Crucial Conversations | Ep. 11

when I'm getting that feedback on what I need to be doing to better show up as a husband. And then I then argue about that, like, no, you're wrong here. So the argument has completely changed to a different argument. And I'm sure, like, as I'm talking about this, people can relate to it because a lot of these themes are not one marriage that has these issues. Like, everybody kind of goes through this stuff when you're learning how to be married.

Welcome to the Rising Tribe. I'm Jared, and I'm Austin, and our goal is to inspire young men to build strong families and discover their potential as men, husbands, and fathers.

And we'll do this by having authentic conversations about faith, family, health, and business as we strive to level up our lives and the lives around us. Welcome everybody to our November episode. We are super excited to have you here and obviously super excited to catch back up again. So I am, uh, I am in Arizona right now. And Jared, where are you? Are you—

I am actually at home in my attic in, uh, in Italy. So, uh, we are, we are projected to stay home. I gotta go back to the States for a week or so in December, and then, uh, yeah, I'll be spending the rest of the time here in Italy. But come January, we're going to be on a road show, so Uh, next year we'll be in, uh, we'll be in Vegas for a while. We're going to be in Florida for a little while. Um, and then yeah, then be back here for a little bit and might spend some time in Colorado too while we're out there. So we're, we're going to be on the move next year. That's for sure.

That is so much fun. I actually find it easier to travel with a kid because you skip all the lines and security. Do they do like, if you have a stroller, you skip right to the front. It is the best. Now the airplane flight's different. Georgia was. Terrible on the airplane the other day, but she eventually fell asleep.

But we're about to turn 2, isn't she?

Like, she turns 2 on December 4th. So did she's dancing. She's like, she can use all the monkey, like the equipment at the, at the, at the park, like climbing up ladders. She has me scared. But she's like fearless, you know. So she's singing like Ariel and stuff like that. That's why before we started the podcast, she said gadgets and gizmos, and I was like, oh my gosh, she sings that all the time. But she goes for Ariel, like Little Mermaid. She'll be like, when it says thingamabobs, I have 20. She'll go, thingamabobs, 20.

Oh my gosh, that's awesome, man.

How's your daughter?

Oh, dude, she's doing great. She's starting to say more words, which is good.

That's huge.

Talitha is only about I think she's only about 6 weeks behind Georgia, maybe 7 weeks. But we speak to her in German as well. So her speech is a little bit delayed because generally when you're raising multilingual children, they start speaking a little bit later because they're processing multiple languages, but they usually catch back up fairly quickly. So she's starting to say some words in English and she says some words in German, but But she's, she's chugging along, man. She's, she is, she loves skateboarding. Talitha loves, uh, she loves riding bikes. So we, we have a, a kid's seat on the back of Marisha's bike. And so like we, we ride her around. She loves being out. She likes to sit on skateboards or I've got a longboard and I'll like stand her on it and I'll ride with her. She absolutely loves it. So, um, she is, dude, she's just happy and cute as can be.

That is so freaking fun, man. It's fun being a dad, dude.

It's like, dude, it is. It really is. And you were saying like, uh, you get worried about Georgia, like on the monkey bars, dude. I am way more concerned about like my child's safety than, than my wife is. I, I'm always like, dude, she's gonna fall, she's gonna fall, she's gonna fall, she's gonna hurt herself. And like sometimes she actually is gonna hurt herself. Like one time a painting almost fell on her because she went like pushed it and I got it. But most of the time I'm just like, like hyper concerned that she's gonna get hurt.

I'm like, yeah, good. That's how a good dad is, you know. You like worried for the kiddo. But Kaya, I think it might be the same way. I feel like I'll be harder on my sons than I am on my daughter. It might be like the same way for a mom to daughter. I don't know if that's accurate or not.

Dude, Marisha and I were just talking about that. I was like, dude, I could have all the girls in the world. Like if I had a son, I'm, man, what are you doing? Get up. Like, you got work to do.

Uh-huh. I think, yeah, Georgia's figured out how to get me to fold on a lot of things. Yeah. Like She'll just look at me and go, "Please." And she does sign language, so she's rubbing her hand on her chest. "Please." And then before I say okay, sometimes she'll go, "Okay, okay." So she'll start like assuming the sale. And I'm like, you are my daughter.

She's closing you before she's even 2.

Yeah, dude, she's smart. But she's been cool, man. I've been getting to hang out with my daughter a ton recently because, you know, I think last episode we talked about how I just decided to stop knocking for the year. I, and then I finished up like a, the Anthem Training kind of platform. I took all of our videos and I turned it into a university. So now there are like chapters that you have to go through and some quiz questions, which is, which is great. I was pushing it off for a while and I don't know if you've ever had this, but like things that you think about a ton end up being way more simple once you sit down and do them. Yeah. So that, that's what this thing was. I was like really stressed out about it. And then once I actually sat down and did it, it did not take nearly as much time as I thought. And so just another reminder, I feel like I've learned that lesson a couple times. I'm like, okay, I wanna, I just want this to be the last time I, I learned this, but, um, I'm human. So, um, yeah, man, that's a little bit of update on Anthem stuff. We just got back from a. Retreat with them. And—

Wait, so real, real quick, real quick. You, uh, are you done, done knocking for the year? Cause I remember you had said like, oh, we might go out with, uh, your tech.

Yeah. So I'm done knocking. There are some new development that I'm pro— probably gonna go hit with Diego. Um, you know, there are no other door knockers right now, so it's always kind of good to go in. And some of that's low-hanging fruit, dude, with like new development. It's like people that literally just moved in and they don't have a company and you show up and you're the guy, right? Um, but we do have a blitz. Blitzes like are what sales companies will do just so that guys don't lose their edge. We do that. We're doing that from December 11th through 16th. And this is actually pretty cool for anybody listening, but if you want to, like, if they, if, if you want to try it out, our company will literally pay for you to come out, like, expense, like, the flight, the food, and the Airbnb all paid for just to come and try it out. Which is, I think it'll be good to help out our company because like typically when you do blitzes, And you're like, okay, cool. Come on and fly out. They're like, no, I don't want to do that. Like, I don't even know if I'm going to make money doing this, which is super valid. So that's something cool that my company is doing this year for a December Blitz. And, um, man, uh, the retreat we did was pretty cool, dude. Like we stayed up at an Airbnb in, in Utah and they rented Mitch and Ben rented a portable sauna. And so we did that. We had some, we, we were hanging out in the sauna. We had some speakers come in. I spoke about kind of like making a game plan for your life. Like things won't, it's kind of like our last episode, one of the, one of the last two we did about like creating a design for your life as opposed to just hoping things go the right way. Just got to connect with a lot of reps, went on some runs in Utah and, uh, got to see some family before I came back home. And then literally I came back home. And got on an airplane the next day to come to Arizona. We're out, we're out west for like 2 weeks now, just visiting family, man. This is, this is, I think why I like doing my job. Cause I just get to pick these little frames of time where Kaya and I just travel and have fun. So it's been a good time, man. I cannot complain.

Dude, that makes me so happy. Um, so you're going to be in Arizona for the next couple of weeks and then heading back to Georgia?

We, yeah, we're going to be here for 2 weeks with a little trip out to California to see my sister. We've got, we've got a Spartan half marathon in 2 days and it will be Kaya's first ever half marathon, like the furthest she's ever ran. Uh, we just did like a training run for 5 miles together with Georgia. Dude, way cool, by the way. Like one of the things that Kaya and I, like, I'm really happy about us, like, is we figured out how to get Georgia to fall asleep on a run. And we can just run for 30 minutes to an hour and she stays asleep.

