3 Big Mistakes That Stop You Getting To Commitment

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NMLS 696891. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Love Life Podcast. Matthew here. I wanted to let you know before we start, on the homepage of the website is a new tool where you can enter your name, click start here, and I will give you your personalized solution to your particular Love Life Challenge. Once you hit start here, all you need to do is hit the challenge that most describes what you're going through right now, and the tool on the website will recommend the solution for your particular situation. Go to howtgetttheguy.com to try that now. I really believe assuming exclusivity is a very dangerous thing because you just don't know until you have the conversations with somebody. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm here with Jameson, our director, Steven, my co-host, and our producer, Audrey. And today we cover the biggest mistakes people make in getting to commitment. We all know those early stages. are challenging, they can be a bit messy, we don't know where we stand, we don't know what the other person wants. All we know is we're having a good time and we'd like it to go somewhere. How do we communicate that to the other person without scaring them off? What are the mistakes that we could fall into if we're not careful in those stages that could sabotage something in those precious, delicate early stages where we know it can feel like the situation is a little bit fragile, that it could go any particular way. What can we do to make the most of a promising early dating situation? To try and make it turn into a real relationship? We get into the reasons why we're afraid to define the relationship with someone. We get into the mistakes we make when we do it. And at the very end of the episode, you get a brand new free gift from me that I am extremely excited for you to learn about. So stay till the end of this episode. Don't go anywhere. I'll be revealing that at the end. Before we get into the main episode, I just want to make sure everybody knows that until August the 7th, the summer self-care special ticket is available for the virtual retreat. Now, you may have heard about the virtual retreat, maybe it's new to you, but I can tell you, if you have not been to this yet, if you've just heard me ranting about it, but you haven't actually been, then I promise you, you are missing out on the best thing we do. It is a three-day immersive coaching program that helps you make the most of yourself, your life, It helps you transform the emotions you feel on a daily basis, whether you're single or in a relationship, it doesn't matter. This program is for everybody. It's even for guys. This is an agendaed program. It's for anybody who is at a stage of their life where they look at it and they're like, I only get one life. I want to make the most of this life, not just in my love life, but in every part of my life. I want to be the best I can possibly be. And frankly, aside from just the external achievements that I want to create, which by the way will help you with on this program. I also just want to be happy. I want to be at peace. I want to feel good. I'm sick of feeling anxious. I'm sick of feeling sad or depressed. I'm sick of feeling like I'm out of control in my life or stressed. I'm sick of feeling like this big problem in my life owns me instead of me owning the problem. I want to step into my life differently and connect with my life differently. I want to build my confidence. I want to be more at peace. And you want to do that with us over a three-day process that has been developed over 15 years. That is the Virtual Retreat. And you could do it from anywhere in the world. Join us by going to mhvirtualretreat.com Like I said, the Summer Self-Care Special is only available until August the 7th. And that means $100 off the ticket price. It also means three special bonuses that you'll discover when you get to that page. MHvirtualretreat.com that ticket is only available until August 7th. Go there now, get your ticket, and now on to the episode. So we're talking today about the biggest mistakes in getting to commitment. What is it about the early stages that makes it so difficult to have the conversation about where it's going? Let's talk about that for a moment, because that is at the crux of this, right? This is a difficult conversation to have. Hey, where is this going? And it's difficult for a reason. It's difficult because we think we might come across too intense that we might suddenly seem like we're sucking the fun out of the situation. You know, we were having a romantic time. It was fun, it was exciting. And now all of a sudden, it's almost like we're worried we've become high maintenance. We're worried that we're giving away our power if we suddenly start talking about commitment or what we want because We're being honest. We're being honest about the fact that we like them enough to want it to go somewhere. So it can feel like we're giving up our power in that moment. We may not know how to have the conversation. And importantly, we're really afraid of getting an answer we don't want. And that is at the heart of all of this. If we knew, if we were guaranteed that when we said, Hey, you know, where do you see this going? Somebody else said, oh my God, I'm like having the best time with you. I want to see where this goes. I want us to actually give this a real try. That we would do it in a heartbeat, but we're not guaranteed the answer we want. And so I think for a lot of us, what we're really afraid of is that the party is going to stop when we have this conversation. because if we don't get the answer we want, we're faced with a bit of a predicament. Do I leave this person or I say leave, there's nothing to leave in that sense, but do I stop dating them? Do I stop seeing them? Or do I keep seeing them, but now it's kind of like out in the open that I'm not actually getting my needs met in the way that I want or that this isn't progressing in the way that I want. So, do I now feel like I lose some self-respect in that? Do I feel like I lose some respect from the other person in that if I just keep dating them, even though i've expressed that i'd like it to go somewhere and they said they don't want it to? Does my value go down in that situation? Is it even wise to continue? It's always easy to continue with something when we can kid ourselves that it might go somewhere, but when someone has expressly told us that they don't want more, it's harder to lie to ourselves and all we're faced with is the truth that we're actually breaking our own standards by staying. All of this is to say it's a lot easier not to talk about it. It's a lot easier to go week after week, month after month, without really having the conversation about what it is or where it is or isn't going. So, Steve, what are I know that you wrote about three specific mistakes that people make in this area. What are the three big ones?

