The Power of Coaching | Interview with Chris Pierce | Ep. 20

If you only try the one thing and it sucks and you stop there, all you're gonna have is the story of that sucked, it was painful, it hurt, I was betrayed, it sucked, and now I have this view of everyone else and everything else as, as negative and depressing and against me. But if you get out there and you do it again and you try it again, I think it's, I think the result is gonna be completely like a 180-degree flip. Welcome to The Rising Tribe. I'm Jared.

And I'm Austin.

And our goal is to inspire young men to build strong families and discover their potential as men, husbands, and fathers.

And we'll do this by having authentic conversations about faith, family, health, and business as we strive to level up our lives and the lives around us. Everybody, welcome to our April episode with our guest, Chris Pearce. This is one I was— this is one I'm really excited for. Chris is my coach in The Collective, the group that I joined this year. And wow, like we'll end up talking about that tonight. But he is just a really cool guy, very happy, genuine, enthusiastic person. And I really have enjoyed my time with him at the retreat. I've enjoyed to see, I've enjoyed seeing how he's grown. In his business and coaching. And he's got a really cool story. He specializes in like sports performance and mental training. He's worked with military, he's worked with surfers on mental coaching. And hopefully I'm saying that the right way, the correct term for that. But like, he's, he's awesome. Really grateful to have him as a coach this summer. And I'm really excited. I know today we get to talk to him on the podcast, but I'm excited to get to know him more as I work with him throughout the summer. It's really an awesome opportunity to have you on here, Chris. Thank you for being here. Hopefully the introduction does it, uh, did you justice, right?

So, well, and, uh, yo, I feel honored to be here.

And I want to jump in real quick. Um, I mean, so I, to be honest, when, uh, when we were setting up this phone call, I was thinking like, dude, based on everything Austin says, Chris must be like kind of intense and just, you know, like, go, go, go, you can do it, you know, just like this, just this really go-get-'em and intensity about him. And in the 5 minutes that we've been on this phone call, all I felt is just peace and calm and just like, like, your, your presence is, is really calming. So, uh, thank you for that. And I'm, I'm really excited to get to hear more, uh, more about your story and, and everything that we've got lined up. So, Austin, what are, what are the first questions we want to hit?

So Chris, as far as, um, you are, you are a husband and a father. Um, I want to know what brings you like the most fulfillment in your life right now. Um, whether it be in family life and in work or, or all of the above, like what, what is your, I think we're kind of starting out with like a big defining question right now, but like, what is kind of your mission right now in your life? I know it's a big question, but yeah, let's start with that.

Well, starting with the easy ones, Austin.

Yeah, I mean, I think we all have a lot going on. Um, you know, as a kid, I, my, my whole life was just planning up to like my mission, like, like, okay, I'm going to graduate high school, go on a mission. And that was like all that I'd thought of. Anything beyond that was like one day I want to be a dad. And as far as like career, anything like that, I had no idea. You know, and, you know, I think a lot of people kind of have this vision of what they want to be and who they want to become and career-wise and all that. And I just feel like I fumbled my way into, you know, where I am now. But the one constant was always that I wanted to be a dad. You know, I, you know, since I was a little kid, it just seemed like a fun thing. And I think part of that probably has to do with my own father being really awesome, really engaged and willing to put work down to come and join us. And so I guess to answer that question, yes, I have career goals and pursuits and ambitions, but I think at the end of the day, I've got two teenage boys that I just love spending time with, you know, and then my 10-year-old daughter you know, tucking her in each night and she always wants me to, you know, come climb in bed. And it's those little things, you know, spending time with them that I think I really look forward to. So maybe it's not that ambitious as far as like a goal with kids, but just to make sure that I spend that time and connect with them.

We had one of my biggest mentors on this show as one of our first guests. And he talked about the same thing. He just said like the biggest thing in his life is just being a dad and like, and for him specifically is like, I just want to make sure my, my, my kids go back to Heavenly Father, like really just teaches, teach them the right way how to live life. But one of the things that stood out to me when you said that is like those little moments where your kids like cuddle up with you or when you put them to bed, like those hit me like waves now. Uh, the other day I had the guys over for Correlation and my daughter, we're at my house and my daughter ran up to me and she's like, Dad, Daddy, daddy, dad, dad. And I was like, what? What do you want? I'm doing a correlation. I just picked her up. She goes, I love you. And I just started crying. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so tender. But well, dude, so you live right now, you live with your family in Hawaii. What brought you out to Hawaii? And tell us, is it all it's cracked up to be? Is Hawaii the place? Is it?

And, you know, how long have you been there and where did you live before Hawaii?

So I grew up in San Diego, um, and I say San Diego because I grew up in a small town like Northeast County San Diego that nobody knows, a little town called Ramona. And originally, and, and I grew up surfing, you know, even though it was an hour away from the ocean. And, and so of course I went to school at BYU-Hawaii, you know, rather than, you know, BYU-Provo or something. And I think we just loved it, you know, just kind of fell in love with the place, fell in love with the culture. I mean, I grew up with just a lot of similar people. And so seeing a lot more diversity was really cool. And, you know, and then left for grad school and then came right back. And so originally moved out here in 2005 and left for grad school. And then I left for a year with them, doing work with the military as well. But I don't know, people come and go. It's one of those places that you kind of live in a very small bubble. And if you love that bubble, then you never want to leave it. And you're just like so happy. Uh, but there's a lot of people that show up for a year or two and then they're just like, okay, there's only so much to do, you know, like if people do not love the water and there's kind of just like surfing, diving, and hiking. And some people get over that, you know? And so then it gets old fast. Um, but we love it. I mean, we love, we love the little bubble that we live in. It's, it's, it's kind of weird because it's like a small community that millions of people like travel to every year. So there's always like a ton of people, but like most of them don't live here. Um, so, but as far as like raising kids, such a great place. Like the kids spend so much time. Outside and being active. Um, and it's just, I don't know, I, I feel like the schools, you know, you know all the teachers and it's just a lot smaller than a lot of other places. And so we really like that. And I think it kind of gives me that hometown feel, like what I grew up with. Uh, but much closer to the ocean. So that's a, a perk.

