S6:E7 - Unlock Your Full Potential: Ways to Maximise Results and Negotiate Time | The Wolfs Den Podcast

Welcome back to another episode of The Wolf's Den. My name is not Mark Ottobre, my name is James Kelly, General Manager of Enterprise Fitness, and I will be doing a takeover of the next 2 episodes while Mark is away. And joining me today we have Tyrone Folino, Enterprise Master Coach, and Matt Crooks, Enterprise Senior Coach, who has had his first call-up to the podcast. And today we are going to be discussing ways to maximize your results.

Are we not here talking about the Champions League final? Oh, wrong podcast. So tell me, ways to maximize your results. We're looking at time, we're looking at things like structuring your routine, and just what do you find the best ways you get your clients to maximize results, Matty, apart from being here with you?

I think first of all, sort of understanding the client and what their background is, where they're coming from to start off with. So Obviously here we do a session one, understanding their client. More you understand the client and how they go through their day-to-day life, what their stresses are like outside of the gym, etc., and stuff like that, that's going to be the most important thing. Because realistically, you look at it, if they're not doing their recovery right, so they're not recovering well and they're living stressful lives, then obviously they're going to be things that are going to impact your overall performance in the gym and therefore your results. So So your body composition, essentially.

Yeah, for sure. The biggest thing to reiterate in, in this episode we're doing today is we are really talking about how to maximize those results. So what we want to look at today is when somebody says they're all in and they want to get the best outcome they possibly can, what are the things that we're really trying to focus on to achieve that? And we understand as coaches that's not going to be 100% of the time where people are able to commit everything to achieving the best goals that they possibly can. So with that being said, I suppose the biggest thing first and foremost is the time aspect and the commitment to actually putting training, nutrition, all the things associated with getting really good results as one of the highest priorities and the highest values. Would you say that's probably a good—

I think you gotta break it up. I think the time aspect, you need to break it up. Into two different things. Okay, how much time can you allocate to your training per week? That is a one aspect. And how much time, if any, can you allocate to either meal prep or nutrition? And when it comes to meal prep and nutrition, as we all harp on, and as a big thing that Mark has taught us, is that you either got enough time to do your own meal prep, or you've got enough money to get someone else to do it for you. And that's what it comes down to. If you can't allocate time to do your own meal prep then you need to find someone else to do it for you. But I think you looking at it and breaking the week down and going, okay, there's 168 hours in the week, how many hours can I allocate out of that to training, right? And then actually making it and booking into schedule, I think is very important, whether that be your 1, 2, 3 hours with your coach, and then how many hours do you need on your own. And I think that begs the questions like, okay, what's the minimum that someone's going to need? Obviously you can get great results off 4 and 5 times a week. Generally, generally don't need that 6, 6 or 7 days. You need to recover as well. But what's the minimum and what's the maximum, and where can we meet in the middle? And that's going to obviously come down with your coach, and it's going to be person dependent. But I think, yeah, definitely time is, is going to be that big one. And just really scheduling, I think, yeah, using a calendar and scheduling is the most important thing.

So I think one of the things that I take from what you've just said is really having a solid structure before you get started almost. So obviously we know that the components of training and nutrition are a massive part of getting that result, but then creating a structure that works for the individual around their schedule is going to be the key component to that long-term success and getting the maximal outcome that we're looking for.

Yeah, 100%, 100%. And that's just— it's almost, you know, signing a contract with yourself and your new coach going, I can allocate this much time and let's make this work. That might only be 3 hours of training a week. It's okay, I can only allocate 3 hours of training a week in order to keep my recovery and my nutrition on point as well. Let's— what can we do with that? And that's where your coach will go, okay, let's— we'll work with it. And it's just having that conversation and just getting it, laying it out on the table first and foremost, and then just making that commitment.

Yeah, and on that, sometimes it might be starting with the basics. Just get the basics right to start off with. Sometimes I think You know, people love— and this is the same thing as I said before, starting with that session 1. People live a hectic life, busy life, especially we have a lot of people here that come in, big CEOs and stuff like that. Just starting sometimes with the basics and getting those right, understanding the fundamentals of why you're consuming each of these macronutrients, etc., and stuff like that. And then setting that foundation then can lead on to more from that as well.

Yeah, 100%. I think what Maddie said is, uh, is spot on, to be honest. I think people think it's a lot more complicated than it actually is. Yes, when you get into the nitty-gritty and the scientific aspect of putting a training program together or putting a nutrition plan together, it can get a bit— yeah, a bit sciencey. But I think when we really strip it back, it's actually very basic things that really get the best outcome. And I think a lot of people think it's a lot more complicated when actually it's a lot of the very simple things that they're not doing to the best of their ability that is going to get them the best outcome long term.

Yeah, yeah. And you're right, the basics are just getting nutrition on point. What— and nutrition on point for one person compared to another can be completely different things. One person will be like, nutrition on point for us is every meal on point, weighed, measured, bang. Whereas nutrition on point—

Speak for yourself.