So I think the first big mistake is assuming, and this is all assumptions. It's all about assumptions we make by default. And so one default assumption that people tend to make is assuming that doing romantic things together equals Someone doing, we've talked about love bombers in the past, Matt, we've talked about people who lavish you with gifts or just smother you with attention early on. They take you on a romantic trip and you read into that that that means this person is serious.

Okay, got it. So if they're doing things with you that feel romantic, that doesn't, that's not a sign that it's actually going anywhere. It can just be a sign that they wanted to do something romantic or they enjoy getting swept up in the moment. They enjoy being able to impress you or make you feel something, but none of those things are an actual signal for intent that they intend for it to go somewhere.

Yeah, exactly. An intent is the key there. And unfortunately, there is a personality type that gets addicted to those expressions of early romance that assumes that someone tripling down on passion early on means that this must be more serious. Because look at how passionate they are about this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, very good. Mistake number two.

Mistake number two is assuming that sex naturally leads to commitment. The key word being they're naturally leads to commitment because sex can be the precursor to commitment. There's no rule that says having sex early means that you won't end up in a relationship with this person. But assuming that just because you are regularly being physically intimate with this person, they come over a few times a week or whatever, and you sleep together, assuming that that then means there is a real Future plan here.

Yeah, well, that extends even to thinking that even before commitment, thinking that having sex with someone is going to create more of a bond is an assumption because there is no guarantee that it will create a bond for the other person. There's no guarantee that sex means the same thing to them as it does to you.

Absolutely. And that's why you have to be you know, it's fine if. If you have a standard that you're fine being physically intimate with someone because you like them and you don't necessarily expect that to go somewhere, that's fine. But if for your own protection, you know, I will get emotionally attached, I will feel like I want this to be something more because I'm sleeping with some regularly. If you know that it does behoove you to. be careful in, you know, just falling into that trap of, like, we're sleeping together and I'm just going to assume and get closer and closer to this person and assume that it's going to lead somewhere serious.

What's mistake number three?

Mistake number three is assuming that sharing emotional intimacy means he has long-term intentions. And this can, you know, this can apply to men and women. So it's not gender specific, but just because you have phone calls, long talks into the night, or you're sharing loads of deep stuff over texting or whatever, again, that people can enjoy the fact that they have someone they can actually just come home at the end of the day and talk about how work was, why they're stressed with their boss, why they're pissed, what's not going their way, what they want. People can enjoy that feeling and that comfort, the comfort traps of a relationship without necessarily meaning that, like, they exclusively have eyes for that person or just that they may still feel like, yeah, but I don't want to, like, go the full way, but I really enjoy this, you know, this, like, special friendship we have.

To me, there's something that's jumping out. which is the elephant in the room, right? You know, it's all well and good to say to people, watch out for these things and, you know, these mistakes that you make in assuming all these different things in early dating. But there's a lot of people out there who, a lot of men out there, who kind of just want the girlfriend experience. And they're quite happy to use people. They're happy to use you physically, emotionally, They're happy to love bomb you in a way of just messaging you all day long and inviting you out to things and creating this false sense of security and intimacy. Meanwhile, because they've never actually articulated the words that they are committed to you, they're always in the clear. As you have said multiple times, Matt, we have to take responsibility to protect ourselves because a lot of people if you let them, we'll just take advantage of those things. And just because your standard for how you treat people is a certain way does not mean somebody else will have the same standard as you. And you just have to be very mindful of those things.

That's the thing, right? I'm not saying someone's wrong for assuming those things mean something. And I'm not. It's not good that people do lead people on in these ways. So it's definitely me not blaming someone for assuming it means more than it does. It's like, it's just that. Until you know there's intent, until you're actually having some kind of conversation about it, or it's part of the dialogue you have, you cannot just go, you cannot just say, well, these things are happening, so I assume that we're gonna have a future together.

And more than ever, I do think it's worth pointing out here that the culture kind of creates that, it makes these assumptions work less and less over time because the culture the culture makes it easier for people to just kind of have their cake and eat it too.

Yeah, I agree.

So, so what do you do?

Just explain that for us a bit, Jameson.

So you have a you have a culture where it's just like, like you're like Audrey is saying, I think extremely well, which is the guys want to feel all of this stuff. They want to feel the intimacy, they want to have sex, they want to be close to somebody. But then they also want to not have any of the responsibility that that entails normally with investment or anything. And so they don't need to put a name on it. We don't need to put a title on it. We don't need to make it official. I can kind of just like get this experience here and experience everything else in life too at the same exact time. The culture is telling me I should do that. The culture is letting me get away with doing that.

So do you think the culture is, the culture is you think telling people to do that? In what sense? Like, are we saying that for men it's kind of portrayed as just being more cool to be able to do that?

More cool, FOMO. It's like, you know, the media too, the Don Draper, the James Bond, the just the cool, archetype cool guy can kind of get away with having both.

