2021 Half-Time Talk With Matt and Stephen (relationships after covid, dating apps, body confidence, and MORE)

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Well, welcome back to the Love Life podcast with me, Matthew Hussey, and of course, my wonderful, handsome brother, Stephen Hussey.

Welcome back, da-da-da-da-da. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back. Okay, we have to stop there. or it will cost us royalties.

I don't think they're gonna be claiming royalties on that. And for anyone who's wondering who might be claiming royalties on that, it is the wonderful Mace, the rapper. Not that you would know it from that short segment, but Steve, it, I, so it was still a great song, still very catchy. Hello to all of you out there listening to the Love Life podcast. Steve, I thought I'd just start with some reviews today because we don't really read reviews out loud on the show. And that may give people the impression that we don't read them, which I do.

No.

Unlike comments everywhere else where there are just thousands of them, there's sort of a manageable level on the podcast where you can dip in and just really enjoy a review every couple of days.

I agree. So what have you been, you're in there more than I am these days. So what you've been, what you've been rummaging, what you've been finding?

Well, you know, You know I love a bit of praise, Steve.

Sure, yeah, and you like to read it out on the show, so, you know, go for it.

That's not true. I'm reading it out basically for the first time. So, here we go. I'll start with, you know, this at random. I'm just picking one here. He's really the best.

That's very nice, is that it?

No, it keeps going. I just wanted to get your reaction to that part. I have been listening to Matthew's advice for years and there's just truly no one better out there. His sharp wit, enthusiasm and magnetic personality, this is a really lovely portrayal of me, Stephen. Really keep the listener captivated. But ultimately his ability to deliver these truths in a way that's almost blunt yet insightful, humorous and empathetic at the same time is truly a gift. There's something very warm and familiar in the way he delivers. Am I in love? Maybe, truly worth the listen.

Now do the paragraph he said about me after it.

I'm gonna be honest with you, Steve, there wasn't a paragraph about you in that one, but there are a couple of others. Great podcast, says Marta Maria Wheeler. I can't get enough of Matthew and Steve. It's not just a great dating advice podcast. It's a life coaching seminar. Great podcast for everyone who's willing to dive into self-improvement and become a better, more aware person. I thought this was lovely. This was about the April 24th episode by Daisy Sweetpea. What a great name. It's Matthew and Stephen. You both helped me forgive a part of me that was destroying me. Thank you so much. I really love that one because when we are beating ourselves up for something we've done, it does slowly but surely erode some of the best parts of us and our confidence and our sense of peace and happiness.

Absolutely. Well thank you sweet pea, I appreciate that.

And do leave us these reviews because they genuinely mean a lot. We do love reading them and it's really lovely. We're putting more effort into the podcast these days aren't we Steve? And it is nice to know that there are people out there listening.

Yep, certainly are. So what brings us here, boss?

Well here's what I thought we could do. I thought we could take I thought we could take a little journey in this one where we talk about dating apps for a minute or two and just get the lie of the land right now. Like sort of re-establish where people are at right now in dating, you know, it's middle of 2021, the world is opening back up again and people are finding themselves... Well, if the studies are anything to go by, there seem to be an awful lot of people who have realized through the pandemic that they want a real relationship. They want something serious, especially to get them through hard times. God forbid this circles back around again. You don't want to get stuck between in four walls with no person or perhaps even worse, the wrong person. So, you know, I think that's an interesting part of all this is it's made us realize perhaps not only that a lot of us want more substance in our lives and something deeper, but how wrong it can go if you make a bad choice. about who to go deep with. So that's sort of the landscape for some people. For other people, the landscape is going out there and having a wild Bacchanalian festival now that everything's opened up again and they want to go party and that's fine too. So, you know, I thought it'd be good just to sort of do a bit of a state of unions right now. and talk about where people are in dating and then maybe talk about some of the perils of dating apps. How does that sound?

A little halftime talk for 2021. I like that.

Yeah, let's see where people are at, get a temperature and offer perhaps some valuable advice as people go into a world where maybe they're still a bit tentative and also battling some of the problems of dating apps, which maybe we can start here, are that There's so much bloody choice, or at least it seems. You know, it probably is the worst of all worlds in some people's eyes because it feels like there's not a lot of choice when it comes to choosing. Like it feels like, God, everyone's flaky, people aren't actually trying. It's the minimum possible effort being put in by these people, or as we call it, the MPI guy, minimum possible investment. and yet they on the other side seem to have endless choice. And that makes me feel like there's a sea of people I can't possibly compete with in winning the dating game. So what are your thoughts on that, Steve, or just the fact that people just feel like, how do I possibly compete with all the options people seem to have these days?