Stefan might be listening, so I gotta say that. Whereas a CEO or a mum of 3, it might be just getting, you know, a mum of 3 comes in and getting her nutrition on point is, okay, we just need to eat, need to get you eating 3 full meals a day and with some protein, some fats, and carbs. If we can start there then that's the beginning of— and that's maximizing your results now. So that's— and that's where it's going to be person-dependent. It's like, it doesn't need to be perfect. And perfect is what you and I and us would look at in terms of our meals. Perfect needs to be perfect for you at this point in time because that's going to maximize your results right now.

And it's making that small change, right? Like what you said before, like that mum with 3 kids might be coming in, divorced, whatever. 3 kids and coming in with— but coming in with obviously high expectations. And obviously she's probably got all these goals that she wants to achieve for certain reasons, but just starting with basics of that small change of making sure that she's consuming— okay, you've got your protein, your fats, you've got your carbs, you've got your veggies in there, perfect. Just starting with that, just not even measuring, just get those— forget numbers, get those things right. Can make a massive change from as well.

Do you think people's perceptions of maximizing what they're doing is guided somewhat by social media these days as well? Some people might see what such and such an influencer is doing on social media and try and replicate that. When we break it down as a coaching goal, this doesn't actually work for your schedule and what you do and your stresses and your challenges in life. You just possibly can't fit that same structure that this person has into your day? Like, it's hitting that round peg into a square hole, like it's just not going to happen.

Yeah, I think first influencing— you like that analogy?

Yeah, it's not a podcast about the chair going.

I think first is, first thing is like just informing them that, you know, half that stuff just don't happen on— there's a camera there and there's a ring light deliberately set up in that order to make it look like That's what this person, this influencer, is doing on a day-to-day basis.

It's like Matty when he makes his chili con carne, but then he's actually just eating burgers.

I've never seen him— I've never seen you actually bring that in. Have you ever actually made—

I made those homemade burgers for that one video, and I'm not making it.

What was your Uber Eats bill for the month, Matty?

Oh, that's quite high, to be fair. I don't know, I send it to Mark Ottobre.

But I think that's the first thing. And yeah, it is heavily governed by what people want and what people people think they can do. So much governed by social media these days. And if it's not social media, back when you and I first started, it was magazines. It's like, how many past clients have we had through here that have been on the fitness magazines? I want to look like that. Yeah, we can get there, but you're not going to look like that all the time around. So yeah, you might be able to have a day with that influencer where you can get all this done, but you got 3 kids and you work and they don't. Like, you might have 1 out of 6 days like that. Let's be realistic.

Yeah, and this is the client that I'm talking about, that 60 years old, wants to get super lean, like photos behind me. And it's like, man, do you want your libido to be working? Like those type of things.

Like, it's the sacrifice.

It's a sacrifice, man. And like your stuff on Instagram, I mean, it all started probably on YouTube, YouTube to like your other social media profiles, like your platforms. So like your Instagrams and your Facebook and whatnot and stuff like that. And I used— it's just every single detail that people try to look at and be like, I have to be like that. And it's like, no, you don't have to be like that. Think about their sort of life and then your life. Like, especially with Instagram influencers that probably haven't got kids and stuff like that, and they're just, okay, sweet, I can wake up whatever time in the morning, this is my morning routine, this is this. And it's not— it's not the same for a person that's got 2 or 3 kids, fighting a divorce or something like that once again, and got other things and working a 9-to-5 job.

Actually, I don't know if I can actually think of any influencers off top of my head that have kids.

Yeah, that's a fair point.

I can probably think of one that we all know. But that's about it.

I don't know who you're thinking about.

Yeah, I've got one.

Oh, maybe I do know who you're thinking about, actually. I think I sent you a video of him yesterday, if it's the same person.

But, but, oh, hold on. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, I don't think if I can— yeah, none of them are high-level CEOs and eating out constantly and in meetings and socializing and entertaining.

And these are people whose livelihoods revolve around health and fitness.

Yeah, correct.

Like the influencers and their phone. Whereas like CEOs and those people of big corporations, like, it's very much the opposite.

Yeah, and that's where the maximizing your results for that CEO is going to be, okay, let's have a look at the menu before you go out for lunch. Let's reduce the amount of wines you have, um, and then we can go— that's going to maximize your results at this point in time more than trying to be absolutely perfect.

Yeah, and then more getting into that, going further down the path, and they want to get cleaner, then it's like you got to sacrifice this if you want to do that. At the end of the day.

And they come to a point, it's like, what do you want more? What do you want more? Do you want to run your multi-million dollar company that you do run, or you want to get shredded? Yeah. And not saying— look, and it's not saying that you can't do both, but at one point something's got to give. But yeah, something's got to give. And you can look good and feel good and work to the best of your ability, better than you ever have been, or you can be shredded and walk around like a zombie. Yeah.

It's interesting the way you've put that there because you can maximize your results in different ways at different points in time, right? So you don't always have to be 100% in on, let's say, the nutrition side of things, but you might shift your focus a little bit to just focus on the strength aspect of your training rather than the body comp aspect. So in the long term, they're all gonna equate to a much better result. That you get at the end, but just having those times where you might pivot a little bit in terms of what the key focus is and not having always the focus on just body composition, I think is an important way to look at it as well. So it's not a case of you're either maximizing your results or you're going through the motions and not really getting anywhere. It's okay, what aspect of your results are we maximizing at any said time based on where your life is currently at. If you're really stressed out and you don't really have much time to, to meal prep, or you don't have much time to eat your meals even if you've got the meals, then maybe we just focus on a goal that's not necessarily centered around body composition right now.