And also, I think women feel this enormous amount of pressure to play a perfect game of chess in order to get somebody to commit to them, which you, you know, I personally think is a kind of patriarchal view that is just taken on by Society. When it comes to women, it's almost we're the ones that have to constantly wait to be chosen, and we must wait patiently and do all the right things until somebody finally decides to commit to us. Now, that can obviously happen the other way around, but I think there is an, an absolute truth in that. and it makes it very easy for men to take their sweet time and be able to say, well, we've only been dating for a month. You know, we've only seen each other three times a week for two months. Like, I don't know yet. And it's quite hypocritical, really, because if that same person, same man, was to meet somebody who they fell head over heels with, they would be the ones who are anxiously waiting for their message. They would be the ones who are anxiously waiting to know whether this person would be interested in committing to them. But when it's the other way around and they hold all the cards, they're quite happy to waste, to not waste someone's time, but to, to take their time with it and leave them in that kind of limbo. And it's almost the on this is on the women to wait and not be too needy and not be too desperate. And that's a real thing for, for women.

I think it would be one could deduce from what you just said though, that you therefore should just not be messing around with any guy who's just not head over heels for you and that the ones who are head over heels for you will make it known. Do you think that that's the answer or do you think what would you say is the antidote to what you're saying?

I don't think that's the answer. I think it's important to go into any situation with a certain standard for yourself, a certain level of expectation of behavior you will and won't tolerate. And I think most importantly than all, if you get, if you catch a whiff of somebody somehow making you feel like you're being crazy for trying to get some answers as to whether or not this is going somewhere. You should be really wary of that because ultimately, if it has been, if enough time has elapsed, it's perfectly natural for you to want those answers. Now there's a correct way to go about it.

How much time is that? Because that's what I know people are gonna be asking, is what amount of time needs to elapse before you can have these kinds of conversations without you being the one who is being actually too intense?

I don't believe it's about time. I believe it's about how much leverage you have in that situation. Meaning, if the frequency of how much time you're spending together is escalating, and they want to go away on the weekend with you, or they want to see you more and more, or they want you to come out and meet his friends and do this. You're then in a position because they want more of your time, you're in a position to say, okay, well, I would love to do those things. However, on what terms? What am I in that case? If I am doing all these things with you, if we are speaking, as Stephen said, through the night until 3 a.m. about your troubles at work. Great, but I'm not your therapist because I'm not getting paid for it. So if I'm not your girlfriend or if I'm not someone you're at least interested in building a future with, am I just doing this pro bono? Because I, why should I? And that's obviously not the tone you should go into it with. But this is, I think the point is if somebody is demanding a lot of your time, your affection, your intimacy, you at that point have enough leverage to say, well, if you would like to continue spending this time with me. These are the terms that I would like it to be on. And I would like to know that you're interested in at least seeing where this could go, if not a full-blown relationship, that we're on the same page as to where this could go and the potential of this turning into something meaningful.

Jamieson, it's not about the year of the car, it's about the miles on the car.

Sorry, who are you comparing to cars now?

Relationships. It doesn't matter if the relationship started a year ago if you haven't put many miles on the car. But if you met someone three weeks ago and you've been having two-hour conversations every day since, and you've been on seven dates with them already, then you've actually put more miles on the car than most people who casually date over the space of three or four months. So in terms of creating leverage.

Usually.

You create leverage because there is a level of intimacy, emotional connection, this person has already seen in many ways how great you are and is starting to get a sense of the potential of this. And as you say, Audrey, is actually asking for more of you. If someone's not asking for more of you, then Leverage has not been created.

Yeah.

So having a conversation at that moment about where you What is this? Where is it going? It's like trying to revive something that's not actually living.

Trying to get pay rise at work when your bosses don't quite know who you are yet.

Exactly. Right.

You know, it's funny, I don't want to over-rely on this car analogy, but it got me thinking of when my parents had this car growing up that was just for big trips. It was like, okay, we needed to tow a boat. to like Tahoe or something. And it seemed like, oh wow, we're taking these long big trips with this car. But years later, you look at the mileage on that car, not that much. The thing that gets more mileage is the daily driver, the daily commuter, the thing that like you're consistently using, you're consistently putting a few miles on it. So that is interesting. The analogy obviously is like, oh, a big romantic gesture, a big trip, a big whatever. It might feel like you're getting some kind of like, this is the point of leverage. It's like, well, actually, maybe not. Maybe you need to use that leverage just to create more consistency.

Yes.

I feel like we've got an insight into your childhood there. It sounded so American to me. It did, didn't it?

It sounded like a road trip movie.

Summer trip to Yosemite with the family.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, Consistency is really important. If you have a conversation where is it going with someone you see once every two weeks, it's almost like a kind of, it feels like a bit of a redundant conversation, especially if you're not speaking regularly in between those dates. That seems like a kind of conversation one would be having almost with themselves because the other person isn't showing signs. It's almost like if someone's seeing you every two weeks but doesn't call you in between, you shouldn't be taking that seriously.