Yeah, I'm trying to think when I am on, if I'm using dating apps and I'm out there do I think of competition? I certainly think of the fact that people can ignore you very easily and that it's very like people are just not very invested when they match with you. And so it can make you take rejection a lot harder because you feel that, like, oh, I match with them, and then suddenly they stop talking to me. So what did I do wrong? But of course, the, the truth on the other side might be, well, they've got loads of other matches. They've got a life. Maybe they're not spending time on the app. Maybe they've been they've got other stuff going on in their dating life that's kind of, you know, causing them to go on other tangents. So you kind of, you know, my strategy for that sort of thing is to just stop assuming things about people's lives and stop assuming everything is a message about me.

However, well, just to pause you there, though, because I just want to pick up on that point. It's interesting. if people say, well, yeah, but I have a life, but I still, when I match with someone, I have an attitude of actually seeing where it goes. And I just can't stand this world now where everyone treats interactions so flippantly. You know, I'm actually looking for someone. And so when I match with someone, I put a little investment. into that and it just seems like no one else does. What's your. Do you think they're just. They're just seeing it wrong or they're just not being contextual for the platform in the way that they're thinking?

Yeah, I think. I think. I mean, they are diagnosing a problem with what dating apps do. And I. I always tell people I do not have a dog in this fight. I have no reason to promote dating apps specifically. I have no reason. Our business, our company has no reason to rally against.

Them.

So, so it's like, I don't have a dog in this fight. I think the, I'm definitely for, if you want to be out there using dating apps, but herein lies one of the things of, you know, there is a truth about how different people are using them. Some people are just using them for attention and validation and compliments, or they just turn on a profile when they barely pay any attention to it and they swipe on it, but they don't really, they'd rather sit home and play video games tonight. They can't be bothered to actually go on a date. And so there is this thing where all this stuff is happening and yes, people do have choice. Like it does, it does happen. Like if I've been actively using them for, you know, a month or two months saying, you might then have a bunch of matches and it is kind of like, oh man, there's a lot, like, how do I even like decide a filter here to decide like, who I'm interested in, who I'm not so interested in. Like, it becomes another job. It becomes overwhelming. But that's the point. I think you've got to realize that if you're on the online dating thing, in some sense, you are in a bit, a little bit of a numbers game where some people are just not in the place right now who are on the app and might seem cool. There's just all a thousand reasons why they haven't got time. maybe they do have 10 matches before you and they've already arranged a bunch of dates. Like, maybe that's just already happened and you're too late or like all these other stuff. Maybe they've dated like 10 people right now and they're absolutely burnt out and they think, I don't want to use this thing for a while. So I do think, yeah, you might think, well, I have a life, but I'm still using this thing. But you kind of have to meet the person at the right time as well. Timing is a thing. And sometimes you've got to sift through a bit to find the person who's in the right spot. that you're in as well. That is a part of dating. It's not just compatibility.

Do see, I'm kind of interested in the, like, this idea of who should be the first mover or who should be the person who gives a little more first. Because in a world where people, like Steve, even in my own non-dating life, I've been going through just in the last couple of weeks, what I've been quite enjoying is just saying to myself, I'm just gonna, in my general interactions, and I don't even mean like speaking to people, just in, in seeing people on the street or walking past people, I'm gonna give just two percent more than normal or five percent more than normal. And so I just treat the world, you know what it was like, Steve, when we first went to like Florida, and we just thought sort of, sort of interesting just to be in a place where, at least in the sort of resorts we were in, that people would just say hello to you.

Yeah.

And, yeah, that was like a, it was like, oh, wow, people are really, they're really nice. And the more you are that way or, sorry, the more other people are that way, the more you kind of start getting into that Vibe yourself.

Yeah.