So when you were at When you were at BYU, uh, did— is— what did you study? And, and is what you studied what got you into working with the military? And, you know, like the, the mental performance and all that?

Yeah, so my undergrad degree was kind of weird. I bounced around. I was like business, I was pre-med, I was like psychology. I ended up finally getting my degree because they're like, you have too many credits, but this one is the closest. Like, so you got to take these like few more classes and then you're done. Because I was like, had so many credits because I just didn't know what I wanted to do. So I was just bouncing all over the place. And, and so I ended up with exercise science, um, and a degree and a minor in psychology. And then when I went to get my master's, I still didn't know what I wanted to do. So it was like kinesiology, but what does that mean? You know, it could be one of a dozen things. And so, um, that first semester I took a class that just kind of fit my schedule that sounded cool. Um, and it was called Philosophy of Movement. And that was my first introduction into sports psychology. And so the teacher was a guy named Ken Ravizza who was like this world-renowned— like, I had no idea who the guy was. I'm like, philosophy of movement, what the heck does that mean? And he, um, anyway, so he had worked with professional baseball, uh, Olympians, all these things, and just like an amazing guy. And I was like, I want to do what you do. And so, um, that's what got me, you know, the job with the military and working with surfers and and working with sales guys.

So, well, it's been cool to see right now you're, you're in the Collective with, you know, you're one of the, you're one of the coaches in the Collective and that is like such a cool group that you and, and Corey have created. It's, it was really special. So Jared, I don't even think we've talked about this on the podcast yet.

No. So why don't you go ahead and break it down? Like what is the Collective and, How'd you get involved in it?

Yeah, so for the last like 3 years, for the last 2 or 3 years, like I knew that Corey was a coach. And, and that's who Chris is partnered with now in The Collective. And every year I was like, nah, it's all good. Like, I don't, I almost like signed up to coach with Corey when he was just doing his individual coaching program. And then didn't work out. I stayed with my old coach, who maybe we'll have on here one day, super cool guy, Alex Cornwall. But I never ended up working with Corey until like they did this whole thing with the collective. And I'm like, whoa, Chris is here. And they're gonna do like this whole, they're gonna do retreats, and they're gonna do group phone calls. And it's going to be all about like being vulnerable and being open and like actually being real. And I kind of— Corey hit me up and was like, hey, you should be a part of this thing. And I said, okay, like, I guess we'll do it. And I, I, I just committed with him on the phone, you know, he, he, he got me sold on it. And I was like, this, let's go. This sounds exciting. I'd get to work with Chris, like as a member of the collective, I get 12, like one-on-one phone calls and those can be with Chris or with Cory. Um, we did, we just finished one of our in-person retreats of the two that we'll have. We do like Tuesday group calls. Um, And it's just such a cool experience because now I have like, it's a 50-man group. And now I have like 50 friends that I would have never known. And all of us know each other really, really well. Like all walls came down at that retreat. Everybody was just, they, we talked about taking the mask off and just being open about what we were struggling with and what we were going through. And it's so cool to see like, not everybody's got it figured out. We're all husband— like, a lot of us there were husbands, fathers, were struggling with, you know, providing or like self-limiting beliefs. And the three pillars of the collective are belief, ownership, and authenticity. Hopefully I got that right. Um, yep. And so like with, with Chris being there too, like it was really cool to get to know you better. Because that's one of the first times I've actually got to talk with you more. But man, like, I, I think it's hard to explain it without having been there too. Like, it was, it was such a cool experience between speakers and breathwork. And Chris led us through an exercise of like holding our breath to like, just become more comfortable with things that made us feel uncomfortable, right? Like it wasn't a competition on who could hold their breath, although some dudes were holding it for like 3 minutes. It was nuts.

Yeah.

But, but Chris, when it comes to coaching guys, like what is, why does that, why does that excite you so much? Like what is, tell us a little bit about your, your, with you coaching specifically sales guys as of recently, the last, what is it, last 2 or 3 years that you've been doing that?

Yeah, I started in 2020. It's cool to see people address the hard things in their lives. But yet so many people, people want to address fake hard stuff. You know, like there's so much out there where I don't know, people do hard stuff to get used to hard stuff. But a lot of it is to hide from the actual hard stuff that they're going through. And I think that's a big part of what The Collective is, is like to really allow people to feel safe and trusted with the real stuff that they're going through. And it's interesting because it's all sales, guys, but yet how much of it has to do with sales, right? It's all of the hard things. That people are going through on like this deep, deep level that is stopping them from being able to achieve their goals or stopping them from even pursuing their goals and reaching their potential. And so much of it, I mean, the goal is associated with sales, but what's stopping them has to do with other insecurities, fears, doubts, and things like that. And so providing that safe space and just allowing people to open up like they never have before, it just, it, it, it provides so much opportunity for growth, right? You were talking about facing limiting beliefs, and a lot of times they don't even know that they have them. And so guiding people through that opening people's eyes to things that they haven't ever seen before. I think one, it feels good, you know, like, like to be on the coaching side and see somebody like do things that they didn't think they could do. Right? Even as simple as the breath hold exercise, you know, teaching you about breath hold, understanding what it— what is actually going on physiologically, knowing that it's uncomfortable, but it's not dangerous. And then pushing yourself. Like, it was cool to see the progress that could be made in something that really doesn't matter, right? Holding your breath, but to see the impact that that had. And then, and then asking the question of like, okay, what are other areas that do matter where the only way that you can push yourself and overcome is through stepping into some, some deep levels of discomfort or some dark areas of your life that you've been trying to hide by doing all this other, other stuff. Um, so I mean, and I get so much fulfillment out of that. Um, but it's awesome to just connect with people. Like people that are trying to be better, people who are trying to improve. It's such a joy, you know, to work with people like that, that realize that like, okay, I'm not perfect. There's something I can do about it. And it's just, it's just awesome to work with people that have that, that mindset of, of growth and development.

I think that's really awesome, uh, because the, we as people learn, we learn so much better from stories than we do from facts or from instructions. And so to give people a story, a narrative, an exercise, something like this where they can take this lesson and attach it to an event, an experience that they had so that forever they can remember the feelings that they felt and the thoughts that were going through their head at the time, because it's— that is what like really reaches into our souls and teaches us. It's not just that, well, don't forget, you know, you got to make sure that on Thursday night you have date night with your wife. Why is that? Where, like, where does that come from? How am I— how are you going to get me to connect with that on, on an emotional and on a spiritual level to help me make that change? So I think that's awesome. Austin, it looked like you're about to say something.