Yeah, yeah.

That you shouldn't be asking, where is this going? Because the answer is a resounding nowhere right now. This is not. A relationship isn't built on seeing each other every couple of weeks sporadically with very little communication in between.

And I would argue if you're in that position, you should communicate. that you would like to see them more or not at all, because they could be occupying a lot of space in your mind when actually this person's not necessarily serious about you and taking it further. So I think if you're finding yourself in a situation where consistently over time you're not, you're not seeing anything progress emotionally and they're not giving you any more of your time and you're not getting them to know on a deeper level, getting to know them, I should say, on a deeper level, then that's also a conversation and something you should be very honest with yourself about. Yes.

Either have that conversation with them or see other people.

Yeah.

But don't do neither. And that is the problem for most people, is they do neither. They put all their eggs in one basket, and they also don't have the conversation about the fact that they'd like to see someone more, which is a nice start to the conversation. It's not. Hey, I don't like that you never text me. It's not, Hey, I don't like how much we see each other. You start with, I'd like to see you more. And you see if they can meet you there. So all of this is speaking really to the danger of not having conversations. And I really believe in assuming exclusivity is a very dangerous thing because you just don't know until you know, until you have the conversations with somebody. And of course, there are right ways and wrong ways to have the conversation. And we have something very special that I mentioned at the beginning of this episode that is going to help you with that. A gift that we've created and worked very hard on. It's free, but it's something that if you are struggling to have these conversations with someone, if you want more and you don't know how to have the conversation, this is gonna help you do that. So stay tuned for that. But while we're here, let's just keep talking about this for a moment. Let me give you guys a scenario. Before we go any further, everybody, we have a membership. Did you know that? It's called the Love Life Club. And every month we do interviews with amazing people. Who did we have recently, Jamison?

We had Ed Mylett.

We had Ed Mylett.

We've had Dr. Ramani. We've had Lisa Billie.

We've got who coming up? Pop quiz. Who's coming up?

Faith Jenkins.

Judge. Judge.

Judge Faith Jenkins. Apologies.

The judge.

We have Judge Faith Jenkins. We've got lots of exciting stuff. We've got masterclasses coming up. The 27th of this month of July, we have a masterclass on how to meet people. If you're struggling to meet people in dating, that's coming up on the 27th. And the best part is you can join the membership for two weeks for free and just try it all out. Join a couple of webinars. I'll be doing one during that time. you can have the possibility of asking me your question directly. Steve will be doing one and you can literally try it for two weeks, see how you like it, and then decide whether you want to stay on. But the Love Life Club is the place where we get to actually coach people in their love lives and give them a real path. We love you being here as part of the podcast. We love being able to bring you something for free and we will continue to do that. But there is a big difference between content and coaching in the Love Life Membership. We are coaching people. We are putting them on a path. So if your love life is a priority for you right now, if your confidence is a priority for you right now, if your social life and just becoming the best, highest impact version of you is a priority to you right now, come join us in the Love Life Membership. You can sign up for a free 14-day trial at askmh.com Let me give you guys a scenario. You're seeing someone, you like them, you're having a great time with them, you've been on multiple dates, and then they say, Come, let's go on a trip together for the weekend. Or maybe seeing their means going on a trip. They want to see you, and they're like, Come visit me, and they're a long drive away, or they're a flight away. You like them, but you're not in a relationship yet. Do you go?

Oh, it depends on the scenario, because this is a point of Leverage in a way. Right. If they really want to see you and they want to. I think it's just, I just want.

To, by the way, I, I love what you're saying here, and I want to kind of codify that for people because I think it's really important. I think one of the key For anyone listening right now, God help us, there better be some people listening, Jameson. For anyone listening right now, write down that point, points of leverage, because that's a really, really valuable phrase. What it's saying is, at the point at which someone is asking for more, you know you have some leverage. If they're not asking for more, then you've lost leverage.

And more can be more of your time, more dates, more intimacy.

Exactly.

Anything. They just want more of you.

They want more of you.

In a proactive way.

And if you haven't created enough leverage, then that's not go sleep with them to create leverage, because we know that that's a poor form of leverage in most cases. But It might be that ultimately this person doesn't know you well enough to care. This person hasn't seen your best sides yet. This person isn't excited about you yet. And by the way, they may have made up their mind and decided it's not a right fit. That's okay. We've all done that in the past. But if you don't have leverage, do not waste time asking what this person is thinking or feeling or do they like me? And by the way, if you're not sure whether you have leverage, then you can at least start by reaching out to that person and checking in with them and seeing if you get a response. And then see if they then... Because of course it's easy to say, someone may say, well, maybe they're just not reaching out because they're shy or because they're kind of Playing it cool. Okay, great. Play it a little less cool.

Also, I'll see what happens. If someone's not reaching out, you don't have leverage. Full stop. Doesn't matter if they're shy or not. You know, a shy person who's too shy to text you, you can't at that point. I mean, he's not texting you. So even if you're the one reaching.