And it starts making you Suddenly you wake up the next morning and you're walking through the hotel and you go, hi, to someone you don't know. You're like, hey, how's it going? Because you're like, oh, that's what's normal here. And I have been doing that just in my everyday life is just going, you know what? I'm really gonna just walk around as a friendlier person than other people. And just, you know, we spend so much of our lives not smiling first. because we're worried that someone won't smile back or not saying good morning because we're worried that someone's gonna think we're weird. And, you know, I made a conscious effort to be like, no, I'm just gonna be that person who's makes the world a little bit of a friendlier place. Now, of course, in that context, other than just giving because it feels good to give, it doesn't have any real implications for me. It's not like I'm likely to see that person again tomorrow. and they're gonna suddenly realize, oh, it was that guy who was friendly to me last time. Good morning. Like, it's not that, but in our dating lives, it can have real implications if you're that way. If you decide, you know what? This culture, you know, Jameson often quotes that Mitch Albom quote, that if the culture isn't serving you, you have to be prepared to create your own culture. You have to be brave enough. to make a culture that you want to be in. And in a sense, we all do create these mini cultures around us, whether it's the culture we help to create in our family, in our company, in our relationship, or in our dates. We kind of, we put out energy that can transform the culture of whatever little ecosystem we're operating in. and I think about that because it's easy to say, well, if someone's not trying, don't bother. That's kind of an easy response. Oh, well, if you notice someone's not, if you notice someone's kind of not really doing much in the early stages, don't bother. And I do kind of agree with that, but with a caveat that People respond. We can have an impact in the equation.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I mean? It's not, we're not, it to say that just a blanket statement, don't bother, is to suggest we have no power.

Yeah.

That nothing we do influences somebody else. I don't show up to a speech and think in the first five seconds, well, if this crowd's really cold, just don't bother. What I think is, I know I can have a massive influence on this crowd in 20 minutes. This can be a different crowd based on what I do. Now, that's a different, I'm not comparing that with dating because it's different. We don't want to keep trying with someone who's not giving us much. But I am sort of in favor of deciding an amount of energy that you're happy to give away. Like, decide what amount of energy you're content with giving away and never getting back. And be prepared to give that somewhat without being too discriminating. Just give it. Like, this guy, I don't know him and he doesn't know me, so he can't really hurt me. And, or she can't really hurt me, you know? It's not, I don't have to think about this in personal terms. And, and by the way, that kind of is why I think sometimes we do ourselves a disservice by constantly waiting for the other person to, to give first. Because when we do that, we're assuming we matter to this person more than we do right now. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing. Like, someone you mean nothing to isn't gonna try very hard. They may try on the basis that they really want a relationship. Yeah. But that doesn't mean they're gonna try with you. You know, that energy still, they have so much to give and they give it in certain directions. And like you say, there's a hundred reasons why someone might not be giving it in this very moment to you. But I kind of feel like you don't know how much energy someone has to give unless you're willing to give up a little energy and to see if that lights them up, to see if that somehow creates a level of momentum. And it has to be, once there's momentum, it has to be kind of self-perpetuating. It can't be You have to keep peddling for the electricity to stay on. It has to be like you fire up the generators and now the thing is humming. But sometimes to fire up the generators, someone has to give a little. And I sometimes think that people are so guarded, so protected, so worried about looking cool or indifferent that they never give that first 5% of energy that could fire up the generators. They never give that 5% of warmth that could create warmth. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a sense where people think when I get the green light, I will then like, Wonderful me will appear.

Yeah.

And it doesn't really work like that. You do show the best of yourself as you get to know someone, but people, there's not really a thing in life where someone is like, oh, when people are nice to me at the party, then I'm like, charismatic, cool person. Usually that person walks into the party with an energy, with a giving spirit, with a sense of actually kind of. I know this sounds like a corny term, but, like, some people, like, bring love into a room. Do you know what I mean?

They.

They show up into the room, and they're already exuding, like, love for the people in the room and. good energy and, you know, good vibes, as they would say. But, and you could see, oh, they're bringing that. And people then respond well to them because that person walked into the party smiling, being friendly, and that person is more likely to get the warm side. They're not going to get everyone. Some people are going to be, like, guarded and closed, but other people are going to be like, oh, hey, this person seems really, like, open and friendly, and I feel good around them, so I'm gonna. I'm going to gravitate towards them and dating is the same. And like you say, people are very, I think it's totally right when we give the message that you cut the wrong people off early. I just think there's a sense where people sometimes want someone to bring them everything first before they ever step out or before they give or before they say, hey, maybe I'm putting myself on the line and sending a message now and saying something I like about them. Maybe that's got to be me who does that.