I was just, I was thinking, because Chris, you, you said that, especially in the sales world, like you've got all of us doing, and we did that we did cold plunges, and we did sauna, and we all did all that. But it's, it's like, the thing in the sales world, and I think it's awesome. We did it. But I never really thought that one of the reasons that could be the thing is it's just a way to just confront something else that's difficult. As opposed to actually looking your trials and looking your struggles and past experiences in the eye. Because, you know, I always talk about like, I love doing crazy stuff. Like, that's hence the burpees every day. Like, I really, really like that. And Chris, you've joined us for— are you still doing 140? You did 100. You're doing 100 a day, right?

Well, okay, so I was doing the 140 and then this chest thing has gotten me and I, I like, so I've paused, but because I literally can't breathe for the rest of the day. So I am, I'm actually seeing the doctor this week because this thing has, it comes and goes and it's just like so gnarly, but it started messing with me so bad. So I'm excited to get back to it. I, I, I've been missing.

One of the guys, Nathan Beck, he was like, well, I've missed a couple days because we're moving. And I'm like, don't worry. He was like, do I need to get out of the group chat? I'm like, no, you stay in the group chat. We're not like banishing you. But like, no, you're still part of the Burpee Tribe. We're excited to get you back on board as soon as you're healthy.

Yeah.

But no, like to that point, like, I've always enjoyed doing like really, really hard stuff. And, um, I think it's always been, I don't know if it's been since I was a kid when my dad got remarried to my stepmom, like up to that point I was just playing video games forever. Like Call of Duty. I had, I had logged like weeks of gameplay. Um, so I think my dad getting remarried into a family that was kind of active and I had a stepbrother that would like kick my butt and we'd wrestle and fight and he would pin me on the ground. It pissed me off. Like I was so mad. That somebody could just like manhandle me like that. So I was like, wait, I gotta be a little competitive. I got, I kind of got that competitive edge from having other siblings, right? Um, when my dad got remarried, but okay, to that point, like with divorce came a lot of really hard stuff. And Jared and I have had our fair share of hard things between like, I lost my dad when I was on my mission. And, you know, even before that, like divorce with my mom and dad wasn't always the smoothest transition with stepfamily, with, you know, parents bickering within with one another. It's not easy to be a kid in that. And just you saying that made me think like, hey, maybe the reason I like those hard things is just because it gives me an escape from some of that. Because I, man, I didn't start talking openly about my dad until about 2 years ago. In fact, When Jared brought up this podcast idea with me the first time, I actually told him no. I was like, dude, I've got other things I like to do right now. I'm trying to hit this golden door. I don't have time to do podcasts right now. And now I'll record a podcast with Jared at 12 o'clock and go start knocking at 2. Like my like I've been able to work through a lot of stuff, but the thing was like my obsession with doing hard stuff, like I'm like, just like while I'm on the, while we're on this podcast with you, I'm like, holy crap, maybe it's a reason. Maybe it's a way I've tried to cope with a lot of that hard stuff that's happened. And a reason why I was like, did great in sales for quite a while, because it's a culture of like, you know, forget about it, shove it down, like forget about your emotions and just go knock. You know, you don't have to process it. Yeah. And a lot of my darkest moments in my life have come after getting like a $100,000 check in a backend and a baby on the way. And we, like, I had a baby on the way. No, I had a ba— I had just had our first, we had had our daughter and I had just gotten a hundred grand in a backend check and it was like the weirdest thing in the world because I'm like, wait, I'm not happy still. And it was because I hadn't processed a lot of things with what happened when I was growing up. I actually hired a coach back then too that I worked through a lot of things. And coaching is one of the most overlooked— coaching and therapy, I think, is one of the most overlooked things that are overlooked things that could benefit and change somebody's life. Because the only reason I feel like at peace right now with my life is because I've worked through a lot of things. And I still think I can continue to work through them. Specifically with, you know, with my parents' divorce, with problems that I've had with my stepmom, or like struggling with things with, you know, with my parents splitting up as a kid. And like, that's tough. Like, you know, it's hard to process as a kid, right? And so I don't know if I ever really— what's cool about that is I hired a coach to work with to process a lot of things. And I hired her originally, her name is Lindsay Thiongphu. And I hired her originally to like, hey, I need help to create a manual. And eventually what ended up happening was like, I ended up processing a lot of hard emotions that I had to, from things with my stepmom, from things with my mom, from things with my dad that like all happened. Growing up. And ultimately, I have a way better relationship with my mom, with my— with talking about my dad, and with my stepmom now, because my dad's no longer around, but I can actually talk about him without it spiraling me down into this, like, dark place. So I don't know if that makes sense. I'm just like, I'm actually processing— that's George at the door right now— but I'm actually kind of processing some of that right now. And it's cool. It's cool. Like, but I still like doing crazy stuff. Like I'll, I'll continue to do crazy stuff for a long time.

Um, yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing crazy stuff. It's still, I love surfing and my kids push me into waves I probably shouldn't be catching. And I, I think that there's, there's joy to be had in that. I think the wrap it up is I think a lot of us do. Do some things, not all, but we do some things to run away from facing stuff that we need to process, that we need to deal with. You know, whether it's stuff that happened as a kid or stuff that is currently going on. But I think it's much more common than we realize.