Out to them, I think, I almost think these are different scenarios from... Well, I think, no, but I think for anyone who's confused about which scenario they're in, If they're shy or if they just need a little encouragement, you giving a little more in the form of communication or you saying, hey, you should give me a call sometime this week or today. I'd love to hear your voice. You'll see results from that if it's not about you haven't created leverage and it's just about they're kind of scared to make a move that will actually yield results. if it doesn't yield results or if it only yields results for a day, then you have no leverage.

Yeah.

So, okay, so someone's asking you on a trip. That's a point of Leverage. They're asking for more.

Yeah. So. And there's obviously different scenarios to this, but, you know, if you met someone whilst you're in Italy and they live in Italy and then you went back home and then you're on FaceTime every night and they say, Come see me in Italy. I would argue you shouldn't go, okay, but are we in a relationship? Because they are just trying to get to know you better and the only way to get to know each other better is to make that trip. Do you think you should make a.

Trip for someone that you're just seeing?

Yes, because they would make a trip for you. So it's a case of your actual- How do you know they'd make a trip for you? Well, presumab- okay, fine. Assuming you've had enough conversations to know that you're wanting to get to you like each other, you want to get to know each other better, and you need to travel to each other to do so. And you know, you say, I think you can kind of tell if you're-.

Do you think the guy should make the first trip?

I don't think there's a hard and fast rule about whether the guy or the girl should make the first trip.

How do you deduce that someone would be willing to do that for you? Because it's really easy to tell someone, Come visit me. Like that requires very few calories to say to someone, you should come visit. It actually requires real investment to go and travel to see someone.

Fine, but I think you can't, I feel like we're getting in the weeds of this a little bit because I do think that there shouldn't be a rule that, you know, the guy should always travel to the girl first because it's a woman first, sorry, because How do you know? You don't know financial situations, you don't know schedules. I also think if somebody is inviting you to come stay with them for three days, that's actually quite a long time for them to be sacrificing to spend with you. Now, if you feel like you haven't built up the intimacy, for instance, to get physical in that time, that's different. You use those three days to get to know each other. You don't necessarily have to sleep together. You don't have to give the person everything on a silver platter in those three days and turn it into basically an extended booty call. But I do think if you're trying to build a long-distance relationship, there may have to be some concessions in terms of travel and seeing each other. And I think it doesn't. I don't think you can be strict on who goes there first.

I still think it's far, far easier to tell someone to come visit you for the weekend. than it is to make a commitment to go visit them.

Are you supposed to just never go and visit them after you meet them? If they can't come and see you, if they have work, say they're a doctor and they work shifts and they can't get the time off, so they only have this time or they've not been vaccinated so they can't fly or anything. I mean, that's not necessarily applicable nowadays, but anything like that. This person cannot, for circumstances that are undefined, cannot come to you, but they want to see you.

I think that you shouldn't be too proud to be the one to make more effort if something requires it. And if you feel comfortable in the situation, if you feel like someone has, if it's just truly justifiable that it's much easier for you to go see them than the other way around. But is it then, are you covering half, are they covering half the trip? Or are you just the one paying for the flight to go see them?

You know, I think as you were speaking, I think the most important thing in that moment is to maybe, I'm actually backtracking on what I'm saying and to go back to the point you were making to communicate in that moment that for you, that's a big deal. So you're happy to go and see them. And it's not, you're going, you know, you're not at that point saying, I would like us to be exclusive or in a relationship, but you're saying, you know, I'm, I'm wary of obviously making the trip, getting all this time together and getting attached and having an amazing time and then having to leave you and feeling like, you know, what was it? What did it mean? So I just want you to know that you know, if I make that trip, it's because I want to get to know you better because I'd love to see if it could go somewhere. And I think, I actually think that's an okay conversation to have. It's an important conversation to have in many scenarios. But I do think that, yeah, it's difficult in, in those kind of long distance circumstances.

It is. But I think it highlights, I think it does highlight an issue, which is Are there areas where there is just a real asymmetry in terms of the amount of effort that is being put in? And that's one of those where it just 100% is easier for someone to say, Come here than it is for them to go there. In an ideal world, you would say, oh, you live in New York, I live in LA, let's meet in Dallas, Ohio.

You know. Is that right, Jamison? Is that in the center of America?

I'm always actually impressed with Matt's knowledge of geography. He'll drop in, like, Idaho, and it's like an example everyone's like, wow, it's not bad.

The man reads books on geography, so.

He'S well- It's true, I do. Well, but I think if you said, hey, you're over there, I'm over here, let's meet in the middle. Or I think, Audrey, as you rightly point out, you have a conversation that sets a tone that says, Look, I'm going to be honest with you. I would really like to see you. But it's for me, you know, that kind of me coming to see you is a, it's kind of an effort. like, you know, I have a lot going on in my life and I'd be taking time out and, you know, I'd be coming to you and it's not you coming to me, I'd be coming to you. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't be doing that unless it was to, as you say, genuinely explore, you know, whether there's something there. Exactly.

Between us. Yeah. And I do think the most important part of that is also setting your, if you are to go on the trip, setting your, your boundaries around what it is that you'd be happy to do in terms of getting physical, getting intimate. Yeah.