Yeah.

And we come back to that at a time where it suits you better and you can put a bit more towards that.

And it might not— and it might not be the training and nutrition. You might have those on point. It might be the fact that you only sleep 4 hours a night because you work on an international time zone, or you sit on your bum all day long in meetings. So, you know, you might have training and nutrition on point, and you're like, why am I stuck? It's like, because you sit down out of 168 hours in the week, you're only on your feet for 4 hours. Yeah, you gotta put that into perspective. And it's okay, how can we just doing little things like you've done with— we spoke about this in one of our last podcasts, either walking meetings When your clients are in a meeting, doing them walking or taking a break every 90 minutes, just walk around the office for 10 minutes. Yeah, something like that. Or how can we get the best quality sleep? Yes, we might not be able to improve the quantity or the many— as many hours sleep you've got, but can we improve that 6 hours you're guaranteed to get? Can we make it the best 6 hours that you're ever going to get? And that— and it could be that. There's the flow-on effect as well.

Yeah, definitely. So I think just to summarize where we're at so far, so We all agree upon the fact that people need to allocate that time and they need to have a level of commitment towards that time and of value on that time to the chair, man. Always the chair. To get those training sessions in and some kind of structure around nutrition, whether that's putting the time aside to prep or alternatively seeking other options to get someone else to do that for them. Is that—

yeah, 100%.

Yeah, we're all on the right page there, which is great. Now let's start to look a little bit more in detail with kind of the nutrition and training components of that as well. So with training, what are we really looking at in terms of the amount of times per week somebody needs to get a good result?

I think the first question is how fast do you want that result? I think if you can, like, because some people starting at— you can get a result of twice a week, training twice a week if you've been doing nothing.

What's going to take—

yeah, and that's where it comes down to training age.

Yeah, but it's going to take longer. Yeah, it's like how long do you have and how long do you want to draw this result out for? So you can train for twice a week if you have been training 0 times a week, it's an improvement. Yeah, but it's not going to get you from A to B in the quickest or most efficient amount of time possible. So I think, you know, for me, I look, it's the same thing. Like, I, I like to allocate a minimum of at least 3 hours for people. I say if you can allocate and, and commit 3 hours a week to training, that's a good start. And that's a good— it's gonna— you're gonna get some results in a good amount of time. And I think the sweet spot is probably 5 is great. Yeah, I think 4 is a really good sweet spot. I think you can either— you can do quite— you can do enough, and then you can still— you can't go and do too much where you're absolutely beating the crap out of somebody, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I think— yeah, I agree. I think 4 is probably the sweet spot for the majority. I honestly think for a good result, 3 is where I'm drawing the line. As in anything less than 3 and you're like Look, anything less than 3, I think, like you just reiterated, you're going to make progress, but I don't think it's going to be as significant as you want.

What happens if you— let's say for instance they're super busy, right, and you go, they can't commit to 4 to 5, all right? So say for instance Tyrone just said 3 hours, but what happens if they go, but I can add an extra 30 minutes onto each session and do 90 minutes? Would you be like, okay, sweet, and add more into that? And they can't do that extra day?

We'll go— we'll get to that in a minute.

Well, yeah, that's what I'm thinking, because I've had a lot of clients go to me like, I've got one and he's doing 5, but he's like struggling with 5. And I said, all right, I was like, I'm more than happy for you to go to 4. I think he's doing 4. And I'm like, I'm happy to go to 3, but I'm gonna add more into these other sessions to get the adaptation, more adaptation out of your sessions.

Yeah, for sure. So I think I'll actually backtrack a little bit because I should probably be a little bit more clear with what I'm saying. I think if the goal is weight loss, I think you can get away with 2, but we'll discuss some other things around that which are important to maintain in order to get that outcome right. I think if the goal is muscle gain, I think 2 is not enough. There's not enough frequency within the week to actually stimulate that adaptation right in terms of muscle growth. So I think that they're the two sides of the spectrum that we're working on, right? Like, fat loss can definitely be a lot easier to achieve on less training days in the gym because— we'll unpack this a little bit more in a minute— but that really does come down to nutritional intake and calories in, calories out. At the end of the day, that is the biggest hurdle that we're, we're facing there. But I think, like I said, with gaining muscle, we have to be pushing 3 and beyond to really drive that adaptation.

And I don't care how much you think you're going to proximal failure twice a week and whatever 5 effective reps that you think you're doing that you've seen on social media. Yes, you're right, 2, no way, no way are you building muscle or making gains twice a week.

It's not enough.

Whether you think you're going to— yeah, you're pushing to failure those 2 times a week on every single exercise and every single set, you're kidding yourself. Yeah, you're just kidding yourself.

Yeah, for sure. So we're all in agreeance with that? Yeah, yeah, 3 to 5 is—

yeah, the sweet spot.

The sweet spot for a focus that's more driven towards muscle gain. By all means, if you've got that amount of time and the goal is fat loss, then fantastic. You're obviously going to get an even better outcome at the end of the day, and you're going to give yourself the opportunity to probably build some more lean mass within that fat loss journey as well.

Correct.