Yeah, one, one last thing I'll add there. Is like coping mechanisms is something that I had this other epiphany on the retreat as well. Like, dude, I can't— the retreat was such a breakthrough event for me because like it helped me. It was like I was going a certain way and it was just enough to just make me think, okay, cool, I'm going to start making different decisions and think differently. And so, um, but one of the things that I'd realized while I was out there or kind of re-realized is that like throughout the course of my life, I've had a very addictive personality. And so one of the things throughout high school and then college and even post-mission too was like pornography stuff. And, and that, and that's tough to overcome. There's way, there's always been waves in life. But one of the things I talked with, to the guys on the retreat is that I figured a way to kind of flip that on its head and, um, and turn the addictive personality into, into something that serves me. And so I'm incredibly addicted to working out and doing things that actually serve me now. And so I, and I'm incredibly addicted to selling. And it actually serves me, it provides us a great life, finance, like a great financial situation. So I think some of those things too, like our personalities, I say this, our personalities, they can, they can show themselves, they can show the ugly side, but there's also a really good side to some of those personality traits. That we think put us in a bad position, or like, just the fact like during the retreat, I saw so many guys open up about things that they were struggling with. But that very thing that they're struggling with now is something that is their superpower now, because they're the hope for somebody else to get out of that situation. Kind of like the Ed Mylett, the thing, the very thing that you think disqualifies you is the very thing that qualifies you to help other people. And so just a cool, like, and yeah, just a cool thing. Because since, you know, since struggling with pornography throughout high school, and throughout like college, like the beginning, beginning of college before I went, after I, after I came home from my mission, like, that's been a superpower for me to be able to talk to other guys and be like, hey, this is what you need to do. Like, let's work through this. How can you get over this? And how can we kind of stop the addiction so that it doesn't become something that wrecks your life, you know? So cool. I just, I just, you know, that's one of the things that was, you know, common theme that I was able to talk, talk about at the retreat. It's cool that, and it's not one of the first times we brought it up on this podcast, but it's, it's just cool to be real and just be like, hey, like the very, like if you're struggling and if you're listening to our podcast, if you struggle with stuff, it's like, hey, welcome to the club. This is life. And there are a lot of people that are very willing to talk to you and, and open up with you about how they've overcome. So yeah, that's just the coolest thing, man, going to that retreat, and being able to connect with other guys, and just be real. Right.

So something I— something I've realized, the older I've gotten is just how many other families are broken, just how many other people have crazy things going on in their lives. I used to think, you know, my family's pretty, you know, pretty good. Everything seems to be going just fine. I have a few friends whose parents are divorced, but, um, you know, that's just, that's just how it is. Everyone has some friends that are divorced. Uh, and then my parents split up and, uh, Chris, you don't know this, but, um, when I was a senior in high school, we found out my dad had a pretty serious drug addiction. And then from then on, it just spiraled out of control. Um, and my parents ended up separating when I was on my mission. Um, my dad, you know, really hit rock bottom in a lot of ways. And he ended up living on the streets for a long time, and then he got sober for a little while, moved up to Northern California. I'm from Redlands in Southern California. And yeah, so he moved up to Northern California, and, you know, we don't really know what's going on with him, where he's at, what he's up to, but I would imagine probably still deep in the world of addiction. So thinking about, like, thinking about that, used to think like, oh man, my, my family story is kind of crazy, but, uh, you know, that's just how it is. But then realizing like, wait a minute, my family's just like every other family. You know, all my friends who had, you know, serious parent problems, or we'd go to, you know, one of their parents' house when they were staying with that parent during, you know, this month in high school or whatever, but we wouldn't go over when they were staying at another friend's house or their other parent's house. Or just, I mean, just thinking like all the people I've met and hearing a little bit about their stories, and especially in the military, a lot of people join the military because they are running away from issues at home. And, you know, part of it might be similar to what we're talking about of like, I'm going to go do a different hard thing because I don't want to deal with this hard thing in my life. But another part of it is there are a whole lot of things in my life not going right. So maybe I'm going to latch on to something that can at least provide for me and keep me out of trouble. And, you know, maybe straightened me out in a lot of ways. So there are a lot of folks like that that I work with. And so listening to some of their family stories, I'm like, holy crap, everyone's family's broken. Everyone's got issues. Like, I'm just another one, you know? And it makes me wonder, you know, how do we have these conversations? Because Austin and I can have these conversations all day. That's why we decided to start the podcast is because we were actually having these conversations on a weekly basis. But then our relationship in a lot of ways is founded on the struggles that we've had in our families and being able to connect on that. Whereas we have, we've got, both of us have friends that we've known, you know, since we were in middle school, since we were in high school, friendships that were founded on, you know, playing soccer together, playing sports together, doing other things. And so then it seems like it might be too hard to then open that door to have those conversations about, hey, like, I'm really struggling with this. Because the foundation wasn't originally founded on that, that sense of openness and vulnerability. So as a, as a coach, you know, I'm sure you've probably seen this in a lot of different ways. Um, I guess what are some of these, um, these barriers that you've seen people face when they try to have open conversations with, with their friends or with family members or coworkers?

I think the biggest thing is it comes down to feeling safe. You know, like most people that have had trauma and, you know, difficult experiences, whether it's upbringing or currently, they lack safety. And so, and to be vulnerable is putting yourself out there so that you maybe aren't safe, right? Like, who knows what that person's going to do with the information that you share with them. And so if you have been stabbed in the back before because you've been vulnerable and because you've been open, what's the likelihood that you're going to do it again? And so I think that's a big reason. We also just don't know a lot of people and we haven't gotten to know people to the point where we do feel safe, you know, sharing hard stuff. And I don't know that you need to go around like, I don't know, vulnerability, thanks to Brené Brown, has been like this huge buzzword. And I think it's great, but I think some people have taken it to the extreme levels where it's like, it's not as valuable when you're telling everybody everything. You're just like, I don't think that's the point. You know, it's, it's the point is safety.

I had a friend once at a gathering get up and tell everyone about her struggles with this relationship or whatever. And then people started to question like, well, why did this happen? What about this? What about this? And she just took it all and just started bawling. And kind of thinking about that afterwards, I was like, what the— I don't think that was maybe the right place or time to express that vulnerability because you really just kind of like stood out there and said, hey, look at everyone. Why don't you shoot the arrows those, uh, now. And they did, and it was painful. And I thought, yeah, there's got to be a, a better approach to being vulnerable. And, um, I think maybe perhaps she thought she was safe, but like, it wasn't, it wasn't the right time.

I think, yeah, something interesting.

It's—

yeah, with— go ahead. Oh yeah, Chris, you go ahead. I'd love to hear what you have.