Just in a stroller?

Yep, she's out in a jogger. We've got a jogger stroller that we actually flew out here with us because we love jogging with her. But she was out for a full hour. We logged 5 miles. And it was kind of cool, like running next to my wife. I do not dare lift with my wife. But running, we both are not good at. Like, we're not, not good, but we are not elite athletes in running on either, on either end. And so it's kind of fun for us to both work on that together. Now you put me next to her in a weightlifting kind of setting and I am instantly, this is like a pride thing on my end, but I'm a disgrace to her. And then because of my form and then I take offense. It's not good.

It's, it's tough, dude. And, and your wife's a monster. I, I watched it. I watched that last competition that you sent me the, the link of and I was like, holy crap, dude.

Yeah. Like my friends think I'm strong and like I'm a good lifter and then my wife's like, yeah, dude, like you're all right, but you're not. Yeah. Like, thank you. So, uh, but running's cool cuz we get to do that together and I like it. I'm a little bit better than her than running, so I kind of feel a little better about myself, but we are competitive. I think so. Uh, but yeah, we have the half marathon and then we're going to go out to California to see my sister. Dude, I had this thing with my sister. This is a little more about the update, but like last time I saw my sister in Colorado when they all came out for the last Spartan, I just remember like giving her a hug at the airport and I just cried. I'm like, dude, I have not seen you in so long. And I'm like, let's never let that happen again. So we planned right then and there, like, I'll see you in, in, uh, November for Thanksgiving. But that's kind of been like the theme for my year, man, is like, I'm just seeing my family. I don't really care.

That's awesome.

Uh, when it is, it's just, yeah, making that a priority. Yeah.

My, uh, my mom just flew out. She's, uh, gonna be spending the next 3 weeks with us here in Italy and it's really exciting cuz next week is Thanksgiving and We're gonna go spend 4 days in Rome for Thanksgiving. So we're gonna get to go to the temple there. We're gonna get to take her to the temple. We got a hotel that's just, it's just down the street from the Colosseum. Like depending on what room you're in, like you can see it's just right there. And it's a, it looks like it's gonna be a pretty sweet hotel. So I'm excited about that. And yeah, and then we're just gonna get to explore Rome. My mom's never been to Europe before, so this is like, this is kind of a big deal and we are super stoked because I mean, we, when we, when we came out here, found out we were going to come to Italy, we were like, this is awesome, because we, we want to get to be, uh, a reason to get people out to see the world. Like, yes, we want people to come see us as well, but we want people to come and see just how incredible this world is, because the world's huge. There is so much to be learned all over the world, and sometimes we just need a little bit, just a little bit more of an incentive to get us to, to like break that barrier, to go somewhere, to go have a new experience and explore the world. So we're really like really grateful, um, like humbled that we get to be part of that. Um, I've got my sister's coming out at the beginning of next year and it's, yeah, dude, it's just gonna be, it's gonna be a good time. Um, so I'm, I'm pretty happy about that. Um, and then, oh, I'm, I'm looking here at the notes. Uh, you've also got on here Living with a Seal and then your anthology.

Oh yeah.

So tell me about that. Yeah.

So, okay. I'm reading Living with a Seal, which is Jesse Itzler.

Yeah.

Okay. I don't have, I don't have goggins living in my house, man. That'd be crazy. Um, but the book's insane, man. Like, That's one of— that's the book. I'm almost through with it right now. I had to take a break from MLK's autobiography. I got more than halfway through it, and then I'm like, okay, cool. I need like— that's a dense book, and it's also— it's incredible. But I wanted to throw in another book that like I could fly through, and then I'll go back and finish up his autobiography this week. But after I finish that, I probably mentioned this in another podcast, but I'm gonna go down to the MLK Museum, see where he was born and his home. And then—

that's right. That's right.

That's right. I just want to do a tour of that, of that part of Atlanta, just because like it is loaded with history. And that's, that's pretty much where the civil rights movement happened there. Montgomery, Alabama, Birmingham, Alabama, and a couple of places down in Georgia. So, um, really inspired by him. Like he really just changed the world. So those are the two books I'm reading right now. And, um, crazy thing. So going back to like Jesse Itzler, I went to the, the Running Man event. So he throws that event. And, um, yeah, so Jesse Itzler did the Running Man event. He, he ran it with All Day Running Company. There's a guy named Devin who's involved in All Day Running Company too. And the event, I don't know if I talked about it last time, but the event was literally a mile-long track. And in the middle of it, we're like in the middle of Kingston, Georgia, in this, like, the week prior, they did some electronic dance festival out there. So it's like a festival area, big old fields, like lots of trees. But it is beautiful out there. And they had the big, big track that they had made in the middle, they had the world's largest sauna, they had a stage, they had tons of tents, they had campgrounds, they had food trucks. They had people advertising for a lot of running gear. Everything was there, man. It was like, it was a great festival. They had like blow-up slides, slip and slides, cornhole, cold plunges. It was so much fun. But I did that event. And the whole thing was, you know, run the furthest you've ever ran, like really try to push yourself. And The furthest I had run up to that point was a marathon. So just 26.2. And I actually, I did it with a guy from our mission, Parley, um, Parley Brown. And I signed up for the marathon because I was, I was nervous to commit to doing a 50K, which is like a little over 31 miles.

Yeah.

And then when I got there, people are asking me, how far are you going to run? And I just kept saying, oh, a marathon, but I want to see how much further I can go. And even when I started the race, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do a marathon, but I wanna see how much further I can go after that. And eventually, like halfway through, I just decided to burn the boats and say, hey, look, I'm doing a 50K. So anytime somebody asked, I say, I'm doing the 50K. And I did it. Um, I did one of the things that people would do out there and it, it's all coming from a good place, but they'd be like, yeah, how far are you? And all I would say is, uh, I'm just trying to get to the aid station. That's it. Like I had to break it up into these little tiny pieces. Otherwise, like mentally I could not handle it. Yeah. And that's how any big goal is. Right. Like, I think that's probably where I fell short in some of my summer goals too, is like I focused on the big picture too much so that instead of focusing on little benchmarks, which I did, I did all right at, I got overwhelmed a lot by the idea of hitting a big goal. So this time when I did my run., it was kind of cool because I could, I still proved to myself that I can do hard things. Um, I just had, man, I had people on that race that helped me out. I had a guy that I sold a pest control account to 3 years ago who runs a ton of races in Atlanta. And he saw me there and he coached me through like the last 6 miles. And, um, so freaking cool, man.

Dude, that's awesome.

Yeah. I mean, it was so fun. I did 32 miles and afterwards I could not walk. It was brutal. Yeah.

I saw, I saw, uh, I think it was your video of, uh, you had like the ice, the leg, the, the giant like leg ice pack things. You're like hooked up to a machine trying to, trying to cool those suckers down.

Dude, it was brutal. Like, yeah, it wasn't even like the muscles, like my, my ankles were like internally bruised. My feet hurt. Like everything was chafed, like bleeding chafed. It was so bad. Like, but it's so cool. I'm like, and I, then I wonder, I'm like, and I want to keep doing this. Stuff, like it is addicting. Like, do you really like, once you do something big like that, it's like, cool, how fast can I do it next time? So right after that, I signed up for a marathon in January, which I hope to go sub 5 hours. That's my, my next goal.

That would be awesome. That would be awesome.