But with the fat loss outcome, we all agree that you could probably get away with those 2 strength days as long as the other areas are dialed in.

I think that's what it is though. It's like, and I think that's the conversation that the people— either your coach needs to have with you or you need to have with yourself— is if I can only do, commit to strength, strength sessions, what's a realistic outcome? Yeah. What, one, what's really realistic outcome is, and then two, it's like I need to make sure that every other aspect of my life is dialed in, from nutrition to sleep to steps to whether I can fit in a 10-minute run for another 4 times a week, whatever else. But that's got to be dialed in, and I think that's where you're going to be able to maximize your results off if you only were able to do 2 training sessions a week.

Yeah.

I think that's where people need to— again, 168 hours a week. If you're only moving for those 2 hours and not looking after everything else, like, you're just pissing against wind.

Yeah, yeah. I think this, that this is the beauty of this discussion, is helping people understand that you can still maximize certain results and certain outcomes, but there is certain variables that must be taken care of in order to do— not every single thing has to be dialed in all the time. but to get a certain adaptation or a certain outcome, that has to be a vast majority of those variables that are dialed in.

So if you get there, so then if we looked at the basics and go, okay, the absolute necessities in order for you to change your body composition, whether that be fat loss or building muscle, right, needs to be one, strength training. Yep. Two, so nutrition. Yep. Needs to be— look, I'm not even gonna say 100%. I'm going to say 80%.

So let's unpack nutrition.

If you're 80 to 90% consistent, right, you're pretty much going to get results, man.

100%, right?

It's— then, yeah, so you don't need to be— you don't need to be 100%. That's like, guys, that's not a ticket to just go and eat whatever you want tonight. But if you are consistent, 80 to 90, it's consistent and persistent time effort over time is what's going to get your result. And I think this sleep is getting— ideally, that between that 6 to 8 hours, 7 to 9 hours sleep What's that? Yeah, I know.

Or if you've got kids, 3 and above is great.

Yeah, getting the most, the most quality, the best quality sleep out of, out of that that you can. But then at the same time, just be realistic. Well, yeah, you've got an hour in a day, can you have a nap?

Yeah, I think on, on that little—

well, in the back of the paddy wagon.

Yeah, yeah, in the back of that. I think on that point exactly, we've also got to remember If a client comes to us and they're currently doing X and we can make some sort of improvements on that, whether it be sleep, whether it be nutrition, whether it be training, it's going to be better than what they were getting before in terms of outcome. So someone's sleeping 3, 3, 4 hours of really poor quality and we make it 4 or 5 hours consistently and the quality improves, it's still not towards that optimal 7 to 8 hours that we hear thrown around quite often, but it's still better than what they were getting.

That's a huge—

so it's going to be an improvement, right?

Yeah, but, and that's the thing, and sometimes I think everyone as well also tries to turn every single knob at the same time. Yeah, it's like, let's just turn one, let that sit, then we'll try another one, let that sit, and then just work our way through. If someone comes in and they're eating, or they're eating Maccas and drinking Coke and sleeping 4 hours a night and sitting on their ass playing video games all day All right, what's the first thing you can do? Okay, let's just tweak nutrition, right? Let's just maybe, maybe just swap that Coke for some water, right? Bang, you've less your caffeine intake, so you sleep pretty good, right? You're going to be less jittery, so you get less stress on the body. Your nutrition's improved from a calorie perspective, and you're actually hydrated too, so everything's going to move. And you're probably— that's where the easiest thing to do, where people are probably just going to lose, oh my God, I lost 5 kilos in 2 weeks.

Yeah, I generally find focusing on the 3 biggest limiting factors first, getting some progress there, and then focusing on the next thing.

Someone wrote—

yeah, you read that.

I think the biggest one's sleep as well. Like, I know I've got many clients, but one in particular that I know off the top of my head in UT, the one that I'm thinking about, but this one, like, obviously got 2 kids as well and she struggles with sleep.

Sleep.

The biggest thing that I told her to do— I didn't even give up, I've given her subs— but the biggest change that I made for her, and it was simple as this, I was like, she used to make her lunch for the kids, everything like that, get everything set up for her kids before school the next day so then she doesn't have to do it the next morning because she's always trying to run around. And I literally just said to her, I said, what I want you to do is get everything done before— I was like, get everything done, etc., and stuff like that before you go to bed. For the kids, everything, sandwiches, done. All you're going to do, your time to relax. So put them to bed, etc. You're going to have a hot shower before you go to bed. Just have a hot shower, nice warm shower, and relax. No music, nothing, no phone, phone's on charge, nothing. Then you're going to go straight into bed, and that's what you're going to do.

Done.

And look, she's probably— she messaged me twice the next day, or the day after, Got great sleep the day after that. Then the day after that, she had a bit of an off one. But I'm like, those two days, she's got better in that one week than the week before. So then it's just those little increments of just trying to improve that each— the sleep's the biggest thing, I believe.