Oh, I was just gonna say, like, if you grew up not in a safe environment, then you didn't learn what it means. You didn't learn how to create it, you know. And so not only do people not know how to create it for themselves, right, anybody that they're connecting with, there's an automatic, like, wall, right, of, of distrust. There's this barrier that's like automatically there unless you do something to tear it down and to break it down. And even then, there is a risk of people taking advantage of you or, you know, doing things that, that breaks that trust. And then of course, you're going to put that wall right back up.

I, one of the things that I liked about iRetreat is that it was a group setting, but it was, really cool that walls did come down because there was an overall sense of like, okay, cool, whatever is said in this room doesn't leave. And that was a really cool thing. But it started out like little by little, like Corey, one of the things that Corey had us do over there was like write a list of 50 reasons why we ought to believe in ourselves. And then we wrote them down and we didn't think we were going to share them, but we got into small groups afterwards and we shared them.. And just from that, I am already like homies with all the people in my group just from that little exercise, because you really get to know people better. And I think you're right. I've got a couple friends that I can be really open with. Jared, you're one of them, and Chris, so are you. And I think that part of that is because we were at that retreat together and there was like that moment. But Jared and I, yeah, You said a really good word one time was crucible. Like me and you both met in like a crucible in our lives. And no one can ever take that away from us just because we both struggled together. And yeah, dude, like, I get emotional thinking about that because I'm like, man, like you got me through a big part of my mission. But I've really valued a lot of the friendships I've had where I've been able to talk about the struggles and how hard it's you know, how hard it can be to provide. And dude, I'm a big dream chaser and like to be able to talk with Jared about some of the goals I have and to be able to have somebody to hear, you know, to have somebody to talk with about some of the insecurities I've had. It's been really cool. I have another buddy that comes out and work, comes and works out with me every single morning. And dude, we have, we'll have to have him on here one of these days, but if he's open to it. But I met him before, like when he was really kind of struggling in life and, and just started inviting him to come work out with me at the gym. And now we're like homies. But we've just grown a lot together as we've kind of chased some hard goals. He does burpees with us every day. And he's all— we've also opened up to each other about things that are difficult and it's the coolest thing. And that's what gets me through. Like, I don't, I don't get as excited about sales anymore. I'm excited for what comes before and after sales now. Like my priorities in life have totally shifted. Um, but because of that, I've been able to like provide better for my family in sales. There's still a lot that I want to work through and Chris, I'm looking forward to like phone calls with you this summer to kind of work through some of that. Um, because there's still, I still feel like I'm leaving something on the table. And when I'm out there, right? Like, I don't know, it's interesting. So I found a lot of harmony in my life at this point right now. And then I crave real conversations with real people. And that's why I've loved being able to work with you guys, Chris. It's been the coolest thing that's happened to me as far as my coaching experiences so far. And, you know, group, group coaching is so much fun. Because now I have all these people in my life that I can be real with. But I think I'm going to talk a little bit about that breathing exercise. That was the most wild thing I ever did in my life. So Jared, this is another thing that we did while we were there. So, okay, there was a breathwork person who came and she gave us cacao, which is basically hot chocolate. Okay. So they, they, I loved how they talked about it. They're like, this is cacao. It will open up your heart. I'm like, let's go. Like it made it so much more. It was a cacao ceremony, right? Yeah. And so they all had us drink this cacao. Uh, it's hot chocolate really. Um, but if you ask her, she said it wasn't, but I think it was, but it was magical.

It's just gross hot chocolate is what it is.

Dude, it was really bitter.

None of the like. Extra stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's just like a straight chocolate.

Yeah, we, we grew up drinking a lot of, uh, coco Samoa, which is the roasted cacao beans. You like roast them over the fire and you peel them yourself like while they're hot, and then you mush up the beans, uh, and then it like, when it cools, it hardens into like a solid brick, and then you just toss that brick into boiling water, and that is like, that's what you drink. So it's like, it's raw, pure, just ground up cacao.

I drink a lot of hot chocolate.

No, it is not.

That is hard stuff to drink.

Where is this served, by the way?

Does it not taste good?

Australia.

Oh, so cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're gonna drink a lot of it.

There's a lot of Polynesians out there, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So sorry.

It's a good experience.

Oh yeah, we drink this cacao, right? And she's like, okay, like everybody lay down, get comfortable. She kind of gave us an expectation of what was going to happen. So she said that we're going to have music on and we were going to do like 20-some-odd minutes straight of this breathwork where we go like breathe in twice, like, and then breathe out, breathe in twice and then breathe out. And it was a very fast-paced breathing. And she told us like you could start, your body could start to tingle, your hands could start to cramp up. And it was wild because it was incredibly uncomfortable. But like Chris had talked to us about leaning into, you know, the uncomfortable and like trying to like lean more into that and get more, get more like just to improve our relationship with that. So I kept pushing through this breathing exercise. Once it started, there was like, there's some intense music in the background that was like half like Namaste and half like Imagine Dragons. It was cool. But it was wild because like, our bodies hold all this emotion that we don't ever process. And that all like came out. I mean, I always kind of used to turn my head at those videos of seeing people like bawling. I was like, oh, that's fake. Like, that's like where, you know, you see somebody else crying and then you're moved to cry because you don't want to fit in. You want to fit in. No, like, right, it's legit what's going on. Because your body is like releasing and processing all this emotion that you haven't processed. Like I, like, well, I had not processed. And so, um, like your hands start to cramp and you get very uncomfortable. Like my body was, my whole body was tingling and like vibrating at this, like, like I felt like my body was like a nuclear power plant, just woo woo, like vibrating at this crazy frequency. And it was cool. But there was a moment like halfway through, like leaning into that, like, you get really emotional. And there was a moment in there where she's like, just let it out. And dude, I have never— it was the most— it felt so freaking good. Like, just, she just let it out, scream. And it, it felt great, like to be able to just like release all of that emotion. And Chris, I think there was— she's like, think about, like, look at your child self, like, have a conversation with you as a child. And then also just, like, have a conversation with yourself and then just try to laugh, right? Like, but I feel like I'm butchering the whole exercise. But what one of the things that happened, like, when it had a conversation with myself as a child, I was talking to myself after my parents' divorce. And like in my head, right? Like just telling myself like, hey, everything's going to be okay. One of the coolest things, because I have never, I had never actually like processed that in that sort of setting. But then I had other like other moments in that breathing exercise where I recalled dreams that I had with my dad while I was on my mission after my dad had passed.. And it was just me and my dad on one of those metros in Chile, dude. Like, he was just sitting with my dad and it was really cool to have that experience again. Cuz I have never thought about that dream after I had it. Came up maybe one or two more times, but it came back and I was with my dad. So, so cool. And, um, Chris, I, I, I, I appreciated that a lot, dude, cuz I, I felt like I got, we got to know a lot of the guys really well cuz we, all that stuff did come up. It's like, whoa, let's talk about it. Let's process it. Right. So, um, have you done anything like that before, Chris? And what was your experience like with it?