Well, the distinction is if you're the one who keeps throwing out energy and not getting it back, you then have to be honest with yourself about that.

Yeah.

There's no shame in taking a risk and it not paying off. But if you keep injecting energy into a situation and you keep trying to resuscitate it and you're the life support of this relationship all the time or this, you know, dynamic you have with someone in the early stages. That then is something you have to look at. And, you know, that it's then a question of asking, not what's wrong with them, why do they not respond? Why the question really is, what's happening with you that in spite of not getting the same amount of energy back, in spite of not getting equal investment, you continue to, you know, put the, what are they called in medicine? When they put the things on your heart, to resuscitate you.

Oh, the.

What do they call them, Jay?

Defibrillator.

Defibrillator. If you're the good, very, very quick, if you, there's one of those defibrillators at the top of Runyon, by the way, at a hike in LA. There's like a steep part as you go up. It's, it's, it's like the, the hard way up has a defibrillator at the top.

Wow.

Just in case. Yeah. But if you're the defibrillator that and you're constantly having to do that, then you have to ask yourself, why do I keep doing this? What's happening with me that I'm not prepared to lose this person?

Yeah.

Because that to me is the real danger. People to me, they don't assess. We all, we all, I mean, me included. We don't assess danger correctly. We go into a scenario on an app or even a scenario where we go over to someone and say hi. And the idea of being rejected by that person is just death. You know, someone, we go straight back to high school and it's we're being rejected by, you know, that girl, that guy in front of all of our friends and their friends, and we're never gonna live it down. And, you know, I'm sure that I truly believe there is some incredible biological evolutionary reason for this, you know, this deep, deep fear we have of what it means if we're rejected, what it says about our social and sexual status. in the tribe and what it means for our ability to, you know, find love, procreate all of that. I truly believe that those, that impulse runs deep. But what we have to do is, is almost start to understand what the real danger is, which is not a rejection that you get when you first talk to someone and they decide they don't want to. go on a date with you. The real danger is when we keep investing in someone and it's not paying off and that person's giving us just enough to keep us hanging on. And that is the part that I see all the time and that's where real self-analysis has to come in and you say, what is happening with me? What is it I am scared of? What, you know, whether it's abandonment, whether it's I'll never find anyone again, whether it's I'm running out of time, whether it's what is that thing? What is that thought, that story I'm telling myself that makes it so frightening to lose someone that I will continue to invest energy in a situation where the effort is not equal.

Yeah, absolutely. And Yeah, that's the key. And it's weird when people even go from migrating to the app to suddenly they're texting a person that they can suddenly have this person was no one in their lives and now they're texting and that person maybe canceled the date. It's like, oh, they canceled the date. I feel so horrible now. Why did- why- what happened? Like, what did I- what did I do? It's like, just because that person is now on your phone, on WhatsApp, or you're texting them, It's become real and there's become like, you know, they flaked on you and it means something else. Whereas, you know, if you if they just didn't swipe you on the app, it wouldn't have meant something. And that's the key is to change the meaning you ascribe to these situations or reduce the significance with which you are imbuing these situations. Because that's the thing. It makes it so much harder to recover from everything. If you see everything as such a you know, big rejection of you as a person. And, you know, that that comes from so much of our need to be validated and our need to, you know, feel like whatever our identity, we are attractive. On an incidental note, as an, there was a study that said that more than half of people would cancel a date due to poor body image.

Oh, wow.

And this was amongst, like, young people, but it was talking about You know, a little study that was done by Bumble, but the, you know, especially post-COVID, a lot of young people felt like they would cancel a date because of like an insecurity about their body. So even that, that's even like rejecting yourself before you've even gone on the date. It's like because I might not live up to something or this person's better than me and if I don't live up to what they are, then I'm gonna be a disappointment.

It's so fascinating because if you take that example, it's almost certainly not going to be something they notice. You know, like, I mean, literally last night I was having dinner with a friend and he said to me, you know, he was like, oh, you're, you know, I saw a couple of pictures of you from your tour on your Instagram. He said, do you always get in shape for your tour. And I said, well, if I'm going touring, I try and, you know, in the couple of months running up to it, I start taking my training a bit more seriously and I'm going to be on stage. If, if I feel good on stage, it's one less thing to think about.