This, this again goes back to what we discussed at the start in terms of creating that structure. Yeah, it's not just structure around training and nutrition, it's structure around the things that you do throughout the day and the tasks that make you very stressed or feel like you don't have time to do anything else, trying to find ways to maximize that better. Exactly like what you've just discussed. And that can make a big difference in terms of putting people in a more relaxed state when they're going to bed, which means they get better quality sleep. And then that obviously has a massive knock-on effect on all these other things in terms of like mood, ability to train harder. Which again all start to compound and add towards a better outcome and a better result. I just wanted to go back to nutrition briefly. I'm not sure if you guys have had a similar thing to me, but I always find that people misunderstand the— I suppose the focus on their nutrition from a standpoint of if the goal is to lose weight, we need to be consistent in that calorie deficit. And if the goal is to build muscle, we need to be consistent in that calorie surplus somewhat. Do you guys agree that's probably an area where people don't understand the necessity of both of those things, whether it be a deficit or a surplus, and what that looks like? Because I think you might have those people who are in a deficit from Monday to Friday and then they undo all the hard work over the weekend, or those people who are in a calorie surplus but then they have 2-3 days where shit gets crazy, schedule's hectic, they don't eat enough, and then all of a sudden they're massively down on their calorie consumption, meaning that on average they're actually just not doing either.

I think— I feel like there's a lot to unpack there because I feel like we get a wide range of— I definitely get a wide range of that. It's either—

let's scratch the surface. Yeah, let's give the people enough.

It's either people that— it's either— yeah, like that. It's either blowing out on the weekend and undoing all the hard work you've done Monday to Friday, whether that be in a surplus deficit or it's just taking things to the absolute extreme, whether that be your 18, 19-year-old, 20, 22, 25, even 40-year-old females that we get, and it's just victims of social media and just taking that calorie deficit to the extreme for extended period of time, whether that be Yeah, just for extended period of time. Or the bro that comes in and they've just taken that perma-bulk approach and they've just been bulking. It's like, you're just getting fat now.

Yeah, you don't need to be in that.

So I think, yeah, I think, yeah, the majority will fall within that. So if we look at it and go, okay, 70% in that bell curve of, yep, Monday to Friday are good, and then they'll either— they'll ruin everything on the weekend by either having a blowout and going out and having drinks and etc., etc., or just not eating enough because there's different structure on the weekend. And then you've got that 15% that are just in a calorie deficit for too far, too much for too long. And then you've got the guys or even girls that are just on that perma-bulk stage and they're just in that surplus for far too long. Because you need, at the same time, like without going too deep, but you need to have phases as well. And we all know, and that's the difference between when people come in and they go, oh, I've tried everything. Well, one, okay, let's try consistency first. And then two, it's okay, let's have stages. And this is where a good coach will go, will plan it out in front of you and go, okay, this is this stage, this is what's going to happen. And then the next phase is going, okay, we're going to give you a little break. Let's say you might have a diet break. We might diet for 12 weeks and you might have a diet break because it's going to be a little bit of a psychological break, etc. And that's where you need those things as well. And it's not just going, oh, I've been good Monday to Friday, I'm going to reward myself with 35 tequila shots on a Friday and Saturday, plus the kebab and some Maccas on the way home, and then just blowing it all out. Yeah. So I think it's, yeah, creating those consistency, but also creating a bit of discipline and some boundaries as well. Yeah, people want— oh, they want freedom. I just want to eat what I want and look good. It's not how it goes.

Yeah.

And that's— Drocco always has that discipline equals freedom. You need to put some boundaries Perform well, you need some sort of boundaries. It's like laws and rules. We had no laws and rules to be— okay, that's a very Mark Ottobre thing to say, wasn't it?

Yeah, I think that, that's a good point. But I think, look, people can eat what they want and get the results if we look at it from a calorie standpoint. But on that point, from a health perspective, it's not going to have your health in the best place it can be, is the trade-off if you wanted to do it that way. And that's why obviously We don't encourage people to just go eat Maccas and eat in a calorie deficit and lose weight, because then in terms of overall nourishment and like health and well-being, it's not gonna help improve all these other factors that are important in terms of like recovery, energy levels throughout the day, cognitive function, all these things that require like a nutritionally balanced approach to nutrition and making sure they're getting a lot of vitamins, minerals, those types of things in to support those other systems as well.

You're like washing your car and never taking it for a service.

Or imagine you went to McDonald's, you ordered cheeseburger, chips, Coke, right? You know, I could probably have a handful of that, like heaps of those, and I'd still be hungry after. This food volume— if you have a good source of protein, good source of fats, good source of carbs, veggies in a meal, pretty much going to be pretty satisfied after.

But I think going back onto what James said is, and we look at it, and this the best way I've heard it looked at is calories are going to determine how much you weigh, the macronutrients within those calories are going to determine how you look, the micronutrients within those macronutrients are going to determine how you feel. So if you're just going on calories in versus calories out and not worrying about getting adequate protein, yeah, you'll lose weight, but where is the weight coming from? And if you just go you're low, if it fits your macros, and you know you're getting it all from ice cream and Maccas and fries and whatever, right, you may get those macros right, but from a micronutrient level, right, and on a blood, let's say a blood work perspective and an internal health perspective, like, you're probably going to die at 35. Or it's exaggerating, but you're gonna, it's gonna be horrible. So, and I think just addressing all that, and that's where we go back to going sometimes easiest and the smallest changes to maximize your results is just going, okay, from where you're at, you need to have 3 meals with some protein, some carbs, and some fats. That's it. Because you're going to look better, you're going to feel better, and you know what, you're still in a calorie deficit.