Yeah. Now.

Yeah.

You could say if you're not comfortable, you could say I'm, I'd feel more comfortable if I just rented a place, you know, if I got a place of my own.

Exactly. Yeah.

This is a chance for us to get to know each other better. You're, you're really laying out oh, I.

Want to take it slow, you know? So although this is, this is obviously the only space for us to get to know each other because we don't live in the same country. But, you know, I, I do want to take things slow, and I, I'm not, as a result, I would prefer to rent my own place so that we can get to know each other in an organic way.

Yeah. And look, for anyone listening, I, I don't want this to kind of, you know, it sounds like we're talking about advice for a long distance relationship here, which, by the way, I think this could be could be its own episode because so many people face this exact dilemma these days. But to me, this is symbolic of what of any kind of situation in early dating where you are being asked to do something that you would not do outside of the context of something that was actually leading somewhere. That exact same argument can apply to sex. Like, the entire conversation we just had could just as easily apply to sex. And this isn't something that I lightly would do. You know, it's something that for me, it means something. I am not in a place in my life where I kind of want to just, you know, jump into bed with somebody. and it be a casual thing.

Which.

Isn'T to say that we have to know everything about what this is going to be, but it does mean it's important to me that if we do this, you're open to something more. And then you get someone's answer. But all of this comes down to being willing to have certain conversations. You're probably like, You're not gonna have one conversation six weeks in where you say, are we in a relationship? It's more likely to be a series of moments where you communicate your intentions, communicate what you're looking for, communicate how to communicate what you're comfortable with and what you're not comfortable with, depending on where it's going. It's likely to be a series of those moments. But how you talk in those moments and the structure of the conversation, the language you use, these things actually matter. Because everything is, look, in dating, everything is either communicating, I'm a person to be taken seriously, or I'm a person to be taken lightly. Always. Even after sex, Saying to someone that was crazy last night is a very different thing than saying to someone, I had such a lovely time with you last night. Like, I really enjoyed spending time with you last night. That says something different. One of them says, what a fun experience. The other one says, that was meaningful. We can't control somebody else's experience. We can't control the meaning that something has for them. But we can certainly massively influence the way they interpret us, the way they perceive us, how seriously they take us, how much they respect us. The value that they place on us. We can't determine it completely, but we can absolutely have a massive influence on it.

I love that. I really love that. And I think it's so true. So, I want to go back to what we do when somebody who we've been seeing, who we are in the same country, as Says let's go on a weekend away and they're really excited to go on this weekend away with you and it's early dating. You've not put any labels on it. What do you do? I have my answer, but I'm curious to know what you guys.

Stephen, what do you think?

How long have you been seeing each other?

I suppose arbitrarily I could say you've been seeing each other six weeks to two months. or something, and you've been seeing each other regularly.

Two seasons of Ozark.

Uh, six oh, I would, I would, I think it would be totally fine to prompt the conversation then before you went away of each other. I think that would be totally within normal, normal procedure. Especially if you knew this was gonna be, if you knew this was gonna, Make you feel even more like close to them, which a trip like that would. I, yeah, I think that's an obvious leverage point too.

Sorry, can we get more clarity on what exactly a two seasons of Ozark means timeframe-wise? Is that how long it takes them to create two seasons? Is that Matthew's bingeing schedule?

I was wondering at that as I said it. I was wondering if it meant two years. or if it meant how long it takes, like two people who are enjoying Ozark to get through two seasons. I mean, it took us about nearly.

Nearly four months to finish the last season.

Yeah, but that's because we were long distance a lot of the time and we weren't allowed to watch episodes without each other.

And they did break it up, didn't they? They broke up. They fragmented still.

Anyway, sorry.

So are you, were you trying to say that it was too, is really fast or really not, not fast?

I was saying it was like, that was like sort a couple of months.

So basically what?

Watching at a rate of like, you know, two a week.

So Steve says after a couple of months, that's time to have the conversation.

I mean, you could, you could have it before that, but I'm saying, like, if that trip comes up and you haven't defined it yet, I think that's a perfect time to have that conversation and say, like, you know, if we're gonna go away together or I feel like we're getting closer, but. you know, it's a big thing for me to go away with someone. So, you know, let's, you know, I'd like to talk about, like, what we, you know, I'd like to actually talk about, like, where we, what we see each other as.