Right.

It's, I, I can truly just focus on. And so I understand what people feel on a date because I feel it when I go on stage. I think to myself, if I'm, if I'm not trying to, like, hold in my gut while I talk, then it's one less thing for me to have to think about. I can then just go and focus on doing a great job. And I said, but Nat right now, I'm like, I'm in okay shape, but I'm not as kind of lean as I normally am. And he looked at me and he was like, I've never seen you looking any different.

Right.

He's like, you,'ve literally never looked any different. to me on any of the times I've seen you. And that just sums it up, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

We spend so much time measuring what for most of us is a 10 or 20% fluctuation in either direction and thinking that everyone is noticing that fluctuation. And the truth is most people genuinely, not least of which, a person you're meeting for a date, they are definitely not noticing.

Yeah.

And yet it's so on our mind. And the great tragedy of it is that what's really gonna have an impact on that date is not our body difference there. That's, you know, I'm not, you know, I get There's body difference and there's body difference. Like for some of us, when we are truly like a world away from being in shape and that is massively impacting our self-esteem and the way we feel and all of that, then that can be a real thing. But when it gets, and that's, but then it becomes not a reason not to date, but it just becomes a path you put yourself on to be healthier. But if we're putting ourselves under a microscope, over what we see as a fluctuation in our body that's not that great, but we're canceling a date because of it. We are missing the point, which is that the thing that is going to be most attractive about us is how we carry ourselves, is the energy that we put across. And the most unattractive thing will be all of the ways that we are self-conscious and doubt ourselves and think that we're not good enough. It will not be your body.

Yeah.

The most unattractive thing will be how much you doubt your own worth.

I use my past as a way to remind myself it's quite irrational. If I, you know, start thinking of a small fluctuation in my body or weight or something, and then I realize like a few years ago or maybe five years ago, whatever, I was in much less good shape, and I still had, like, a lovely girlfriend. I was day, you know, I could date. I was having a good time. And it's like, well, I look back then, and I wasn't. It wasn't hindering my love life, you know what I mean?

But.

But now I would consider, like, oh, I was out of shape then. I was in bad shape. But it's like I had a girlfriend. I was, like, in love, having a great time, like. And, yeah, it's just you. You suddenly. In your head, it's like this thing that could hold you back, but it didn't really.

And we project that onto, you know, when whatever our insecurity is or our kind of paradigm is for how attraction works, we project onto other people. So then we see a celebrity couple and one of them is, you know, statuesque and in shape and whatever, and the other one is not, and we go, Well, how did they get them? You know, how did the one who's out of shape get that person when that other person is so much hotter and whatever? And what's funny is we're not describing the dynamic in their relationship at that point. They don't have that dynamic, which is why they're together. Yeah. And, but we're projecting our fear onto that relationship.

Right.

That I believe that because I don't look a certain way, I can't attract someone. who looks like that. And that's why we're not in that relationship and that other person is, because that's not their excuse. That's not what they, that's not defining their worth, their value. And it's a really, you know, I've thought a lot about this, even within a relationship. If you look at what our anxieties and insecurities about ourselves do, is they make us look for immense amounts of reassurance wherever we can get it. You know, so we may get it by posting a hot picture on Instagram and trying to get reassurance that way. Or we may get it by asking our partner to reassure us, you know, can you make me feel good? Can you, you know, how do you feel about me? Do you still feel the same? We look for that reassurance. And, you know, I heard Seth Godin say, I think, in a writing context, but he talked about how reassurance doesn't last. And that's such an important thing to remember, is that no one's reassurance is gonna change the game for us, really, 'cause it doesn't last. It's, you get reassured at 11 in the morning, and then you need reassuring again at three in the afternoon. So, and the part that's gonna, the part that hurts us is not, you know, the thing that we're insecure about is probably not defining your relationship. But the need for constant reassurance might be. And that then is such a crazy irony. that it's not the thing we're worried about that's creating an obstacle between two people or that's hurting two people. It's the need for constant reassurance that we're not giving to ourselves or we're not realizing that none of it even, you know, what is ultimately gonna define our value more than anything? is how we feel about ourselves, is the certainty that we decide to have. And it seems such a abstract thing, but there is a certainty that comes from being good at things, right? That's when we think of being, you know, confidence is defined as a feeling of certainty. There's a confidence and a certainty that comes from being good at things. am confident on stage, partly because I am good at it, because I've done a lot of hours of practice there. So that competence breeds confidence.