And it goes back to the point where you said if you're 80 to 90% consistent with your food and your nutrition and you have a bit of chocolate, whatnot, in the evenings and stuff like along those lines, something that you enjoy that's not so-called in plan, we can just work that in. Yeah, you just work it in, make it work. Like, this more for the psychological benefit, especially with the client in a weight loss, fat loss phase. It's more of a psychological benefit for them as well. And that's being not a client-centered coach and not just being like, these are my rules, this is what you've got to stick to.

I think this is probably the biggest challenge that we can all agree on that you face with clients as well, is they just don't understand how to incorporate those types of foods into their nutrition. Alongside still being at the point they need to be, whether it's in a calorie deficit, calorie surplus, in order to achieve the goal. And I think social media probably plays a role in this as well, where people might post videos and say, oh, you can still lose weight eating these things, but then there's no context around how to actually do that. So I suppose one of our biggest focus points is educating the clients on, okay, Going back to my point before, like, do people understand how to be consistent in either a calorie deficit or a calorie surplus to attain the goal that they're looking for? It all comes down to education of the clients and them understanding, okay, if I do have a burger and chips, then what other things do I need to moderate throughout my day to allow for that? And we can, in the early stages, we can set it up for them where they— it takes all the guesswork out and we do it for them. But I suppose the long-term goal in that instance is to get the client to a point where eventually they are able to moderate those things for themselves and they understand, okay, if I'm going out for a 3-course meal in the evening time, I'll maybe moderate my carbs and my fats in my other 2-3 meals before I go there to allow me to consume a little bit more but still be hitting my targets of what I need to still achieve the goal that I want.

And I think even then it's that initial point of sometimes we need to create a little bit of discipline around that and go, okay, we're going to limit you to 2 squares of chocolate a night and create some sort of discipline and create some sort of boundaries and pull that leash a little bit tighter sometimes at the start so then we can let it loose a little bit at the end. And that's where that discipline equals freedom comes in. It's like, create a bit of discipline at the start so then you've learned how to have a little bit of freedom later. And whether that be, okay, I'm gonna go out and have some ice cream with the kids later So what is ice cream? It's mostly fats and carbs. All right, so I might just have to limit that a little bit later. Or if I'm having it early in the day, then I'm going to have to limit my fats and carbs later on, or stick to a— swap my fatty cut of meat to a lean cut of meat. So I think—

which again is generally something people don't understand, right?

That's it as well. Yeah, like it's just, it's swapping those. Oh, but I eat Scotch fillet 3 times a day.

It's like, it's a lot of fats, man.

It's the same thing like with that nutrition one that we were talking about before and what T just mentioned just then, of letting go of that leash as they go through that process. Because if you give them everything that they want at the start, they're not going to have that discipline and that understanding of nutrition. If you just be like, look, this is your plan to start off with, all right, you have this, you're going to be full on this, perfect, sweet, all right, measure whatnot, okay, you've dropped body fat, all 'All right, what would you like?' 'Oh, can I have this?' 'Yeah, okay, that works in— that makes one— make that work, that's fine.' But that's more of creating a discipline for them at the start rather than being like, 'All right, everything that you've done, perfect,' which never happens when you come here. It's never perfect. So let's— okay, go with that.

Yeah, I like to— the way I like to explain this to clients, both in nutrition and training, when I first get started with them is we're going to start with a certain amount of constraints. We're going to follow those constraints, but that's going to provide you with a level of understanding that when we start to loosen those constraints off, you actually understand how to manage those variables better yourself.

Correct.

Rather than just give them all the options in the world and they don't really know where to begin, it's, hey, let's narrow down to begin with and start with X plan with these constraints. And then as you get better at it, we can start to loosen those constraints and you now have the ability to adapt and adjust that accordingly without throwing everything out the window that we've just worked on.

But again, and that's, you know what, and one way to maximize results, maximize your results, is limit your choice. If your program's done for you, you don't have a choice. You just go in and do it. You don't stand there in the gym going, oh, this looks a bit busy, I'll do this, whatever. If you've either got a meal plan done for you you've got no choice. If the meals are prepared for you, you've got— you've limited choice. And that's— if you don't have a choice, then you're just going to do what's right in front of you. The more choices you have to make, and especially when you're in a hurry and you've got 10,000 other things going on in your life, you're going to make the poorest choices, generally speaking. And then if you don't actually make a choice at all and you end up being hungry, you're going to make even poorer choices. So it's like I said to clients, if you go shopping to Coles And when you're hungry, what are you gonna buy? You buy everything that you can eat right now because you just want to satisfy that. You go after you've just eaten, you'll stick to your list and you'll stick to it and you'll go straight in, get where to get, and straight out. So I think a big one is there, limiting your choice as well.

Yeah, definitely. I'm just conscious on time and there is a couple more things that I want to address. Firstly is we've obviously covered training as it relates to training days and the goal that we're looking to achieve. What about training intensity in the gym?

Yeah, training with training.

Yeah, just like being important. Oh, 100%.