Yeah, I, I have done things like that before. Um, I've, you know, I've even facilitated similar kind of things. I, I think what it does, cuz it's really just oxygenating, oxygenating I can't speak. It's putting a lot more oxygen in your blood. And, but it also allows you to open up cues on like kind of what to think about. And, and it brings up some of those things that we talked about that usually we're running from, right? It brings those to the surface and then facilitating the conversation about, you know, talking about it. Like it's one thing to feel it. It's another to articulate. And the articulating and kind of forcing you to say things out loud can be an important part of the processing of those things. Um, you know, and really I think it was just kind of opening it up. I think there's still a lot of work to be done. Um, but that was like the start of like, okay, I've, I've been carrying this weight around. Now I know that I'm carrying it, but now there's more stuff, right? And that's what the one-on-one calls are hopefully for a lot of people getting at is like, okay, you became aware of a lot of things that need to be processed and worked through. Now let's work through them. But yeah, it's amazing how things like that, like especially with a bunch of sales bros that are just like, oh, this is, You know, kind of like stupid, you know, hippie stuff. And then, but I'm here, so I'm gonna do it. And then all of a sudden, you know, it, you know, you let your guard down, break, break down some of those walls because, you know, it's a safe place. And then a lot of, I think a lot of, uh, struggles and issues were brought to the surface and also things that people, that people can work through. You know, that maybe they haven't been in that safe of a place to even address.

It's cool to see that, you know, you've created that safe space for like, for myself and for a lot of other guys. It's, and I really enjoyed chatting with you about like, what I experienced and like, I, I, I, I, yeah, I really thought it was a cool thing to do because it helped me kind of, I think you did make a good point. Like it's not resolved. It's always good to continue to work through some of that and figure out why it's there and, you know, get curious about it. Um, but yeah, one of the, one of the—

I had a question.

Uh, go ahead.

Sorry, Austin. I totally cut you off. Um, I, I did have a question kind of on that topic of um, kind of like talking to yourself, um, like a past self. Chris, if you could go back to when you were, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old, um, what would you— what advice would you give yourself? And then I'd also like to know, uh, if you could go back and talk to your 30-year-old self, what would you go and, and tell yourself? Those are like two different phases of life, so, uh, I'm really curious.

Yeah, I, I don't know that I would want to like give myself any secrets or anything. Maybe I would tell myself like, take care of your knees, you know, because 2 weeks before I turned 30, I blew out my ACL.

Oh.

And that's been like a huge struggle. A lot of areas of my life is, is with the knees. Uh, but I think I would tell myself like, like embrace the uncertainty. I think that's been one of my struggles is, is the need for certainty, like unwilling to take risks. And because of that fear and doubt and, and not knowing what the result is gonna be. And I, so I think I would tell myself, take care of your knees, uh, and, and also like just go for it. Like, like take the risks, you know, when you have these stupid ideas, like just go, like you'll land on your feet. Um, yeah, cause I think I was hesitant a lot, you know, I, more outgoing. Um, like I think I'm pretty extroverted, but as a kid, I wasn't so much. You know, like, like the mission did a lot for me in that, in that aspect. So, uh, but then, okay, then the 30— sorry, go ahead.

No, no, no, no, no, please keep going.

Keep going.

I was gonna say, okay, and then what would I tell my 30-year-old self? I, I don't know. I'm 42 now. So that would have been 12 years ago. I was a little bit older in school. So I think I was just finishing grad school at that point. And maybe it'd be more of the same, like take risks. Go for it, like take shots. Um, but also I think my 30-year-old self, I think I'd, I'd probably remind them to have fun, like to find joy in the work. I think, you know, just fin— grad school's hard. It's a lot of work. It's, you're tired. Um, and I think at that time I was like doing so much. And maybe not as joyful as I could have been. You know, and I'm a kid at heart. And so I think remind myself, like, you know, you don't have to grow up. Like, I mean, in some senses you do, you know, I had 3 kids when I was 30. And so you got to pay the bills, but at the same time, like, find the childlike joy in not, not like avoid work to find, you know, childlike joy, but like find childlike joy in the work. So maybe be like more curious, be open, um, you know, to learning new things, but not in such a serious way and just kind of have, have fun with it.

I like that.

Yeah, I was— oh, sorry, go ahead, Austin.

No, I like that. I, I, uh, I— the way, the way I've done that, Chris, is I just pretend like I'm doing like a, like trick-or-treating every day for my job. I'm like, cool, good little gig.

Beautiful.

No, I was, I was thinking, um, I feel like, you know, they say that the, uh, the male brain doesn't— isn't fully developed until you're 26. I feel like I turned 26 and then suddenly I was like awake. Like, I can't even imagine why I used to behave the way that I did or used to think the way that I did, even when I was like 22, 23. Like, I just, I can't even understand it. And so thinking back, like, if I could go back and talk to my 20-year-old self, I think the first thing I would do would just try to instill some confidence in that guy. Like, dude, like, you're just fine. Like everyone else is struggling with all sorts of things. Like, you know, have some confidence in yourself, man. You can do it. Like, you don't need to freak out. Like, you know, stand up straight when you're talking to this girl. Like, dude, you're gonna be just fine, man. Like, take the risk. Like, go for it. You know, like, you got nothing to lose and you're gonna be just fine. I feel like that was something I struggled with so much for so long is just having the confidence to just put myself out there. I'm talking about being vulnerable, like to just try to see what happens, you know, to make the phone call, to ask her out, to do whatever. I just, man, I was just so timid all the time. Chris, do you skateboard? You're a big surfer.