So a little bit of my running activities, man. And finally got Kaya to do the half marathon with me. That's the, that's the most, that's the thing I'm looking forward to most. So dude, that little update on our life, man.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess I'll go ahead and jump into my updates.

So yeah, let's hear it.

Work's been, work's been nuts. There's a, there's a lot going on, um, in the Middle East, obviously. And, uh, we are out here and we are, uh, poised to, we're kind of always being here in Italy, we're always poised to support, um, allied partners and NATO and whatnot. So things are kind of always just up in the air. Uh, But we chug along, like we've got, we've got plans for regular flying and training and whatnot. And we, we stick to those until someone says otherwise. And, uh, no one said otherwise so far. So we, uh, we just, we just keep chugging along. But, um, updates regarding, uh, kind of my side project, which is, uh, what I get most excited about. So that's, that's my website for, uh, travel rewards and, uh, travel hacking for military members. Um, so for anyone who's interested, it's militarytravelrewards.com. Um, but it's, yeah, it's a, it's a small, I mean, it's a project that I'm working on, but I have, I have some pretty big goals and we were talking a little bit before we hit record and then I said, well, let's freaking just hit record and start talking about it. So looking at, looking at my goals, I have, I've written up here, you know, very clearly, these are, these are the specific goals. This is what I, this is what I need to hit in order to know that I have come, you know, a certain, a certain distance that I've really made progress and here are the markers and milestones, which is obviously really important because often we say, well, I want to change my life. I want to do this, like something like really vague and kind of just up in the air. And if your goal isn't clear, or if there's no clear metric for success, then you rob yourself of the satisfaction of having completed something, or the knowledge that you didn't complete it if you didn't hit it. You kind of live in that gray limbo of like, well, you know, I kind of got in shape. Like, how did you define getting in shape? Like, what, you know, when you say, well, I want to get in shape, but what does get in shape look like? And that's where people start to throw around, you know, like, I want to lose a certain amount of weight, or I want to be able to put up a certain amount of weight on the bars, or whatever. But it's important to have certain milestones or like hard concrete goals so that you know for yourself, like, I am making progress. And so my current goal right now is that by the end of next year to— well, first, like, as a family, we want to break the $300,000 net worth. And then specifically for this, kind of as a stepping stone to get to that point is to be able to double my income. And so I want to match my military income with my income from the website. So that's, you know, that's my current goal. And I think we could do even more than that, but that is my current goal because that is an enormous goal for the next 12 months, especially given the amount of stuff that we have going on at my actual job. So the, the kind of the cool thing, there's a really cool opportunity here. Um, and it could be looked at as an opportunity or a, an enormous challenge, which I think most challenges, that's, that's actually what they are, is they're either, we can either look at them as a challenge or an opportunity. Um, and that is that there's, there's one other guy in this space. Um, and I know him not, you know, not super well, but we've hopped on a phone call before and, and he, he is the go-to guy in the space of military travel hacking. Um, And the cool thing is, well, there's only one. There's only one other person in this space where there are a lot of industries, as you know, in the world of pest control too, there are a lot of other pest control guys. There are a lot of other dudes that have knocked on that door long before you have many, many times before you have. Uh, so this is a really cool opportunity. There's only one other guy. On the flip side, he is the guy. And so, so anyone who's, who's entering into that space, that's the guy they go to. Um, and of course, you know, there are a couple other like small groups or people here and there, but Really in the direction that I want to take this, there's him. And I don't want to— what I don't want to fall into the trap of is thinking it's either me or him, that it's a zero-sum game, because I believe that the pie can get big enough, the pie can grow, and there's plenty of room for everybody. But also as a motivation, like, I also want to be better. I want to do better. I want to, like, I want to become the guy, you know? And so that's, like, it's really inspiring. Motivating and terrifying at the same time. And I think that's what makes it an awesome opportunity. As Clay, I think it's Clay Christensen in the book Good to Great, where he talks about big, hairy, audacious goals, BHAGs. Like that's cool. Like doubling my income while we're out here, while I'm going to get deployed next year, while we have all this stuff like, like that is, you know, doubling my income through this side project is Like, that's a big Harry Audacious Goal, and I'm like super excited for it. And so there's been— I took this week off from work so I could spend time here with my family, and, um, we were able to get my mom from the airport and whatnot. And so like, it's been really fun, and it's also been really nice to have some time to be able to just come up here into my little, my little nook here in the attic and start chugging away and getting stuff done for, for the website. And I'm starting to realize just how much, uh, how much more ground I need to cover, just how much more work I need to do. Like, when you first get into a new, a new hobby or, or a new industry, new job, whatever, you kind of go into it thinking thinking, okay, well, you know, this is where, like, this is how, this is how tough it is to get into or to get good at this, this thing, whatever it is. But then once you start down that path, start learning a little bit more, you first start to realize that you are way further behind. Or rather that the people who have been successful are way further ahead than you. Like they have, there's a lot more work, a lot more ground to cover than you initially thought. And yeah, go ahead.

Sorry, go ahead. I don't mean to cut you off, but like a couple things. And, and I just, I think it's so cool that you're setting like the BHAGs. I actually haven't read that book yet.

But great book.

I think like, you're going to be forced to think differently. Because you can't just get you— I don't think you can just double your income by working harder, like you're gonna have to think smarter too. And they talk about the 80/20 principle, 80% of the actions that you do aren't that important. And there's like a 20% of the actions that you're doing right now that are actually generating more income or providing all the results. I think when you think big like that, you think you're BHAGs, you actually have to like get rid of the 80% of what you were doing prior and just focus all your time on that 20% that gives you those results. And the other thing I was just going to ask you, like, I think, like income is, I think it's just such a direct correlation to the value that we provide to other people. And so I guess my question to you is, in order to double your income, like, it's also like a reflection of who we're becoming too. In order to double your income and do that, like, what type of person do you think that you have to become? Because I'm curious, like, there's all these systems you can put in place. Yeah. What is the Jared that is making double, double income right now? What does that Jared look like? I'm curious.