But.

That firstly, competence isn't a guarantee of confidence.

Right.

I I've had moments of Moments of doubt where I see so many people making content these days, so many people making videos and making podcasts. The year of COVID was like the year of everyone who didn't have a podcast suddenly creating a podcast. And there's almost, like for all of us, there's so much content now that we've got kind of overeat to the point of being sick and just being like, I can't, you know, it's too much. It's, we're saturated. And as a Creator, I think that you can draw an analogy between this and dating. You know, as a Creator, it can do that same thing where you think, why bother? Like, why make it? Why make this podcast? It's just another two people talking. All right, you and me, it's just another two voices in the world.

Oh, I don't want that to be a review on iTunes.

You don't want that to be our slogan. Just another two voices. By the way, that could be the slogan for every podcast. Here, another fucking interview. You know the score. Two people talking about their backstory.

Someone's got a bird.

Tune the fuck in. Every time Steve a podcast starts with, and.

I know what you're gonna say, my hottest interview tip, don't even ask them where they were born. No one cares.

Oh, well, there's that.

Don't ask where they were born or where they grew up. No one cares at all. Just jump straight to what they're doing.

I often feel like that about people's backstory, though.

Well, yeah, that's what I mean. Like, the whole backstory, the origin.

Yeah, but the origin is just. Born is very factual. But, you know, when someone says, like, how did you. So where did it all begin? When everyone. When someone says that in an interview, I just go, oh, Jesus. Like, I just want to fast forward half an hour to the point where someone actually starts giving advice or makes a point and. I, and I shouldn't say that because I'm doing a very big podcast today. I'm on a very major podcast and I think it's quite likely that it's gonna start with. So where did it all begin for you? And I'll just have to say just let's fast forward this part. If you want to get to the point where I'm actually making a point, skip 15 minutes from now. But my point is that in a world of endless content, It can leave you feeling like even though, like I've been broadcasting in some context, you know, with a radio, TV, on stage for 15 years, I feel competent. And yet even then, if you're not careful, you cannot feel confident because you can say, well, why me? like, what do I have to bring in a world where so many people are talking? And I think that that can be true in dating as well. You can feel competent at certain things, at certain parts of relationships. You can feel like you have a good job. You can feel like you're a good person. You can feel like you, you know, you're nice looking and, and still have a sense of, I just don't feel confident because I'm, I'm looking at everybody else and going, well, There's so many of people who are great like me, even if you feel great. And therefore, what am I adding?

And.

I believe that there's, I suppose, two answers to that question. There's probably more, but these are the two that strike me immediately. One is that, and this is a weird, again, this is abstract, but it just happens to be true. Just being certain, just deciding I'm gonna be certain of my value, immediately puts you on a different level to most other people who don't do that.

Yeah, I agree.

Just deciding I have value and I'm gonna respect that value for no other reason than just saying, you don't have to have a logical reason for it other than just, I want the best for myself.

Literally, you can decide I, again, you have to get to this stage internally, but you can decide, I'm a cool person to be around. That's a decision.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm a cool person to be around. Or I, I just, I, even if other people don't like being around me, I get me and I, and I like me.

Absolutely.

You know, because you're not going to be at every party. You're not going to feel called by, as defined by other people's perception, because some people, you're going to go to a party and it's not going to be your party. It's not going to be your crowd. You're going to go on dates and it's not to be your person, and that person's not going to be impressed by you, and they're not going to find you charming and attractive and funny and all of that. And it's not going to be your crowd, and you can't define yourself in relation to that. But what you can say is, I've gotten close enough to me that I actually, there's things that I like about me, there's things that I like myself. And that certainty is really valuable. That certainty is going to elevate you all on its own. So that's one of the things that can make you feel confident. And the other thing is to say, going back to what I just said, somewhere is my audience. I don't have to attract everybody else's audience. Whether I'm on a dating app and thinking, God, there's so much competition here, how would I ever compete? Or whether you're in business and you're thinking, or making content and you're thinking, how can I ever compete with all of the other creators out there? How am I ever gonna capture their audience when what they do is they do so well? That's, to me, just the wrong way of looking at it. That you will always feel insecure by comparison because there'll always be someone who's just got some wild ability that you don't have. you know, there's, you know, I think I'm a wonderful public speaker, but then I look at like Bo Burnham and the guy can just make songs. I'm like, well, I can't do that. Like, that's just, that's not my ability. I can't do that. So there's no point comparing myself there, 'cause there's just an ability, a skill set that he's built that I haven't built, but it doesn't matter. because I'm not trying to get Bo Burnham's audience. I'm trying to get my audience. Some of them might be the same people. They might like us both for different reasons or the same deeper reason.