I did growing up.

Or did.

The bad knees, I've kind of said, you know. I can still, I can still surf if I don't skate, but usually when I skate, it takes me out of the water. So it's not worth it.

Right. Um, when you're dropping in, um, on any sort of bowl or a quarter pipe, half pipe, whatever, when you're dropping in, you have to commit to dropping in. And so talking about like standing on the edge of a, you know, edge of a ramp and you're about to like dip over the edge and roll down. If you don't commit all the way and your body's still kind of like vertical, you're still kind of standing up, but you tilt your board down. Now your weight is distributed entirely wrong over the board, and what's going to happen is the board's going to slide out from under you, and you are going to hit the ramp, and you are going to slide down the ramp on your butt or your back or whatever, and it's going to be really uncomfortable. And if you tilt too far forward and you just kind of like jump, like throw yourself off the edge, you will go over your board and you will tumble and roll down.

You—

there's like this sweet spot of you've got to lean all the way forward and keep your feet firmly planted and stay like perpendicular to the pipe or the ramp itself. Um, but you've got to commit to it. Like, you are—

you are—

it is incredibly unlikely that you will overcommit and like roll forward off your board. It can happen, yes, but like highly unlikely. You are most likely going to either nail it or not lean in enough and you're just gonna slide and fall. And just like, I think about that, dude, and I feel like that is— that describes like the first 24 years of my life, you know, just like not all the way there. Just don't quite want to give it all. Don't quite want to put myself out there. Maybe I'll like test the waters a little bit, but then the board's gonna slide out, I'm gonna roll down, I'm gonna feel like an idiot, and like I'm not gonna want to do it anymore. But like now I start to realize, dude, you just gotta freaking do it. You just put yourself out there and just see what happens, because like 9 times out of 10, man, you are gonna learn an enormous amount. And yeah, sometimes you look like a fool. Sometimes people laugh at you or whatever, but like, dude, it is. And, and if you can have some, a childlike curiosity about what if, what would just happen, just what if, what if I did this, what if I did that, man, just like, what is possible out there? I feel like the world is, is a, is a much more bright and exciting place than it is, you know, terrifying and depressing and scary.

I agree 100%. I, I think a big problem that people have is They're so focused on the outcomes of things, you know, like skating. It's like you, you want to, you know, land that, that drop in, but confidence is so wishy-washy when you're thinking about outcomes. When you're focused on just, here's what I'm going to do, you know, and if it's wrong, you'll at least identify what to change, you know. Um, but it, it's not a natural thing for people to do to base their confidence on taking an action. Typically people's confidence is just based on like getting an outcome, but yet that causes so many problems. Um, you know, and so I don't know if people can change their confidence and just associate it with what they're gonna do. It'll, it, it changes everything.

Right?

Like, like having— talking about like having a conversation with a girl. Like, this is the words I'm gonna say. She'll like it or not, but then I'm gonna listen to her response. You know, like, like you can have all the confidence in the world in that. Like the, the struggles and all that because happens because we are like making assumptions about what's going to happen, how she's going to respond. And assumptions are sometimes right, but often not.

Well, I was just thinking, um, I was just thinking about, uh, this last time I went snowboarding, back to more board analogies. I went snowboarding with my sister-in-law, uh, in Utah not too long ago. And I have— I'm not kidding— I have dreamed about snowboarding in a park. I've gone snowboarding now twice in my entire life, and like before that, that trip that we took, that I took with my sister-in-law was the second time I'd ever been. Like, I'd only gone once and I, but just like all the time, like, man, it would be so cool. Like, I've watched the X Games my whole life. Like, it would be so dope to be on a halfpipe or to like go on these rails, go off these jumps. Like, I can feel it. I can like, I can feel what it would feel like in my brain. And so I'm, I'm like so excited. So I told my sister and I was like, yeah, let's go snowboarding. And can we please go to a park? Like, I just, I just want to put myself and just see what happens, you know, put myself out there. And she's like, you want to go to a park? Like, you've been one time. I was like, yeah, but I, I just, I can't stop thinking about it. And so finally towards the end of the night we go and we'd gone up the lift several times watching the park. I'm like, okay, there's these kinds of rails. Like maybe we could do this, maybe we could try this. And so we go down and she's like, she's like, all right, like I'll go down and I'll, you know, I'll film you and you come back behind me. I'm like, okay, sounds good. And very first jump, dude, I'm so excited. I go like launching off this jump. I jump way higher than I thought I was going to. So like, you know, I tuck up my knees, But then I like straightened my legs out expecting to like hit the snow and I've still got another like 2 feet. So by the time I hit, I just like boom, roll, flip out, like come, the board comes off, like get up and I'm like, okay, all right, we can do this, we can figure this out. And then we go and there are a couple rails and I wanted to go on, I don't know the technical term, but like the flat ones that are like, they're like rectangular, but they're like curved, but they're flat. It's not just like a pipe, you know? And I was like, okay, I really wanna try. I really want to try a boardslide on these. Like, I watch a bunch of people do it. I think it would be so much fun. I probably got to like lean forward over so that the board doesn't just like slip out from under me. But I think we can do it. Like, it looks like— I think we could do it. And so my sister-in-law goes down and she like takes a video and I'm like, all right, I got this. And so I start riding down and I jump, I jump up because it's kind of like a jump and I turn sideways and the second my board touches the rail, it just slides out from under me and I ride the entire rail on my butt. Just like sliding and I roll out and I can hear people on the lift just laughing. And, and I get up, I'm like, all right, I got to lean further forward. Like there's another one down there. Let's go for it. I get up and I'm just laughing. I'm having the time of my life. And I hit the next one and she gets the video of it. And you can see I like jump in this one. The rail is flat and then it goes down the hill. So I go and I ride the flat part and I didn't fall off and I was like super stoked. But then it goes on to the downhill and I like launch off of it. And now I'm like turning sideways and then just like roll into the snow. But I rolled in such a way that I somehow like get back up on my feet and I like keep going down and I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm riding it. I come around the corner and she's like, Jared, you totally ate it. And I was like, yeah, I did, but it's so much fun. And then there's like another ramp right there and I'm like, check this out. And I jump and I totally eat it and I get up and everyone on the lift is laughing. My sister-in-law is laughing at me and I was like, that was So much fun. Like just so exciting. I'm probably like, my neck's probably gonna hurt. My butt's gonna hurt. Like I, all I did was basically eat it the entire way down this hill, but I had so much fun and now like I wanna get back, I wanna do it again. I wanna see what would happen. I think I would do better the next time. But like there the, I, I just think about what that experience would be like and I've, I've heard it so many times from other people going snowboarding. Like, oh yeah, I went one time and it just like, my butt hurts, my back hurts.