I have, I have some friends for, we'll use a simple example because, you know, travel hacking, it's all related to credit cards. Um, I asked some of my friends, I say, hey, what, what credit card do you guys use like on a regular basis? Like when you, when you go, like when you go to the grocery store, when you go out to eat, like what, what's the one credit card that you're using? And one of my buddies said the Amex Platinum, which is like the most common credit card the military members have. And, uh, he's like, that's, it's the one card I have and I use it for everything. And with just the simple knowledge that, hey, there's this one other American Express card, it's called the Gold Card. If you used that one as your— you use that to spend all your money everywhere you go, you're going to get 4 times as many points, which means you can go on vacation, you know, 4 times as quickly. Like, like, that's it. You don't have to do anything else. Like, we're not, we're not going to change any of you. You're not going to become the, the, the earn and burn and churn and kind of travel like It's a simple thing. Like, if you just do this, hey, you could actually get to your goals like way, way faster. And you could, you could, you know, decompress from the military a little bit, a little bit more, maybe a little bit more comfortably. You could, you could do a lot more if you just, just this one switch. That's all it is. Um, like I, I want to be able to provide that kind of outsized, um, benefit to the people around me and to people who are, um, who are just looking for answers. Um, because there's, there's a lot of, there are a lot of perverse incentives out there, especially when you get into like the financial industry or, um, in, in the world of credit cards. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of incentive, financial incentive to, um, to push certain products, to push certain services, to do, to do certain things because it's going to earn a higher commission. Um, but the, the Jared that I want to be 12 months from now is one who can see the incentives, like to see the personal incentives for me and still provide the advice and the help to people that is in their best interest and to help them. And I believe that as a result of providing the right advice, the right information to people of, hey, actually, you like, I know you want to open this credit card. You need to open this one first. Like before you open that one, open this one first, because if you don't, then you're not going to be eligible for this, this, this, this, and this. Like, oh, oh, okay. Like you're leaving hundreds of dollars on the table or thousands of dollars on the table. Like, I just want to give you this just so you go in with your eyes wide open. I want to be able to provide that kind of advice to everybody. And I, I especially think that for military members, they're like this, this machine, the war machine sucks. It sucks a lot out of you. We don't realize just how much of a, how much of a commitment it is, how much of a sacrifice it is. On military members, because for example, like, you know, we work 12, 13-hour days every day. And then we're supposed to deploy for 6 months next year. And when you go and deploy, like you work like all the time and then you come home, you get a couple of weeks of vacation, then you go back to work. And what's wild about that is like you have, you spend, you know, 6 months or longer as history would dictate, right? You spend a whole bunch of time away from home. Away from your family, but then you don't, you don't get to come back and then spend the rest of that year with your family. You come back, you get a couple weeks, and then you're right back in it. You're right back in the 10, 12, 13-hour days, like no problem. Like, you know, this whole year we've been like, I barely get any time at home, barely any time with my daughter. And then like, we're preparing to just go, to go nuts basically all year next year, given all the exercises and everything that we've got going on. And so the, like, the least that we could do is tell, is to make sure our military members know, like, what is available to them, what benefits have been created specifically for them that they're not taking advantage of because they don't know. And how can we optimize the time that they do have at home, the leave that they take from work to go on vacation? How can we do that in a way that lets them do it more comfortably and more frequently? And I want to be able to provide, I mean, I love this stuff. It's like my favorite hobby. And so I want to be able to provide that kind of value and benefit to people. And I believe that if I can do that properly, then the monetary rewards will come in as a result. And so the money is the goal that I can set to know like, okay, here's the benchmark, but the goal is that much value and just using the money as a kind of an indicator or a thermometer, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head, right? Like, you just provide more value for people, and then things work out really well. Like, I— and you have a passion. I can hear you talk about it. You have a passion for helping people kind of reap those benefits, which is going to get you far, man. I'm excited to see where the whole thing goes. Sorry to cut you off. No, no, no worries. I liked the that you're setting like huge goals because yeah, you're going to have to think differently. Yeah. You literally can't think the same way and get somewhere else.

Yeah. Well, and I've thought I've opened, I don't know how many different websites and basically closed them all because I have like no idea what I'm just testing out ideas, experimenting here and there. And I've spent a lot of time just like kind of like writing things or working on this thing, working on stuff that doesn't move the needle. Working on that 80% of stuff that just doesn't, it's not going to do anything for you really. And so I've spent a lot of time this week. I spent a lot of time doing and creating, but I spent a lot of time like starting to work on stuff like, wait a minute, but this, this isn't actually in the right direction. Like this isn't, this isn't moving that this isn't part of that 20% that moves the needle, you know, 80% of the way. This is like this. No, I shouldn't. I don't need to worry about this. Not yet. Not yet. This can come when I like, these are, I have to do the one thing first. I have to do this thing first. This thing has to come first because it's foundation that we build all the other tools, all the other re— like everything's gonna build on top of this. And if I don't have this here, like, sure, I really, for example, I really wanna work on the podcast for, for Military Drop Rewards. I really wanna do that, but I can't have the podcast until I have the landing page, until I have the affiliate links, until I have the resources, until I have the emails, until I have a way to collect those. Like I, I have to have all of that first. Before we can go and do the fun stuff. Because that fun stuff, like, that's like a podcast in this case, is to provide information to people and then give them a place to go when they have questions. And if they don't have anywhere to go, well, then podcast is just something fun that you're doing. But you have to build the place for them to go first. And that's what I'm working on. And so I've had to fight that, you know, that temptation to go do the fun stuff first because I have to do the stuff that's actually the most important first.

Love it. I'm, I'm excited to see how it all goes, man. I think it's cool that you have like a map put up, but you have a, you have a roadmap. So you're not just kind of going at it aimlessly. Like you got your steps, you know what you need to do. So love it, dude. I, and I think you, I think you can just be the guy. I know there's a guy. But I think anybody who ever was the guy, they told themselves that they were the guy before they actually were. Before they were. That's how, I mean, in my sales stuff, like that's how I was. I was like, yeah, I'm the best. I'm the best. And back when I cared about that a ton, like eventually it became reality even.

Yeah.

I don't, this year that wasn't my priority. But when it was my priority, I just kept saying like, hey, I'm the best. I'm the best. I'm the best. Even though I wasn't. And eventually it was, or like Muhammad Ali. Like all these guys said that they were the best before they were the best and then they were. So it's kind of cool. I think that you'll be the guy. Um, you could just be the credit card guy. Like that could be your name. I don't know. Cause then you just automatically become the military credit card guy. So that's what I think you should say on your podcast.

I am the military credit card guy for military members. That's, that is who I am. Oh, well, I'm, uh, I'm still taking, I'm still, uh, I'm still taking, uh, submissions for, for opening, opening statements for the podcast for that. So that's, that's true. To add that into the, into the submissions. Okay, well, let's, let's go ahead and talk about Crucial Conversations, because if we don't, our listeners are going to kill us, because we just said we'd talk about it like for 2 different podcasts, and we pushed it off to talk about other things. So, uh, we both read, uh, we committed to reading a while back, uh, the book Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Svizzeler. Honestly, I thought only one person wrote this book, so, uh, there are four. So thank you to all four of them for writing this book. Um, but we, we had, we had this idea to have this conversation about this book— well, to read the book and then have a conversation about it— because, um, I had a, um, I had to work through a conflict at work, and all about, all about conversations. And so I brought up, hey, like, Austin, let's I have this thing that just happened. I'd like to talk to you about it. And then I can't remember, you said you wanted to read the book or you were already reading the book, or I can't remember what, how actually we decided on the book.

Yeah, I think at the time I had been, I had gotten the book because I felt like, I feel like that's any, if you're married at all, like, or if you have a job or if you are working with people, which pretty much everybody is like working with somebody or has a job, like it's good to read that and figure out how to communicate. And so I just started reading it cuz it was a, it was a book I got recommended for my degree. It was like exercise and wellness. And, uh, wow. Like really, I got a lot from it and it was so long since I finished it. Me and you had gone over and like talked about some of the main ideas, but I feel like how I have talked with my wife, uh, and some of my coworkers and some in some instances has gotten way better than, um, just because I've had some of those skills, like with books, man, I don't know if I remember 100%. I don't remember 100% of the stuff, but a lot of times it just moves the, moves the needle a little bit and how I kind of show up and how I view some, how I view like in this, in this circumstance conflict. Right. And so I was, I mean, we hadn't talked about this yet, but I'm actually curious. Okay, how did you handle the situation with these two guys? And then did you read the book and then realize, hey, I could have handled it this way? Or did you handle it the way you wanted to? Like, I mean, I never got to hear the end of that story, so I'm curious. Yeah.