I think, again, and this goes back to social media, and a lot of the— there's a lot of people that we follow and we get education from that bring nuances to training. And I think there's a— it gets lost in translation at the moment where it's like doing things at certain angles and RIRs and RPEs. It's like, man, sometimes you just got to go in, right? See that rep range you've been given, like, just lift that weight. And if it feels like you can't get any more reps in that rep range, right, you've done a good job. Get in, train hard, and do what you need to do.

It's 100%. It's— I know you've taught me this a lot. So like, obviously we program 4-week blocks, and if it's an 8 to 10 rep range, I always get my clients to just hit 10 to start off with. Just hit 10, get comfortable with the weight. And then obviously second week, okay, maybe we'll start to hit a couple of 8s. Third week, hit more 8s. And then obviously that fourth week, hit all 8s, because you're going to get a new phase, new program. So that training intensity— you're lifting heavier load, training intensity is increasing, progressive overload is happening each week, therefore adaptation occurs, and we're gonna obviously get big muscles, whatnot.

So yeah, I think on that. If you've got, if you've got a rep range and you get to, let's say, week 4 of your program and you're still comfortably at the top end of the rep range, then on this specific area you're not hitting a level of intensity.

Or if you're just keeping the same weight for the entire 4 weeks and you're not making any progress, I think adding in a little set to failure after that, or a rest-pause, and it's like, oh, that's it, yeah, at the right time. But I think like, just going, you just use the same weight for 8 reps and then you got 12 to 15 reps on the same— okay, you're not training hard enough. Yeah, well, you need to just— let's bump up your weights. Let's just turn that knob up to 11 a little bit and go.

Sometimes it just takes that level of realization of, oh yeah, he's right, I've actually just done another X amount of reps on a weight that I should only be able to do this for.

People don't know that though.

No, 100%. It's the education.

I've had some online clients go— I've seen their weights like 4 weeks later and it's still the same, or or they're still hitting 10 reps and it's a heavier load, but I'm like, you've got so much more in you. You're last week, we want to be—

you need to push that weight up higher.

And I'm like leaving a note at the end, I'm like, push this heavier, lift heavier load.

Yeah. And I think on that, there's obviously some exercises that we're not going to do that with. So like your traditional compound, so like your squat, bench, and your deadlift are probably going to be the ones. Yeah, I suppose more for, more for the gen pop client from a safety perspective, right? Obviously For someone who's got a much higher training age, you can get away with certain things here and there, especially if you've got a spotter or you're training with your coach. Then that might be the time where we push a max set on the bench press and the safety elements taken care of. But there's some exercises where you're going to moderate that intensity for more of that gen pop person. But the safer movements, anything that's machine-based or dumbbell-based, like helping people understand we want you to be pushing a weight that's challenging you to hit the bottom end of that rep range by week 3, week 4, so that you're maximizing that intensity that we're pushing out in your training.

Yeah, 100%. I agree.

Beautiful. Last thing I want to cover is NEAT.

Big one.

How important is NEAT, and how misunderstood is NEAT in people getting—

doing it right now—

long-term results?

How important is it? It's huge. How misunderstood is it?

A lot.

Yeah, yeah. What's— we're just like, what's NEAT? Non-exercise activity temperature, which is what you're doing right now. Yep, swinging and fidgeting. And it's unintentional movement. So it's unintentional movement.

So it's everything, everything that you do when you're not sedentary, outside of training, or— yeah, like outside of training.

Yeah, so it's walking to get somewhere without thinking about it at the same time. So it's not— yes, it is a step allocation. Like, you may have a step allocation or you may strive for a step allocation, but that's probably because your NEAT and the steps that you don't think about is maybe, let's say, 5,000, and your aim is to hit 8,000 to 10,000. Your NEAT is then 5,000, and plus all the fidgeting that you might do because the Apple Watches sometimes pick up when you're just tapping your foot. Yeah. That's your NEAT. Anything extra, that is prescribed, right? So I think learning your importance of NEAT— and this is where like a lot of the hard gainers come into respect, into retrospect— where they just move a lot. Like, they're just like constantly just tapping away, just moving. Like, they're the pen fidgeters. Yeah, you— I mean, if I look at Christian, Christian doesn't— like, he's just always moving.

No, he stops moving.

Yeah, it's just constantly going. And Whereas you look at someone— actually, there was actually in Dan Garner's course, and he mentions that females actually do less NEAT whether they're in a deficit, surplus, or maintenance.

Amy's a big one.

Yeah, yeah, big one.

You look at her, you're gonna move a lot.

But I think that's, yeah, heavily underrated, and I think it's been misunderstood because I think it should become one of those Chinese whispers things where it started off as NEAT, then turned into steps, then turned into I don't know, I mean, like people doing cardio, oh, but it's my needs. Just not unique. But we need to understand your need in order to determine how many calories that you can have.

Yeah, so to, to, to break that down for the listeners or the viewers, it's an essential part of figuring out where your starting point is from a caloric perspective, and it's going to determine what is considered a calorie deficit or calorie surplus based on that level of need to exercise alongside the other things that you— and that's in terms of training.

And that's where some people are going to be unfortunate and go, why can this person— yeah, exactly. Example A, he's on 4,000 calories at the moment and he's hungry. Yeah. And he's actually losing weight.

Yeah. And the person who sits at the desk all day is like, why can he eat so much food but I can't?

Not even him, like me.

Yeah.

