and you can place your order there. It is on Kindle, so you can go on Amazon and buy it on Kindle, and it is going to be— probably by the time you watch this, it will be on paperback. And then the other place it will be on Kindle is, and you can order the paperback paperback on Kindle as well very, very soon. Probably by the time you watch this, it'll be on paperback, and the audio will come eventually. Is it with your voice? It will be with my voice, but I have no idea when it's coming out because it's going to be an awful lot of work. I've got to adapt the whole text to talk it. And obviously we stock them here at Enterprise Fitness, and we stock them here. So you can come into the studio if you're in Melbourne, come to the studio, I'll give you a signed copy. And, uh, signed copy. And my name is Mark Ottobre, I'm the owner and founder of Enterprise Fitness. Hope you've enjoyed this podcast. Make sure you subscribe to us, and if you could do me a favor if you could leave a review. It helps so much to get these podcasts heard and seen and recommended by— and even if you introduce one person to it, it'd really help, and also help the person that you're recommending it to get in shape and get the right answers and get them on track. Until next time, folks, eat well, train hard, and supplement smart.