Well, okay, I'll go ahead and lay the groundwork for the conversation. So I am, I'm responsible for a group of about 50 people at work and our job is like entirely the, the generation of aircraft day in and day out, like which jets are going to fly today, which ones aren't going to fly, which ones have to go through long-term repairs, you know, schedule— we have to schedule the plane down so it can get inspected for these things and blah, blah, blah. And so we manage that and we do it for just, just under 40 aircraft. And it's, it's, it's a lot. It's kind of a big deal. And one of the things that we do is this like super detailed inspection where the jet has to be down for like 2 weeks. Um, and then we, we have to sit down, we have a meeting, the people in charge of the inspection team, and then the people who are in charge of just like the scheduling of all the jets, they have to sit down and agree, these are the things we're going to do during these 2 weeks that this jet's going to be down. And then at the end of the inspection, they come out and they say, okay, here's the things that we accomplished. Here's what we didn't accomplish, why, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, and so we have this, uh, a meeting before and a meeting after. And we have been super busy. There's been a lot going on in the world and it has impacted the pace of our work. And we basically the, that, that post-meeting that you do after the inspection is over, that meeting got pushed a couple times. And there were a whole bunch of reasons for it. And I was, I work in the office next to the guy who's responsible just for the general planning of all of our jets. And the inspection team works in a different building. They work over in one of the hangars. So I'm with this guy kind of all the time, and I, I could see all the stuff that was getting thrown at him. You know, the commander comes, hey, I need you to do this, hey, I need you to do this. And so he's, and he's trying to, you know, get all this work done so he can have this meeting that he's asked to go to. And I could see that a lot was piling up very last minute, and he was having to make calls. He was gonna, he was having to call in favors and get people to cover for him so he could do this thing that someone asked him to do. And he made a phone call to the team, the inspection team, and the guy in charge of the inspection team, uh, you know, he answers the phone and the guy says, hey, um, can we do this meeting at 4:30 today? This is on a Friday. Uh, and the meeting was originally supposed to be for like that morning and then it got pushed to like 2 o'clock and then it got, and then he was calling at like 1:30 saying, hey, can we push the meeting to, you know, to 4:30? And inspection team lead, he goes, it's like 4:30 today. Like it's Friday. Like, can't this wait till Monday? And he's like, no, like, you know, we have to do this thing. We have to do this thing. Like, we can't push it out till Monday because of this, this, and this. Like, can you come in and have that meeting? And the other guy, the inspection team guy was like, he's like, man, like, people are trying to go home. We got all this going on. Like, can't we just, can't this just wait until Monday? I don't see what it's going to do to have this meeting today instead of Monday and blah, blah, blah. And The other guy was like, he's like, no, we're like, we need to do this today. Like, can you please just come in and do this? It's like today at 4:30. And the other guy goes, well, you can walk over to the commander's office and tell him that I'm breaking my 10-hour rule. Cause there's a rule that you can only work 10 hours in the day. Um, and the guy that the, the other guy, uh, that does the general planning, like when he heard that, he, he almost lost. I was in the room, it was on speakerphone. And so I was hearing the whole conversation and this guy. He puts in 12 to 14 hours every single day, like without fail, because he has got so much going on. And we've been trying to figure out ways to get him to work, like to be able to work fewer hours, to be able to, you know, be more efficient. And, um, cause there's just so much going on. Um, and, and so to hear that from the other guy, like, well, you can tell the commander that, uh, I'm going to, you know, like I'm going to break my 10-hour rule. This guy was like, are you freaking kidding me? You're worried about the 10-hour rule on this Friday? Like, I'm probably gonna be here till 7 o'clock tonight. Like that, you know? And, and so then words were exchanged and it was just, it just turned into this like ugly name-calling, pride, ego, shots under the belt. Like, I mean, just back and forth, back and forth. And then they hung up and they agreed to do the meeting. And I was standing in there and I was like, wow, man, that was like, what do I do? Um, and, and the reason, reason I felt that way, huge part is one, I get uncomfortable in conflict. Like when that, when there's contention, like it makes me really uncomfortable. Uh, I think because I'm I'm a pretty agreeable person by nature. Well, I'm also 27 and I've been in the world of maintenance, aircraft maintenance for like technically about a year, but functionally like 6 months. And these two dudes that are arguing are Master Sergeants. So that means they've been maintainers in the Air Force.

Like 30, 40 years old.

Yeah. So these dudes are, these dudes are both in their like mid-30s, um, maybe late 30s. I don't remember how old these guys are, but yeah, they've been in for 15, 17 years. Like, they've been in for a minute and they've been doing this, like, they've been doing this, the, the maintenance job on these jets. They've been doing this for a long time. And here I am, like, Mr. 6 months of experience, and I'm sitting here listening to these dudes yell at each other. And I'm like, okay, well, you're wrong here because this, and you are insinuating this when you do that. Like, This is not okay on both ends, but we had a lot going on that, that conversation ended and, you know, the phone hung up and then, and then the guy who shares office next to me, he goes, sorry, you had to hear that, sir. And then, um, and then, you know, they, he, you know, he left and had to handle some other stuff. The meeting was had later on and well, so at 4:30 they come and have the meeting and the guy, the inspection team lead ended up having someone else go to the meeting, but he came into the office. Anyway, and he came in to talk to me. He just sat down on the couch and we shut the door and he and I had a conversation and I was just trying to understand where was he coming from? What, like what's going on over there? Blah, blah, blah. Just trying to, trying to better understand what's, what he's seeing, right? Cause I, I could see everything that was going on in our office, like all the stuff that was being thrown at, um, the guy next to me, but I don't work in that other hangar. And so I, I didn't see what's going on over there.

So.

I was trying to get from him what was going on. Then the meeting ends. The guy who works next to me, he comes back in the room with a bunch of other people. Um, and they kind of see that me and this, the inspection team lead are talking and they're like, oh, sorry. Like, are we interrupting? And I was like, oh no, no, it's okay. And I told the guys like, hey, let's like, we can go finish the conversation like in the other room. So we were going to walk into another room, but the guy who works in the room next to me, who the inspection team lead had the argument with, he thought I was motioning to him to come with us. And so then, like, the two of us walked into the other room and then the, the, the planning guy, like, he comes into the room too. And I was like, oh, okay, well, here we are, the three of us in this room. Like, I wasn't planning on having this conversation right now, but we're all here. Let's have this conversation. So I, you know, like, I wasn't prepared for it at all. And I said, look, okay, guys, Uh, you know, inspection team lead, you said this earlier today and you were like, you were completely off base when you said this because this is what's happening over here. This is what this other guy's facing. This is what he's looking at. So when you, when you, when you said this thing, like it was actually a really deep insult because this, this, this, and this. And then I turned to the other guy and I said, look, I get it. I, we still don't know how to, how you can work fewer hours. Like we're still trying to figure that out because your job is nuts. But also, when you say this, you're insinuating that the worth of somebody, like, that somebody is only worth as much time as they put in here at the office. And we don't want people to live here. We want people to be with their families. And so, like, you can't say that this guy isn't worth as much because he puts in fewer hours. And this is, like, this is not a culture that we are going to instill over here. So, like, I need the two of you to understand that you're both wrong in these situations. Like, and this is why. And we need to be able to have this conversation. Okay. Like we are on the same team. You don't work for him and you don't work for him. Technically you both work for me, but like realistically we all work together. That's what it really is. So like, yeah, let's have this conversation. And some words were exchanged and then I left and then they shut the door behind them and they stayed in that room and had another conversation. And shortly thereafter, um, One of the guys actually got a new job, not, it wasn't fired or anything like that. He had applied for a new job well before this and he had gotten the job. And so he was now starting at the new job. And so now he's, he's moved over and he's, he's working in that other job. But for the, for the couple of weeks that in between that time, between the conversation, between when he went to his new job, we like, everything was amicable and everything was good. And like, we were able to work business as usual. And I have not revisited, I don't think it's worth revisiting that conversation with the the guy that works in the office next to me. Um, but that was a conversation that we had, and I did not know if I handled it well or not because it was wild. I said I was an agreeable person. I felt sick the rest of the day, like the entire evening. I came home, I just felt sick, like, like physically sick to my stomach because of how uncomfortable I was in that conversation. And I didn't know what to do with that. Like, what do you do with this discomfort? What do you do with, um, like when in this scenario? And, I had a conversation with Marisha and I told her, I was like, here's what happened. These are all the things, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just like laid it all out for her. And I said, I don't know if I handled that right. And I don't know what else I would've, I could've done or I should've done and this, that, and the other. And she said, you know, like they don't, they don't pay you to be, um, the best maintenance technician out there. Like, that's not your job. That's not why they pay you. They pay you to manage people and programs. And even though these two dudes have been in the Air Force way longer than you have, your job is to manage these people. So if they are not able to work together, that falls on— that falls on you. So you need to be able to have these conversations. So I think you did exactly what you need to do, and Or you were able to do exactly what you needed to do. So, um, I felt like, okay, well, I think, like, I think she might be right there. And I was, I was able to then go and have conversations with some of my other, um, like my, my commander and whatnot, told him the kind of the scenario and was able to get some like coaching, coaching through it. But, um, that was what happened. And so I want to, I want to hear your thoughts on the scenario.