I want to just, like, I really want everyone to just hear that and understand how important that is, because that kind of. confident vulnerability of saying that's a big deal to me or that it doesn't even have to be said in terms of it that's a big deal to me, but that means something to me if I go away with someone. That's a powerful thing to say because you're telling someone what to think about you. You're actually saying that things have stakes for you. And that makes someone take you more seriously for better or worse. It might mean that they decide they don't want to go on a trip with you, but guess what? Now you know that that person was going on a trip for just a bit of fun. Now, there is the kind of chicken egg thing to be managed that we will only get someone to the point of that. leverage what we've previously called an emotional hook point, the point at which they kind of decide, oh, I'm in. I'm invested in this person. You'll only get there by putting miles on the car to use the analogy we used before. You'll only get there by having experiences with this person, but you don't want to have experiences that you'll regret. You don't want to have experiences that make you feel like you're going to be used on the other, you're going to feel used on the other side of that. So I really think about it in terms of, well, A, communicating early that you're excited about the idea of a relationship, that you're excited about finding something special, which there is no timeframe on that. You could say that on a first date. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. And when you say it, wear it lightly. You know, don't talk about it the same way you talk about an exciting career that you're a career that you're excited about. You know, it just happens to be something that's in your life, something that in your future you are excited about. That doesn't mean that you're now putting all of that intensity on the person in front of you. Be a little more matter of fact. about it, or rather, you can be emotional about it or passionate about it, but be passionate from an independent place, not a dependent place. Not where you're looking at them going, maybe it's you. Because that's when people get the vibe of, oh, this is intense. No, you talk about it with the same Independence. You would talk about an exciting career path. I'm really. I I am super excited about finding this. In my life, in my life.

Not in our life.

Certainly not in our life on the first date. But it starts from there and that sets the tone for what you're looking for and the kind of person you are and so on. That, Audrey, you've talked and we can, I think, maybe focus on another episode for this, but you've talked really well on using stories about friends and other people as a way of framing up the kind of thing that you will and won't do. So, you know, I have friends who just kind of, you know, go on dates and jump into bed with people, and I'm, you know, I I don't have a problem with that. But for me, it's, you know, it's really about getting to know someone and seeing if, if you're compatible or seeing if you see life the same way and actually getting time together.

You can do a lot of indirect communication of your standards.

Exactly.

I think that's, that's the key here.

And we should that would be a kind of fun separate episode, I think, is the indirect communication of your standards. But then it's about, okay, you're never gonna know for sure whether something is leading somewhere. You're never gonna know for sure. All you can do is invest some time and some energy in someone that is showing you respect, is showing you some consistency, in their communication. And don't give more than you're willing to lose in the arrangement. Don't do the trip if afterwards you're gonna feel used if it doesn't go anywhere. Don't have sex if afterwards you're gonna feel bad about yourself if it doesn't go anywhere. Don't date someone for six months. If at the end of six months, you're gonna feel mad and resentful when that other person turns around and said, I never wanted a relationship. Had you talked to me about it, I would have told you that. Don't give up more than you're willing to lose. And you might be willing to lose a couple of months. You might be willing to give it a go with someone that you really like who's seeing you regularly, seeing you consistently. and four weeks in or five weeks in say, okay, now I'm ready to have that conversation, but I was willing to lose a month not having that conversation.

I would argue you should be willing to lose a few weeks to a couple of months in order to see where something goes in general.

I think you have to because I know for me as a guy like that, that I would be in the camp of people that if probably after a couple of weeks, if someone had have had said to me, where is this going? That would have made me kind of back off.

Yeah. And I, you know, a point I really want us to touch on as well to, to round up this episode is, and I'd love you to speak on it, all the, all the men in the room.

But you just wanted to be noted, dear listeners, that Audrey is the one rounding up this episode. So, you know, if you wanted it to be longer, It is Audrey who's decided that this episode is getting rounded up now.

She's driving it forward, producer Audrey, working her magic. You gotta keep up. She's like, she's working you, bro.

She really is.

You've spoken on this a few times before, and I just thought it was really interesting because I think there is, not that this is not gendered, because obviously, as we know, It's never one size fits all. However, my experience of my friends and the way that they are in relationships and the way that they approach the people they're dating is never like this, which I'm about to go into, which is something you talked about. This idea that, you know, men will essentially take what you allow them to take because they can be regularly sleeping with you, investing a ton of time, as you were saying earlier, Stephen, really just talking to you till the early hours of the morning, doing all these lovely things, and actually never have a single shred of intention to take it anywhere. It's, in my experience, more unusual to find women doing that. I feel like we tend to move through people if we feel like we're not compatible because we're trying to find someone. and that obviously is also the case for a lot of men, but I just want to dive into that psychology briefly because I remember when you said it to me, I was pretty horrified that that's the way that some people operated. But I think it's a really important lesson, which is almost people, if you're still providing a service for someone, if you're still providing a value for that person, whether it be emotional, physical, the girlfriend experience, which I spoke about earlier, you know, they may not be wanting to let you go. And so it might be indistinctible as to whether or not they're willing to commit to you because they're doing all the things to keep you around with none of the intention.

But they can't do that if you're, if you have the conversation with them, right? Unless they outright lie, they can't do that to you if you're willing to have the conversation.

But is that, is that true? Is that fair? Is that a fair depiction of how Some people, I think they're right.

Well, lest we think it's only men who do this, we have an email here.

Okay.