Right?

Oh, they're both authentic people. They both bring a real rawness to their work or whatever. Now, all of a sudden, it's not about competing on ability. It's about com. It's about the fact that you have an energy that shines just deeper than. Than abilities, but. It's just deciding I have my audience out there and that's who I ultimately who I want to find. Not I need to be attractive to everybody. And if we can get into the habit of saying, it's okay if someone likes me, they just might not be my audience. That's okay. That's very, very freeing. Because otherwise, I'm going to go on TV the next time I go on TV and if someone says, this guy, blah, blah, you know, I can't stand this guy, whatever. It's like, okay, not my audience. It's, it, that's perfectly okay. There's tons of people that I think are absolute, like, just the, some of the most gifted, amazing, charming, talented people in this world. And then you hear someone go, yeah, I don't like them. And you go, well, if that's the case, then why, what is it I am worried about? what I'm trying to have the whole world as my audience. Even if you're trying to have 99% of the world as your audience, there's a kind of an arrogance to that.

Yeah.

You don't need everyone or even the majority of people to be your audience. You need a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of people to be your audience. And that's where confidence can come from, is that I like me. and I have a sense of certainty that I have that my audience is out there. And for it doesn't actually matter how many people don't like me. What matters is I find the people that I can connect with that don't require me to be something other than myself in order to connect with them.

Look for the people who dig what you're bringing already. and, and it's, it's, yeah, I, I remember when I was younger, and a lot of guys probably do this as well, like, you know, they're always trying to attract a kind of woman or a person they think is really high status or, you know, the most attractive or whatever, without ever questioning whether that person is their, as your thing, quote, audience at all. Probably a lot of the times they're like, That person doesn't get me at all. They're nothing like me. But you've built a thing in your head where their validation, their approval really matters. But you're picking the wrong audience.

By the way, if you are attracting everybody, you're a liar.

Yeah.

You're a liar. Like, and I don't mean you're lying about lots of people being attracted to you. I mean, you're lying to all of those people.

Yeah.

Because they can't all be attracted. Like they can think they're attracted to you, but they don't know you. And, you know, it's a real, I'm not saying that everyone, I can't stand the whole thing these days of basically, practically everyone's a narcissist by today's standards of what constitutes a narcissist. But it is certainly a narcissistic behavioural trait that we all have in us on some level to try so hard to get people to like you when you meet them, that you cease to be you when you meet them. You're not portraying yourself. Like Jameson, what was the thing you said to me earlier? Who was the guy you were talking about who said I was basically lying in the beginning? From Gone Girl. Oh, from Gone Girl, when like Ben Affleck's character is talking about who he portrayed himself to be in the beginning of the relationship. And, you know, he basically says, I was, you know, I was a con artist. And that, that's such an interesting idea because dating, the early stages of dating is rife. with con artists. And the con artists are us. Like, it's not just everybody else, it's us. It's us when we go. And because we're so worried that we can't compete with everybody else, because we're so worried that the person we're on a date with can have anyone they want or, or at the very least has lots of options and we're trying to stand out, it's because of that need to be liked. It's because of our desire to achieve the end goal of attracting someone into a relationship, that we go on a date and everything we do is a departure from our authentic selves. We start playing a role. We start being who they want us to be or who we think they want us to be. And in the process, we do a con job on them. We're being a con artist and we're so worried, what if I'd go on a date? How do I know if someone's lying to me? How do I know if they're being honest about themselves? All the while, we may not be being honest with this person about who we are. You know, so you start dating someone and, and, you know, you, they, they like partying. So you go to all of these parties and events and, and try and play ball, and you're like, I'm having a great time or whatever. And then, you know, the moment you're six months into the relationship, you're kind of a, like, you've hated parties all along, but you've, you've been pretending that you like all of that, and now all of a sudden, you find yourself in a situation where you're just like, no, I don't want to go. Right, right. Why is that? Because you're, you're, for a while, you wanted someone to feel like that was something you enjoyed doing. And by the way, it's not necessarily a conscious thing. It's something we all do in the early stages when we want to attract someone. But in the beginning, we can slip into that con artist mode unconsciously, and it's It's because we are trying to attract someone at any cost and even at the cost of attracting the wrong audience. And then all of a sudden, you find yourself in a relationship where you've attracted the wrong audience. But that's why it's so essential. Hopefully as we get older, we get a little more comfortable. with portraying ourselves as we really are, not portraying all of our worst qualities. That's different. That you've got to bide your time as you start to like, no one deserves to see upfront everything that's wrong with you. They deserve you like you don't go to a job interview and say all of the things wrong with you. You go to a job interview and you put your best foot forward. But you try to do it in a way that's still authentic to you, even if it's portraying the best. You're providing a highlight reel, but it's still not a different movie. It's just a good trailer from the real movie. You're not inserting clips from a different movie altogether.