Um, So I think with, with that, like, I don't, I've never been, I've never had to like manage a conflict between two people. A lot of the conflicts that I've had to manage were just between like my wife and I, right? Like trying to figure that out between the two of us. Um, but when it comes to that, like, I think it's good for people to see like the full scope of what's going on. I think a lot of the problems I have been not necessarily like, you know, in a crazy, uh, I've not been in like an uncontrollable conflict with people before, uh, in my workspace, but there have been times where I get frustrated with people and I'm like, hey, like, this is wrong. I start, I start getting upset, like, and I'll go to the big boss and stuff like that. And then once I find out more of the issue, I'm like, oh, this is why that person acted that way. So I think it's important, like with what you did, is I don't know if people like to be told they're wrong. But I do think, I do think people appreciate when they actually have more of a scope of like, okay, this is what's going on in this person's life. And this is why they're making some of those decisions. Ideally, those two people can kind of talk it out. Sounds like they did. But I think, I think you're right. Your wife's right, in the sense that You are being paid to like manage people. And like, it is kind of cool that you're not getting paid necessarily for your expertise in some of this aircraft, because I don't know if you'd agree with me, but a lot of the guys probably know more than you about the aircraft and everything. Like if they've been doing it for 17 years.

Yes.

Hands down. Absolutely. Yeah. Like you're being paid, the world is in a shortage of leaders. And I think people that can resolve conflicts, I think it's interesting that like conflict. Will make you feel uncomfortable. I think it's— well, no, I think everybody's like that. Maybe people who are more likely to start conflict, they don't— it doesn't bother them as much. So, or maybe that's how they grew up. Like, I can think in my family, like, we actually didn't start a lot of fights with each other, like with my mom and my sisters, like, we don't fight a whole lot because we don't like to bring up conflict. It's just not something that we do. But then on my, on my stepmom's side, my stepmom was a lawyer. Okay, well, like, there was definitely more conflict in my house growing up because there was more arguing. And, you know, I think Kaya is probably Kaya, and I can't speak for her, but like, Kaya's not afraid to start something and like, you know, argue. And neither am I actually. I think from doing door-to-door, like, conflict or awkwardness doesn't bother me as much anymore. So I think that's one of the things that Kaya and I can work on is just communicating. Because I don't think either of us is afraid to kind of go in and like, hey, you know, you did this this way, it bothered me. But I think recently, and just to share a little bit something on my end, like to talk about like, yeah, I have to figure out how to solve conflict with my wife. Like recently I've, I realized I can do a better job at like listening to my wife as opposed to just, you know, just coming up with a solution right away and cutting her off. Um, my brain. Is wired to where if I hear a problem, I'm like, this is— is it worth it? Is this even worth talking about? And for me, sometimes I'm like, this is not even worth listening to, just drop it. I have a solution. Here it is. We're done. And I think if you're a wife, and that's your husband, kind of sound like a jerk. Which I had some solid feedback last weekend, when that was an issue, right? Like, So, I mean, to go more granular, um, it was about, you know, Kaya's taking care of our kids all day, our kid all day while I'm working all summer. And in my mind, I'm like, oh cool, well, that's what your job is. Like, do your job. Like, uh, that's while I'm working. And I wanted to go see, we went, my buddy and I went to go see Theo Von last weekend. And, um, And I was like, I'm going to hire a babysitter. And in my mind, it was like, it was so simple to hire a babysitter, like, drop it. I don't want to hear that you like watch the kids all the time. I hired a babysitter, we're done. But for my wife, it meant a lot for me to like listen to her and hear how she's like actually done a ton to take care of our daughter. And it's not easy to take care of Georgia. Um, so I think I got some solid advice from one of my best buddies, like Jeremy. And he told me, like, if there's ever like a conflict in the house, to be the first one to apologize. And then right afterwards, try to find a couple different ways to serve your wife. Like, not right away, but try to find a couple different ways to serve your wife in the different love languages that they appreciate. So like, after we had that big blowup, I just like went upstairs, rubbed my wife's feet. And I just said, hey, I'm not gonna say anything. I'm just gonna listen. Because I obviously need to work on that. Like, even I'm like, I'm being sincere, not being smart aleck. I'm just gonna sit here and listen to you. Because I need to be better there. But yeah, and I don't know that it's necessarily healthy where it's like, you know, me and you saw some pretty gnarly situations in Chile.. And I think sometimes I really do think that a lot of our issues are first world problems. And that's not necessarily a great attitude to have when you hear your wife like talking about some of the things that they're dealing with. In my mind, I'm like, this is not an issue, right? Like this is, this is like a blessing that you even get to talk about this stuff. And so, you know, you come across as a jerk if you don't actually care, right? Like Yeah, I don't know, like, after seeing some of the conditions that I saw people living in, in Chile, I think I've almost become numb to like, okay, but that's not a problem, right?

So yeah.

I think reading the book has kind of helped me maybe take a step back, like, probably be a little bit more like, a little bit more likely to like, acknowledge that something's going on, connect with my wife emotionally, like, Actually slow down instead of just like butting in, like shutting up, shutting down the conversation. Cuz that's like not healthy. That's not fun for my wife at all.

Yeah.

So that's kind of where I'm at right now is like trying to like slow down a little bit as opposed to just like shutting it down right away. Yeah. So, um, the, the point there was like, yeah, apologize, like serve your wife and then just, I think the biggest thing is just ask how you can better show up. And then when you're getting that criticism or that, because you do need it, like not to take it all personally, because where I feel like arguments have kind of gotten out of hand in my marriage is like when I am, when I'm, when I'm getting that feedback on what I need to be doing to better show up as a husband. And then I then argue about that, like, no, you're wrong here. So the argument has completely changed to a different argument. And I'm sure like, as I'm talking about this, people can relate to it. Um, because a lot of these themes are not, they're not, it's not just one marriage that has these issues. Like everybody kind of goes through this stuff when you're learning how to be married. So just some feedback there, like instead of trying to be right, like seek to like understand, do not seek to be understood. That's, I think, one of the biggest lessons. Yeah.