Treasa, dear Matt, Stephen and team, I'm writing from Nairobi, Kenya, and it would take a small miracle for me to actually be part of the Love Life events. Nonetheless, I draw a lot of value from your content. I was glad when Matt acknowledged that some people's means just don't allow them to attend retreats or live events. Well, we're here for you, Teresa, here on the podcast. We're glad you're a listener. She says, the Love Life podcast is brilliant. It's insightful and relatable in a way that helps you grow by getting you to think and listen, a conversation I'd love to be part of. However, the love bombing episode missed the mark for me. Matthew tends to assume the baseline of relationships is monogamy, and I do understand that the template of his whole platform is that he helps people find and establish long lasting relationships, Not always, Theresa. I'm quite happy to help people just have some fun. I haven't got an axe to grind against people not wanting relationships, but certainly a lot of people who come to us are looking for relationships. She goes on, but unfortunately it has kind of a blind spot over issues concerning people who love differently. I will confess that I myself am a love bomber. She put in brackets Q gasp. While it is a great twist.

It's a great twist.

Steven, you didn't gasp.

That's because, why didn't you gasp, Steven? Why aren't you surprised?

Gasp, police me.

Why aren't you shocked?

Stop gaslighting, Steven.

Hey, very good.

He's back.

You said you were not doing puns anymore.

That one was just too good to pass.

It was.

Yeah.

While it is possible that the love bombers Matt described exist that way, I'd like to plead for my people who love bomb for greater love. Oh, this is interesting. Now, I know this will sound counterintuitive, but stay with me, Audrey. She didn't put Audrey, but I imagine if she's been listening all this time now, she might have wanted to. Love bombing worlds up both sides. When you overwhelm someone with love, and when you're overwhelmed with love, it creates a rush in both of you, and you both experience a shared drop of ego, such that you feel completely and inexorably connected to this person. But just because you're only doing it for a short time doesn't mean that you do not understand the maturity and commitment a long-lasting relationship would take. I argue that for some, such as myself, it means the opposite. Because I have thought about relationships, because I know what it means to be someone's support, playmate, confidant, and cheerleader, I know what it means to settle for a smaller version that lets me connect to someone, albeit temporarily. We all want to feel special, and as long as we're not stringing someone along, then everyone gets a good deal out of a brief thing. You're polyamorous until you settle for monogamy. I agree that love bombing comes from a place of insecurity, and while I work on my insecurities, I can enjoy connections with people to whom I am attracted but not committed. And with Matt's advice, anyone looking for something real can eject themselves before getting sucked in. It's like a holiday romance or friendship. You know you have a limited time to love each other, so you allow yourself as many happy moments as possible. That is from Treza in Kenya.

But what I'm wondering is, are both parties aware that this is a short-term love bombing? kind of.

I mean, I understand what Treesa is saying, you know, in that people, a lot of people probably do make that trade-off even with themselves sometimes to go for the sugar rush or the just enjoyment of something that's only going to last a couple of months because they're like, I would rather that than be lonely. Like, I would rather do this.

Agreed. But here's the thing. If we're taking a position of extreme ownership in our lives, and why wouldn't we? you can't go into your love life hoping that someone else is going to be a certain thing or that they are the kind of person that would never do that. You have to go in with your eyes open and being willing to have the conversations. Protect yourself.

Right.

That's what they say to boxers in a ring. Protect yourself at all times. You know, you're in the ring, you can get hit, so keep your guard up. That doesn't mean you don't get vulnerable. It doesn't mean that you don't. go and try. It just means don't rely on the fact that somebody else is telling you everything about their intentions. Have the conversation.

Yeah.

And that's a form of ownership. So we said in this episode we were going to do something special at the end. Steven and I created a brand new free guide that shows you exactly how to have the kind of conversations we've been talking about today. It shows you how to have them in three simple steps. And if you're someone who is seeing someone right now, but you're not getting the commitment you want naturally, and you want to have the conversation in a high value way, that is confident and that gives you the best chance of getting a positive response. This guide shows you how to do it practically. It literally hands you the conversation. We worked really hard on it. We're super proud of it. It's free and it's something you can use today. To get that guide, go to leave limbo.com. .com. we said leavelimbo.com because it's, that's what you're doing. You're leaving the no man's land of not knowing where you stand and entering the territory of a real relationship.

I really like leave limbo. When you guys told me about the, the name of it, I, I really enjoyed it.

Strong alliteration.

Yeah, it was really good. I really liked it. And also, everyone who is listening, Matthew and Stephen have both been bloody excited about this guide. They've talked about it a hell of a lot.

And we asked your opinion on it. and you read it and you went, I have no notes to add.

I was about to say exactly that and I read it and it's really, really good and you guys are gonna absolutely love it.

Yeah, it's super, it's a fun read as well. It's super readable, super practical, three steps.

And it really breaks down not just a script of the communication of how you communicate, excuse me, how you communicate in that situation, but it really gives you a step by step breakdown of all of the things you need to consider before you have that conversation. So you're just never in any doubt about what kind of state you should be in, how you should approach it, what kind of time of day, what period, any of it. It's just really, really practical.

Yeah. And it takes away the fear. So there's no fear about it.

Leave limbo.com, download the guide right now, and we will speak to you in the next next episode of Love Life.