Yeah.

That's kind of that happens with movies, doesn't it? Sometimes you see something in the trailer, you watch the movie, you go, that scene wasn't even in the movie. I didn't make it.

I was looking forward to that and it never came.

Well, I think we'll wrap it up there, Steve. Let us know how you felt about this one. We genuinely love hearing your feedback. Leave us a review on iTunes and tell us what you think of the podcast. We do read them. It means a lot to us and it also helps other people understand what the nature of this podcast is, which I think, Steve, it's safe to say is still sort of Even after all this time, this podcast is sort of discovering what it is. And so we also, what's the email just for people to email into?

You can email in your questions or comments to podcast@matthewhussie.com I think that what.

Would help us guys is as we kind of figure out what this podcast is, you emailing in to podcast@matthewhussie.com with what you what kinds of episodes you really like best? What are the moments you enjoy most in this podcast is really helpful to us.

Yeah.

Do you like longer episodes? Do you like shorter episodes? Do you like it when we talk about love life? Do you like it when we talk about stuff outside of your love life, like loving life and how to love life more and how to love yourself more? What do you enjoy when we talk about it? It would mean a lot to us to get that feedback. And by the way, for anyone who has not booked their phone call, we have three amazing people, Emma, Michael, and Charlotte, who spend their days speaking to people about our virtual retreat that's coming up in September from the 24th to the 26th. Assessing, if you book your call, they'll assess your goals with you. what you're trying to achieve in this next chapter of your life, what you think are the barriers to achieving that. And they'll also offer you the opportunity to come and join us in September if that's what you feel is right for you. But it's a, even if you don't end up coming to be with us in September, a lot of people tell us that just having that phone call is kind of a, almost a form of therapy and a form of of planning and realisation because when they do it, they realise more about where they want to go and what it's going to take to get there. And they come off of that call feeling a little wiser, a little more self-aware and a little more ready for the next chapter, even if they don't come and join us on the virtual retreat. But a reminder, that virtual retreat is something that you can attend from home. It's not an in-person event. So although it feels live and dynamic over three days, it's incredibly exciting. It feels like an in-person event, but people are taking it from all over the world where they are. So you do not have to travel for this event. You can do it from home or from your office, wherever you are. So if you wanna go and apply for that phone call, book your call, it's at mhvirtualretreat.com, go check it out. and hopefully you come and join us or you join us from home on the September virtual retreat, which is our big event for the year and our final big event of 2021. Come transform the second half of your year with us. Well, Stephen, thank you so much. That was a pleasure doing this with you today.

Absolute joy, as always, brother. And thank you, pickles, peaches, puddings and pears out there and We will see you on the next episode of Love Life.

See you soon, guys.

What's he saying, Matt?

So just let's leave it there today. Okay, let me just try one. You tell me. All right, well, let's leave it there today and save something, Steve, for the next episode. We hope you all come back, Stephen. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you, sir.

And we'll see you, or at least be speaking to you in the next episode. See you soon, guys.

Bye-bye.

I see the dark sites. Ookie. Whoop. Got a new wife. Shorty got a new boo.

Yeah.

Love.

Beautiful.

I'm looking for love.