Uh, Jordan Peterson talks a lot about this. Um, If like you talk about your, your marriage, right? If you win an argument in your marriage, you lost. Like, you actually lost the argument because the fact that it turns into a win-lose scenario means that you've, you've both lost, really. And I mean, but like, okay, you won, you won the argument, you were right. Like, now you're left with the loser. Now you have to go to bed next to the loser. Like, what Like that, you know, what, what kind of a world do you want? Is, is that, is it, in what world is that what you want? Like, that's not actually what you want. That might be what you want right now, but that's not what you're going to want when you're going to bed. Like, going to bed like, I am, I am right and all is good. And this is, this is my loser wife next to me. Yeah. Right. Like, no, it's, it's the two of you on the same team. And, um, he, he talks about how in arguments with his wife, if they kind of reached an impasse, they would, they would, you know, physically remove themselves to another room each to to their own room for a time, however long needed, and they would sit and think. And they promised that, you know, when we come to an impasse, we will go and think about how we contributed to this, how we got our— like, how we contributed to us getting to this point where we're at an impasse right now. And, you know, you can go back to your room and ruminate on, okay, well, they did this, and they did this, and they did this, and I was right because I told them it was going to happen if they did this, and they did it anyway, and blah, blah, blah. They were 95% at fault, the other person. But maybe, just maybe, I contributed 5% to this. Maybe I responded in a "told you so"-like manner, and that sparked a rude comment afterwards, and that made her, you know, flip the anger switch, or, you know, whatever it was. But there's probably a chance that I contributed 5% to us getting here. So maybe when we come back together to have the conversation, I should lead off with, okay, here's what I did. Here's what I think I did that contributed to this. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I did this. And that opens the door to the further conversation. Now, Marsha and I don't, we don't have to physically remove ourselves in that way. But that is the, that is the mindset that we, we have to have. And that is, Okay, I think I'm right. I still believe that I am entirely right in this scenario, but I think I did this thing wrong and I'm sorry for it because it's caused us to be at this point of contention. And that's an invitation to the other person to maybe recognize where they've been at fault too. And you can then come together and like actually have a conversation together on the same team.

That's interesting. I've never had like, I've, if I am open to understanding instead of like trying to just be right, and I have that perspective of okay, like maybe I had something to do with this too. And I lead with an apology. Like it's very rare that the conversation does a downward spiral after that. It usually opens up to some sort of resolution or understanding. It's not always the easiest to be the first person to say sorry either, like that no one likes to race to that because we don't want to like give up. And I think that's our inner and inward, like, inward desire to be right about things. Which, you know, if you can see the bigger picture, like you said, like, it's not about being right. It's about, like, getting to a resolution and getting to a common goal where you're working together. Like, those guys, you're on the same team. And sometimes we forget that we're on the same team. And I think that's where, you know, when, when Kai and I have gotten into, you know, fights before, it's like, we forget that we're on the same team. I think it's a good reminder sometimes to just say, hey, we're on the same team, like, we need to resolve this, like, What do we want to work? A lot of our methods to like prove ourselves right, like you said prior, a lot of our methods to prove ourselves right, actually make the situation way worse. Not only because you're going to bed with a loser, but like, nothing really comes out of being right about something.

Well, and do you want to be right all the time? Like, do you really want to be right all the time?

No. I don't know if you need to be right all the time. What, where does that desire come from is what I wonder is like, I think it's a fear. I think it's an ego thing. Like we just, I don't know exactly where it comes from to want to be right all the time. Um, because I've felt it before and I think it's something that I have to be, I think it's, it's better to be under, it's better to understand. And I think that's what we talk about, like the stating, you know, there's an acronym state. Okay, STATE stands for share the facts, tell your story, ask for others' paths, talk tentatively, and encourage testing. So sharing your facts, like, hey, this is what happened, telling your story, this is how I felt about it. Asking for others' paths might be like, might be asking, hey, how did you feel in this situation? And encourage testing, like, hey, this is how, this is what I felt from, from a result of all of this. Am I wrong? Like, can you give me more insight? And all of those talking points, they're not jumping to a conclusion. They're just sharing a fact and sharing how you felt and then opening it up for more dialogue so that more conversation can be had. Um, yeah, it's not always easy either, cuz in that whole time too, I think in the book talks about this as well, is like throughout the conversation, make sure that you aren't taking things personally, and that you are like a safe place for somebody to talk to. Just, just some of the things that I got from the book was, you know, get, like you said, you talked about the pool of understanding. But throughout that, throughout that conversation, is the motive still the motive? Like, from once you start talking, is the motive still the same motive throughout the middle of the conversation, because a lot of times it changes from, hey, you know, this, it changes from one topic to just wanting to be right. And I have found myself arguing about something completely different about whether or not something happened or whether it did happen. And it's like, no, no, no, like, that's, this is a, this is a complete tangent off a rabbit hole. Like, we need to be talking about what actually is the issue at hand, right? Yeah.

So, um, well, I, I think so, so one of the, one of the reasons I think Marisha and I have been able to, um, overcome fairly, fairly easily, uh, the, some of the, you know, disputes that we've had are because the, the way that we approach it follows kind of this this path, which is, uh, you know, sharing, starting with, uh, sharing your facts and then telling your story. So, um, that looks like, hey, earlier you said this, and not gonna lie, it kind of made me feel upset because, you know, this, this happened, and because this, or because I am insecure about this, whatever. Like, you did this thing and it made me feel this way. Let's talk about it. Um, and kind of, you know, pose, opening the, opening the floor for the, the other person to, to to talk about what they're seeing. And the reason I think that's so important is because you are not putting, you are not, you are not accusing the other person.

Yeah.

You are saying, you are stating your facts. This is what happened. And then this is the set of emotions that I tied to it at the time. Now, maybe some of my emotions are not like they weren't valid. I shouldn't have felt that way. Like I was in the wrong, but you know, maybe it's because I didn't eat or because I was tired because whatever, this is how it made me feel. Feel. So what are we going to do about that? Like, is it, do I need to adjust the way that I respond to certain things, or could you have done something differently? Or, and that, that usually the way it works is, you know, hey, you did this thing, it made me feel this way. And then the other person responds with, I'm so sorry I made you feel that way. I didn't realize that it was going to impact you that way because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it just, it just opens the floor to dialogue. And it's usually Um, like a lack of, just a lack of knowledge or lack of, like, I, I just didn't know. I had no idea that that's, that it, that it came across that way. Sorry about that. Um, and I've learned in the 3 and 3 years and some change that we've been married that, um, we, like, we really were raised in, you know, with a lot of similarities in terms of values and beliefs, but, um, just very differently in terms of communication, um, both between you know, like us and our parents and then us and our siblings. And it's caused us to both just to see the world differently. And that's a fantastic thing. Thank the heavens that she doesn't see the world exactly the way that I do.

Um, that'd be boring, man. Yeah, exactly. Right? Like if you married somebody that was a mirror image of yourself, like, yeah, there's no, there's no, like, there's nothing being brought to the table, right?