I'm just sore.

It sucked. Like, Like you're gonna be in pain either way at the end of it. Like why not have the time of your life? Why not decide, you know, I'm gonna go out today, I'm gonna have a 5-star experience and I'm just gonna, like, we're just gonna love it and we're gonna get to the end of it and we're gonna wanna do it again. And when we do it again, it'll be better. Because if you only go one time, like, uh, like skimboarding, anyone who goes skimboarding, you go skimboarding one time, all you're gonna do is eat it the whole time. But if you go skimboarding a second time, you're gonna get better. You're gonna ride it and it's gonna be fun. So anyone who's gone and they've only gone one time, they probably hated it. But everyone who's gone a second time or a third time has probably loved it. And I think that's just, that is an analogy for life that you, you, if you, if you only try the one thing and it sucks and you stop there, all you're gonna have is the story of that sucked. It was painful. It hurt. I was betrayed. I, you know, it just, it, it sucked. And now I have this view of everyone else and everything else as, as negative and depressing and against me. But if you get out there and you do it again and you try it again, I think it's, I think the result is gonna be completely like a 180-degree flip.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I, I think so many people just live their lives avoiding things that doesn't naturally the first time. I'm like, nothing comes naturally the first time. I get it. Sure, some stuff people are just better at some things, but like for the most part, when you're new at anything, you're not going to be the best at it. Um, but yeah, it's, it's— I love snowboarding too. Like, it is so fun. Um, but you have to do it for fun and realize the fun, not just like landing it perfect, you know. That's one of the reasons I love surfing is because surfing, you fall so much. Sometimes you even fall on purpose, and it's just as much part of the fun as every other aspect of it.

I told one of the rookies the other day, Chris, there is a study done on like really successful— you've probably heard this, like with sports psychology, like the really successful baseball players, they get the same dopamine hit as they do when they hit the ball as when they miss the ball. Like it's not hitting the ball that gives them the dopamine hit rush. It's just the act of swinging. And so I had 2 rookies shadowing me the other day. They're so— some of them are really focused on the process and some of them are really, really in their heads right now because they haven't sold that much. I'm like, dude, I don't get excited anymore from like the sale. I just get excited if I go for it and I go for the close. Like that is just as exciting as getting the deal. Because I ended up getting a lot of them because I just swing, right? But the point was, I said, guys, like, the guys watched me go 15 minutes with a guy, and I couldn't end up, I couldn't wrap up the deal. So I ended up just, you know, going to the next door. And I said, guys, that gave me just as much of a rush and of excitement as getting the deal. I said, just go to the next one, move on. And we got the second guy that we talked to. So we got him to sign up, but the, that's why, yeah, that's why I think it'd be, it'd be so much, it'll be so much fun this summer to work with you because your background is that sports psychology and sports performance, because that is what we do in door-to-door sales. Like they already treat us like athletes at the companies. You know, my, my brother-in-law, he dies laughing because every summer they make the graphics and it's like Austin Maser, 10 sales. And it's like the hype up music.

And, you know, dude, you guys need like trading cards.

Oh, we do. It's like, it's our— it's your baseball card at the end of the season with all your stats. So it's— we've never printed them, Jared, but that's a great idea. But one year they did like this whole video with Bruce Buffett, the guy that announces for the UFC, for Coney and I. And like, they announced us before we went into our final round together. So the point is, it is— sales is such a sport. And if you treat it like a sport where you're actually just playing to compete with yourself, that's the key, to compete with yourself, then you do so much better. But Chris, like, I'm really excited. I'm really grateful that you took the time to be with us here tonight. You are a safe place to me. And that's one thing that I thought was really cool that Jared said, that talking with you is just safe. I feel super calm, at peace when I talk with you. And so it's cool to see how you are. Like when I ask like, what's your mission? You're like, I love being a dad. And that is huge because I don't think there's anything better than that.. And you're a great example to me, man. So I appreciate you, dude, a lot.

Well, thank you. I appreciate you. And I don't know if I could, you know, receive a better compliment than, than being a safe place. You know, whether it's for guys that I coach, my, my wife, my kids, like, I think that, you know, is, is something that we should all seek for., you know, with, with important relationships in our lives. Um, and I don't know if other dads out there just sought to do that, you know, just to be a safe place, you know, for your spouse and your kids. I mean, regardless of what you do in your career, I mean, that's, that's an accomplishment.

I appreciate that. That's a mic drop right there.

Yeah, I absolutely love that.

But Chris, we appreciate you. Jared, is there any other last minute questions you have for Chris before we call it a night?

Uh, no, we should probably wrap up there. Um, I mean, I've got another 150 questions that we could, we could talk about, but we'll have to save that for another time.

We can, we can do a part 2 another time.

Oh, absolutely. Uh, some of the things that, you know, some questions that we didn't get to is, you know, uh, like, what are your biggest fears? What, what dreams do you have on the business front? Like, in terms of like, what do you want?, moving forward. What are the biggest ways that being a father has changed you? What are the biggest things that you've had to change about yourself since becoming a father? I mean, there's, there's a lot we could totally go into. Um, so we'll have to, we'll tee that up for next time. Uh, but thank you everybody for, for joining us for today. Uh, if you found our discussion with Chris impactful, be sure to leave a 5-star rating and a review wherever you're listening to the show. Uh, and be sure to share this episode with someone who could learn from it, which would be basically everybody because, uh, I've, I've already taken a whole bunch of notes and I've learned a lot, um, just in the short time. So thank you, Chris and Austin. Thank you for setting this up, man. Really appreciate it.

Yeah, of course.

Thank you guys for having me.

Of course, man. We'll talk soon.