Like, I'll sit on 3,300 as a maintenance and I'm like, man, but I just don't move as much, I don't fidget as much, and that's where it comes down to. And it's bad luck.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And I think equating that and just being realistic with that, going, okay, you're not a movement person, which if you're not moving as much, you don't warrant as much food.

Yeah, I think one of the other things with NEAT as well and training in the gym is I think people automatically assume that by strength training that they're going to lose weight, and that's one of the key drivers of losing weight. But NEAT actually burns a hell of a lot more calories than what that one training session does. And like we said at the beginning, NEAT is everything outside of— you're either laying in bed or you're training. It's everything in the middle that is adding towards that NEAT. And if we look at, let's say someone's out of bed for 16, 17 hours a day and they only train for 1 hour, like that 1-hour snippet of maybe 400 or 500 calories that you burn in a gym session, if you're pushing at a high intensity, is a very small percentage of your overall calories burned throughout the day. So if the goal is weight loss, focusing on training more in the gym is not necessarily the focus point. Yes, you want to be consistent and train with intensity, but making sure you're taking care of your NEAT and your daily activity is actually where you're probably going to see most of the progress in terms of our fat loss, right?

Yeah, exactly.

It goes back to is when we're talking about the hours in the gym, you're in there hours, what, 3 to 5 hours, let's say tops. Like everything else around that, it'd be— you'd be doing it a hell of a lot more.

So yeah, and I think it's important to highlight in the gym we've got 3, 3 key adaptations. It's getting stronger, building muscle, or improving muscular endurance or aerobic capacity. Fat loss isn't an adaptation of training, it's just a byproduct of consistency over time. And if we look at a calorie deficit being one of the key components of that, taking care of NEAT throughout the day takes up a huge, huge amount of what that looks like for everybody. Yeah. So actually understanding the importance of hitting your steps or making sure you're doing that general activity throughout the day holds a lot of importance. The last thing I wanted to touch on this topic before we wrap things up is, in terms of those people who don't have the time to complete their NEAT, do you guys see value in maybe adding, like Marty said a little bit earlier, adding a little bit of extra time where they might just do a small amount of cardio at the end of their sessions so that it takes a lot shorter time period to get those overall steps up throughout the day? Yes, it might be just outside of the means of it being considered NEAT, but if it allows them to get that activity level up from a time perspective, do you think that's of value to the right individual?

I've had one client I know in particular in the past that's struggle because the CEO could barely walk around at work, or he used to walk around at work, but he was in a lot of meetings. And I've literally just said to him, during sessions here, he used to train with me 4 days a week, and I've just said, in between when we're resting and packing away equipment, you're gonna go for a walk. Just walk around the gym, just try and move. Because essentially, like you said before, realistically, training in the gym isn't gonna benefit fat loss. Realistically, you've got to look at how many calories we're consuming compared to how many we're burning. So realistically, that's going to be a byproduct. I know T's mentioned a couple of times with incorporating, like, outside of the gym, if they're at work and they can afford a treadmill at home or something like that, then utilizing that, because essentially that's going to help them get their steps in. So realistically, if you don't have enough time to do it in the gym, then okay, and you don't have enough time to get out of home because of kids or efficiency. Yeah, exactly. It's just efficient and it's working around their means at the end of the day.

That makes it easy to do other things while you do it. Yeah, exactly. Rather than having out and just seamlessly walk around.

So if you need to get a cheap treadmill, and I'm sure there's heaps on Gumtree and whatnot and stuff like that, or Marketplace, like, just go get one from there, sit here, go to your desk, put it on next to your desk on your laptop. If you're on a call, then just walk on the treadmill at the same time. It's so much easier, and it's benefiting them as well at the same time.

So yeah, 100%. And I'm all for if they can't get— if you can't get your steps in, be like, I've got 15 minutes, cap. In the day, mate, run. Can I just run instead? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, just get it in. Just get it in. Any movement and more movement you can do is going to be beneficial than what you're currently doing, regardless if it falls outside of it being neat. It is, it is what it is.

It is what it is.

We use what we got with this time. So yeah, I think, yeah, all for it.

And yeah, adding on to that with those adding time onto the end of their training session, 100%. Like, realistically, if you're trying to get— like, my client's trying to get in this phase, a muscular adaptation. So realistically, if he's not going to be training enough, then he's not going to get that adaptation, right? I've just included some more sets onto his other exercises on his other days, and that's the way that we're going to work it. So, and that suits him, so happy days.

Beautiful. Okay, gentlemen, I think we'll wrap this one up there. We've probably gone a little bit over, but I think we've probably provided quite a lot of quality information for people to to unpack there. So thank you both for joining me today. Tyrone, if people want to find you, where can they go?

Find me on Instagram @coach_folino. That's F-O-L-I-N-O. Or at 381 Swan Street at Enterprise Fitness. That's where we are, that's where I always am. But yeah, that's where you'll find me.

Awesome. Matty, yourself?

Instagram is @mattcrookspt, or yeah, pretty much 381 Swan Street.

Thank you. And you can find me James Kelly PT on Instagram, and obviously the same as the boys, 381 Swan Street or melbournepersonaltrainers.com. Thank you for joining us today. For all our viewers and all our listeners, until next time, train hard, eat well, supplement smart, and ring the bell.

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