Yeah. It really, what, what it, what it usually boils down to is I am acting in this world based on these assumptions. You are acting in this world based on these assumptions. And sometimes our assumption, like we're assuming different things and we just have to realize that like we were just both acting under different information. So let's come together. The Pool of Knowledge, uh, or the Pool of Understanding in the book, what they're talking about is when you come to the table to have a discussion, right? Not literally at a table, not always, but, um, like if you withhold information, you're like probing the other person, trying to get them to guess what's inside your head. You're not contributing. To the conversation. You're making it harder to have a conversation. You're making it harder to overcome the obstacles there. What you need to be doing is providing information, sharing the facts and telling your story, um, and contributing that to this— like, imagine you're all like sitting around like a pool, like a pool of understanding, so that everyone can from the outside look at what's in the pool and work with that and then come to a conclusion instead of guarding all of your, uh, your opinions, your thoughts, whatever, like guarding them on your side and keeping them hidden like you're playing a game of cards or something. Like, You come to a conversation, we need to be able to understand each other's motives, and the only way to get to someone's motives is to ask questions and to come together and have this, you know, kind of shared set of ideas. At least, can we all agree on this? Can we all agree that these are like— that this is what we're— this is what's true and what's not true? And then from there, let's have a conversation.

I really like that a lot, man. I think that those, those skills, like, and they're not, it's not like you read this book and then you instantly become like a master of conflict resolution. Like you really do have to practice it. And I think you have to be like, self-awareness is just such a big key with any hard conversation. Yeah. Like, are you aware of when the human mind is like taken over by the reptilian mind. Like, basically, are you aware of when, you know, you go from logic to just pure rage? You know, there's that part of your brain that just takes over where it's like survival. And maybe the need to want to be right is tied up with that part of our brain where it's, you know, we just go full emotion and you can't slow down. I think With some of these situations, it's so important to be aware of where you're at. And then, dude, I have had times where I need to just take a step away from a conversation and then come back into it. And it's way better to just like calm things down. But I like that, man. Like just asking in order to understand someone's motives, it's way better to just ask questions and open up dialogue instead of running stories through our heads, right? One of the things that I thought was interesting is like, yeah, we are all operating from the experiences and the perspectives and the stories that we tell ourselves. It's like literally, you are a product of kind of who you hang out with and like, your situations that you grew up with. But like, dude, and it kind of goes back to politically nowadays, like people have different ideas, because of their environments and because of who they're with and because of the families that they were raised in. Basically, if someone's like full-blown right side politically, and if you said, hey, if you grew up in this household out in like San Francisco, California, like you probably would grow up and be pretty liberal or vice versa, like somebody that grew up in Portland or, you know, Oregon or something like that. And you said, hey, if you grew up in this family out in Texas, you would, you would probably be different person. Austin, like, and I fully believe that. I do believe that we are just a— we are a product of our perspective. And so I think it's good to broaden your perspective to get better understanding with other people. Just because somebody thinks something differently than you, it doesn't mean that they are the enemy. And I think that's— I think that's a message that has been propagated through our society right now, that if someone thinks differently than you, they are a threat to you, which is— it's far from the truth, man. There's a lot more I think we have in common than what we have that is different. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

So it's really cool to think about that. I think that's the same with it, like, and with our nation right now, a lot of it's divided politically. I think when it comes to just marriages too, there's a lot more in common than we, than we think. Like when there is a conflict, I think in every single marriage, everybody wants to be happy. Everybody wants to feel loved and everybody wants to feel like respected. So there is so much common ground there that if you can just focus on that common ground instead of some of the differences that you have, like I think you have a really solid foundation to work with. But, um, really interesting, man, to think about it. It's what you, what did you say? Everybody operates from their perspective or their what they believe to be true, right?

Yeah. I mean, you're operating on a whole bunch of assumptions that you have been picking up in life along the way, whether they've been taught to you explicitly or you've just, you've seen them in the movies, you've seen them on ads, you've seen them in the locker room or wherever. That's just, you just assume that this is the way that everyone is. You assume that this is the way you ought to do this thing. And it turns out actually, like washing the dishes, there are a lot of ways to wash the dishes. That's something I learned in Chile. The number of, like, when I was helping people, like, do their dishes, multiple times someone was like, why don't you wash the dishes like that? Like, this is how we wash the dishes. And, you know, I mean, something so simple as that, but like, I didn't know there were so many different ways you could wash the dishes. I had no idea. Like, and if there are a bunch of different ways you could wash the dishes, there are a bunch of different ways you could do all sorts of things.

Um, yeah.

And I, I mean, that's why I love traveling so much, that you get the opportunity to see other people live live so differently than you do, and yet they are living and loving life. And like, they have their challenges and obstacles, but man, we are— you're totally right. We are so much more like all the other people in this world than we are different.

Our invite is for you, for all of our listeners here, is to do the same thing we did, like to read this book and to implement a crucial conversation that you need to have with a loved one or a friend or a coworker. I think the situations always get better after you have a conversation, if approached the right way, right? If you go in seeking for understanding, seeking to find some common ground, to find a resolution without just trying to be right. I mean, there's so much good that can come out of like seeking for understanding that I have seen, whether it just be work or within my marriage, like that's when the actual healing happens and the actual, like, good results come out of these conversations. So I don't know, you have anything to say on that, Jerry?

Yeah, um, and the authors define crucial conversations as ones where, uh, where emotions run high and where the stakes are high. Um, I think there was another, uh, another thing that classified a conversation as crucial, but, um, just, I mean, if you think about it, like, if it makes you slightly uncomfortable or if you feel extra emotional in the conversation, it's probably a crucial one. And yeah, I would argue that, you know, read the book and you start looking for those conversations. Like which conversation you're having do you think are ones where you should probably start asking like, hey, what happened and how did that make you feel? Like what happened? How did that make me feel? And approach it in that more humble way. I mean, worst case scenario, you were wrong. That's it. Like most of the time you're not going to die because you were wrong. So like, and what happens when you're wrong? You find out the right answer and then you're right. Like that's, that's how it works. You know, once you're wrong, you just get, you just got smarter. You just got a little bit better of an understanding on how the world works. And now you can move forward. Like that's, that's the only way you can move forward is failure. So, you know, might as well go and be wrong and figure it out. Like it's, it's, I mean, it can feel it's especially when And the conversations are highly emotional. Like, no one wants to look like an idiot. No one wants to be embarrassed. No one wants to look like they don't know what's going on or they don't know what they're doing. But all you have to do is do it once and then now you know what you're doing. Now you know what's going on. Now you know a little bit more and you can do it right the next time.

I love it, man. Well, stay tuned. We will be releasing December's episode here soon with, uh, the new topic that we're going to be talking about. And appreciate you guys listening and happy we could have this conversation that we have been planning for, for a couple months now. Appreciate all you guys. Please be sure to share this with anybody that you think you would benefit. I think really this, this all ties into working, work, anybody you know that has a job or is married or has a relationship or works with people. And that's everybody. But like share it with somebody you think could benefit from this so that we can share this message and, and, and get people to be more aware of where they are in their conversations and help them get the tools they need to resolve conflicts when stakes are high. So please share this episode on your social media or share the link with a friend, and we will look forward to being with you guys next month.

Yeah, Austin Maser and I have The reason we wanted to record these conversations was because they were opportunities for us to learn together, to talk about things that normally I think would make us uncomfortable talking with other people, but getting to kind of peel back those layers, drop our defenses and say, hey, let's have a conversation about this. Let's learn some more.

Let's—

what do you think? How do you— do you think I responded the right way? Do you think what I did the wrong way? And Austin's challenged me plenty of times on my way of thinking and like, hey, you should dream bigger. Hey, you should like, you know, you're kind of, you're kind of looking at this pretty small-minded and it's been incredibly helpful. So definitely please leave a 5-star rating and a review and share this with somebody who, who could really use it. A few years ago, my brother shared a podcast episode with me about designing your life and it completely changed the trajectory of my life and I am so grateful for that. And honestly, you could have that same impact on somebody else. All you have to do is share, share the message. So thanks everybody. And Austin, I will catch you later, brother.